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daisyduke
Jan. 7, 2008, 06:06 PM
I am planning a trip to the Netherlands. What would be a basic purchase price (not includng import) for a 3rd/4th level dressage horse? I realize this could be a large ball park figure but take into consideration: good movement, good breeding and good training. I was estimating 20,000 - 25,000 euro.

Funckyfilly
Jan. 7, 2008, 06:23 PM
For an older horse maybe. If you want something younger, I would think you would have to double the euros.

Equibrit
Jan. 7, 2008, 06:47 PM
How does a trip to Holland have anything to do with the price of horses in the UK?

daisyduke
Jan. 7, 2008, 07:42 PM
I'm sorry Equibrit if I haven't been clear enough. I am planning a trip to Holland to PURCHASE and IMPORT a horse to North America. I hope this clarifies my intent. My question, is, for comparison only, as I have never visited the Netherlands for this purpose, what would, estimate only, a horse trained to 3rd/4th level, cost? I do not require a lecture or a caution, a simple answer, numerically, would justify. Thanking you in advance.

Walnut Farm
Jan. 7, 2008, 07:44 PM
If you meant NL, then I also think you need to double your amount!! (I do a lot of looking/some shopping in Europe)

UK I don't know, I suspect a little less.

snoopy
Jan. 7, 2008, 07:49 PM
[QUOTE=daisyduke;2920268] My question, is, for comparison only, as I have never visited the Netherlands for this purpose, what would, estimate only, a horse trained to 3rd/4th level, cost? QUOTE]


As far as comparison of horse prices in the UK vs. Holland? I think what Equibrit...and myself for that matter...are trying to figure out is the connection between your question and the heading for your post.
So basically you are asking what a ball park figure is to purchase and ship a horse from Holland to Canada?

dilligaff2
Jan. 7, 2008, 07:53 PM
Did you mean to inquire about the price of horses in NK (Koninkrijk der Nederlanden )? If so, it was just a typo on your part and a logical question for Equibrit to ask.

If you are really asking about Britain, where horses are bought in pounds, not euros, then I am really confused.

Lieslot
Jan. 7, 2008, 07:54 PM
Just browse through : http://www.sporthorses.nl/
From table on left select 'paarden te koop'.
You are probably looking for level (niveau) Z.
So on top select 'paard zoeken' and search for horses of niveau Z only.

That will give you a good idea of the current prices for Z-level horses in the Netherlands.
As far as horses in the UK (England), I don't think they'll be all that much cheaper, certainly not with the British Pound being as strong as it is.
http://www.horsedeals.co.uk/tradeadvert/28/horses-sale-england.htm, you can do a search here too.


But, forgive me to ask again, I'm still a little confused are you going to the UK to look for a prospect or to the Netherlands, or are you planning to visit both?

daisyduke
Jan. 7, 2008, 07:56 PM
Yes, purchase price in the Netherlands for 3rd/4th level horse, not including import cost? The U.K. heading was an oversight. Hopefully all is clear.

dutchmike
Jan. 7, 2008, 10:00 PM
It really depends. As soon as they know it is for the US then 25.000 euro gets you nowhere. If they think it is for the UK then yes you can find something for 25.000 euro's easilly

farriersgirl
Jan. 8, 2008, 08:01 AM
I recently went with to NL with a friend (who purchased a schoolmaster) and you can expect to spend a mimum of $40K euro for a really nice horse - especially if you are an american, they see us coming and see $$$. Price will definately depend on age. A 6 yr old can be schooling third or a 12 yr old can be confirmed 4th - you have to really know what you are looking for. I would reccomend finding an agent/trainer to accompany you as they have access to more horses thru word of mouth and english is not always spoken.

ACMiller
Jan. 8, 2008, 08:33 AM
I know of 3 or 4 horses resently imported in the last year or so that were 8-12 doing 3-PSG that were approx $50,000-$70,000USD *NOT* including aprox $7,OOO-$12,000USD to import.

