Does anyone else start the warm up at the canter?

[dressagedevon]

If I don't start my horse out after a few walk circles, (which are hell! usually nothing but fighting) I usually have the worst rides. But if I walk maybe once or twice around then go straight to canter after only one circle he will come round and bring his back up and we can have a pleasant ride. I discovered this after countless rides of nothing but fighting with him. He is pokey and the more leg, spur or whip you use to get him going the naughtier he gets. But if I canter right away he will be forward and we can actually accomplish something. Are there any other tricks out there I could try to get him forward and round? :confused:

[Foxdale Farm]

When I lunge my stallion he goes into the canter on his own after only one or two circles at the walk. It's not a "wild" thing either or something I let him do just to get the hyper out of his system. He seems to be telling me that he is most comfortable warming up his body at the canter and after about 10 minutes or so he's much looser and much happier. It isn't until after the cantering that he will be happy settling into the trot. He was at a jumper barn for several months and they would often just launch right into the trot and the canter with barely any walking at all. In fact, the jumper trainer thought it was interesting how much dressage people make their horses walk before doing anything else. In any event, my horse got used to just going right into it and seems to be more comfortable that way. Whether or not it's correct I don't know and I am not a trainer. It just seems to work for him.

www.foxdalefarm.us

[BluewindFarm]

It all depends on the horse and what the horse needs. I know numerous horses who have a pathetic walk and a so/so trot, until after the canter. After a couple of 20 meter circles both directions, the walk and the trot are both more flowing and forward.

With my mare, it changes during the year, sometimes I have to focus on lateral work first, other times its get her moving at a trot, still yet there have been times where she is totally compliant only once we start cantering.

Listen to your horse, they'll tell you what they need.

[flshgordon]

I do this often. My 4yo really seems to loosen up after the canter. I've even had a judge write on a test that the trot improved after the canter...I thought that was a really helpful tip!

[lovemyrobin]

My daughter's gelding is warmed up by cantering after walking for a few minutes. This was our Vet's recommendation. Her gelding has a slight "hitch" in his right shoulder with a lazy behind and the canter work really helps him loosen up. His trot work (after cantering!) can be pretty spectacular for a little hunter turned dressage pony. I know I'm a beliver now...

[dressagedevon]

Thanks for all the replys. My gelding is the exact same, his trots basically sucks, he is behind the bit and pokey then once we canter, his trot is WAY better. Well it's good to know that he is not totally nuts, and nether am I. :D

[lstevenson]

I think horses who tend to have sore backs in particular seem to respond best to going right to canter in the warm up.

[ACMiller]

Sometimes I will walk around for about 5 minutes, encouraging my guy to stretch, then I pick him up and we go into a very forward reaching canter, do some circles, etc.

[glitterless]

Great thread. For some reason I've always thought that a horse must start off at the walk. It really irks me when my older, arthritic mare will not take the time to walk for 5 or 10 minutes -- she wants to begin every ride at a trot.

I still take it slow with my 7 year old. He's developed 2 splints in the past year, so I really worry about pushing him too much.

[JenEM]

I was just talking about this with a barnmate last night!

Now that I've started cantering my greenie more, and she's figuring out how to canter ;) I'm noticing that her trot is much more relaxed and she more easily uses her back and hind end after a bit of canter, even if it's not the prettiest canter. Perhaps it has to do with how the muscles of the back are used while cantering vs trotting that seems to help them warm up better?

Of course, she is a chestnut TB, so maybe she just needs to blow some steam off first :winkgrin:

[dressagediosa]

My first horse was a TB gelding that, when asked to trot first thing, would pick up this slow, 4 beat, loafy canter - we called it "happy canter". He simply couldn't trot first thing. I figured out if I sent him more forward, he loosened up enough to trot faster than if we loafed. And then we could trot and do our thing. (darling creature, deserves a special place in heaven for putting up with 14-year-old me.)

Now, I find that most of my horses warm up better in the canter. It gets their backs moving much faster than the trot. Curiously, this is more true of my advanced horses than my green beans, and CERTAINLY more true of my tighter horses. I think that if your horse is a goober if you trot first, and a gem if you canter first, the answer is clear - canter first! No rule against it.

