Ulcer supplements that are actually proven...

[horsegirl520]

I think my horse might have ulcers again, despite being on an OTC supplement (he's been on U-Gard, U-7, Gastro, and Neighlox over the past few years). In 2004, he was scoped and had fairly severe ulcers so we treated him with GastroGard for a month and so ever since then I've given him Ulcergard any time he travels... but he hasn't traveled anywhere lately. He's always on one ulcer prevention supplement or another. Right now, I'm treating him with a full tube of Ulcergard once a day.

Anyways, my question is this: Has anyone had their horse rescoped after feeding their horse an ulcer supplement (that was previously known to have ulcers)? Did the horse have ulcers? What supplement were you using? I'm thinking about putting him on Ranitidine instead of a supplement... has anyone known a horse to have ulcers while on Ranitidine? I'm looking for something that's realistic to feed every day (not Ulcergard) that actually works.

Please share your stories and experiences!

Thanks!

[LookinSouth]

I think my horse might have ulcers again, despite being on an OTC supplement (he's been on U-Gard, U-7, Gastro, and Neighlox over the past few years). In 2004, he was scoped and had fairly severe ulcers so we treated him with GastroGard for a month and so ever since then I've given him Ulcergard any time he travels... but he hasn't traveled anywhere lately. He's always on one ulcer prevention supplement or another. Right now, I'm treating him with a full tube of Ulcergard once a day.

Anyways, my question is this: Has anyone had their horse rescoped after feeding their horse an ulcer supplement (that was previously known to have ulcers)? Did the horse have ulcers? What supplement were you using? I'm thinking about putting him on Ranitidine instead of a supplement... has anyone known a horse to have ulcers while on Ranitidine? I'm looking for something that's realistic to feed every day (not Ulcergard) that actually works.

Please share your stories and experiences!

Thanks!

No experience with ulcers here (personally anyway) but I am pretty sure if your horse has ulcers again he will need to be treated. Supplements don't treat; they only prevent( to some degree) The only thing proven to treat is Gastroguard I *think*.
2004 was 4 years ago, especially if there were severe it is possible you just need to re treat and then go back to supplementation. I would talk to your vet but maybe someone else with have more info.

[horsegirl520]

LookinSouth- That's why I'm treating him right now with a full tube of Ulcergard. Ulcergard is the exact same thing as Gastrogard, except that its sold OTC and labeled for use at 1/4 tube, not a full tube. I'm looking for something to keep him on after I finish treating him, again. I want something that will actually work and keep the ulcers away. I can not afford to keep him on 1/4 tube of Ulcergard forever (that's still about $8/day!)...

[onetempies]

What's his diet consist of and turnout situation?

UG & GG are the only things that treat ulcers. Supplements prevent. What I have ended up doing for my young Ulcer Boy (been treating since he was a weaner in 2003!).... is diet has to be low starch high fat/fiber. Added soaked alfalfa cubes & beet pulp once a day (except for this past week as I've been at home laid up from getting dumped by my mare). Turnout is pretty much 24/7 with the exception of bad weather then he's inside. This has allowed me to bump the UG to the 1/4 tube dose about every 8-12 days. Unfortunately, this will always be part of his life (& my checkbook!) as it's the only thing that keeps him flare-up free & happy.

[horsegirl520]

He's on TC Complete... he's turned out every day and in at night. He was on Ultium, but my new barn doesn't feed it. I'm adding rice bran pellets to the Complete to try to decrease his grain consumption. He has free choice hay.

[deltawave]

Big fat ZERO in terms of good, solid data on anything besides omeprazole therapy, in spite of the number of things marketed for ulcers. No supplement has been shown to prevent, treat, or reduce the incidence of ulcers. Ranitidine is nearly as powerful as omeprazole, at least when compared to regular antacids and all the various potions and nostrums that are marketed.

If I had a horse with ulcers I'd treat with omeprazole and then look to something like ranitidine, tagamet, etc. (H2 blocker) for more long-term "prevention". With the money you save NOT buying the billion and one different supplements I'd think you could find ranitidine, etc. pretty reasonably.

[horsegirl520]

I know there isn't any solid medical research on ulcer supplements... I'm looking for field results here... just experiences people have had.

I'm certainly leaning towards putting him on Ranitidine after he finishes his Ulcergard treatment. What is the recommended dosage? Where is the cheapest place to buy it? I'm sure my vet would prescribe it to my horse... he suggested it in the past.

His symptoms: eating a lot of grain and not getting fat, girthy, refusing jumps, icky coat, "burping" noises occasionally, not cleaning up his meals, not wanting to go forward and nervous/spooky. Pretty much exactly how he was before he was scoped in 2004.

[AppJumpr08]

Free choice hay.

