Horse not eating hay. Human banging head against wall.

[Simkie]

Okay, I am DONE. I am SO frustrated.

I moved my horses to a new barn because Blush was not eating the hay at the old barn. I brought several bales of the new barn's hay to the old barn, and she ate well.

Now, three weeks post move, she is not eating again. She is eating less than two flakes AM/PM. She is the sort of horse that needs four AM/PM. She is dropping weight. I am starting her back on ranitadine, but I do not have high hopes--ranitadine did not change the anorexia situation at the old barn.

I need ideas. Here is what she is getting now per day:

(YES, I realize this is a lot of crap! YES, I am a bit ashamed at the amount of crap. It all came on at different points, for different reasons.)

As much hay as she'll eat (roughly 3 flakes/day)
7 qt TC Senior
1 cup ground flax
1 cup prilled fat
Farrier's Formula
Corta-RX with HA
Ranitatine
Lysine
MSM
Mag-calm
4 oz TC Rice Bran Oil
2 lbs alfalfa pellets (soaked)

And, actually, that may be it.

At the old barn, I tried giving her more soaked alfalfa pellets, and she stopped eating them. She has been on beat pulp in the past...I don't remember why I quit--she may not eat it. I just don't remember.

I am tempted to STOP feeding her supplements and most grain and tell her "too bad--eat your hay!" but she is already looking thin and I really can't stand see her lose more weight :no:

She had bloodwork not long ago--normal. She was also scoped for gastric ulcers and--GET THIS--she had the cleanest stomach CSU had seen in a long time. This after a few episodes that were classic "yep, you've got ulcers" :sigh:

I don't know what to do to get this horse to EAT HER HAY. Who has ideas? I would like to hear ANYTHING that might work.

[sublimequine]

Take all the extra crap out of her diet. She's probably fed up with it. :eek:

[Simkie]

Take all the extra crap out of her diet. She's probably fed up with it. :eek:

Yes, I thought of that.

I am too afraid that she will continue to NOT EAT her hay.

And then I will have a VERY THIN horse that isn't eating. :no:

So, no--I am not willing to stop giving her what she IS eating.

[sublimequine]

Yes, I thought of that.

I am too afraid that she will continue to NOT EAT her hay.

And then I will have a VERY THIN horse that isn't eating. :no:

I really think her appetite may get better if you try and consolidate some of your supplements. I've seen horses pumped full of 'stuff' before; that despite all the 'stuff', were still thin and had no appetite. Take all the supplements away and just get them on a high-quality feed with perhaps ONE or TWO supplements that can help with a range of issues, and the horse perks right up.

So let's look at your grocery list of 'stuff'..

1 cup ground flax - What is the flax for?
1 cup prilled fat - Why are you feeding this AND oil? Take one out, increase the other.
Farrier's Formula - Is she proven to have bad feet? Why is she on this?
Corta-RX with HA - Find a joint supplement with HA and MSM. Take out the MSM listed below.
Ranitatine - If she doesn't have ulcers, why is she on this?
Lysine - Why is she on this?
MSM - See above.
Mag-calm - Does she honestly need a calming agent? Perhaps more turnout could help this.
4 oz TC Rice Bran Oil - See above.
2 lbs alfalfa pellets (soaked) - Perhaps she's not eating hay because she's eating this. Perhaps cut this out, up your quality of hay, and see if that helps.

Also, it may be the quality of your hay. Perhaps she'd prefer a grass/alfalfa mix?

I'm not trying to be overly-critical, just trying to figure out what is the best game plan for your horse's diet. What is her current environment? Turnout? Pasture conditions? Other horses, or alone? etc.

[Simkie]

Blush is in a stall with turnout three days a week. She is turned out in a dirt lot with other horses over the fence (she can touch noses.) No other turnout is available. More turnout is not available. No other living quarters is available.

The only hay available is a grass/alfalfa mix.

Flax is for the omega 3's and additional fat.
One cup prilled fat is all she'll eat before turning up her nose
4 oz of oil is all she'll eat before turning up her nose
Lysine was added because Cherry sings it's praises. I am still on the original container--she has been on it maybe 8 weeks.
Blush has ridiculously bad feet. I am on month 6 (I think?) of the Farriers Formula. I figured I would give it a year or 14 months. Her feet have improved (slightly) while on the sup.
I am almost out of MSM. Was not planning on buying more.
Ranitadine is new as of today--I feel I have to give it a try. Can't afford gastrogard. The horse may have ulcers...I just know she didn't BEFORE.

I have tried removing the alfalfa pellets. She did not consume more hay. If anything, she ate LESS and dropped an impressive amount of weight. A couple pounds soaked is NOT a lot--about 1/3 of a 5 gallon bucket.

This is horse is the most complicated thing I have EVER experienced. She is complicated to care for and complicated to ride. She has EARNED her nickname: The Princess.

[throwurheart]

I am sure you've had her teeth done, but that sounds like a chewing problem to me. Those things can manifest themselves as many ways as there are personalities of horses. It could be overcome for a new flavor, then when the novelty wears off, the pain supercedes the flavor. If you've had her checked, have her re-checked by someone else. I bought a horse this year who had a recent dental (seller is a doll, she definitely told the truth), my dentist (who's a DVM) said no way, teeth in very bad shape. That seems to be one of those professions in which there is a wide variety of skill.

I would also take her off everything but the senior feed and hay, just to see what happens, and increase turnout as much as possible. Tough to do this time of year in CO, but whatever you can do might help. (oops, I see you can't do much of that. Too bad)

Great title by the way.

[Simkie]

Ah, yes. Teeth have certainly been done. I asked around and found the guy that EVERYONE says is The Best. (Seriously--I heard his name from a half dozen people who run in totally different circles in the horse world up here. I don't think I've EVER had that sort of consensus about ANYTHING!) He did her...maybe 2 months ago. Her mouth was in relatively good shape. The only thing he had to take care of was some minor hooks front and back.

Also, horse has been recently (within the last 8 weeks) wormed with a powerpac and then wormed a couple weeks later with moxidectin with praziquantal. Wanted to make sure parasites were NOT an issue.

