sausage link leg**blew ANOTHER abscess (pg 3)

[wildREDhorse]

Ok.. update... (here's the old stuff) The wildREDhorse came out of stall on Monday, went out to ring to play with normal turnout partner... acted like a goon - ie. bucking, rearing, sliding stops, lead changes up and down the arena... she usually plays like this, but it was a bit more amped up than usual.

First trot I saw out of her she looked NQR behind, but thought I may be imagining because it was not really obvious (was moving up underneath self, using hind quarters well, etc). Long story shorter, tacked her up, got on, knew something was actually wrong.. Got off, lunged to localize- was much more obvious at this point - located that it was up high - stifle, hindquarters area. Or so I thought.

Did not want to push off with it on Tuesday. (was probably slightly worse than Monday)

-----
Took to vet Friday morning. The thermal scan showed that she was inflamed in her foot up through the rest of her leg and butt all of the muscles red hot. Her heel was reactive to hoof testers. Vet palpated her stifle, hock and fetlock - none of which were reactive. We decided that maybe she stepped on something and had bruised her heel, cocked her leg and made that whole side sore. Give her a PCN/steroid shot and an RVI.

Today I get out to give her the 2nd shot and she's standing in the back of her stall, doesn't come to greet me. I notice her leg is swelled up 2x the size of the normal size. :-X I decide to hand walk her for a while and swelling decreases, but I'm freaked out so I call vet's answering service. While waiting for vet to call back I hydro'd and it decreased a touch more.

Vet calls back right when i finish hydro-ing (wildredhorse said she'd had enough) very concerned as to why she'd be swelling up a week later, and says that it's probably swollen because she's not standing on it, so basically the circulation isn't working like it should in there. Says to walk her some more, and walk her every 2 hours while I'm awake and to call back tomorrow morning at the clinic, or if anything changes tonight.

She is very perky and wants to play. When I let her off the lead to roll in the arena, when she got up she bucked and cantered off on 3 legs, holding the 4th in the air. She is hungry and feisty as usual, and I've seen her get pathetic from an injury and she's not. So that is good... I'm just worried so I needed to share while I'm home for another hour. :-(

http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/ii14/wildREDhorse/DSC00708.jpg
This was after we had walked the first time and the swelling had come down some.

[deltawave]

I'd think cellulitis, or occult fracture. Temperature? Sounds like another farm call.

[wildREDhorse]

No temperature, just swollen. We thought maybe she had bruised her heel and pulled some muscles.. But then it swells up a week later on PCN & steroids.. Just doesn't make sense! :(

[FlashGordon]

Hmm I'd call the vet... but, my guess would be cellulitis/lymphangitis too.

No heat or sore spots? Any small cuts/scrapes/scratches anything where infection may have snuck in?

I'd cold hose, hand walk and pressure wrap to get some of that fluid back up towards the body and see if the lymph system will carry some of it away.

Lymphangitis can become chronic so it is worth the vet call to get an opinion. I know two horses that have it chronically, neither are sore on it but their legs can swell to double the size at times.

But worth a vet call, IMO.

[goeslikestink]

cold hose it if not injured put her out in small paddock and let her walk about on it to dislodge any build up of sinue fluid- then hose her at intervals - above the sweling -- and do it for 20mins at anyone time-- call the vet agin if no improvement

[wildREDhorse]

Called the vet when I first got out there.. I am hydro'ing it and walking as noted above.. and since she's on a whalloping dose of PCN and cellulitis is an infection... Shouldn't really be that.. As well, there were no cuts, the lameness all started after being a goon in turnout a week ago. Thermal scans showed inflammation throughout the whole leg (on Friday), and it was not swollen until today.

Also noted above what the vet thought it was from and what he wanted me to do, basically what stink said.

Just worried about the stinker. :( I really hope it resolves itself.

[deltawave]

since she's on a whalloping dose of PCN and cellulitis is an infection... Shouldn't really be that.Of course not. There are NO bacteria that are resistant to penicillin, after all. :rolleyes:

You're doing the right thing, but SOMETHING is cooking. My young mare got the most innocent looking scrape on her leg and the whole thing swelled up like a fire hose within half a day. She was absolutely 3-legged LAME and I thought she'd broken her humerus. It wasn't until the swelling went down, actually (2 days later) that we found the tiny little puncture wound at the site of the "scrape".

[jack mac]

its lymphangitis known better as mondayitis any leg or legs can swell when it occurs, your horse needs to be given a commercial diuretic for a few days & don't stable the horse it needs to wonder, something you have feed or administered has inflamed your horses kidneys its very common in race horses who are stabled for a few days after a week of hard work or stabled for long periods in lose boxes that have improper bedding so they retain there urine more rather the having it splash on there legs, run it by your vet ;)

[deltawave]

WHAT? Woah, welcome to the 1950s. You mean plain old stocking up is caused by inflamed kidneys? Wow, that's a new one, or should I say an old one? Or do you mean it's caused by standing around? One leg swollen is stocking up? In a horse that's dead lame? Systemic diuretics for isolated leg swelling? Not in MY barn.

[jack mac]

WHAT? Woah, welcome to the 1950s. You mean plain old stocking up is caused by inflamed kidneys? Wow, that's a new one, or should I say an old one? Or do you mean it's caused by standing around? One leg swollen is stocking up? In a horse that's dead lame? Systemic diuretics for isolated leg swelling? Not in MY barn.learn more about lymphatics uric acid lactic acid kidney function then blow hot air up my claker, why do you think your regularly giving race horses a diuretic for "fun" answer so there legs don't well up & tie up. you need to get out more than pony club.