[ShotenStar]

Ranitidine will certainly help with prevention once you have treated .... but (and there is always a 'but' with these statements) ... you need to dose four times a day for it to be effective. Once or twice a day is wasting money.

*star* - who owns the queen of ulcers and should own stock in Merial

[Simkie]

The other thing to look at besides ranitadine is the compounded omeprazole. There have been a few threads here where people sing it's praises, and it IS significantly cheaper than the Merial product. Of course, Merial claims their buffer is what makes omeprazole work for horses...

I haven't used the compounded omeprazole, but I sure have thought about it for my princess mare. I've been using ranitadine and I do think it helps--WHEN I can get her to eat it :-/

[horsegirl520]

Simkie - I was looking at SmartPak's Rx section and they said they can make anything a powder and flavored since it's a compounding pharmacy.. just thought I'd share.

[cartera45]

Add corn oil - it is one of the few things that has been shown to help with ulcers - even the lesions in the gut that you may not be able to see with a scope. If he'll eat hay with oil poured on it, try that - like salad dressing. You don't want to have to increase the grain to get the oil in him. See if he will eat the bagged forage without the molasses and put oil on that. Daily use of all those acid interfering supps can cause rebound hyperacidity, and cause more harm than good. There is no evidence that anything but Ulcergard or Gastrogard work, but even they don't recommend that the horse be on it forever. They need acid to digest so sooner or later, you will just screw up the digestion generally. You may also want to get a stemmier hay that will increase salivation. Do not exercise him on an empty stomach - the movement can push acid onto parts of the stomach not designed for it. I don't mean to feed him grain before riding, but maybe some alfalfa cubes or chopped hay. You may want to try a dose of Ulcergard before exercise. I got a lot of info about ulcers from a vet at Dupont Equine Center - they have done a ton of research on ulcers. He recommended the corn oil and I have since read research on that too. He also said that some horses take much longer to heal than the 28 days recommended for Gastrogard. He has seen it take 6-8 weeks or longer - very expensive I know. The only way to know is to re-scope.

[Seal Harbor]

We did the ug for 28 days, then 40 more days of 1/4 tube of UG. Changed his feed schedule split what he was getting into 4 meals, changed that from Ultium to Ultium and LMF Low Carb Stage 1. He is now on Tagamet twice a day as well. Also upped his alfalfa hay to 1 flake three times a day along with his 2 flakes of timothy 3 times a day. When he goes to shows he is back on the maintenance dose of Ug for the duration of the show, including shipping both ways. The only treats he gets are alfalfa cubes.

He has nearly stopped cribbing, yay!, and has become much sweeter.

I take Prilosec and I can take it every three or 4 days instead of daily and keep my heartburn under control. I suppose they could too. I never forget his stuff but can't remember to take my own pills to save my life.

[deltawave]

WHERE is this information that corn oil is "proven" to help with ulcers? This is like the 3rd time I've seen this mentioned (which of course means that it's officially "factual" now) :rolleyes: yet I've seen NO EVIDENCE anywhere...can someone please supply a link to this research??

[horsegirl520]

Delta- I've also read the oil can help with ulcers... it was in a magazine... PH or Horse Journal I think. Don't know if it is "proven," per say, but if nothing else, it will let you decrease the amount of grain they are getting by increasing fat... which certainly can't hurt!

Seal Harbor- How much Tagamet do you feed?

Thanks to everyone else! If anyone has had their horse scoped after having him on some sort of ulcer prevention regimen, please share what the results of the scoping were.

[deltawave]

I have no problem with feeding oil and think it's a great addition for many horses and many reasons. But I object to the statement (casually flung around FAR too often) "it has been shown to...." on grounds of precision and accuracy. Just the scientist in me! :)

Magazine articles (even the Horse Journal) are not RESEARCH.

[Eventer55]

FWIW Here's my experience: We did 30 days of ulcergard then backed off to every other day and finally got down to 1/4 tube every other day. I give U7 becasue my vet told me to and he events and has ridden ulcer horses. I now give 1/4 tube once a week and every day during stress times. I too have an ulcer and I find I can get away with taking it evey other day or less. (It works almost immediately by the way)

Basically my vet said you have to find what it's going to take to keep your horse comfortable. I'm still experimenting, but I find 1/4 tube is ok for now.

I also feed Platinum Performance. This ulcer thing is a PITA!!!!!

[ShotenStar]

The 'Corn Oil' information came from a study done at one of the universities in Florida ... well-known researcher, good study protocol. Give me some time and I will hunt down the citation.

*star*

[Glorybee]

although no "research" I had one equine nutritionist recommend flax seed..perhaps the oils in flax do something similar to corn oil.

I would also like to hear from people who have scoped/rescoped and used supplements.... interesting to hear what has truly held off ulcers and been "photographed" for lack of a better word.

If we wait for true research on EVERY product ever created for horses:if we wait for research on every equine medical condition: we will surely grow old first...

