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freestyle2music
Jan. 9, 2008, 02:34 PM
YOUR THE FIRST TO KNOW !

The Swiss national coach and trainer Jürgen Koschel resigns after the descission of Silvia Ikle (first) and the complete Swiss team to cancel their participation at the 2008 Olympics.

WHO IS NEXT.


Theo

Elegante E
Jan. 9, 2008, 02:46 PM
YOUR THE FIRST TO KNOW !

The Swiss national coach and trainer Jürgen Koschel resigns after the descission of Silvia Ikle (first) and the complete Swiss team to cancel their participation at the 2008 Olympics.
Theo

Will be interesting to hear his reasons. I'm thinking Hong Kong is just a disaster waiting to happen.

Foxtrot's
Jan. 9, 2008, 02:52 PM
Remember the flap everyone got into when Milton's owners decided not to send him to the ?? Olympics for the same reasons. The Brits were heartbroken.

freestyle2music
Jan. 9, 2008, 02:58 PM
Rückritt von Jürgen Koschel 09.01.2008 17:27:46
Jürgen Koschel, der Trainer der Schweizer Dressur-Equipe, ist mit sofortiger Wirkung zurückgetreten. Koschel kann sich mit dem Olympiaverzicht von Silvia Iklé nicht befreunden. «Der späte Verzicht von Frau Iklé, die den Schweizer Verband auf Grund fehlender reiterlicher Alternativen nun zu einer kompletten Absage für die Olympischen Spiele in Hongkong veranlasste, ist für mich als Nationaltrainer überraschend und nicht gänzlich nachzuvollziehen», erklärt Koschel in seinem Rücktrittsschreiben


The very late cancellation of Sylvia Ikle, which led for the Swiss Governing Body to withdraw the whole team, and the fact that this withdrawel is based on wrong estimates is for me (JK) as the national trainer a descission I don't subscribe

OSLT

Theo

rileyt
Jan. 9, 2008, 03:06 PM
???

Clue me in... what's so bad about Hong Kong?

pintopiaffe
Jan. 9, 2008, 03:07 PM
The problem is, it's perfectly legitimate to not go to these Olympics, mostly due to air quality, not to mention other issues...

BUT... if dressage, or any of the Eq sports get cancelled altogether... I don't think we'll see them *back* in the Olympics. :(

freestyle2music
Jan. 9, 2008, 03:08 PM
The problem is, it's perfectly legitimate to not go to these Olympics, mostly due to air quality, not to mention other issues...

BUT... if dressage, or any of the Eq sports get cancelled altogether... I don't think we'll see them *back* in the Olympics. :(

EXACTLY :mad:

And EQ-sports have allready been banned very far from the HOTSPOT of the OS, which means that the most wonderfull experience for the competitors (meeting all these top-collegues of other sports) is vanished.

LexInVA
Jan. 9, 2008, 03:14 PM
???

Clue me in... what's so bad about Hong Kong?

The environment in general is pretty nasty. It's a beautiful city at night to be sure but in the day it's not really all that nice. Chinese people are very pleasant but it's a place where you have to be VERY careful no matter who you are.

rileyt
Jan. 9, 2008, 03:18 PM
The environment in general is pretty nasty. It's a beautiful city at night to be sure but in the day it's not really all that nice. Chinese people are very pleasant but it's a place where you have to be VERY careful no matter who you are.

Huh??

Are we talking about the environment? Crime? Intestinal distress?


Its been about 10 years since I was there last, but I thought it was a great city both day and night!

freestyle2music
Jan. 9, 2008, 03:39 PM
Almost every EQ country in the world have send delegations to HongKong. There where many try-out competitions with hundreds of vets and professors controlling everything. The average outcome of all these studies was that the humans (riders) would suffer far more than the horses. Silvia Ikle was mainly talking about the fact that her horses don't travel easy, and the time they had to spend in quarantaine was to long. Furthermore she stated that jumping and eventing horses where much more used to this tossing and travelling around than dressage horses. Silvia Ikle has the full right to withdraw, and all the other riders have the same rights. But withdrawing the whole team ( possibly based on the fact that Silvia was the only medal candidate for Switzerland) is WRONG.

Theo

Coreene
Jan. 9, 2008, 03:51 PM
Theo is right about Sylvia not wanting to travel with the horse. This is the same reason she didn't go to Las Vegas last year. She said in a recent interview in Bit magazine in Holland that her horse does not travel well on planes (the trip to Athens was not a good thing) and she was not very comfortable about HK in the first place.

She said that Salieri was her horse of a lifetime, and also her last competition horse. She does not have sponsors, she has devoted her life to the sport, and she does not want to put the horse in jeopardy. I had the good fortune of seeing the pair in Aachen in 2005 and thought they were just divine.

Shame that the whole Swiss team is out because of this. I do not know how Olympic qualifying rules work; if the Swiss pull out, will the first team on the Just Missed Qualifying List get a spot?

egontoast
Jan. 9, 2008, 04:05 PM
I see virtual international dressage competitions in the future. For dressage it would be easy to do. With the improvements in technology there will be no reason the competitors, judges and spectators have to be in one place other than the excitement factor. That may be just too expensive in the future and too risky for the horses to fly them all over the world for competitions.

YOU READ IT HERE FIRST! :-)

freestyle2music
Jan. 9, 2008, 04:13 PM
But also Silvia's second (also a very good) horse doesn't like to travel !?

Again, she has the right to do what she wants to do, but used a very bad timing, not only for the Swiss team but also for the World of EQ-sports.

In her last interview on Dutch and German TV (some months ago) Silvia stated that she wanted to skip some WorldCup competitions because she wanted to be fully prepared for the Olympics.

Dalfan
Jan. 9, 2008, 04:19 PM
Again, she has the right to do what she wants to do, but used a very bad timing, not only for the Swiss team but also for the World of EQ-sports.

Kudos to her for putting the welfare of the horse(s) ahead of ego and individual glory.

InsideLeg2OutsideRein
Jan. 9, 2008, 04:25 PM
[QUOTE=freestyle2music;2925278]But also Silvia's second (also a very good) horse doesn't like to travel !?

She stated that he has respiratory problems. A hot humid climate would not lend itself to that horse competing well. Plus that horse would still need to qualify anyway.

pophorse
Jan. 9, 2008, 05:32 PM
this bit of news was actually posted earlier today in Eurodressage...
anyways so what if Ikle does not want to go (in a very selfish and untimely manner by the way) and also pulls out her other horse, and then the Swiss decide to cancel the whole team, and Koschel resigns because he's pissed off with all of them?
It's terrible for the Swiss and the sport's image in a way, but trust me there's plenty of riders and NF's that are very happy to take the three extra spots from the Swiss team that will now be added to the individual slots which are based on the FEI rankings.
Now you might probably see a team from Austria or Spain going, so in the end the event will take place anyways, the same way it did in Atlanta, Australia, Greece, and so on. No matter where they Olympics are held (except Europe of course) there will always be some riders that have issues with shipping their horses to foreign countries.
This is not the end of the world, I'd rather have situations such as this over the doping scandals in cycling, the judging scandals in skating, etc....:lol:

Ghazzu
Jan. 9, 2008, 05:45 PM
anyways so what if Ikle does not want to go (in a very selfish and untimely manner by the way)


If putting her horses' welfare above the possibility of winning a prize is selfish, I like selfish.

fiona
Jan. 9, 2008, 05:54 PM
Putting the welfare of her horse first is admirable - obviously. It's the timing that is thoughtless - for other nations preparing, the rest of her team, etc

I'd put money on Aachen being the big event.

Coreene
Jan. 9, 2008, 06:06 PM
I'd put money on Aachen being the big event.Fiona, maybe I'll make it there in 2009 again. I'll bring Aunt Esther! ;)

Ghazzu
Jan. 9, 2008, 06:09 PM
Putting the welfare of her horse first is admirable - obviously. It's the timing that is thoughtless - for other nations preparing, the rest of her team, etc



Eight months out?
Looks like a pretty long time to fill a scratch to me.
Certainly the Swiss and other nations must have alternates/ backup plans in place in the event of horse and/or rider injury?

pophorse
Jan. 9, 2008, 06:23 PM
everyone knew that Hong Kong was the site a long time ago, and it does not take a genius to figure out HK is hot and humid in the summer.
Welfare of the horse? Sure, but as the anchor rider for a national team, you should have a duty towards your country and your fellow riders to decide if you'r willing to participate in international events or not long before now (by the way eight months is not a long time out, considering that Switzerland is a small country and does not have a depth of Olympic-caliber dressage riders), especially when you are qualified as a national team and not as an individual.
I feel she should have decided on this a long time ago, and not now. No wonder the trainer is upset and quits! :mad:

Dalfan
Jan. 9, 2008, 07:25 PM
It's the timing that is thoughtless - for other nations preparing, the rest of her team, etc

When should she have announced it? A week before the scheduled departure?

freestyle2music
Jan. 9, 2008, 07:37 PM
@Pophorse : No,.... it is now on eurodressage.

@Dalfan : Read the article in which Jurgen Koschel gave his explanation

pophorse
Jan. 9, 2008, 07:56 PM
@Pophorse : No,.... it is now on eurodressage.

what does this mean? of course it is, that's where I read it!

canyonoak
Jan. 9, 2008, 10:30 PM
I can understand Ikle deciding that Salieri , no spring chicken, is perhaps not going to be at his best after the long trip to Hong Kong.

What I cannot understand is her annoucement that her OTHER horse, Romario, will also not go! SFAIK, Romario has no traveling problems, no trouble with humid conditions,etc.
AND--Ikle gave the ride to Marthaler, her own student. So her annoucement basically pulls out half the proposed Swiss team.

I also cannot understand her timing--whatever her concerns, the location of 2008 Olympics has been known since IOC made the announcement. Hong Kong conditions have been studied and discussed since the test event, held around the same time as the Olympic events will be held.


