Alternative Products to Legend and Adequan

[scotfree]

A friend of mine has begun using (with her vet's advice) 2 products that I never heard of before, as alternatives to Adequan and Legend. They are much less expensive and as a result she uses them more often than she could otherwise do. I have not been able to find out much about them with google searches and wondered if anyone else is using them and what people think.

The Adequan-like product is called Ichon and the Legend-like product is Hytryl. The company the produces them is called Kinetic Technologies. The cost is a fraction of what I pay for Adequan and Legend.

Oh, and her vet also told her to give her Adequan IV instead of IM. What's up with that?

[deltawave]

Adequan IV? That is SCARY.

Hytryl appears to be a version of hyaluronate that is similar to a product made for humans (the name escapes me) for wound care and burns, etc. At $29 a dose, it's exactly $8 less than Adequan. I'd pay the 8 bucks.

Any company whose tagline is "brand new thinking for life" immediately raises my credibility radar. :)

For the small difference in price, I'd stick with tried and true, personally.

[Hampton Bay]

At $29 a dose, it's exactly $8 less than Adequan.

Where do you find Adequan for $37 a dose??

[Renn/aissance]

My vet recommended Ichon to me as well. She uses it on her own horses, and says that while she doesn't feel that it is quite as effective as Adequan, she thinks that the difference in price far makes up for the slight different in effectiveness.

It certainly does work; I can feel a difference within 48 hours.

[Simkie]

Where do you find Adequan for $37 a dose??

Mountain Vet. 970.484.2200

[RAyers]

I get my Adequan for $37 ($36.50 to be exact) from my vet.

Hytryl would be akin to Chondroprotec. Both are light weight molecules that do not have the same structure as the proven high molecular weight HA such as in Legend, Synvisc, Hylartin, Hylagan, etc.

I know I discsussed Ichon here before. Do a search and see.

As for Adequan IV, I suspect that is a compete waste and is probably cleared easily.

Reed

[Petstorejunkie]

Kinetic Tech is HA happy. They actually sell their HA to other manufactures to put in their joint supps. Kinetic even has hoof glop and eye drops with HA... a little silly if you ask me...
They are also the makers of Conquer....

[deltawave]

C'mon, PSJ... it's brand new thinking for life!! Drink the Kool-Aid! :D

[RioTex]

Oh, and her vet also told her to give her Adequan IV instead of IM.
My vet too.

[scotfree]

I know I discsussed Ichon here before. Do a search and see.

Reed

I did a search and nothing came up. Is it possible the topic was too old? Is there an advanced search feature for older threads?

[sabby]

My lameness vet said that it just gets there faster (IV) and the loading dose is a bunch of do-do. Once monthly is just fine.

[Pippin]

My lameness vet said that it just gets there faster (IV) and the loading dose is a bunch of do-do. Once monthly is just fine.

the loading dose is a bunch of doo-doo? now i find that strange... it seems with most anything that one must load before any benefits... then the monthly or every 3 weeks keeps the levels up to par.. ???

P~

[jacksorbetter]

I'm glad this thread has come up. I've had Adequan on my mind all day... I am on a tight budget this year and one of the things I've been thinking about giving up is the monthly Adequan shot. I have been using it for maintenance only (no lameness issues... knock on wood). My vet thinks the entire Adequan thing is a bunch of bull****, but my trainer uses it on all her horses. I know that the general consensus in the horse world is that the stuff really works... but is there any chance that my vet is right, and we are all just blinded by the thought that we are doing something really great for our horses? Thoughts, opinions, experiences please!!

:confused:

[deltawave]

Loading doses are nice if you want to see an immediate effect, but for long-term use and results they are rarely a big deal.

[Appassionato]

My lameness vet said that it just gets there faster (IV) and the loading dose is a bunch of do-do. Once monthly is just fine.

I had a vet tell me that my horse foundering was a bunch of doo-doo. He later turned and blamed me (along with the farrier) that my horse sunk. How 'bout them apples? BTW, the vet oprdered TWO sizes too small a shoe to fix my horse, the farrier ordered THREE sizes too small. "Dumb and Dumber" I call 'em...but my horse still lost and that sucks. He's alive, but it's been pure Hell to get him comfortable!

