View Full Version : What qualities in an Endurance/CTR prospect? And how much is that worth?
Jan. 17, 2008, 06:00 PM
I am giving up trying to fit a square peg into a round hole. I have an Appendix QH mare that I have been attempting to event for the past two years. I say attempt, because while she is fan-tab-u-lous out on XC, she hates-hates-hates to be in a ring- whether it is flatwork or jumping in a ring, she is tense, rushes, grinds her teeth (and YES, I have explored just about every pain route I can think of), gets "stuck" and "bounces"- kind of the precursor to bucking/ rearing, which she knows better than to try, but is definitely letting me know how she feels about being in that ring. In the ring she is generally an unhappy camper- and it is in no way fun for me either. We have done OK in eventing because she never refuses a jump, but she will never be competitive because her dressage is quite frankly, terrible.
BUT BUT BUT
She is awesomely awesome on trails. I do a lot of hacking and conditioning and she is mellow, relaxed, bright and interested, and generally a lot of fun to ride out on. She can go FOREVER. She doesn't spook at dogs, coyotes (we saw one just the other day!), mountain bikes, ditches, water...I hack her on the roads and cars/trucks/ bikes/ motorcycles all good.
She is a sweetie pie on the ground and an easy keeper. Can be a bit of a drama queen, but she handles all the "stuff" with competing very well- loading, shipping, getting off the trailer in a new place and being fine with it (as long as there is not a ring involved :D)
I ~think~ she could be a good endurance horse, but in reality I have no idea what endurance riders look for.
I like the horse a lot, but I want to event. And even more importantly, and maybe I am becoming more "zen" out here in Cali :lol:, I am realizing it's only fair to let HER do something that she likes. Why make both of us miserable? And now that I am boarding in an expensive area and don't have them cheaply at my own place, where I could keep on trying with her, it has become clear to me that it is no longer sensible for me to keep on keepin' on with trying to make her "accept" the ringwork that comes with eventing. It's just too much money for me to keep a trail horse at this place (NOTHING wrong with doing only trail riding, it's just not MY focus- hope that makes sense and is not offensive! :))
SO: does she sound like a reasonable endurance prospect? And how much would that be worth?
Jan. 17, 2008, 06:05 PM
I tried to edit my post but it was taking too long... the reason I am asking what she might be worht in the CTR/ Endurance market, is that I don't know that market AT ALL. I have a good idea what she'd be worth in the eventing market, but I want to be very upfront with anyone that she's NOT happy in a ring no matter how good of a jumper she is. The foxhunting market might be another avenue for her too...
Anyway I would like to price her reasonably for the market I think she would be suited for, and price her well enough that she'll hopefully move fairly quickly- once I make a decision, I make a decision!
Jan. 17, 2008, 06:14 PM
got to have good feet
Jan. 17, 2008, 06:29 PM
I look at a lot of horse sales ads and on the east coast area there are many horses such as yours in the 3 to 5K range. Now with her training, health, and looks she might go to 7K of higher. The main thing is that she is not a proven foxhunter (a good foxhunter is priceless and would go for much higher), and has not done any CTR or endurance competitions. If you want a better price you need to take her to some events so she is a proven competitor. Not many people who want to get into endurance are going to look at a quarter horse as their first choice. She sounds like a wonderful horse! I wish both of you the best of luck.
Jan. 17, 2008, 07:24 PM
Forget endurance -- she's not marketable there. Period. Maybe CTR but ...the market in that discipline is painfully thin for QHs. And probably not anywhere near the money you would want for her.
She's actually an Appendix, so half TB. And she is very typey TB, in fact almost everyone assumes she's full TB. Although I don't think TB's are very sought after in endurance either; assuming Arabians have the majority share in that market? I actually thought the QH side of her would be appealing to endurance (and would have downplayed her TB-iness) but I guess not!
I could take her out foxhunting myself and have thought about doing that. Something we can both have fun at instead of fighting in the ring! But it is just my impression that in my area (Southern California) there are MANY more trail riders/ endurance/ CTR than foxhunters; in fact I only know of one hunt out in Temecula. So I was thinking I'd have more potential buyers in the trail/endurance market.
Jan. 17, 2008, 07:55 PM
As an endurance, horse there would be no market for her. Most people only want a horse that has done it before. If they want a horse that hasn't done it, they can usually find some young Arabian dirt cheap, at least in my area. I just bought a very experienced Anglo-Arab, a much more ideal endurance horse, and paid 3500 for her. So.... unless the horse is actually doing well in endurance, you won't get much for her on that market.
Jan. 18, 2008, 12:41 PM
Oh, she'll definitely hunt, of that I have no doubt! And I think I will take her out and try to cap a few times in Temecula. I like to foxhunt.
But, and maybe I'm naive, I still think she could do endurance too. And I say that not knowing that much about it so maybe she can't.... but can someone please tell me what qualities are looked for in an endurance horse (leaving aside breed considerations for now)?