Only some weeks ago, at Frankfurt, after her 2nd place in the CDI-W freestyle, she was explaining that she was not going to concentrate on World Cup but keep her sights on the Olympics...

so I suspect something else has happened in the interim.

belambi
Jan. 10, 2008, 12:26 AM
"""Putting the welfare of her horse first is admirable - obviously. It's the timing that is thoughtless - for other nations preparing, the rest of her team, etc

I'd put money on Aachen being the big event.""

fully agree fiona. the timing is a big issue here, simply because the nationality of horses has to be established at the beginning of the year.. so , just 8 days earlier, horses etc may have been able to be bought and qualify for olympics for their new country.. Now even though the qualifications are open till 8 June I think (?) the nationalities of the horses need to have been decided by 7 days ago.

http://www.fei.org/Disciplines/Dressage/Documents/Dressage_OG_2008_ENG.pdf

Xhltsalute
Jan. 10, 2008, 02:39 AM
Sounds like she never should have been put on the team. And, they do have plenty of time to fill her spot if they choose to, don't they?

Moll
Jan. 10, 2008, 03:16 AM
There where many try-out competitions with hundreds of vets and professors controlling everything.

Hundreds?

And well, yes, she could have decided to pull out earlier, but: either there are good GP riders to take her place, or there aren't.

egontoast
Jan. 10, 2008, 05:41 AM
With the timing and after saying she was planning to go just weeks ago, it reminds me of those politicians who quit and say 'It's to spend more time with my family".

There may be another reason but this reason is so much nicer .:)

Rusty Stirrup
Jan. 10, 2008, 07:32 AM
Is it true that the Chinese don't hold horse racing during the summer months because of the heat and bad air? I think she's a hero and positive role model to put her horse's first.

ESG
Jan. 10, 2008, 07:41 AM
I can understand Ikle deciding that Salieri , no spring chicken, is perhaps not going to be at his best after the long trip to Hong Kong.

What I cannot understand is her annoucement that her OTHER horse, Romario, will also not go! SFAIK, Romario has no traveling problems, no trouble with humid conditions,etc.
AND--Ikle gave the ride to Marthaler, her own student. So her annoucement basically pulls out half the proposed Swiss team.

I also cannot understand her timing--whatever her concerns, the location of 2008 Olympics has been known since IOC made the announcement. Hong Kong conditions have been studied and discussed since the test event, held around the same time as the Olympic events will be held.


Only some weeks ago, at Frankfurt, after her 2nd place in the CDI-W freestyle, she was explaining that she was not going to concentrate on World Cup but keep her sights on the Olympics...

so I suspect something else has happened in the interim.

Something is rotten in the state of Switzerland....................:p

IMVHO, this has nothing to do with the horse's ability to travel or not, or her other horse's ability to travel or not. Nor does it have to do with location. If that were the case, why participate in the Trials at all, since she knew the location of the Games, and the inherent conditions? Nope, something's wrong with horsie(s), and Ikle doesn't want anyone to know.
No wonder the coach got p!$$ed and quit; I don't blame him.

Smoke being blown.................................:uhoh:

Kathy Johnson
Jan. 10, 2008, 07:47 AM
But we've all known for MANY years 08 Olympics would be in Hong Kong. She's known for years that her horses don't travel well and/or have respiratory problems (as shown by skipping Las Vegas). So, the explanation doesn't add up, and something else is afoot. If the reason was only for her horse's health, she knew the Olympics would be in Hong Kong, and she never should have tried out for the team to begin with.

As someone else said, it would be easy enough to fill her spot. but instead the coach quits and the whole team is disbanded? Politics are the likely explanation. It's a shame.

Lambie Boat
Jan. 10, 2008, 08:39 AM
did she or someone close to her actually go to Hong Kong and witness the place first hand? I could understand how something in theory sounds just great, but as the time slowly approaches, reality sets in? I have concerns for all the athletes who will be outside, not just the horses. I say, no matter what the reason, good for her. Perhaps there should be an all out boycott

Rhiannonjk
Jan. 10, 2008, 08:43 AM
the timing is a big issue here, simply because the nationality of horses has to be established at the beginning of the year.. so , just 8 days earlier, horses etc may have been able to be bought and qualify for olympics for their new country.. Now even though the qualifications are open till 8 June I think (?) the nationalities of the horses need to have been decided by 7 days ago.

http://www.fei.org/Disciplines/Dressage/Documents/Dressage_OG_2008_ENG.pdf


Thank you for explaning the timing issue.

egontoast
Jan. 10, 2008, 09:50 AM
As someone else said, it would be easy enough to fill her spot. but instead the coach quits and the whole team is disbanded

Actually, if eurodressage is correct (IF!) the coach did not quit because she withdrew but because the powers that be decided not to try to send a team anyway. I think. Who knows.

Canadians Holzer and IShoy are not going to attempt to qualify either according to an article in the Globe and Mail today. They are unhappy with the Canadian qualifying criteria just announced.

RageMan
Jan. 10, 2008, 10:01 AM
There where many try-out competitions with hundreds of vets and professors controlling everything. The average outcome of all these studies was that the humans (riders) would suffer far more than the horses.

Pop quiz everyone!

Who was paying for these trials?

(Actually, I don't know for certain, but I have a pretty good guess)

slc2
Jan. 10, 2008, 10:02 AM
Isn't it also possible that his trainer contract is defined around the olympics, at least in part? Does he HAVE a job contract if they don't have a squad going to the olympics?

Isn't it also possible that with the extreme temperatures experienced this summer, fall and winter world wide, with records set all over the world, that some people are changing their minds about where they want to compete?

Isn't it also possible that promises made about how conditions were to be at the games, have not been fulfilled? Perhaps she was at one point comfortable with the idea but just isn't seeing the promises and facilities measuring up.

snoopy
Jan. 10, 2008, 10:23 AM
Actually, if eurodressage is correct (IF!) the coach did not quit because she withdrew but because the powers that be decided not to try to send a team anyway. I think. Who knows.

Canadians Holzer and IShoy are not going to attempt to qualify either according to an article in the Globe and Mail today. They are unhappy with the Canadian qualifying criteria just announced.



http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/ArticleNews/freeheadlines/LAC/20080110/OLYDRESSAGE10/sports/Sports

canyonoak
Jan. 10, 2008, 10:33 AM
yes, that is why the Dutch and Germans-- and others-- (heartless and money-mad as we all know)are sending their best combinations to Hong Kong.

Only Silvia Ikle cares about her horses' welfare.

Unh hunh.

Either one believes that the Olympics are important for horse sport--and one competes in the shows that qualify-- or one does not. And takes ones toys and goes home.

And if a responsible individual, one announces the decision in enough time for the National Federation to find some replacements.

This is basically February. Qualifiers are in a few months.

A bit late to look for international standard GP horse and riders.

ToN Farm
Jan. 10, 2008, 10:48 AM
yes, that is why the Dutch and Germans-- and others-- (heartless and money-mad as we all know)are sending their best combinations to Hong Kong.
Only Silvia Ikle cares about her horses' welfare.
No, not necessarily heartless and money-mad, but certainly anyone subjecting their horses to this trip and the weather and air conditions is not 'all that' concerned with their horse's welfare. Come-on, who can not think that this is very risky for the horses? Just because they all won't die under these conditions doesn't make it acceptable. We're talking about dressage on this board, but what about the event horses. OMG, it truly makes me sick to think about what they will have to endure.

Either one believes that the Olympics are important for horse sport--
True, and I am one that would like to see Equestrian events out of the Olympics.

canyonoak
Jan. 10, 2008, 10:52 AM
The horses are competing very early in the morning and at night.

The reports from the test event (run as a three-day-event short format) said that the horses were fine, it was the humans who had problems adjusting.

The barns and warm-up arenas are air-conditioned, humidity controlled,etc.

rileyt
Jan. 10, 2008, 11:24 AM
No, not necessarily heartless and money-mad, but certainly anyone subjecting their horses to this trip and the weather and air conditions is not 'all that' concerned with their horse's welfare. Come-on, who can not think that this is very risky for the horses? Just because they all won't die under these conditions doesn't make it acceptable. We're talking about dressage on this board, but what about the event horses. OMG, it truly makes me sick to think about what they will have to endure.


I think there is a difference between being "not all that concerned with their horse's welfare" and just plain "not all that concerned".

So its hot. Big deal. So its humid. Big deal.

So the air quality could be better... meh.

I really don't think the conditions will be all that different from Atlanta. Why the big stink? You think people in Florida stop riding their horses all summer?

Dune
Jan. 10, 2008, 11:50 AM
She's obviously someone who doesn't like to travel a lot and stress out herself and her horses, fine. Then don't go out and qualify for something for which you have no intent following through.

ESG
Jan. 10, 2008, 11:57 AM
No, not necessarily heartless and money-mad, but certainly anyone subjecting their horses to this trip and the weather and air conditions is not 'all that' concerned with their horse's welfare.

Let me see if I understand you correctly. Because the US doesn't seem to have a problem sending any of our equine athletes, the USOC are sending a team that is "not all that concerned with their horse's welfare"?!?!? Bet that'd be news to them. :rolleyes:


Come-on, who can not think that this is very risky for the horses?

<ESG madly waving hand in the air> ME! Seoul, Barcelona and Atlanta weren't any worse than HK will be. And I'd give a major body part to be as pampered as the equine athletes will be in HK. Get a grip. Just because you don't choose to ride when the temperature is over 75, doesn't mean the rest of the world follows suit.


Just because they all won't die under these conditions doesn't make it acceptable. We're talking about dressage on this board, but what about the event horses. OMG, it truly makes me sick to think about what they will have to endure.

Do you honestly think that all the participating countries would send teams if the conditions were truly that bad? You're getting carried away. No one's going to die. Well, at least, no one's going to die from the climate. Usually, one event rider or horse is seriously injured at every international competition, so I can't speak to that.


True, and I am one that would like to see Equestrian events out of the Olympics.

Why? :confused:

Tiki
Jan. 10, 2008, 01:22 PM
I'd like to know where on earth she gets the figure of 5 1/2 weeks of travelling? Will she be away from home for 5 1/2 weeks? yeah, will she actually be travelling for that length of time. Heck no! Is every show she attends one at which she can sleep in her own bed at home every night? Didn't she go to the Olympics in Australia or Seoul or Atlanta or Los Angeles? She must have gone to one of them.

If she's even gone to Hickstead or Aachen or lots of other shows she's had to travel.

I can tell you that if I ever qualified I'd find a way to go and love every minute of it!!!!!

Equibrit
Jan. 10, 2008, 01:34 PM
But - would your horse?

