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magnum
Dec. 28, 2007, 05:42 PM
Is anyone familiar with this rider?

Have you seen him teach? If so, what do you think?

Feel free to PM me.


Magnum

egontoast
Dec. 28, 2007, 06:02 PM
Send a PM to Sabine on this board. She is a friend of his and regularly takes clinics with him.

fiona
Dec. 28, 2007, 06:05 PM
He's good, don't miss the opportunity if you have it. Go.

IfWishesWereHorses
Dec. 28, 2007, 09:00 PM
He is gods gift to horses and a nice person to boot.

Phenominal rider and trainer, and if you have the opportunity to spend even a second in his world - DO IT!!!!!

Honestly, he is incredible!!!!!

STF
Dec. 28, 2007, 09:12 PM
Ahhh CLC....... Cute Little Carl.....

Yes, Im one of his bigget fans! :lol:

But seriously, I had read his books and bought his CD. I love his theory and this way of training. Id love to work with him. Sabine has offered me to come in her direction many times when he is here, but I cant get away from the farm or kids right now to go that far.

Owell, CLC will have to wait.

snoopy
Dec. 28, 2007, 09:19 PM
Ah, our Carl-ina!! He is an incredibly nice guy...great sense of humour...and a GREAT trainer. You would be foolish to pass up the opportunity to ride with him...if you cannot go and audit.

Kyrie
Dec. 28, 2007, 10:10 PM
I worship Carl - he is a god of all that is dressage! Genuinely nice guy and talented rider - what more could you ask for? I've seen him compete, as well as attend a clinic of his *sigh* :D

Sabine
Dec. 28, 2007, 10:32 PM
I worship Carl - he is a god of all that is dressage! Genuinely nice guy and talented rider - what more could you ask for? I've seen him compete, as well as attend a clinic of his *sigh* :D

Oh- so you were at his clinic last October 2006? yeah- he came from there to us...

I don't call him Carlina- and yes I know him well. He doesn't deserve that name...
Magnum- what's your question? Are you planning on going to the UK to ride with him? Are you having him come to the US?

I think asking opinions about a clinician is very so,so. Many times you can easily and quickly find out that a clincian in consideration might not be good for your program, othertimes it just a he said, she said.

Carl is different. I have been spoiled all my life with very good german teaching, SRS teaching and exposure/participation in the german dressage life.
When I met Carl- I learned a different dimension. Dressage has to be joyous and fun and forward and daring. These concepts were never so clearly revealed to me until then.

As many of you know- Carl has several books out that are great to read and easy to understand. He also has a couple of really great teaching videos that can be ordered through Amazon- they were published in the UK and are mainly taking from 'Masterclass' style evenings that are very popular in the UK. He shows how he has taken relatively regular horses and trained them to be dressage horses.

What makes him different? He has a great education, intelligence and whit- he speaks very perfect British - which is easy to understand and fun and memorable to listen to. He is kind and not demeaning ever- but not a softie or pushover ever...he is a lot of fun to be around and has amazing skills of riding well and skilled.

I wish we could adopt him permanently in the US- as I feel that he would have no shortage of generous sponsors and could really showcase good, tactful riding.

pophorse
Dec. 29, 2007, 06:40 AM
Carl is one of the world's best riders and trainers, period.
His idea of dressage is effective, practical and very understandable.
All of Sabine's comments are right on the mark. He is a super nice guy on top of it!
If you have the chance to work with him take it without delay!
It would be great if he ever moved to the US, but he's got his own place in the UK and a healthy pool of talented and wealthy clients that adore him!

freestyle2music
Dec. 29, 2007, 07:50 AM
Oh- so you were at his clinic last October 2006? yeah- he came from there to us...

I don't call him Carlina- and yes I know him well. He doesn't deserve that name...
Magnum- what's your question? Are you planning on going to the UK to ride with him? Are you having him come to the US?

I think asking opinions about a clinician is very so,so. Many times you can easily and quickly find out that a clincian in consideration might not be good for your program, othertimes it just a he said, she said.

Carl is different. I have been spoiled all my life with very good german teaching, SRS teaching and exposure/participation in the german dressage life.
When I met Carl- I learned a different dimension. Dressage has to be joyous and fun and forward and daring. These concepts were never so clearly revealed to me until then.