[sublimequine]

I know you said it's not possible, and I'm sure folks around here are getting sick of hearing it, but I bet you anything if she got more turnout, she'd work up more of an appetite. Also, if she could be out with other horses, run around and play, that might also work up her appetite.

If I were you, this is what I would do; :)

1. Get teeth checked, if they haven't been done in past 6 months. (Good idea throw! :yes: )
2. Change diet. Remove flax, prilled fat, and oil. Put her on palatable weight-building supplement. Remove Lysine (don't seem to really have a reason for this one to be fed?). Remove MSM and other joint supplement, replace with ONE joint supplement with all ingredients needed.
3. 7 days a week turnout, all day turnout. I know this is hard to find, but it would probably be worth it.

Like I said though, that's just what I PERSONALLY would do. Hope that helps somewhat.. :lol:

[wstrngrl]

Try Purina Ultium, it will consolidate the senior feed and all the fat additives, and she'll probably like it better :) Plus you can feed alot less volume of it and keep the weight on MUCH better.

I have a hard keeper, who won't eat much hay, who's also kinda picky, and Ultium works wonders.

http://www.ultium.com/

If she's not really active, you could try Purina's Complete Advantage instead (it's cheaper); beet pulp based (as is Ultium), but not a high fat feed, however it keeps weight on my hard keeper well during the winter when he's not working hard.

[Catersun]

Simkie,

what about:

Stablized rice bran no more than 2 lbs.

Soaked beet pulp. Could be worth trying again.

Boss? if she finds it edible.

I make "soup" out of soaked beet pulp, Alfalfa pellets and boss.

Lots of little meals instead of two larger meals?

What about chopped forage... I've heard lucerne farms puts out at nice chopped hay from those on the board and from others off the board.

Anyway hand grazing on grass would be possible?

How does she feel about carrots or apples? maybe chopped up mixed in?

[Tuff Tilly]

When I've had horses that turned their noses up at hay but finished all their concentrates and supplements I made sure to feed the hay BEFORE concentrates. The horse could have it's hard feed (the good stuff, desert, crustless bread, etc) after it had finished the GOOD stuff (broccoli, brussel sprouts, liver etc). I know you're concerned about her losing weight and not willing to take them away completely, but how is she currently being fed? Does she get it all at once hay and hard feeds just plunked before her to eat as she will? Or are they separate meals? If they're not separate see if you can get them to be. I've found that when horses are getting a lot of concentrate hay is more appealing if it's offered as a separate meal.

[Calena]

I don't know that I can help, but I also own a picky eater princess. She wasn't always like this, but it's getting rough as she ages. I can share some of what she's taught me about feeding her.

A) She likes to decide for herself. To accommodate this, I finally stopped mixing her food. I set everything in neat little piles and let her decide what/when to eat. She was quite pleased with me for finally figuring this out.

B) She doesn't like any other horse near her food. I've had to change her stall so that her feed bucket is against a wall without another stall next to it. That helped.

C) She likes to be able to see outside while eating hay. We now keep her hay in front of the door, which is a bar type to the floor. She can still see out while eating.

D) Anything new is placed under the other food. That way, if she doesn't like it, it won't throw her off the rest. She'll go anorexic on me for days after I put something in that bucket she doesn't like. Putting it on the bottom at least stopped that.

E) If she leaves it on the bottom for two days, stop feeding it. If I keep trying, she'll eat less and less till I take it out.

F) Two things I read that help build appetite in horses and both worked. The lysine was one. The other was grazing. Being a horse, she loves to graze. I've discovered that they don't really need a bunch a grass, just the motion of 'being a horse', wandering around looking for things to nibble on. Every night before she goes back in her stall, we go 'grazing, browsing and investigating'. Yes, it takes time. But without exception, after doing this for even 10 minutes, she'll go back in her stall and clean up the food.

When everything else checks out, what we're left with is a horse. I discovered that if I let her graze too long (several hours), she stops eating hay completely. She wants back on the grass. Since I'm not in a position to keep her in a big pasture 24/7, I had to find a happy medium that works. The max she gets to graze now is 1-1/2 hours (time/weather permitting). Even when there's a foot of snow on the ground, she's happy if she can at least burrow through it with her nose.

Yes, big PIA. But she's my responsibility, I put her in the stall. It's up to me to make it work for her.

I hope you find what your mare needs.

[Thomas_1]

Is the horse underweight now?

If not, I'd say you've had good advice from Sublimequine.

Make her diet simpler and get some good quality meadow hay for her.

[fourmares]

How much does 7 qts of the TC Senior weigh? And how much do your flakes weigh? I'm guessing that she's getting about 9 - 10 lbs of feed between the senior and the alfalfa pellets...

[tpup]

Sorry you're having this trouble. I have a hard keeper too and it's not an easy solution sometimes.

How many times a day does she eat the feed and supps? My vet recommended we do 3 feedings vs. 2 per day...that a consistent supply of calories split between 3 feedings would help put weight on. If she will only tolerate 4 oz. of the oil, for example...is that in one feeding? Because if it is, can you give her a mid-day feeding with the same amounts and see what she does?

Also, how much do the quarts of feed weigh? I'd be curious what she is getting in actual pounds. My guy is now on 8 pounds of TC Complete per day, 8 c. soaked beet pulp per day and 2 cups corn oil per day. That's split between two meals - a.m. and p.m. but I add a 3rd meal of at least a pound of TC Complete plus 1 cup rice bran pellets soaked. We just started this regimen so we'll see if it helps. He also gets 2 scoops Farnham weight builder per day. I ask about the pounds only because I was very surprised when I used my kitchen scale, how much one pound of feed is and looks like. It was more than I thought.

Good luck and hope it improves.

[Appassionato]

A) She likes to decide for herself. To accommodate this, I finally stopped mixing her food. I set everything in neat little piles and let her decide what/when to eat. She was quite pleased with me for finally figuring this out.