It's a LOT of stress to put a horse under for that kind of trip. You don't just put 'em on the trailer and take them out in to a stall!

http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/news/397/82281.html


Horsey would have to make the trip to the quarantine facility in Europe, one week quarantine, a plane ride to HK, further 10 days quarantine, about 2 weeks of Olympic events, plane ride back to Europe and presumably another week of quarantine and another trailer ride home. Do quarantined horses have their regular grooms quarantined with them, and do they get their regular exercise, which would require that riders be quarantined also? That's a lot of stress.

Mozart
Jan. 10, 2008, 01:46 PM
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/ArticleNews/freeheadlines/LAC/20080110/OLYDRESSAGE10/sports/Sports

Thank you snoopy! Now I don't have to wrestle the Globe away from my colleague!

Coreene
Jan. 10, 2008, 01:49 PM
I'd like to know where on earth she gets the figure of 5 1/2 weeks of travelling? Will she be away from home for 5 1/2 weeks? yeah, will she actually be travelling for that length of time. Heck no! Is every show she attends one at which she can sleep in her own bed at home every night? Didn't she go to the Olympics in Australia or Seoul or Atlanta or Los Angeles? She must have gone to one of them.

If she's even gone to Hickstead or Aachen or lots of other shows she's had to travel.

I can tell you that if I ever qualified I'd find a way to go and love every minute of it!!!!!As I said in my first post, there was recently an interview with her in Bit magazine in Holland, in which she said she did not go to Vegas last year because the horse does not travel well. The trip to Athens was not a good one.

dutchmike
Jan. 10, 2008, 01:55 PM
So Silvia is not going. Her horse, her right to do what she thinks is best. The Swiss team not going is ridiculous. If you only have one rider and the others are just extra lugage then it shouldn't have been a team to start with. I am sure she has reasons not to go. It can't have been a easy decision.

The whole team pulling out is just sour grapes and childish

freestyle2music
Jan. 10, 2008, 02:02 PM
But - would your horse?

It's a LOT of stress to put a horse under for that kind of trip. You don't just put 'em on the trailer and take them out in to a stall!

http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/news/397/82281.html


Horsey would have to make the trip to the quarantine facility in Europe, one week quarantine, a plane ride to HK, further 10 days quarantine, about 2 weeks of Olympic events, plane ride back to Europe and presumably another week of quarantine and another trailer ride home. Do quarantined horses have their regular grooms quarantined with them, and do they get their regular exercise, which would require that riders be quarantined also? That's a lot of stress.

Do you know how much time the horses had to spend in quarantaine for the Sydney Olympics ? Much more !. And the Flight to Sydney toke much longer.

Believe me there is much more to it :yes:

hey101
Jan. 10, 2008, 02:23 PM
<ESG madly waving hand in the air> ME! Seoul, Barcelona and Atlanta weren't any worse than HK will be. And I'd give a major body part to be as pampered as the equine athletes will be in HK. Get a grip. Just because you don't choose to ride when the temperature is over 75, doesn't mean the rest of the world follows suit.

Do you honestly think that all the participating countries would send teams if the conditions were truly that bad? You're getting carried away. No one's going to die. Well, at least, no one's going to die from the climate. Usually, one event rider or horse is seriously injured at every international competition, so I can't speak to that.


There is a similar discussion ongoing on the Eventing board. The general consensus is that the climate, while challenging, is not the major issue. The air quality is a major issue. Unless you have traveled or lived in SE Asia, as a number of us have, you have no idea what it is like to be in a place where you can see the soot and smog and ash in the air, and even worse FEEL it settling into your lungs. I lived in SE Asia for a year and a half, traveling widely, and the impact of the air quality on my lungs affects me to this day.

ESG
Jan. 10, 2008, 03:16 PM
Guess the folks in LA would have some experience with that, eh?

I guess I'm wondering, along with everyone else, about the timing. Surely, this woman knew what the air quality and all the other conditions were, in HK. Surely, she knew a while back that her horse didn't travel well. Surely, she knew that her OTHER horse didn't travel well. As others have said, this is the reason she's giving; doesn't mean it's the real reason.

And I find it very unlikely that someone intelligent and capable enough to train and compete a horse successfully at international GP, isn't capable of figuring out that her horse isn't suited to a particular competition. Or, if she reallly is that stupid, to not give her coach and teammates sufficient notice to replace her. This smacks of, "It's all about me", an attitude that the Swiss OC seems to share. :rolleyes:

Mozart
Jan. 10, 2008, 03:20 PM
There is a similar discussion ongoing on the Eventing board. The general consensus is that the climate, while challenging, is not the major issue. The air quality is a major issue. Unless you have traveled or lived in SE Asia, as a number of us have, you have no idea what it is like to be in a place where you can see the soot and smog and ash in the air, and even worse FEEL it settling into your lungs. I lived in SE Asia for a year and a half, traveling widely, and the impact of the air quality on my lungs affects me to this day.

Would this not be an issue for the human athletes as well? Or is HK substantially worse than Beijing?

Coreene
Jan. 10, 2008, 03:32 PM
ESG, air in LA is like the Alps compared to HK.

You know, something could have happened at Chez Ikle after January 1 that made going to HK impossible. We'll probably never know, but far be it for me to judge that position unless I was in the same one myself.

ToN Farm
Jan. 10, 2008, 03:57 PM
Seoul, Barcelona and Atlanta weren't any worse than HK will be. And I'd give a major body part to be as pampered as the equine athletes will be in HK. Get a grip. Just because you don't choose to ride when the temperature is over 75, doesn't mean the rest of the world follows suit.
You're right, I don't ride when the heat index is too high. Just because you (living in Texas) and others that live in sweltering climates ride when it's 100 degrees and humid, doesn't doesn't make it ok. I don't know what I would do if I lived in a hot state. Maybe I wouldn't own a horse. The fact is that I don't have that problem and I do schedule my rides around the weather, and that includes shows too. I feel the same way about Seoul, Spain, etc. Frankly, I don't even pay attention to where the Olympics is being held, because I am not interested in the outcome. As for getting a grip, I think what these Olympic horses have to endure is a lot worse than RK and all the other stuff most of you rant about.


Do you honestly think that all the participating countries would send teams if the conditions were truly that bad? Umm, yes I do.....sorry. The temperature is commonly 95 degrees with 95 degree humidity. Add to that the air quality. That is not bad??

grayarabs
Jan. 10, 2008, 04:09 PM
In retrospect I don't think HK should have been chosen. After reading about the heat, humidity and the pollution - I think it was a bad choice - for humans and horses.
I did not realize the pollution was what it is there. I think the horses will have the worst of it - with the travel - and with the competitions. I don't think I would send a horse.
The teams have not been chosen yet have they? I wonder what other owners/riders/countries are thinking about this as the time gets closer. Any more second thoughts? I don't feel good about this at all. I love horses in the Olympics - but not like this.

Coreene
Jan. 10, 2008, 04:26 PM
Too bad they can't do it like they did in 1956, when the Olympics were in Melbourne but the equestrian events were in Stockholm. It's not like you're going to have a big Olympic "feel" anyhow, being so far from Beijing. Would have been much more civilized to have it at, say, Aachen. ;)

kansasgal
Jan. 10, 2008, 04:48 PM
Someone posted the news last night on this forum. Somewhere I read that there is no horse racing during that time, because it is typhoon season, and the potential for truely awful weather is too great......

Too bad Silvia made the decision so late. But I'm sure she must have had a lot of pressure on her to go.

Reminds me of a runaway bride......

After reading about the length of the trip, and the conditions there,

I would never want to put one of my horses through a trip like that. It is an "honor that I dream not of....."

Yes, why couldn't the dressage comptetition be held somewhere else like Aachen?
Are there even any Chinese riders competing?

Thanks and best wishes from Kansas.

enjoytheride
Jan. 10, 2008, 05:31 PM
Here is the olympic stadium under construction, notice the smog.

http://travel.webshots.com/photo/2742931070091632405PRVbST

belambi
Jan. 10, 2008, 06:55 PM
interesting article here

http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/olympics/2008-01/08/content_6378429.htm

ESG
Jan. 10, 2008, 07:21 PM
You're right, I don't ride when the heat index is too high. Just because you (living in Texas) and others that live in sweltering climates ride when it's 100 degrees and humid, doesn't doesn't make it ok. I don't know what I would do if I lived in a hot state. Maybe I wouldn't own a horse. The fact is that I don't have that problem and I do schedule my rides around the weather, and that includes shows too. I feel the same way about Seoul, Spain, etc. Frankly, I don't even pay attention to where the Olympics is being held, because I am not interested in the outcome. As for getting a grip, I think what these Olympic horses have to endure is a lot worse than RK and all the other stuff most of you rant about.

Oh, I see. Now, anyone who rides when it's hot, is being cruel to his/her horse, according to you.

Ohhh-kay. :rolleyes:


Umm, yes I do.....sorry. The temperature is commonly 95 degrees with 95 degree humidity. Add to that the air quality. That is not bad??

Take away the air quality, and you've just perfectly described a cooler than average summer day in south Florida. And no, the horses don't die, and the riders don't, either.

Get a grip.

Equibrit
Jan. 10, 2008, 08:11 PM
Do you know how much time the horses had to spend in quarantaine for the Sydney Olympics ? Much more !. And the Flight to Sydney toke much longer.

Believe me there is much more to it :yes:

Sydney is not in discussion. (You aren't allowed to toke on international flights!)

Equibrit
Jan. 10, 2008, 08:18 PM
Unfortunately it is smog that YOUR money has paid for!

freestyle2music
Jan. 10, 2008, 08:27 PM
I'd like to know where on earth she gets the figure of 5 1/2 weeks of travelling? Will she be away from home for 5 1/2 weeks? yeah, will she actually be travelling for that length of time. Heck no! Is every show she attends one at which she can sleep in her own bed at home every night? Didn't she go to the Olympics in Australia or Seoul or Atlanta or Los Angeles? She must have gone to one of them.

If she's even gone to Hickstead or Aachen or lots of other shows she's had to travel.

I can tell you that if I ever qualified I'd find a way to go and love every minute of it!!!!!

Maybee this is not about the horses, but about the age of Silvia herself ;)

Reynard Ridge
Jan. 10, 2008, 08:37 PM
ESG, air in LA is like the Alps compared to HK.