Personally I'd look in your own back yard figuratively speaking. There are many fabulous horses doing those levels for a fraction of the price, and in some cases they are previous imports too. That's just me... :)

daisyduke
Jan. 8, 2008, 08:56 AM
Thank you for your replies. The prices stated are much higher than I anticipated. It might turn out to be just a holiday and I purchase nothing but a postcard.

hluing
Jan. 8, 2008, 09:06 AM
It seems to good ole days of getting a good deal in Europe are long over. Maybe when the dollar gets stronger it won't be so (gulp) bad!

freestyle2music
Jan. 8, 2008, 09:34 AM
It really depends. As soon as they know it is for the US then 25.000 euro gets you nowhere. If they think it is for the UK then yes you can find something for 25.000 euro's easilly

Maybee you should give us an explanation of this remark, and what you really mean to say.:confused:

dutchmike
Jan. 8, 2008, 09:59 AM
Maybee you should give us an explanation of this remark, and what you really mean to say.:confused:


Oh comeon Theo you read the dutch magazines and papers there are plenty of 4th level horses for sale in Holland for a fraction of what they charge if the horse is for export to the US ;). It just is a fact and has been a fact for many years. Why do you think Argentina is becoming more popular by the day to shop for horses?.

freestyle2music
Jan. 8, 2008, 10:05 AM
Oh comeon Theo you read the dutch magazines and papers there are plenty of 4th level horses for sale in Holland for a fraction of what they charge if the horse is for export to the US ;). It just is a fact and has been a fact for many years. Why do you think Argentina is becoming more popular by the day to shop for horses?.

This is a statement which was valid 10 years ago.:yes:

slc2
Jan. 8, 2008, 10:19 AM
I didn't quite understand your post, but maybe you're british(ok, canadian), and planning to go to holland, perhaps to buy a horse, if the price is right.

My first impulse is to shake you by the lapels and cry loudly, stay home, buy a horse from your area that you're familiar with and have seen at shows, that you and your instructor can ride and look over carefully, and that you can be present at the vetting and hear from others about the horse, a horse you know will fill the bill for you, that you can ride very comfortably without any reservations anywhere, at a price you can very comfortably afford, with plenty left over for equipment, lessons, clinics and shows. Going to another country and relying on someone else to represent your interests is always risky - going over by yourself is more risky.

Price? It completely depends on the quality of the horse. A very pleasant, cooperative 'housewife' horse that many people would enjoy, what would be regarded as a 'school horse' over there and might actually show fairly well here at most shows most people would go to, could be in your price range, but even those tend to get a bit pricey as the number of 'hands on them' increases.

A really super modern type, well balanced horse of that age, trained to third level, trained well? Potential to move up is very clear? Hard to find a really nice one for double your money.

Honestly, it might be difficult to find a domestically bred, half wb in America, trained by an amateur with an instructor giving some supervision, at that level of training, for the price you quote.

It might be difficult for you to find such a horse yourself in Holland, and an agent that might show you horses, might not be likely to target such horses for sale to foreign customers. It could happen, but it wouldn't be the usual thing.

It depends on what one means by 'consider, good training, good breeding'...etc. That statement is too general, unfortunately.

Judging from the ads I've seen, there is a very, very wide range of prices in England. A horse with less suspension, impulsion and quality of gait and conformation, a 'regional quality' horse for an amateur, might be more readily available in England at that price.

What does that mean to you, more importantly, what your goals are, probably needs to be clarified. International competition? Local unaffiliated ('schooling') shows a few times a year, something between the two, or no showing, just having fun with the horse....it's really impossible to give any answer until your goals are more clear.

freestyle2music
Jan. 8, 2008, 10:33 AM
SLC, Location of the OP says Canada

egontoast
Jan. 8, 2008, 11:31 AM
Slc must have had a bad experience on her horse buying trip to Holland.:)

Some people do very well, some don't. Much depends on having trusted and knowledgeable advisers with good contacts. :cool:

slc, did you take someone knowledgeable with you that had some credible contacts?

fiona
Jan. 8, 2008, 11:46 AM
it's really impossible to give any answer until your goals are more clear.

True. But by Golly, you gave it a good shot!

Funckyfilly
Jan. 8, 2008, 11:47 AM
I love my horse from Holland!

Valentina_32926
Jan. 8, 2008, 11:51 AM
People were confused about UK vs NL cause the title of this thread is "Horse prices in UK". :yes:

Seems people understood your intent and are now addressing that request.

Valentina_32926
Jan. 8, 2008, 11:55 AM
I would recommend finding an agent/trainer to accompany you as they have access to more horses thru word of mouth and english is not always spoken.

