For those intending to show 3rd or 4th level in the next two yrs:

[slc2]

There have been a lot of very astute comments here on qualification. Rebecca's research is really good, but it made me wonder about several things:

Do you currently have scores to meet the latest outline for qualification?

Would you anticipate needing to qualify by getting many lower scores, or fewer higher scores?

How many recognized shows can you attend in a year? (a number that's not a financial or time burden - 'can attend' means how many would you be willing to attend given your time, resources, etc).

How many recognized shows are there within a 2 hr drive of your barn?

[exvet]

Well I'm showing third 3 (2/qualifying tests) and fourth 1 next weekend.

Do you currently have scores to meet the latest outline for qualification? :yes:

Would you anticipate needing to qualify by getting many lower scores, or fewer higher scores? Not applicable

How many recognized shows can you attend in a year?

I go to a minimum of 4 recognized shows a year but I've gone to as many as 10 if I'm campaigning a particular horse, which includes breed shows recognized by USDF/USET. This year, though, I anticipate going to 5 or 6 due to financial constraints.


How many recognized shows are there within a 2 hr drive of your barn? A total of 2
I am located in Region 5.

[JRG]

Do you currently have scores to meet the latest outline for qualification?

Would you anticipate needing to qualify by getting many lower scores, or fewer higher scores?

How many recognized shows can you attend in a year? (a number that's not a financial or time burden - 'can attend' means how many would you be willing to attend given your time, resources, etc).

How many recognized shows are there within a 2 hr drive of your barn?

I plan on being in this group.....universe/horse willing in two years.



Currently I don't have the scores, I just started showing this horse late last fall.

I anticipate that I am going to need more shows with lower scores, I ride an off breed who is perfectly willing an capable to do the work but I know that all things being equal my scores will be tougher to get then if I was on a big lofty wb.

I plan on going to as many as needed to get my scores, I would like to do fewer rather then more. Finances will ultimately dictate that course of action.

I am fortunate enough to be in a show rich area, but if I were in an area where shows would be tough I would be in for a long haul.

Edited to add: I am in Region 1

[Badger]

There have been a lot of very astute comments here on qualification. Rebecca's research is really good, but it made me wonder about several things:

Do you currently have scores to meet the latest outline for qualification?

I debuted at third last year, went to two shows, and got my bronze, so I'm grandfathered under the proposed rule. I primarily event and don't think I have ever gone to more than two recognized dressage shows a year, and some years it is none. I've showed just enough to get medal scores, and I don't have enough 2nd level points to "qualify" under the proposal without going to more shows at 2nd.

Would you anticipate needing to qualify by getting many lower scores, or fewer higher scores?
At this point, I'm hoping to show fourth whenever I go back in the ring, so in theory the training is there and I would be able to get additional points at second be just doing 1-2 shows if I had to. But reality of the shows I went to in my horse's second level year and his third level year is: some classes will be cancelled by thunderstorms and/or tornadoes, flapping banners and high winds affect rides, and my horse can have yahoo moments that significantly effect a test from time to time. So even though he can put in a fine second level test, doing it on the day is not a given.

How many recognized shows can you attend in a year? (a number that's not a financial or time burden - 'can attend' means how many would you be willing to attend given your time, resources, etc).
One or two max.

How many recognized shows are there within a 2 hr drive of your barn?
Two or three.

[Dutch Girl]

Do you currently have scores to meet the latest outline for qualification?

I showed 2nd level all last season (6 shows) and I would fall a few points short of the 20 points needed to move up to 2nd level.

Would you anticipate needing to qualify by getting many lower scores, or fewer higher scores?

I would be trying for fewer higher scores.

How many recognized shows can you attend in a year? (a number that's not a financial or time burden - 'can attend' means how many would you be willing to attend given your time, resources, etc).

about 1 a month or 6 over the course of the season

How many recognized shows are there within a 2 hr drive of your barn?
2


My answers are in bold. I am in favor of this proposal even though if it were enacted right now I would need to show 2nd level some more. I feel fairly confident that I would be able to get the rest of the points I need pretty quickly because my mare has gotten a lot stronger and more supple since our last outing. I am in Region 4.

[NoDQhere]

Our rider is grandfathered in with the Gold Medal but we are still very much against the "Qualification proposal". Even more so after reading Rebecca's statistics. Where are all those 30% rides:confused:?

There is ONE show within 2 hours of us :no: and last year it was canceled :mad:. Our next closest show is 6-7 hours (providing the HP are on break:lol:) And it gets longer from there. We plan to travel a long ways to attend 6 to 8 shows this year. Some of the shows are double shows. Wish there were more of those with the price of diesel.

We are in Region 4, waaaaaay over on the western side so sometimes go to a Region 5 show or two.

[slc2]

If possible, please include your (dressage) region in your responses.

[AnotherRound]

I don't show at these levels, so my answers don't count, but, I am curious why you're asking, slick - since you don't ride dressage.

[CatOnLap]

I too wondered why a person who doesn't show has such interest in the topic, AR. But it does explain why the OP doesn't answer her own questions.

To answer the questions, I am a bronze medalist, but will not be grandfathered in, since my bronze was achieved in canada more than a decade ago.
And I have never ridden second level. I started my dressage career at third, when it was called "Basic 3" in Canada. I've taken a few greenies out at first, and a couple of horses to third and fourth. I am working on PSG.

There is 1 recognized show within a 2 hour drive of my barn per year. One.

There is one other recognized show more than 2 hours away.

There are a dozen more, but they are all more than 4 hours. Any trip to any other recognized show includes the $300 boat ride and at least 4 nights in a hotel, so a weekend show is $1000-1500 with entries and stabling. I can reasoanbly expect to show recognized 4 times a year but then, I don't take any other vacations.

Yes, I am in canada, but the other recognized shows geographically closest to me are in region 6-PNW, and the canadian system is using all the US tests now- it won't be long before we follow suit.

I oppose the rule requiring additional qualifications.

[eventer4ever]

I am planning a debut at 3rd level this summer, with a possible move to 4th later in the season. My horse and I have been together for 7 years and we evented to the CCI* Prelim level. We went to 3 recognized dressage shows last year, the first at Training level and the last two at 1st and 2nd level.