As many of you know- Carl has several books out that are great to read and easy to understand. He also has a couple of really great teaching videos that can be ordered through Amazon- they were published in the UK and are mainly taking from 'Masterclass' style evenings that are very popular in the UK. He shows how he has taken relatively regular horses and trained them to be dressage horses.

What makes him different? He has a great education, intelligence and whit- he speaks very perfect British - which is easy to understand and fun and memorable to listen to. He is kind and not demeaning ever- but not a softie or pushover ever...he is a lot of fun to be around and has amazing skills of riding well and skilled.

I wish we could adopt him permanently in the US- as I feel that he would have no shortage of generous sponsors and could really showcase good, tactful riding.

This says it all, and I really think that Carl would be the best possible choice for the new national coach of the USA. WHY.. Carl speaks very good English:D, he is the bridge between classical and modern dressage, a gentleman "pür sang", and he has charisma.

canyonoak
Dec. 29, 2007, 08:41 AM
Not that it is ever going to happen, but I second and third the idea of Carl being next coach!

wait...I'm dreaming for a moment....

ahhhhhhhhhh!

OK, back to reality.

(and this is certainly not a dis at KB...but no one lasts forever, and no one enjoys the job forever. Just taking a moment to step into the future and dream.)

magnum
Dec. 29, 2007, 11:31 AM
We have a group in the midwest who may be interested in bringing him over for clinics. I also go to England periodicially.

I looked up a YOU TUBE video of him on Escaparado before the horse was sold. HOT HORSE and he partners well with the horse. There was some tension in the video, but Carl had stated in another article how much this horse HATES musicals, so that explains that. .... plus a lot to be said for how WELL he handled the tension. You could see that the horse wanted to explode but INSTEAD CHOSE to work with Carl.

I read the New Zealand article on him where he talked about that horse extensively. It is also good that he likes to work with the HOT horses, because that is what I have. He also looks like a light rider and very tactful.

(On a side note, he also got points with me be stating that his best choice to ride is a "Ferro geldings because of their hind leg action and sensitivity." ... Well ... I have one now and it would be great to find someone who knows this line that well.

Thanks for all the comments.

Magnum

freestyle2music
Dec. 29, 2007, 01:47 PM
We have a group in the midwest who may be interested in bringing him over for clinics. I also go to England periodicially.

I looked up a YOU TUBE video of him on Escaparado before the horse was sold. HOT HORSE and he partners well with the horse. There was some tension in the video, but Carl had stated in another article how much this horse HATES musicals, so that explains that. .... plus a lot to be said for how WELL he handled the tension. You could see that the horse wanted to explode but INSTEAD CHOSE to work with Carl.

I read the New Zealand article on him where he talked about that horse extensively. It is also good that he likes to work with the HOT horses, because that is what I have. He also looks like a light rider and very tactful.

(On a side note, he also got points with me be stating that his best choice to ride is a "Ferro geldings because of their hind leg action and sensitivity." ... Well ... I have one now and it would be great to find someone who knows this line that well.

Thanks for all the comments.

Magnum

Correction please :


Carl, like many other topriders hate the freestyle to music, because the FTM doesn't allow time for correction.

Comprende :D

PaddyUK
Dec. 29, 2007, 03:00 PM
Carl Hester is a fabulous rider - you could put him on a skateboard with a tail and he would get it to GP.

Seen some of his masterclasses and would love to have a lesson with him, as possibly would every dressage rider in the UK!

His sense of humour is very dry and his clincs a pleasure to watch.

If you have the chance of a lesson with him or Spencer then grab it with both hands.

Paddy

goeslikestink
Dec. 29, 2007, 03:54 PM
carl is excellent trianer
and he does the kick and click method if the horse is lazy or to sharp as i do
so i know exactly how to ride with him if i ever got the chance
he often writes for your horse or horse and rider uk mags

Kyrie
Dec. 29, 2007, 10:15 PM
Oh- so you were at his clinic last October 2006? yeah- he came from there to us...


Yup, and just about froze to death in the process :cry: Very unpleasant conditions. However, Carl is worth it (drove 7hrs each way to see him!!).

I like the fact that he actually likes his horses and lets them be horses *thumbsup*

Regal Grace
Dec. 30, 2007, 12:22 AM
DOWN TO EARTH
Leading British dressage rider, trainer and author Carl Hester made quite an impression on his recent New Zealand visit, as Helen Firth reports. ......
http://www.horse-pony.co.nz/archive/2006/dec06-1.html

Sabine
Dec. 30, 2007, 12:33 AM
Yup, and just about froze to death in the process :cry: Very unpleasant conditions. However, Carl is worth it (drove 7hrs each way to see him!!).

