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Rita1
Dec. 23, 2007, 07:44 PM
I Rescued a Mare and her filly. The filly is by The Deputy (IRE), and the Mares name is Fitzs Neverbetter. The previous owner never paid the stud fee. The mare is a very elegant, almost arab profile. She is a very nice mover, very sweet. The filly is very bold, easy to handle. She has very little fear factor and is also a very nice mover. The mare stamped this filly with her elegant looks. Possible sport horse lines? Any info would be greatly appreciated.

Sing Mia Song
Dec. 24, 2007, 02:32 AM
Don't know how big the mare is, but The Deputy was tiny. He entered stud in 2001, so I don't know that there's many old enough to have really made a name for themselves as sport horses just yet. He started out in KY and his fertility numbers weren't that great--he was only settling about half his mares from decent size books.

Your mare is by Thunder Puddles, who I recall as being a nice big chestnut horse. So if the mare is bigger, she might have thrown some of that to the filly?

horsepowerco
Dec. 24, 2007, 07:02 AM
The Deputy isnt very big...hendce he has bounced around a bit as a stallion. I THINK he started his stallion career in KY and Im not sure where hes at now. I actually thought about him for one of my mares a few yrs back. I dont think he stands for very much and Im sure if you wanted to contact the farm where he stands you might be able to work something out on the unpaid season.

I think The Deputy could be a very usefull sire in a regional market. he was a nice racehorse. Paid his way and then some if I rememeber correctly.

sporthorsefilly
Dec. 26, 2007, 12:21 PM
Thank God that you rescued them. How about photos Rita1

Xctrygirl
Dec. 26, 2007, 01:42 PM
Here's the pedigree

http://www.pedigreequery.com/index.php?query_type=horse&search_bar=&h=FITZS+NEVERBETTER-THE+DEPUTY&g=5&p=0&f=1&l=

I don't know her name, but if you have one we can add it.

~Emily

monicabee
Dec. 26, 2007, 04:23 PM
The filly's dam, Fitz's Neverbetter was a NY bred - at least, her sire Thunder Puddles stood in NY and her half brother Taking The Redeye I remember as a solid runner on the NY tracks - and it looks like he's still going!

Ribboned looks to have been bred to a lot of the New York sires and produced some solid runners - even if they aren't quite stakes material they seem to be reasonably durable and athletic.

Rita1
Dec. 26, 2007, 08:07 PM
Thanks for the info, I would add some pics, dont know how to do it. I brought the filly to a American warmblood society inspection, since I dont have jockey club papers and wanted something for her. She received blue preferred on their rating scale. Her name is Dahlila. The mare fitz is very sweet, I feel bad for her because I think someone beat the crap out of her. Tapped her with the wood end of the pitchfork on accident, and she had what I would describe as a "MELTDOWN:cry. I have never seen a horse act like she did. She started to shake and almost gave out at her knees.

Xctrygirl
Dec. 26, 2007, 09:50 PM
Rita you can email me your pics and I can throw together an online album for you.

Xctrygirlewd@Hotmail.com

~Emily

Rita1
Dec. 27, 2007, 06:46 AM
thanks! I will send the "before pics", need to get some updated ones for "after" in the next day or two.

echopaw2
Jan. 26, 2008, 11:31 AM
Regarding the mare Fitzs Neverbetter
I was the one who DONATED her to CANTER so that she could get a great pet home. She has NEVER been beaten, she and her foal were very well cared for. You dont know the story of why I donated her to an organization I felt would find her a great home with lots of love, and away from the ruthless breeders. I did not want her used up, I wanted her to get placed well, otherwise, if I didnt care I would have taken her to an auction, which I have NEVER EVER done.
She was never hit with a thing when I had her, heck you bump any horse with a pitchfork and they may jump a little.
I felt she deserved better than a breeding farm, that is why you know have the honor of having her. You make it sound like you RESCUED her, well, no you didnt. I wanted someone who cared like you to take her, she is NOT an abuse case.
as for the paperwork. I paid all but one of the 2000 stud fees. When I decided I was going to donate my mares and foals, they knew I did not pay that one as I did not want the foal to go into racing, also, the breeder charged me 3000 for 27 vet bills on 4 mares, in one month, saying that he needed them palpated on a daily basis so that he didnt "use up" his stallion with so many mares booked to them. He then told me if I wanted to be a female playing with the big boys, I needed to pay like the big boys. I was so disillusioned with the racing business, I love horses they are not there to pay my utility bills and throw away, that I wanted out, and that is when canter agreed to place them in pet homes. so, sorry you dont have the 2000 breeding papers, but, then, guess you can pay for them. she was donated without, that was the agreement, and the stallion owner was aware of this, after all, he already got 7000 from me, and I had nothing.
I am sorry to rant like this, but I think you give the impression, as many also share, that just because a horse is donated, it is a RESCUE horse. That is far from true, sometimes you have a breeder with a heart who wants the best for the horse, and wants to get it out of the breeding and racing merry go round.
Unfortunately, the other two mares donated somehow are back into breeding, and I am very discouraged by that.
by the way, that is a beautiful filly you got with her, she also didnt get that way without the breeder spending some kind time with both of them.
I am sure you didnt pay even close to what the breeding fee was, so I would assume you are not disappointed by not having the paperwork on the filly.