I'm in Region 2


Do you currently have scores to meet the latest outline for qualification?
No. I do have the scores needed at 1st and 2nd level for my bronze, and I anticipate working towards my two 3rd level scores this season...

Would you anticipate needing to qualify by getting many lower scores, or fewer higher scores?
Many lower scores...

How many recognized shows can you attend in a year? (a number that's not a financial or time burden - 'can attend' means how many would you be willing to attend given your time, resources, etc).
Around 5. Though with the price of gas around here at over $3 a gallon, I'm not sure if I'll get to that many this season.

How many recognized shows are there within a 2 hr drive of your barn?
None. The closest is 3 hours. Waterloo is 3, Lamplight is 3, Sliverwood is around 3, Paxton is at least 5.

Erica

[Dressage Art]

Do you currently have scores to meet the latest outline for qualification? ............. Yes, but my horse and I are still not really to move up to 3rd level ;)

Would you anticipate needing to qualify by getting many lower scores, or fewer higher scores? .............. Middle scores, my lowest one from the last season was about 58% and my highest was about 68% on 2nd, but majority were in the middle of that range.

How many recognized shows can you attend in a year? (A number that's not a financial or time burden - 'can attend' means how many would you be willing to attend given your time, resources, etc)................ To keep me in the comfort zone, if one-day shows it’ll be 4 shows per year. My perfect show season is really from February to June: I don't really like to show in July, August, September b/c its way too hot, temps are in 90+ and in fall it's 99% of a rein with wind at the show, so it's really a "blast" to ride in this kind of weather. That said, I don't stay in my "comfort zone" and the biggest number I done up to 11 shows per year all year round in all kinds of weather. The smallest number was 2 shows per year at the same barn that I was boarding at - very convenient :D

How many recognized shows are there within a 2 hr drive of your barn?.......... a lot, there is a show every month with in 2 hour drive, but they are mostly 1 day small shows. I usually go to the same three local shows that are only 1 hour away from my barn. I drive up; show and drive back to the barn. I’m done in one day. Entry fees for 2 classes at the same day are about $150, no stall fee, + warm up class for $25 + trailering gas (ha! that can be as much as $50 per roundtrip and $50 for the monthly trailer parking).

Underlining that in N. California most of the shows are a one day, small shows with only a handful of riders in each class all bunched up together: Juniors, AA and pros. Example of the local small show: http://www.usdf.org/calendar/results.asp?CompetitionPass=13462&KeyPass=RC/F/J/AA and this one http://www.usdf.org/calendar/results.asp?CompetitionPass=13470&KeyPass=RC/M/Y/P/EQ/F/Q/J/AA/DM We do have a handful of big CDI (international) shows with in the driving distance of 3-4 hours, they have about 10 people per class, but they are much more expensive to show at.

[TracyA]

I'm just starting to compete at first level, so I will be affected by the new rules IF my horse and I make it to third level.

There is ONE, two day show within a two hour drive. There are a few more within a 3.5 hr drive, but I would be paying trainer and hauler to be the only person going that far. I will have to opt for fewer, higher scoring rides. Fessor and I have had some success at the local schooling shows, but how that will translate to recognized shows I'm not sure. Hopefully I'll have a better idea after July (when the show I CAN get to is held).

I am located in region 4, in central Iowa. It's too bad I'm not closer to Mason City -- they have a few 2-day recognized shows there.

Tracy

[pintopiaffe]

Do you currently have scores to meet the latest outline for qualification?
No. The original "plan" was to show recognized/2nd last year. The "plan" got completely thrown out because it became more important to me to get things really correct for third than to show for second. Fundage also played a huge role, I had some major emergencies/crises and a very serious accident, or perhaps I would have at least gone to some schooling shows.

Would you anticipate needing to qualify by getting many lower scores, or fewer higher scores?
I guess I don't understand the question. I need to get the scores I need in as few attempts as possible, because of fundage.

How many recognized shows can you attend in a year? (a number that's not a financial or time burden - 'can attend' means how many would you be willing to attend given your time, resources, etc).
Probably 3 maximum.

How many recognized shows are there within a 2 hr drive of your barn?
One, but it is far too early in the season (June) to be useful to me because I don't have an indoor, and we're just finishing legging up by June if I'm lucky, we're not working or in show form yet.

I am in Region 8, which has lots of lovely, very $$$ shows 4-8 hours from me.

At this point I am probably going to have to give up on finishing my stallion's RPSI approveal if we can't get out there this year. I'm not going backwards to get where we need to be.

Personally, until we are wearing a shad and a double(which we WILL be, before I die!) I don't care so much whether a show is recognized or not, as long as I respect the judge. A show is a show. I get unaccountably nervous when the bell rings. Why waste my money on recognized when the bell rings the same at schooling. It is usally more expensive than a lesson. I ride dressage to do DRESSAGE. Showing is not *my* goal, but is is, unfortunately, something my stallion needs. <shrugs> WB Approveal doesn't mean as much in some circles/demographics. HERE (the forums, the 'net) it's huge... Sometimes I think I might've had some of the kool aid and need to step back and reexamine my priorities.

[~Freedom~]

I don't show at these levels, so my answers don't count, but, I am curious why you're asking, slick - since you don't ride dressage.

I think this is like the Benamine thread and the "what do you feed your horse" type thread.


So SLC since the Benamine thread was a bet is there another bet going on that you will spring on us? You have said over and over you don't show and you are not a USEF member so other than this is may be a rhetorical question I cannot see what benefit it does for you.

Anyways IF I were in the US I would be grandfathered in as my current level is FEI however I doubt I would have trouble getting any qualifying scores if needed.

Where I am, there are several shows (at least 3 or 4) within a 1-2 hour drive so not short on venues to go to.

[dotneko]

You guys need to come visit me for the summer!

I have - count em- at least 9 recognized shows within a 2 hour drive
from me - almost all at least two days
2 at Beland, 2 at UNH, 2 at Westbrook, 1 or 2 at Mystic, NEDA spring,
King Oak and if you want to add 15 minutes, then GMHA X 2
Beat that! We are horse show central.