C) She likes to be able to see outside while eating hay. We now keep her hay in front of the door, which is a bar type to the floor. She can still see out while eating.

I'll echo everything that Calena has said but especially these two pieces of advice! I have had to rebuild my horse's ration so many times...I'm not sure if my horse really has a set ration. He eats what he's eating at the time. And my guy doesn't have the excuse of not enough turnout, he's out 24/7 with a run-in. He's just a monster-sized PITA when it comes to what he wants to eat.

For the most part I also agree with sublimeequine too. When Bo decides he's on a food strike, he gets his complete pellet and only a few other things as Calena mentioned to the side (literally) and from there I'll figure out what in the world he wants to eat. It's very easy to forget things like this, that horses sometimes actualy know what's best for them despite what we've been told, read, been advised...;)

I also understand needing to give the horse something that he/she really needs regardless of their opinion such as meds or other needs such as fats. In that particular case, I let Bo decide if he wants alfalfa pellets because they are to the side, but he's better off getting a minimum of 1/8 cup flax in with his complete pellets than eating nothing at all because he's pissed today. I let Bo decide if he wants BOSS. I let him decide if he wants Calf Manna. But the flax, no, I'll sneak that one in but in much smaller amounts than I'd like until I get the bugger eating again. Things like Farrier's Formula, Mag-Calm, and other "frills" kind of supplements hit the counter for a while when I run into problems. I realize that your horse has problems with her feets (and I sympathize!) as well as somewhat difficult under saddle if I understood properly...but a lot of that will go away when she's not pissed off 24/7. And getting some Farrier's Formula onto her tongue will not make up for other nutrition loss. I'm sure you already knew that, I'm just reiterating because I have to remind myself of these kinds of things when Bo's anorexic side kicks in...and again, I know about horses with problems other than just being a pain about eating. :winkgrin: :winkgrin:

I realize Simkie your problem isn't her hard grain but instead eating hay...just thinking out loud about what might also be ticking your mare off. I'll number off some thoughts:

1) Have you tried any hay cubes? Simplify and/or separate as suggested above, and ADD hay cubes?

2) Can you hand graze her before or after riding? Grass really does help some horses.

3) I know, I know...a supplement suggestion but I've seen it work: probiotics.

[Dianna]

If you cannot use a different feed, then I would up her work ... even if only in hand ... even if I had to pay somebody to do it for me.

Also, I might try some bute for a couple of days. My friend's horse did this her entire life. Though she wasn't lame, when she had "bute" (or use buteless or something like that) and see if it helps.

[Invite]

I feel your pain ;) My TB mare was very skinny and a horrible eater. I consolidated her supplements. I went with Reitsport (I didn't need the HA). Reitsport has probiotics, MSM, glucosamine, chondroitin, Biotin and some other stuff all in a flax base. My picky, no longer skinny mare will actually eat it!!! When I got Emily down to the one supplement, she ate better. Em will not eat cubes, but she loves Blue Seal Hay Stretcher. I had her on TC senior, but switched her to Ultium and I am very happy with the results. Now that she is getting a more calorie dense grain she gets less grain and isn't filling up on various supplements and eats more hay.

[Cherry]

Oh boy--lots of suggestions....

Yes, how much does 7 quarts of Triple Crown Senior weigh??? That would be my guess as to why she doesn't want much hay. A horse's stomach is only so large and when the horse gets full they stop eating (at least my horse does) after about an hour..... The cut-off is five pounds of concentrates at a meal. I say, cut the amount of feed in half, or keep that amount of feed but feed her three times a day, rather than twice! You would not believe what a third feeding can do for a horse! ;)

About the Lysine..... That is an amino acid that a horse needs to utilize its feedstuffs--helps a horse gain weight, hold weight and stimulates its appetite!!!! (Along with threonine and methionine....) A horse cannot manufacture it itself--it has to be supplemented. Why would you take that out of the mix??? :uhoh:

Farrier's Formula has some other amino acids too if I recall correctly, I might keep that if you can afford it.

But I also agree with taking some of the stuff out of the diet. Triple Crown Senior is 10% fat--maybe the horse is just getting too much fat, as well as too much feed. Triple Crown recommends feeding at least six pounds the Senior--more than this may be overkill. Do weigh your feed in pounds!!!!

So, cut back feed, alfalfa pellets and flax seed (or try feeding three times a day instead), cut out at least some of the fat (prilled fat and oil). Try feeding hay first, then the concentrates as someone has suggested. I think she's just not hungry by the time she gets to the hay, but that is the most important thing in a horse's diet--it's what keeps its innards moving!!!! Better to skimp on anything but hay!!!! I'd try to keep the Mag-Calm--I think it does more good than harm....

Sometimes too much of a good thing is not a good thing! :no:

Make sure her teeth are in good working order. If you haven't already done so I would give her a dose of Equimax (for tapeworm) and then, April 1st start a Power Pac to get those migrating encysted strongyles....

Good luck!

[War Admiral]

Another member of the Picky-Eatin' Head-Bangin' Clique checking in!! :rolleyes: I feel your pain...

My guy thinks anything even remotely RESEMBLING alfalfa hay or alfalfa mixed with any other kind of hay is... a stall decoration. The weird thing about this is, he will eat soaked alfalfa cubes quite happily. Go figure. :confused:

Is there any possibility of trying your horse on a different kind of hay, even just maybe buying one bale or buying a couple of flakes from a barn buddy as an experiment?

If you're going to try simplifying/cutting back supps, the ones I would lose are:


1. The Corta-Flex w/ HA. HA in any form makes my horse's tummy hurt, so particularly if your horse is acting ulcery, I'd drop this one. I've tried every oral HA product there is, with the same result.

2. Lysine. I too took Cherry's advice and put HRH on it, and sorry Cherry, but I'm this close to dropping it myself - he's been losing weight since I put him on it. :( I planned to give it 2 full months but I'm not sure HRH and I can stay the course!

3. MSM. Notable for "iffy tummy" syndrome; see Oral HA.

4. Mag-Calm. Unless there is a demonstrable need for a mag supp in this horse's diet based on a diet eval and forage test, I'd drop this.

