County WB or Schleese Wave Saddle? Need help choosing

[artisticgold]

I'm trying to decide between two used saddles. I need to fit two very wide beasties with flat backs, and not much in the way of withers. I've tried quite a few, including a treeless, and haven't been successful with them working on my tanks. Everything either isn't wide enough, slides to the side, or feels just awful to me. I am looking at a nice County WB and a Schleese Wave. The Schleese is almost twice as much, but still a great deal, however, it may need to be widened by the maker, as it is set at M/W. The County WB has the #5 tree. I'm trying to get in touch with a couple of friends, one has several Waves, one has a County WB in a #4 tree, so I can try them out. I just don't want to wait too long and miss out on either one I'm looking at. I did try the County on my gelding a while ago, and it appeared to fit nicely, but I didn't ride in it. I have ridden in a couple of Wave saddles, and loved them, but not on my horses.

I also have the problem of not only fitting the horses, but keeping me comfortable in my hips and back, as I have fibro, sciatica, and back/neck problems....So, it has to help me, not hinder me.

I would just appreciate some input from people who have experience with either (or both) of these saddles, before I make a choice. Thanks!

[Knothead]

My old County WB fits my very wide backed, low withered Breeding Stock Paint excellently. It's an older model (92) and some of the newer models were even better, but I took what I could get at the time. He never "complained" once with this saddle on.

[ToN Farm]

I'd be willing to bet that the channel in the Wave is far wider than the County, no matter what # width the county is.

I think you are better off with the Wave than the County for a couple reasons. One is that the Schleese tree can be adjusted. The other is that resell on the Schleese will be easier, should you decide to sell it later. Schleese imo is a better made saddle.

I'm curious. What do you think is a good price for a used Wave?

[luckles]

I would steer clear of the Schleese. A friend got one a few months ago. The saddle fit so badly...it is the hardness of the panels and the basic constructon...that her horse is now back sore he is off for a month or more. Another point to consider, there are a lot of used Schleese saddles out there...that should say something.

[Fire_fly]

I think if you search here you will find lots of good AND bad about Schleese. Try to make your own best decision for the individual saddle and horse. I personally have BOTH of these saddles, for different horses. Isnt the schleese wave one of thier higher end models ? You could get something closer to the price of the county in the lower end Schleese, but maybe you have explored this option. I have had good service and excellent product from Schleese and have just ordered another saddle for them. Main selling point for me is the adjustability of thier tree, but the workmanship and leather was beautiful.

I also recently shopped for used saddles and have to say there are lots of used Schleeses, but also lots of used countys, keiffer, henning etc.

Good luck on your decision !

Edited to add that dont you also have the 30 day guarantee with the Schleese ?

[crthunder]

I love my Schleese Wave, but I know the saddle (and company) is not for everyone. I did buy mine new, but I have had it adjust five times (first horse grew ridiculously and then the second horse was a completely different build!) and it still looks like new.

I have talked a bit with a County fitter and she was clueless about what is wide enough for a horse with a very wide back (a friend's horse). The saddles she had were nearly as much as a Schleese with no custom/refitting options. YIKES!

That said, the key to working with Schleese is to have a really good fitter out from them. Some are better than others. If you want the name of the fitter I worked with send me a PM. She is EXCELLENT. She spent over an hour with each horse and rider the last time she was out and made sure everyone was happy :)

We are looking forward to having her back in February!

Becky

[high hat]

I would steer clear of the Schleese. A friend got one a few months ago. The saddle fit so badly...it is the hardness of the panels and the basic constructon...that her horse is now back sore he is off for a month or more. Another point to consider, there are a lot of used Schleese saddles out there...that should say something.

I have several Schleeses and love them. That being said each saddle can be very unique as they have a myriad of options to customize the saddles. I don't like a super hard seat so mine all have extra padding. The adjustability is the feature I like the best. All of mine have been tweaked. If you buy a used Schleese from an individual it is best to then have it checked and fitted by one of Schleese's fitters. The original horse might have been very asymetrical or the like and it won't fit until it is checked and restuffeds etc..

To the question that there are a lot of used Schleeses on the market they made a significant change to their design and many people who regularly work with them upgraded to the wider gullet channel and thus are 'flooding' the market with their older saddles.

[Ilex]

I have talked a bit with a County fitter and she was clueless about what is wide enough for a horse with a very wide back (a friend's horse). The saddles she had were nearly as much as a Schleese with no custom/refitting options. YIKES!



Hmmmmmmm........I have a County Connections that I bought new. It was sent back three times for modifications and I was NEVER charged. The County Rep is wonderful. I have nothing bad to say about him.

Did you have a tracing with you when you were asking about your friends horse?

