what is the economy meaning for your plans this year?

[pintopiaffe]

Are you cutting back? Keepin' on keepin' on? Breeding? Not breeding? Selling broodies?

I am really going in circles.

On the one hand, if I don't breed, I have no *chance* of income--and I'm still feeding them. OTOH, if I breed and don't sell, in 2 years, how bad are things going to be?

Precisely because the way things are, I've been offered a free, youngish but proven broodie (even have shipping taken care of ! ) but we all know there's no such thing as a 'free' horse. A year ago I'd have leapt at the opportunity... today I am very, very wary... :(

Hay, feed... the beep shortage this year...

OTOH, (not enough hands, I know!) my old girl is 21 this year... Lord knows how many years I've left in her... OTOH.... :lol: you know...

I still believe deeply in my mission statement, my goals and my horses. I just found out yesterday a 2yo I bred was 4th in the entire country last year for AWS! It's like just when I think "I'm done with this" something comes up that proves to me I am doing something *good* and worthwhile....

How "worried" are you?

[Ladybug Hill]

Well, I gave a nice broodmare away (to a great home). Wavering greatly on breeding my older broodmare--it would be her last chance anyway and I would really like to have the foal. I am not breeding any others (of my own). There is a custom foal being bred "for me"--I have first option to buy. I am considering selling another of my good mares. I would like to stay at 4 or 5 MAX. Not really looking to breed to sell at this point. Do need to sell one more at this point.

[goodmorning]

Well, I wanted to breed this year, to foal next summer in my nice new barn. I finally found a mare that I love, of course she is in foal and due to the economy they only want to sell her in foal (too many mouths to feed, etc). I will be moving, constructing my farm, starting a new job, showing my horse, and there is just no time/space/extra $$ for a mare & foal combo. So, it looks like I will be waiting 'til next year...I really wanted to breed one this summer, but I'd be doing it for a keeper - and I'm not willing to budge in my quest for a great mare :sigh:

This isn't my profession, and overextending myself financially for a hobby isn't going to happen. I'll just have to wait :yes: Some friends are still breeding, and the University breeding program is always in full-swing, so I can at least help some others and continue to educate myself for when the timing is right.

[TrueColours]

We are cautiously optomistic that we will do well this year in both our foal sales as well as our breeding to outside mares ...

My Puchi Trap 2008 foal is sold in utero to Scotland. We also have several people interested in the 2009 and 2010 foals - all overseas buyers - and I am wavering as to whether I want all of these foals to go overseas or not, so verdict is still out on that one ... It seems like the economy is healthy enough overseas that any downturn here isnt affecting those sales ...

The Shastan 2008 foal I have had several in utero enquiries on and hope to sell that one before it is born

The Pearlescent foals for 2009 and 2010 I have several in utero enquiries on and as well, several people interested in purchasing eggs from her before she is bred as well

If we opt to do an ET breeding with my Faux Finish mare for 2008, we have had numerous people interested in purchasing those foal(s) so weighing the options of going that route with her and which stallion we would select for her, so that she can continue her show career and have a foal or two on the way as well

And I am confident enough that 2008/2009 will be healthy enough that I purchased one more mare and am looking at leasing another. I hope that my predictions are correct ... :)

And finally I bought a colt by my stallion from my client, that I will be showing here for a bit in 2008 before sending him down to my handler in PA to show and sell for me later on in the year

So I dont feel 2008 will be a fabulous year but I do feel it should be a good solid year at least ...

[Awesomesporthorses.com]

I am a new breeder with just starting breeding in the last couple years and purchasing my own stallion (Friesian) 2006 which has helped with the breeding costs.

I have purchased some mares to move towards my goals in my breeding program and will have to let go of some of my mares I feel have less to offer. It takes time to consider what is the best move in this market as it looks dim for the lower end horses espcially the stock horses and trail horses.

I occasionally go to horse sales just to "see" different horses and sadly have seen several foals and older horses not get even one bid. I watched two lovely sorrel QH foals fetch $25 each. Sigh.

Anyway, it seems that the dressage market is still strong. It isn't meerly to produce a foal but to market it with photos, video and words. IF I have done my job, it seems many buyers are sold on the horse before they even call. It is slow but I get inquiries of one per day on one or the other of my horses. I understand that in the "old days" it was much easier to sell a quality baby for good money and sell them fast. It seems it isn't like that anymore.

I am staying optimistic for spring as that is generally my best time of year. If I can sell my 2006 and 2007 foals this year, I will feel successful.

I am willing and able to own them until the end, if needed though and that gives me much comfort.

I am just trying to quell my nervous husband now! Any ideas on this one?

Kari

[STF]

Im cutting back some. I can always go buy more when money is better. (Or that is what I tell myself!)

[rideagoldenpony]

My plan is to breed a few less. I think. But not for economy or space reasons, but rather to take a bit of a break, as my son will be a senior in the fall of '08, and I'd like to have time for a family vacation in '09, etc.

That being said, sales are moving along quite nicely here, as are bookings. In fact, I may cut off the bookings early this year -- I haven't quite decided yet how much I want to kill myself for this breeding season. Remains to be seen.

Inquiries are rolling in on unborn foals (we don't do in utero sales), and on babies that I have no current plans on selling....

I think that certain markets (ie higher quality) are still alive and well. It is the lower end of the horse market that is suffering. However, IMO, it is a wonderful time for all breeders to take a step back and evaluate what they are doing, and plan accordingly.

I was just discussing this with my husband tonight -- what we will keep/sell of our current mares/fillies in the coming couple of years. We've really sold down almost everything that does't fit my current goals, and now are almost to the point where we will need to define who among our broodmares are the "best of the best" -- as at this point, I am truly delighted with every single one..... hard decisions.....

[can't re-]

I think that certain markets (ie higher quality) are still alive and well. It is the lower end of the horse market that is suffering. However, IMO, it is a wonderful time for all breeders to take a step back and evaluate what they are doing, and plan accordingly.

I agree! I think with the weak USD the horse market for the higher end horses shouldn't take too bad of a hit.

I'm just doing what I do every year, trying to make the best breeding decisions. Though that means retiring an older mare who's paid her dues. And I am offering one mare for sale, as I really only want 2-3 foals a year. I am looking forward to bringing along my undersaddle babies and getting them to the shows.

[Daydream Believer]

Due to promotional efforts, it seems like demand is increasing for our Colonial Spanish horses...my sales are up dramatically...so I'm going to breed about six mares this year...up one from this year but less than two years ago...so I'm slowing down a bit but optimistic that our "niche" market will be OK. Even though technically we fall into that lower price range...we seem to be able to differentiate our horses and make them desirable. Also some of our larger breeders are slowing down and hopefully smaller crops in our breed of higher quality and good marketing, and we'll see at least a steady increase in prices and demand.

I probably won't haul anywhere near as much this year though as I did last year..or not as far. No trips out west and the two big venues I'll try to hit are Kentucky Horse Park and the Equine Affaire in Mass again. We are hoping to hit more recognized shows instead with our stallion and will use that as more promotion.

We are also hosting the Horse of the America's annual meeting at our farm in October and that will be plenty to keep me busy for a while!

[TrueColours]

Due to promotional efforts, it seems like demand is increasing for our Colonial Spanish horses...my sales are up dramatically

Good for you! :)

You have always had such a wonderful, niche market - specialized - breeding program! :)

[Iron Horse Farm]

Unfortunately, it is the responsible breeders of higher end horses that cut back. If we could only convince the back yard breeders of fugly unregistered horses to cut back then we would really have acomplished something!

[Oldenburg Mom]

Unfortunately, it is the responsible breeders of higher end horses that cut back. If we could only convince the back yard breeders of fugly unregistered horses to cut back then we would really have acomplished something!

I am PROBABLY not going to breed anything this year. (What, like I have twenty broodmares and have been breeding for 25 years. :rolleyes: NOT!!! :lol:) But I will not breed if I cannot maintain the produce. What if the baby is born with just enough problems to make it unsaleable. I would never just "dump" what I've bred ... then breed more. If I can't afford to take care of something I bred—for life—then I'm not breeding. I like to think I'm being responsible.

Anyway, My first foal was easily sold, to an exceptional home. I am expecting again this year ... and I think the baby will be very very nice. I'm hoping anyway. But really, I think that's it for me. Reading about the endless rescues on off course has pricked my conscience. And of course, my biggest nightmare is...a baby I bred and loved ends up going to slaughter. Or worse, beaten and/or unloved. It can happen to the best of horses—there's never any guarantee.