And worse in Beijing than in HK. In China, "pollution" is a weather pattern: we have sunny days, rainy days, snowy days and pollution days - where a thick smog of pollution/smog settles over cities.

Debate it all you want, it was hot and humid in Atlanta, but the quality of the air here ("here" being relative - I'm in Nanjing, not HK or Beijing) is significantly worse.

J-Lu
Jan. 10, 2008, 09:03 PM
You're right, I don't ride when the heat index is too high. Just because you (living in Texas) and others that live in sweltering climates ride when it's 100 degrees and humid, doesn't doesn't make it ok. I don't know what I would do if I lived in a hot state. Maybe I wouldn't own a horse.

Ummm, those of us who live in incubator environments (like south eastern TX) have a little trick: our bodies adapt. They're called heat shock proteins, among other cellular changes. There are alot of other physiological tricks, too, that allow humans and horses to excercise in hot temps (within limits, of course). It's why we're freezing in 50 degree weather, which is balmy to someone living in Canada.

J.

ride-n-tx
Jan. 10, 2008, 09:35 PM
So Silvia is not going. Her horse, her right to do what she thinks is best. The Swiss team not going is ridiculous. If you only have one rider and the others are just extra lugage then it shouldn't have been a team to start with. I am sure she has reasons not to go. It can't have been a easy decision.

The whole team pulling out is just sour grapes and childish

I'm not sure what exactly is being debated in this particular thread, but i agree with what dutchmike said. "her right to do what she thinks is best".

i have no idea what it is like to travel internationally with competition horses. how in the world they keep up the horses' training while going through quarantine, exhausting flights, and jet lag is beyond me.

as for the heat and air quality; sure it is temporary, sure you can manage it, and sure horses do survive here in the armpit of the south (Houston, TX to be exact), but i don't know what her horse is like.

it's not up to the horse whether it travels or not. the people caring for them have a responsibility to do what is in the best interest of the horses' health and wellbeing.

I'm not sure about the rest of the swiss team though. that's another debate i suppose ;)

snoopy
Jan. 10, 2008, 09:40 PM
Maybee this is not about the horses, but about the age of Silvia herself ;)


Theo, come on....
Sivia is ONLY 106 years old. :eek:;)

canyonoak
Jan. 10, 2008, 09:40 PM
The team at the Olympics will be THREE horses.
SIlvia Ikle is pulling out TWO horses, the top two from the Swiss National Championships, as well as their one credible international star.

So she is effectively removing 2/3 or 66 per cent of the team.

Qualifiers are in the next few months.
I do not think Switzerland has an abundance of internationally competitive GP horses hanging around.

Equibrit
Jan. 10, 2008, 09:40 PM
Debate it all you want, it was hot and humid in Atlanta, significantly

It really wasn't. It was unusually pleasant.

snoopy
Jan. 10, 2008, 09:41 PM
It really wasn't. It was unusually pleasant.


Yes this is correct, infact it was weird!!!!

carovet
Jan. 10, 2008, 11:15 PM
Please note that you can't say "except for the air quality" it was the same at place X---without air quality none of the other conditions are even a topic of conversation. You can tolerate a lot of heat/humidity if you acclimate appropriately to it. Not being able to breath due to poor air quality (especially in high humidity) is a whole different level of health and safety challenge.

I love that the olympics are a goal of top equestrians (and little girls on ponies) and don't want to see them taken out of the olympic games. I think it is a real shame that the equestrian competitors of '08 will not be able to be part of the entire "olympic experience." I have been told by past competitors that some of their favorite memories are sitting around a table in olympic village eating pizza with international weight lifters, soccer players, etc, and connecting with other top althletes from other fields.

China got the bid on false pretenses, having the equestrian venue not in mainland china is a violation of the intent of having a single host country/location for the olympics. So I have to admit that I am bitter about the split location, even if it may be a better health location (or is it just easier?) as long as the complex doesn't blow away during typhoons.

HOWEVER, despite that I want to see the equestrian games remain part of the olympics, I wouldn't take my horse to that HK environment, despite knowing it would be an absolutely miserable decision to make and one that would cause a lot of backlash if you were one of the team anchors (and 2/3 of the team to boot)-- luckily its not an issue this year from me :)

I do work my horse in those kinds of temperatures and humidities here during the summer, and they can be managed most days, but you can't control, protect, or train for polluted air. And if neither rider nor horse can breath freely, they are not going to put in their best performance, not to mention they will also be predisposed to respiratory problems and infections.

I agree with the runaway bride scenario, sometimes it is easy to think that you'll be able to deal with a scenario when it is far in the future, however as the time starts to come closer the reality of the situation can be overwhelming when you really examine the details and not just the big picture.

ESG
Jan. 10, 2008, 11:34 PM
I don't buy that. Silvia knew the Games were in HK. She says her horse doesn't travel well. Common sense should have dictated that she not bother to compete for a berth on the team. But since she did, she now has a responsibility to that team. What, you think it's okay for her just to shrug off the honor and say, "Just kidding!", and not have any repercussions? :eek:

FleetwoodStarr
Jan. 11, 2008, 12:36 AM
Some people are saying how bad it was for her to wait so long. But possibly (I really have no clue, this is just a guess) she had already been talking to the Swiss team and chef d'equipe etc etc about this issue she had before eurodressage found out and wrote an article? It could just be that Astrid only knew about this after the team officially announced it (once again I don't know, for all I know Astrid hides outside Silvia's barn to keep up on the latest scoop :lol:

Moll
Jan. 11, 2008, 03:16 AM
God, people, have you never had trouble deciding something major? Like "do I buy this house", "do I go to this college" or even "do I cut my hair short"? Not the same thing as this, but in a free society, people do have the right to change their minds. You can criticize her timing if you like, but I cannot for the life of me see how anyone can bay for blood ("repercussions") because she decides not to put her horse at risk.

I think Ikle did a good thing, and I just don't see how anybody can justify criticising her decision because it is bad for the future of the equestrian sport in the Olympics.

For one thing, a horse becoming sick or even dying because of the weather/pollution is much worse press than one or two being left at home before the event (which is probably no news globally in non-horsey circles).

For another, and this is the one reason that actually matters: The welfare of the horse must always come first. Always. The horse doesn't have a choice in the matter. People do. The only way you can justify having the equestrian sports in the Olympics at all is if the professionals (= the riders themselves) prove to have good enough morals, knowledge and character not to bring the Olympics into disrepute by letting their ambition override the truly important issues, like the well being of their horses.

For the ones who say China shouldn't have got the games because they put the equestrian sports in Hong Kong: the venue of the Olympics is not decided on the base of such a minor sport (which is already expensive and hanging in the balance, in danger of being dropped altogether) as horse riding. It wouldn't have mattered.

Rusty Stirrup
Jan. 11, 2008, 06:10 AM
Just think of all the inexpensive, knock-off tack you could get. Just be sure to bring all your own feed.

freestyle2music
Jan. 11, 2008, 07:11 AM
Claartje van Andel of DressageDirect just came back from a visit to HongKong, where she was able to inspect the showgrounds. As stated after the try-out games the problem will certainly not be the horses ! Stables have air-conditioning, cooler-fans, ice etc.. I just watch the press-conference of the German team and they came exactly to the same conclussion. Most countries have already started their fitness program for the competitors (see the video i have posted). So what's left is the polution, however since trainingtimes and competitions will be in the early morning and/or late evening, it is estimated that the sea-wind will blow this polution away. But let's see and wait when the games begin. Because Silvia Ikle acted like she did, she gave the impression that all other competitors are crazy and horse unfriendly. I truly believe that 95% of her descission is based on the fact that Salieri doesn't travel so well. And maybe Silvia thought she could solve this problem with Salieri before august 2008.

Putting extra attention to the environmental circumstances in Hongkong, will give the IOC a very good excuse to scratch the (very expensive) equestrian sport from the Olympic Calendar.

And believe me, you can come up with all kinds of new plans, but when the Equestrian sport is banned from the biggest sport-happening in the world, this will have a major impact for the further development of the sport.

Theo

Added to Add


Die nachstehenden Fakten waren ausschlaggebend für diesen Entscheid:


Ungewohntes, feuchtes (bis zu 97% Luftfeuchtigkeit) und heisses (bis weit über 30° C) subtropisches Klima. Taifun-Saison (Juli – September) mit teil- weise orkanartigen Stürmen. *)


Die Pferde werden 5.1/2 Wochen (17.7. – ca. 25.8.) unterwegs sein (inkl. 7 Tage Quarantäne in Aachen und 10 Tage “post arrival isolation“ in Hong Kong)


2 Langstreckenflüge von mindestens 11.1/4 Stunden reine Flugdauer (Amsterdam - Hong Kong non-stop)


6 Stunden Zeitverschiebung (2x)


Salieri CH hatte schon Probleme mit dem kurzen Flug nach Athen zu den Olympischen Spielen 2004


Romario hat bei hohen Temperaturen Probleme mit der Atmung und könnte bei den in Hong Kong herrschenden klimatischen Verhältnissen niemals die von ihm erwarteten Höchstleistungen erbringen.

ToN Farm
Jan. 11, 2008, 08:51 AM
Stables have air-conditioning, cooler-fans
The doors and windows of the stable would have to be closed in order for air-conditioning to do its' job. The air that gets cooled is the polluted air from outside.....no?

fooler
Jan. 11, 2008, 09:15 AM
The doors and windows of the stable would have to be closed in order for air-conditioning to do its' job. The air that gets cooled is the polluted air from outside.....no?

Filters. We all have them on our heating/cooling systems and are encouraged to change often.
Also the air can be re-cycled. Depending on how bad the air is polluted, they may have to change or clean the filters quite often.

snoopy
Jan. 11, 2008, 09:17 AM
Putting extra attention to the environmental circumstances in Hongkong, will give the IOC a very good excuse to scratch the (very expensive) equestrian sport from the Olympic Calendar.



Theo

Added to Add[/QUOTE]



But surely environmental issues are a valid concern, no?

freestyle2music
Jan. 11, 2008, 09:22 AM
Thanks to Claartje van Andel of Dressagedirect.com

Here is the most recent picture of the horse-stables in Hongkong

www.horsedances.net/StablesHongKong.jpg

ToN Farm
Jan. 11, 2008, 10:15 AM
Light, bright, and airy.