[ShotenStar]

here's the citation for the corn oil study:

Effect of dietary corn oil supplementation on equine gastric fluid acid, sodium, and prostaglandin E2 content before and during pentagastrin infusion. (http://grande.nal.usda.gov/ibids/index.php?mode2=detail&origin=ibids_references&therow=751636)

*star*

[sarapony]

My ulcer prone mare astounded the vets by still having ulcers, albeit few and small after 2 months on gastroguard, so I have to be fairly aggressive in her 'maintenance' protocol.


Despite the fact that ranitidine is shown to be less effective when not dosed 3x a day, even a single daily dose of about 45 (75mg) pills does a great deal towards reducing any signs of ulcers in my mare. In the winter when she is fed twice a day, she gets ranitidine with each meal. In addition, I feed her brewer's yeast for the probiotics, give her as much alfalfa as she will eat - not much, and dose her with ulcergard when ever we do anything stressful. She gets no sweet feed or electrolytes as there is evidence that the additional sugar can exacerbate ulcer problems. I was told to add corn oil to her diet, in her current barn that isn't really an option, but she does get pelleted rice bran. When ever I drop a single component of this regime, particularly the ranitidine, she starts to lose weight and begin with her tell-tale signs of a bad belly.


If you want to try the ranitidine option, the cheapest route is, surprisingly, buying the OTC generic at Sam's Club or Costco. I priced it out compared to a variety of online vet pharmacies and the Costco pricing won out. Sam's is about $.10 cheaper per 270 pills than Costco, but I try to avoid shopping there as it is part of the Wal-Mart Regime.

[deltawave]

Thank you for the citation. :) Four ponies...not exactly earth-shattering, but it's a step in the right direction! I will continue to balk at using the terms "studies have shown" and "it has been shown", etc. with such a lightweight piece of work but as the authors stated, it is almost certainly harmless and cheap. :)

[murphyluv]

Keep in mind that UG and GG only work on the stomach and not the hind gut ulcers. Hind gut ulceration can also cause a horse to be girthy (not because of the girth- but girthing up the saddle puts pressure on the lower back), jumpy, and difficult to put weight on.

[RunForIt]

Keep in mind that UG and GG only work on the stomach and not the hind gut ulcers. Hind gut ulceration can also cause a horse to be girthy (not because of the girth- but girthing up the saddle puts pressure on the lower back), jumpy, and difficult to put weight on.

So, WHAT DOES work on hindgut ulcers? Asking because girthiness and lots of resentment to the leg on his right side are the only signs of ulcers in my little gelding...have been thinking its ulcers. :confused:

[deltawave]

As I understand it (and I'm no expert by any means) there are multiple causes of colonic ulcers in horses, and therefore no one specific "treatment", much less any known supplements that would help in such a varying and multifactorial problem. I know NSAIDs are implicated in one variety, and have seen old stuff implicating parasites.

Here is a nice summary I found:
http://www.ivis.org/proceedings/aaepfocus/2005/Andrews.pdf

[cartera45]

Much of my info on ulcers came from Dr. Harold McKenzie at Morven. Dr. Murray there has done a great deal of research on ulcers. I do not know if Dr. Murray is still affiliated with Dupont or not. At the time, my horse was there being treated for an impaction. Dr. McKenzie told me to add corn oil because there was evidence that it could help heal ulcers in the gut. I didn't question him on the evidence or demand proof. I found that he was quite responsive and am happy to email him again, remind him of our conversation, and see if I can get more up to date in info on this. I am also wondering if Chronicle could do a "ask the expert" on ulcers.

[RunForIt]

Much of my info on ulcers came from Dr. Harold McKenzie at Morven. Dr. Murray there has done a great deal of research on ulcers. I do not know if Dr. Murray is still affiliated with Dupont or not. At the time, my horse was there being treated for an impaction. Dr. McKenzie told me to add corn oil because there was evidence that it could help heal ulcers in the gut. I didn't question him on the evidence or demand proof. I found that he was quite responsive and am happy to email him again, remind him of our conversation, and see if I can get more up to date in info on this. I am also wondering if Chronicle could do a "ask the expert" on ulcers.

Did Dr. McKenzie recommend a specific amount of corn oil? Also, are there feeds that tend to exacerbate the formation of ulcers? Thanks!