I was thinking last night about this, and I think it would be fun (for me and her!) to take her to an endurance ride or two. There are newbie eventers coming on all the time to ask for advice, so can y'all take pity on a newbie endurance rider and give me some tips? :) Who knows, maybe I will like this so much that I'll end up keeping her after all and getting involved in yet another sport! I wouldn't mind keeping her to foxhunt and do endurance while continuing to focus on my very promising 4-yr old in the event world.
I'm assuming 25 miles is the "novice" level. I'm guessing that is roughly 3-4 hours riding? Which would be on the outside edge of the length of rides I've done with her in the past few months, but she can do it. I'm allowed to get off and run next to her, right? Anything other basic things I need to know? Endurance is as much about completing with a sound, happy, healthy horse as it is about getting across the finish line first, am I right?
What are some good introductory endurance rides in the SoCal area?
Jan. 18, 2008, 01:42 PM
I don't think anyone is saying your mare can't do an endurance ride. As you'll see in the links below that most fit horses can complete a CTR/LD/ the difference is when someone wants to serious compete in a 50 or 100 endurance race. It all depends on how much you like the sport and how far you want to go with it. The peeps here are helpful and full of great information. Start with the links below (I hope I did it right) they have links in them to many other sites that will answer all your questions.
As to what characteristics make a good endurance horse - there was a thread on that too.
Jan. 18, 2008, 01:56 PM
Endurance people in general are notoriously cheap when it comes to purchasing horses, there are exceptions to that of course, like the folks that want to buy a horse that has been trained and maybe competed. I do know one person that only competes QTR horses, another couple of men that compete on TBs and one woman that swears by App/TB crosses. Often men have to go to another breed or crossbreds to find horses that are taller/bigger. This may be one way to market her, if she is over 15.2 hands. A very big issue for most folks is having a good, ground covering trot and tough feet that can stand up to the rocks while carrying their own weight and the rider. But do not be suprised to find the $$ to be lower than with hunt or ring folks. Still, there are a gazillion of trail riders out there that don't compete but want a sane, trained horse to ride and camp with. Perhaps you could take her to an endurance trainer/facility for a week to be evaluated. If they like her it could go help sell her.
chicamuxen (riding an Arab/QTR cross, number 2)
Jan. 18, 2008, 03:37 PM
Here's a recent thread on the qualities of endurance horses: http://www.chronicleforums.com/Forum/showthread.php?t=124894
Jan. 18, 2008, 03:44 PM
Endurance people in general are notoriously cheap
I think this is generally what poeple are getting at :winkgrin: While she may make a wonderful endurance horse you will not get much $$ for her unless she has really gone out there and proven herself and even then....a friend paid $650 for her Pan Am/Tevis horse (Obviously prior to him competing :lol:) but my point is Arabs are generally the most competitive and are a dime a dozen.
If you want 5k and over for her then foxhunting may be a better avenue.
She sounds like a wonderful horse though :D:yes: and should be pretty easy to sell depending on what you want for her.
Jan. 18, 2008, 03:56 PM
I agree that anyone looking for an endurance horse is going to be looking for an Arab or Arab cross (or possibly even a gaited horse- they seem to be increasing in popularity especially for the older folks.) regardless of what the horse is like, a lot of people would just not even look at a QH or TB. And I agree with the cheap also!
I think the people who are doing distance riding with different breeds happened to have a QH / TB / whatever already and then gave distance a try.
The CTRs in CA are primarily NATRC ones- they are different from the CTRs back east- they are generally much slower and also have a focus on the horse's manners and your horsemanship. I know there are some NATRC rides in the San Diego and LA areas. An Appendix that was very well behaved might appeal to them.
I have done some endurance rides in SoCal, but only 50s. Descanso, just east of SD, in June is a fun wonderful ride! Generally speaking, the people who race / ride fast do 25s in about 3 hours and the slower people about 5 hours (this is riding time, not including the vet check.) I believe there is a NATRC ride in April too.
Actually, all the rides I have done in So Cal have been beautiful! Go check them out for sure!
Jan. 18, 2008, 04:33 PM
thanks everyone for the great advice and helpful links. I looked at some of the rides around me and they sound beautiful (although mostly 50's- maybe a lot to start out with the first time?)
Sounds like endurance riders have a similar mindset as a lot of eventers- find the cheap (arab/OTTB) and do-it-yourself. One of the linked threads had a comment about CTR being mostly at a walk... i AM an eventer after all, that sounds a little too...slow :D for me. AND for the mare! So I'll try an LD/ endurance ride. She is in super shape so I think it won't be a problem.
It all looks like a lot of fun to try a new thing. I am looking forward to comparing west-coast foxhunting to east-coast foxhunting. And I officially retired her from eventing as of this morning. I can't wait to tell her we never need to have another fight in the ring where she's outrageously pissed and I want to cry! Not fun at all! I will try some new things with her that look fun for both of us and que sera, sera. I'll sell her as a foxhunter, a trail horse, or I'll hang on to her. It's all part of my new ~zen~. CA seems to do that to people! :lol:
thanks again all!