Tiki
Jan. 11, 2008, 12:53 PM
Or, seculeded, cool and comfortable.

Mozart
Jan. 11, 2008, 12:59 PM
Claartje van Andel of DressageDirect just came back from a visit to HongKong, where she was able to inspect the showgrounds. As stated after the try-out games the problem will certainly not be the horses ! Stables have air-conditioning, cooler-fans, ice etc.. I just watch the press-conference of the German team and they came exactly to the same conclussion. Most countries have already started their fitness program for the competitors (see the video i have posted). So what's left is the polution, however since trainingtimes and competitions will be in the early morning and/or late evening, it is estimated that the sea-wind will blow this polution away. But let's see and wait when the games begin. Because Silvia Ikle acted like she did, she gave the impression that all other competitors are crazy and horse unfriendly. I truly believe that 95% of her descission is based on the fact that Salieri doesn't travel so well. And maybe Silvia thought she could solve this problem with Salieri before august 2008.

Putting extra attention to the environmental circumstances in Hongkong, will give the IOC a very good excuse to scratch the (very expensive) equestrian sport from the Olympic Calendar.

And believe me, you can come up with all kinds of new plans, but when the Equestrian sport is banned from the biggest sport-happening in the world, this will have a major impact for the further development of the sport.

Theo

Added to Add

I must agree with this. If you want your sport to be in the Olympic games, you have to pony up. So to speak. If not, well, that is something else entirely.

If the IOC, contrary to all reason, awards the Olympics to China, they must have thought the HUMAN athletes would not suffer from the pollution or that accomadations could be made. Is it reasonable to think the horses are going to suffer more than the humans? I know some will counter that the humans choose, the horses don't but come on...would horses choose the circumstances they compete under anyway? Let's not go down that slippery slope.

If it is so incredibly unhealthy to expose athletes, human or animal, to this pollution for a limited period of time, why are any countries attending at all? Horses aren't the only athletes that will be working hard and breathing in the air. What about human track athletes? Rowers? etc etc.

snoopy
Jan. 11, 2008, 02:17 PM
Horses aren't the only athletes that will be working hard and breathing in the air. What about human track athletes? Rowers? etc etc.


But the HUMAN athletes will not be extering themselves to the extent that the horse will be in HK...the rest are competing in what I can only guess is a much healthier environment. It must be taken into account that the locals choose not to race during this time of year...they must have a valid reason to stop such a lucrative business.

Mozart
Jan. 11, 2008, 02:26 PM
But the HUMAN athletes will not be extering themselves to the extent that the horse will be in HK...the rest are competing in what I can only guess is a much healthier environment. It must be taken into account that the locals choose not to race during this time of year...they must have a valid reason to stop such a lucrative business.

Do you really think so? Is HK much worse than Beijing? Everyone says Beijing is awful too. I am thinking of the human athletes in Beijing. Is it reasonable to say horse athletes in HK will suffer more than human athletes in Beijing. I don't accept that a horse athlete works harder than a human athlete, especially a track athlete. Marathon is outside, rowing is outside....

Moll
Jan. 11, 2008, 02:28 PM
If it is so incredibly unhealthy to expose athletes, human or animal, to this pollution for a limited period of time, why are any countries attending at all? Horses aren't the only athletes that will be working hard and breathing in the air. What about human track athletes? Rowers? etc etc.

Human athletes do not have people on their back with whips and/or spurs on, making them go.

Mozart
Jan. 11, 2008, 02:45 PM
Human athletes do not have people on their back with whips and/or spurs on, making them go.


Well then, the FEI should say to the IOC "Thanks but no thanks, we won't take part in your Games anymore. We will hold our World Championships in nice, temperate climates and pphhhtt to you"

Because, I'm afraid, that is the only logical conclusion to arrive at if the equestrians pick and choose what country they want to play in.

Equibrit
Jan. 11, 2008, 03:15 PM
I don't know about you guys - but it's easier if you live in a very humid climate to forego the AC if you want to perform outdoors. I don't think it is a good idea to have horses living in the AC and then ask them to go out and perform in the extremely humid conditions that they are not accustomed to. I think you're going to see more equine problems because of the AC.

snoopy
Jan. 11, 2008, 03:39 PM
[QUOTE=Mozart;2929773]Do you really think so? Is HK much worse than Beijing? Everyone says Beijing is awful too. I am thinking of the human athletes in Beijing. Is it reasonable to say horse athletes in HK will suffer more than human athletes in Beijing. I don't accept that a horse athlete works harder than a human athlete, especially a track athlete. Marathon is outside, rowing is outside....[/QUOTE



I am talking about the perceived differences in air quality between HK and Beijing...(where Human athletes will be expected to extert themselves) whlslt the equine atletes will be exterting themselves in HK...an area believed to be of far more pollution.

snoopy
Jan. 11, 2008, 03:40 PM
I don't know about you guys - but it's easier if you live in a very humid climate to forego the AC if you want to perform outdoors. I don't think it is a good idea to have horses living in the AC and then ask them to go out and perform in the extremely humid conditions that they are not accustomed to. I think you're going to see more equine problems because of the AC.



Absolutely agree!!! I do not think that we are doing the horse any favours by changing the invironment in which they live and work.

Mozart
Jan. 11, 2008, 03:51 PM
Well then if HK is worse the Beijing and not fit for horses in summer....the IOC is trying really hard to get rid of the equestrians. And have very handily lobbed the ball into our court. If we say..."too hard on the horses, we can't play" they are a step closer to pushing us off the island, especially if they have spent a bunch of money to accomadate equestrian sports. Rock and a hard place, really.

Equibrit
Jan. 11, 2008, 03:54 PM
I'll wager that an AC system can circulate bacteria and viruses a lot more efficiently that the sea breeze.

Neither Bejing nor Hong Kong are suitable places to exercise horses that are not acclimatised to the prevailing conditions, and you take a risk by going there. The odds for injury/illness for horses would be lessened if the Equestrian Games were held in a more suitable climate. That would only happen if the welfare of the horses was put above all else.

RageMan
Jan. 11, 2008, 04:42 PM
Based on a first hand account, Beijing is, in fact, much worse than Hong Kong in terms of pollution. Apparently, in Beijing, there are people who have the wonderful job of cleaning the soot off of parked cars two or three times a day.

Coreene
Jan. 11, 2008, 04:55 PM
If we say..."too hard on the horses, we can't play" they are a step closer to pushing us off the island, especially if they have spent a bunch of money to accomadate equestrian sports. Rock and a hard place, really.True.

Of course, that is not what she said. And it's not like masses of riders are choosing not to go. She's not going. There might be a few others. And those empty spots will be filled by others.

Dixon
Jan. 11, 2008, 05:02 PM
Do you really think so? Is HK much worse than Beijing? Everyone says Beijing is awful too.

Do not forget, everyone, that it is the powers in Beijing that are running the China Olympics, and the equestrian venue happens to be in Hong Kong. The air quality is almost a negligible factor compared to whether the horse facilities, footing, bedding, water, food, and anything else not personally imported from each participating country will be of sufficient quality. Decisions about what kinds of resources and preparation to devote to the equestrian facilities and circumstances are made by some of the same people or bodies who allow contaminated human food, pet food, toothpaste and toys to be manufactured and exported. THAT is what is scary about sending horses to the China Olympics, and why any country that chooses not to participate is making the right decision. What's good for horse and human welfare IS good for equestrian sport.

ltw
Jan. 11, 2008, 07:54 PM
Before making the statements do a little research on Hong Kong's average temperature and humidity level in the summer. It is way worse than Atlanta and the air quality is unbelievably bad, 10 times worse than what Alpharetta was ten years ago. The question is why does the Olympic Committee select such a location?

Dixon
Jan. 11, 2008, 08:05 PM
Yeah, the problem is the Olympic Committee didn't focus on Hong Kong whatsoever, let alone any preparation or facilities for the equestrian events. The famously corrupt Olympic Committee was wined and dined in Beijing, their palms were sufficiently greased, they bought the "pity Beijing" campaign by China to win the 2008 Games after miserably losing its bid for the 2000 Games to Sydney, and the welfare of equine athletes was the furthest thing from the Committee members' minds in awarding the Games to China. But it should be foremost on OUR minds. No matter what city of China the horses have to go to, they will be in serious danger.

ShowjumpersUSA
Jan. 11, 2008, 08:22 PM
I just came back from Hong Kong not too long ago. I had the time of my life! What a great experience. I loved it and can hardly wait to go back.

I just had to say something after reading all of the above negative comments about the city. Granted, it will be hot and humid during the Olympics but, based on my experience, the city itself is wonderful and the people couldn't have been more hospitable.

JSwan
Jan. 11, 2008, 08:29 PM
Light, bright, and airy.

Yes, it is. That must have cost a pretty penny to build such a nice stable.

I usually just lurk here -but I read the article in COTH and I just got the impression there is a lot more to the story.

I don't doubt her concern over the animals ability to withstand travel. But the timing...... it's all just very very odd. And it is also rather odd that she's throwing all the other competitors under the bus. Many people had similar concerns with the Atlanta Games - (I was there for the 3-day) and I was very pleased with the efforts made to ensure the horses welfare was paramount. The weather cooperated, thankfully.

If the location had just been revealed; her announcement would make more sense. I have this nagging feeling that there is more to the story. Though I'm not sure I care to know what it is....

Too bad for the Swiss.

petitefilly
Jan. 11, 2008, 09:18 PM
The question is why does the Olympic Committee select such a location?


Mainly because they do not especially care about the "horse events",which by the way are on the verge of being disbanded from the competitions anyway. Too expensive, too much space, too little spectators, too little overall viewer interest; it has been talked about since at least '84 about eliminating the horse events.

AS to why a competitor would not want to go? Let's see? The horse travels poorly? Good enough, you want your horse to have a good life. That's enough for me. You have no way to win a medal anyway? So, what's the point? Team loyalty? Sad, but it does not have enough cache to keep the welfare of the horse above it. Too bad, but C'est la vie.

:) Hong Kong sounds like hell for horses. Frankly, I'm surprised more competitors are not opting out.