5. As far as all the fat supps go, I'd lose everything but the flax and *maybe* the rice bran oil - but before I kept that I would take her off it for a day or two, easing her back on it if necessary. HRH will only tolerate "so" much oil

Personally I would keep the Farrier's Formula. It really is great for feet.

I'm also thinking 3 meals a day might be an option, if possible.

Also - is handwalking an option? I realize since you're in CO in the dead of winter, hand *grazing* probably isn't!

Good luck.

[Tamara in TN]

Okay, I am DONE. I am SO frustrated.

I moved my horses to a new barn because Blush was not eating the hay at the old barn. I brought several bales of the new barn's hay to the old barn, and she ate well.

As much hay as she'll eat (roughly 3 flakes/day)
7 qt TC Senior
2 lbs alfalfa pellets (soaked)

And, actually, that may be it.


I don't know what to do to get this horse to EAT HER HAY. Who has ideas? I would like to hear ANYTHING that might work.

hey girl !

I took out all the supplements that I know nothing about and can't expound on :lol: from the above list and left the feeds and hay...

I think I'd look at teh weight of what is left...sounds goofy I know but if a gallon of water weighs <x> and you add X gallons to the 2 pounds pellets...what would that weigh ?? 10 pounds ? or more then the feed that I have never fed being Purina born and raised....is it an expanding feed (once wet?) what would it weigh in the gut ?? 10 pounds ?? then the hay on top of that ...

could it be that you are just exceeding the capacity of her belly ? for what ever reason.. ? does she clean all the rest or just pick ??

best
Tamara in TN

[Groom&Taxi]

Ok, you asked for anything that might work so I am going to mention Succeed digestive conditioner. We started using it on my daughter's TB when he had a fairly sudden weight drop last winter. Vet recommended trying it - he admits he doesn't know why it works, but he sees a lot of people getting results using it so he recommends it as something to try. It's available in pellets or paste, we do pellets.

G&T

[Bank of Dad]

I have one of these too.

She gets 2 cups rice bran pellets and 3 lbs TC Senior am and pm

She was eating hay fine until I got additional new hay. Both are timothy, but older hay from my regular hay guy, he "crimps" the stalks so they are smaller and softer.
The new hay is just cut and baled. So for two weeks she just wasted and walked on new hay. The other two gobble it up. So I dug out older hay from the bottom of the hugh stack ( I hate this horse), and she's eating hay happily again.

[Chief2]

Another vote for stripping down the diet and seeing where you go from there. The reason I went over to TC Senior in the past was so I could have enough beet pulp and fat in the grain to keep the weight on both seniors and growing stallions, with a good base of nutrition, without making them hot. And it worked great. Too much other stuff going into the system. Time to strip it down and rethink the system.

If all works well with the grain, and she is still giving you a battle with the hay, consider pouring Cocosoya over it. It is butterscotch-flavored soy and coconut oil that most horses inhale. May be purchased at www.uckele.com

[freshman]

How long has she been on each of these supplements? How long has she been not eatingh? You mention that she's been on lysine for 8 weeks. Wondering if one of the supplements has her off.

[Lambie Boat]

is it possible the move is bothering her? I have a mare who sulks for quite some time when anything changes in her world. She's also a picky eater, so I have her diet stripped down to a local grass hay that she insisted on pre-approving before I bought a bunch of it, and an Equine Senior type feed which includes probiotics. I tried to beef her up with beet pulp but she snubbed it. then rice bran. same thing. another princess! (chestnut)

[Simkie]

Wow, thanks for all the responses! Let's see if I can address some of your questions.

Blush is worked daily, so upping her work load is not really doable. She is worked for about a half hour, which I feel is just about right for her fitness level. She is not bouncing off the walls with all these concentrates. Her work level has been consistent from when she WAS eating to now. Her work level IS going to change shortly, though--I am having surgery on the 21st. I'd planned on paying a friend to ride her, but I am REALLY tapped financially...wound up paying about 6 weeks of additional board in Jan (about 900 bucks!) due to deposits etc :(

She has not been eating for, oh, probably three or four months now. Maybe more. She ate well at the old barn until they got the new hay in for the winter. She didn't like the new hay and stopped eating it. She's always been a good eater before--I have NEVER had this problem. I figured I would be in the clear when she ate the new barn hay at the old barn--I did try out several bales before moving.

I've thought about chopped forage or hay cubes...I just haven't tried them out yet. Perhaps it's time to give that a go. I'm not sure what is available to me here...certainly no Blue Seal, so hay stretcher is out. I did look for that product when she started this thing some time ago.

She is fed hay before grain. I am not sure how far in advance, but it's long enough for her to spread her hay all over her stall.

I don't know how much the grain weighs. If I had to guess (based on the old barn scoops, which I DID weigh) I would say one scoop, which is 3 qts, comes in at 2.25 to 3 lbs. So she is getting about 6 lbs of grain per day plus maybe a lbs of pellets. I think I over-estimated the weight of the pellets in my first post. The thermos that I soak her pellets in is a one gallon thermos and the soaked pellets just fill it, if that helps describe the amount at all. She is only getting a couple cups of pellets per day.

The pasture at this barn is quite a hike away from where Blush is, and most of the ground is covered in an inch of ice. I'll take a look to see if it's feasible at all to take her out to pick at the dead grass. But I'm out there after dark everyday and don't want her slipping...or me landing flat on my ass! So that may not be doable at all during the week. It may be doable on the weekend.

She is fed three times a day. In the AM and PM she gets hay, a bit less than a full scoop and a baggies of supplements. Before I leave in the evening (usually around 8-9 pm) I give her the soaked pellets, oil and about a half scoop of grain.

WA, I didn't know that about HA! I'll go ahead and drop it--she gets adequan and legend, anyway. I continued to feed the joint stuff because it's cheap and I figured it couldn't hurt.

I can give the Ultium a try. I also remember seeing a feed that was 14 % fat…Complete? Competitor? Something that started with a C? I think it was Purina, but don’t really remember. Should have paid more attention! Does anyone have any idea what this might be?