Region 8 rules! :D

(in answer to the OP's question, I am grandfathered in with my Gold
Medal, so I won't be chasing scores)

Dot

[Pony Fixer]

I too, question the reason for slick's question, but will play along...

Do you currently have scores to meet the latest outline for qualification?

I don't think so. Even with the lower requirement of 58% (which all my second level scores were above, but not by much) I fall short, and I did not show 2/4 this past season. I think I showed 3 recognized classes at 2nd, so I think I would have 4 points at 2nd. edited to add: I have a bajillion points at first, so if 50% can come from 1st level, I have 9 points, and would need one score of 58% or higher at 2/4 to finish the latest qual outline. I do, however, have 2 scores above 60% at 3rd (in 2 attempts). I need one score still at second to get my bronze, which I should have long before any requirements are set.

Would you anticipate needing to qualify by getting many lower scores, or fewer higher scores?

I also don't quite understand the question. Once I get my over 60% score at 2nd for my bronze, I won't be showing that anymore since I plan to do 3rd/4th this season.

How many recognized shows can you attend in a year? (a number that's not a financial or time burden - 'can attend' means how many would you be willing to attend given your time, resources, etc).

I just looked at the schedule last week. I have the option of 1 show/month from March to November within a 2 hour drive, but won't go to 9 shows (both because of money and time). Usually I hit between 4 and 6 USDF shows/season (as well as local schooling shows).

How many recognized shows are there within a 2 hr drive of your barn?

I'm lucky to be in Region 1, with lots of good show options, and good competition! In my area, Williamston, Raleigh, Pinehurst, and Raeford are all within 2 hours and offer more than one show/year. And even more are within 4 hours. Lexington is a haul at 5 hours, but we have already qualified for the BLMs, so we'll be there, too. Since we have 2 regional "finals" (BLM and GAIG) here, I'm lucky enough to usually compete at whichever is in Lexington, as I have no desire to drive to NJ.

[InnocentBystander]

I've never ridden dressage outside of playing around with some basic Pony Club test a few years ago in the indoor - but I did use a computer at a Holiday Inn Express last night. So, can I gather wisdom and insight from everyone else and then proclaim to be an expert too?

[AnotherRound]

Oh my, yes! You can if you post a thread of your own asking for data! But be sure to do it slick-like! You need to post-and-run, and wait for your intended audience to be suckered into thinking that delivering your data is really just bragging about their riding and horses and showing levels. And, you can keep the thread alive by nudging people to divulge more about the logistics of what its like to be an upper level competetor, so that you can later write and talk like one. But, be quick and wily - if anyone catches on and challenges you for sounding like you know what you are doing when you don't, be ready to post serious thoughts on unrelated threads. It will look like you are too busy to care about your scraps of data.

:cool:

[Spectrum]

Do you currently have scores to meet the latest outline for qualification?

I have 2-3 scores in the 58-59.99% range at second level.

Would you anticipate needing to qualify by getting many lower scores, or fewer higher scores?

Many lower-60's scores, most likely. My mare likes to throw in random "exuberances" into her show classes. We'll score mostly 6's and 7's (sometimes 8's) with the odd 3 or 4 tossed in randomly (never get the same 3 or 4 twice in a row!).

How many recognized shows can you attend in a year? (a number that's not a financial or time burden - 'can attend' means how many would you be willing to attend given your time, resources, etc).

2-3. 4 would be stretching it quite a bit.

How many recognized shows are there within a 2 hr drive of your barn?

2 within 2 hours. An additional 5 if we drive 2.5 hours. Every weekend mid-May thru Sept if we drive 6 hours. I am in Region 4.

[Eclectic Horseman]

To AnotherRound and Innocentbystander et al-
C'mon, guys, I think this thread has the potential to provide a lot of anecdotal evidence of why the qualifying rule is ill conceived, and will not do anything to advance the sport.

[slc2]

I didn't ask the questions intending to prove the rule was bad, but to understand how it could affect people, their plans, what problems they anticipate indivually. I thought that would reveal some new wrinkles in the program.

[Dressage Art]

I think this thread has the potential to provide a lot of anecdotal evidence of why the qualifying rule is ill conceived, and will not do anything to advance the sport.
Oh, I forgot that OP doesn't show at all... never....hmmm... well, I guess I was a sucker in answering her question! Very sliky!
PS: What about try to look at the positive side not to look only for wrinkles?

[Sandy M]

Particularly irrelevant for me. I have a 2nd level Performance Certificate for my RETIRED horse (10 scores of 60% or better), so presumably, I'm qualified. Haven't added up the points, but I had more than 10 scores over 60% at 2nd level, so...) But at present I'm riding (when he lets me. ;0)) a 3.5 year old, so 3rd level is not within the immediate future - but I COULD show him at 3rd level!! I'm qualified!!! He isn't and obviously couldn't do it, but this "qualification" rule would allow me to show him at that level. To quote Remus Lupine/J.K. Rowling: Ridikulus!!

[Dressage Art]

I have a 2nd level Performance Certificate for my RETIRED horse (10 scores of 60% or better),
For Performance Certificate it's only 4 scores of 60%+ not 10.

[magnum]

To answer SLC's question -- ... I am in region 2 and there are at least 8 shows within 3 hours of the farm. There are 4-5 shows within 2 hours (Detroit and Ann Arbor). I realize, we are very fortunate to have access like this (Thank you Dallas and family!!).

As for me, I hope to have a younger one *showing* at 3rd level in 2011 (not quite by 2010, tho, so not sure what rules will be by then).

I don't show at these levels .... but, I am curious why you're asking, slick - since you don't ride dressage.

Not that it might matter to you, AR, but this is a completely UNTRUE statement. You have admitted to not riding at this level. So what was your point for joining in this discussion (well, other than the obvious, which was to launch a personal attack against SLC)?

People wonder why this BB has such a bad rap? Here is a perfect example -- a thread started to offer us an opportunity to have a serious discussion about DRESSAGE and USDF competition requirements .... and hecklers logged on with the sole purpose of derailing the discussion AND launching personal attacks .... What level of credibility will this BB *EVER* have with this type of content and such a mentality?

Magnum

[Sandy M]

For Performance Certificate it's only 4 scores of 60%+ not 10.