[deltawave]

OK, I guess I'll turn in my degree and go back to medical school and try again. :rolleyes:

[FlashGordon]

I do agree somewhat... my vet had offered a similar explanation to my friend who has a mare with chronic lymphangitis.

My own horse had a small puncture wound and ended up with a blown up leg, my vet said the same thing... wrap, cold hose, walk, get that fluid moving back up into the body so it doesn't settle in that leg and become a chronic issue. If left to its own devices it can develop into something similar to what JM was saying.

I'm not a vet, or a trainer, or anything... but that's what I've been told by vets...

[wildREDhorse]

Well if it's her kidneys or a cut with an infection that is darn cruddy luck!!

First, I agree.. it does look like cellulitis.. But.. if it is, it means that she hurt herself Monday.. then somewhere later in the week cut, stabbed, etc herself in addition to what she did Monday and it blew up... Yeah, infections take time to brew, but her ENTIRE left hind quarters and leg and heel were inflamed this past Friday. So If she cut herself in addition to whatever she did to do that.. and it took a week to brew.. maybe.. but probably a long shot.. But then again, they are horses..

This is her 2 hour later walk from earlier (before)
http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/ii14/wildREDhorse/DSC00710.jpg

And after (not much difference but documented anyways)
http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/ii14/wildREDhorse/DSC00712.jpg
http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/ii14/wildREDhorse/DSC00711.jpg

I am thinking the vet probably guessed off the phone conversation correctly that it hurts (because of whatever she did to bang it up) and so she's not standing on it, which is throwing off the normal mechanisms that circulate the lymphatic flow which require the horse to use and stand on the foot properly to activate.. Sure is a lot less swollen than 3 hours ago. Yay!

Just dreading tomorrow AM.. I'm sure we'll start from scratch.. Bringing a lawn chair and my work out to sit in the barn and walk her accordingly.

Reminder... she was PERFECTLY sound when she went out on Monday, and came in 3 legged after playing hard.

[deltawave]

Is there heat in the leg?

[wildREDhorse]

Is there heat in the leg?

Yeah, it has been inflamed/hotter than usual (and other legs) all week (lower leg on up through hip area - to touch as well as thermal imaging). Just no swelling (Monday-Saturday) until today. The edema is pitting... SOOO much better on the 2nd walk, I didn't mash on it tonight.. But earlier I'd rate it probably a 2-3+ pitting edema.

[deltawave]

Well, if she's not toxic, it's improving quickly and there's no increase in heat or a fever, you're probably on the right track. :) If her soreness goes down with the swelling that's a good sign, too.

Please don't give her diuretics. The kidneys aren't to blame for an isolated leg swelling with a known cause. Whipping them isn't going to help, it's not their fault! :) Can you wrap her lower legs to help the swelling go down some more?

[Rick Burten]

why do you think your regularly giving race horses a diuretic for "fun" answer so there legs don't well up & tie up. .
Wrong answer. Diuretics, usually Furosemide(lasix) are give Pre-race to help control the severity and frequency of "lung bleeding" . It is also used in the treatment of non-inflammatory edema (e.g., allergic reaction, heart failure, excessive swelling of the udder after weaning).
And I note, for the record, that its use to control bleeding is not an FDA-approved use for the drug.
something you have feed or administered has inflamed your horses kidneys
Are you aware that one of the cautions on the information sheet that accompanies the drug, states, "Furosemide should be used with great caution, if at all, in cases where renal (kidney) function may be impaired;"
its lymphangitis
Without seeing the horse, how could you realistically make that diagnosis? Especially since you are 12,000 +/- miles away? Are you aware that lymphangitis is a secondary result of a cut or infection? The OP states there is no cut so I would question how an infection in that area would get started.

[Rick Burten]

[QUOTE=wildREDhorse;2967393]
http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/ii14/wildREDhorse/DSC00708.jpg
Looking at this photo, I first note that there is no real swelling below the fetlock, so I would tend to rule out a heel bruise or other trauma to the hoof. Of course, a quick pass with the hoof testers is in order too just to try and eliminate the hoof from the focus of finding the problem. Since the hock and cannon area are swollen, I think I might be looking a bit more closely at the hock itself.

But right now, I would caution against the use of a diuretic.

[CoolMeadows]

JacMac, diuretics are given to racehorses in an attempt to control pulmonary hemorrhage in North America. My understanding is Lasix is a banned substance for racehorses in Australia, is that not true?

I've had a horse's leg blow up like that in three instances, one was a horse that got off the trailer with cellulitis, one was the result of a massive heel abscess brewing and the last was from a wee nick. Your horse isn't a Tb is it? :lol:

If this were my horse, I'd be wrapping the entire leg in three parts using a sweat with this stuff: http://www.bigdweb.com/detail.aspx?id=18444 (works wonders but be warned - if there is a cut it will sting!) and I'd be soaking that foot in a pan of warm water with epsom salt and betadine just in case until a vet can give a firm diagnosis. I don't particularly like using Naquasone but in the case of the horse with cellulitis, we had to.

Good luck!

[wildREDhorse]

Well, if she's not toxic, it's improving quickly and there's no increase in heat or a fever, you're probably on the right track. :) If her soreness goes down with the swelling that's a good sign, too.

Please don't give her diuretics. The kidneys aren't to blame for an isolated leg swelling with a known cause. Whipping them isn't going to help, it's not their fault! :) Can you wrap her lower legs to help the swelling go down some more?