I like the fact that he actually likes his horses and lets them be horses *thumbsup*

I know- it must have been an exhausting trip for him- he was just 'hangin loose' here- in a circle of friends from the last clinic- but his training remained fabbo- we all were energized and upbeat and determined to make a go off it afterwards....until the next time...;)

fiona
Dec. 30, 2007, 04:55 AM
I like the fact that he actually likes his horses and lets them be horses *thumbsup*
Yeah right. Because everyone else hates them and makes them pretend to be hamsters.

IfWishesWereHorses
Dec. 30, 2007, 08:01 PM
Ive seen so many trainers (not just dressage, I mean all trainers) and there are two who stick in my head as being 100% horse lovers in every sense of the word. One is Carl, the other is Vaughn jefferis ... who incidentally is a close friend of Carls.

I think also because Carl makes the whole learning a fun thing, and has a sense of humour, the whole atmosphere in one of his clinics seems to be just ...welll...different?

He is definitely in a class of his own from what I have seen.

I was a show groom in the UK at the first Dressage at Hickstead in the early 90's and stayed with his friends/owners. I had never heard of him before and thought he was hot hot hot...lol..then found out he played for the other team and I remember being absolutely gutted haha.

Kyrie
Dec. 31, 2007, 12:59 AM
Yeah right. Because everyone else hates them and makes them pretend to be hamsters.

Pah, there are definitely people on the circuit (in every country and every discipline) who make you wonder whether they actually (a) like their horse/s and (b) enjoy riding/competing...

magnum
Jan. 1, 2008, 02:39 PM
Correction please :


Carl, like many other topriders hate the freestyle to music, because the FTM doesn't allow time for correction.

Comprende :D

Oh good grief. ... there is only ONE post here that states that CARL HATES FREESTYLES - the one quoted above ....

Read my post - REALLY ... read any post ... very thoroughly (listening to the poster and not your own thoughts) -- before clinking out a reply.

Your statement about Carl not liking the freestyle is in conflict both with my post as well as with the article I read that stated that Carl had * specified that Escaparando HATES the music.* Carl's opinion of the freestyle was never mentioned. Just that of his HORSE.

Magnum

freestyle2music
Jan. 1, 2008, 06:31 PM
Oh good grief. ... there is only ONE post here that states that CARL HATES FREESTYLES - the one quoted above ....

Read my post - REALLY ... read any post ... very thoroughly (listening to the poster and not your own thoughts) -- before clinking out a reply.

Your statement about Carl not liking the freestyle is in conflict both with my post as well as with the article I read that stated that Carl had * specified that Escaparando HATES the music.* Carl's opinion of the freestyle was never mentioned. Just that of his HORSE.

Magnum


Thank you Magnum glad to hear this from you, you must be an insider ?!

Theo

canyonoak
Jan. 1, 2008, 07:45 PM
from the New Zealand article that the NZ poster gave a link to on page 1 of this thread:


<<Interestingly, Carl describes himself as a GP Special specialist, and isn’t such a big fan of the kür. It’s not a level playing field – he simply doesn’t have the 40,000 euros he reckons he’d need to invest in a routine to measure up to Anky and the rest.
“Don’t get me wrong, I love watching them, but you need your own orchestra to match that lot. And Escapado was definitely a horse for the Special, because every time they turned the music up he blew. I got to the point where I was terrified of the music. Unfortunately, Pro Set is the same – I don’t know whether it’s me or them!”>>

Sabine
Jan. 1, 2008, 08:52 PM
BUT- I recently talked to Carl and he WILL get a new freestyle- and Donald is not as psycho about it as Peanuts was....so let's hope for some action in 2008!~

magnum
Jan. 2, 2008, 02:30 PM
from the New Zealand article that the NZ poster gave a link to on page 1 of this thread:


<<I
“Escapado .... every time they turned the music up he blew. ....Unfortunately, Pro Set is the same – I don’t know whether it’s me or them!”>>

Thanks, Canyon. That is the article to which I was referring where he said the horse did not like the MUSIC.

Hey, Sabine -- Is "Donald" a.k.a. PRO SET?"