[crthunder]

>>Hmmmmmmm........I have a County Connections that I bought new. It was sent back three times for modifications and I was NEVER charged. The County Rep is wonderful. I have nothing bad to say about him.

Did you have a tracing with you when you were asking about your friends horse?
<<

She was with the horse and watched the horse go poorly...

Actually it was the second horse she "fit" at our barn. Neither owner bought the saddle(s) in question. Thank goodness... Even our vet who does chiro and has trained in saddle fitting thought she was off her rocker with her suggestions...

That said, I nearly passed out when she said the one saddle was $4000 and the custom options were picking your seat size and tree size... adjustments beyond that weren't an option?

I think she may be giving County a bad name!
Becky

[artisticgold]

I've weighed all the info, and went over today and sat in a few of my friend's saddles. I think I'm going to bite the bullet and buy the Schleese, as they can continue to adjust the saddle for my horse(s) and if I ever get a different horse, it can be adjusted to that one, too. The County WB was $850 and the Schleese Wave is not quite half of that, so it's a really good deal for a 4 year old saddle in excellent shape. Schleese is coming through our area mid-February, so I can have them do an eval and adjustment at that time. So, thanks everyone for the input and I'll let you know how I feel when I get the saddle and actually get to ride in it! I'm really excited!!!!!

[artisticgold]

>The County WB was $850 and the Schleese Wave is not quite half of that<

Ooops, I meant the Schleese is not quite DOUBLE the price of County....Sheesh!

[ESG]

I've weighed all the info, and went over today and sat in a few of my friend's saddles. I think I'm going to bite the bullet and buy the Schleese, as they can continue to adjust the saddle for my horse(s) and if I ever get a different horse, it can be adjusted to that one, too. The County WB was $850 and the Schleese Wave is not quite (double) that, so it's a really good deal for a 4 year old saddle in excellent shape. Schleese is coming through our area mid-February, so I can have them do an eval and adjustment at that time. So, thanks everyone for the input and I'll let you know how I feel when I get the saddle and actually get to ride in it! I'm really excited!!!!!

This would bother me. As others have mentioned, there are a lot of used Schleeses out there; some, with other manufacturer's stamps on them. With the County saddles, not so much.

JME. :cool:

[AKB]

If you decide not to buy the County, PM me with the info. My daughter has a County Warmblood that she loves, and that fits all of our wide horses. We bought it when she was young and tiny. Now, she is taller and bigger, and needs a 17.5 inch, extra wide tree. Our old County rep was wonderful, but the new one is not. A year ago, the new rep quoted us something like $3000 and said she didn't have any discounted/demo saddles. Needless to say, my daughter is still riding in the saddle that is too small. My other daughter is riding in a Passier that fits the horse, but is not particularly comfortable. It was a lot cheaper than the new County saddles.

[artisticgold]

From what I've gathered, there are quite a few of the older models of Schleeses out there, but the Wave seems to be the saddle of choice. It is built differently, and fits the horse and rider better. My big thing is that I can have the saddlefitter come right to me, and adjust the saddle as my horses muscle up and change shape. If I could swing it, I'd buy them both, one for my mare and one for my gelding, so they could each have their own saddle. They are pretty close in shape though, so I'm hoping for the time being that I can get away with using the Wave on both of them.

[artisticgold]

AKB, the County WB I was looking at was a 16.5", so wouldn't work for your daughter. I have seen quite a few County WB's out there, if I find them again, I'll pm you with the info.

[MissFilly]

Different barns go through "saddle fads" all the time, so that is probably why you see some used Schleese's out there, that and some people don't realize that their saddle is adjustable if it doesn't fit. I wouldn't jump to negative conclusions from seeing used saddles on the market from a particular brand.

[rothmpp]

Different barns go through "saddle fads" all the time, so that is probably why you see some used Schleese's out there, that and some people don't realize that their saddle is adjustable if it doesn't fit. I wouldn't jump to negative conclusions from seeing used saddles on the market from a particular brand.

I'd also add that areas/regions go through phases as well. Schleese was really popular in my area a couple of years ago, so there is a lot out there. I would also say part of why they are less popular around here now is the fitter that we have is not the easiest to work with, so has turned alot of people off. I personally could never find a comfortable twist in a Schleese, but that is just me. I will say - the older counties do seem to have a narrow channel.

[Sanely Eccentric]

I have Schleese's JES Elite, purchased last summer. My mare and I love the detailed fit and high quality. Others in our barn have recently received their ordered saddles and we've been trying out each others' saddles on a saddle rack. Mind you, none of us have the same build and each has a different saddle as recommended for us individually by Jochen Schleese. It's interesting to find that we're thrilled with our own saddle, but not so much with different saddle models. :yes: It's also interesting to see what model is best suited to which horse and yes, the horses range from Friesan to Quarter Horse to Haflinger to Shagya to Arabian crosses, very different body types just like their owners. I highly recommend Schleese's fitting process whether you have a Schleese or another brand as it's quite involved for horse and rider. Jochen is coming back to our barn next week and we're looking forward to some of us having adjustments made, maybe there will be a new saddle purchase, and just absorbing all the information about horse physiology and saddle fitting that Jochen will share with us.

BTW, if anyone is in the area of Post Falls, Idaho (Spokane WA, Coeur d'Alene ID) Jan. 25 and would like to check it out (no pressure, just good food, good company, and good information:)), please let me know. You're welcome to attend with or without a horse.:yes:

[Maude]

I have a Wave and it is the only saddle that has fit my short backed, normal withered, wide backed horse. I originally purchased it for my mare and found that i did not like it for me. The twist was too wide and there was too much saddle behind me that pushed me forward (partially because of my derriere...). I sent the saddle back to Schleese and the changed the seat so it fits like a glove. It could not fit me better if it was custom made for me. Of course, I knew what I needed and was able to convey this to Schlees. A fitter from Schleese came out and refit my saddle not long ago (my mare had a foal and was out of work, lost her top line, etc.) and she has never gone better. The saddle will need to be refit again before too long now that she is back in work, but I know that as she changes, the saddle can be changed also. The County does not have that option I believe. If you have a Schleese, you can really have it changed/customized to what you want AND have it fit your horse. A big thumbs up for them!

[artisticgold]

Maude,

the ability to have the saddle customized to me and my horse is what was the deciding factor for me. If I bought the County WB and for some reason it didn't fit my horse perfectly, I would have had to sell it, as I don't know of any County saddle fitters in my area. Yes, it was a bit more expensive, and then I have to have it evaluated for both me and my horse, and possibly tweaked, but I'm just SO tired of not being able to fit my horses right. I was having problems with my gelding not wanting to do down transitions, he just wanted to motor on and blow through the aids. In a saddle that fit better, he came back softly, quietly, and immediately. My mare wouldn't go forward, and that's when I discovered her saddle was pushing into her shoulders, in another saddle she went forward happily and freely. I felt like such an idiot, I know about saddle fitting, yet their saddles were way too narrow and pinching them. So, I'm hoping with a saddle that fits to a T, that they will be happy and easier to ride. At least I know that any issues under saddle won't be caused by a poor fitting saddle.

[HappyTalk]

I have several Schleese saddles (all with Flaire) and I love them. I do have a Wave and I love it on my my wide, short backed horse. For some reason though, I like the JES Elite better on my longer backed horses.

[Sanely Eccentric]

I have several Schleese saddles (all with Flaire) and I love them. I do have a Wave and I love it on my my wide, short backed horse. For some reason though, I like the JES Elite better on my longer backed horses.

Funny....my JES Elite is for my wide, short-backed horse. :lol: It's got a banana panel so it doesn't press on my horse where it shouldn't and I think they can probably do that with any of their saddles.

[laurence cohen]

HI ARTISTICGOLD. SORRY TO HERE ABOUT YOUR DILEMMA,IVE BEING MAKING SADDLES FOR A VERY LONG TIME, 28 YEARS INFACT, ITS NOT ALWAYS THE CASE OF A SADDLE BEING MEDIUM/MW/EXTRA WIDE AND SO ON, ITS ABOUT THE TREE/FRAME BEING THE CORRECT WIDTH AND HAVING THE RIGHT AMOUNT OF WOOL IN THE RIGHT POSITION YOU SEE ALL HORSES ARE BUILT DIFFERENT HIGH WITHERS,LOW WITHERS,WIDE W/MUSTLE,N/WITHERS,HIGH SPINNED,NORMAL ,BARRELED,SWAYBACED ECT ECT ECT I COULD GO ON IF I COULD BE OF ANY SERVICE TO YOU PLEASE CALL SUPERIOR SADDLERY 626 338 2666. GOOD LOOK

[Where'sMyWhite]

I have scoliosis and love my Schleese Wave. At World Cup a few years ago I sat in just about every saddle there was. My Feldenkrais practitioner gave the node to the Schleese based on how my back felt it in.

It seems everyone fits the horse first but with my back issues, I tried to fit myself first. Having said that, have detected any back issues with my mare on the saddle either.

[Ambrey]

It seems everyone fits the horse first but with my back issues, I tried to fit myself first. Having said that, have detected any back issues with my mare on the saddle either.

If you get a custom Schleese, they will fit both!