:lol: I promise I won't give her Lasix. I'll reserve that for the old fogey's with heart failure (of the 2-legged kind in the hospital).

I sure am hoping we're on the right track, I'm just concerned why the heck we swelled up a WEEK after the injury.. And then there is the question of.. what the HECK did she do in those 30 minutes of playing that is causing all this! I hope there's not more too it than our original dx of bruised heel and pulled/sore muscles. We didn't take films... So I hope nothing is broken!

I thought about sweating it.. But then I started to think... Well what if it decides to swell back up instead of sweat like it's supposed to... And then she'd have a standing wrap on it at preswelled tightness.. Probably not a good scenario.. Maybe tomorrow morning while I read about Respiatory Disorders in High Acuity patients I will consider it since I'll be right there to keep an eye on it.

I must say though, walking her in the dark tonight, I was thinking, dang, my horse walks better on her leash than most dogs, :lol: but gosh... then I started admiring the beauty of an elegant TB with steam blowing from their nose on a cool winter night.. Really reminds you of how absolutely gorgeous they really are. And how we take it for granted sometimes!

[deltawave]

The OP did say the heel was reactive to hoof testers.

Is this a chestnut mare, by chance? :) Could be an abscess brewing. When my big red girl had an abscess her whole lower leg swelled and she even showed up "hot" over the suspensory. Took 10 years off my life, I swear, until that thing burst at the coronet! Immediate relief, of course. She was indifferent to hoof testers, too, just to be difficult! :p

[wildREDhorse]

[QUOTE=wildREDhorse;2967393]
http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/ii14/wildREDhorse/DSC00708.jpg
Looking at this photo, I first note that there is no real swelling below the fetlock, so I would tend to rule out a heel bruise or other trauma to the hoof. Of course, a quick pass with the hoof testers is in order too just to try and eliminate the hoof from the focus of finding the problem. Since the hock and cannon area are swollen, I think I might be looking a bit more closely at the hock itself.

But right now, I would caution against the use of a diuretic.

Hoof testers on Friday - was reactive to the heel.

Palpated the hock, fetlock and stifle thoroughly and she was not reactive at all. Just enjoyed the fan blowing in her face and thought it was nice the vet was touching her all over. The pastern was more swollen the first go round. It seems to have come down a ton like the rest.

Still strange it waited a week to blow up...

[Rick Burten]

With that information in hand, you might want to consider soaking the hoof in a hot water/Epsom Salt soak, once or twice a day for 20-30 minutes. That the limb is swollen up into the hock, may also indicate that at the same time the insult to the hoof occurred, there was insult/trauma to the hock as well.

[wildREDhorse]

Excuse my lack of art ability but this is vaguely what the thermal scan looked like

http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/ii14/wildREDhorse/thermalscan.jpg

And the horse had thermal scans many times in the past months and it has NEVER looked anything like that. Usually mostly green and blue with a little bit of light red in sore spots, but it was dark this time.. It was very ANGRY on Friday. I would have ran and hid if it correlated to a monster.

Yep, she's my little red headed sweetheart.

Another note.. I just thought about it... When I touched it or tried to pick it, she held it out to the side almost like a cow kick, but was very gentle not to kick me and held it there like a wing until I was done...

http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/ii14/wildREDhorse/thermalscanbetter.jpg (forgot the 2nd leg.. It had a touch of inflammation probably from being stood on.. but mostly greens and blues appropriately.

[jack mac]

neutradex active constituent sodium acid citrate 283.3g & i don't recall me saying to take the horse of the antibiotics i swear you Americans can be rude & love to jump in & shoot your mouths off before asking a simple question to see if we are on the same wavelength gezzz:mad: ps its made by Vetsearch

[Rick Burten]

i swear you Americans can be rude & love to jump in & shoot your mouths off.....
Grandma used to say, "Now there's a case of the pot calling the kettle, black."

[jack mac]

simple things that can cause lymphngitis to high a consumption of alkaloids, allergic reactions , 1 example ivermectin or its derivation if the horse has been over dosed with worm preparation & if it is allege related you will still get heat & raised temperature that's why i thought it important that you have a wider scoop ill remember not to bother the experts next time :yes:

[wildREDhorse]

simple things that can cause lymphngitis to high a consumption of alkaloids, allergic reactions , 1 example ivermectin or its derivation if the horse has been over dosed with worm preparation & if it is allege related you will still get heat & raised temperature that's why i thought it important that you have a wider scoop ill remember not to bother the experts next time :yes:

Nothing has changed in the mare's diet recently. She gets wormed by the vet, and had that done back in November or so.

I think it's too big of a coincidence that we have been doctoring this leg that was acutely injured and it's inflammation - and now it swells. That would be a darn big coincidence if it was metabolic, the already hurt leg is the only one that swelled, and nothing has changed in her routine.. I think that is why people are questioning the metabolic idea.

Like I said in my original post, the horse went out perfectly sound on Monday and came in lame 30 minutes later. She was being a wild goon, and I'm pretty sure that did it. Just not sure why it is swelling up an entire week later.

[atr]

I'll bet you a bag of carrots it's an abscess brewing subsequent to a stone bruise or trauma to that heel. It can be really quite dramatic.

[wildREDhorse]

I'll bet you a bag of carrots it's an abscess brewing subsequent to a stone bruise or trauma to that heel. It can be really quite dramatic.

Will you share them with the poor red horse if you win? She's going to be expecting a lot of cookies if she has to walk every 2 hours tomorrow. Hopefully the PCN will dry that sucker up so it doesn't blow at the coronary band if that's the case. I think that's what it's supposed to do afterall.

These darn horses.. They really do themselves in good. Hopefully she'll feel better after a couple more days of PCN and the steroids helping the inflammation.. and those poor heiny muscles having a rest.

Plan is to check in with the vet tomorrow AM.. and hope I don't have to pack her into the trailer.. Last thing I need is a 3rd vet bill in 2 weeks. Hopefully just get a treatment plan... and have the princess feeling better!!!

[jack mac]

Nothing has changed in the mare's diet recently. She gets wormed by the vet, and had that done back in November or so.

I think it's too big of a coincidence that we have been doctoring this leg that was acutely injured and it's inflammation - and now it swells. That would be a darn big coincidence if it was metabolic, the already hurt leg is the only one that swelled, and nothing has changed in her routine.. I think that is why people are questioning the metabolic idea.

Like I said in my original post, the horse went out perfectly sound on Monday and came in lame 30 minutes later. She was being a wild goon, and I'm pretty sure that did it. Just not sure why it is swelling up an entire week later.Are your photos in order & did the swelling running up the leg or down it, if it were from an abscess in her foot the swelling would run up the leg that's not to say she wont get one if careless with applying pressure with the hoof testers? have the antibiotics reduce the swelling or increased it meaning the swelling started after the antibiotics were administered & did you only notice the large amount of swelling in the limb before or after? the antibiotics & how many days & what dose are you giving her & is it penicillin or a sulfide & have you check her glands round her throat to see if there enlarged ? & is she putting any weight on the limb & if so is it on the toe or heel? sorry for all the questions :) but i have trouble following what you mean half the time over there.:)

[wildREDhorse]

Leg swelled up over night (as expected). Walked her 3x so far today, hydro'd 2x, lymphatic massage while she was in her stall. She's walking on her toe like she's wanting to blow an abscess, but then once she gets walking, she seems to be doing a bit better. Of course, she feels better the more the swelling goes down, but other things hurt also.

I turned her out for a bit and she didn't use the foot appropriately (wants to use toe). When I take her on walks, she walks correctly. So I guess it's a bunch of handwalking for her.

Vet is going to start her on a dfft abo since it's not getting better (being on Abo's since Friday). After our next walking session I will venture off to the office to pick up her new rx.

This morning when I arrived
http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/ii14/wildREDhorse/DSC00714.jpg

When I left for lunch
http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/ii14/wildREDhorse/DSC00718.jpg
http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/ii14/wildREDhorse/DSC00720.jpg

[marta]

my mare just went through it last week (still treating with oral antibiotics).
she kicked at the fence and cut her leg in 3 places. but the swelling came a couple of days later and it was unlike the usual swelling you see when a horse gets kicked or strains a muscle. and the leg was v. sensitive to touch, although apparently not as extreme as some cases where it looks as if the horse broke its leg.

[wildREDhorse]

I'm putting my money on that after she bruised it a week ago, an abscess formed.

We just switched Abo's

[justhanginon]

Ok, the whole time I was reading this I was thinking abscess. But you guys were using really big words and have all kinds of scary medical knowledge so I was afraid to post. Thankfully one of you brainiacs said it first so I am backing that up. Our mare had something similar a couple years ago and made it difficult for us to find. "Let's hurt one part of my body one week and then throw in an abscess that doesn't want to blow the next, just to keep them confused" ;) So that's my vote and i hope that's all it is. And PS you people make me feel soo in adequate. Deltawave, I don't know how you manage to do all you do in real life and still make time to contribute all of your intelligent posts to this board, I think maybe I should go read a book or something !

[wildREDhorse]

Ok, the whole time I was reading this I was thinking abscess. But you guys were using really big words and have all kinds of scary medical knowledge so I was afraid to post. Thankfully one of you brainiacs said it first so I am backing that up. Our mare had something similar a couple years ago and made it difficult for us to find. "Let's hurt one part of my body one week and then throw in an abscess that doesn't want to blow the next, just to keep them confused" ;) So that's my vote and i hope that's all it is. And PS you people make me feel soo in adequate. Deltawave, I don't know how you manage to do all you do in real life and still make time to contribute all of your intelligent posts to this board, I think maybe I should go read a book or something !

Well I sure am GlaD to hear that my imagined scenario has come full circle for someone else! I am hoping that the new antibiotics we switched her too today will either dry that abscess up or it blows so the poor horse can be comfortable again.

I'm watching the housewives orange county... talk about brain numbing... Maybe I sHOULD go read a book.

[deltawave]

How is the mare today? :)

justhanginon: thank you for the compliment. I can type, think and talk on the phone all at the same time. :D A lot of my COTHing is done when I'm sitting around waiting for something or someone, which is a sizeable part of my day. :dead: And I don't watch TV except for football, Rolex, horse racing (the big ones) and "House". ;)

[Pippin]

just curious have you had an Ultrasound done? Abscess would be high on my list of thoughts... but also a DDFT or Tendon sheath issue????

good luck..

P~

[wildREDhorse]

Ugh... Just posted reply and internet ate it..

Abscess blew out through inside heel at coronary band. Put some epsom salt green goop on to help draw whatever else is left in there out.

Leg still swollen like a stump.. But seems to be moving out because hock and top of cannon bone are not as swollen despite bottom of leg being very swollen still.

Will call vet and ask how he wants me to continue treatment.