That confused me, so I checked the USDF website. HORSE Performance Certificates are 10 scores over 60% except for some YR and other specific cases.

Perhaps you are thinking of a RIDER certificate being 4 scores? According to the USDF website the RIDER Performance Award is 4 scores.

For what it's worth, have both for Training through 2nd Level, so I would presumeably be qualfied on points under this proposition, should it go into effect at a 10 point level (or perhaps even a 20 pt. level), but it's still ridiculous and does not address the "bad riding" they are seeking to prevent.

[CatOnLap]

People wonder why this BB has such a bad rap...
What level of credibility will this BB *EVER* have with this type of content and such a mentality?
Firstly, this BB has a very good "rep" in most places and has always been adequately moderated to keep the worst of the personal attacks off line. COTH continues to be a fairly credible place to come and ask questions.
And frankly there are those of us who believe the board would be more credible if people who really don't have much experience or actual training in dressage would stop posting as if they were some sort of "expert". Some of the recent advice has bordered on dangerous and if she really were an expert in the fields purported, might have been actionable. Thankfully, the mods are on top of it and edited the more foolish parts.

At least AR is honest in revealing her credentials and experience.

But, Magnum, don't you think that your highlighting the criticism only contributes to something you purport to object to? I am sure the OP can adequately defend herself if she so chooses.

[Dalfan]

but, I am curious why you're asking, slick - since you don't ride dressage.

How do you know if slc rides dressage or not? Are you conducting surveillance outside her place? Kinda like you do on the boards, you know, following her around and dogging her posts. Just asking cause I'm curious.

[audgesmom]

As I have NO scores at this point only dreams of a someday bronze medal, I will continue to plug away at hoping to ride at 1 first in PUBLIC this year......thank God for my trainer's sense of humour!!!!!!!!!!!!

[~Freedom~]

How do you know if slc rides dressage or not? Are you conducting surveillance outside her place? Kinda like you do on the boards, you know, following her around and dogging her posts. Just asking cause I'm curious.


I am sure AR can answer for herself but I also stated this and maybe, just maybe it is because SLC said this herself. I believe she rode in the Dark Ages , just schooling level and she isn't even a USEF member.

[NoDQhere]

So only people who are actively "showing dressage" are allowed to "worry" about this proposed qualification? What about the trainers/instructors and breeders? I think any "rule" that can potentially turn people away from dressage could affect more people than just the riders who show :confused:

I don't know SLC or if she rides/shows dressage or is a team penner. BUT her writing pertaining to dressage is, for the most part, accurate. And, as has been stated MANY times, the purpose of this board is to exchange ideas AND INFORMATION, isn't it?:yes:

[~Freedom~]

And, as has been stated MANY times, the purpose of this board is to exchange ideas AND INFORMATION, isn't it?:yes:

Absolutely and any RELEVANT and USEFUL information that is posted I read. I post very little about what should or should not be done because I am a firm believer in the person getting QUALIFIED help IN REAL LIFE. Only in a real situation can the observer get a true understanding of exactly what is going on.

Suggestions are good and this board allows those suggestions to be made. They should however be looked at both from the qualified aspect ( just who is offering them and their qualifications) and how relevant they are for the situation the requester is in.

What we must avoid at all costs is allowing dangerous advice from unqualified people as was presented by the OP that could result in serious damage. This occurred both on this board and another one ( in Florida) and I was appalled at such blatant perilous advice.

[Dalfan]

RELEVANT and USEFUL information

Yes but, who gets to decide this? You? Maybe some info is not relevant to you, but it could be to someone else.

They should however be looked at both from the qualified aspect ( just who is offering them and their qualifications) and how relevant they are for the situation the requester is in.

Well, we really don't know many poster's qualifications, do we?

So, when you come on a thread just to poke at something slc posted, I guess your suggestion doesn't apply to you?

[~Freedom~]

Yes but, who gets to decide this? You? Maybe some info is not relevant to you, but it could be to someone else.

I decide what is relevant to me.

Well, we really don't know many poster's qualifications, do we? Some do some don't. In the OPer's case they themselves stated what I posted.

So, when you come on a thread just to poke at something slc posted, I guess your suggestion doesn't apply to you?In spite of my reservations I DID answer the OP questions, however I doubt it will useful to her

[Dalfan]

I decide what is relevant to me.

Exactly my point. And others get to decide what is relevant and useful for them. And if they don't like another's post, they can ignore it.

[HappyTalk]

People wonder why this BB has such a bad rap? Here is a perfect example -- a thread started to offer us an opportunity to have a serious discussion about DRESSAGE and USDF competition requirements .... and hecklers logged on with the sole purpose of derailing the discussion AND launching personal attacks .... What level of credibility will this BB *EVER* have with this type of content and such a mentality?

Magnum

Uh, aren't you the one that weirded out the Carl Hester thread?

[egontoast]

good catch, happy :)

[papony]

and get back on thread buuuut.....

Here are my answers for what its worth:

I am an AA who showed second level last year and intend to show 3rd/4th this year if oskar gets strong enough. I would be prequalified for 3rd, although if I wasn't, I would have qualified within a few shows. When I get to a level where I have to qualify (should this rule pass), I hope that the scores from shows at the previous level would have qualified me already. In theory, if my horse and I are truly ready to move up to PSG for instance, we should already have a decent string of scores at 4th level, right?

I am in Region 1 where we have a lot of recognized shows, almost every weekend within 5 hours and once or twice a month within 2-3 hours.

I usually show in spurts.... if my horse is ready to show at a specific level, I'll show more and solidify our ability to perform at that level, improve my ring savvy, and put together a good test, all the while building strength, etc. Then I'll take a break from showing and work more intensively on getting ready for the next level. That way I dont have to worry if things fall apart for a while while we are learning something new or solving a core weakness. Then when we are ready, we show. The higher up the levels I go, the longer it takes before my horses are usually ready to move up anyway. So I don't expect a qualifying system to really hinder my ability to progress under this training system.

[magnum]

We are lucky to have enough shows in Region 2 (within a 3 hour drive) for those who wish to / need to qualify.