Magnum

freestyle2music
Jan. 2, 2008, 02:45 PM
Thanks, Canyon. That is the article to which I was referring where he said the horse did not like the MUSIC.

Hey, Sabine -- Is "Donald" a.k.a. PRO SET?"

Magnum

Some of the topriders can't stay away from being a trainer/instructor at competitions. And Carl certainly is one of them. However the music (harnas) don't give these riders/trainers much room to fiddle around. Do I have to explain this (?).

For example: for Coby and Ferro I often changed the music one hour before the competition started. As stated many times before : indoor arena, outdoor arena, breeding season, or a nice mare as a neighbour ;):yes:, are all part of the game.

Coreene
Jan. 2, 2008, 02:56 PM
I loved Carl's clinic that Sabine organized, it was great and he is a doll. So is Spencer.

Sabine
Jan. 2, 2008, 04:06 PM
Hey, Sabine -- Is "Donald" a.k.a. PRO SET?"

Magnum

Donald is the barn name for Dolendo. Dolendo is the most promising horse he currently has at Grand Prix. Carl co-owns it with one of his friends. The horse was with Carl since he was 5 or 6 and was ridden by Spencer under Carl's training. After Carl and Spenny parted ways- Carl took over the ride.

magnum
Jan. 2, 2008, 04:08 PM
Sabine and Coreene --

Are you guys in CA .... and is Carl coming there?

Theo/ Freestyle -- you get the award for rude and inappropriate posts - as well as those not relating to the O.P. - in effort to promote yourself.

Honestly, Theo .... please don't ever change .... your posts are far more entertaining than satellite TV, and FREE (unlike satellite which offers monthly invoices) !!
:lol: .... Thank you!

Magnum

Sabine
Jan. 2, 2008, 04:11 PM
Magnum- yes we are in California- and yes Carl does come here at times when the stars are aligned.
I am not sure about your comments in regards to Theo. Theo knows Carl well- he actually knows EXACTLY how Carl feels about freestyles. (hint, hint!)

Since you like to find out information- don't kill the messenger in the process....;)

freestyle2music
Jan. 2, 2008, 04:45 PM
Sabine and Coreene --

Are you guys in CA .... and is Carl coming there?

Theo/ Freestyle -- you get the award for rude and inappropriate posts - as well as those not relating to the O.P. - in effort to promote yourself.

Honestly, Theo .... please don't ever change .... your posts are far more entertaining than satellite TV, and FREE (unlike satellite which offers monthly invoices) !!
:lol: .... Thank you!

Magnum

Magnum, I made the music for Carl's horses already from day one, and I know how he thinks about riding to music. Did you ever get the chance to see his shows ? . He is riding the stars from the sky with his horse and..... music.
Maybe you have understand me wrong, but many riders don't like to ride a freestyle to music. Let me explain : (an example) After the extensions they want the horse back on their hindlegs again for the pirouette or the flying changes or or or. To stay in sync with the music they can't say "OK I need two more steps at the canter, to get him 100% the way I want" for the next movement, because they get out of sync (just like Anky and Salinero at London). Carl is a perfectionist "pür sang", but at these kind of moments he have to take a very difficult descission between the technical part or the artistical part. Meaning... or the technical score will drop down, or the artistical score will drop down.

Added and OFF TOPIC. Watching the videos of the Search for the Next Equestrian Star I really was amazed that RD let his students (warm-up for competition) first ride the flying changes and afterwards the pirouettes. WRONG, however CanyonOak explained to me that these videos where cut and sliced together afterwards.

Theo

magnum
Jan. 2, 2008, 05:33 PM
Thanks to ALL who gave actually HELPFUL advice about Carls' teachings, and who sincerely answered the QUESTION posed.

Your information about Carl's RIDING AND TEACHING will help in our group's decision-making process about the possibility of having him in for clinics.

Theo -- if you are so bent on confrontation ... and also on bending non freestyle related threads ... you might want to start your own FREESTYLE thread. That was not the original question here (Oh, and BTW, hurry now before you get banned for the umpteenth time again :lol: ).

Happy riding, all.

Magnum

Sabine
Jan. 3, 2008, 12:37 AM
[B]
Theo -- if you are so bent on confrontation ... and also on bending non freestyle related threads ... you might want to start your own FREESTYLE thread. That was not the original question here (Oh, and BTW, hurry now before you get banned for the umpteenth time again :lol: ).