[atr]

Good! Horsie must have some considerable relief! It may take a day or so for all the swelling to subside.

I'm donating the bag of carrots to your horse :)

[wildREDhorse]

Good! Horsie must have some considerable relief! It may take a day or so for all the swelling to subside.

I'm donating the bag of carrots to your horse :)

I will tell her who to thank for them. :)


http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/ii14/wildREDhorse/DSC00733.jpg
Here is her pretty pink slipper holding the epsom salt on for any that appreciate neon pink vet wrap as much as I do. :D Finally had a reason to use it!

[jack mac]

Ugh... Just posted reply and internet ate it..

Abscess blew out through inside heel at coronary band. Put some epsom salt green goop on to help draw whatever else is left in there out.

Leg still swollen like a stump.. But seems to be moving out because hock and top of cannon bone are not as swollen despite bottom of leg being very swollen still.

Will call vet and ask how he wants me to continue treatment.that's good to here the abscess burst better to here you changed the antibiotic ;):)

[deltawave]

Whew, what a relief for you AND the mare!

Abscesses are like tuberculosis or lupus: "the great imitator". NEVER leave it off the list of possibilities! She should be feeling better lickety split. :yes:

[wildREDhorse]

Whew, what a relief for you AND the mare!

Abscesses are like tuberculosis or lupus: "the great imitator". NEVER leave it off the list of possibilities! She should be feeling better lickety split. :yes:

Not to mention such random things cause them... like bruises.. I'm glad humans don't get abscesses every time they bruise! I'd be oozing pus all the time.

Here's something you'd appreciate as a dr.. totally unrelated, but re: TB... I had a TB patient my 2nd semester of nursing school that one day decided he needed to go for a "walk"... I run to find my preceptor.. and she doesn't really do anything.. So I'm freaking out.. But the pt did put his mask on... Well he comes wandering back to his room (up to the 7th floor, through the elevator) without his stinkn mask on!!! I was like OMG!! are you KIDDING ME?!?!? And I tell the nurse again.. And so, since she didn't want to get near him (the TB duck looking masks were near his door where he was wandering to) she yells down the hall that he needs to stay in his room. Ok, non-horse related rant over...

Vet didn't want me sweating that leg while we were waiting for the abscess to dry up or go away... Do you think I should let it be... Or take an active role in making the swelling go away?.... If there is any infection in that leg for any reason I don't want to sweat it and chance it going systemic (although she is supposed to stay on her Gentamicin)... Or if she'd feel so much better if the swelling was helped out...


On the subject of Gentamicin... With humans we want to use it IV.. Or else it does not have good system results (per my pharm class)... I am giving this shot IM... Now, we rarely do anything IM on humans if we don't absolutely have to anyways... But, what is the thought on giving horses IM Gent? Any idea?

[deltawave]

Gentamicin's bioavailability is really variable with IM injection in humans (and it HURTS) plus in cases where reliable IV dosing is problematic (ie, 99% of horses, as their owners typically aren't comfortable with IV injections) IM is usually a decent substitute.

[wildREDhorse]

Ok, how long should it take for that foot to be feeling better? I'm starting to worry that something else is wrong.. But then I take a deep breath and think, well I bet that foot really hurts with a hole in it.

When I looked at it today there was a dark blackish-purplish bruise at the base of where the abscess blew out on that heel, and a reddish line of one next to where it blew out... So it is obviously still bruised..

Mid-day I made her a little gauze, green epsom salt goop, vet wrap cushion with vet wrap wrapped cushion because she was so appreciative for it yesterday.. And it seemed to help again today, but she is still SO lame... Other people at the barn says she looks better, but I think she looks so bad still.. Which could be my over critical eye and mother's worry about crippled child.. And I of course never trust anyone elses eye :)...

The Gent seems to be working.. And you could actually see the beginnings of definition in that leg today.. And when I'd sneak up on her in her stall, she was actually standing on the owwie leg, resting the other, but when she walks she is like OW IT HURTS!!

She is also starting to get REALLY pissed off that we are walking in circles aruond the arena and is starting to be dangerous... In a playful way, but not safe.. Nipping at my ID badge, rearing and just being BAD. So I am just wanting this whole 3-legged, bruised, abscessed heel, pulled muscle dilemma to be OVER so I can lunge her and WORK her butt down u/s. And let her horsey friends take care of that playful behavior that I don't want to deal with. I had to really get after her today which made me feel bad since she ran away from me with the 4th leg in the air... But I can't just let her get away with those sorts of behaviors... of course, i am WAY too laid back and just stare at her annoyed when she does it, and when the legs come back down I get after her... I just can't get after her when she's 3-legged like I would if she did that and was 4-legged. She would be dripping sweat and begging forgiveness if she was fully functional and healthy right now.

Is this normal for a bad bruise that blows out as an abscess to continue to hurt so bad?? How long should I expect this to go on before getting MORE worried??

TIA...:(

[LarkspurCO]

Well it sounds like maybe the infection hasn't fully cleared. I have a chestnut that had several episodes of cellulitis in the past year, as well as an abscess in a rear heel that took some time to clear out (didn't get cellulitis with that abscess though). Soak/poultice the hoof again? I had good luck with the equine slipper.

Last case of cellulitis was in a front leg. Horse was wearing a shoe/pad at the time so we just left that on and treated for abscess + cellulitis. When the swelling went dwn there was a bump near the the suspensory branch and then shoes were pulled and a tiny crack discovered at the coronary band. We never knew just exactly why he got the cellulitis (vet said "because he can").