[WB Mom]

This is a great idea. I think I will try it and see how it works. I normally can't get a good trot until after the canter. I also think it takes bigger horses (which mine is) a longer time to fully warm up. Bigger muscles=longer warm up.
When I free lunge my horse, he will normally just start cantering and then go to the trot. This certainly won't work on every horse, but if they naturally do something, then how wrong can they be?
Boy will he be suprised!:)

[freestyle2music]

This is fully depending on your horse, the best way is to start with the walk, then the trot and the canter. However some horses needs to start wit canter-circles to keep them focused on you and not on his environment.

@ DressageDiosa

Some weeks ago I watched the RD-series "In Search for the New Equestrian Star" and I noticed so many strange things (during the warm-up), for example he put the flying changes, before the canter-pirouettes
:no::confused:

Very strange, don't you think ?

[Rhiannonjk]

When my mare is feeling "Creaky" (ie, her arthritis is giving her trouble) I do a long walk warmup, and get to the canter quickly after a little bit of trotting. I was told to go straight to canter (after the long walk) but I usually forget!

[ToN Farm]

Now, I find that most of my horses warm up better in the canter. It gets their backs moving much faster than the trot. Curiously, this is more true of my advanced horses than my green beans, and CERTAINLY more true of my tighter horses. I think that if your horse is a goober if you trot first, and a gem if you canter first, the answer is clear - canter first! No rule against it.

This is true about the canter being easier on the back. I read that from several respected sources (which I will post if I can find them). True, horses with 'sore' backs benefit from canter first, but also horses with tight/stiff backs or those with maybe some arthritis in the spine. As for TB's, at the racetrack, there is no trotting before a race. They are hand walked for a long time, and then when they come on the track, they go into a 'happy' canter.

Unfortunately, I've yet to work with a trainer that agrees with starting the canter before trot.

[Eclectic Horseman]

Some horses definitely. A lot of them just don't naturally use their backs in the trot.

I was also taught to always trot first, and I was a closet canterer until I read one of Charles De Kunffy's books. (Wish I could tell you which one--maybe The Althletic Development of the Dressage Horse?) Now if anyone criticizes me, I just tell them that if he advocates it, then it must not be bad.

Here's a link about C d K for those unfamiliar...

http://www.charlesdekunffy.com/abtCdK.asp

[Drsgrider]

I have a Holsteiner cross mare. Big, fearful of everything, fretful. When I enter the arena to school, walk around once..the more I walk the more fretful she gets to the point of balking and halting, does not matter the degree of contact on the rein. But the more contact the more she freezes. She freezes, wont move. I flex her left, right. She wont move her feet. If I try to encourage her to move forward she flattens her ears, dances to the side whichever side the whip is on. She flat out refuses. If I push her she leaps, bucks, dances. The more contact I take the more she balks. So Im sure it acceptance of the bit. I have an Eggbutt snaffle with a smooth bean on the mouth piece. I have used a vet and chiroprator to check her back teeth and body. Its in her mind.
If I walk once around and then pick up canter...all is well. When she comes back to trot or walk she is a different horse. I can then take up contact, she stretches to the bit, soft and round in her back with a clear steady rhythm.
I had always been taught to walk trot canter for warm up. I am a proffesional of 28 years..teaching, judging, instructing.
This system for now works for this mare. Shes not fretful after canter, shes calm, forward, straight and happy. The canter gets her mind off the enviorment and gets her moving forward. I will continue this warm up for her as it works.

[Blaire]

It all depends on what your horse is most comfortable with. With my guy, his canter is his strongest gait -- it's the one he's most comfortable in, the one that comes easiest to him. I usually walk and trot a couple of rounds, just to be conventional! :lol: But then I go straight into my canter work with him. The canter allows him to become much more forward, flowing, and supple. If a canter warmup is what works best for your horse, then stick to it! :D

[purplnurpl]

yup!

[dressagediosa]

Some weeks ago I watched the RD-series "In Search for the New Equestrian Star" and I noticed so many strange things (during the warm-up), for example he put the flying changes, before the canter-pirouettes
:no::confused:

Very strange, don't you think ?