I personally think the costs of showing have gone over the top in GENERAL. But, it is what it is. If you want to continue to do it, you pay the price. The only other choice for the average person is schooling shows, which offer a lot of good experience and feedback. ....

There was a day when I would even take my greenies to USDF shows, but NO MORE. It's just not affordable to pay so much for getting for them the same exposure they could get for a LOT LESS at a schooling show.

FWIW, guys -- SLC is in our area. She has regularly participated in lessons and clinics at PUBLIC venues at INTERMEDIARE level. I have first hand watched her do some pretty impressive things upon the back of a horse. Her horses are healthy, FIT and shiney and they go CORRECTLY ..... And, she is an inspiration in that she NEVER complains about ANYTHING to do with her riding goals. Right now, that would be our single digit and 0 degree temp's at night! She is one tough woman.

Magnum

[Sonesta]

Magnum, Either you are full of crap or you have mistaken our slc for someone else.

Just sayin'........

[Pony Fixer]

Her horses are healthy, FIT and shiney and they go CORRECTLY
Magnum

It was my understanding (from years of reading posts) that she has one horse and one (green) pony only.

[Dalfan]

It was my understanding (from years of reading posts) that she has one horse and one (green) pony only.

Maybe you should ask slc to update you on such things, since you have appointed yourself the truth seeker by scouring the internet looking for discrepancies in her posts. That way it won't seem like you are one of those internet whackjobs.

[fiona]

FWIW, guys -- SLC is in our area. She has regularly participated in lessons and clinics at PUBLIC venues at INTERMEDIARE level. I have first hand watched her do some pretty impressive things upon the back of a horse. Her horses are healthy, FIT and shiney and they go CORRECTLY ..... And, she is an inspiration in that she NEVER complains about ANYTHING to do with her riding goals. Right now, that would be our single digit and 0 degree temp's at night! She is one tough woman.


Oh wow! That's great.
What a shame you decided carl hester is not good enough for your training plans because he could have taught slc and been an independant arbiter in the debate over whether she can ride out of a wet paper bag or
not.

[ToN Farm]

Do you currently have scores to meet the latest outline for qualification?
<Yes, I am qualified for Advanced>

Would you anticipate needing to qualify by getting many lower scores, or fewer higher scores?
<Regretfully, I got my more lower qualifying scores than
higher ones.>

How many recognized shows can you attend in a year? (a number that's not a financial or time burden - 'can attend' means how many would you be willing to attend given your time, resources, etc).
<I could probably afford to show twice a month if I wanted.
I don't have any time constraints except for farm chores.
I don't see a point to continuous showing.>

How many recognized shows are there within a 2 hr drive of your barn?
<Oh Gee, lots. At least 10 within 1 hour. NJ is the horse state>

[AnotherRound]

FWIW, guys -- SLC is in our area. She has regularly participated in lessons and clinics at PUBLIC venues at INTERMEDIARE level. I have first hand watched her do some pretty impressive things upon the back of a horse. Her horses are healthy, FIT and shiney and they go CORRECTLY ..... And, she is an inspiration in that she NEVER complains about ANYTHING to do with her riding goals. Right now, that would be our single digit and 0 degree temp's at night! She is one tough woman.

Magnum ________

I second the BS award to magnum - you're full of it and slick is the one who says she neither rides now nor has ridden dressage. Just because people talk like they know what they are saying doesn't mean they do. You included. In Slick's case, her pretenses are dangerous and self-contradictory. You just outed yourself as another story teller.

[Dalfan]

Just because people talk like they know what they are saying doesn't mean they do. You included.

I take it this applies to you also?

you're full of it and slick is the one who says she neither rides now nor has ridden dressage.

This is just too funny. How many times with your posts have you accused/insinuated/implied slc of bs, now, when it suits your purpose, you're all of a sudden gonna believe her :lol::lol:, just to call another poster a liar. OMG! [edit]

[Pony Fixer]

Maybe you should ask slc to update you on such things, since you have appointed yourself the truth seeker by scouring the internet looking for discrepancies in her posts. That way it won't seem like you are one of those internet whackjobs.

Well, you are right, the quickest way (usually) to get information is to go straight to the source.

However, slick has been asked many a question directly on these boards, and without fail either avoids/never answers or avoids/dances around answer.

But, you are right.

So, slc2, I would love to hear about your experiences at recent clinics. I have extensive family in Ohio, and when visiting, without fail, am bored to tears being the only equestrian in a large group. Maybe you can let me know who is coming to Ohio and I can audit sometime (whether you are riding or not).

[slc2]

I am not responsible for what magnum or anyone else writes about me (obviously). I didn't tell her to write that. I think it is QUITE misleading. venue"? "intermediare"? Yes, I did work at that level, but hardly at a 'venue'. That's very misleading. when you say 'venue' people think of some big show or national clinic, not a small local private clinic or a riding lesson.

The last time I went to a clinic was quite some time ago. And I was not working on anything "intermediare" there. I wanted to compare trainer's philosophies. What seemed really simple (Different approaches of two trainers) wasn't simple at all, but I did learn alot.

This is a game, though. And...I'm not playing. This happens on internet bulletin boards, from feedingkittens.com to golf.com.

Many people have posted very interesting and helpful posts about the qualification proposals. Rebecca and Jenn in particular have really worked very hard on it. I liked how Jenn responded to my question - is it really the 30 % rides that prompted this proposal, or the rides from 50 - 60%. I know that's a challenging question to answer and it was really good to hear an honest response.

[Dalfan]

However, slick has been asked many a question directly on these boards, and without fail either avoids/never answers or avoids/dances around answer.

I didn't realize anyone was obligated to answer questions from anonymous posters.

So, slc2, I would love to hear about your experiences at recent clinics. I have extensive family in Ohio, and when visiting, without fail, am bored to tears being the only equestrian in a large group. Maybe you can let me know who is coming to Ohio and I can audit sometime (whether you are riding or not).

Yes. I'm sure she'll get right to it. :lol::lol: Although usually one doesn't let non-friends in one's life. Based on your "checking" of her membership(s), I'd put you in this category.

[~Freedom~]

I remember some of the most hilarious comediennes that were on TV. One that always put me in stitches was Phyllis Diller. It was her descriptions of her husband "Fang" and his weird outlook that were particularly funny.