The move very well may be bothering her. But she was not eating before the move and is now not eating after the move, so it’s low on my list…

[Calena]

She is fed hay before grain. I am not sure how far in advance, but it's long enough for her to spread her hay all over her stall.


The pasture at this barn is quite a hike away from where Blush is, and most of the ground is covered in an inch of ice.



If you've got some time and there's no one to complain, you can make a fake pasture. Spread hay all over the isle or in the arena ;). Let her 'graze, browse, investigate and discover'.

[Xanthoria]

We have one like this. After dental work, Panacur Power Pack, omeprazole and all sorts of feeds didn't work e took him camping with his buddy. It was 15-20 miles per day for 3 days. Graze on the trail, hay and feed am and pm in the pipe corrals at the camp, or die.

He chose life ;)

[Sithly]

We have one like this. After dental work, Panacur Power Pack, omeprazole and all sorts of feeds didn't work e took him camping with his buddy. It was 15-20 miles per day for 3 days. Graze on the trail, hay and feed am and pm in the pipe corrals at the camp, or die.

He chose life ;)

:lol: Love it! :lol:

[AKB]

We have two picky eaters and the rest of our guys are pigs. The picky ones seem to want a buffet set out for them. A bucket of Purina Complete Advantage (beet pulp based compete feed), a bucket of alfalfa cubes, some hay, some Lucerne Farms Totally Timothy or Hi Fi dengie (depending on their desires for that day), a pound of oats, and a pound of Purina Omolene 100, makes a lovely buffet than can be served three times daily. They seem to get bored with the buffet unless occasional substitutions are made (Purina Ultium, pellets or Equine Senior can be rotated in and out of the buffet).

The boys do stay in good weight if they are served the buffet, but otherwise, they rapidly become thin. The pigs each get a lb of balancer pellets, and spend their days trying to be misidentified and served the buffet. Right now, the picky eaters are vacationing at our friends' farm in Middleburg. My feeding schedule is so easy with them gone. I feel your pain. It is really hard to deal with these difficult eaters.

[MsM]

I would still wonder about her teeth. Have you watched her eating hay when she does choose to do so?
It may not be hooks or points that would show in a floating but a cracked molar or an abcess. A very thorough veterinary look in that mouth might be in order.

[Beethoven]

Here is some infor on Ultium. www.ultium.com (http://www.ultium.com) I feed it to my hard keeper TB and he only need 3.5 lbs/day and is fat.:yes:

[EqTrainer]

IME horses who get a lot of supplements will indeed stop eating, in general.

But a bigger factor is SUGAR. If your horse eats a sugar-y diet, she may refuse to eat anything that does not "measure up" sugar-wise.

Every horse who comes here comes off sugar as completely as I can manage it, until they start eating happily again. The longest hold-out was two weeks. By the time they leave, they eat everything happily.

So for now I would cut out all supplements and switch her to one of TC's products that is low in sugar/starch. The 30% supplement would be nice. Feed her the recommended amount and nothing else. When she eats that freely, add back the lysine. Then the flax. Then the mineral supplement that TC recommends. Stop there unless she needs a joint supplement.

Works for me, everytime.

[SLW]

Just tossing more things out from a "sitting around the kitchen table" point of view.....what about a shot(s) of Vit B-12, isn't that an appetite stimulant? Maybe a prebiotic would help- if I understand it correctly pre-biotics are the "fuel" for the good gut (pro-biotics) a horse produces.

Remember Peepers who you tried out for me last year?? He came back from a trainer last June a little too lean and I needed weight on him pronto because someone was interested in buying him. (His teeth had been floated prior to going to the trainer.) Anyway, I used Ultium w/ him for three weeks- served him 50 pounds each week, and wow, he looked "good" at the end of two weeks but at the end of 4 weeks he looked regal. This was in addition to the large amount of beet pulp all my horses get 365 days a year. Have you tried beet pulp w/ molasses in it??? Tell Princess Blush that all quality mares dine on that product!! ;)

And I know Blush was given an all clear for ulcers but if for nothing else, and throwing a "hail Mary" at her, I would dose her w/ 30cc of Maalox before a meal. Maybe her stomach churns a little but not enough to cause ulcers.

Good luck w/ her! I've always admired her ever since she showed up in CO.

[Simkie]

So for now I would cut out all supplements and switch her to one of TC's products that is low in sugar/starch. The 30% supplement would be nice. Feed her the recommended amount and nothing else. When she eats that freely, add back the lysine. Then the flax. Then the mineral supplement that TC recommends. Stop there unless she needs a joint supplement.

TC Senior DOES have a low NSC, sugars and starch. It's not like I'm loading her up on corn and barley. http://www.equussource.com/articles/nutrition/0405_mp_carbtables.pdf

It is right there with the low starch and lite and is only SLIGHTLY higher than the 30% supplement.

What I don't understand with your plan is how my horse would get the calories she needs :confused: She is ALREADY light. If she loses anymore weight, she will be thin. I am desperately trying to avoid that, so I don't get how feeding her LESS calories will help the situation.

I would just LOVE to be able to do the buffet with her, but that is really not doable at this barn.

SLW, I'll give my vet a call and discuss B-12. And maybe pick up some Ration Plus (isn't that a prebiotic?) to add in next week. She is on ranitadine, which is my "Hail Mary" for her stomach. I'm glad to hear the Ultium worked so well for Mr Peepers!

I ran out of oil, so I'll drop that. I'll cut the joint stuff, the mag calm, and the MSM out of her next week of baggies. Maybe pick up a bag of beep and see what she thinks, along with research what sort of hay pellets/cubes I have available to me... I have about 50 lbs of grain left, so will buy new stuff next week. The 14% fat stuff I was thinking of is Athlete--does anyone have experience with that?

I am also going to talk to the BM about moving her to the end of the row of stalls so that she only has one neighbor...I think she spends lots of time "guarding" her food where she is now. The stalls have bars between them instead of solid walls. I may even tarp off the bars so she has her privacy (she will still be able to see horses across the aisle) and see if that helps. The old barn has solid walls.

