You know you look at the horses on historical re-enactment programs . . .

[Drive NJ]

Tricia and I were watching the PBS- Andrew Jackson program last night and naturally my eye kept being drawn to the horses and horse/carriages through-out.

They must have hired a local commercial carriage operation for this one as a good bulk of the vehicles were white Vis-a-vis(s). And thos time anachronisms were right out there to see . . .

Beautiful (though modern) Landau but the Belgian in front had big ball-topped wooden hamed work harness

One gorgeous pair of either Friesiens or Big Black Perches (hard to tell, since they never focused on them)

But when the white Vis-a-vis stopped in front of the White House and was standing there with the Bun Bag - you just know someone was not thinking

[Renae]

Yes, if they wanted to be accurate they would have chosen Saddlebreds for the movie, as many of the American breeds of that time, such as the Naragansett Pacer and Candian Pacer, no longer exist but they would be the closest things now to them. The American Saddle Horse was first notably mentioned in history when one was given as a gift to Marie Antionette in 1776.

[RidesAHaflinger]

:D Sometimes you see things like modern stainless steel loose-ring snaffles or Kimberwicks on Medieval chargers. Hmmm.

Over the holidays I watched a DVD called "The Horses of Gettysburg." Aside from being an excellent documentary with actual photos of the horses, mules and vehicles used in the Civil War, I scrutinized the harness and tack closely in the re-enactment footage and thought they did a very good job of using military harness and tack. I saw nary a nylon halter and the bits looked quite authentic. The limbers and caissons that carried the guns and ammo looked very 'period' to me as well. The folks who do the Civil War re-enactments really do seem to hone in on the details. It's a good show and I recommend it for you other horse and carriage nuts out there. :D

[Thomas_1]

I've done quite a bit of film work and including period dramas.

Its very rare that authenticity is a requirement of the production staff and indeed its often most definitely not wanted nor desired for a whole host of reasons.

I can't help myself from watching all films looking at the driving turnouts mainly to see if I know whose driving when they're English productions.

Furthermore because I live in a place historically famous, there's often films about or situated in the area.

The worst for being absolutely and utterly incorrect on every level was Braveheart. Not only were the horses all to pot wearing American Saddlery and neck reining even! but William Wallace was supposed to have walked from York to battle where I live overnight ...... it takes me 3 hours to drive it at !!! IN A CAR.

And what about the film Black Beauty? They changed the horse in that 4 times and including from a gelding to a mare! Even my daughters spotted that when they were little girls

[PiesMom]

I've done quite a bit of film work and including period dramas.

snip

I can't help myself from watching all films looking at the driving turnouts mainly to see if I know whose driving when they're English productions.



Thomas, for the longest time it seemed that English period dramas would use the same high-stepin' chestnuts (Gelderlands I believe?) Am I correct in remembering that those were Peter Munt's horses??

[War Admiral]

Speaking of which, Thomas, been meaning to ask you if you know who did the turnouts for the Granada TV Adventures of Sherlock Holmes series (the Jeremy Brett one). Been watching those and there's some nice stuff in there!

[Thomas_1]

It depends which English Period Dramas you mean. And to be honest, there's an array of horses in most of them and a collection of drivers.

But you're right in thinking that Peter Munt has provided horses for film work. As has Sanders Watney, Robert Smith, John Parker. Peter did indeed have a team of chestnut gelderlanders and the ones I remember I particularly liked of his were his "Irish Greys" which I think were Irish Draft cross t/b or something else perhaps.

I did some work in Sherlock Holmes - Hands of a Murderer but that was Edward Woodward and in the Return of Sherlock Holmes and The Casebook of Sherlock Holmes which was Jeremy Brett - all done in the mid to late 1980's. John and Robert were also employed in those too. Sanders died I think in 1980sh and then I think Sir John Miller took over as President of the BDS.

Gosh now you've got me reminiscing!

[War Admiral]

Haha, I did sort of wonder whether some of those (in the Jeremy Brett SH) were yours! Which ones?? There's a gig that recurs in the city scenes & reminded me of you, a bit...???

[Thomas_1]

By heck, now you are testing my memory!