I had NO problems with english :D - even the VERY old townspeople spoke some english and when combined with hand signals we communicated quite well. :winkgrin: Try looking at some of the jumper bred horses for a dressage prospect - that's where I found mine! :yes:

(She can do both but has spectacular movement with her rear engine.)

Kareen
Jan. 8, 2008, 12:39 PM
I would say you can find a nice 3rd/4th level horse within your budget both in N.A. or Europe. As long as you don't expect it to be olympic quality in that pricerange. Schoolmasters are being offered in this price range all the time but the problem is you need to be sure there aren't any hooks to them or at least no hooks you aren't aware of. I do agree you don't want to go there if you aren't a seasoned horseperson or engage reliable professional help. There are way to many prospective sellers out there (both dealerships or private owners) who are willing to literally have you for breakfast and your remainings for lunch as soon as they sense you are from a foreign country or/and don't know what you are doing. I find this holds true for any place on earth be it Europe or N.A. but the one-time-customer status certainly ads to the risk any horse-shopping already bears to begin with.
The biggest problem in looking for a trained horse is to find the ones that are in fact trained well instead of trained completely wrong, quickfixed into an 'upper level frame' and taught tricks that may look like half pass or collection but are in fact not ;)
It is certainly much easier to get around with English in Holland or Scandinavia than Germany but I think many Europeans will agree there is nothing compares to areas such as Westfalia or Schleswig-Holstein in Germany in terms of 'dressagey' population density so I would consider to check out those areas as well while you are only 2 or 3 hours away. If you feel you are educated to shop on your own definitely make sure to be there for the vetting and I would a-l-w-a-y-s have your home vet look at whatever radiographs you are going to take because our perception of what's acceptable is tremendously different from what N.A. vets will generally think about the same set of x-rays and you don't want to end up with your money sitting in some horse you all of a sudden find can never be resold at home :)
Remember the expense of importation will come on top of anything you buy thus making it a big investment even when you think the price is great. Yes you can still find great deals but there is no point in importing what can be found at home as well and you should have the clear feeling of being treated like a potential repeated customer anywhere you go vs. 'the exotic buyer from outer state'. Because any reputable place in Europe will value your business as a potential source for positive word of mouth while the not-so-reputable ones - well go figure :)
Good luck and have a great trip!

dutchmike
Jan. 8, 2008, 01:25 PM
No matter where you go you can good deals no matter if it is Holland, Belgium, Germany like they say in Holland (het is waard wat de gek ervoor geeft) translation: the value is what the biggest nut offers. Looking at some adds today there are plenty Z level dressage horses for sale under 25.000 Euro's. It is as simpel as this, the main stream riders in Holland are working women and girls that work for the upkeep of their horses. They have plenty of other expenses etc so cannot afford 50.000 euro or higher horses. I would actually dare to say that 80% of horse owners in Holland have horses of 15.000 euro's or less.

freestyle2music
Jan. 8, 2008, 01:36 PM
No matter where you go you can good deals no matter if it is Holland, Belgium, Germany like they say in Holland (het is waard wat de gek ervoor geeft) translation: the value is what the biggest nut offers. Looking at some adds today there are plenty Z level dressage horses for sale under 25.000 Euro's. It is as simpel as this, the main stream riders in Holland are working women and girls that work for the upkeep of their horses. They have plenty of other expenses etc so cannot afford 50.000 euro or higher horses. I would actually dare to say that 80% of horse owners in Holland have horses of 15.000 euro's or less.


The OP wrote :

good movement, good breeding and good training.

Please Dutchmike.... can you guide me to these horses, because when you can I want a shipload of them !

dutchmike
Jan. 8, 2008, 01:48 PM
The OP wrote :

good movement, good breeding and good training.

These 3 qualities says it all doesn't it?. Good for what?. To just ride at home, compete locally, nationally or international. Is it for a person that aims for the stars or is it for someone that rides for fun and just wants to do well?. Theo you know I am right you live in holland and just because you move in the higher market you can't be that blind. Go to any normal (not the high competion barns) and you see people that compete Z dressage on pretty descent horses that are not worth a fortune and maybe haven't got the creme de la creme breeding but do well in their regional competitions.