[Kit]

I agree with everyone. Keep it simple, feed often and little 3 - 4 times a day and as much hay as she wants. I had one like that - I boiled barley for him. He loffed that! I'd add a probiotic as well as it promotes good gut flora. I also got someone in to give me advice. I also put my boy on an iron tonic called Ironyclens. Other than that, plain and simple feed with no added molasses or sugars. It's a pity you can't give her turn out with friends but maybe once the ice thaws? Good luck - it's a difficult problem. The horse I have now is a hoover! I just read your last comment and yes of course she could be bothered by the lack of 'privacy' with her food. They really are funny creatures. Good ideas!

[Invite]

As far as the Ultium, my hard keeper gets 3 lbs a day. She is currently out of work -no indoor and bad, icy footing- so I am sure she will need more Ultium as her work load increases. When I fed her a less calorie dense grain, she needed more of it and seemed to get too full to eat her hay.

If Nutrena is available in your area, I believe they make a product similar to Hay Stretcher.

[cdalt]

I'm inclined to agree with the folks who have suggested that there just isn't enough room (or appetite) left after all the concentrates and supplements she is getting for her to eat a lot of hay. Be sure to check the weight of your feed: you mention that the 3 quart scoop holds about 2.25 to 3 lbs. A better rule of thumb (if you don't have a scale to weigh) is that a quart equals about 1 lb of oats, or 1 1/4 lb of sweet feed , or 1 1/2 lb pellets. So 7 quarts a day of TC Senior (which I believe is pelleted) would weigh 10 to 11 lbs, not the 6 you estimated. Best idea is to get a small (kitchen type) scale and weigh your feed to be sure of what she is getting.

[FatPalomino]

Ah, yes. Teeth have certainly been done. I asked around and found the guy that EVERYONE says is The Best. (Seriously--I heard his name from a half dozen people who run in totally different circles in the horse world up here. I don't think I've EVER had that sort of consensus about ANYTHING!) He did her...maybe 2 months ago. Her mouth was in relatively good shape. The only thing he had to take care of was some minor hooks front and back.

Also, horse has been recently (within the last 8 weeks) wormed with a powerpac and then wormed a couple weeks later with moxidectin with praziquantal. Wanted to make sure parasites were NOT an issue.


Dr P, right? If it was him, you have nothing to worry about in your mare's teeth!

I'd love to meet the Princess one of these days. Feel free to give a call on my Cell.

I have no insight for you- except trying alfalfa? Our old horse won't eat Grass hay if he's been on Alfalfa. He eventually gives in and eats the grass when he has too. But give then choice....

PS I would stick on the TC Senior. I bet she'd drop lots more weight switching grains. Have you tried beet pulp? I sometimes sock it for the picky horse (above) with alf. pellets to give it some taste.

[aiken4horses]

I had a young TB mare who would get overwhelmed by too much food and not eat. I thought I was being a "good" owner by filling her bucket and hay net to the brim to get weight on her. I cut her right back and only gave her what she would finish in a meal. Next meal she got a bit more and so on until she was back up to a sustainable amount of food for the work she was doing.
Some horses need to be hungry to eat the next meal.

I've had horses that didn't like the taste of a particular supplement and would go on starvation diets until I figured it out and removed the "poisonous" addititve.

"Less is More".

[Nibs]

It sounds like your horse needs a probiotic. All the de worming you've done can kill the bacteria that live in a horse's hindgut, thus making it very difficult for her to digest her food. Horses use bacteria to digest their food, then they absorb what the bacteria dont use ( bacteria poop, if you will).

Get her some pro biotics and follow it up with yeast on a daily basis. Your feed store will give you a tube of the probiotics, which will establish a culture, and the yeast will help to feed it to keep it alive.

[GallopGal]

Move your horse to Shelia and Brandy Shalaga's barn. I think the name of the barn is Dry Creek but they dont have a sign or anything. They have all day everyday turn out. Grass in the pastures year round and feed hay and grain 2 times a day. I dont have the number any more but I boared there a year ago and it was great. The horses are fat. From CSU take sheilds north past Travis rd. At Travis rd the road will turn left and you will see a large pond. About a mile past that (actully less than a mile prob) you will see a white fence on the right side of the road with a long drive way. Stop by and talk to them. Great people.

Tell her Desi sent you.

[Ulsterwinnie]

I wouldnt discount the stall position. My guy stopped eating hay last winter. I had been trying to put weight on him after a surgery, and at the same time moved stalls. I think it was a combination of 3 things, the stall position, the amount of concentrates he was getting and I was giving him my own xtra hay to supplement the barns. I cut out the new hay which he obviuosly liked better so wasnt so inclined to eat the barn hay, I reduced his concentrates incase they were making him too full (yes, I was nervous doing both these things but I had to do something as more / different food wasnt helping) and I moved him stalls from the noisy end of the barn, to the middle with a horse on either side. He aways seemed anxious in the new stall to me but some people thought I was crazy to think that. Within a week he was back eating normally and much more relaxed in the stall (choosing to stay inside and eat hay whereas before he was always looking out).
Change the thing your gut is telling you to change

[BarbB]

I am in the cut out the supps camp. I am not anti supps and use them myself, but I would cut out everything but hay, feed and beet pulp.
She may be sick of the taste of one of the supps, you can add them back in later one at a time and see what happens.
If you want an easy to digest, high fat, high calorie feed try Nutrena XTN, it looks like sweet feed, but the shine is oil not sugar and it has a lot of beet pulp in it. I kept a high energy 1500# horse in good weight on less than 4 cups a day in the winter. It also has pre and pro biotics in it.
I would also do the stall switch if you can, guarding her food may be keeping her too busy to eat.
I just skimmed thru this thread so I don't know if you have tried alfalfa.
I couldn't use it for my last horse, made him higher than a kite, but if the horse isn't reactive to it, it really is a good feed and most horses prefer it to grass.
I know you said you used to feed beet pulp and stopped, I would try it again. I used to have a horse that LOVED beet pulp with warm water in the winter. He would wean himself off of it in the late spring/early summer, just refuse to touch it. Come winter he loved it again.

