Broodmares - in a soft market

[TrueColours]

like we are experiencing right now, are you better off to leave them open?

Cull them and try and find a different career for them (if age and soundness levels allow that to happen)?

Breed them and hope the market turns around by the time they foal out, especially if you own the stallion and wont have stud fees, collection and shipping charges to contend with?

We have so few mares that we breed each year anyhow, its not a dilema for us at all and the market has traditionally been strong for us each year (and hopefully that will continue going forward as well! :) ) - but what about those more commercial breeders with 5-20 or 30 mares they look at breeding each year, or those that do own 1-5 mares but buy outside breedings for them each year?

Carrying open broodmares isnt a smart plan and especially so if they are getting on in years, but neither is producing foals that may not have a market for many years to come.

What is the smartest plan and one that will cause the least amount of long term pain for the breeder involved? Breed a nice mare to a top stallion or sit back and wait and see what happens and carry the open mare(s) instead??? :confused:

[not again]

We give our mares two chances to get in foal. And don't go to extremes with that effort with veterinary intervention, reducing costs and increasing herd fertility. And expensive/complicated mare to get in foal may produce a daughter with the same issues. If a mare has a problem foaling she may also get a year off. While the market is soft for lower end horses it is still hot in the middle and top.

[camohn]

I supposed it depends on what is IN your herd. I was up to 6 at one point and for a variety of reasons (soft market, hubby grumpy about too many horses and loss of our stallion/I can't afford to breed 6 to outside stallions) so we cut back. I had 3 older, 1 middle age and 2 younger mares. The 3 younger ones went. First of all the younger ones were more marketable than old ladies! 2 younger ones were not producing as well as I would like and were sold. The middle aged one (will be 15 in 2008) is leased out with option to purchase and I still have the 3 old ladies. The old ones are my best mares but breeding wise it is risky that I will soon just have 3 retired mares! The 22 YO is in foal for an April baby/this will be her last and she WILL be retired, one 18 YO that is in foal and another 18 YO TB got a bad stifle pull in a pasture accident/could not be live covered and I was going to breed her to a TB.
By the time Junior is old enough to breed all my mares will probably be retired...unless the leased mare comes back and at that point even she will be 17! I do in fact have 2 younger mares I retained for myself as riding horses. They are 2 and 6 this year....but I am keeping a couple not knocked up to ride! The 2 YO I may breed just once next year at 3 and then ride her for a while.

[Rendaivu]

I just have two mares so I don't know that it affects us as much. Especially since we are not breeding to make money, but to improve our herd and produce some nice sport horses. Plus I just love babies :)

[pinecone]

Carrying open broodmares isnt a smart plan and especially so if they are getting on in years, but neither is producing foals that may not have a market for many years to come.

I'd rather see people leave broodmares open than risk breeding for foals they won't be able to sell. It really makes me crazy when people breed a mare just so she has a 'job'.

If people aren't breeding something nice and in demand, I'd recommend waiting, unless they're breeding for themselves.

[imajacres]

Well, I have a few mares I will breed this year, and the others that I dont want to breed will be recips for the ETs. This way they are helping out, and the ETS are getting born! I have 2 embryos from last year, and have a mare this year that I will breed for ET, so she will need a recip mare as well.
As well, two of my mares have always been leased out to different people, so if they are once again leased out, that is great, if not, they will be in the recip band for 2008/09.
For me, a max of 4 foals for 2009, and since all those embryos are waiting, the math is pretty well done.
This is my way of cutting back.

[Hocus Focus]

I think the low end market has a lot to offer. Low end if you are buying. Higher end if you are selling. If you have a skillful eye for good horseflesh, they might possibly be one and the same. There will always be a buyer for a good horse, high end or low end in how you acquire. That is not a mystery. Nlt meaning to raise hairs among the posters but the truth is the truth. Broodmares are not outside this line of thinking.

A soft market is a good time to shop IMO.

[Sassenach]

I'd rather see people leave broodmares open than risk breeding for foals they won't be able to sell. It really makes me crazy when people breed a mare just so she has a 'job'.

If people aren't breeding something nice and in demand, I'd recommend waiting, unless they're breeding for themselves.

If the mare didn't catch/was left open I'd much rather see her stated under saddle (if she wasn't saddle-broke already) and ridden at least until next year and try again. That way she will 'have a job' and be more marketable if you do have to sell her.

[camohn]

I'd rather see people leave broodmares open than risk breeding for foals they won't be able to sell. It really makes me crazy when people breed a mare just so she has a 'job'.

If people aren't breeding something nice and in demand, I'd recommend waiting, unless they're breeding for themselves.


But when you have old mares (over 16) there is also the issue that if you don't keep them in foal they might be done. Younger mares that is not really an issue.