Pair of black welsh cobs

Team of purebred bay (2 with a white blaze) welsh section D's (also driven as singles in other scenes)

Team of greys (mixed 2 lippizaner and 2 Irish Draft X)

Pair of bay Dutch Warmbloods

[Thomas_1]

I've been glued to BBC's new production of Jane Austin's Sense and Sensibility.

There's been some absolutely fantastic horses and carriages on that.

One of the nicest curicles I've ever seen on there tonight and a really spectacular double brougham.

And I couldn't for the life of me see who was driving them so that has me really curious now.

[I'm EBO]

The series starts in the US tomorrow night. Pacific time is 9 till 11 for Persuasion.

[J. Turner]

In JA's Northanger Abbey, I believe, there's a scene where the main character, Catherine, becomes enraptured by the rake John Thorpe and they go flying through the city of Bath in his curricle I believe. Curricles are popular carriages in Jane Austen novels.

There is also a scene in Mansfield Park where the sisters Maria and Julia are fighting for the attentions of the somewhat-to-be rake Henry Crawford and on their way to Maria's fiance's estate there is a "to-do" about who is going to sit up with Henry who is driving and have a view. I can't remember what kind of carriage, though. There was also a fight/discussion about how many people could fit because Edmund wanted Fanny, the main character who's quiet as a mouse and won't stand up for herself, to go. Edmund finally said he'd stay home with his mom, Lady Bartram, so Fanny could go.

I am having fun intermittently writing a Pride & Prejudice sequel. I'm so glad I have somewhere to go for fact finding.

Would someone like to design Darcy's Pemberley livery for me. I was thinking of a fawn base, but of course will take other ideas.

I thought I'd add that in the director commentary of P&P3 (the 2005 film production), the director Joe Wright has a scene where Lizzie arrives at Hunsford in Kent (where her cousin Mr. Collins and fr. the now Charlotte Collins live). The camera pans back a bit to put the who carriage (more of a wagon or cart) in the from, and lovely looking chestnut cob (?). Joe comments that he usually doesn't like these long looks (he's more of a close up man - see the sex scene in "Atonement") at carriages, houses, etc., but the horse stood so nicely and the light was so beautiful, he couldn't help himself.

[J. Turner]

In movies, why do they use driving bits (like liverpools) for riding horses?

[Thomas_1]

^ They don't. Normally they're something like kimblewicks or a double bridle with a weymouth or pelhams.

[J. Turner]

^ They don't. Normally they're something like kimblewicks or a double bridle with a weymouth or pelhams.

Here's one of my favorite pictures, Emma Thompson and Hugh Grant riding together (not driving, sorry, but on the movie topic). Did they have leaping heads on side saddles in the late-Georgian, Regency eras?
http://www.erasofelegance.com/entertainment/movies/sense/sense9b.jpg

Some questions about movie stills:
Kind of carriage in this Sense & Sensibility still. This I believe is Mrs. Jennings, mother of Lady Middleton. Sir John Middleton has essentially put them up at Barton Cottage on his property after being impoverished after the death of the Dashwood girl's father. I don't think we know whether Sir John is a knight, baron, or baronet, but does the carriage, equipage, etc. look like the right station?http://www.erasofelegance.com/entertainment/movies/sense/sense9b.jpg

Not trying to be overly argumentative, but of course I know they're often correct, but for fun I'll list some faux pas. I'd actually do some more but my computer is acting retarded.

Alan Rickman in Sense & Sensibility with what look like a liverpool bit: http://www.erasofelegance.com/entertainment/movies/sense/sense26b.jpg

Here's a picture of the 2007 Northanger Abbey, which was mostly filmed in Ireland in a rebuilt Bath. Catherine Morland and a horse with a rather modern looking bridle and eggbutt snaffle:
http://image30.webshots.com/466/7/4/97/2051704970045565162dUlPdT_fs.jpg

[Thomas_1]

Did they have leaping heads on side saddles in the late-Georgian, Regency eras? The third horn, or the leaping head came in in the early/mid 19th century. Side saddles first had a 2nd horn to allow ladies to hunt long before then though - I think even before the 17th century..... So long before Hugh Grant :winkgrin:

