driving and conformation changes

[myblackmorgan]

My youngish (6 y.o) Morgan has been in driving training for 4 months. I expected that his rather newly purchased dressage saddle would need adjustment after he was going under harness. I took some tracings to see exactly where the differences are, since indeed the saddle is no longer optimal.

His topline has much improved (compared to his days in ill fitting saddles) - strong and rather flat in the typical Morgan manner. Shoulders are building up; chest is widening. But he is over-developing on the right, and I wonder if placement while driving in tandem affects this? I think he is usually placed left - would that make a difference? Does anyone know if his muscles are likely to even out after driving singly for a while -this will be the primary focus from here on out.

Any other comments on how driving affected their horse's conformation?

Thanks!

[LostFarmer]

I would venture a guess that it is from more circles one direction than the other. I would also work the horse with lots of change of directions. I would also work the horse single. LF

[RidesAHaflinger]

I think you mean pair hitch (side by side) vs tandem hitch (one in front of the other). I make a point of switching my pair almost every time I drive them. I don't want them to become 'one-sided.' Considering that they have a very unforgiving pole on one side or the other, it doesn't take much to see how they could become stiff and inflexible if they're always hitched the same and I'm sure it could certainly influence muscle development.

Also as LF said, I frequently drive my horses single as well. I want them to trust and rely on me rather than their pair mate so I insist that each horse goes out alone. I also want them each to bear the responsibility of moving the load so they don't become dependent on their pair mate. My younger pony used to be quite the slacker in a pair hitch and I had to be constantly on him to keep him up in the collar and keep his traces taut. Driving him single reinforces the concept that he has a job to do and can't always hang back and let his brother do the work for him. Now going into his third year in harness, my youngster has learned to carry himself and he does a good job of keeping the slack out of the traces. I notice now that his older brother wil occasionally hang back a bit when we're out in the pair hitch. I think he's getting even with the kid for all those months that he had to drag him along. :lol:

I also ride dressage with both of my ponies (separately :winkgrin:) to help keep them supple.

But he is over-developing on the right, and I wonder if placement while driving in tandem affects this? I think he is usually placed left - would that make a difference? Does anyone know if his muscles are likely to even out after driving singly for a while -this will be the primary focus from here on out.

Any other comments on how driving affected their horse's conformation?

Thanks!

[goodhors]

We also change sides, every hitching with Pairs and in the 4. We want horse to use both sides of body equally, to have muscles developed evenly in work. They would not be as capable in performance for us, if we don't use both sides of animal while working him.

All horses have a "better" side, but horse user must work to teach horse that the "worse" side must also learn how to bend and give. Some horses are so stiff that they get worked on bad side twice as much as the good side. Bad side just has lots more to learn! Have to get the muscles built up to match the preferred side.

With a single, driver must pay attention to using both sides evenly, keep them both developed, flexible to prevent one side being more muscular. I would think a Tandem, would be pretty good in keeping both animals evenly developed. Tandem really has both animals working as a single, no pole to lean on or evener to use as an excuse for slacking.

Our Pairs may change personality too, when on their bad sides of the pole. Act stiff, not giving like they can. Work may be harder for them bending that way. Avoiding the issue does not help the horses, you need to work on thru use on the less favorite sides in carriage driving.

I know many draft style drivers, using light horses, draft sized animals, ponies, that never trade sides with their Pairs. They prefer the routine of everything being done exactly the same for each outing. Train animals on purpose with routines. In slower, hard work, this method works for them. Often times they depend greatly on routine, animals doing the job just the same way each outing. May not have a driver at times, using only voice commands for directions. Farm use is not carriage driving. I don't recommend this, but know people who do it. They may not need or want the body flexibility carriage drivers need.

It all depends on what you expect from the animals, so you have to train and build the bodies for what jobs you require.

[myblackmorgan]

Thank you for your replies - and, being a novice, yes I DID mean driving in Pairs and not Tandem. Sooooo if always driven on the same side while in a pair, is the inside or outside likely to get over-developed and/or stiff?

[goodhors]

The side of horse against the pole, gets stiff, if animals don't change sides often.

He can't stretch well with his body side against the pole, like he can with his outside (open side, trace only restriction) body.

[Thomas_1]

Thank you for your replies - and, being a novice, yes I DID mean driving in Pairs and not Tandem. Sooooo if always driven on the same side while in a pair, is the inside or outside likely to get over-developed and/or stiff? Not necessarily so. It depends how often and how you drive them and what other work you do with them.

I've some pairs that I never change round but you have to be aware that you mustn't let them develop "one sided"

I'd personally say that you need to focus on ridden and driven schooling work to ensure they're balanced and evenly muscled for driving activity

[myblackmorgan]

Hmmmm - he IS stiff to the right (does that makes sense with him also being over-developed there?)- which would be his pole side. I must mention it to the trainer, although I am sure he values familar routine over evening-out muscles, especially as my horse requires a lot of confidence building.

Since the training facility is VERY busy, it's sometimes hard for me to find a space to work him and not be in the way, but I hope to start doing more longeing with side reins. And more circling/serpentines while riding, although his canines are coming in and his whole form under saddle has kinda gone to pot at the moment!

Thanks!

[Thomas_1]

I personally wouldn't lunge with side reins EVER. And for sure I'm not convinced its going to help with this issue.