I'm glad this thread has come up. I've had Adequan on my mind all day... I am on a tight budget this year and one of the things I've been thinking about giving up is the monthly Adequan shot. I have been using it for maintenance only (no lameness issues... knock on wood). My vet thinks the entire Adequan thing is a bunch of bull****, but my trainer uses it on all her horses. I know that the general consensus in the horse world is that the stuff really works... but is there any chance that my vet is right, and we are all just blinded by the thought that we are doing something really great for our horses? Thoughts, opinions, experiences please!!

:confused:

It's completely understandable to question the use of such a product on a horse that has no hoof problems nor conformational problems (sometimes hand in hand). Guess which I see more of? Despite conformation? Keep the Adequan.

[crackerjack]

My vet advocates the use of Adequan...and not just to line his pocket either;)!! I do wish I could get it from Mountain Vet though - my wallet would appreciate it! An alternative I looked into was Hydrolonix (Sp???). It's available from Running Fox here in Ontario but not sure where else. They could get that info for anyone. People who use it say it's better than Adaquan and apparently many higher level jumpers use it. For me it wasn't worth getting because I use Adaquan for maintenance only as my horse has no issues (knock on wood) and it would cost slightly more due to the shipping required. They do a human version as well and a friend's dad swears by it for his back.

[Petstorejunkie]

My vet thinks the entire Adequan thing is a bunch of bull****, but my trainer uses it on all her horses. I know that the general consensus in the horse world is that the stuff really works... but is there any chance that my vet is right, and we are all just blinded by the thought that we are doing something really great for our horses? Thoughts, opinions, experiences please!!

:confused:

no disrespect, but your vet needs to get off their DVM butt and read the peer reviewed articles on adequan that have been around for years.
http://www.luitpoldanimalhealth.com/Adequan_vet_clinicalstudies.htm yeah yeah it's the luitipold website, but it's the easiest way to get all the articles in one link.:rolleyes:

oh and little tidbit for the argument of IM vs IA adequan. there are 2 different kinds of adequan. one that's im and one that's ia...
here are the product labels descriptions (links werent working so well and i didnt copy the whole label to save space):
ADEQUAN® I.M.


Luitpold

Polysulfated Glycosaminoglycan (PSGAG)

Solution 500 mg/5 mL

For Intramuscular Use In Horses

CAUTION: Federal law restricts this drug to use by or on the order of a licensed veterinarian.

DESCRIPTION

Each 5 milliliters of Adequan® i.m. contains 500 mg of Polysulfated Glycosaminoglycan and Water for Injection q.s. Sodium Hydroxide and/or Hydrochloric Acid added when necessary to adjust pH. Sodium Chloride may be added to adjust tonicity.

...blah blah blah...

INDICATIONS

Adequan® i.m. is recommended for the intramuscular treatment of non-infectious degenerative and/or traumatic joint dysfunction and associated lameness of the carpal and hock joints in horses.

CONTRAINDICATIONS

There are no known contraindications to the use of intramuscular Polysulfated Glycosaminoglycan.

WARNING

Not for use in horses intended for food.

DOSAGE AND ADMINISTRATION

The recommended dose of Adequan® i.m. in horses is 500 mg every 4 days for 28 days intramuscularly. The injection site must be thoroughly cleansed prior to injection. Do not mix Adequan® i.m. with other drugs or solvents

and drumroll...

ADEQUAN® I.A.


Luitpold

(Polysulfated Glycosaminoglycan) (PSGAG)

Solution 250 mg/mL

For intra-articular (I.A.) use in horses

DESCRIPTION

Each milliliter of Adequan contains 250 mg of Polysulfated Glycosaminoglycan and Water for Injection q.s. Sodium Hydroxide and/or Hydrochloric Acid added when necessary to adjust pH.

PHARMACOLOGY

Polysulfated Glycosaminoglycan is chemically similar to the mucopolysaccharides of cartilaginous tissue. It is a potent proteolytic enzyme inhibitor and diminishes or reverses the processes which result in the loss of cartilaginous mucopolysaccharides. PSGAG improves joint function by stimulating synovial membrane activity, reducing synovial protein levels and increasing synovial fluid viscosity in traumatized equine carpal joints.