Laurierace
Jan. 26, 2008, 12:11 PM
I used to have a problem with the word rescue in reference to my horses because you are correct, there is a certain amount of implied abuse or neglect. I eventually got over the negative connotation because my horses are excellent examples of the opposite end of the rescue spectrum and raise the overall quality of rescue horses available. My horses go to a rescue when they are done racing, which technically makes them rescue horses. I do this for many reasons, the main reason is I want them bound by a lifetime contract that is enforceable, that is very hard to do if you sell the horse. I also do it as a way to raise funds for the rescue as my horses are sound, healthy and in excellent condition so they get adopted very quickly for a nice adoption fee. When they go on to excell in other disciplines it is a win-win for everyone involved. Don't sweat the rescue title, you did a good thing.

Rita1
Jan. 26, 2008, 12:17 PM
No I am not disappointed that I do not have her papers. And for your info, I was told they were rescued, given up. I guess you normally keep your mares in such wonderfull condition! Cribbing collar eating into her flesh, Riddled with worms and scored a 2 on a fittness scale bravo! Maybe you should have given them up earlier. And as for the filly you could not even get near her at first. But then out of that group of foals she was the only one doing well. Perhaps a call to the vet to put them down peacefully would be better and cheaper. She is a a wonderfull filly, I was just interested in the stallions background since the owner never returned my calls. Yes, I am very lucky because that filly is very dear to me. Oh and by the way I payed a buck for the both of them.

Hauwse
Jan. 26, 2008, 12:57 PM
I agree sometimes it can hardly be considered rescue. I am not in any way trying to make disparaging remarks about Canter, I love that they do what they do, and I have nothing but respect for the organization, and the people who work and donate resources to them.

My focus is the hunter/jumpers. I do own race horses, but I do it because I love TB's and I love the sport, I would describe my involvement in the sport more as a donator than anything else, but I am fine with that, I get a great deal of enjoyment out of it, and maybe one day I will save enough money to buy a truly competitive race horse.

I buy horses off the track frequently, I bought over 30 in the last year or so, and on more than one occasion I have had Canter purchase horses from me that someone else was interested in. The point being that they we're not broke down, in jeopardy or anything close to it, they we're just done racing.

I did donate a horse to Canter once as well who was just determined to die. He came off the track and had some serious bouts of colic, thousands of dollars and a couple months later I donated him because I was spending all my time and energy on him, and I had a ton of other horses that we're not getting my attention as a result. I will be forever grateful to them for completing his rehab and finding him a good home, but he was the exception in my experience, not the rule.

Rita1
Jan. 26, 2008, 01:05 PM
The mares were given up, it could of been any resuce orginazation, just happened to be canter. This was a different case then your off the track horses. 3 mares with foals.

jenkoby
Jan. 26, 2008, 02:45 PM
I have to back Rita up on this one. I saw her mare and foal as well as the other mares and foals that were "given-up", rescued, whatever you want to call it and they were not in good condition at all. I guess maybe some people have different standards of care, but if those were my horses, I'd be ashamed of myself.

Rita1
Jan. 26, 2008, 04:37 PM
And as far as going to a pet home, you had them all up for sale. As I have been told, You were contacted, with the suggestion of giving them up. Furthermore, as far as being used up as a broodmare, who is the one who bred her and let her fall in such poor condition? Give me a break.

Blueshadow
Jan. 26, 2008, 09:32 PM
I think it would be good to remember that one thing that TB rescues/rehab/adoption/retraining organizations all struggle with every day is trying to persuade owners of both racehorses AND breeding stock (there is no distinction in my mind that is meaningful; any TB that is no longer of commercial or other value to its owner) to do exactly what the former owner in this case did; donate them. It is a struggle to have them donate them rather than dump them at auction, or call the killer directly. Many such organizations don't have funds to BUY TBs. Many (not CANTER in particular) have a mandate ONLY to accept donated TBs. Good for the former owner for donating them. Good for the current owner for taking them on and giving them a good home. Anything else of dispute should be discussed privately, I would think.

Let's not raise the spectre of owners who actually do choose to donate being publicly punished for it. TBs all over the country need donation to be an attractive option to their owners. They desperately need it.

Barnfairy
Jan. 26, 2008, 10:05 PM
I think it would be good to remember that one thing that TB rescues/rehab/adoption/retraining organizations all struggle with every day is trying to persuade owners of both racehorses AND breeding stock (there is no distinction in my mind that is meaningful; any TB that is no longer of commercial or other value to its owner) to do exactly what the former owner in this case did; donate them. It is a struggle to have them donate them rather than dump them at auction, or call the killer directly. Many such organizations don't have funds to BUY TBs. Many (not CANTER in particular) have a mandate ONLY to accept donated TBs. Good for the former owner for donating them. Good for the current owner for taking them on and giving them a good home. Anything else of dispute should be discussed privately, I would think.

Let's not raise the spectre of owners who actually do choose to donate being publicly punished for it. TBs all over the country need donation to be an attractive option to their owners. They desperately need it.Worth repeating because it is so true.

Well said, Blueshadow! Thank you for that.

Rita1
Jan. 27, 2008, 09:35 AM
Nobody was pubilcly punishing anyone. That was never my intention, if you read the other postings. As far as I know, that horse could have changed hands 20 times in her life. I dont know the poster from Adam. I Originally was stating a observation on a horses behavior. I then followed them up with facts as to the horses condition after her posting. It only became a dispute when she posted the thread. Would you like pics posted? Maybe then we can all have a dispute.

Blueshadow
Jan. 27, 2008, 02:29 PM
Listen - you came here, posted that you had a) "rescued" a mare and foal, and b) observed a behavioural incident from which you inferred that the mare may have been abused. You posted the name of the mare, which immediately exposes the former owner to inferences that she/he had abused the mare.

Someone here recognized the mare's name, and alerted the former owner who - actually fairly understandably I believe (I probably would have come here and taken a similar but not identical action) - came to the thread and defended her/him self against the two claims that you had made.

What happens next? You then imply that the same poster is a) reponsible for the mare's poor body condition, and b) (with language that I found highly subjective and suggestive that there was something amiss with this) stated that the owner had "given up" the horses to CANTER at the urging of CANTER.

It is the last of these points of yours that bothers me - as someone who has been directly involved in thoroughbred rescue from auctions and killers lots - it is really troubling to me that you want to cast a dark cloud on the act of donation. And I DONT CARE what condition the mare and filly are - all the more so - the act of donation was obviously an appropriate one.

However, I would also mention that

a) you do NOT know that the poster is actually responsible for the mare's body condition (I have had mares repeatdely return from breeding farms in lower weight than I sent them and sometimes it takes months to return them to good weight)

b) you do NOT know that the poster is directly responsible for any strange behavioural response on the part of the mare (again, said mare has been a commerical broodmare and spent time on breeding farms where she has been exposed to handling by many other individuals).

It is actually EVEN MORE important, if there are health issues, that an owner relinquish/donate horses without being concerned about public scrutiny.

That's all. Look at your own posts. Try to think about the bigger picture. Please. And no - I don't need or want to see pictures of your new horses. Congratulations on acquiring them.

Rita1
Jan. 27, 2008, 03:15 PM
If you would read my posts again, you are right a horse can change many hands during a broodmare operation. On the other hand, I know for a fact that these horses were picked up from her, where she kept them. They were not sent away to be bred. Are you implying that the breeder from the year before sent them out in that condition? What do you know? Well it sure is amazing that it she kept them in such poor condition for a year, Gets me to thinking. If this stops her, now that it is a issue from every breeding again, then great. Futhermore, it was not Canter, but someone who saw her add, and suggested that she consider giveing them up. Canter was the suggested rescue. And as far as the big picture, Im glad she gave them up, but why wait so long? It makes it ok to keep animals, in that condition cause when you give them up to a rescue it makes it all better. Ok, so she did not beat the horse, but SHE WAS NOT FEEDING THEM!!!!!

Rita1
Jan. 27, 2008, 03:26 PM
Oh and you are right, I should of not posted that I rescued them, because I did not. If anything I should not of phrased that first posting like I did. They were at a rescue when I saw them.

Blueshadow
Jan. 27, 2008, 04:02 PM
If you would read my posts again, you are right a horse can change many hands during a broodmare operation. On the other hand, I know for a fact that these horses were picked up from her, where she kept them. They were not sent away to be bred. Are you implying that the breeder from the year before sent them out in that condition? What do you know? Well it sure is amazing that it she kept them in such poor condition for a year, Gets me to thinking. If this stops her, now that it is a issue from every breeding again, then great. Futhermore, it was not Canter, but someone who saw her add, and suggested that she consider giveing them up. Canter was the suggested rescue. And as far as the big picture, Im glad she gave them up, but why wait so long? It makes it ok to keep animals, in that condition cause when you give them up to a rescue it makes it all better. Ok, so she did not beat the horse, but SHE WAS NOT FEEDING THEM!!!!!

As I said in my previous post - if the former owner was not able or willing to feed the horses appropriately, all the better that the donation was suggested, offered by CANTER, and that the owner accepted the donation offer. The system (private and public) worked for once. Wonderful news for all concerned.

Laurierace
Jan. 27, 2008, 04:32 PM
As I said in my previous post - if the former owner was not able or willing to feed the horses appropriately, all the better that the donation was suggested, offered by CANTER, and that the owner accepted the donation offer. The system (private and public) worked for once. Wonderful news for all concerned.

I agree with this completely. Just be glad the horses are in a good place now and move on. Rescuing horses is an awful lot like finding a baby on the steps of a church. You may want to find out who the mother is and give her hell for abandoning her baby albeit in a safe place, but the next time she wants to give up her baby it will be in the dumpster instead. I never comment on the condition of the horses people want me to place because if I criticize or even start asking a lot of questions the next time their horse goes straight to New Holland.