I didn't get to watch the series, but I think each horse has the things that he likes and is comfortable with, and things that are hard for him. We need to use the things that are easy, the horses' strengths, to help develop their weaknesses. I get to big pirouettes very early on Billy, because he likes them and is good at them and I find it easier to get him thinking "sit" and "swing" in the pirouette than on a straight line. Of course, they're not dinner-plate pirouettes, for the showring, but they work for him. My little Dutch gelding needs to leg yield for 10 minutes before you can even DREAM of touching his back; I've got client horses that have better success with the sideways stuff after they do lots of forward stuff, towards the end of the ride. More than one way to skin a cat, or work a horsie.

If the canter, in general, makes the trot better, do canter first. If the trot makes the canter better, trot. If the canter is hard in general, break up your canter work with trot work. If the horse likes the purple bell boots, use the purple bell boots. :) Whatever. If it's harmonious, and fair, and humane, and produces a good result, carpe diem.

[Mozart]

I think this is one of those "listen to the horse and stick with what works" things. My old TB eventer warmed up much much better if I got off his back and went for little hand gallop after walk portion of warm up. Then trot circles, then figure 8's that gradually got tighter.

Current horse likes a more traditional warm up.

[mp]

Interesting thread. To answer the question, it just depends.

In warmer weather, my horse can be a little pokey -- he just poops along at a walk and does his imitation of a WP jog trot. :p Asking for a canter helps energize/improve the trot and get his mind focused.

This winter, asking for the canter too soon in warm up is asking to get bucked off, even if I've longed him. He's just much tighter due to the temps and less exercise. And he can stay locked up at the trot, so we walk (nice forward walk), asking him to reach for the bit and do lateral work until he releases a little. Same thing at the trot, then canter. But sometimes we walk for 20 minutes before he releases and starts to relax.

[dressagedevon]

Well thanks again everyone, we again started out at the canter on tuesday (had off yesterday because we had a cattle drive), and it was wonderful, again. We actually got some lateral work, not great but he hasn't done it for awhile. So I will definently stick with canter warm-ups. I was taught like so many others the traditional way of warming up, walk trot then canter in both directions, and that's how my TB does it, so this kinda threw me off and I just kept thinking well do we just start out running or do we walk and loosen up first so I was a little iffy that I was doing things right.

[TBrescue]

I find if I am looking for my horse to be more forward (if he's being poky) cantering definitely helps early in the warm up. However, if he's all fired up, cantering will only lead to a rodeo if I ask too early! :eek:

[LSM1212]

I don't post much on this forum, but the title caught my eye.

My horse is also a walk/canter warm up horse. He was injured and off for a year but even before that, he prefered the canter first instead of trot.

So I walk for about 10 minutes - first on a loose rein to let him stretch, then gather him up and do circles, serpentines, changes of direction, leg yields, spirals, etc. Then we canter... 2 laps or so on a nice loose rein to let him stretch. Walk to switch directions and repeat. Walk for another minute or so.

Then I start his trot work. Then canter work. Then walk again for a few minutes. By the time I do all of this, his walk is very forward and swing'y' (probably about 20 minutes into the ride). Then some more trot work and his trot is lovely. But if you try and trot too soon... he does the WP thing and that hind hitch shows up.

It's what works for him. I don't have an issue with doing this. I actually loosen up better if we walk and canter too. We both struggle with the trot. :D

[Dressage Art]

I’m another one with a walk/canter horse (her best gait is her canter). My horse is also starts out on the stiff side and it takes time to get her back swinging. So I usually walk for 15 minutes on the long rein, then pick up the reins and do some leg yields on the walk, some walk/halt transitions, walk on the diagonal and transitions form medium walk to free walk and back to medium walk. Then I do a very slow stretchy trot just for a couple of circles or shallow, snaky serpentines to stretch/relax her back a bit. If I sent her trotting "forward" too early, she will lock her back and continue to be stiff and resistant through the most of the ride. I also use this trot to see how even she feels - I'm a bit worried now to just go right to the canter, b/c you can't really notice on canter when a horse is just slightly off. Then I pick up a very forward, stretched down canter and do lots of transitions. That takes about 15 minutes. I go back to walk and work on turn on the hunches (love them) and rein back. After that we start a real work of 2/3 level on canter for 10 minutes: work on some half pass, 10m circles, medium canter, changes. Then a walk break again and finish up with a 10 min of the sitting trot with a lateral work, medium trot and halts. As you can see majority of my riders are spend cantering or walking.