Moll
Jan. 12, 2008, 05:59 AM
But to address the OP / topic name (this is bad for the EQ sport) - no, it ain't. Lots of things are bad for the equestrian sport (Power and Paint, eventing deaths comes to mind) but this ain't it.

fish
Jan. 12, 2008, 09:00 AM
Oh, I see. Now, anyone who rides when it's hot, is being cruel to his/her horse, according to you.

Ohhh-kay. :rolleyes:



Take away the air quality, and you've just perfectly described a cooler than average summer day in south Florida. And no, the horses don't die, and the riders don't, either.

Get a grip.

I moved my horse from Massachusetts to Southern Florida during August 25 years ago and stayed there for 2 years. Not understanding the impact on his system of the heat and humidity, I worked him as usual from the week he arrived. First, he washed out. Then his hair fell out, he lost his ability to sweat and started panting. During the winters, and when we moved further north, some of his ability to sweat returned, but his respiratory system was permanently damaged.

Fully 20% of the horses who come to Southern Florida from northern states end up suffering from anyhydrosis (loss of the ability to sweat). While horses (and people) born in such climates are acclimated to it and do fine, those who come from cooler climates must take serious precautions against the dangers posed by heat exhaustion in such climates. My horse lost his ability to sweat: I passed out in a barn aisle trying to clean stalls at the same rate I did in New England. Nobody died, and perhaps I wasn't being "cruel" to ride my horse in that heat, but I was being pretty darned stupid, and my horse suffered for it for the rest of his life.

Eireamon
Jan. 12, 2008, 03:18 PM
Its all been said in previous posts.

China and Hong Kong were a bad decision for Olympic Sports altogether.

It will be a real shame if the IOC use this as an excuse to kill of Equestrian sports.

Its extremely hard for Equestrian competitiors in the Southern Hemisphere to compete at olympic level equestrain sports anyway.
Long long trips/quarantines etc are a fact of life. Many horses just never come home as we just cannot afford to bring them home. Our Eq Fed is 3rd world in comparison to larger more populated countries. There just is not the money.

NZ sent one horse to Jerez for Dressage. The horse was injured in travel. Shit happans. :(

The Europeans have it really really sweet compared to us. This riders actions and timing are very selfish and irrepsonsible.

At this point it will be a miracle if NZ even get to send any horses to HKG. Qualifiers which were to be held in Australia have been postponed as Australia have been in the grips of a EI epidemic since August and due to this there is a travel ban in place.
If NZ send any horses to Australia they will be held their until EI is under control.

Shhesssh have something to really complain about. Europe and the US have it great compared to us down South.

Equibrit
Jan. 12, 2008, 03:30 PM
It's not such a disaster if equestrian sports are removed from the Olympics. It would be an opportunity to have World Class competitions at sensible venues. Some governing bodies would have to make adjustments in their budgets (no junkets etc) but I'm sure they would flourish in time. Olympic decisions are made on the basis of money - nothing to do with sports, and even less to do with horses!

Foxtrot's
Jan. 12, 2008, 04:47 PM
For the first time - ever - I think, I agree with Equibrit. Also, when a rider puts themselves up for selection for the Olympics, they know, years in advance the location and should bow out then. HK/Beijing and a host of other locations are tough on athletes. Olympics generate a lot of national pride and the countries feel let down when there is a last minute change of heart. The Federations know the deal, the athletes know the deal. Then there are the selection trials themselves and I don't really blame some riders not wanting to jump ridiculous hoops just to be at the big "O".

Eireamon
Jan. 12, 2008, 07:19 PM
I do somewhat agree with you Equibrit BUT... at least the IOC try and spread around the Olympics so that regions are not too disadvantaged.

If Equestrian sport at the Olympics is killed off then you can bet your bottom dollar that all the big competitions will be European or US based. The big money countries who dominate Equestrian sport will hold everyone else to ransom.
European and the US Federation totally threw their dollies out of the cot when Sydney was announced as an Olympic venue. Shhesssh what spoiled brats.

Its already tough enough for the Asia Pacific region to be competitive yet NZ and Australia against the odds dominated Eventing for 20 years. Our riders did it really really tough.
Many had to give up family and life for years to base themselves in Europe so that they could qualify. Pretty much all of our top level Showjumpers are based in Europe and one even changed her nationality so she could have a shot at riding at the Olympics (at the
time NZ could not even get together enough riders to form a team) She rides for Bulgaria.
And yet we hear of spoiled riders saying they cannot be away for a month so that they can go to Hong Kong. :( Talk about prima donnas.

Hong Kong is not a good venue. Thats accepted but by these riders doing the spoiled brat attitude is just not on. It gives the IOC just the ammunition they need.

Let them come and live in NZ or Australia for a while and see how tough it really is.

ToN Farm
Jan. 12, 2008, 07:34 PM
one even changed her nationality so she could have a shot at riding at the Olympics

That someone would do that in order to ride in the Olympics is beyond my comprehension. I hope she had a good time.

dutchmike
Jan. 12, 2008, 07:50 PM
That someone would do that in order to ride in the Olympics is beyond my comprehension. I hope she had a good time.

Oh they do it all the time and keep a double nationallity and not only in the Equestrian part but also in the Athletics, Soccer etc

Eireamon
Jan. 13, 2008, 06:41 AM
I beleive you can only have dual nationality if you have parents from the other country.

Samantha had to to relinquish her NZ passport in order to become a Bulgarian. I am not sure of the procedure if she wants to become a NZer again but I know she could not ride for NZ as well as Bulgaria.

Samantha McIntosh is the daughter of NZ showjumping family Penny (Stevenson) and Colin McIntosh (now based in Californina with his new wife Toni)

From Pennys (mothers) website....
" Sam is regarded as one of the most stylish and effective female showjump riders on the world stage, and is the most successful international showjump rider to come out of New Zealand. In the last few years she has been ranked in the top 50 on the FEI World Ranking list.

Sam’s major competitions have been with Royal Discovery at the Sydney 2000 Olympics, where she produced a clear and 4 fault Nations Cup result (Bulgarian Team). With the same horse, she finished 13th in the World Cup Final in Las Vegas that same year.

Sam’s next big star was the French-bred mare Hildon Fleche Rouge, who she rode into 11th place at the World Championships in Jerez, Spain in 2002 (she was the second highest placed female rider). She then finished 13th at the European Championships at Donaueschingen, Germany in 2003. Just prior to the Athens Olympics, Fleche Rouge was sold to Dutch interests.

Sam’s current top horse is Loxley, who she has carefully produced over the last two years. She was delighted with his recent 17th place finish at the World Championships in Aachen 2006.

Samantha is now running her own business from the Hirtenhof stable of Patricia Luthi and Gunther Orshel in Aach, southern Germany. Sam has some very committed and dedicated new owners of some super talented youngsters, so her future with top international horse power is looking good.

On a recent trip to Florida to compete in the Wellington Horse Show, Samantha placed 2nd in the USA Jumper Classic and was consistently the highest placed European based rider."

fish
Jan. 13, 2008, 08:44 AM
I beleive you can only have dual nationality if you have parents from the other country.

"

I think the rules vary depending on the countries concerned. I know quite a few people have dual USA and Israeli citizenship and compete on Israeli teams.

dutchmike
Jan. 13, 2008, 08:50 AM
I beleive you can only have dual nationality if you have parents from the other country.

Nope there are plenty of other ways ;)

slc2
Jan. 13, 2008, 08:51 AM
Why qualify horses when you aren't going to go due to climate? Even if someone knew ahead of time they might not go, they really wouldn't have any choice career wise. The Olympics won't be in a hot place every time, those horses or other horses may be ready in another 4 years, and there are few other riders who will have qualified before in that country...The rider who has qualified horses before is more likely to qualify again, and get on the team, and get more judging jobs, more clinician jobs, more training of students and horses. Plus, it adds to the resale price of the horses that got on the team. 20 yrs from now, the person's C.V. will say got 2 horses on the team for olympics in '08', and not 'didn't go to '08'.

I'm not sure a person would choose to avoid that.

As for changing nationalities to be able to compete, that's on paper only, and may not be even for a long time....I'm not sure it really means that much except the person gets a chance to qualify for a team when they wouldn't in their home country. It goes right along with the 'Follow the Dream' of riding in the charity hunter show by the skin of one's teeth, or not having a qualification system and choosing whatever level one wants to ride at - so it can't be bad :) .

American riders have done this too, I don't think it's unusual.

egontoast
Jan. 13, 2008, 09:12 AM
It goes right along with the 'Follow the Dream' of riding in the charity hunter show by the skin of one's teeth, or not having a qualification system ...

Kathy J, she's not done with you yet.:cry:

snoopy
Jan. 13, 2008, 09:16 AM
The FEI as of last year have changed their policy on change of nationality.
At the age of 21 you must now declare your nationality with them and it is permanent. No changing!!! UNLESS, you are a dual citizen and you GIVE UP your passport to the country in which you are registered with the FEI and there for are only a citizen of one country...then you may register with the FEI for that country. This rule came into effect in june of last year. And also before this rule came into effect, you had to be registered with the FEI in the new nationality for 3 years or you could not be put forth for an Olympics. This rule did not apply for Pan Ams or WEG, only for the Olympics. This was an IOC (the 3 year thing) ruling not an FEI ruling. The IOC wanted to prevent countries from gaining unfair advantage by naming athletes to their teams right before the games who held dual citizinship and previously had been competeing in their other citizenship.

This was made very clear as a friend and I tried to change nationality just days after the new FEI rule came into effect. So those of you who hold two passports, you are either stuck with the current FEI registration, or if you are declaring for the first time...choose carefully!!!....or you must, according to the FEI, give up the citizinship of the nationality you currently hold with the FEI before they will allow a change to the other nationality you hold.

freestyle2music
Jan. 13, 2008, 09:33 AM
That people change their nationality (or better using their second pasport) is getting more and more populair over here. This has much to do with "living for their dreams". And many times it has worked (Sven Rothenberger, Franke Sloothaak etc...). Mostly these riders don't think that they have gotten a fair change to qualify for their country, so they have decided to use their second pasport. And in the cases mentioned above it worked out, but in the most cases it doesn't work at all, and people make a fool of themselves.