TOXICITY

Toxicity studies were conducted in horses. Doses as high as 1,250 mg were administered intracarpally to 6 horses once a week for 18 weeks. This dosage is 5 times the recommended dosage and 3.6 times the recommended therapeutic regimen. Clinical observations revealed soreness and swelling in 1.8% (2 of 109 animals) at the injection site which was mild, self limiting and lasted less than one day. There was a dose related evaluation on partial thromboplastin time, creatinine and glucose. No animal had any clinical illness during the trial and none showed clinical evidence of toxicity except transient swelling at the injection site, possibly due to mechanical invasion of the joint.

INDICATIONS

Adequan is recommended for the treatment of non-infectious degenerative and/or traumatic joint dysfunction and associated lameness of the carpal joint in horses.

DOSAGE AND ADMINISTRATION

The recommended dose of Adequan in horses is 250 mg (1 vial) once a week for five weeks, intra-articularly. The joint area must be shaved, cleansed and sterilized as in a surgical procedure prior to injection. Do not mix Adequan with other drugs or solvents.

ADVERSE REACTIONS

Two major categories of adverse reactions have been reported following the intra-articular administration of Adequan:

1. Inflammatory joint reactions consisting of joint pain, effusion, and swelling with associated lameness.

2. Septic arthritis.

Less frequently, nonseptic arthritis, hemathrosis, and cellulitis at the injection site and surrounding tissues have been reported.

[Appassionato]

My vet advocates the use of Adequan...and not just to line his pocket either;)!! I do wish I could get it from Mountain Vet though - my wallet would appreciate it! An alternative I looked into was Hydrolonix (Sp???). It's available from Running Fox here in Ontario but not sure where else. They could get that info for anyone. People who use it say it's better than Adaquan and apparently many higher level jumpers use it. For me it wasn't worth getting because I use Adaquan for maintenance only as my horse has no issues (knock on wood) and it would cost slightly more due to the shipping required. They do a human version as well and a friend's dad swears by it for his back.

Well, I go ahead and line my vet's pocket with a $25 fee for faxing a prescription in, which I really don't mind. He IS the one who is in charge my guy's health, and whether or not I'm a litigious person, I don't want him under onslaught. FWIW he sees my horse on Sundays and doesn't charge an emergency fee, so once a year I can have the $25 charge for Adequan and I'll take it with a smile!

I too had a horse that was a winner over fences in jumpers...undefeated even. He foundered. Not trying to be snitty, quite the opposite...I'd just Adequan the horse in retrospect.

[Peggy]

I'm no MD or DVM, but intra-articular = into the joint.

And, on the original topic, this Evil Chem Prof gives her horse real Adequan and real Legend, purchased from Mountain vet.

[Appassionato]

I'm no MD or DVM, but intra-articular = into the joint.

And, on the original topic, this Evil Chem Prof gives her horse real Adequan and real Legend, purchased from Mountain vet.

Curious, how much is Legend via MV?

[ljc]

I gave my (now-retired) hunter monthly shots of legend for all the years he showed and for the first few months we transitioned into pleasure riding. About a year before I retired him from jumping, I started him on Lubrisyn (which immediately made a difference in how he went). Anyway, we've now gone eight months without legend -- still on lubrisyn -- and I'm pretty happy with how he feels. Haven't noticed any deterioration in his movement or flexibility or soundness. Not especially cheaper than legend, however ($60/month versus $90).

[JB]

oh and little tidbit for the argument of IM vs IA adequan. there are 2 different kinds of adequan. one that's im and one that's ia...

The "argument" was IM vs IV ;)

[deltawave]

Mountain Vet's price is $37/dose. Their number is somewhere earlier on this thread, I believe. I have found it at about $39/dose by using one of those cost-comparing search engines if I'm feeling lazy and want to order on-line. :)

[crackerjack]

Well, I go ahead and line my vet's pocket with a $25 fee for faxing a prescription in, which I really don't mind. He IS the one who is in charge my guy's health, and whether or not I'm a litigious person, I don't want him under onslaught. FWIW he sees my horse on Sundays and doesn't charge an emergency fee, so once a year I can have the $25 charge for Adequan and I'll take it with a smile!