I just couldn't live with myself if that happened. *sigh* At the moment, I'm just hoping I can outlive the horses I have! Hope hope hope hope.

[Iron Horse Farm]

I am PROBABLY not going to breed anything this year. (What, like I have twenty broodmares and have been breeding for 25 years. :rolleyes: NOT!!! :lol:) But I will not breed if I cannot maintain the produce. What if the baby is born with just enough problems to make it unsaleable. I would never just "dump" what I've bred ... then breed more. If I can't afford to take care of something I bred—for life—then I'm not breeding. I like to think I'm being responsible.

Anyway, My first foal was easily sold, to an exceptional home. I am expecting again this year ... and I think the baby will be very very nice. I'm hoping anyway. But really, I think that's it for me. Reading about the endless rescues on off course has pricked my conscience. And of course, my biggest nightmare is...a baby I bred and loved ends up going to slaughter. Or worse, beaten and/or unloved. It can happen to the best of horses—there's never any guarantee.

I just couldn't live with myself if that happened. *sigh* At the moment, I'm just hoping I can outlive the horses I have! Hope hope hope hope.

OM - no one would ever lump you into the BYB category!!!!!

[jparkes]

We are cutting back as well this year, plus we're moving the farm into a new direction. Will still have four to five mares bred to one of our two remaining boys.

This will open up ground on our farm to work it in a way to where we can become more self-sufficient. The orchard has been planned and willl be planted early spring, the greenhouse and nursery will take out one of the current pastures in hopes this will bring in income as it will eventually become a CSA farm. Something we can do well into our retirement years.

A few horses, a few cows, pigs, chickens, etc. This will keep the horses fed when the market is down for them, as the demand will increase for organically raised crops and meat.

Still pursuing the dream, just scaling back a little, with new dreams added!

[Daydream Believer]

Good for you! :)

You have always had such a wonderful, niche market - specialized - breeding program! :)

Thanks! :)

[krfarms]

A few years ago I sold off most of my stock. Now I have only 3 mares (all three are premium) one gelding I will never sell -he is my current show horse and my husband can ride him in a pinch. And I have only one yearling--and the jury is out on him. In my area it is really hard to sell anything until they are 4 years old. Fate seems to take over and for one reason or another I usually only end up with one foal per year , a filly out of my best mare.- So by this time next year, I think the two older broodmares will be retired and given to a good friend who owns fabulous stallions and if she can get a few more babies out of the mares, more power to her, and I will have 2 daughers to carry on.

[camohn]

I have been cutting back but not so much because of the economy as due to the loss of our stallion. Can't afford to breed a lot of mares to outside stallions in terms of both stud fees and vet bills. No point in feeding 6 broodmares that I can't afford to breed. And we have a new stud colt but he is only a yearling...won't be breeding anything for a while yet. Plus hubby will be happier if I cut back. SO...I still have my 3 old ladies and sold the 3 younger/more saleable ones. (Well....sold 2 and traded one for a polo pony for the hubby! so we are really down 2 bodies....but he can't complain since the third body is now his!). Fortunately we grow our own hay or it would be a much bigger issue with feed prices and only 1 of 12 (soon to be 11...sold one yesterday) is a hard keeper so our grain prices are not toooo bad...about 400. a month for 12 horses.

[Etcher1]

Way less breeding, and definite downsizing. I only plan on getting two of my mares bred, and offspring will be retained. Hopefully we will be going from the 23 we have now to at the most, 8, hopefully less.

Nonhorsewise, less traveling, although most of the traveling we do is horse-related(Shows, sales, etc etc), but that will definitely be cut in half.

[EqTrainer]

Well, it's not breeding, but this is the first year I have not had a rescue horse :( because of the drought and hay prices. I feel awful about it, but would feel worse of course if I had one and could not feed it.

I also will not be buying any young projects this year (resist! resist!) for the same reasons and also that I think the horse market is not going to improve for quite some time. We still have two nice horses to sell and I am enjoying them.. but after they sell, no more. At least for awhile. I swear!:winkgrin:

[shawneeAcres]

Many things going on with this, definitely thinking about getting out of the breeding business altogether. I ahve two nice coming two year olds and a weanling by my stallion. I am definitley breeding back a 19 year old hanoverian mare to him as I suspect that may be her last foal, and she is bred to anotehr stlalion for 2008 and I REALLY want one by my stallion out of her. My TB mare, I am undecided on but if I don't breed her, not at all sure waht to do with her, as I suspect she is unrideable (she had a back injury off the track but SEEMS to be over it, but again has not had any work for about 3 years). My grey 1/2 TB 1/2 app mare that I used to ride and show had a foal year before last and is not bred, but did want another foal out of her, but again, not sure I will do it this year, she is only 14 so some time there. My stallion, what to do with him??!! If I could find someone wanting to either buy or lease him I would do so, BUT with the agreement he continues to be ridden and compete in some discipline. He is too young and too nice to be relagated to only breeding. The otehr option is to gelding him but I also hate to do that! His dressage is truly becoming so lovely. Wish there was a person that wanted a nice talented hrose to ride, I'd let them take him and even pay for his competitions! Oh well, I am riding him some now, but just don't have the time to keep him going as much as he needs and cannot afford to keep him with a trainer. Have been struggling over this for about 6 months now. My other areas of the business, teaching, boarding and marketing are really starting to take off so have to concentrate on that as it brings in the income! We have actually been thinking about going into raising low cholesterol/fat beef!

[pintopiaffe]

Shawnee... put the word out. The situation you describe *wanting* for your boy is exactly what I have with mine--I'm the rider/trainer. He came for a breeding for training swap lease... he's never left. ;) The right person is out there, just *dying* for a ride that they mightn't otherwise be able to afford...

[springer]

I hesitate to breed my mare again this year. Originally I had planned on breeding her back to Balta Czar (since her 2007 filly turned out so lovely) while she's still breed-able (She's 21 this year) but with the horse market the way it is, (and also being in an area of the country where people don't spend 10K on a young horse- or any horse for that matter :) ) Correct me if I'm wrong!!!!!!

[Oldenburg Mom]

OM - no one would ever lump you into the BYB category!!!!!

*blush* Yeah, I don't breed enough to qualify for the BYB category. But thanks anyway, IHF. That was very sweet of you ... assuming it was a compliment!!! :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

[talloaks]

OM - no one would ever lump you into the BYB category!!!!!

What ever is BYB category??? All I know BYB to mean is bring your own boose!!:confused:

[clint]

What ever is BYB category??? All I know BYB to mean is bring your own boose!!:confused:

Back Yard Breeder

[pintopiaffe]

Back Yard Breeder... :uhoh:

Which I definitely am. I walk out the sliding glass door, and *bam* there they are. In the backyard. I don't even OWN a lawnmower, I simply gate off the driveway and let them trim every few weeks... :lol:

I'd *like* to thing when the term is used derogatorally, it is about indiscriminate breeding. The "oh, she's lame, so let's breed her", or "gee, that stud colt sure is purdy, let's just turn him out with old Buttons and see what happens." Types.

But I suppose with two stallions & two mares, I am a BYB.

[talloaks]

Back Yard Breeder


Thanks, guess I sure am slow if I couldn't figure that one out!! DUH!:o

[misita]

I'm doing custom foals this year for the 2009 crop. My mares have to be in-contract for me to breed them. Buyers get to choose the mare and the stallion they want her bred to.

Even though I've sold most of my en-utero babies for the 2008 foal crop, I've very nervous about the ecomony and don't want to make babies I may not be able to sell. I know that means I'll have to feed all my horses without an income from the horses, but I also know I can afford to take care of the horses I have now. I'd rather be safe than sorry.

[tri]

I will have two more foal this year but I won't breed for next year. I have a home bred 4 year old to start campaigning this year and will have another turning 3yrs to start campaigning next year. That will keep me busy for a bit along with the two new foals.

[Cold Spring Farm]

Geesh -- why I am answering this on a day where world markets are plunging, the Dow starts the day down over 400 points (but hey, it's already back "up" to only being down 200 points!! Yeah!!) but of course, that's after coming down 2,000 pts over the last two months!! That, combined with some other interesting news coming out today have me more convinced than ever that it's going to take a long while to turn this boat around......

So -- now that I have THAT off my chest.... I am expecting one out of my Hano mare, by an Arab stallion, in a few months. Bred for ME, not for sale. Will go ahead and use a Fabuleux breeding that I have on my GOV Arab mare....also most likely to be kept for me....and then I am thinking "no more" for a while. Just ride and enjoy. All the indicators, plus the huge over saturation of the horse market, make it hard to justify adding more.


Waaaa Waaaa....yes -- I AM Debbie Downer today!! (VERY unlike me. So, I'll go get a chi tea latte and get over it!)

[tri]

Personally I think everything is media created. Do you realize that we have had record highs on the stock markets and some of the best economy in ages for the last few years??

Even as the housing markets were actually up, the media barely breathed a word of it but just kept hammering away at the "possibility" of a downturn, until, yes, maybe it is happening a little bit. In my area, December 2007 housing was up with more units sold at a higher average price than Dec. 2006, but do you see anything in the media about it? No.

[Oldenburg Mom]

I worked on Wall Street for 13 years, tri. In brokerage ... the front lines, so to speak. While rumor and innuendo are certainly rampant, there is little doubt that quarterly earnings reports are not created by the media...nor is their impact on markets: lower earnings equal a smaller dividend, ipso facto, stock price declines.

As far as the housing market, national home starts are down 25%. These are NATIONAL, not regional/local markets. WASHINGTON — The prolonged slump in housing pushed construction of new homes in 2007 down by the largest amount in 27 years with the expectation that the downturn has further to go.

The Commerce Department reported Thursday that construction was started on 1.353 million new homes and apartments last year, down 24.8 percent from 2006. It was the second biggest annual decline on record, exceeded only by a 26 percent plunge in 1980, a period when the Federal Reserve was pushing interest rates to post-World War II records in an effort to combat an entrenched inflation problem.

And that's all I'll say because it's not horse related.

[tri]

Yes, they are now down. But they were actually up and at record highs for months and months and months while the media continued to sweep that info under the carpet and report the "potential" and a "forcasted" and a "possible" downturn. They barely mumbled the news of the record highs or the "surprise" INCREASES and only concentrated on "projected" bad outcomes until, yes, now after the nation has been hammered on only FALSE bad news, here we are.

Yes, it is media induced. The stock market is still much much higher than it ever was during the so-called WONDERFUL Clinton years as is most other economic indexes.

As the economy does have an effect on discretionary income hobbies such as equestrian sports, this is on topic especially for this thread.

[quietann]

I am not a breeder, but I am horse-shopping right now and finding a LOT of nice mares for sale in my chosen breed (Morgans). I suspect people are selling because breeding them in the current economy just makes no sense. Pricing is usually in the $7K to $15K range and there's a premium for a mare that is saddle or harness trained and has some sort of performance record.

One thing YOU can do for your broodies is be sure they are trained and rideable. It's much easier to sell them that way.

As for the housing issue... it came up long before the media picked up on it. Up through sometime last year, the papers were going on about the strong housing market, even though it had already started to turn (remember that real estate is a major part of ad sales for most papers). There's been a lot of CRAZY mortgages written, things like interest-only, no proof of income required, scary ARMs, people using home equity to splurge on more lifestyle than they could afford, etc. Not to mention some outright fraud on the part of brokers, who live by commission. It's a classic "bubble" situation when the cost of renting a house can be 50% less than the cost of owning it!

The fallout from this, as has already been mentioned, hits the horse industry hard, because horses are really and truly luxuries.

[tri]

As has been reported - really only whispered about - in the mainstream media, the mortgage situations that you are describing represent ONLY 1% of the total market. That is 1%, should I say it again, 1%.

The media reported it like the little red hen and the sky was falling. It is a crying shame.

[county]

Were not changing anything will breed the same number of mares of our own but so far it looks like there will be fewer outside mares to breed. Of course that can change fast and some years does. Will still show the same amount also.

[Horsecrazy27]

I haven't bred for 4 years due to boarding the horses and it just wasn't smart business to make more to pay to keep. SO, with our house/barn getting done, we are breeding this year. I'm hoping to sell 2 though this summer to make room for the new ones. I'm either breeding 2 or 3. One would be for me--the other 2 would be for sale. I'm sure hoping the market gets better.