That's also (flamesuit on and loaded) I don't like the Olympic thought, because the result of this globalisation and the Olympic thought is that we have to watch all these people who are almost drowning during swimming, or who are doubled 10 times during the 10.000 meter, and (to stay within my bounderies) make a disaster out of a Grandprix test, while so many top-riders have to stay home.

Added @ Snoopy

Yes you are right, however this is all theoretical, in the real world it is different, taking in consideration that we don't even know the (real) day of birth of many competitors coming from these exotic countries, and you can have many names in these kind of countries.

Kathy Johnson
Jan. 13, 2008, 09:49 AM
That's also (flamesuit on and loaded) I don't like the Olympic thought, because the result of this globalisation and the Olympic thought is that we have to watch all these people who are almost drowning during swimming, or who are doubled 10 times during the 10.000 meter, and (to stay within my bounderies) make a disaster out of a Grandprix test, while so many top-riders have to stay home.

I think that much was lost when the amateur component was removed from the Olympics. It was a venue for amateur athletes around the world to represent their countries. Pros already get to do that. It was one of the few perks for struggling amateurs.

Recently an Olympic female runner from some backward country struggled in at the very end of a marathon . She made a disaster of it, where so many better runners stayed home. She was doubled 10 times, she almost drowned! But, she came from a country where formerly women were not allowed to compete, at all. She was considered a hero in her home country, where women still live behind veils.

So, I hope the Olympic spirit still carries over to all countries, and continues to be globalized. I hope it never becomes a totally professional event, where Jamaican bobsledders are banned.

freestyle2music
Jan. 13, 2008, 09:57 AM
I think that much was lost when the amateur component was removed from the Olympics. It was a venue for amateur athletes around the world to represent their countries. Pros already get to do that. It was one of the few perks for struggling amateurs.

Recently an Olympic female runner from some backward country struggled in at the very end of a marathon . She made a disaster of it, where so many better runners stayed home. She was doubled 10 times, she almost drowned! But, she came from a country where formerly women were not allowed to compete, at all. She was considered a hero in her home country, where women still live behind veils.

So, I hope the Olympic spirit still carries over to all countries, and continues to be globalized. I hope it never becomes a totally professional event, where Jamaican bobsledders are banned.

Meaning you like the SHOW and I like the SPORT.

canyonoak
Jan. 13, 2008, 10:28 AM
<<That's also (flamesuit on and loaded) I don't like the Olympic thought, because the result of this globalisation and the Olympic thought is that we have to watch all these people who are almost drowning during swimming, or who are doubled 10 times during the 10.000 meter, and (to stay within my bounderies) make a disaster out of a Grandprix test, while so many top-riders have to stay home.>>


http://www.anky.com/index.asp?page=nieuws&item=16820&lang=nl

Kathy Johnson
Jan. 13, 2008, 10:31 AM
Not so much the show, but the spirit. I think there are more ways to be an Olympian than just to be the fastest or strongest (or best at Grand Prix):

majestic in manner or bearing; superior to mundane matters
far beyond what is usual in magnitude or degree

ToN Farm
Jan. 13, 2008, 11:08 AM
The bottom line is the many competitors don't really care what country they represent, so long as they can compete in the Olympics. True? Therefore, it is not patriotic at all. Why even bother to play the national anthem at the awards ceremony.

freestyle2music
Jan. 13, 2008, 11:32 AM
The bottom line is the many competitors don't really care what country they represent, so long as they can compete in the Olympics. True? Therefore, it is not patriotic at all. Why even bother to play the national anthem at the awards ceremony.

Thats not the bottomline but the redline. And yes they are patriotic as long as that suits them. However also realise that many sporters from these exotic countries would never get the training-facilities and fundings as they stay in Zimbabwe or Nepal.

And also look at the Icespeed skaters from the USA, they have Dutch sponsors and Dutch trainers, and are also starting to talk to become a Dutch citizen and apply for a Dutch pasport.

Foxtrot's
Jan. 13, 2008, 12:18 PM
Competitors need sponsorship. In a country wher there is not enough money allocated, and an athlete/rider can obtain it by using the other half of their nationality (or appling for citizenship) it becomes necessary, if not desirable. If you are one of those people with that certain desire, grit, talent and work ethic that makes you want too be the best, to try your hardest and you end up at the top, what choice do they have? Can you fault Meredith Michaels-Beerbaum? In other instances it becomes a method of survival, like the African running talent, who have peppered the world with changes of citizenship and are making a difference back home. It is
not only lack of national pride. Some athletes feel they are not on a level playing field financially, and see a way out. I agree and I disagree...depending.

Moll
Jan. 13, 2008, 12:21 PM
The Anky link in English:

http://www.anky.com/index.asp?page=nieuws&item=16820&lang=en

...though South Africa and Zambia are two separate things, South Africa is a country.

freestyle2music
Jan. 13, 2008, 01:36 PM
Patrick is sponsored by his own equestrian federation

See. if South Africa can do it :confused:

Moll
Jan. 13, 2008, 01:57 PM
Aaargh. Let's start calling Dutch people French, too!

dutchmike
Jan. 13, 2008, 02:09 PM
Aaargh. Let's start calling Dutch people French, too!

Is that suposed to offend me?. I couldn't care less what pasport I have to be honest.

slc2
Jan. 13, 2008, 02:20 PM
I think the world can use a lot less 'patriotism' and 'nationalism' if someone is under fire for not having either when they get a different passport!

fiona
Jan. 13, 2008, 02:23 PM
So, I hope the Olympic spirit still carries over to all countries, and continues to be globalized. I hope it never becomes a totally professional event, where Jamaican bobsledders are banned.


Absolutely agree. The Olympics should be about the unifying properties of sporting achievement, the almost impossible striving for excellence and something that remains every competitors dream.
Make qualifying as hard as you like but once you've won the right to be there everyone should be supported and welcomed. Some of us are capable of looking past the winners podium and enjoy the back story.

Equibrit
Jan. 13, 2008, 02:58 PM
The Anky link in English:

http://www.anky.com/index.asp?page=nieuws&item=16820&lang=en

...though South Africa and Zambia are two separate things, South Africa is a country.

As is Zambia (in Southern Africa) Where did you people go to school?
The Zambian Horse Society no doubt receive funding from the IOC. Why else would a country like Zambia have a Horse Society! He's probably their token expense, with the rest lining the pocket of some Minister for Sport.

just for grins. An article from the Zambian Times 1964. (just after Independence)

We're going to Mars !
WITH A SPACEGIRL, TWO CATS AND A MISSIONARY
By Edward Makuka Nkoloso
Director of his own academy of Science and Space

I see the Zambia of the future as a space-age Zambia, more advanced than Russia and America. In fact, in my academy of science our thinking is already six or seven years ahead of both powers.
It is unlucky for Lusaka that I did not have the chance to run for mayor. If I had been elected, the capital city of Zambia would quickly have been another Paris, if not another New-York.If I had been mayor, Matero, Kamwala and Chilenge suburbs would quickly have been filled with flats and skyscapers. Old houses would have vanished.But never mind, we will have our Paris yet.If I had had my way Zambia would have been born with the blast of academy's rocket being launched into space. But the Independence Celebrations Comitee said that would terrify the guests and possibly the whole population. I think they were worried about the dust and noise.

CREW READY
It is a great pity. All is ready at our secret headquarters in a valley about seven miles from Lusaka. The rocket could have been launched from the Independence Stadium and Zambia would have conquered Mars only a few days after the independence. Yes, that is where we plan to go - Mars.We have been studying Mars from our telescopes at our headquarters and are now certain Mars is populated by primitive natives.Our rocket crew is ready. Specially trained spacegirl Mata Mwambwa, two cats (also specially trained) and a missionary will be launched in our first rocket.But I have warned the missionary he must not force Christianity to the people if they do not want it. One other difficulty has been holding us up. UNESCO has not reply to our request for £ 7,000,000 and we need that money for our rocket programme. Then we can lead the world science.I feel the Zambian Government should help now if we are to become Controllers of the Seventh Heaven of Interstellar space. The Government must pass strong bills to deal with the Satanic plots of our ennemies.I have known for a long time that Russian spies are operating in Zambia. Yes, and American spies are well over the town too. They are all trying to capture Mata and my cats. They want our space secrets.These people must be dealt with immediately after the independence if I am to keep my space lead. Detention without trial for all spies is what we need.Otherwise I am happy with the Government, but it must encourage youngsters to join the academy. At the moment they have knocked down my academy building in Matero. That is not good. I hope they build modern flats in its place to provide more offices for us. The capital of the new scientific Zambia must look beautiful. People from afar must not see a slum as the capital of the world's greatest scientific state. Zambians are inferior to no men in science technology. My space plans will surely be carried out.

sm
Jan. 13, 2008, 04:23 PM
Silvia Ikle has the full right to withdraw, and all the other riders have the same rights. But withdrawing the whole team ( possibly based on the fact that Silvia was the only medal candidate for Switzerland) is WRONG. Theo

Regarding Silvia Ikle, if she's doing what's right for Salieri, than that should be enough. What a horrible decision to have to make, after all their hard work to qualify. I wish them all the best.

I hope to see much more of Silvia and Salieri, as I love their partnership... stay well!!

Eireamon
Jan. 13, 2008, 09:15 PM
Changing your nationality because you cannot get in your own team and changing it because its the only hope of getting into a team because your home country cannot afford to send a team is a totally different thing.

Many Kiwi Event riders base themselves in the UK. To do that they must prove that they have at minimum one UK grandparent. If you don't you simply cannot stay for any length of time.

I even know of a Kiwi SJ rider who married an American just so he could get a greencard and base himself in the US to gain more competition experience. Without the marriage he could simply not stay for anything more than a vacation.

For many its the only way to do it.

For Kiwis its a necessity. Very different to the selfish reasons other nationalitys do it.

We did have an English dressage rider try to qualify to ride for NZ on the basis of her NZ husband. She had the money to base herself here to do the qualifiers.
She did not qualify and ended up sueing the NZ Federation citing false pretenses.
Who had the false pretenses in the first place. HER!!!!! Did that lady make any friends here in NZ. Not likely!

Anyway my reason for bringing up nationality changes was only to highlight how hard it was for some countries to even get to the Olympics. And in the light of this how selfish it is of
some riders from big name countries to pull the plug at short notice and perhaps give the IOC reason to kill of Equestrian sport altogether.