[wildREDhorse]

Well it sounds like maybe the infection hasn't fully cleared. I have a chestnut that had several episodes of cellulitis in the past year, as well as an abscess in a rear heel that took some time to clear out (didn't get cellulitis with that abscess though). Soak/poultice the hoof again? I had good luck with the equine slipper.

Last case of cellulitis was in a front leg. Horse was wearing a shoe/pad at the time so we just left that on and treated for abscess + cellulitis. When the swelling went dwn there was a bump near the the suspensory branch and then shoes were pulled and a tiny crack discovered at the coronary band. We never knew just exactly why he got the cellulitis (vet said "because he can").

Do you think it could be cellulitis despite the swelling in the leg going down drastically in the last 24?

The mare does have a tendency to stock up (even if she's perfectly sound sometimes).. But since getting used to living in a stall we haven't been having any issues with it.. But I wonder if the excess swelling could be attributed to that?... She has not been on any anti-inflammatories or pain killers as the vet did not want her to feel "too good" (she gets wild(er)) and reinjure before her body was really ready for it...

[LarkspurCO]

I was suggesting the abscess might still be looming. I don't know about the cellulitis except to say that, with my horse, various "insults" seemed to trigger it -- so I think of the cellulitis as more of a secondary reaction.

Mine had scratches in the left hind (white sock there, too) and that's the leg he had three episodes of cellulitis in. The right front was a complete mystery.

The key for mine was turnout and cold hosing to get the swelling down. He did well on oral SMZs. Once I was able to get the swelling under control with just cold hosing and turnout. He is stalled overnight and does still stock up in the left hind.

[wildREDhorse]

I was suggesting the abscess might still be looming. I don't know about the cellulitis except to say that, with my horse, various "insults" seemed to trigger it -- so I think of the cellulitis as more of a secondary reaction.

Mine had scratches in the left hind (white sock there, too) and that's the leg he had three episodes of cellulitis in. The right front was a complete mystery.

The key for mine was turnout and cold hosing to get the swelling down. He did well on oral SMZs. Once I was able to get the swelling under control with just cold hosing and turnout. He is stalled overnight and does still stock up in the left hind.

Ah, gotcha. Well seeing as how turnout is not an option bc the fence is still broken and the turnout is a sloppy mess in addition, I guess I need to keep walking... And cold hosing :(

[LarkspurCO]

That sounds like quite a difficult challenge, with no turnout and the mud. I had a tough time last summer keeping the abscess clean and dry with the mud and all. Good luck with her.

[talloaks]

Could you get one of those ice boots to use on the swollen leg 20min at a time? I found they work so much better than cold hosing. I know this stuff can drag on forever it seems.

[deltawave]

Any reason why she couldn't move a LITTLE more, maybe on the longe line?

[wildREDhorse]

Any reason why she couldn't move a LITTLE more, maybe on the longe line?

Well, yesterday she was still a bit 3-legged lame.

Today, she came out of her stall and finally didn't wince when she stepped on the cement. I played with her on the end of my long lead rope (I've done lots of round penning, and she will play with me anyways) and she cantered after me when I ran away, and actually used the foot. And she got to play kissy face with her best friend... So she seemed a bit happier. (We used to be able to turn out in the ring, but rules changed this week because they fixed the arena fence)... But after playing with me a bit, the foot did start to hurt a bit more so I cut it out. (There's still a big black bruise where the abscess blew). Swelling is MUCH better.

Then she proceeded to lose a baby tooth at my feet when a barnmate fed her a treat, and then whack her front leg on something and make it bleed during dinner. At least these were not too big of insults!!

I am counting the days til the poor horse gets to go outside and play in turnout all day as horses should. Until then..

[TheOrangeOne]

My guy had a similar swelling, we did bloodwork out the wazoo and couldn't find anything other than him being pissed about his post-op stall rest. I furazone sweated with so-so results and also use naquazone (spelled wrong most likely) which did the best of anything short of sticking him out in the field as horses ought to be. His started in the leg he had surgery on (imagine my fear- horse has an infected surgical wound into the joint capsule! Life as I know it will cease to exist!) and it progressed to all four, all of which ended up looking about like that one, maybe a little worse- the worst of it they were purpleish. Mine on the other hand did not seem to notice or care that his legs were retaining aproximately 36.5repeating gallons of watter from just above the hock or knee downward. I wish I had a picture of the bulbous hocks... Anyways, my point is to ask about the naquazone and get her out ASAP- she will be fine even though it looks like it's awful.

[wildREDhorse]

Since no turnout available I took Deltawave's advice and let her swing around on the lunge line yesterday. I let her track right so that the sore foot was on the outside. I let her trot a bit, then asked her to pick up the canter since the outside hind doesn't have to push off as much at that speed/direction.

She actually looked rather content, and it was nice to see her USING that leg instead of tucking it up to her belly. Then she realized YES!!! I am feeling BETTER!!! and pulled a couple of big bucks out of the bag. Then, something in the distance was making her spooky and she dropped back down to the trot and showed me a GORGEOUS springy, floaty, power hind end trot. I drooled, and let her continue until she wanted to stop. You couldn't really see the lameness with that trot.

Then made her walk... Then asked her to trot again to see if we were now recrippled and the slow lazy trot was again very obvious like when we started (hey can't a girl wish that exercise magically fixed the bruise, haha)... I guess we'll see how today goes... I want her to be better so that I can stop worrying that she hurt something up high in addition to her bruised heel!!!!