Magnum

I hate say this, but these comments are unnecessary and quite unfriendly. I feel this is not necessary to promote a helpful and informative environment around here. Although I agree the poster did not PRECISELY answer your question- the information provided was very insightful in regards to explaining more about the personality and attitude of Carl Hester- whom you inquired about. I personally learned something new about freestyle and riding upper level dressage horses...and frankly that's why I kept on reading this thread. Sometimes you can not control all the answers you get- but you can also get a lot more information that way...which in the end can prove to be very useful....just my 5 cents....

egontoast
Jan. 3, 2008, 06:17 AM
Magnum , it's not Theo who is rude and confrontational on this thread. Here's when it went off the rails


Oh good grief. ... there is only ONE post here that states that CARL HATES FREESTYLES - the one quoted above ....

Read my post - REALLY ... read any post ... very thoroughly (listening to the poster and not your own thoughts) -- before clinking out a reply.

Your statement about Carl not liking the freestyle is in conflict both with my post as well as with the article I read that stated that Carl had * specified that Escaparando HATES the music.* Carl's opinion of the freestyle was never mentioned. Just that of his HORSE.



He was speaking from personal experience, not trying to interpret your post.

freestyle2music
Jan. 3, 2008, 07:35 AM
Didn't I start with the remark that Carl was a veryyyyyy nice and skilled person and rider. And didn't I mention that Carl should be your next American Coach !. And didn't Carl tell himself that his horses are scared riding to music and didn't he tell also that he still has to figure out if it was him or the horses having this problem. Believe me that there are many riders (and horses) out there who prefer the GP-Special above the FTM.

STF
Jan. 3, 2008, 08:34 AM
Jeeeeezeeeee people! Give it a rest! Good Gawd!

magnum
Jan. 3, 2008, 05:41 PM
Sabine
Join Date: Aug. 7, 2005
Location: Southern California/Muenchen
Posts: 2,250
Wink
Personally- I appreciate Theo's level of information and the links and videos he puts up on this board...it seems to give many of us the opportunity to look beyond our own famed stable walls- which is actually in my mind a good thing!
Last edited by Moderator 2 : Dec. 25, 2007 at 04:12 PM.

Don't worry, STF.

I've already printed off this thread to take to our next meeting.

I have all the info. on Carl that I need.

If this is the kind of gangs he attracts (see above), it isn't in sync with the type of participants we personally prefer in our clinics.

It may work for some and that's great .... but not for us.

I look forward to further exploring the other extremely talented candidates as we develop our next clinic series! Good luck to all the others with your riding!

Magnum

DressageGeek "Ribbon Ho"
Jan. 3, 2008, 08:06 PM
Magnum - WHERE in the midwest? If at all possible, I would love to even audit.

magnum
Jan. 3, 2008, 10:20 PM
You have a PM.

Magnum

Sabine
Jan. 4, 2008, 12:26 AM
Sabine
Join Date: Aug. 7, 2005
Location: Southern California/Muenchen
Posts: 2,250
Wink
Personally- I appreciate Theo's level of information and the links and videos he puts up on this board...it seems to give many of us the opportunity to look beyond our own famed stable walls- which is actually in my mind a good thing!
Last edited by Moderator 2 : Dec. 25, 2007 at 04:12 PM.

Don't worry, STF.

I've already printed off this thread to take to our next meeting.

I have all the info. on Carl that I need.

If this is the kind of gangs he attracts (see above), it isn't in sync with the type of participants we personally prefer in our clinics.

It may work for some and that's great .... but not for us.

I look forward to further exploring the other extremely talented candidates as we develop our next clinic series! Good luck to all the others with your riding!

Magnum

Wow- good luck to you- you will have a lot to learn!

magnum
Jan. 4, 2008, 10:22 AM
True.

And, you as well, Sabine.

Magnum

oldschool
Jan. 6, 2008, 02:27 AM
Carl is the best but i think if anyone drags him to one more Bob Dylan concert next time he's here we just might lose him forever.

Sabine
Jan. 6, 2008, 02:41 AM
Carl is the best but i think if anyone drags him to one more Bob Dylan concert next time he's here we just might lose him forever.