[diamondgirl]

I have back/hip issues and LOVE my Wave. I can finally sit in the saddle without pain.

[baymareseven]

I can truly appreciate your ordeal. I recently purchased a Fusion for my mare. She is low withered and deep shouldered. I find the County rep extremely helpful. That being said...I rode in her demo for two weeks. My mare is uneven and dumped me right. I liked the Fusion so much that I ordered one. The rep ordered point billets and an anchor billet on the left. She also had extra stuffing on the one side to help me straighten the mare. I rode her demo for two weeks so focused on being dumped to the right. Not sure if the saddle rode up forward as I realized after I bought the saddle. The rep re-evaluated my new saddle after two months and re-stuffed and thought that the saddle was not too interfering with the migration forward. BUT, did recommend the Eco Gold saddle pad to try to stop the forward migration. I find that County gives very personal service and does try to address all problems. When I lived in Canada, I did have Schleese adjust my Passier. It was done satisfactorily. It is soooo difficult to make these decisions. I try to stay with local personell so that it is more accessible. Given, that all are equally qualified.

[MagicRoseFarm]

I have had my custom made Wave with Flair for the last 4 years. It WAS salty to buy new , but worth every penny.

My horse is 18 hands with GIGANTIC shoulders, my very old Passier almost fit him in that it was the ONLY saddle that allowed him basic freedom of movement and did not make him sore, however it no longer fit me. When I got my Wave I was amazed at how much more flexible through the back my horse was due to the extra wide gullet.

I have had major knee surgery and issues, resulting in extreme crookedness which my Wave has helped correct. I am more "sound" and correct in the saddle, than out, now :)

[Sabine]

Artistic- good choice on your part...it's right now I think the best saddle you can have here in the US. They have a very reliable route of top notch saddle fitters coming around and custom fitting your saddle, the basics for the horse are by far the best currently available- the wide gullet- making sure that the bulk of the weight sits on the muscled side of the horses spine- rather than on the bone, the cut-back front not impeding the shoulder movement and truly understanding the dynamics of the horse- in the withers area, and now- maybe more recently a truly updated ability to fit to the individual riders 'derriere' (that's french for A$$) and make the ladies happy! What more can you ask for? A good saddle is like a good shoe for a mountain climber- you can't do without- and you can do so much more 'with'!!

the reason the market is 'flooded' with old Schleese's is because the Schleese riders are getting new saddles...!! :)!!

[J-Lu]

Hi Sabine!

What model do you ride in? I've ridden in 3 models and although I love where the saddle puts my leg, my bony seatbones ache from the relatively hard seat and my upper thighs feel the "edge" where the seat ends and the flaps begin. You also must have bony seatbones because you are so skinny! Which model do you like? WHich model do people with skinny butts like?

BTW, I agree that some Schleese fitters are better than others and it depend on who you have...

J.

[ceclark303]

I have a County WB that I bought new in either 2001 or 2002. I no longer compete in dressage but still take occasional lessons. My saddle is a 17.5 XW and fits two of my Arabians very well. Other than a little fading, this saddle has held up extemely well and is comfortable for both horse and rider.

Although I have never owned a Schleese saddle, I have not heard positive comments from independent saddle fitters about this brand in general. You might also check on the warranty as I don't think it automatically transfers if you buy the saddle used.

I, too, have broad back horses and have been happy with dressage saddles other than these two brands. You might look at Trumbull Moutain's website. They have many saddles (both new and used) that will fit wide horses.

Good luck in your search and decision.

[cutemudhorse]

I bought a '96 County WB II for a great deal on eBay last year. . . only to find out that its tree was too curvy for my TBx horses, who do not have flat backs! My saddler said in general that they have curvy trees, but I don't know if they varied by the year they were made, and mine was a "II."

[TropicalStorm]

I have a schleese infinity for my really big 17.3hh gelding. I love it. I did try a county on him, but found that it didn't give him enough room for his shoulders. Like you, I opted for a schleese because it COULD be customized. I've had the saddle a year now, and still absolutely love it!

[3s]

One reason that you may not hear a lot of positive points about the Schleese from independent fitters is that
a) you generally you need a tree machine to be able to adjust the gullet (which you can't on many English saddles made on traditional wooden spring trees and many don't know how to do in any case!)
b) adjusting saddles for most saddlefitters means simply moving around the stuffing.
c) Schleeses are meant to be fit dynamically to accommodate the horse in movement; again not many are trained to do that nor have the tools or expertise to be able to do that.
d) their fitters have the most comprehensive training in the industry.
e) the warranty is affected if non-authorized people work on them; it's easier to pull the sour grape' thing and say 'I wouldn't work on those saddles in the first place'.

Just remember that most people have their own agendas in life....and work.