That’s on the good day. We also have our stiff days when we spend the whole ride just working on relaxing the back, stretching down and becoming more supple – in those days it’s Training Level movements for the whole ride for us. We also have lazy days, when I just feel like she doesn’t have any energy left and I play it safe and take her for a trail hack on a walk and call it a day. I’m still just praying that she will stay sound and taking it day by day.

I tried to ride her conventionally, with lots of forward trot, but she wasn’t able to stay 100% sound. Long warm up, forward canter and lots of walk breaks seems to help to keep her sounder. Draw back of a long warm up: we don't really have much time left to work on actual movements. Another draw back that she doesn’t look supple and animated from the get go, but I have to remind myself to be patient, not push her, and give the time for a proper warm up that she needs. With proper warm up she looks like 2 different horses at the beginning and at the end of the ride (at the end is much better).

[Dressage Art]

... I read that from several respected sources (which I will post if I can find them).
you better ;)

[ToN Farm]

Dressage Art:
Here's one resource I found. This pertains to horses with back problems.

Be diligent about warming up; in sport horses, start at the walk, then progress to the canter before the trot. During the canter, the vertebral column goes through just one flexion/extension cycle per stride, while at the trot, the vertebral column experiences two cycles per stride.
The above came from:
http://www.austinequine.com/article01.html

I've spent the last couple several months researching back problems, so I have many links and articles.

[Eireamon]

I'll put my hand up as another that has a canter regime for a horse. It really is an individual thing. My ISH is pokey until hes had a canter. My warmup is a walk up our driveway and back (10 mins) then into the arena and a canter in two point. Hes then ready to work.

If I did the same with his half brother I would blow his pea brain. He has to go lots of walk and some lateral work before I can even get him to relax his back at all. If I start to trot before I have done some lateral he will have stiff back and locked jaw.

Every horse is an individual.

[XTAC]

This has been a timely and informative thread for me. I have a third level mare who takes some time to get to really use her back. Last night I walked about 15 minutes, then went right to canter. The difference was amazing. She loosened up much faster, seemed happier and my warmup was much more effective overall. I got some of the nicest collected work I have ever ridden on her last night, despite really cold temps. I might well be a canter warmup convert.

[cheekyhorse]

interesting thread. Coming from a hunter/jumper start myself then embarking on dressage after, I was surprised myself how many dressage riders walk and walk and walk before they start to trot and trot and trot and THEN canter! I walk one lap around and get right into a forward canter for my warmup on most of my horses. (especially the stallion as he tends to want to be behind the leg) I find it gets them thinking forward and most horses are more comfortable in canter than in trot. Even when I lunge my stallion, he pops right into canter immediatley, I feel it shows where they are most comfortable warming up in what gait they prefer on the lunge.
But mostly I canter first to get them thinking forward.

[Bugs-n-Frodo]

I think Frodo's trot improves after some cantering. I warm up with plenty of walk, then trot then canter because canter is his least developed gait right now and I want to establish rhythm and balance first. However, I longe him first many days if he is particularly UP, on those days, often we canter first because he has to get his whirly-doos out. :lol: Bugs used to warm-up at the canter first everyday and now that she is retired and arthritic, when I ride, ALL we do is walk and canter, trot is too uncomfortable for her. If she offers a canter, I let her. It helps her so much.

[Dressage Art]

I've spent the last couple several months researching back problems, so I have many links and articles.
Would you mind sharing what else you found about the back? My horse is very tight in the back, so I'm quite interested in that subject.

[quietann]

The one I'm riding these days (I don't own him) is a middle-aged Canadian WB who has his stiff and sore moments, especially during the winter. He's a lower-level eventer, but always does best at dressage when he competes. He starts with 5 to 10 minutes of W-T-C, in that order and in both directions, on a very loose rein. His owner has started adding a few very small jumps (no higher than 2 feet, and usually 12 to 15 inch crossrails) after that, because it helps him soften a lot. She's had him for years and only figured this out recently. It makes it much easier to collect him and get him moving through his back. The way we have it set up right now is that there is a jump that can be incorporated into a 20 m circle but the circle can also be shifted away and not have the jump in it. He is definitely one of those horses that does not do a nice (collected, on the bit) walk until he has a nice canter and nice trot going.