If Olympic Equestrian sport gets killed off it will hurt the far flung countries like us who are struggling already a huge amount.

Moll
Jan. 14, 2008, 02:02 AM
As is Zambia (in Southern Africa) Where did you people go to school?

I know that, I didn't think it needed pointing out. It just irked me that Anky's webmaster used "South Africa" when meaning "the southern part of Africa".

But hey, a nice German rider like Anky van Grunsven shouldn't worry :lol:

dutchmike
Jan. 14, 2008, 06:45 AM
I know that, I didn't think it needed pointing out. It just irked me that Anky's webmaster used "South Africa" when meaning "the southern part of Africa".

But hey, a nice German rider like Anky van Grunsven shouldn't worry :lol:


Pssssssst Anky is dutch;). Some people put their foot in their mouth more often then others

snoopy
Jan. 14, 2008, 07:07 AM
Pssssssst Anky is dutch;). Some people put their foot in their mouth more often then others


I think the reference to Anky was a play on it does not matter what we call people from neighbouring countries.;)

Kind of like calling a canadian....american by virtue of the fact that the two countries are neighbouors. Those will a national sense of pride do become quite offended.

dutchmike
Jan. 14, 2008, 07:19 AM
I think the reference to Anky was a play on it does not matter what we call people from neighbouring countries.;)

Kind of like calling a canadian....american by virtue of the fact that the two countries are neighbouors. Those will a national sense of pride do become quite offended.

Do you only have Canadians in Canada or is it like the US where you have Afro-American, Asian-American, Hispanic-American etc etc?. I have never been able to understand why they have to call themselfs that

snoopy
Jan. 14, 2008, 07:42 AM
Do you only have Canadians in Canada or is it like the US where you have Afro-American, Asian-American, Hispanic-American etc etc?. I have never been able to understand why they have to call themselfs that



Ha!!! Yes I see your point. I have never been found of all those terms...in my eyes your are citizen no matter your colour, creed etc. Americans are americans, canadians are candians, dutch are dutch etc. :D


But I have one for you. I hold dual US/UK passports. I was born in the US to a british mother and a canadian father. I am american by birth, spent half my life in the US and the other half in the UK. I am entitled to canadian citizenship as well. I have family in canada and the UK. So who would should I be partial towards??!!

merrygoround
Jan. 14, 2008, 09:00 AM
this bit of news was actually posted earlier today in Eurodressage...
anyways so what if Ikle does not want to go (in a very selfish and untimely manner by the way) and also pulls out her other horse, and then the Swiss decide to cancel the whole team, and Koschel resigns because he's pissed off with all of them?
It's terrible for the Swiss and the sport's image in a way, but trust me there's plenty of riders and NF's that are very happy to take the three extra spots from the Swiss team that will now be added to the individual slots which are based on the FEI rankings.
Now you might probably see a team from Austria or Spain going, so in the end the event will take place anyways, the same way it did in Atlanta, Australia, Greece, and so on. No matter where they Olympics are held (except Europe of course) there will always be some riders that have issues with shipping their horses to foreign countries.
This is not the end of the world, I'd rather have situations such as this over the doping scandals in cycling, the judging scandals in skating, etc....:lol:

Selfish?!! I'm sure I'd be equally selfish in her situation. Would you drop your children off on the verge of a busy interstate? Swim in the local canals? Hong Kong is a beautiful city, with enormous over crowding problems, a difficultly sited airport. She has a horse who doesn't fly well. That could very well mean a horse who gets dangerously restive on a flight.

We all have our priorities. You would go come hell or high water. Your choice. Hers is to stay home.

Kathy Johnson
Jan. 14, 2008, 09:02 AM
Who should you be partial towards? The country with the easiest Olympic team to make.

fish
Jan. 14, 2008, 09:03 AM
Do you only have Canadians in Canada or is it like the US where you have Afro-American, Asian-American, Hispanic-American etc etc?. I have never been able to understand why they have to call themselfs that

Well there are definitely French-Canadians!

I think what people call themselves has to do with cultural identity that often extends beyond nationality (and is sometimes in conflict with it).

Moll
Jan. 14, 2008, 11:22 AM
Pssssssst Anky is dutch;). Some people put their foot in their mouth more often then others

...and some people obviously cannot recognise a joke (or sarcasm) even when-

Ok, better not finish that sentence. But yes, dear French Mike, I know that Anky is Dutch.

dutchmike
Jan. 14, 2008, 12:57 PM
Ha!!! Yes I see your point. I have never been found of all those terms...in my eyes your are citizen no matter your colour, creed etc. Americans are americans, canadians are candians, dutch are dutch etc. :D


But I have one for you. I hold dual US/UK passports. I was born in the US to a british mother and a canadian father. I am american by birth, spent half my life in the US and the other half in the UK. I am entitled to canadian citizenship as well. I have family in canada and the UK. So who would should I be partial towards??!!


Not a problem that Dr Phill couldn't fix;)

dutchmike
Jan. 14, 2008, 12:59 PM
Well there are definitely French-Canadians!


Yes they have the same stupidity in Belgium.

RonaldGroen
Jan. 14, 2008, 07:21 PM
Aaargh. Let's start calling Dutch people French, too!

And let's call Belgium people Dutch people, certainly in the near future :lol:

Equibrit
Jan. 14, 2008, 10:19 PM
Two Canadians no longer interested in the Olympics either!
http://www.dressagedaily.com/

dutchmike
Jan. 14, 2008, 10:56 PM
And let's call Belgium people Dutch people, certainly in the near future :lol:

Call us anything but german:lol:

Equibrit
Jan. 15, 2008, 02:24 PM
Nobody deserves to be called French.

snoopy
Jan. 15, 2008, 02:26 PM
Nobody deserves to be called French.


Ha!!! Spoken like a true Brit...atta girl!

ponyjumper4
Jan. 15, 2008, 02:48 PM
I read all but the last two pages, but I know one of the test riders that went over to Hong Kong this past summer. She never made mention of the heat or air quality effecting anyone, and this is someone who lost their horse to heat issues over here at an event on the east coast this past year. She certainly wouldn't risk her horse if she felt it a major concern having lost one already.

Lexi
Jan. 18, 2008, 12:12 AM
The air quality is almost a negligible factor compared to whether the horse facilities, footing, bedding, water, food, and anything else not personally imported from each participating country will be of sufficient quality.
you seem to be implying that such things are left to the crapshoot of local know-how and suppliers. that is not the case

the same company (Kentucky Equine Research (http://www.ker.com)) that serves as "offical equine nutritionist" to the USEF (and for the Australian team as well), has handled the feed, forage, bedding etc ( as well as providing consulting for teams both before and during the sojourn_) for the last three Olympics, and the 2007 Pan Am Games, and the 2006 and 2002 WEGs

they are specialized in this and if the HKOC is NOT using KER as supplier it would only be because they might be using the already-established providers for the racing industry there likely with addtl consultation from KER

so no, those who don't bring their own are NOT left to whatever is scrounged up by some local yahoos in a non-equestrian oriented country . that is uninformed myth

And the same guy, Hermann Duckek, handled the footing for every Olympics from Montreal to Sydney, as well as the first three WEGs and countless other champs and finals

then he died

so another expert had to be selected, and he was selected from the same pool of equestrian experts that is available to service any other top equestrian event.

same pool of potential people, working with the top TDs available, both appointed by the FEI, not the OCOG. and money is never an object when it actually comes time to spend on facilities at the OG. biggest olympic truism ever . they worry about paying for it later no matter what kind of bitching they did in advance

so blaming "the Olympics" or a less-established equestrian country does nothing to solve that problem. it's our problem with our people

Same with vets, the same pool of top sport-horse vets in the world staff the veterinary hospital at every Olympics. Jack Snyder has been doing it since Seoul

Jealoushe
Jan. 18, 2008, 12:43 PM
Two Canadians no longer interested in the Olympics either!
http://www.dressagedaily.com/

I know a couple that would be happy to take their places :lol:

Coreene
Jan. 18, 2008, 12:48 PM
I read all but the last two pages, but I know one of the test riders that went over to Hong Kong this past summer. She never made mention of the heat or air quality effecting anyone, and this is someone who lost their horse to heat issues over here at an event on the east coast this past year. She certainly wouldn't risk her horse if she felt it a major concern having lost one already.The Swiss horse does not travel well on airplanes. Read one of the first posts on this thread; she didn't go to Vegas last year either because the horse does not travel well on airplanes. The horse did not travel well to Athens either, and she said he was never himself on that trip, after the flight.

canyonoak
Jan. 18, 2008, 07:49 PM
Not to be obnoxious (of course not!)

SIlvia Ikle/Salieri at Aachen, 2004:

Grand Prix average 68.458
66.875
70.000
68.958
66.875
69.583

Silvia Ikle/Salieri Olympics 2004

Grand Prix average 67.042

66.042
66.458
67.083
68.333
67.292

RonaldGroen
Jan. 18, 2008, 08:21 PM
Not to be obnoxious (of course not!)

SIlvia Ikle/Salieri at Aachen, 2004:

Grand Prix average 68.458
66.875
70.000
68.958
66.875
69.583

Silvia Ikle/Salieri Olympics 2004

Grand Prix average 67.042

66.042
66.458
67.083
68.333
67.292


What do you mean canyonoak

canyonoak
Jan. 18, 2008, 09:36 PM
Meaning... that the performances at Aachen and Athens were not all that different in terms of scoring.

Meaning that it does not seem that the trip had that much adverse effect on Salieri in terms of actual performance.

I could go back and look, but it seems to me that it was 2006 when Salieri/Ikle came into their own and the already excellent pi/pa tour was joined by a new kind of harmony and power.

RonaldGroen
Jan. 19, 2008, 01:42 PM
We will never now the true reason don't you think ?

ponyjumper4
Jan. 19, 2008, 09:19 PM
The Swiss horse does not travel well on airplanes. Read one of the first posts on this thread; she didn't go to Vegas last year either because the horse does not travel well on airplanes. The horse did not travel well to Athens either, and she said he was never himself on that trip, after the flight.

My comment was not made in reference to her decision not to take her horses as I could really care less. It was made towards the ones saying we shouldn't take any over either because of the heat, air quality, etc., from people who haven't competed over there themselves at the time of year in which the games will be held.