Some questions about movie stills:
Kind of carriage in this Sense & Sensibility still. I don't think we know whether Sir John is a knight, baron, or baronet, but does the carriage, equipage, etc. look like the right station?http://www.erasofelegance.com/entertainment/movies/sense/sense9b.jpg You clearly have an obsession with Hugh Grant..... You posted a photo of him again ;)
Alan Rickman in Sense & Sensibility with what look like a liverpool bit: http://www.erasofelegance.com/entertainment/movies/sense/sense26b.jpg Personally speaking, I don't think the photo is good enough to tell and it could be any bit with ports. (but then I've got old eyes!)
Here's a picture of the 2007 Northanger Abbey, which was mostly filmed in Ireland in a rebuilt Bath. Catherine Morland and a horse with a rather modern looking bridle and eggbutt snaffle:
http://image30.webshots.com/466/7/4/97/2051704970045565162dUlPdT_fs.jpg Photo not working at all for me. You do know though that snaffle bits have been around for centuries?

[J. Turner]

Photo not working at all for me. You do know though that snaffle bits have been around for centuries?

Yes, but it just looks new and I thought the eggbut was more of 20th century thing.

Maybe try this: http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2051704970045565162dUlPdT?vhost=good-times

The whole album, not huge, is horses in film.

[J. Turner]

The third horn, or the leaping head came in in the early/mid 19th century. Side saddles first had a 2nd horn to allow ladies to hunt long before then though - I think even before the 17th century..... So long before Hugh Grant :winkgrin:

You clearly have an obsession with Hugh Grant..... You posted a photo of him again ;)


Actually Matthew Macfadyen is my guilty pleaure, but there aren't that many pictures of him on horseback. He's afraid of horses.

He's one of few:
http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2706742430045565162uQxqOS?vhost=good-times

Matthew's the one on the right looking quite dour and grumpy as Mr. Darcy.

[GB Trail Rider]

:D Sometimes you see things like modern stainless steel loose-ring snaffles or Kimberwicks on Medieval chargers. Hmmm.

Over the holidays I watched a DVD called "The Horses of Gettysburg." Aside from being an excellent documentary with actual photos of the horses, mules and vehicles used in the Civil War, I scrutinized the harness and tack closely in the re-enactment footage and thought they did a very good job of using military harness and tack. I saw nary a nylon halter and the bits looked quite authentic. The limbers and caissons that carried the guns and ammo looked very 'period' to me as well. The folks who do the Civil War re-enactments really do seem to hone in on the details. It's a good show and I recommend it for you other horse and carriage nuts out there. :D

I usually don't come over to the driving forum, but a friend of mine recently bought a Haflinger to drive and I just thought I would see what the driving forum is about and your post caught my eye.
So glad you enjoyed the "Horses of Gettysburg" DVD. My horse (and husband) are in it. My horse is the chestnut QH with a white star...his pic is the one on the chapters section of the video(think it's called that). Anyway, glad you thought we looked authentic, we try !

[RidesAHaflinger]

I thought the show was wonderful. Neat that your horse and husband were in it! Several of us Haflinger owners got involved in a discussion of the show and as a partial offshoot of that discussion we're going to hold our annnual East Coast Haflinger get-together at Gettysburg! There will be 30+ head of Haflingers camped at Artillery Ridge July 18-21 and we'll be riding and driving all weekend.

I'm not hauling my two Haflingers all the way up there from Florida but I'll be there. I'm really looking forward to touring the battlefield and soaking up the history first-hand. If you're in the area, stop by!

I usually don't come over to the driving forum, but a friend of mine recently bought a Haflinger to drive and I just thought I would see what the driving forum is about and your post caught my eye.
So glad you enjoyed the "Horses of Gettysburg" DVD. My horse (and husband) are in it. My horse is the chestnut QH with a white star...his pic is the one on the chapters section of the video(think it's called that). Anyway, glad you thought we looked authentic, we try !

[lisae]

Not hauling my horse from NY, but I will be at the Haflinger gathering too! :)

I will throw in my two cents on horses in movies, my vote goes to the 2003 or 2004 movie King Arthur starring Clive Owen. Supposedly the actors did a lot of their own ridden work (at least the close ups seemed to be them ;))

Not sure whether Clive's chiseled looks or the various horses were the better eye candy! :winkgrin: