First time showing in Hunter Breeding...need rule help regarding whips

[gillenwaterfarm]

This is a cross post from the Hunter board, who told me to ask here...

I'm planning on taking my yearling colt to get some show experience in the Hunter breeding classes offered in conjunction with the Pensacola show next weekend. He is schooled in-hand and ready to show on the triangle. He isn't a "hunter", and I'm not after ribbons, I'm looking to give him a positive experience since it's so close to home.

I've shown dressage/sport horse in hand as well as showmanship/halter classes, so am familiar with presenting a horse, but also know there are differences for hunter classes.

Things I know...

1) Hunters do not show on a triangle. Is the presentation and ring work similar to halter or showmanship classes? Is it a free for all when entering, or do I wait to be pointed at by the gate person? Do I present him square in front, and offset behind? Or like a sporthorse, offset all around? I do know I'm to ask him to stretch out and down towards my hand.

2) Yearlings need to be in a bridle. Does it matter what kind of bit? Can it be a chiffney? Do I have to attach the reins to the bit, and show off the bit, or can I show him off the cavesson? Will it matter that it's an "eventing" bridle that has the flash taken off?

He is steel grey, and I was planning on wearing navy slacks and a light blue sweater. Do I need to worry about a blazer?

Can I carry a whip (dressage length)?

Any advice is welcome, and thanks in advance.

[flyinghorse]

I just took my two year old filly to her first HB show, and I had all the same questions. The horses were shown square in front, off-set behind. I wore a white shirt and khaki pants, the other handlers were wearing anything from britches, boots, and sweaters to navy pants and vests. Everyone, myself included, carried a crop or riding bat. We stood up in a straight line while the judge walked around and checked conformation, then we one by one, and still in line, trotted a straight line past the judge. I had no idea what to expect, but did a lot of searching on Google to find some videos on You tube. Not many of them out there, and very little info available on those shows!

On the bright side, my filly was very well behaved. It was her fist time off the farm. She was Reserve Champion Young Horse, and acted like an old pro. A good experience all the way around. I have a photo posted of her on the Home page of my web site. Her name is Bella Notte, and she is by Flemmingh, out of a Dederick mare.

www.emeraldspringequestrian.com

[gillenwaterfarm]

No, but you can carry a hunter length bat (18 inches or so) and let him chew on that in the line up.

Is this a rule, or a fashion thing? I'd have to buy a shorter one, something I'd prefer not to do.

[ljshorses]

I just took my two year old filly to her first HB show, and I had all the same questions. The horses were shown square in front, off-set behind. I wore a white shirt and khaki pants, the other handlers were wearing anything from britches, boots, and sweaters to navy pants and vests. Everyone, myself included, carried a crop or riding bat. We stood up in a straight line while the judge walked around and checked conformation, then we one by one, and still in line, trotted a straight line past the judge. I had no idea what to expect, but did a lot of searching on Google to find some videos on You tube. Not many of them out there, and very little info available on those shows!

On the bright side, my filly was very well behaved. It was her fist time off the farm. She was Reserve Champion Young Horse, and acted like an old pro. A good experience all the way around. I have a photo posted of her on the Home page of my web site. Her name is Bella Notte, and she is by Flemmingh, out of a Dederick mare.

www.emeraldspringequestrian.com

I'm planning on showing hunter in-hand for the first time this year as well. Does it matter which hind foot is offset? Should their left hind leg be more forward than the right? Oh and I saw a lot of people wearing hats. Mainly baseball type but some women wore dressy floppy types too.

[LivviesMom]

No, the whip must not exceed that length. Mine is 30 cm(I'm in Canada) with a nice thick end on it.. I use it to encourage her to stretch for it. If shes antsy I let her chew on it a bit to keep her occupied.You don't have to use one but there is a limit to the length.. I think I paid $10 for mine. Occasioa

You can use a d-ring or full cheek. Reins or newmarket shank. but it must be attached to the bit.

Your slacks and sweater should be just fine and sounds like it will be a nice contrast to show off your horse..

You should all walk in.. you will be asked to line up and then trot individually..

Good Luck!

[LivviesMom]

I'm planning on showing hunter in-hand for the first time this year as well. Does it matter which hind foot is offset? Should their left hind leg be more forward than the right? Oh and I saw a lot of people wearing hats. Mainly baseball type but some women wore dressy floppy types too.

Don't think it matters which hind is offset really. I don't fuss and try to get the absolute perfect stance.. Although she stands much better.. my suggestion would be to walk them into it.. most horses will stand properly naturally.. Once shes in and standing well..I don't fuss with her..

[DMK]

Flying Horse - just to set you on theright path ;) your horse was RBYH - Reserve Best Young Horse (the winnner was Best Young Horse) - it's an odd thing, but when showing over fences, division titles are CH or R Ch, but on the line it's BYH and RBYH. ;)

If you don't have a hunter bat, and don't want to buy one, I would just go without one versus using a dressage whip. I'm not sure if there is a rule relating to length in the breeding, but there are in other classes, so better safe than sorry, in case the judge is just as clueless as I am about the actual rule (very likely). I've managed to forget mine as often as I remember it, and it hasn't hurt me yet.

There is no rule about which leg should be set further back, but if your horse has a short or steep hip, it will look smoother from the side with the leg set back. Of course that will probably make his back look longer as well, so pick your poison.

Usually I am just so grateful to get both front legs square, all four more or less facing in the proper direction, one leg back, but not too far back and a head and neck position that is flattering and appropriate, all assembled just in time for the judge to walk by (and held in place while they are there!) that I am less than focused on which leg is back. If you get more sophisticated than that with a baby, my hat's off to you. :D

Also, please remember that in hunter breeding you want a nice quiet relaxed trot, hopefully on a loose rein - nothing like the speed and energy as you would show on the triangle. I generally slowly move them up from a walk to a trot and just try to ease into a relaxed trot, keeping my pace with them as best as possible so I don't pull on the head and make it look like I am being drug by the baby (or breaking a 4 minute mile).

Just stay away from the floppy hat unless you are sure they stay on without extra assistance.

[LivviesMom]

Usually I am just so grateful to get both front legs square, all four more or less facing in the proper direction, one leg back, but not too far back and a head and neck position that is flattering and appropriate, all assembled just in time for the judge to walk by (and held in place while they are there!) that I am less than focused on which leg is back. If you get more sophisticated than that with a baby, my hat's off to you. :D

Just stay away from the floppy hat unless you are sure they stay on without extra assistance.


:lol: that is sooo true! I'm happy if she stands without looking like a knob for the time the judge looks at her.. she had a habit of standing with a turned out leg.. any other time she stands perfectly fine .. go figure!

[gillenwaterfarm]

I'm not sure if there is a rule relating to length in the breeding, but there are in other classes, so better safe than sorry, in case the judge is just as clueless as I am about the actual rule (very likely).

I've been searching all the hunter rules...hunter breeding, hunter, and hunter pony divisions, and can find no mention of any kind about whips. Am I missing something?

It's really not a big deal if it's not allowed, but I've got short arms, and he sometimes takes a flick of the whip on his haunches to get trotting. A short bat ain't gonna cut it. :)

[flyinghorse]

[QUOTE=DMK;2969534]Flying Horse - just to set you on theright path ;) your horse was RBYH - Reserve Best Young Horse (the winnner was Best Young Horse) - it's an odd thing, but when showing over fences, division titles are CH or R Ch, but on the line it's BYH and RBYH. ;)

thanks, DMK, I am totally clueless, as I usually show in the DSHB shows. Our filly is just so much the ultimate hunter :-) I had to take her to a HB Show!

www.emeraldspringequestrian.com

[Avra]

I've always carried a racing bat, which is more like 30 in. than 18--but the truth is, you use it more to keep the horse's attention when you square him up then you do to make the horse jog up. If you have to actually use the whip while you jog, you're in trouble anyway.

[gillenwaterfarm]

Thanks for the information.

[Janet]

In terms of RULES, if there is nothing in the Hunter Breeding rules, the you go to the General Rules.
GR803 Use of Whips.
No item may be used inside or outside the ring while showing a horse except one whip per
handler. If whips are allowed, they must be no longer than 6’ including the snapper or lash.
No appendages of any kind are permitted. One lungeing whip is permitted only when
lungeing. Some breed and/or disciplines may have use of whip division rules that depart
from this rule and as such, the division rule governs. (GR149.1)
So, in terms of RULES, you coud use a whip up to 6'.

But I agree that "long whips" and even not so long "dressage whips" are "not done" in Hunter Breeding- lack of rules not withstanding.

You also need ot remember that in sport horse breeding (dressage or eventing) we are told that the horse is NOT being judged on manners.

In Hunter Breeding, even though the rules make no mention of "manners" or "behavior", a more obediant horse is expected.

[Jesse'sMom]

i need to chirp in & say is does not have to be a dark brown bridle. It just needs to be a HUNTER bridle. can be any shade of brown, I also have seen a few in black who did win classes, but i highly do not recommend you do black. several have had the new chestnut color and do well
I also recall there was a change about the reins to leads, BUT DO please check with USEF. I was at the convention & there was a rule change pending about there being an exception to the reins to allow a lead attached to the bridle. DO NOT TAKE MY WORD 100%, I just know it was brought up, so ask them about it. if someone went to the meeting & has the white book with all the rule changes in it- it's in there.. mine got lost.

[Janet]

I also recall there was a change about the reins to leads, BUT DO please check with USEF. I was at the convention & there was a rule change pending about there being an exception to the reins to allow a lead attached to the bridle. DO NOT TAKE MY WORD 100%, I just know it was brought up, so ask them about it. if someone went to the meeting & has the white book with all the rule changes in it- it's in there.. mine got lost.
I am pretty sure that, even if approved, that rule change would not take effect until Dec 1 2008.

I checked the list of rule changes approved at the Jan 2008 meeting, that go into effect in the 2008 competition year
http://www.usef.org/documents/rules/ruleChanges/2008/BOD11308eff2008year.pdf
and there are no changes for Hunter Breeding.

They do not seem to have the results posted of which rules changes were approved, and which were not.

[gillenwaterfarm]

Thanks for all the information. Unfortunately, the entire show has been cancelled due to poor entries. :(

[Jesse'sMom]

I am pretty sure that, even if approved, that rule change would not take effect until Dec 1 2008.

I checked the list of rule changes approved at the Jan 2008 meeting, that go into effect in the 2008 competition year
http://www.usef.org/documents/rules/ruleChanges/2008/BOD11308eff2008year.pdf
and there are no changes for Hunter Breeding.

They do not seem to have the results posted of which rules changes were approved, and which were not.

i have to find the book for the proposed rule changes.- if i do- ill copy it & scan it- thanks for checking, I wasnt 100% when it would be in effect- ill keep looking.