Have we suddenly forgotten that some years ago some well known trainer would buy 5.000 euro horses ,school them a bit and sell them on for 50.000 euro or more?.
Have we forgotten about horses like Rembrandt that were bought dirt cheap and went on to win everything that is worth to win?.

Have we forgotten those who spend millions on buying already fully trained horses but never actually got to be world champion or olympic champion?.

daisyduke
Jan. 8, 2008, 03:02 PM
All great advice. Thanks.

freestyle2music
Jan. 8, 2008, 05:06 PM
These 3 qualities says it all doesn't it?. Good for what?. To just ride at home, compete locally, nationally or international. Is it for a person that aims for the stars or is it for someone that rides for fun and just wants to do well?. Theo you know I am right you live in holland and just because you move in the higher market you can't be that blind. Go to any normal (not the high competion barns) and you see people that compete Z dressage on pretty descent horses that are not worth a fortune and maybe haven't got the creme de la creme breeding but do well in their regional competitions.

Have we suddenly forgotten that some years ago some well known trainer would buy 5.000 euro horses ,school them a bit and sell them on for 50.000 euro or more?.
Have we forgotten about horses like Rembrandt that were bought dirt cheap and went on to win everything that is worth to win?.

Have we forgotten those who spend millions on buying already fully trained horses but never actually got to be world champion or olympic champion?.

Yes we also sell lottery tickets in Holland.

stolensilver
Jan. 8, 2008, 06:32 PM
I think the issue of how much a horse is worth is one of those "how long is a piece of string" questions. I never know how much to ask for my horses when for whatever reason I need to sell. The last horse I owned from a yearling. I sold him as a 7 years old, 17hh showjumper, so safe and kind a child could ride him, qualified for the 1m30 championships. He went to a friend for £5000 nine years ago because I knew he'd get a good home. He sure did, they've still got him. He's still in full work, fieldmaster with the bloodhounds and popping 5 foot hedges every weekend throughout the winter.

I've currently got too many horses and ought to downsize by selling one but can't quite bear to choose between them. The choice is between an 8yo, competing medium (low 3rd) schooling advanced medium (4th). She wins over 40% of the tests we enter, has had one of the highest marks in the country at 2nd level with 74.8%. Her pirouette work is coming on nicely and she has shown that she has a piaffe. She also qualified for the national championships for 6yo dressage horses. She's also been to multiple regional championships with placings against the professionals. Two brothers are approved graded stallions with WBFSH stud books, one was national elementary (2nd) dressage champion and trained up to Grand Prix. She has pink papers with the BWBS.

The other is homebred. She is 6yo by Flemmingh with his wonderful temperament and is pink papered. This horse is incredibly easy to ride and finds everything easy to do. She is schooling medium (3rd) and I'm hoping to put flying changes on her soon so she can take part in the FEI 6yo tests. She has barely been out competing because I don't have enough time but at her only outing she competed in two novice (1st) level tests and won them both.

So what sort of price would those horses go for? I'm confident both of them will get to PSG at least, hopefully further. They are sound, sane, trained by an amateur and have achieved all of the above while being ridden only 2-3 times a week.

I think in the current market the 8yo would probably fetch about £15-20,000 and the 6yo £12-15,000. And these are both young horses with genuine potential. There would be no chain if I did sell one of them though, just a straight sale from the owner. Is that more or less what they go for in Holland and the US?

dutchmike
Jan. 8, 2008, 07:51 PM
Yes we also sell lottery tickets in Holland.

Sometimes buying a horse that suits the rider is like buying the winning lottery ticket. You actually said something wise :yes:

Horsejudge
Jan. 9, 2008, 10:40 AM
They are sound, sane, trained by an amateur and have achieved all of the above while being ridden only 2-3 times a week.

How can you get them up the levels with only 2-3 times riding a week?

Lieslot
Jan. 9, 2008, 11:32 AM
I would actually dare to say that 80% of horse owners in Holland have horses of 15.000 euro's or less.


VERY, very true (een waarheid als een koe ;))!

Thomas_1
Jan. 9, 2008, 11:39 AM
This is a bit like asking "how long is a length of string"

The OP's criteria "good" is subjective and I'm thinking could be anything within a range that's too big to be useful answer.