[wildREDhorse]

*#^%*@^%*^!$*!&&!@&$#(*&$...

Got out to the barn today, and the BM/trainer tells me that her leg was really swollen again this morning and that she pooped and peed messily last night. Like she didn't want to move from where she was standing. This is a VERY VERY VERY TIDY mare, who designates certain areas for the bathroom, and so it worried her. So she let her out for 1-2 hours in the arena so she'd move around, to see if the swelling would subside and if she would perk up.

So I take a deep breath and go in the stall to check the mare. Her swollen leg was on the far side from me, so I inspected her as I walked around back. Leg very swollen again. No changes in the abscess that blew earlier this week (inside coronary band, heel). Continue around, and on the outside of her foot, I notice a glop of shavings/dirt stuck to her hoof. And I wipe it off thinking maybe she just had something nasty and horsy stuck there.

Whelp, it was nasty and gooey feeling, and I wipe it on my jeans and start wiping the rest from the coronary band. And I notice that more is coming out and that the coronary band is mushy. YEP, another friggn abscess on that foot that blew at the coronary band. *BIG SIGH* :cry::cry::cry:


She was wild tonight, and I attempted to walk her, but it was once again - not safe. So I threw her on the lunge, and she was WILD and WILD and WILD. Still sore, but wilder than she has been. And willing to go both directions.... MAYBE this is why we weren't getting sound after the other one blew...???? I really hope so... Maybe now that we have 2 exploded abscesses she'll feel better sooner...? :cry:

I put epsom goop on the newest hole and on her hock on that leg because it was still a bit hot.

Send me some encouragement here! How long 'til my princess is sound??? :cry:

The only funny nasty thing is that when I stopped to talk to someone, she started licking the pus from my jeans... SOOOO GROSSS. I wonder why she thinks it tastes good... That is SOOO unhealthy. Eh, I guess it's just white blood cells...

[wildREDhorse]

A couple more questions... What are the downfalls to abscesses blowing out at the coronary band?

How long til they generally tend to feel better?

Anyone had more than one abscess blow from the same foot within a week? :(

I can't get this off my mind now, ugh...

[cllane1]

Sorry, no experience with multiple abscesses, but my TB gelding had one blow at the coronet band a few years ago. I actually found it easier to deal with than one on the sole, as it stayed cleaner, drier, and more exposed. Cleared up with no problems at all.

Jingling for the wildredhorse and her feetsies!

[Laurierace]

Hopefully that is the one you were waiting for and she is now on the road to recovery.

[wildREDhorse]

Sorry, no experience with multiple abscesses, but my TB gelding had one blow at the coronet band a few years ago. I actually found it easier to deal with than one on the sole, as it stayed cleaner, drier, and more exposed. Cleared up with no problems at all.

Jingling for the wildredhorse and her feetsies!

Did you have any issues as it grew down? Did your boy feel better almost immediately (within a day or so??) after it blew??

Hopefully that is the one you were waiting for and she is now on the road to recovery.

Thanks, it just seems like it's one thing after another. I'm about to throw a BIGger pity party for myself if she doesn't get better soon. It's just not fun when your only interaction with them is doctoring and vet bills... All that could have been training money down the drain... I should have invested in stock with my vet months ago... Seriously.

[cllane1]

Hey wildRedhorse,

I was a little worried about how it would affect the integrity of the hoof as it grew out, but it was fine. Just grew out as a little line, not a hole or anything. He did feel relief after it popped and was back to 80% sounds right away, but it took a few more days for him to really get back to 100%. My horse is stoic like your gal is, so for him to be 3 legged lame, I knew SOMETHING had to be going on! In his case, we knew it was caused by his shoe: he had twisted his shoe and stepped on the clip. So we were keeping an eye out for an abscess. Had I not known what was happening, I would have thought he'd broken his leg!

[atr]

Not to be a wet blanket here, but if the horse does not start to get better, or blows another abscess from that hoof in the very near future, get the vet involved like pronto.

At this stage in the game for you it is more than likely just a couple of abscesses pretty much on top of each other, a complete pain, but not a big deal.

However, IF it continues, (which is really very unlikely,) you get another blow-hole, no pain relief (I'm really NOT trying to be an alarmist here!) then get x-rays. It could be a sign of coffin bone involvement, which requires immediate and aggressive treatment, better antibiotics, sometimes surgery. You might also want to consider requesting a culture of whatever is coming out of the blowholes IF it continues to make sure you are using the most effective antibiotics for the bug at hand (or hoof.)

[Marcella]

I just have to say...jingle jingle jingle for you and your horse.

While I can't offer much help, I have to say, I thought my horse would never get better. Hind foot abscess, then got cellulitis in the leg, then stepped on a nail outside, then got an abscess in that foot.

It seemed like he would never be OK. Now, his hind leg still swells up, but he doesn't go lame from it.

These horses...the ones that are pampered fall apart on you. I drive by horses standing outside with moldy round bales ad tons of rusty farm equipment around them and they don't have a scratch on them.

Best to both of you!!!

[ReeseTheBeast]

Agreed with ATR.

Multiple abcesses are not the sign of anything good or healthy going on in that foot and to be honest, I'd call my farrier and vet out sooner than later. I would be inclined to ask the good doctor to take some rads of both back feet as well as use the hoof testers on all 4, since I would be concerned about the possibility of laminitis and/or compensatory pain; and just give the farrier a heads up of what's been going on since s/he would most likely a) want to see the hoof in question and b) be involved in the recovery.