One particular one was this.

"Fang can't stand to see trash & garbage lying around the house. He can't stand the competition."

[Pony Fixer]

Well, dalfan, I think she pretty much *did* answer my question.

And I'm no more or less "anonymous" than you. There are many people here who know who I "really" am, I just don't need more google fodder than I already have :lol:

[Dalfan]

Well, dalfan, I think she pretty much *did* answer my question.

So you're satisfied now?

[Pony Fixer]

I was satisfied before the question. You are the one who suggested I ask it.

[Dalfan]

I too, question the reason for slick's question, but will play along...

It was my understanding (from years of reading posts) that she has one horse and one (green) pony only.

Well, not to beat a dead horse, but these might be considered questions, implicitly of course.:):)

[Pony Fixer]

Ponyfixer Quote:
I too, question the reason for slick's question, but will play along...
Ponyfixer Quote:
It was my understanding (from years of reading posts) that she has one horse and one (green) pony only.

Dalfan Quote:
Well, not to beat a dead horse, but these might be considered questions, implicitly of course.

The first one was an entirely different question. As in, why does slick wanna know what I think about the qualification system since I do show 3rd/4th level and by her own admission, she does not?

The second one is clearly NOT a question. It is a statement refuting the inference (not made by her, in her defense) that she has several horses training/clinicing at I1. You called me on the statement, so I turned it into a question at your suggestion.

Yawn.

[FriesianX]

There have been a lot of very astute comments here on qualification. Rebecca's research is really good, but it made me wonder about several things:

Do you currently have scores to meet the latest outline for qualification?

Plenty of scores!

Would you anticipate needing to qualify by getting many lower scores, or fewer higher scores?

A few higher scores.

How many recognized shows can you attend in a year? (a number that's not a financial or time burden - 'can attend' means how many would you be willing to attend given your time, resources, etc).

Well, being in California has its show benefits - I figure there are at least 9 or 10 big rated shows within an hour's drive (3 different facilities) , and another 10 if I'm willing to drive 3 hours. 6 of those shows are multi-day/multi-ring/multi-judge shows. Monetarily, I'll try to hit at least 6 of them. Luckily, they are close enough that I don't have to pay for a hotel which helps!

How many recognized shows are there within a 2 hr drive of your barn?

See above.

I didn't read all the posts - there are way too many! But my general feeling is, if you are in one of the big "show" regions, this proposal is no big deal - especially now that they are looking at a more reasonable point threshhold. On the other hand, if you are in the rest of the US, GETTING to the shows is a major issue! If there are only two or three shows a year that are within a 3 hour drive, getting points is expensive!

[magnum]

* My apologies to SLC.*

Looks like I have gotten you confused with some other *rider on a bay horse* :D within a clinic setting .... having seen too many clinics to count over the last several years, that's very easy to do!

Anyway, on this particular proposal, who knows where it will go? I guess this one is the least of my concern, but I am lucky that we have several shows in the area. There are other proposals with which I take more umbrage. Let's hope the people at the top are listening to the feedback on ALL of these proposals and will consider the barriers they may inadvertently impose if some of these are passed.

Magnum

[ClaraLuisa]

Back to the question.
1) Nope, I don't have the scores now.
2) We will be at the low end...need many scores.
3) I can probably do two recognized shows a year. Finances are the obstacle.
4) We're in New England, so it's hardly a wasteland. But I believe only one show I'd consider is within two hours.
As I've noted before I am squarely among the riders who seem to be considered "the problem," scoring in the high 50's and low 60's so far. I've got a horse that gets better as she goes up the levels, and is nobody's idea of a pleasant amateur ride at first and second. She's my horse, period--no money for another one, not that I would ever luck into something this nice again, despite her problems.
We did some third level rides last year which were wildly inconsistent, so went back to the barn to work on our basics. But still hoping (and spending googobs of money on training, and freezing our hienies off this winter.)

[Thomas_1]

SLC,

Why don't you answer your own questions as on the OP.

(And I'm asking nicely and not even anonymous) ;)

[Ride On]

I got my Bronze last year and am planning on showing 3rd again this year and then next year 4th. I am hoping to get my silver but we will see. The rules will make things much harder. I also have a Friesian and it definately depends on the judges. There are some judges I will not bother to waste my time showing in front of. There still is bred predjudice out there for sure. I really do not go to more than 3 shows a year and if the rule changes pass I may not get my silver.

I am in Region 8.

[Drsgrider]

Well,
I am a professional. I moved to Palm Beach County Florida for the opportunities. In the six years Ive been here, Ive managed three top "A" FEI barns, judged schooling shows, taught a few lessons.
I had planned on continuing the judges program to obtain my small "r" USEF status. I am a USDF "L" judge graduate with distinction. But I graduated when the USDF program first got started.

The requirements I would need just to enroll in the "r" progam would be:

Graduate of the "L" program within 7 years (Im way past that) I would have to take the sessions and testing again :( Its difficult to get the GMO's to host this L program without traveling across country to attend...time and money.

Earn 5 scores of 65% or better at 4th or above from 4 different judges within 8 years. I have three of those five but not within 8 years...Im past the 8 year mark.

With this qualification system I feel like giving up which is sad in a way as I have been in Dressage for 28 years. Im single, on my own, not made of money.

Just to show in this area cost a small fortune, $50 per class, let alone all the other fees, memberships..etc. The general cost of horse care in this area is outrageous. Im 30 minutes to Wellington with trailer, so there are plenty of shows if I could afford them. I pay $10.95 per bale for hay and the very minimum dry board I could find that was clean, safe and organized. I go to the barn daily to do my own chores, 20 minute drive one way. I work six days a week. It would take me so much money and years to achieve these qualifications to continue the judges program that its really got me down. And by then the qualifications will probably change.

IMHO, I feel unless you have a wealthy family or a sponsor its impossible to show here as a single independent person.
I wish I was back in region 4 where showing wasnt as abundant as it is here but it was affordable. And the GMO had USDF programs. I long for the grassroots again....<sigh>.

[neVar]

Well i'm in canada- but just for the sake of playing along

1- no i couldn't qualify at this point to move up to third

2- i'd have to look at many lower scores- reality is we're no that consistant in teh show ring due to less shows and well lack of time!