[CosMonster]

For my old horse who does have arthritis in his spine as well as a plethora of other ailments, I start out at a walk on a loose rein until he feels pretty loose, then we'll go into a nice forward canter, usually with me off his back in a two-point (or the closest equivalent I can get in a dressage saddle :)).

My mare I start out at a trot because she's really uncomfortable with the canter still and she's a terror if we start at the walk. If we go right into the trot she relaxes and moves forward nicely.

My young gelding it depends on the day. We usually do a few minutes of exercises at the walk designed to get him listening to me and thinking, "Ok, work time!", then if he's relaxed we'll go right into the canter because he does usually do better for the rest of the session if we do. However, if he's a little ball of energy just waiting to explode, we do transitions and trot work before cantering. When he's that wound up he thinks canter=playtime and then the rest of our ride is spent trying to remind him this is dressage not rodeo. :D

I've worked with a lot of horses and usually have a different warmup for each, as they all do better with different routines at different times in their lives, IME.

[EvelynJK]

I love this thread! What a great discussion. One horse I ride benefits from canter first. He is 19. With him being so fit and responsive (we're at an indoor for the winter months and he's getting ridden a lot) we don't do the canter right away. I do still notice marked improvement in the trot after canter. Much more swing! Another horse I am working with gets warmed up on the lunge line. He's 18, arthritic, and has been out of work for about 6 months. If we do some canter work on the lunge, I definitely find that it allows him to use him back and his arthritic hind end more. The key for him to make the canter warmup worthwhile is to make sure it is FORWARD. He's not as "Go GO GOOO! What's NEXT?" as the other horse I ride. Two very different rides, but the canter warmup works for both!

[shamrocker]

I too have been enjoying this thread, and since we are in the middle of winter up here in New England...even better!

We just very recently brought up a former Advanced Level event horse for my daughter as a Schoolmaster at the lower levels. This horse can look funky at the trot particularly to the right if he is not really warmed up. We are warming him up with some walk...today took a nice walk up a good conditioning hill, it was actually warm enough and not too icy, and then I had my daughter canter quite a bit and really open up as best she could in the indoor! What a difference...not one funky step today. We did just inject his hocks last week and he seems to be improving daily from that....he really needed it. From what I understand, it's never been done to him. Pretty unusual for a horse that's done the high levels like he has, so he is a "clean slate", just wish someone had intervened a little earlier on his joint maintenance.

[slc2]

Canter is a very good warmup for many many horses.

cheekyhorse, I don't think all dressage riders 'walk and walk and walk and walk'. I think ideas about warmup are totally different between less and more experienced riders, where you usually see a more active warmup.

[szipi]

I had a young horse once who took a good 45-50 minutes to nicely warm up before i could get any sort of decent dressage work out of him. he was somewhat stiff and very inattentive until he really warmed up. Until one day, out of frustration, I just started jumping him over little fences early in the warmup. The horse totally changed, became relaxed, supple and very much on the aids....so from that time on my warmup consisted of some cavaletti and jumping work (in a dressage saddle!). www.prairiepinesfarm.com

[cheekyhorse]

Canter is a very good warmup for many many horses.

cheekyhorse, I don't think all dressage riders 'walk and walk and walk and walk'. I think ideas about warmup are totally different between less and more experienced riders, where you usually see a more active warmup.

uh, I never said that ALL of them do. I just noticed that ALOT of people around here seem to walk alot before going into active warmup. Experienced or not experienced, I've seen alot of them doing that, not that they ALL do. I dunno, maybe it's a trend around here or something...LOL!

[JRG]

There are quite a few masters that advocate the walk for connection and lateral flexibility no matter what your skill level is. Walter Zettle comes to mind in his book Dressage in Harmony.

I am a proponate of the walk and I do what I am going to do at the walk first, including but not limited to side pass and walk pirouette. Once I have the connection and foward, then it is on to the canter. It works well for us.