[cartera45]

My understanding is to give them the very least amount of grain that you can get by with - and most horses don't need as much as they get, if they have nutritious hay. At the time, Dr. McKenzie wasn't a sweet feed nazi - he just said to keep the grain to a minimum but he didn't elaborate. I didn't ask because my horse was on so little grain anyway. With ulcers, you want to do what you can to increase salivation, since saliva is the natural buffer to acid. Hay and, in particular, stemmy hay that needs a lot of chewing increases salivation. Some horses prone to ulcers, can get a flare up when food is deprived for just a few hours. When a couple of flakes of hay is given at night and that is gone in an hour or two and they're on shavings so they can't even munch on straw, that can be enough to cause a flare up. They stand in their stalls for 6-8 hours with nothing going into the stomach, but they produce acid 24/7. When my horse was laid up with a puncture wound not too long ago and on stall rest, my vet said to take all the grain away from her but to make sure she had hay in front of her every minute - he had ulcers in mind then. I paid the BO extra and went to the barn late at night to give her hay so she would have it all night long. She was also on straw that she would eat. One problem today is that, because of hay and straw prices and availability, some barns are relying more and more on grain and don't bed with straw.

[sing]

So if you are getting increased prostaglandins intestinally, are you also "buying" increased inflammation systemically, or is there a dose that allows you to balance the two??????

[cartera45]

I saw Dr. McKenzie at the Maryland Horse Expo last year and asked him about the issue of corn oil and inflammation and he said there was no evidence that he was aware of that oil had any connection to inflammation in horses and he didn't believe you could extrapolate from humans. Regardless, he didn't believe the amount of oil that would be added - even if there is already some oil in grains, would have any effect. I think you have a personal decision as to whether you buy into the argument that certain oils cause systemic inflammation and, if so, does that extend to horses. I wouldn't add corn oil to a horse's diet who was asymptomatic - my "fatty oil" of choice is flax. If I had a horse who continued to battle ulcers after a good long treatment with Gastrogard, I would try corn oil as a management change, along with other things. If I got things under control, I would probably then switch to another fat source.

[cartera45]

I just took a look at the schedule for this years Maryland Expo and this doctor will be there - he lists ulcers as an area of interest. I'm not sure I'll be going because I am soon to be horseless and I think it may too sad for me to go, but someone from the board should go and ask questions and report back. There are several nutritionists on the schedule - though many of them represent companies.

Dr. Hoyt Cheramie (Equine Healthcare) - Dr. Hoyt Cheramie received his Bachelor of Science in Dairy Production and Doctor of Veterinary Medicine degrees from Louisiana State University in 1990 and 1993 respectively. After acquiring some experience in private practice in Kentucky, he completed an internship at the University of Tennessee. Dr. Cheramie then completed a combined Large Animal Surgery Residency and Masters program at the Virginia-Maryland Regional College of Veterinary Medicine in 1998. He remained at VA Tech as a clinical instructor and research assistant in Large Animal Surgery for the following year. Dr. Cheramie became a Diplomate of the American College of Veterinary Surgeons in 2000. Between 1999 and February 2007, he practiced performance horse medicine and surgery in the New Orleans, Atlanta and Chicago areas. He joined Merial in February 2007 as a member of the Equine Veterinary Professional Services team with responsibilities for the eastern US. Dr. Cheramie currently resides in the Lexington, KY area. His interests include colic and performance limiting problems such as gastric ulceration and hoof/foot diseases.

[murphyluv]

as someone else posted- if your horse goes without food for 6-8 hours, they've started getting an ulcer as they are producing acid 24/7. Obviously if you have a horse that is stressed just feeding lots of hay isn't going to prevent ulcers alone, but it does help.
ETA- been thinking about the corn oil thing. Seeing as how there is only one place (cornell I think) that can scope...from both directions... it's hard to say that something is PROVEN to heal hind gut ulcers. My theory (of course, I know a believer in corn oil will dash this) is that the corn OIL probably coats the gut and makes the horse feel better, without HEALING the gut. Any takers on that?

[deltawave]

"Coating" the gut sounds very nice in theory and looks plausible in TV commercials (I'm picturing the Pepto Bismol commercial: "coats, soothes, relieves") but actually makes very little physiologic "sense". Fats like corn oil are promptly broken down and carted off to be utilized.

[thumbsontop]

I was at the saddle shop today browsing at Ulcergard and the owner told me that Ulcer-eze is much less expensive and just as good. I'll have to try it sometime. It was a liquid.

[Fiat Lux]

Did Dr. McKenzie recommend a specific amount of corn oil? Also, are there feeds that tend to exacerbate the formation of ulcers? Thanks!

The study that was cited by shotenstar used 45mL of corn oil per day, which, according to www.convert-me.com is just over 3 tablespoons -- not much! My gelding's ulcer symptoms are definitely helped by corn oil, but he has to have it at the max recommended amount (2 cups per day).

Thanks, shotenstar, for posting that study -- interesting!

[El Tovar]

http://www.galenicom.com/pt/medline/article/15320596

this is the univ of FL that did corn oil study-abstract.

its about 3/4 oz twice a day they are talkign about.

reduced HCL production and protected prostoglandin E2 in the glandular stomach.

that amount of corn oil does not scare me-as far as inflammation goes.

[murphyluv]

ah, thanks for explaining that to me. Duh on the fat broken down. I was trying to get my head around why the hell corn oil would work on ulcers. who woulda thunk.
I'd still like to see more research about side affects and how long you would have to use it..

[El Tovar]

this 45 mils was put directly into stomach with an existing surgically placed cannula...and these were PONIES so the amount is low.

Personally I would NOT feed corn oil...I would heal the gut using kamanimalservices.com as I have done on 8 boarded horses in the last 2 years, with no recurrences.

It worked. vets are impressed.

[deltawave]

FOUR ponies, to be precise. Hold you Nobel prize nominations for now. It's good to see the work done, but it's a VERY small study and the endpoints, etc. were soft. They were looking only at acid and prostaglandin levels in stomach juice, not rates of ulcer healing, recurrence, etc etc.

[Fiat Lux]

this 45 mils was put directly into stomach with an existing surgically placed cannula...and these were PONIES so the amount is low.

Personally I would NOT feed corn oil...I would heal the gut using kamanimalservices.com as I have done on 8 boarded horses in the last 2 years, with no recurrences.

It worked. vets are impressed.

How long did you feed it, or are they still on it for maintenance?

[cartera45]

The vet I talked to wasn't basing his recommendation on the 4 pony experience. He was basing it on the science behind prostaglandin production. I didn't get the impression that they considered it any huge scientific discovery - more like common sense based on what they know about acid and ulcers.

[horsegirl520]

Personally I would NOT feed corn oil...I would heal the gut using kamanimalservices.com as I have done on 8 boarded horses in the last 2 years, with no recurrences.

Unfortunatly, that's not an option for me. Some of its ingredients are illegal under USEF rules.

[Eventer55]

I was at the saddle shop today browsing at Ulcergard and the owner told me that Ulcer-eze is much less expensive and just as good. I'll have to try it sometime. It was a liquid.

Can someone provide the studies that show ulcer-eze does the same thing as ulcergard.

[deltawave]

What IS ulcer-eze? There is a product with the same name that my dentist uses for canker sores.

[deltawave]

Found it...it's "Ulser-Eze" made by Saratoga. Yet another plain old antacid. Can't find the ingredient list but it's an "antacid/antigas" product. Probably same thing as good old Gaviscon. You won't find any studies on it...in spite of what the person at the tack store said. :lol:

[Eventer55]

You can buy ulcer-eze, but you can't find any studies that prove it works. It's sold under Saratoga products, but I find no studies:confused:

I've heard of it and it's for sale at the co op.

[deltawave]

It's also about $50/gallon. Yikes! That's crazy.

[toowoomba2]

Are there any studies done on horses with chronic ulcers that improve when taken off of grain? I can't help but think that this is the major culprit, especially for horses that aren't under any stress and still get ulcers after treatment is completed. My OTTB can't handle changes in grain, and seems to have ulcer problems every winter when forage is less and grain increases to keep his weight up. This winter I'm trying another approach: 1/2 ration of grain, the other 1/2 ration replaced with soaked beet pulp, 28 days of "generic" gastrogard full strength, 28 days half strenght. I'll find out in 2 months if it works ;-)

On another note, I think people are getting the whole omega 3 vs omega 6 study confused with corn oil and inflamation since its high in omega 6.

[risingstarfarm]

I was surprised to see that no one mentioned Succeed. I've had extremely good results with horses with severe ulcers (following treatment with gastro or ulcer-guard).

[deltawave]

Maybe because nobody can afford it! :lol: That has GOT to be the priciest thing going in the supplement world. :eek: Very clever of them to jack the price up (there is nothing on the ingredient list that justifies this) because people certainly are willing to pay! For $45 a pound, I'd be expecting gold-plated poop. :)

Where are Succeed's data, by the way?

[risingstarfarm]

Well since I don't work for the company - I have no idea where the data are.

I am strictly sharing anecdotal experiences - since there are very limited data available on any ulcer supplements.

[woops]

Has anyone mentioned BEET Pulp??
Due to the way beet pulp digest it helps keep the ph of the hind gut balanced,
isnt it true most problems start there, I have stronly experienced the use of beet pulp and Probiotics to keep ulcers down. I have also read recently that ulcer medications only work for a few hours ---- so they makes me wonder about all these expensive products are they just for us to feel good.
I have a mixture I make now and before a lesson or class I shoot a syringe full of the mix up. I do notice a difference. Just my experience.

[sing]

But if you have ever given bute(an NSAID that blocks porstaglandins) to reduce pain or inflammation, then you are assuming that prostaglandins are associated with pain and inflammation, right?
And if corn oil increases prostaglandins then what?????
Are these dose dependent effects, are there dfferent kinds of prostaglandins???
If you give corn oil(increases prostaglandins) to protect your horse from ulcers while giving bute(to reduce prostaglandins) then what?????
Nutrition makes my head hurt.

[deltawave]

Horses are complicated organisms. You simply can't extrapolate simple cause and effect the way the nutraceutical companies seem to like to do.

Prostaglandins ARE associated with pain and inflammation. However, there are indeed numerous TYPES of prostaglandins, some of which are not as involved with the inflammatory response.

We cannot and SHOULD not be making these massive intuitive leaps. The questions generated can only be answered by good, well-done research.

But hell, if I owned a company that sold a nutraceutical and I could charge THREE DOLLARS AN OUNCE for the stuff and people would buy it with NO proof, why would I bother with the research?

[Simkie]

Maybe because nobody can afford it! :lol: That has GOT to be the priciest thing going in the supplement world. :eek: Very clever of them to jack the price up (there is nothing on the ingredient list that justifies this) because people certainly are willing to pay! For $45 a pound, I'd be expecting gold-plated poop.

Did you go look at this company? www.kamanimalservices.com

Now THAT is the most expensive stuff I've EVER seen. Holy cow! $175 for a pound and a half of their ulcer stuff :eek:

[deltawave]

Oh yeah, they're one of my favorites. Love the introduction, aimed straight at the guilty, angst-ridden heart of every helicopter horse owner out there with deep pockets:

Have you had a horse diagnosed with insulin resistance, ulcers, allergies, lameness, back pain, colic, hoof problems, arthritis and so on? Do you struggle to determine the best nutrition for your horses and become completely overwhelmed by the vast array of feeds and supplements available? Are you frustrated by the difficulty of sifting through all the propaganda and marketing hype to find factual and helpful information?Just buy our stuff and ALL of your worries will be over! :lol: But it's NOT propaganda or marketing hype, OH NO. Our stuff is DIFFERENT.

[horsegirl520]

If I could afford Succeed or kamanimalservices.com, I would be able to afford Ulcergard! I'm looking for something that isn't more than $2.50 per day, tops, that will keep the ulcers away. Too bad an apple won't do the trick like it does for doctors ;)

[equinelaw]

I think alfalfa helps. I found a few studies (research--not ads) that showed just a few lbs of Alfalfa a day can really help buffer the tummy. Its the calcium and protein--2 really great buffers. Its fairly cheap, it replaces some grain, and if you soak it you can get some water in there too--always a good thing:)

I would feed 1/2 lb before working the horse to protect his upper stomach from splashing acids. Thats doable and not too much $$$$$ or bother? Cubes or chopped bagged can be found anywhere. . . . . .

[deltawave]

I can afford Succeed and kamanimalcult.com but there's no way in HE** I would pay for their products without some VERY compelling proof that they work.

[sarapony]

I tried Succeed after I found someone selling several buckets that they had won in a contest for $50ish instead of $95. I saw no difference in my mare but she was already on an ulcer management diet.


Over the past year, I have tried Gastro, G.U.T., Succeed and plain ole Brewer's Yeast. I can't say that I've noticed much of a difference in my horse while on any of them. However, I am paranoid enough that I do keep her on the Brewer's Yeast since it is only about $15/month and pro-biotics never do any harm.

[cartera45]

horsegirl, I think what many of us are saying is that no one has come up anything that will likely cure the ulcers other than Gastrogard. The reason is that they have buffered it in a way that it works all day long. If you go to another product that works in a similar way, you have to give it every 6-8 hours - that means in the middle of the night for most. If a couple hours too long go by without it working, you have acid again and you're wasting your money. If the Gastrogard didn't work, then either he wasn't on it long enough or management didn't change enough to keep him from getting them back. Since he is a show horse and I assume is in training most if not all of the year, he is a high risk category. Any antacid type product that works to interfere with acid production on a daily basis over the long run is probably going to do more harm than good. There are vets who believe that the result is that more acid is produced in the long run - the rebound effect. Try some of the management things that have been suggested - different hay, soaked alfalfa cubes, no training on an empty stomach, less grain and add some corn oil. If the ulcers are there, it's a long shot that any of these things will get rid of them, but maybe your horse will respond - no one knows. These are things suggested to do once the ulcers are healed to minimize the chance of a reoccurence.

[Showjumper28]

I have no problem with feeding oil and think it's a great addition for many horses and many reasons. But I object to the statement (casually flung around FAR too often) "it has been shown to...." on grounds of precision and accuracy. Just the scientist in me! :)

Magazine articles (even the Horse Journal) are not RESEARCH.

It was actually done by Rutgers University I believe (the research I mean) and was in one of the mags I think PH and maybe the horse news for those of you on the east coast.

[horsegirl520]

horsegirl, I think what many of us are saying is that no one has come up anything that will likely cure the ulcers other than Gastrogard. The reason is that they have buffered it in a way that it works all day long. If you go to another product that works in a similar way, you have to give it every 6-8 hours - that means in the middle of the night for most. If a couple hours too long go by without it working, you have acid again and you're wasting your money. If the Gastrogard didn't work, then either he wasn't on it long enough or management didn't change enough to keep him from getting them back. Since he is a show horse and I assume is in training most if not all of the year, he is a high risk category. Any antacid type product that works to interfere with acid production on a daily basis over the long run is probably going to do more harm than good. There are vets who believe that the result is that more acid is produced in the long run - the rebound effect. Try some of the management things that have been suggested - different hay, soaked alfalfa cubes, no training on an empty stomach, less grain and add some corn oil. If the ulcers are there, it's a long shot that any of these things will get rid of them, but maybe your horse will respond - no one knows. These are things suggested to do once the ulcers are healed to minimize the chance of a reoccurence.

I understand that Gastrogard/Ulcergard is the only thing that will cure ulcers. I'm looking for something that will keep them away after he is cured again, that doesn't cost $8/day (Ulcergard).

TC Complete is a beet pulp based feed. He's getting corn oil now, so hopefully we'll be able to decrease his grain. Still on U-Gard and being treated with Ulcergard. I'm trying not to become a pain-in-the-butt boarder... so I really don't want to resort to making absurd requests. He has free choice hay 24/7 and is turned out all day (in at night). He hasn't been to a show since September... so nothing should really be "high" stress in his life right now.

[cartera45]

Personally, I don't think there is anything. You do have to be sure that he is cured and not just asymptomatic - that will mean rescoping to make sure the ulcers are gone. Then the best thing is to make the management changes. I would not put an ulcer free horse on any of the daily ulcer supps.

[purplnurpl]

Free choice hay.

I'm sorry. I just blew boogers out my nose. I love COTH.
This sounded like one of those 1 liners I sometimes throw out there.

Seems when it comes to supplements/joint/tummys...we talk in circles. I often leave the boards more confused then when I arrived. There are so many opinions/trials/discussions.

BTW, does your saddle fit?
I suggest a fleece works pad, thinline pad, and 300 dollar contoured girth with sheepskin cover.
You also might need a chiropractor and massage therapist and most likely a new farrier.
(I have had a long terrible morning and am feeling sarcastic…can you tell?)

[StrawberryFrosted]

Hi All,
Just thought I would add to this thread that I am finally getting my guy scoped this Sat...so I will let you know what the vet says!
He's a cribber and colics every month! (I posted a thread about him a while ago).
At any rate, I have tried many different things to get him to stop colicing and I zoned in on the fact that I think he has ulcers.
He only gets 1/4 scoop of SafeChoice grain with oil on top 2x per day. He is on Tractguard, which again is one of those antacid supp that claim it helps w/ ulcers....so if he still has ulcers, I won't be using that product anymore and try something else.
I supp with beet pulp and alfalpha pellets (soaked) as his third meal.

So we'll see what happens when we scope!

[purplnurpl]

ditch the tractguard.
Omeptazole for treatment and tagement for after treatment. those are what will help.


Safechoice has a much higher NCS then once thought which is not great for ulcers.

[shawneeAcres]

I ahve not had time to read thru the replies, but it has been proven that part to all of the horses hay diet should be alfalfa to prevent ulcers. THis has been studeied and apparently alfalfa has something that prevents ulcers from forming (I think it may be the high clacium content, but just my opinion).

[Hollywood]

ditch the tractguard.
Omeptazole for treatment and tagement for after treatment. those are what will help.


Safechoice has a much higher NCS then once thought which is not great for ulcers.

purplnpurl, how much tagement, and just once a day?

Has anyone switched to a feed like Buckeye Safe and Easy? Seems like a good feed for ulcer prone horses, but the fat content is low and not sure it would work for a hard keeper?

Just checking b/c I am treating with GG right now as I have an OTTB that I have been giving daily doses of banamine or bute due to injuries the last 3 weeks!

[purplnurpl]

My tagement was RX'd by vet. He gave me doses to use for my horses current problem.
So I can't help with dosage.

Probably when I get to the point where I am using some sort of tummy med everyday I'll call again for those dosages.

sorry. : (

[Skip's Rider]

Sarapony, you said that you give 75 mg ranitidine when you give it once a day. What is the dose you use when you give it twice a day in the winter?

Seal, what is the dose of tagamet you use for your horse?

Horsegirl, how about an update? How's your horse doing?

I keep coming back to this thread because my horse is going through the same thing. I treated him for ulcers late summer into fall. He got 1 tube of Ulcergard daily for 6 weeks, then half a tube for 4 weeks. Since then, he's been on U-Gard pellets twice a day with his grain. Well, I'm pretty sure the ulcers are back so I did a 2-week trial with 1/4 tube Ulcergard per day. At the end of the 2 weeks I had a wonderful horse. I backed off the dose to every other day, then stopped altogether. After 10 days of no Ulcergard, horse has become very cranky and difficult. So, he's back on the Ulcergard. I plan to keep him on the 1/4 tube for a while, but I'm also looking for maintenance after the Ulcergard is done. He's now getting hay 24/7, but I don't plan to go back to the U-Gard pellets. I'm looking at either tagamet or ranitidine. That's why I'm so interested in the doses.

Seal, I'm very impressed that your horse has nearly stopped cribbing. My horse used to be a very light cribber, but now he's a serious cribber. After Ulcergard, he cribbed less, but not back to the point where he was a few years ago. Maybe that will come with longer term care. Are there any alfalfa treats besides the cubes?

It seems that maintenance needs vary a lot from horse to horse, so you just have to figure out what is going to work for your particular horse. Thanks everybody for sharing your experiences. It's not "scientific", but we don't have much scientific literature to guide us here (except 1/4 tube Ulcergard every day).

[Showjumper28]

Does anyone use magnesium to help with ulcers? If yes, which supplement do you use?

[Skip's Rider]

The U-Gard pellets contain 3.5% magnesium, so at the recommended dose (2 scoops/day or 56 grams), that equals about 2 grams/day. According to Eleanor Kellon's book on equine supplements, a horse used as a hunter probably requires about 10 grams per day. So, 2 grams would be 20% of the horse's requirement. My new NRC is at work, so I couldn't check the latest numbers available. It's really hard to know if magnesium supplementation would work because you would have to know what's delivered in the feed and what the balance with other minerals is. In any event, the U-Gard pellets did not seem to help my horse.

[Hunter/JumperMom]

my 20 year old tb(different horse than daughters show horse!!!) has been scoped for ulcers treated, and for preventitive, we make sure he always has hay, and gets powdered milk of mag in his feed daily. He has been fine, except when he eats treats he cribs, non-stop. Have noticed the cribbing has become worse in the past month, and after reading this thread, realized he no longer gets oil in his feed. I think it was rice bran oil???? new manager took over, and old just put the oil in everyones feed. Could the fact that hes not getting this oil be causing the ulcers to act up and why hes cribbing more (more like windsucking) but i guess its the same??

[rcloisonne]

purplnpurl, how much tagement, and just once a day?
While ranitidine (Tagamet) has never been approved for use in horses or shown to be effective, the recommendation is 2-3X/day. It is a short acting drug (12 hours or less) even in humans.

Here's part of one comprehensive article. You can Google more.

Ranitidine is not antiandrogenic. Clinical and research experiences have demonstrated that a minimum dosage of 4.4 mg/kg of both cimetidine and ranitidine must be given. Cimetidine should be given 4-6 times daily and ranitidine 2-3 times daily to be effective. It has even been recommended to give cimetidine at 8.8 mg/kg. Medications should be given for 10-21 days. Lower dosages, from 1.1 to 2.2 mg/kg, have been effective in alleviating clinical signs of gastric ulcers, but endoscopic examination has revealed that significant ulceration was present.

http://www.scottcreek.com/Ulcers.htm

[Ketch]

I am surprised no one on here has mentioned papaya. OP, that really may be your solution. There is a papaya juice specifically marketed for this purpose (I believe a COTH member's sister owns or started the company that sells it??). I used this for my guy very successfully. He has a pretty taxing show schedule and is extremely ulcer-prone and it worked. I have him on Gastro-Guard now, simply because he is not loving the hay he currently gets and also because my relatively new barn prefers using GG but the papaya worked wonders for me. If you do a search, I believe it has been discussed on here and there was a link to the website where it's sold. If you can't find it and are interested, let me know and I'm sure I can dig up the info. It really is an inexpensive, remarkably effective, maintenance solution.

[horsegirl520]

What about sucralfate? Opinions?

[SLW]

When my then 6 month old colt had ulcers I found this webpage and incorporated some of her ideas into his rehab diet including 20cc of Maalox prior to each meal for three weeks. http://www.lunatunesfreestyles.com/ulcers.htm

He was treated w/ Gastrogard. Since November to address the stomach acid he receives a flake of alfalfa hay each evening with his brome hay. I could only find one 1000# bale of alfalfa hay which is why he isn't getting it twice a day- I need this to last. He is on Foxden Equines "Tract Gard". He gets beet pulp w/ a small amount of whole oats twice a day.

The vet & I think my guy got his ulcer during weaning so we don't anticipate this being an ongoing problem. In time I'll remove the "TractGard" but I like the idea of him receiving prebiotics & extra salt during the winter. I plan to find first cutting alfalfa this year and keep that as a regular part of his diet.

[deltawave]

Ranitidine is Zantac. Cimetidine is Tagamet.