3- i show 2-3 recognized shows/year and only do 1 test/day

[slc2]

No prob, magnum. I don't think I've seen you at any clinics. I could be wrong as my memory is not so good. The last clinic I was at I was so sick we just said, 'enough'. That was it for clinics.

The purpose of the question is to get a feeling for how many different ways the qualification proposal might affect people in different situations. The responses on that subject have been great.

[egontoast]

Sure , it's totally cool when someone imagines you riding at a level that you have never ridden at.:)

[AnotherRound]

Even better than having to insinuate it your own self!:):)

[FriesianX]

Drsgrider - I hear you on trying to become a judge! There are a few of us on this BB that just went through the L and passed with distinction, but... The COST of getting those scores at 4th level. We are in CA - $50/class is just the beginning, all the bigger shows charge office fees, mandatory stabling or haul in fees, etc, so 2 classes ends up costing close to $200. Hay is up past $15/bale, and like Wellington, the shows are VERY competitive so the judges tend to be harder on people.

Talking to some of the L faculty, they admit they couldn't do it in today's competitive show ring - 65% at 4th level was much easier 10 years ago, now you need an uber-mover - $$$. And perhaps that is part of the problem - we have a system that says you get into the judge ranks if you are connected or moneyed. Is that where we want to go?

One thing I also find interesting about that requirement - being a good rider/trainer does not necessarily make you a good JUDGE. Having a good eye and the ability to react quickly and CONCISELY makes a good judge.

I will say, after several years of sitting and scribing, I have the greatest respect for many judges. I found very little breed bias, very supportive and knowledgeable people (and some who are really FUNNY :winkgrin:). But I wonder if the current judge qualification rules are really the best thing for dressage? And - I wonder if we'll have enough judges at the mid and upper ranks.

[yaya]

I find the same problem with TDs. Too many requirements (15 letters of recommendation, running lots of shows, etc) and not enough support from USEF (if you get sued, USEF does not help you) will cause most people to shy away from becoming a TD.

I wanted to be a TD, but there was just too much involved and too much liability if someone wanted to get suit-happy.

So I guess eventually USEF will find itself without TDs, judges, OR competitors!

[Thomas_1]

No prob, magnum. I don't think I've seen you at any clinics. I could be wrong as my memory is not so good. The last clinic I was at I was so sick we just said, 'enough'. That was it for clinics. Makes for a different option to "the dog ate my homework" or "my medication made me do it"

The purpose of the question is to get a feeling for how many different ways the qualification proposal might affect people in different situations. The responses on that subject have been great. And why are you interested in this? And what makes the responses worthy of note, let alone "great"?

You're not riding competitively. You're not a coach or trainer or otherwise involved or affected. You're not an official on any body which has any interest in how people might be affected. You're not a professional working in an industry where your business or product or proposition might be affected. You're not responsible for reviewing the rules. So what?

[Dalfan]

And why are you interested in this? And what makes the responses worthy of note, let alone "great"?

You're not riding competitively. You're not a coach or trainer or otherwise involved or affected. You're not an official on any body which has any interest in how people might be affected. You're not a professional working in an industry where your business or product or proposition might be affected. You're not responsible for reviewing the rules. So what?

And why do you care? Obviously, she found the responses, well most of them, of interest. Do you always interrogate O.P. like this - or just a select few of your favorites.

According to the list (link) of your accomplishments you sent to me by PM, I could ask you the same questions. You don't compete, do you? On any committees? An official of some sort? Of course, I rarely ever believe much I read or am told on the net without some independent corroboration to back it up.

It seems your way of asking "nicely" has gone by the wayside. As if that was really your intention. :lol: So transparent, you are.

[Thomas_1]

^ Are you her official spokesperson or her lacky?

[Dalfan]

Neither. Are you her official #1 fan (you seem so, so interested in everything slc) or her official hound dog/stalker. Cause we know for sure, just as the sun will rise, that you will be there [edit] poking at slc. Great fun.

[Thomas_1]

I’ll try to type slowly so you can keep up whilst I explain how bulletin boards work.

Someone originates a post (SLC on Sundays). A member logs on and clicks on New Posts (e.g. Thomas) and guess what happens?????

All the new posts come up! WOW

And then you just respond and reply and converse.

No sophisticated hunting skills required at all!

[~Freedom~]

According to the list (link) of your accomplishments you sent to me by PM, I could ask you the same questions. You don't compete, do you? On any committees? An official of some sort? Of course, I rarely ever believe much I read or am told on the net without some independent corroboration to back it up.

I am surprised Thomas even bothered to send you anything. You had asked me about my accomplishments also but if and when I reveal that bit of information it will be to someone of note and carries an degree of respect.

[class]

oh, you don't need to ask about freedom's accomplishments. i always see her training grand prix at the big name clinics in my area. she rides a largish brown-colored horse with polo wraps. i have always admired her skill and seat.

[Thomas_1]

I'm just clearly not a good judge of character ;)

I actually mistook a request for a serious question so just sent a link. Never realised it was just a professional lacky trying to find something perverse.

[~Freedom~]

oh, you don't need to ask about freedom's accomplishments. i always see her training grand prix at the big name clinics in my area. she rides a largish brown-colored horse with polo wraps. i have always admired her skill and seat.

:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

[egontoast]

oh, you don't need to ask about freedom's accomplishments. i always see her training grand prix at the big name clinics in my area. she rides a largish brown-colored horse with polo wraps. i have always admired her skill and seat

Yes, I remember her horse because it was so SHINEY! Very Very SHINEY!!. I specifically remember this because I used him for a mirror to dislodge some spinach caught in my teeth after the lunch break:winkgrin:.

[Dalfan]

I’ll try to type slowly so you can keep up whilst I explain how bulletin boards work.

Someone originates a post (SLC on Sundays). A member logs on and clicks on New Posts (e.g. Thomas) and guess what happens?????

All the new posts come up! WOW

And then you just respond and reply and converse.

No sophisticated hunting skills required at all!

