Sabino Questions

[LaurieB]

I have a mare due to foal in a couple of weeks and I'm just wondering about the possibilities. She's bay with a star. Her dam is bay with two low socks and a blaze that extends down onto her lower lip. Dam's bay half-brother has produced many foals and the chestnuts are, more often than not, rather flashy sabinos.

So...does white on the lower lip mean that my mare's dam carries the sabino gene? And if so, I guess that would mean that my mare has a 50/50 chance of inheriting it? (Her sire is plain bay and produces much of the same.)

The stallion I've bred her to is a mostly plain bay who carries for chestnut but doesn't produce flashy horses. Do both parents have to carry the sabino gene in order for it to be expressed, or can just one make it happen?

I've pretty much resigned myself to a plain bay foal as that's mostly what we get around here :lol: but it's fun to play with the possibilities. :yes: Thanks for the help!

[Daventry]

From what I've learned about sabino's, in order to classify a horse as sabino, they must possess at least TWO of the sabino characteristics. So, your mare's dam having a lower lip spot would only be one. She'd also need one more characteristic, e.g. white hairs throughout the coat, belly spots, jagged socks, white above the hock, etc. If she doesn't have anything else, she is not sabino.

That being said, even if she had been sabino and was throwing it into her foals, your mare did not get that gene as she's just a plain bay with a star. So, you're only hope of getting a sabino foal would be to breed her to a stallion with sabino characteristics.

[clint]

I have a mare who, by Daventry's definition, isn't a sabino. She has a star and white extending into her lower lip, but her four white socks are just socks and no other white. Bred to Freestyle, a black stallion with no white, she produced a black foal with four white socks, a blaze that extends through his lower lip, and a belly spot. So, I don't know what to think. Is she a minimally expressed sabino? Her sire has white into the lower lip, her mother doesn't, although she does have a blaze and four white stockings. So, I will be curious to see what markings your foal has.:)

[vineyridge]

TBs are different.

The sabino flash can hide for generations, and then pop out unexpectedly. There are many very famous lines of TBs that are noted for having cropouts from plain bay mares and sires.

If you go over to the pedigree query boards and ask Jorge about the lines of your horse, he can tell you whence cometh the sabino.

[LaurieB]

Thanks for the replies!

Daventry, I know the mare isn't a sabino herself but as I understand it, the gene is recessive; so she could carry for the coloring without showing it. That's the part I was trying to ask about. She's a TB mare, racing bloodlines, http://www.pedigreequery.com/raffles+light so the color of the foal is immaterial. I'm just having fun while I wait (impatiently!) for it to arrive.

clint, I'd be delighted if I got as lucky as you did. :)

[LaurieB]

Thanks Vineyridge! I know where the sabino gene came from. If you look at her pedigree (in the post above) it's pretty clear. What I'm still trying to figure out, though, is whether both parents have to carry the sabino gene for it to be expressed in the offspring.

[vineyridge]

Color, smulor.

I hope the foal takes after all the great ones in the tail female line! So who is the sire?

[LaurieB]

Color, smulor.

I hope the foal takes after all the great ones in the tail female line! So who is the sire?


LOL, me too! :yes:

This is the sire: http://www.bloodhorse.com/stallion-register/sr_sire_page.asp?refno=4335726&origin=link

[vineyridge]

From the research that has been done at UC Davis, it's pretty clear that there is no single sabino gene in TBs. That's different from other breeds where there is a single gene. In TBs, it's a complex that is also closely connected to rabicano expression. So at this point, since we don't know what constitutes the complex and how it activates into expression, you really can't tell what you will get from lines that show minimal expression of the traits.

[JB]

What I'm still trying to figure out, though, is whether both parents have to carry the sabino gene for it to be expressed in the offspring.

Well, at least one parent has to be carrying some form of Sabino for the foal to get it, but how it's expressed, if at all, is the question. And that question has no answer ;)

It's more likely for a foal to have expression of Sabino if both parents carry it, but still no guarantee.

[vineyridge]

I take it you're in the Jockey Ridge camp for the Derby. :D

[LaurieB]

Thanks for the reply, JB!

I take it you're in the Jockey Ridge camp for the Derby. :D

Well...him and Court Vision, http://www.pedigreequery.com/court+vision

Seeing either one do well would be fine with me. :yes:

[vineyridge]

Court Vision is way at the top of everyone's list. He's very close kin to your foal to be, isn't he. :winkgrin:

C V is due to start in the Fountain of Youth next (?) month, and that will be his first test since last year. Be interesting to see if he can carry his two year old success through to 3.

[LaurieB]

Court Vision is way at the top of everyone's list. He's very close kin to your foal to be, isn't he. :winkgrin:

C V is due to start in the Fountain of Youth next (?) month, and that will be his first test since last year. Be interesting to see if he can carry his two year old success through to 3.

CV is out of my mare's dam's half-sister--but not related to Broken Vow, who's the sire of the prospective foal. And yes, I'll really be interested to see how he does this year. It looks like he's bred to go the Derby distance. :)

[LaurieB]

Well, I got my answer a lot sooner than I expected. The foal was born early this morning, a chestnut filly with a small star. She's totally adorable and has huge ears. :D

http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h245/LaurienB/Filly-1-27-08.jpg

[raffey1]

She's absolutely lovely-- congratulations! :)

[clint]

She is adorable! Congratulations.:D

[vineyridge]

WOW!
She's just beautiful.
Congratulations!
More pictures, please, as she gets older.

[LaurieB]

Thanks guys! We're thrilled with her. I'll see if I can get some pictures outside sometime in the next few days. :)

[Honu]

Aww! She is so cute! Congrats on such a nice filly, Broken Vow is one of my favorite studs!

[alliekat]

Congrats what a doll!!!!

[DressageOPhobia]

I have a Routinier 07 Filly,,,,she has a spot on her muzzle and a sock,,,,I suspect she has a sabino gene as routinier is a sabino,,,,what do you think?