I too had a horse that was a winner over fences in jumpers...undefeated even. He foundered. Not trying to be snitty, quite the opposite...I'd just Adequan the horse in retrospect.

huh??? Maybe I totally misunderstood your reply to my post??? I'm 100% for Adequan and the only reason I can't get it from Mountain Vet is that I'm in Canada. The reason I mentioned my wallet is that it costs about $300 for four vials.... but I still do it! I think it comes to about $80 a vial. I'm paranoid about joints after my experience with my previous horse so I'm doing this all for preventative purposes...... I really haven't noticed a difference while my current horse is on it but do it just in case. Sorry if I've totally misunderstood your reply...

[Appassionato]

huh??? Maybe I totally misunderstood your reply to my post??? I'm 100% for Adequan and the only reason I can't get it from Mountain Vet is that I'm in Canada. The reason I mentioned my wallet is that it costs about $300 for four vials.... but I still do it! I think it comes to about $80 a vial. I'm paranoid about joints after my experience with my previous horse so I'm doing this all for preventative purposes...... I really haven't noticed a difference while my current horse is on it but do it just in case. Sorry if I've totally misunderstood your reply...

I was agreeing with you! Although I did NOT know you couldn't get it from MV.

[crackerjack]

Oh haha good... sorry I had just gotten out of bed..... brain not fully functioning!! I'm not sure if I can get the stuff from MV..... I'm sure customs and the tax people would have a ball with it...sigh sigh sigh....

[hollyhorse2000]

My vet also recommends Adequan IV. I give either Adequan or Legend every three weeks. Horse is 15 and I want her sound and happy and doing her job for a long time.

[Ibex]

Not to derail, but as a total newbie who may have to get either Adequan or Legend for the first time, can someone please explain the difference...?? I know they're different drugs, but when given IM, is one better or the other?

We'll be going with the vet recommendation, but I'm trying to gather some background information in case it comes down to my choice. I'm all for saving the cost difference between the two, but not if Legend is the better choice...

[GollyGee]

There was a flap a few years back when some people tried to use Chondria Care which is the made for wound lavauge (?) form of Polyg.....s
My vet even feel into the trap because it was less expensive and you got 2 doses per bottle. The downside was site injection reaction due to the moleculare structure.
Adequain is a Patent protected name and Ichon seems to have side stepped the issue by manufacturing to medical grade injection quality by saying its for "wound Lavauge" there for avoiding any infringements.
"TO QUOTE" "IChON is a PS-GAG, which is labeled and marketed as a medical device for wound dressing. It is a more cost-competitive and chemically ideal alternative to similar products"
But as to the value of use, I buy OTTB's and if there is one horse who's joints need the care after pounding around a race track 7 days a week its them, and the proof is in the pudding so to speak because when I sell one and they get a pre purchase vetting you can see how well the joints have responded, re-modeled and the change all for the better in gait and in releif from muscle sorness.:)

[jackleg]

be very careful when injecting adaquan i.a. into joints.... regardless of sterile preparation, bacteria love to thrive in adaquan... just a few bacteria cells, when cultured in adaquan, will result in a colony quickly....

[Simkie]

Not to derail, but as a total newbie who may have to get either Adequan or Legend for the first time, can someone please explain the difference...?? I know they're different drugs, but when given IM, is one better or the other?

We'll be going with the vet recommendation, but I'm trying to gather some background information in case it comes down to my choice. I'm all for saving the cost difference between the two, but not if Legend is the better choice...

Quick and dirty: Adequan is useful for chronic conditions, Legend is useful for acute conditions.

Adequan goes IM and Legend goes IV. Legend is slightly more expensive than Adequan.

[Simkie]

Mountain Vet's price is $37/dose. Their number is somewhere earlier on this thread, I believe. I have found it at about $39/dose by using one of those cost-comparing search engines if I'm feeling lazy and want to order on-line. :)

Mountain Vet can no longer sell RX items to customers outside of Colorado and Wyoming.

(Man, this is an OLD thread brought back to life!!)