Can't you do ridden work with the horse?

[LostFarmer]

I would likely never have said this a year ago but... Start a horse single and only when they are confident and working well single pair them up.

I came from the old school of farmers working horses. Not that this is a bad thing it is just that they look at training different that most on this board. Training was that unproductive step before you could work a horse. A horse was let get to 3 or 4 then hooked next to steady Eddy and taken out to plow after a week he was broke. That worked for the used they had for the horses. My horses were started kind of that way but not entirely. The gelding was driven single a month, then as a pair 3 times with another horse then put in a team with the mare. I then drove them extensively changing sides. They became a good pair still not what they could be. A year ago I backed up and worked each single over and over. They are a much better team for it.

That said don't discount farm work as a training tool. The stopping, standing, starting a load, backing wagons, and other daily activities are good experience builders. It is just not complete without the rest of the training.

LF

[myblackmorgan]

Hi Thomas 1 and Lost Farmer,

I had a bad accident a few months back, so can't ride at the moment - but my daughter does. This is only happening a few times a month though, due to the hectic schedule at the training facility and my daughter's availablility. As for side reins - I use sliding only and adjust them in slow, thoughtful increments. All the trainers I know advocate them but only for short sessions. I thought longeing would allow me to work more on his stiff side while not losing the head set that the trainer has been working on.


I agree that farm work - and ranch work for that matter - is fabulous. Most of us just can't get our horses into that sort of setting these days. And I worry about finding a good match - I have a sensitive horse that thrives on good solid work but requires a patient and kind (yet firm) human partner. I certainly wouldn't want him "cowboyed" - that would spell disaster. But having work hauling, plowing or working cows - yes - that would be great for him! I have thought about that - just nervous about it.....

[goodhors]

I am with Thomas, we never use sidereins. We find sidereins let the horse hang on them, horse never gets the reward of good release, because they are fixed.

We long line with two lines, use the lines as our aid. You can instantly reward horse when he is correct, take hold for a few strides, release to relax him. We have found horses worked in sidereins to take much longer to work thru the giving on the bit part, self-balance learning, than horse worked only in long lines. Usually very heavy on the front end, want you to hold them up with your bit and reins when ridden. Young horses will hang on your hands as long as you wish to hold them up!

There are many ways to adjust your long lines from surcingle to bit, doubling, higher, straight, lower, to give handler help with strong puller or over light horse, upheaded or dragging his nose on the ground. Still allows handler to respond instantly to horse, give and take lines as needed. Hands are not fixed into postion, like sidereins feel to horse.

I would suggest you taking some long line lessons with a dressage trainer who does not use sidereins. Learn to handle the long lines and whip, how to ask horse for what you want, then go work on your young horse. I consider sidereins a gimmick, supposed to save time in shortcutting needed learning by horse. If horse won't go the way you want without the gimmick (sidereins, running martingale, gag reins, magic bit) then horse is not "fixed" or really trained. He is being forced into body position, not learning true self-carriage, balance. I know, because I have tried the gimmick methods myself. Horse doesn't stay "fixed" when the gimmick goes away.

You will progress faster, ending with a more correct moving, a self-carrying horse, using just long lines while working horse. No need to fix him later. I would advise ignoring where his head is carried for a long time. Ours go thru a phase of head bobbing, up, down, nose out, tucked, dragging on the ground, as they learn and develop their bodies. As you work him, build his muscles CORRECTLY, he will start getting the head correct more often. Starts with a couple strides, then longer times. With him going correctly in the long lines, correct more collected head carriage is the easiest way to move for him. Takes long time to build the muscles needed to do this kind of work, so it is easy for him. He will stay lighter in your hands, on long lines, under saddle, in the carriage, because he understands the rein requests, body carriage, CAN DO the work because his body is fit and muscled to do it. He is not faking the headset, truly is driving from behind. He easily handles self-carriage, can manage the turns, float, extend while maintaining the rythym.

How easy would you find it, to try jogging, while your hands are tied to your belt? Really affects your balance, so you stiffen and tighten other muscles to hold your self upright. Tieing his head short with sidereins, changes his balance, affects his gaits and body carriage. He will still try, but may use body parts in ways you won't like, changing other things as he progresses. We consider that a bad idea, would rather let him learn to do things right, so we train with no gimmicks.

[myblackmorgan]

I have some books on long lining - and my trainer does use it in the early stages of driving training (but he still judiciously uses sidereins as well). Something I have been interested in trying but hadn't gotten to yet. Looks like it takes a good bit of coordination and athleticism, which I hope to have back once I fully rehab from my accident.

But this gives me food for thought, and I will certainly research further the pros and cons of sliding sidereins. Could just pass on using them right now - the main thing is to get him working both sides more evenly than he is doing driving in a Pair. But that SHOULD correct itself to some degree as he does more Single work, as long as I pay attention to how much I work each side.

The previous comment about starting horses Single first, and then only later in a Pair follows the advice of a book I am currently reading. But mine was started in a Pair because, while he had a good work ethic, he lacked confidence and the trainer felt that letting him have a buddy to rely on at first would be more productive in the end. So far it seems to have worked.

[Thomas_1]

I would never start any horse in a multiple. Even when they're destined to be in a pair, tandem or team, they start as singles and learn and only when they know what they are doing do they start to learn how to go in the combination.