[TrueColours]

But when you have old mares (over 16) there is also the issue that if you don't keep them in foal they might be done.

Thats exactly the dilema, isnt it?

[Walnut Farm]

it is kind of funny for me, but in the 10 years + I have been breeding in the US, I keep hearing the marked is soft? I have sold all my foals (except for the few mares I wanted to keep). Same thing in Germany, but every year, every auction, the prices just gets higher and higher. So I always ask myself, what does soft mean? anyone care to explain? (and yes, I know this last week was horrible on the stock marked.....but other than that?)

Sorry, I am breeding like always. I love trying to produce better horses and the foals. Besides, from now until ready is 3 years! what if this fall, the marked is STRONG? I think breeding is such a long term "investement" on so many levels.

Sincerely

[camohn]

it is kind of funny for me, but in the 10 years + I have been breeding in the US, I keep hearing the marked is soft? I have sold all my foals (except for the few mares I wanted to keep). Same thing in Germany, but every year, every auction, the prices just gets higher and higher. So I always ask myself, what does soft mean? anyone care to explain? (and yes, I know this last week was horrible on the stock marked.....but other than that?)

Sorry, I am breeding like always. I love trying to produce better horses and the foals. Besides, from now until ready is 3 years! what if this fall, the marked is STRONG? I think breeding is such a long term "investement" on so many levels.

Sincerely
The high end market, like race horses, is pretty insulated. For the lower to middle market it is more suceptible to the stock market and feed prices. When there is a recession (not really an issue at present too badly) horses are an un-needed luxury. When there is a drought and hay prices skyrocket (like 2007 in the southern part of the US) then folks do start dumping horses on the market cheap because they can't afford 8 dollars or more a bale for hay. Between horses being sold cheap due to feed issues and folks down south not buying much for the same reason it does depress sale prices. One broodmare I moved along was a Paint. For a Paint she had a SUPER pedigree. But in spite of the fact she was 87% TB she was producing babies that were too "stocky" for me. A Paint race breeder in GA wanted her. She had a 2 YO mostly TB filly my hubby (polo dude) loved and she was maturing a bit smaller than she wanted. We traded. So....barter worked for me there.....but most of the folks I know with less pricey foals in VA and south are taking less than they wanted for horses because of the hay issue. There have been years I sold every foal by weaning. That has not happened for a couple years lately here. I now did just sell the last foal I have for sale at 2 1/2. I do have foals coming in the spring. I had none born in 2007. Overall I am taking a break for the next couple years until our stud colt is of breeding age.....short term scale back!

[Edgar]

"it is kind of funny for me, but in the 10 years + I have been breeding in the US, I keep hearing the marked is soft?"

Good point Linda! For some the market has been "soft" for a long time now, but it is usually the quality of the horse and marketing effort that is soft. Let's face it, no matter how the economy does, for most breeders it is hard to sell youngsters regardless

[camohn]

[QUOTE=Edgar;2953369

no matter how the economy does, for most breeders it is hard to sell youngsters regardless[/QUOTE]

There is truth to this too. There are folks that want to buy foals to raise up, but this was addressed in a post by Denny earlier in the year more or less titled "how to get buyers to buy young" and the consensus was that while there are some folks with farms willing to raise youngsters there are far more folks in boarding situations that simply are not going to pay board on a horse until it is of riding age. The market opens up a lot more once a horse is of riding age. I consider "youngsters" to be in the range of 3 and under....green to unbroke.

[traklover]

Well I am in process of downsizing period and reorganizing my broodmare band at the same time. I have two open mares for sale right now at very reasonable prices. Both are approved and proven broodmares that outproduce themselves.

I want to keep the WB filly out of my TB mare which is why I put Mom up for sale. She is approved in 4 WB registries....and no bites other than people who want to free lease her for a year.....which does not make sense for me.

I have offered them with prepaid breedings for 2008. I am hoping to sell them(or other sale horses I have) before it gets too far along into breeding season.

If not sold I will likley breed the TB mare with frozen semen I am getting and market her in foal. My trakenher will be put back into work and sold as a rider at an increased price if not sold in the next month or so.

As stallion owner true colours I would be tempted to breed the mare to your stallion if she is not sold in the next 60 days or so. Buyers might worry about breeding soundness when a stallion owner markets a mare open.

Good luck!

[Tiki]

I'm not really interested in selling foals anyway. It would have to be to a buyer who has proven foal-raising skills. I put a lot of time and effort into making them into 'good citizens' and I don't want to see them ruined by someone who is buying them solely on the cuteness factor. I will still be breeding this year, bringing them up, and starting them when the time comes. I do have some foals advertised, but I'd really rather wait until they're well under saddle and attractive to more buyers who will also be better able to deal with a trained horse than a youngster.