DutchNike
Jan. 9, 2008, 11:52 AM
I would actually dare to say that 80% of horse owners in Holland have horses of 15.000 euro's or less.

Correct, however the OP was talking about good movers and good trained horses. Just add an extra zero :cool:

Lieslot
Jan. 9, 2008, 12:01 PM
Correct, however the OP was talking about good movers and good trained horses. Just add an extra zero.

Sure, but adding the zero would mean looking for a horse with qualities worthwhile aiming for the Olympics so to speak. I doubt the OP meant something of that high level.

I am very sure that there are A LOT of very good movers and well trained horses in the Netherlands right now for under 25.000 euros.
Now whether this price would shoot up if one finds out it's for an american sale, that I don't know. I doubt it.

I bought my last guy from a 'stoeterij' that sold many horses within the Netherlands, but also to the UK, the US & Russia. And the prices are the same for all. My guy was nearly sold to Russia, but he would have gone for the same price as he did to me, that I know for a fact.

stolensilver
Jan. 9, 2008, 12:59 PM
Horsejudge the honest answer is I don't know how the horses keep progressing on so little work, the fact is they do! All 3 of them get daily turnout and tear round the field like idiots so fortunately they keep themselves fit. Then I do my best to make every ride count and have one lesson on one of them each week. Who has the lesson depends on what we are working on and what problems I'm having. And the horses, bless them, just keep getting better.

Whether this formula will work beyond PSG I don't know. So far, so good.

Bold Jax
Jan. 9, 2008, 02:11 PM
My trainer's husband is from Germany. He says that as soon as soon as they find out Americans are coming, they take their best horse out so they can't be viewed. Pretty much what you see is th best of what's leftover and at super TOP $$$$$$$$$$.

Why is there still such a focus on European horses?? It's $10,000 just to ship to the west coast on top of inflated prices. They put the fancy moves on the horses, but they are not trained in the basics. Here comes your $50k, $60k, $70k horse that can't show at the level you thought. I have seen so many people spend the money and and end up something other than they thought they were buying and spend timeand more $$$$ getting the horse where it should be.

I happend to have been around an owner who was negotiating in Germany for a horse who made it to the Olympics and WEG. They sent Germans out in search for the horse and initial negotitions and didn't have the US Olympic rider show up until the latter stages when the breeder was pretty much locked into he sale price without kowing the real purchaser.

I can't believe that there aren't some US breeders that can produce quality horses.

Valentina_32926
Jan. 9, 2008, 02:17 PM
Try looking here - horse for sale - some appear quite nice & reasonably priced.

http://www.wattedoen.be/zoekertjes/Paarden-te-koop-200.php4

Lieslot
Jan. 9, 2008, 06:20 PM
Try looking here - horse for sale - some appear quite nice & reasonably priced.

http://www.wattedoen.be/zoekertjes/P...-koop-200.php4

I agree in general I find dressage horses in Flanders better priced, but seldom will they be sold internationally, as one always thinks of Holland first for dressage. (shame, some nice out in Belgium too)
But I agree with what others have said, there certainly are nice warmbloods to be found in this country and with the dollar being what it is and adding the shipping/quarantaine, I'm not sure if it still makes sense to look overseas.

[[Aye aye, this one is nice ;), http://www.wattedoen.be/zoekertjes/Zwartbruine-435002_200.shtml dressage gelding (counter canter, all lateral & flying changes) with show record in level 2 and able to jump a 4ft course only 7000 euros, not bad. Getting carried away myself here. :lol:.]]

However the OP might need a hand reading these ads ;). [[http://www.wattedoen.be/zoekertjes/Dressuurpaard-te-438583_200.shtml - this one is Z-level 12yr DWB - no price mentioned however]]

YankeeLawyer
Jan. 9, 2008, 06:39 PM
Horsejudge the honest answer is I don't know how the horses keep progressing on so little work, the fact is they do! All 3 of them get daily turnout and tear round the field like idiots so fortunately they keep themselves fit. Then I do my best to make every ride count and have one lesson on one of them each week. Who has the lesson depends on what we are working on and what problems I'm having. And the horses, bless them, just keep getting better.


I have one horse that is on this same kind of light program and is doing equally (astonishingly) well. She amazes me. You would think she reads dressage books in her stall. Anyway, I think horses like this are worth their weight in gold. I will never sell this mare.