Good luck. I have been lucky and had horses that were good eaters, everyonce in a while I have had a dog that stopped eating....it makes you nuts, I know.

[Simkie]

Blush seems more comfortable in her new stall. She only has one neighbor, who is VERY easy going, and is at the end of the barn, where it is quieter.

When I arrived at 6 or so, she had eaten most of her hay--but I am not sure how much she was given. I also brought out a flake of grass from a bale I bought at the local feed store. She ate some of it, but not a lot. She was interested when I first put it down.

I am really wondering about her stomach. I may pick up some omeprazole just to see if it changes things. I have also upped her ranitadine to 3 x a day, which is the dose CSU recommends. (My vet says twice a day is fine, but, well, Blush is special :rolleyes:)

What is a bit frustrating is the new stall has a bucket instead of an auto waterer. I am not sure why this is. The bucket had obviously not been cleaned in some time, and there is only one. I will add another. I am concerned because I am having surgery on the 21st, will be in the hospital and then on pain meds. Perhaps I can ask some of the other boarders to make sure Blush has clean water. :sigh:

GallopGal, I'll check out that barn. I am a bit stuck right now due to finances. The new barn required a deposit which is used as last months board when you are ready to leave. Because of this, I *really* can't go anywhere until the end of Feb--I just can not afford to move now and lose that cash.

[webmistress32]

I am sorry to bring up an old thread. what was the resolution to this problem?

I have an anorexic mare under the care of a vet. he cannot find a darn thing wrong with her other than "she's thin, yep, dropped 100+ lbs in two weeks for no reason"

I am at my wits end trying to get her to eat.

[Simkie]

I am sorry to bring up an old thread. what was the resolution to this problem?

I have an anorexic mare under the care of a vet. he cannot find a darn thing wrong with her other than "she's thin, yep, dropped 100+ lbs in two weeks for no reason"

I am at my wits end trying to get her to eat.

Blush goes on and off of her hay still. We try to pull the richest of the mixed bales for her. If I could afford to buy all of her hay, there are definitely times when I would just feed her alfalfa.

Lets see, what else worked for Blush...

When she stops eating, we try to mix it up a bit. She seems to get bored and will start eating again if we feed her something different. Can you go around to your various feed stores and pick up a bale at each one? Perhaps your horse would like a change. Maybe soaking her hay would make it more interesting for her. Hell, soak it in water with some sugar free pancake syrup to make it a bit more enticing. Is she interested at all in hay cubes or hay pellets? We have a horse in the barn that must eat soaked cubes instead of hay and Blush GOES WILD for his buckets. That stuff is horsie crack.

Other things...have you run bloodwork on your horse? Have you dewormed her throughly? I would be sorely tempted to do a power pack, worm for tapes, double dose with ivermectin. Have you checked her heart? I've read that some heart beat irregularities can cause a horse to go off feed.

[webmistress32]

the timing of the dropped weight seems to be a double dose of Moxidectin. this mare gets ulcers so we think either the Quest Gel caused a huge ulcer,

or the chemicals overloaded her system and her liver is overtaxed trying to deal with the toxins,

or because the Moxidectin kills the bugs at a different stage, the die-off has overloaded her system either hind gut or liver or both.

these are our three theories.

she has had blood work and there was a slightly elevated white count so she is on SMZs for 15 days (we are on day #8). the white count could indicate inflammation from an Ulcer so she is on Gastrogard and we are on day #30 of this. there was also some blood in the fecal. if the white count is an infection the SMZs will catch that, too.

I have purchased Milk Thistle extract for the Liver function and she is on vitamin supplements (Micro-Tec Equine) and probiotics (ABC+)

due to the possible Liver involvement we went to a low protein hay. she likes the Alfalfa hay fine but was not cleaning up. I purchased special organic grass hay that is super soft and smells great, very leafy. she ate it the first few days like she was starving and now just turns up her nose.

she is on 24X7 turnout with her buddies but gets locked in the stall to eat. I put hay out for the buddies near her so she can see and hear them eating.

I am not 100% sure how much grass she eats in pasture because whenever I come to the barn she is hanging out there in the run-in. that might be a coincidence though since I come early morning and at dusk when the bugs are out.

my worry is she does not clean up the pellets she is getting and turns up her nose at this lovely hay. her body score is just over two. I'd like to get her to a three soon.

[Simkie]

You double dosed moxidectin? Who on earth advised you to do that? It's so much more toxic than any other wormer out there :eek: I have NEVER heard of double dosing Quest and have read quite a bit on the toxicity of moxidectin. Was she thin when you wormed her?

First, I would call up Fort Dodge and ask how to treat a moxidectin overdose.

Second, I would take her off ALL supplements. Give her her grain, her hay, her omeprazole and her SMZs. Nothing else.

Third, I would feed her alfalfa, if she'll eat it. The protein in alfalfa is passed through the kidneys, not the liver. If your vet advised you to not feed alfalfa because of concerns over the liver, it's time for a new vet, pronto. Did you run a liver panel when you pulled blood?

Good luck.

[webmistress32]

You double dosed moxidectin? Who on earth advised you to do that? It's so much more toxic than any other wormer out there I have NEVER heard of double dosing Quest and have read quit a bit on the toxicity of moxidectin. Was she thin when you wormed her?

This was an error on the part of the barn where she was boarded at the time, with my 13yo daughter in Northern Michigan (I live in chicago) I'll never worm with that stuff again!! It is MUCH too easy to overdose and so much more toxic than anything else on the market.

She was a five on the body score scale when she was wormed. As a matter of fact the last time I visited in early April I was sure I would have to put her on a diet when she got home - see what I got for thinking that!

She is only 16 years old and a Pony Club mount. She trail rides, does eventing you name it. She is usually pretty nasty on the ground lately she is sweet and docile. That's how I know she is still not well...

[Simkie]

I'm glad it wasn't intentional and that she was in good weight at the time. Eeek.

