Which registry to use (KWPN or AHS)?

[JennNC]

Hi, all. I have never posted in this forum but find myself reading it more and more now that I have a pregnant mare again. I am not a big time breeder, that's for sure. This is my fourth breeding experience. In the past, I bred Hanoverians and there was no question as to how I should register the foal. This time, I have bred a Hanoverian mare to a dutch warmblood (Lingh!). This stallion is approved by the AHS as well. At first, I decided to just go with the Hano registry because the inspection sight is nearby and I was already a member of the AHS, etc.

Now I am wondering...is it important that this foal be registered KWPN as well? Do you think it matters? I guess I still have time to pay the fees and get it done, but I would rather not spend the money if it isn't that necessary. The only reason I even consider it is if one would expect a Lingh foal to be registered Dutch. Do you think the registry has any effect on the horse's value down the road?

Thanks in advance for your advice/opinions.
Jennifer

[risingstarfarm]

It sounds like you are asking if you should register AHS and KWPN? You can only register the foal with ONE registry. I would recommend staying with the registry that you have worked with in the past - esp. if your mare is already approved.

[eqsiu]

The value difference between AHS and KWPN is really non existent. THey are both well respected registries, so I would go with the most convenient one for you (sounds like AHS).

[Oakstable]

I'd stay with AHS for that baby. It's a great registry. My only Hano mare is now 27. Wish I had a daughter.

[Fairview Horse Center]

You can only go with one registry, but personally, I would go Dutch. I believe they give more options down the road. You also don't have to inspect, so if for some reason, the the foal is not feeling well, something comes up, and you can't make the trip, etc. you can just send the paperwork in.

[DownYonder]

It is probably six of one, half-dozen of another, but if AHS has an inspection near you every year, that might be your better option. The Dutch don't go to every location every year, so that could complicate things for you.

Also - Fairview, I believe that AHS also doesn't require foal inspections. Once the mare is inspected, the foal can be registered through the mail - someone please correct me if I'm wrong.

[ahf]

someone please correct me if I'm wrong.

No correction necessary DY. You have it right. Once the mare is graded into the marebooks, no one needs to go anywhere again. It's DNA testing and paperwork.

[Fairview Horse Center]

That is good to know. I still think the Dutch gives more options though. With the Dutch, you can breed to any other European Registry Approved stallion and get Dutch papers on the foal.

[ahf]

And after the most recent rules change in December 07, you can breed to any VhW approved non-Hanoverian stallion and get papers.

Quite frankly, if the VhW has not approved the stallion - then perhaps there is a reason, and the mare-owner needs to look at the cross more closely.

If the OP had a Dutch mare, and was considering breeding to a HAN stallion approved Dutch, then my answer would be go Dutch. For the simple reason that she'd have to present her mare again to the AHS, become a member of yet another registry.

But the opposite is true - so my suggestion is to stay with the AHS.

[Fairview Horse Center]

The Dutch also offers options for breeding to TB stallions. If in the future, the foal (filly) owner decided to breed to a nice Hunter type TB stallion, they could do that and get Dutch Register B papers. THAT horse (Register B papered), if a filly would still be able to be bred to a Dutch Approved stallion and the foal would get full Foalbook papers.

Unless the AHS rules are changed, that same breeding to a non-approved TB would only give a CP and no options for any future generations for breeding.

The Dutch will also upgrade if that TB stallion is approved years later. Not sure how the German registries handle that.

If the mare is Approved Hanoverian, she does not need to be inspected with the Dutch to get Dutch papers on the foal. It is just paperwork and DNA.

[JennNC]

Thanks for the input. I didn't realize that I could only go with one registry. I thought the foal could perhaps be "double registered'. My ignorance is showing!

[Black Forest]

The Dutch also offers options for breeding to TB stallions. If in the future, the foal (filly) owner decided to breed to a nice Hunter type TB stallion, they could do that and get Dutch Register B papers. THAT horse (Register B papered), if a filly would still be able to be bred to a Dutch Approved stallion and the foal would get full Foalbook papers.

Unless the AHS rules are changed, that same breeding to a non-approved TB would only give a CP and no options for any future generations for breeding.


Register B papers ARE basically the dutch equivalent of a CoP though, and are not considered full breeding papers, - you can get Register B papers for a foal not just by a non approved TB stallion but unapproved stallions full stop. Register B papers are a means to an end but too many people had very rude awakenings when they bought "KWPN Dutch WB" foals and raised them with a view of maybe one day putting them forward for approval just to find that they would not be accepted!

Register B is there to fulfil the european law that a foal has to be issued with a passport with the breeding entered if applicable, and is often (ab)-used to get horses in "through the back-door" or to sell horses by unapproved stallions, not just in Holland but elsewhere too.

It is NOT relevant really in a sporthorse - I was told the gelding "Oki-Dokey" who is one of the most successful jumpers on the circuit at the moment is a "Register B" KWPN horse - just be aware that when breeding for the next generation and the option of maybe not staying with the KWPN (or a buyer not wanting to stay with the KWPN) then Register B papers are a two edged sword, they are an opportunity to use blood that is not approved, but also they ARE "just" a CoP by all but name

[Renae]

Register B papers ARE basically the dutch equivalent of a CoP though, and are not considered full breeding papers, - you can get Register B papers for a foal not just by a non approved TB stallion but unapproved stallions full stop. Register B papers are a means to an end but too many people had very rude awakenings when they bought "KWPN Dutch WB" foals and raised them with a view of maybe one day putting them forward for approval just to find that they would not be accepted!

Register B is there to fulfil the european law that a foal has to be issued with a passport with the breeding entered if applicable, and is often (ab)-used to get horses in "through the back-door" or to sell horses by unapproved stallions, not just in Holland but elsewhere too.

It is NOT relevant really in a sporthorse - I was told the gelding "Oki-Dokey" who is one of the most successful jumpers on the circuit at the moment is a "Register B" KWPN horse - just be aware that when breeding for the next generation and the option of maybe not staying with the KWPN (or a buyer not wanting to stay with the KWPN) then Register B papers are a two edged sword, they are an opportunity to use blood that is not approved, but also they ARE "just" a CoP by all but name


This is not really correct. The KWPN and KWPN-NA have both Register B and Certificate of Pedigree. Register B fillies bred to the correct stallions can have regular foalbook foals. Certifcate of pedigree fillies can not be used for KWPN breeding. Register B and Certifcate of Pedigree are NOT the same thing. Here are the breeding possibilities in North America http://www.nawpn.org/booksdesignations.htm

As you can see only TB or Erkend studbook stallions can sire Reg B horses, all other stallions (drafts, Freisians, etc.) will cire CoP horses.

[Fairview Horse Center]

Renae is correct. Register B is like an entry level to the breeding books. It gives Dutch breeders the option to use a stallion that may fit their purpose.