And besides just the abcessing, cellulitis (or concerns of) are something in need of urgent care in my opinion. Which may or may not be that of the majority, but it's my opinion nonetheless and it's worth what you paid for it. :winkgrin:

I would also suggest taking a gander over at horseshoes.com on their "farriers helping owners" forum, in the "abcesses, WLD and other nasty stuff" section. Lots of good info there.

Like ATR, I'm not trying to be an alarmist; I'm just being honest... I've learned a LOT both the hard way and by observing other horses and owners regarding hooves and such. One of the biggest lessons on my resume these days is that the hooves tell a lot of the story about what's going on in the body and that they're also one of the most difficult things to get right once they've gone wrong.

Jingles for you and your mare- it seems like you guys are really going through it right now!

[wildREDhorse]

No, no, it's OK. I'd rather be safe than sorry. And considering I've already paid so much into the vet the past 7 months, I might as well keep doing all I can to keep the girl healthy! I will call him on my lunch break.

The farrier was out on Monday to reset the front and trimmed the back (when we had the Banamine reaction), he put the hoof testers on her (pre-Banamine) and she was not really reactive. She is a VERY stoic mare, just will look around at you and let you poke and not complain about anything. That being said, it makes it REALLY hard to see what's wrong!

The farrier had suggested I continue the epsom salt on the first abscess (it was small compared to this one) to see if we could get anything out. He even thought the first one might have been an abrasion, but I know a little fluid did come out, so ???? And then she subsequently blew the abscess. In retrospect, I recall wiping a glob of stuff RIGHT in that area before I put her up on Monday (after the farrier was done and I had walked her), and thought it was the hoof hardener that we had put on.. But maybe started to blow right after he was done??.... It was in that exact spot... Usually I'm more in-tune than that... ugh.

The last we talked to the vet was also on Monday about the Banamine reaction she had, so he knew she was still swollen and in pain. But I will call and update him that she blew another abscess, and see if he wants to see her again. Maybe this is the one we've been fighting all along and the other was a little bruise that just had that tiny bit of fluid.

The opposite hoof is cool and healthy feeling, I have been checking daily (this is also a daily check we do when she's healthy, so I do have a baseline). She has been resting both of the feet (even healthy one), so I am not too worried about founder of that foot at this point. We have also been walking and hydro'ing her frequently (for the last week) to ward off her not using the sore leg and causing more problems. I think this has been a big help.

Ok, this is getting too long. I will stop dragging it out.
Thanks to all for all of your opinions and brainstorming. Much appreciated!!

[wildREDhorse]

Just got call from BM/trainer, said that her leg looks WAY better this morning than it did yesterday & last night (pre-lunge). And she's been in her stall all night. She also resumed normal stall habits, ie being a tidy rabbit again. :) GREAT NEWS. Hopefully we will be on the easy road now. We shall see.

I will still call vet to make sure there is nothing else he wants me to do, if nothing else, at least he will stay updated with what is going on.

[Lookout]

*#^%*@^%*^!$*!&&!@&$#(*&$...

So I take a deep breath and go in the stall to check the mare. Her swollen leg was on the far side from me, so I inspected her as I walked around back. Leg very swollen again. No changes in the abscess that blew earlier this week (inside coronary band, heel). Continue around, and on the outside of her foot, I notice a glop of shavings/dirt stuck to her hoof. And I wipe it off thinking maybe she just had something nasty and horsy stuck there.

Whelp, it was nasty and gooey feeling, and I wipe it on my jeans and start wiping the rest from the coronary band. And I notice that more is coming out and that the coronary band is mushy. YEP, another friggn abscess on that foot that blew at the coronary band. *BIG SIGH* :cry::cry::cry:



This is a continuation of the original abscess, not another new one. It sounds like the first one blew prematurely because of so much pressure (swollen leg and all), and the reddish line you saw and thought was a bruise was the partially 'brewed' abscess prematurely blowing. (An abscess starts out in life containing lots of blood which is how the white blood cells get to the site to do away with the necrotic tissue there).

Then, you exercised her (the best thing you can do when you have an abscess to get blood flowing and thus speed its resolution), and the rest of the (huge) abscess began to expel. By the nastiness you describe it sounds like it still might not be completely 'processed'.

The reason a leg will swell from an abscess is due to the discomfort associated with it, they are reluctant to use the limb, so they don't put pressure on it, which prevents the necessary circulation/pumping from occurring. Lack of lymph and fluid being sent back up the leg from lack of exercise so it accumulates in the limb. So really the best thing is exercise even if it's a little painful, the end result and resolutiion is worth it.

[blackstallion]

.... So really the best thing is exercise even if it's a little painful, the end result and resolutiion is worth it.

I have to agree here. My filly had the abcess from heck last fall - leg blew up, 3 legged lame, etc. The evening before the vet came out she had a huge heel abcess blow out the coronary band (like your horse). My veterinarian said to leave her on full turn out (as normal for her), wrapping and soaking wouldn't help, but that she could have a little bute. I guess it's scary before you KNOW it's an abcess, but if that's the vets prognosis, I'd give her her turnout back before you both get hurt on the lungeline ;) Let her self-exercise and work it out.

In my filly's case it was weeks before all the swelling went down in her leg and months before the heel looked normal again. If you think about it, the damage will have to grow down (from coronary to the ground) and be replaced with healthy hoof. Takes more time than if the damage is in the sole growing down.

Good luck and hope she is on the road to recovery!