Oh- I was sooo waiting foir that...but it was all made up in going to 'In and Out' (the best and only hamburger joint in SoCal) in a Limo and hang out with a gang of totally committed groupies...!!

and- it was sadly not the best Dylan concert...that's the deal with Dylan and with dressage- you can never predict how good they're gonna be...!!!LOL!

egontoast
Jan. 6, 2008, 10:07 AM
I know I should not respond to this but have to say I have never seen one negative thing written about Carl Hester and his training/clinics. All reports are glowing. This thread is no different, other than weirdness and childish personal differences between posters which have nothing to do with CH.

Magnum, I hope you print off the whole thread, including your posts, for your committee so they can see for themselves the source of the weirdness.

I don't think it will matter much to CH as he is in great demand for clinics world wide.

snoopy
Jan. 6, 2008, 10:21 AM
magnum..trying to send you a PM but you have maxed out your storage.

fiona
Jan. 8, 2008, 09:40 AM
Your information about Carl's RIDING AND TEACHING will help in our group's decision-making process about the possibility of having him in for clinics.



If this is the kind of gangs he attracts (see above), it isn't in sync with the type of participants we personally prefer in our clinics.

It may work for some and that's great .... but not for us.

I look forward to further exploring the other extremely talented candidates as we develop our next clinic series! Good luck to all the others with your riding!


I don't for one minute get what you are all fighting over but i am sure it has absolutely nothing to do with Carl. He's eloquent, erudite, self deprecating, charming and a very experienced talented rider. If you have the chance to ride with him frankly, you'd be crazy not to take it. It seems rather harsh and somewhat short sighted to overlook his abilities because of some miscommunication on a bulletin board he's probably never even heard of and has no connection to.

Good luck with your clinic series.

Janeway
Jan. 9, 2008, 03:17 PM
Does Carl Hester have a website? I tried to google for one, but no luck.

I have always admired him (I had a subscription to Horse & Hound for many years) and very briefly met him at a show in the UK back in the 90's - he was super nice and super cute ;) Loved listening to him speak and watching him ride.

freestyle2music
Feb. 18, 2008, 11:35 AM
Maybe someone here got a chance to talk to Carl, because he is in Florida at this moment, and will fly back on tuesday.

slc2
Feb. 18, 2008, 11:55 AM
There is no help at all, none what so ever, for the American dressage community if anyone in it can find some reason that Carl Hester is not a suitable clinician or that he 'attracts the wrong kind of gang'. If we indeed think like that, we are truly doomed.:yes:

It's a damned shame, really. That area could really use a clinic with someone like Carl.

Carl has an enthusiasm and an acceptance for any level of rider, and an ability to work with an improve any type of horse. He is an excellent clinician.

His comments about freestyles, though, are right on, as far as the cost of having a freestyle done.

Theo should really run a Discount Day. Half off coupons, or buy two get one free.

Sabine
Feb. 18, 2008, 12:12 PM
Theo should really run a Discount Day. Half off coupons, or buy two get one free.

LOL- that's funny- but I think Theo is doing that already....new music is coming soon! (can't wait...)

freestyle2music
Feb. 18, 2008, 12:40 PM
LOL- that's funny- but I think Theo is doing that already....new music is coming soon! (can't wait...)

Sabine, You are very well informed <kuddos>

@ SLC2 I am still working in the low 3-zero amounts for my musicproductions,
while the rest is hitting the high 4-zero amounts. So it's SalesDay every day over here. And YES I know I am crazy ;)

magnum
Feb. 18, 2008, 02:30 PM
It's a damned shame, really. That area could really use a clinic with someone like Carl.


... Please reread ... what was said before .... we are still looking.

In fact, 3 of us just got back this morning from screening riders/ clinicians in Florida (our plane literally went from up with the sun then back down into SNOW!).

We interviewed SEVERAL VERY TALENTED people and are VERY EXCITED about our choices for clinics this year !!

Magnum

slc2
Feb. 18, 2008, 02:55 PM
if the auditors are driving you nuts magnum (or that pre clinic terror in the night that is named by 'oh my god, who's going to show up and act out during the clinic', just tie them to a fence rail out by the road, or let the wild turkeys peck them to death. where there's a will there's a way. do you still have that rottweiler?

magnum
Feb. 19, 2008, 02:52 PM
On the auditors .... it's likely to be private at this point .... Today, we reserved clinic dates as a follow up to the contacts in Wellington.

Magnum