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View Full Version : Question's about buying a mare in foal - with no desire to keep foal.....



goodmorning
Jan. 17, 2008, 03:53 PM
I am wondering if you guys could give me some advice....I'm looking at a mare for a broodmare prospect for hunter purposes, but she is currently in foal to a racing TB stallion. His fees are already paid ($3500). I really do not want this foal, I would like to take her after weaning. However, I could afford to buy her in foal to this stallion, but how on earth would I sell the resulting foal?! I have no racing contacts and don't want to end up with a racing baby running around my farm. Is there any way to calculate his worth prior to birth?

I am waiting to hear back from them, but as someone who knows little about the racing industry, I do not want to be taken for a ride and end up paying the whole purchase price, giving them the foal, and getting her after weaning. Would it be wise to come up with an agreed price for the foal and subract that from the purchase price? And who would be responsible for her bills prior to weaning? She is owned by a breeding farm, FWIW.

Thanks for reading....I just do not want to be taken for a ride or come off as having unreasonable requests :yes:

ETA: This mare is *not* expensive, and honestly I'm thinking that just taking the mare and allowing them to keep the resulting foal after weaning makes the most sense. But I'm just not sure if this is a reasonable request as I am not aware of TB foal pricing, or if they even want it...The mare herself only had 4 starts for 40k, and the stallion won 370k, if that makes any difference.

hipsdontlie
Jan. 17, 2008, 04:01 PM
do you know anything about her pedigree or who she is in foal to ?? many times the stallion owner/manager will make a deal with breeders to get mares to their stallion and they sometimes pay far less than the advertised fee. do you really want this mare in particular ??? there are a lot of mares out there. just look at the ocala breeders sales results.... there are mares in foal (with the fee paid) selling for nothing just as a point of reference. horse show diva dot com

SteeleRdr
Jan. 17, 2008, 04:10 PM
As another note, sometimes foaling can get complicated, so if something happens to the mare after you buy her and during foaling?? And then you have to give the foal back to the breeders.

It's a touch situation, just wanted to throw that scenario out there though.

It'd be nice to know more about the mare and stallion.

goodmorning
Jan. 17, 2008, 04:59 PM
I'm still waiting to hear back from the mare owner, and I'm a bit hesitant to blast her name over the web...She is by Sanglamore with Resless Wind and Sir Gaylord in there on th edams side...;)

The stallion she is in foal to is Captain Red.

I *really* like this mare. She is inexpensive, but she is great looking, has produced great looking babies, and I truly believe she would make a great hunter broodmare. She is big boned, built, and very attractive. Not to mention she has an amazing personality. I do need some additional information about her, but she fits the bill very nicely as a sporthorse broodmare.

Things may also be complicated because I do need a reproductive exam after she foals. She's due in March, so not too long. Would it be unreasonable to expect them to sell her to me prior to foaling, in return for the foal, pending a comprehensive breeding exam? I really wish she wasn't in foal this yer! Agghh She has been for sale for a few months, I've been keeping an eye on her ;)

Thanks for the replies so far, and I hope the additional info helps :)

SleepyFox
Jan. 17, 2008, 05:25 PM
What you may want to do is buy the mare in foal and offer to give the foal back to the sellers at weaning in exchange for you being listed as breeder and eligible for all breeders' awards. This is assuming she will foal in a state with good breeders' awards. Another option is to just give the foal away to a racing home upon weaning - again you keep the breeders' awards money. The only catch here is that the foal must be registered, and all nominations completed. In either of these scenarios, you are responsible for costs up until weaning, but you stand to make some money if the foal races and does well.

What you don't want to do is foal the mare and then not register the foal (this has happened to mares I have sold to sporthorse folks). If you miss the registration deadline, it becomes much more expensive to register the foal and you really decrease it's value.

Captain Red's first foals will (maybe) run as 2yos this year. If they do well, the foal will have some value (depending on the mare's quality). If they don't do well, the foal will have little value. Either way, unless his babies just blow everyone away, this probably isn't a highly valuable foal she is carrying, but it still might have some appeal as a low priced weanling sold privately (on salesring.com or equinenow.com, etc.).

ETA: it might be asking a lot to buy the mare pending a repro exam that will take place 2 months from now. If they don't sell her, they probably want to be able to make breeding plans for her themselves. Just something to think about.

goodmorning
Jan. 17, 2008, 05:29 PM
What you may want to do is buy the mare in foal and offer to give the foal back to the sellers at weaning in exchange for you being listed as breeder and eligible for all breeders' awards. This is assuming she will foal in a state with good breeders' awards.

She would be foaling in NY if I left her with the current breeders, which I would prefer to do because they are experienced TB breeders.

The breeding exam is a sticking point. She is 15 and I can not imagine breeding without one, even though she has never had an issue conceiving or in delivery. I would imagine with LC at least a culture would have to be done anyways? Or am I mistaken?

ASB Stars
Jan. 17, 2008, 08:09 PM
You know, if the foal is, at a minimum, 60% characteristics from the mare, you could be missing the boat, here. I'm not saying you are- I am just saying you might want to give this a bit more thought. The best horse I own is out of a mare who was carrying him when I bought her. :yes:

Just food for thought!

Norcrest
Jan. 17, 2008, 08:41 PM
Is Captain Red at Saratoga Glen Farm? If he is I saw him a year or so ago and really liked him. After seeing the foal you may want to keep it anyways. The question about the foal is the easy part, the breeding exam request is the hard part of the equation. If you buy her now, very few people will take her back if she fails a breeding exam after she foals.

goodmorning
Jan. 17, 2008, 09:03 PM
Yes this is the Captain Red from NY. I really like her colt by Regal Classic, he is gorgeous, but I can't find a decent conformation picture of Captain.

The foaling is 2 months away, she has been on the market for 5 months now. I'm getting the impression that they just want to get rid of her. Would it be best if I just spoke with the owner, offered to buy the mare after foaling pending a breeding exam, and risk someone else purchasing her in the meantime? And ask they just keep me in mind if anyone else calls in the meantime?

As much as I love this mare, I'm not sure I'm willing to risk buying a 15 yr old broodmare who can't carry full term. I've been looking for nearly a year for the perfect TB broodmare...WHY do things have to be so complicated!!!

Norcrest
Jan. 18, 2008, 07:57 AM
I would contact the seller and let them know of your interest and your concerns. Also contact Dan and Kathy at Saratoga Glen they may have other photos of Captain Red for you.

SleepyFox
Jan. 18, 2008, 08:06 AM
She would be foaling in NY if I left her with the current breeders, which I would prefer to do because they are experienced TB breeders.

The breeding exam is a sticking point. She is 15 and I can not imagine breeding without one, even though she has never had an issue conceiving or in delivery. I would imagine with LC at least a culture would have to be done anyways? Or am I mistaken?

NY has good breeders' awards.

A culture is not necessary on a foaling mare if you breed her back in a timely fashion. You'll only need a culture if she doesn't catch. With her foaling in March, only being 15, having no issues in her history and currently in foal, I don't see any red flags here. Of course, it's your decision, but just know the seller may be reluctant. Your idea of offering yourself as a backup might be a good idea.

summerhorse
Jan. 18, 2008, 05:01 PM
I would buy her and register and nominate the foal and sell it as a weanling. If nobody is interested then you can tell by his conformation and attitude if you might want to keep him as a sport prospect, sell him cheap or keep til yearling and sell. Because the stallion is "on the cusp" so to speak I'd try to sell him as a weanling before the stallion's foals flop. Of course they COULD come out running like Posse's did. BUT most stallions don't... It's a calculated risk and depends on how nice the foal is.

It is unreasonable IMO to expect them to hold the mare for you that long pending foaling and a breeding exam. If you really want her that means she's nice enough someone else might want her too! =) At any rate it sounds like they are pricing her to sell to whomever comes up with the moolah first.

You could maybe make a deal to get the mare for $3,000 and they have a half interest in the foal. You raise it and they sale prep it. Something like that.

goodmorning
Jan. 18, 2008, 05:54 PM
You could maybe make a deal to get the mare for $3,000 and they have a half interest in the foal. You raise it and they sale prep it. Something like that.

But what if the mare herself is not even $3000 ? ;)

I'm going to make an offer to buy the mare now, *not* pending an exam, I can take that risk, and they can just have the foal. They don't want the foal, but she has been on the market for a few months now and this will lessen the herd by at least one. Maybe that will provide some appeal? After speaking with the owner she is willing to let me look at the foaling notes/vet reports, has been very straitforward, and very helpful. I did have concerns because she did aborted once, but now that I know why, its a non-issue.

The real issue right now is that I'm living is a different state then where I will be living in July, which is where my farm is being built. It is not a good time for me to take on a youngster in the middle of construction/moving, starting my new job, etc. If I can take her after weaning, sometime at the end of the summer, everything would work out well. Honestly, I think if I were in the place to take in the mare and foal, I would, but the timing is just horrible.

I don't want to come off as asking too much, but I have been offered broodmare leases, just take the mare after weaning situations, so I figured it was at least worth contacting them. I'll let you know how it works out, either way, and thanks for all the kind replies.

RioTex
Jan. 18, 2008, 06:43 PM
As much as I love this mare, I'm not sure I'm willing to risk buying a 15 yr old broodmare who can't carry full term.
If she weren't carrying full-term, you wouldn't have the problem. Something could happen at foaling time to cause problems, but she seems to be able to carry right now.

crosscreeksh
Jan. 18, 2008, 09:38 PM
Just because the foal is "race bred" doesn't mean that's ALL he can do!! I bought an in foal mare out of a TB sale two years ago. 9 days later she had a fantastic "race bred" colt. He was 15.2 by the time he was 12 months old, a gorgeous looking fellow and a great mover. I sold the colt alone as a show prospect for 1 and 1/2 times what I paid for the bred mare! ...And I still have a lovely mare. At least when you buy a bred mare you know she CAN get pregnant. I would NEVER buy a barren broodmare!!!

Jaegermonster
Jan. 19, 2008, 10:53 PM
I wouldn't worry too much about the breeding soundness exam, obviously she is fertile and catches, and is almost to term. If you wait a few years before rebreeding, maybe, but I wouldn't sweat it now.
If she is as nice as you say, I would buy her and see how the foal turns out. Or you can wait til weaning and then buy her. If they haven't sold her yet they probably aren't going to.

summerhorse
Jan. 20, 2008, 09:16 PM
I guess I read the stud fee and my mind converted it to price. If the mare is much cheaper I would frankly wait and SEE the foal first. It may be quite nice as above and you can sell it for what you paid for both of them. Plenty of "race bred" horses are out there winning in the show ring or doing other things. Just make the first priority at your new farm a safe paddock and shelter for mare and foal! =)