Has she been wormed for tapes recently? If she hasn't, I would have a conversation with your vet about whether or not it's a good idea to use one of the praziquantel wormers or a double dose of Strongid at this time.

Otherwise, feed her what she'll eat, and as much of it as she wants, within reason!

[webmistress32]

the vet and I have gone back and forth on the tapeworm worming.

he thinks it might help but then I keep coming back to: if her system is stressed won't this stress it more?

I am super worried about putting any more chemicals into her at this point.

[Simkie]

Do her labs actually show that's any organs are compromised? How is her liver function test etc?

If she DOES have tapes, you're just going to work doubly hard to get weight on her and I can't imagine it feels good to have a belly full of worms.

Praziquantel and pyrantel pamoate are very SAFE wormers. If she has not been wormed for tapes in, oh, perhaps the last 6 months, I think I would probably go ahead and use whichever your vet says is the "gentlest."

But I would speak with Fort Dodge first about moxidectin overdose.

[webmistress32]

re: the liver. the blood was analyzed and again the liver indicators were only *slightly* above normal. hence the liver protocol.

the vet did not suggest the low protein diet, I called an equine nutritionist and he said it is best to not stress the organs with protein if there might be an issue there.

the vet will be back on Thurs I am still trying to decide if I should keep waiting for something to change, or take her to the university.

[Fiat Lux]

Just wanted to chime in with my experience. My mare is on triple crown senior, and it seems to be very filling. She gets four cups am and six cups pm. Once, when she colicked, I kept her off grain and fed more hay until I was sure the colic episode had passed. She ate easily 2 or even 3 more flakes of hay per day in the absence of her grain. Is it possible your girl is too full of TC Senior? Just a thought... Also, I would be sure your girl's grain is fed in many small meals throughout the day.
I wish you the best!

[5]

Wasn't there an article or post as a bottle or two of beer perking up a horses appetite? Something about a bit of alcohol makes them want to nibble until they clean their plate.

[Tnavas]

Vitamin B injections until she picks up her desire to eat - then replace with a Vitamin B supplement.

Teeth check

Bomb drench - worm weekly for three weeks with a broad spectrum wormer.

Weigh your feed, she seems to be getting a vast amount of oil based feeds.

Extruded Barley, Sugarbeet, Meadow chaff, ground flax seed - (max 1 cupful a day) a feed balancer and a Vitamin B supplement. To that you can slowly bring in up to 1 cup of oil a day.

Anoerexic horses are really hard to feed. Best of Luck!

[Iride]

Have you tried Calf Manna????

[Showbizz]

I don't have a lot of advice. I get an "anorixic" horse in probably once or twice a year for training. I've learned their behaviors are all very similar in their eating. I've finally quit taking it personally ;)

I did some research. It seemed logical to learn all that I could from QH halter people, as they seem to be able to get even the most growthy babies fat. I agree with a previous poster in that most seem to use Vit B injections. I have also learned that they give a horse 15 minutes to finish a grain ration. If they cannot finish it in that time it's too much and a separate feeding is added. Most of my anorexics don't just skimp on hay, but when I increase the pellets and/or grain to make up for it, will leave that too, so that was a biggie for me. I've not tried the injections yet but am very tempted, and it seems an inexpensive way to try to stimulate the appetite.

Good luck. If anyone goes the injection route, please KUP!

[thumbsontop]

Glad to hear your mare is doing a bit better Simkie. I honestly think you're on the right track with the hay. I have a mare that's a pretty hard keeper. She was on quite a bit of Purina Strategy and oil, and then Ultium and oil, and wasn't eating enough hay. Tried the "hay first" without much luck. I made the switch to TC Low Starch, lowered the ration to about 7-8lbs per day (4 quarts?) with 8oz corn oil per day AND the kicker was adding Triple Crown chopped forage in the evening. I would fill a water bucket with this (it was about 5lbs) and she just LOVES it! I also would squirt some of the oil on this so that I could put less in her feed. I was amazed at how lowering her feed just made her hungrier. She's now on TC Complete/oil because she started turning her nose up at pellets & oil. In the summertime I can reduce the oil and remove the chopped forage because of the grass.

Oh, and another thing I did before lowering her ration much was to put a couple of pounds of her feed mixed in with the nighttime chopped forage. THAT worked like a charm in spreading her feeding out even more. Yes, usually most ended up at the bottom, but that gave me that additional 11pm feeding. :D

Kind of like how satisfying a bag of chips can be? It definitely gets you further throughout the day than a salad - but the salad is healthier (think hay) and increases your metabolism.

The ultium didn't work for me at all.

[Iride]

What doesn't make sense to me about this is, if the horse wasn't eating because it wasn't hungry enough after the grain, then why wouldn't it eat the hay when it was fed first, with no grain yet?

Another thought on this re ulcers. First, assuming there is no tapeworm, I would assume ulcers if the horse does not want to eat. If you've treated for stomach ulcers and can assume the horse doesn't have them now, there is also the likelihood of ulcers of the hind gut or colonic ulcers. Those types of ulcers will NOT be remedied with Ranitidine or Gastrogard. If it were my horse, I would administer Sucralfate (targets hind/colonic ulcers) and Succeed paste for several weeks...if present, those ulcers should start to improve within a week.

[webmistress32]

I didn't know if anyone wanted an update on my mare, but when we took her to University on Monday to be scoped we found an invasive and aggressive cancer in her stomach.

very very very sad and apparently she has had it for years.

[Iride]

I didn't know if anyone wanted an update on my mare, but when we took her to University on Monday to be scoped we found an invasive and aggressive cancer in her stomach.

very very very sad and apparently she has had it for years.

Oh no, poor thing, I am so sorry to hear this. *HUGS* :(

[Simkie]

Oh dear. :( How sad. I'm so sorry.

[webmistress32]

yes this was very very sad.

we did not bring her home from University as there was a very low probability she would be able to start eating again, or have any ability to process anything she ate.

she was a lovely mare, the sweetest girl and we miss her so much.