Well gee, thom, that's not quite how I do it. But, to each his own. Please, convince me that you really, truly want to "converse" with slc. :lol::lol:

[Dalfan]

I am surprised Thomas even bothered to send you anything. You had asked me about my accomplishments also but if and when I reveal that bit of information it will be to someone of note and carries an degree of respect.

Wow. I didn't know such things were so top secret, classified. OMG, a real GP rider you are. Wow! A degree of respect, huh? You must have heard the saying - respect must be earned, not just given because you want it or think you deserve it, or something to that effect. So "revealing" who you are will be really special when the time comes, right? Can't wait.

I am surprised Thomas even bothered to send you anything.

Yes, so was I, considering I never asked him to via PM.

[Dalfan]

I actually mistook a request for a serious question so just sent a link.

Actually thom, it was just as serious as your requests for others to display their credentials, a habit you have of doing when others disagree with your opinions.

[~Freedom~]

So "revealing" who you are will be really special when the time comes, right? Can't wait.


You will have a long wait!:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

[Gucci Cowgirl]

And I have never ridden second level. I started my dressage career at third, when it was called "Basic 3" in Canada. I've taken a few greenies out at first, and a couple of horses to third and fourth. I am working on PSG.




When I showed in Canada, Basic 3 was more like 2nd level. "Medium" was the equivalent of 3rd/4th level

[Dalfan]

You will have a long wait!

I think I can deal with the wait. :lol::lol: I mean afterall, it's not like you are the second coming, you know? Or maybe you are, and I've been missing all the "breaking news".:lol::lol:

[Sabine]

I think I can deal with the wait. :lol::lol: I mean afterall, it's not like you are the second coming, you know? Or maybe you are, and I've been missing all the "breaking news".:lol::lol:

Wow- Dalfan- you always seem to 'seize' the thread and make it all about who gets to say what...???

Are you from a highly controlled environment???? - just ease up a bit and let peeps have some fun...slick is smart enough to defend herself- actually quite more able to write well - so just chill- and enjoy....Thom- Eggie- F'dom do not need your monitoring...they are happy just the way they are...:)!!!

jmo.

[Dalfan]

Wow- Dalfan- you always seem to 'seize' the thread and make it all about who gets to say what...???

Are you from a highly controlled environment???? - just ease up a bit and let peeps have some fun...slick is smart enough to defend herself- actually quite more able to write well - so just chill- and enjoy....Thom- Eggie- F'dom do not need your monitoring...they are happy just the way they are...!!!

I am chilling...and enjoying. They have their version of fun and I have mine. Funny you think "I" am the one seizing the thread. I wonder why I never hear a peep from you about their antics??:lol::lol:

Oh,btw, I think slick handles it just fine. Has nothing to do with her.

[~Freedom~]

slick . Has nothing to do with her.

Right on there girl, great definition of this thread.:)

[goeslikestink]

perhaps the op is just exploring different avenues and what would be the best course of action

you dont what she has up her sleeve-- and where she will all of a sudden turn up

some people jump-- but not reading between the lines--
ask a question or diferencies then you ask yourself why people only do that if they have something in mind or are planning to do something --
i say slc2 is planning-- and out line-ing what can be done and what avenue ot take

[slc2]

Not really. I have stated about a kazillian times, this is about understanding what problems people will have with the qual. system. I'm not planning anything. I'm trying to understand how this will affect dressage riders.

[fiona]

Fair enough except that's the part people have a problem understanding themselves as you're not a self confessed dressage rider, trainer or owner.
It's rather like me asking how the latest rules on qualifying affect barrel racers, cow ropers or American footballers - an odd question to solicit opinion on as i have no connection with any of those activites past or present.

[Moderator 1]

Please keep the personal bickering off of the boards. Thanks.

[Tasker]

slc2- There have been a lot of very astute comments here on qualification. Rebecca's research is really good, but it made me wonder about several things:

Do you currently have scores to meet the latest outline for qualification?
Yes.

Would you anticipate needing to qualify by getting many lower scores, or fewer higher scores?
N/A

How many recognized shows can you attend in a year? (a number that's not a financial or time burden - 'can attend' means how many would you be willing to attend given your time, resources, etc).
In a dream world, 20-30. In reality, 10-15.

How many recognized shows are there within a 2 hr drive of your barn?
Lots as I am in Region One.

This is just my opinion but I think the qualification system is an interesting concept if a few things are 'a given'... a) your horse is a 65% horse - meaning each movement should score a 5 on an off day, 6 or 7 on a good day, an 8 on a very good day. b) you have the financial, emotional and family resources to compete frequently in order to get the mileage in the show ring to execute a test with a high degree of accuracy. c) you & your horse don't get nervous away from home

The down side (again MHO) it is a very costly sport to begin with! A student was here today talking to mom about the photo of me & Wally in the USDF magazine. She loved my clothes and wanted to know what that outfit cost...bottom line $4000, not including my 'under' attire, just coat, hat, boots, britches. Oh and leaving out Sprenger bits, 4K saddle, spurs, double bridle...it all adds up! I hadn't done the math in a long time and other than reminding me to be sure to not drop my hat, saddle or coat in the near future, the reality is that this is an expensive sport. If you add in the number of shows needed to gain points with the office/stabling/haul in/grounds fees...it is very daunting to consider having to 'qualify' even on a horse that is capable of a 70%. If your horse is 'only' a 6 on a good day, well, the mountain looks very steep (and expensive) from where the two of you are standing.

Again, that is just my honest & humble opinion as a rider in a part of the country where there are a lot of shows to attend with good footing & management. :sigh:

[Drsgrider]

FriesianX,

<"But I wonder if the current judge qualification rules are really the best thing for dressage? And - I wonder if we'll have enough judges at the mid and upper ranks.>"
My point exactly!

Although I dont agree that the judges are harsher in Wellington. I believe its easier to get the required scores in Wellington verses in the Midwest. I believe there is a stereotyping going on. Ive seen these same horses show in the midwest and Florida earning higher scores in Florida under the same judges.

I agree with you that it was much easier to get a 65% at fourth 10 years ago verses today.

Interesting that some judges have told you they themselves would not be able to obtain qualification with the requirements of today. And some of these judges are on the faculty and committees of both USDF and USEF.
Things that make me go hmmmmmm :no: