Would you take ownership of an HYPP Postive horse if

[Manes&Tails]

it is a very nice horse and free to a good home?

[Beverley]

No.

[Nipntuck]

No

[CAH]

It depends...

A H/H horse - no.

A N/H horse - would try to find out as much history as possible. Horses can be H/N and not show symptoms of the disease. Diet is also key in these situations.

[Katy Watts]

No.
I've seen one with bizarre waves of muscle spasms coursing over it's whole body. It could not be ridden. Had seizures in between halter classes. Dropped dead of a heart attack at a fairly young age. Management nightmare.
Katy

[MistyBlue]

No to either H/H or N/H...price/free doesn't matter one bit on issue or possible issue horses since there's no such thing as a free horse. :winkgrin:
I'd also not take another horse until I had the boarding and farrier situation improved first. :)

[ddashaq]

Nope.

[AnotherRound]

You figure it out. What will it be costing you in vet bills and care? Sure. Go ahead.

[Manes&Tails]

No to either H/H or N/H...price/free doesn't matter one bit on issue or possible issue horses since there's no such thing as a free horse. :winkgrin:
I'd also not take another horse until I had the boarding and farrier situation improved first. :)

Thank you MB, but its not for me?

[Phaxxton]

No.

[goeslikestink]

depends on whats making him hypo

[Kelly in NJ]

No.

[ThoroughbredFancy]

Poor thing.

And why must people breed horses that are going to be positive for this?
There is testing.

Eh hem anyways...I wouldn't unless you have the money/resources and you know what comes with having that ailment.

[JB]

depends on whats making him hypo

Huh?

Even if a horse is 15 years old and is N/H without a single episode does not mean he won't spaz out tomorrow.

Nope, no way, no how.

[7HL]

NO. Watched woman dump $$$$$ into a horse that was spitting image of Impressive. The horse had ongoing siezures. She never road the horse just spent money on meds, special diet and care. She adopted it from a rescue, that "saved" it at auction. She couldn't put it down and they would just adopt it out again if she wanted to get rid of it. They had the right to get it back if she didn't want it. The rescue didn't advise her of the condition. I mention the Impressive looking, because the horse started almost immediately having problems once she got it. The rescue or anyone that knows horses, should have recognized it right away.

So I say NO NO NO!!!!

[Auventera Two]

N/H, sure.

H/H, yes. Then I would put it to sleep. If people would have weeded out this problem years ago, we wouldn't be having this discussion now.

[AnotherRound]

Oh, that's a good point, Av2, take on the horse and then you could be the responsible one for the animal and put it down. That would be a responsible way to handle that. I agree with euthenasia under those kinds of circumstances.

[tds]

N/H, sure.

H/H, yes. Then I would put it to sleep. If people would have weeded out this problem years ago, we wouldn't be having this discussion now.

Good idea, I mean if it is a gelding and not in distress, why not?

I wouldn't be breeding any H/H horses but damned if I can see how weeding out a non-breeding animal changes the past OR the future.

[Zipsmom]

No.

[katarine]

N/H no

H/H yes and euthanize.

I've dealt with HYPP. I won't own one.

[Auventera Two]

Good idea, I mean if it is a gelding and not in distress, why not?

I wouldn't be breeding any H/H horses but damned if I can see how weeding out a non-breeding animal changes the past OR the future.

Have you ever seen a horse affected with HYPP? I have, and it's ugly. I would never subject a horse to that. I boarded with a horse that had regular attacks. The vet was always out. The owner was always in distres. The horse was always off feed, shaking, cold, stressed, tied up, you name it. You never know when it's going to strike (a full blown attack). Put the horse down before making him suffer through the trauma.

You know, sometimes it's not about you, or your own agenda, but it's about what's best for the horse.

Compassion with DISCIPLINE.

Compassion without discipline is not what I'd consider a positive human trait.

[atr]

JB, GLS is from England. Very few QH there so she's probably never heard of HYPP.

GLS, in a nutshell, HYPP is an inheritable genetic disease that is not uncommon in one particular line of Quarter Horses--traces back to a horse called Impressive. It causes muscle spasms and seizures. Problem is, Impressive bred, HYPP positive horses also display a highly developed musculature that is sought after and rewarded in the halter show world, so some people have perpetuated the line by breeding HYPP positive horses.

It's not really treatable--you can control the seizures to an extent with careful dietary management and medication, but it's not always possible. Events are painful, frightening and potentially fatal.

It could so easily be bred out of the population, such a shame.

[katarine]

It is being bred out - it's taking entirely too long, but it is. I think it's in 09 that h/h is OUT for papers, and maybe n/h, too?

It's horrible to watch a horse go from fine one second, to down and freaked the next. The mare I dealt with - she looked like there was a squirrel under her hide, crunching up those muscles, creeping all over...and toward the end she'd visibly get even more worried...I suppose there was internally, really wonky stuff going on. She'd lay there flat on her side- and you couldn't bend her limbs, no lie- they would NOT flex. She was better if someone sat with her, so if I was at the barn when she went down, I did :(

[Huntertwo]

Nope - Not worth the heartache.:no:

[goeslikestink]

JB, GLS is from England. Very few QH there so she's probably never heard of HYPP.

GLS, in a nutshell, HYPP is an inheritable genetic disease that is not uncommon in one particular line of Quarter Horses--traces back to a horse called Impressive. It causes muscle spasms and seizures. Problem is, Impressive bred, HYPP positive horses also display a highly developed musculature that is sought after and rewarded in the halter show world, so some people have perpetuated the line by breeding HYPP positive horses.

It's not really treatable--you can control the seizures to an extent with careful dietary management and medication, but it's not always possible. Events are painful, frightening and potentially fatal.

It could so easily be bred out of the population, such a shame.

oh right didnt know thanks its n those big fat monsters of horses that have it the ugly ones ones that are show quarter horses as in fat everywhere
like little horsey body builders -- haha

[goeslikestink]

hoot an tick dont tell me its one of those investment horses your barn owner or wahtever has
and its a rescue job

[Manes&Tails]

hoot an tick dont tell me its one of those investment horses your barn owner or wahtever has
and its a rescue job
No, a friend of mine breed an raised her to a 3 year old and wants to give her to a good home, know what it is, but have never delt with it, nor seen an attack, and was wondering if the horse should just be put down. She is a beautiful black and white paint and very sweet.

I have a friend that has a gelding that is + and she has been showing him for years with not problems.

I know what it is, but do not know enough about it, if the effects are different in each case?

[katarine]

H&T every horse is different and some can be managed via diet and exercise, others, cannot...and everything in between.

H/H horses don't commonly live a long life.

Many N/H horses are functional..some only exhibit it in the flickering eyelid, others are like the mare I described...fine one minute-glazed a second later- then DOWN and rigid for 45 minutes of sweaty hell.

I don't want to own one ever, or find myself sitting on one, often.

[MistyBlue]

They can not show signs for years and then have attacks. It's not really predictable.
Some breed show barns will take positive horses and they don't have issues with it as long as the horse is show quality. Heck, since it's a filly and a desirable color pattern...they'd probably breed her. :no:
It's basically a crapshoot/gamble if and when they may or may not have attacks...and it's also a gamble on how severe those attacks may be. It's a gamlbe many are not willing to take...but others will if the horse is N/H and they have experience dealing with it.
Frankly I'm surprised someone who isn't showing halter was breeding any horses that had a chance of passing this along in the filly. :(

[tds]

Have you ever seen a horse affected with HYPP?

Yes, I have. The horse suffered very rare, very mild attacks and lived a very nice functional life on medication and controlled diet. He was a joy to his owner. Now I agree (thus the "no duh" caveat about distress) that a horse that suffers should not suffer needlessly and for a human's failure to take responsibility (again, no duh). But sweeping generalizations are not exactly a better way to approach the problem.

[JB]

Good idea, I mean if it is a gelding and not in distress, why not?

I wouldn't be breeding any H/H horses but damned if I can see how weeding out a non-breeding animal changes the past OR the future.

Since it's totally unknown when a N/H horse can have an attack, nor how severe it would be, if I HAD to own one, he'd be a pasture potato, and if he ever suffered an attack there, I'd have him put down. I will not knowingly get on a ?/H horse because the last thing I want is to have him sieze with me on him. Putting down these horses at least prevents them from getting into the hands of people who don't know about the disease, aren't told the horse has it, and feeding/stressing him to the point where he has a seizure and falls on their little girl.

oh right didnt know thanks its n those big fat monsters of horses that have it the ugly ones ones that are show quarter horses as in fat everywhere
like little horsey body builders -- haha

Not all ?/H horses are bulky body-builder horses. Some are sleek and "normal" looking.

[cholmberg]

No. No matter how nice.

[Manes&Tails]

a lot of paint horses have it also, there are a lot of paints that are half 1/2 QH. This filly is out of QH mare and paint stallion, and is a paint.

[JB]

Anything with QH blood has the potential. This means Appendix as well. There are some "QH" horses who are mostly TB, but can still be ?/H

[Kcisawesome]

Never.

I knew a 20yrold Hypp positive horse "Eddie" who had never had one bit of a problem. He was a wonderful horse..In fact, the best "lesson/beginer" type horse I've ever seen. He had three little girls who loved him and rode him every day.

So one day after feeding the horses and cleaning stalls all the kids went into the tack room for a water break. They came back out and Eddie was dead in his stall.

:no:

Never.

[Calena]

No. I've known one, that was enough. According to the vet, she wasn't even that bad :confused: . It's like owning a time bomb, the owners could never relax, they never knew when she might have an attack or how bad it would be. They spent a fortune trying to get the mare help, trying to keep her stable. When she was stable she was a very nice mare, but who would knowingly buy into that (beyond the show barns)? I hate to say it, but I agree with euthansia for these horses. It's a life of suffering for both the horse and the owner with no hope.

[clanter]

How much money are they pitching in?

[Lisa Cook]

Anything with QH blood has the potential. This means Appendix as well. There are some "QH" horses who are mostly TB, but can still be ?/H

Judging upon every issue of Appaloosa Horse Journal that I open, a lot of Appy breeders apparently just want halter-bred Quarter Horses. There's so much QH infusion into the Appaloosa breed now, the ApHC recently passed a rule allowing HYPP postive Appaloosas to be shown with Ace in their system at breed shows without penalty. :dead:

[rcloisonne]

a lot of paint horses have it also, there are a lot of paints that are half 1/2 QH. This filly is out of QH mare and paint stallion, and is a paint.
Wasn’t the “Paint” registry created to take the QH that at one time couldn't be registered with the AQHA because of “excessive” white? I've seen plenty of solid "paints" that could pass for pure QH.

I wouldn't take a HyPP (H/H or N/H) horse if someone paid ME. And anyone breeding these poor creatures needs to be arrested and fined 'til it hurts. Stop breeding all positive animals and the problem goes away. DUH!

But that ain’t gonna happen when the rich and famous stand HyPP N/H THINGS like this, aka,“World Champions”: :rolleyes:
http://www.circle12.com/main.html

As if we don’t already have enough of these sufferin horses in the world: :no:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rE-kuYDrNEU

[katarine]

BREED is irrelevant to HYPP, Hoot, breedING, is not...any horse with Impressive in the woodpile somewhere, should have their papers stamped by now, one way or the other. If you've got a grade horse with weird symptoms...send hair to UC Davis.

Again- BREED doesn't matter- breeding does.

[MistyBlue]

Judging upon every issue of Appaloosa Horse Journal that I open, a lot of Appy breeders apparently just want halter-bred Quarter Horses. There's so much QH infusion into the Appaloosa breed now, the ApHC recently passed a rule allowing HYPP postive Appaloosas to be shown with Ace in their system at breed shows without penalty.

Lisa...I was nodding as I read your post agreeing with you that I also am not thrilled with the "Quarterloosas" but I had a real :eek: moment when I read that last line! Really? They're going to allow Ace on HYPP+ Apps without penalty???? :eek: :o :no:

[JB]

Judging upon every issue of Appaloosa Horse Journal that I open, a lot of Appy breeders apparently just want halter-bred Quarter Horses. There's so much QH infusion into the Appaloosa breed now, the ApHC recently passed a rule allowing HYPP postive Appaloosas to be shown with Ace in their system at breed shows without penalty. :dead:

That is insane and a travesty!

[Dazednconfused]

depends on whats making him hypo

:confused: WTF?

It's a genetic disease....

[Lilypie]

Just remember a free horse is never free (ie vet bills, farrier bills etc.) a horse that has a problem such as HYPP is a big expense...special diet, medication, big vet bills if he has a bad attack.. I own a HYPP N/H horse love him to death and he has a forever home with me but would I own another one absolutely not there is enough other things we worry about with our four legged friends so why take one with a known problem.

[Lisa Cook]

I almost gave up my ApHC membership over the new rule regarding Ace & HYPP + Appaloosas. It is appalling. Oh - and to answer the OP's question - no, I would not take a free gift of such an animal.

From page 38 of the 2008 ApHC Rule Book, found online at

http://www.appaloosa.com/registration/handbook.htm

Quote:

Acetazolamide—May only be administered to horses documented
through DNA testing from a sample that has also been tested to verify
parentage, to be positive (N/H or H/H) for HYPP (Hyperkalemic
Periodic Paralysis) and such HYPP status must be noted on ApHC
registration documents that are made available to the public in the
horse’s files.. When acetazolamide is administered, the dose should
be accurately calculated according to the actual weight of the animal.
Each 24 hours, not more than 3 milligrams per pound of body weight
should be administered. For a 1,000-pound animal, the maximum
daily dose is 3 grams. Owners must notify the ApHC of HYPP test
results (N/H or H/H) and said notice shall be filed with the ApHC and
include proper identification of the horse and such notification shall be
required prior to administration of acetazolamide.

[tds]

FYI " Acetazolamide" is not the same thing as what most people mean by the abbreviation "Ace". Ace generally refers to acepromazine. BIG difference!

[goeslikestink]

:confused: WTF?

It's a genetic disease....

QUOTE=goeslikestink;2881936]oh right didnt know thanks its n those big fat monsters of horses that have it the ugly ones ones that are show quarter horses as in fat everywhere
like little horsey body builders -- haha[/QUOTE]


iam not from usa so didnt know i thouught you was talking about a hyp nutcase horse jb had others have expalined previously

see never to old to learn a few things

jb thanks - for stating about body buider types-- so its a normal thing with quaerter horses
um thats rather disconcerning-- if someone wanted one and didnt know like me
say in uk -
intersting i will have to read up on it can you give me the medical name ta

[Woodland]

it is a very nice horse and free to a good home?

I own one. He is my own personal horse. He is perhaps one of the finest horses I have ever owned.

Understanding a potential concern is very important. Like anything found in a PPE, when you know you can manage horse according to his needs.

HYPP is WAY over blown in my opinion. I LOVE Impressive bred horses - excellent horses! Good minded, excellent performers loving dispositions!


IF you decide not to take him let me know :winkgrin:

My Horse is N/H I knew it when I got him - it made no difference too me.

Are you taking advice from people who have actually owned/trained HYPP H/H, N/H or N/N horsesor just people without first hand expirence?

[Lisa Cook]

FYI " Acetazolamide" is not the same thing as what most people mean by the abbreviation "Ace". Ace generally refers to acepromazine. BIG difference!

Thanks so much for correcting that! I had been told by someone that Ace was now allowed in HYPP Appys. I went to the handbook and saw the word starting with "Ace...." and went "yep, there it is!". Oh dear. Science was never my strong suit, but other than the first 3 letters, the 2 drugs aren't even similar in name. That's embarrassing. :uhoh:

Sorry for a misleading statement and thanks for pointing it out. It would have been silly for me to give up membership over this, now, wouldn't it?

[Manes&Tails]

I own one. He is my own personal horse. He is perhaps one of the finest horses I have ever owned.

Understanding a potential concern is very important. Like anything found in a PPE, when you know you can manage horse according to his needs.

HYPP is WAY over blown in my opinion. I LOVE Impressive bred horses - excellent horses! Good minded, excellent performers loving dispositions!


IF you decide not to take him let me know :winkgrin:

My Horse is N/H I knew it when I got him - it made no difference too me.

Are you taking advice from people who have actually owned/trained HYPP H/H, N/H or N/N horsesor just people without first hand expirence?

The horse is not mine, nor for me, a friend of mine that did not know there was such a thing as HYPP, bred her QH mare to a Paint Stallion, and got a beautiful, but + mare. She was going to keep her for a pasture horse unless she starting having attacks and then put her down, put so far she will be turning 3 next month. But, she has moved where she is limited to how many horses she can have, so she wants to give her to a good home, and I have another friend in mind that would love to have her and give her a good home. I just wanted to know more about it, and what do you do with + horses? Any who if the other friend takes her she will be on a watch diet, etc and never, ever bred, and will not be sent to slaughter, she would be put down first. I just hope all works out for the horse and everyone involved. Thank you for your informaiton. I don't know where you are located, but there is a beautiful paint mare for free to good home on the give away section.

[tds]

Lisa, it could very well be that in the HYPP world, people shorten it to "ace" as well and don't think twice about it, assuming everyone will know what they are talking about. I used to do that when my horse was on cyproheptadine - called it cypro all the time. It sort of freaked out all the people more used to the high test anthrax antibiotic called "cipro" though... :D

Still, it says something when an association endorses a drug that allows a horse with an undesirable genetic characteristic to be shown. That's drawing a firm moral line in the sand, isn't it? Not.

[Austin Rider]

QUOTE=goeslikestink;2881936]oh right didnt know thanks its n those big fat monsters of horses that have it the ugly ones ones that are show quarter horses as in fat everywhere
like little horsey body builders -- haha


iam not from usa so didnt know i thouught you was talking about a hyp nutcase horse jb had others have expalined previously

see never to old to learn a few things

jb thanks - for stating about body buider types-- so its a normal thing with quaerter horses
um thats rather disconcerning-- if someone wanted one and didnt know like me
say in uk -
intersting i will have to read up on it can you give me the medical name ta



Hang on here...let's not get a misconception going about the quarterhorse breed with our friends in UK. HYPP is not a "normal thing" with quarterhorses. It's a genetic disease that occurs in many (but not all) horses with Impressive breeding. The majority of quarterhorses are negative to HYPP, do not have the disease, and do not have the bulked-up, body-builder physique that you see in QH halter horse discipline. Overall, the quarterhorse is a wonderful breed--good minded, sensible, intelligent, and all-around performers. I just love them. In fact, I have a mare with Impressive bloodline on dam side, but she's negative (N/N). She's a absolutely lovely individual and my favorite horse of all time.

Concerning OP's original question, I wouldn't personally take an N/H or H/H horse--just don't have the time, space, or inclination to deal with it if the horse begins to show symptoms. However, I can see rehoming her with a very experienced person who has dealt with N/H horses before. Tough situation though...I'd worry about someone down the line breeding her.

[WildBlue]

In answer to the OPs question, no I would not. Just as I probably would not take any free horse with certain behavioral issues, needing specialized shoeing, requiring medication, etc. There are plenty of free or inexpensive horses without any of these issues, and as others have pointed out it's not the purchase price but the upkeep.

[katarine]

Woodland if the question is would you own one, it's going to be hard to find respondants that say 'no', and simultaneously own one. :yes::no:

I worked and boarded alongside an HYPP N/H mare. She had terrible attacks. I won't own one.

[JB]

FYI " Acetazolamide" is not the same thing as what most people mean by the abbreviation "Ace". Ace generally refers to acepromazine. BIG difference!

Thanks, I was gonna say that when I read the rule! Yes, very very different - Acetozolamide is the medicine of choice to control HYPP.

[JB]

jb thanks - for stating about body buider types-- so its a normal thing with quaerter horses


HYPP will get you a good Google search :) But, it's Hyperkalemic Periodic Paralysis.

It's not a "normal" think in QH's (or ANY horse with QH blood), it's specific to a line of horses that descend from the apparent originator, a horse called Impressive. It's also called the "Impressive disease" because of this. To be a LITTLE fair, it wasn't known that HYPP is what it is until years after. Impressive was a pretty darn impressive little foal, hence his name - very muscled for his breed and age. He took the halter scene by storm because of it, therefore everyone wanted to breed to him. This meant he passed on that gene to a LOT of foals, and those offspring to more foals, before it was discovered what the issue was. The seizures are NOT a pretty sight.

The AQHA has, as of this year, started denying registration of the H/H horses. However, N/H horses are still allowed in, therefore the disease perpetuates in the registry for the unforseable future. There's talk about the N/H horses being banned also. But, even still, that's only from the registry, and it will take a looooong time, if ever, for the disease to be wiped out due to unscrupulous and unknowing backyard breeders.

It's an EASY disease to wipe out - could be gone in one generation. But because there are idiots involved, I think it will be around for far too long :(

[JB]

I own one. He is my own personal horse. He is perhaps one of the finest horses I have ever owned.
Nobody said they can't be phenominal horses :)

HYPP is WAY over blown in my opinion. I LOVE Impressive bred horses - excellent horses! Good minded, excellent performers loving dispositions!
Can you explain why *you* think it's overblown? Have you ever seen one in a full seizure? Despite proper feeding?

Are you taking advice from people who have actually owned/trained HYPP H/H, N/H or N/N horsesor just people without first hand expirence?
Many of the advice given here has been based on personal experience with the active disease.

The horse is not mine, nor for me, a friend of mine that did not know there was such a thing as HYPP, bred her QH mare to a Paint Stallion, and got a beautiful, but + mare. She was going to keep her for a pasture horse unless she starting having attacks and then put her down, put so far she will be turning 3 next month.
At age 3, not ever having been really stressed physically or mentally, there is zero guarantee she won't have a seizure during/after her first hard ride.

[Woodland]

Hoot & Tick


My Husband and I bred Impressive bred horses for many years - this before HYPP was discovered. Once in a great while you would hear about "Impressive syndrom" But it was rarely fatal. We bred mares 27 to Impressive. Plus we handled a large number of Impressive and Conclusive off spring for other people. We never not even once had an HYPP "attack". Statistically we had to have had an HYPP - and we FED these halter beauties!!!

Now my guy is a HUGE bodied horse that is N/H. My understanding is that muscle mass can be an indicator for attacks. My guy is fed Safe Choice - which is what my vet recomended, and is on a list of feeds U C Davis recommends. He has has free choice mixed hay.

He is not my first N/H or H/H horse since the test became available. Again management and education has been the keys to keeping them healthy and attack free. Again I am going to stress thus far we have not had an attack, and I only know of 8 horses who have died or become unuseable because of HYPP and all of them were H/H - well one was before the test- I am assuming he was H/H :)

Breeding wise if the mare is N/H I would have absolutely no reservations about breeding her - providing I bred to an N/N or out cross. This policy has worked exceptionally well for me.

I would advise working with an HYPP educated vet. And reading the UC Davis research.

[IndysMom]

No, I wouldn't take ownership of an HYPP positive horse. Not even for free.

The "free" horse in our barn (a wb schoolmaster) has cost his owner thousands of dollars in the past several years. Dollars that she didn't have. I don't know how she's paying his vet bills. So, no horse is really "free".

[Manes&Tails]

Hoot & Tick


My Husband and I bred Impressive bred horses for many years - this before HYPP was discovered. Once in a great while you would hear about "Impressive syndrom" But it was rarely fatal. We bred mares 27 to Impressive. Plus we handled a large number of Impressive and Conclusive off spring for other people. We never not even once had an HYPP "attack". Statistically we had to have had an HYPP - and we FED these halter beauties!!!

Now my guy is a HUGE bodied horse that is N/H. My understanding is that muscle mass can be an indicator for attacks. My guy is fed Safe Choice - which is what my vet recomended, and is on a list of feeds U C Davis recommends. He has has free choice mixed hay.

He is not my first N/H or H/H horse since the test became available. Again management and education has been the keys to keeping them healthy and attack free. Again I am going to stress thus far we have not had an attack, and I only know of 8 horses who have died or become unuseable because of HYPP and all of them were H/H - well one was before the test- I am assuming he was H/H :)

Breeding wise if the mare is N/H I would have absolutely no reservations about breeding her - providing I bred to an N/N or out cross. This policy has worked exceptionally well for me.

I would advise working with an HYPP educated vet. And reading the UC Davis research.

Thanks for the info, I will pass on.

[snopbobil]

Yes, and I have one right now. We were given a 2 month old filly, supposedly HYPP negative, but had all the symtoms, we took her home at 8 months old, we've spent may $200.00 on chiro/accupunture treatments on her, she's now almost 4, still has symtoms, but not nearly as bad, she seems to get better with age, were completely holistic, so no vaccines, chemical wormer or drugs and she's doing great and is such a sweet heart. We plan on NEVER riding or breeding her.

[cosmos mom]

no

[Beverley]

Hoot & Tick


My Husband and I bred Impressive bred horses for many years - this before HYPP was discovered. Once in a great while you would hear about "Impressive syndrom" But it was rarely fatal. We bred mares 27 to Impressive. Plus we handled a large number of Impressive and Conclusive off spring for other people. We never not even once had an HYPP "attack". Statistically we had to have had an HYPP - and we FED these halter beauties!!!

Now my guy is a HUGE bodied horse that is N/H. My understanding is that muscle mass can be an indicator for attacks. My guy is fed Safe Choice - which is what my vet recomended, and is on a list of feeds U C Davis recommends. He has has free choice mixed hay.

He is not my first N/H or H/H horse since the test became available. Again management and education has been the keys to keeping them healthy and attack free. Again I am going to stress thus far we have not had an attack, and I only know of 8 horses who have died or become unuseable because of HYPP and all of them were H/H - well one was before the test- I am assuming he was H/H :)

Breeding wise if the mare is N/H I would have absolutely no reservations about breeding her - providing I bred to an N/N or out cross. This policy has worked exceptionally well for me.

I would advise working with an HYPP educated vet. And reading the UC Davis research.

Well then, Woodland, nothing personal mind you, but you could be one of the breeders I take great issue with, if you continued to breed that line AFTER the HYPP issue was identified. Once the problem was identified, the breeding of the Impressive line should have stopped. No ifs, ands, or buts. To have willfully perpetuated such a serious flaw for the sake of Impressive's muscling qualities was, in my opinion, unconscionable. No, I don't think the HYPP issue is overblown. You only need to see one horse having a full blown attack to know that it is ridiculous to risk that health condition when there are so many great quarter horse lines that don't include Impressive and that should be perpetuated.

[JB]

Breeding wise if the mare is N/H I would have absolutely no reservations about breeding her - providing I bred to an N/N or out cross.
WHY? Why do you want to perpetuate the disease? You have a 50/50 chance each time of producing a N/H foal. Maybe YOU don't have a problem managing these horses (even then it's no guarantee and your luck will run out sooner or later), but you have zero control over where those foals end up unless you personally keep them for the rest of their lives. Do you have any idea how many "grade" horses are sold with no knowledge, or knowledge but no disclosure, of the horse being ?/H, to new owners who have no idea what the disease is? I have a real problem with this and have no qualms stating it.

This policy has worked exceptionally well for me.
So far - you will have trouble one day. N/H is no guarantee of a seizure-free life.

I would advise working with an HYPP educated vet. And reading the UC Davis research.
Then what? Even the best-managed horses can have an attack.

[Sithly]

Wow. It just kills me that people would breed a horse with a WELL-KNOWN GENETIC DISEASE and then spend their lives accomodating that WELL-KNOWN GENETIC DISEASE. Especially when simply not breeding diseased animals would completely eliminate the problem and then nobody would have to worry about it. WTF?

How can you possibly defend that?

[Sing Mia Song]

What I'm curious about is how HYPP originated with Impressive. Surely one of his parents must have been a carrier (Impressive himself was N/H). And he was more TB than QH, being by a TB stallion and out of a 1/4TB mare. Was it the heavy inbreeding to Three Bars (2x3x4)? Did the HYPP gene originate with the QH blood or the TB blood?

[JB]

What I'm curious about is how HYPP originated with Impressive. Surely one of his parents must have been a carrier (Impressive himself was N/H). And he was more TB than QH, being by a TB stallion and out of a 1/4TB mare. Was it the heavy inbreeding to Three Bars (2x3x4)? Did the HYPP gene originate with the QH blood or the TB blood?

It's thought to be a genetic mutation originating with Impressive. There are some folks who think is dam carried it but that hasn't been proven.

[Liz]

If your friend can not afford a horse (and I am making an assumption here), then they probably can not afford the medical care that one with a genetic problem might need. There are many nice horses out there that can be adopted for a very small fee or even given away for free to a good home. I would reccomend you tell your friend to go that route, take the time to find the right horse rather than just take the first free horse that comes along.

Otherwise, if determined to go this route and take the mare, I would suggest you have them call a vet and at least get an idea from a professional about what they are getting into....including a projection of costs for upkeep.

Best of luck.

[Liz]

As an aside, woodland, I can not help but agree with some of the other posters and wonder why perpetuate the line with this genetic defect when there are so many other nice QH stallions without this problem.

I am not saying it is not your right, I just don't agree with it.

[philosoraptor]

If you want a total pasture ornament that you NEVER expect to make any money reselling (and certainly not for breeding), then maybe,

I had a Impressive line mare. Never tested her for HYPP but she was only going to be a pasture ornament anyway. She was very old when I took her on personally, and I didn't know about hypp back then until after I got her. Luckily she didn't have any obvious symptoms... but she could have.

I'd like to repeat the saying: there's no such thing as a free horse. Odds are if the owner is giving said horse away, he's well behind on his shots and other care. Here it costs $250-300 to get the minimal basics done: vaccinations, Coggins, teeth, hooves, vet exam. Add on $$$ for any issues the vet finds wrong. Does the person considering the free horse understand this?

From the horse shopper's standpoint, right now free RIDEABLE trained, sound, healthy horses can be had if you know where to look. If the buyer can't afford to buy a horse, can they afford lots of vet bills if this horse starts having weird problems that may or may not be hypp?

<general rant> Why in the world are people still breeding HYPP horses? Where's the fruitbat in that thinking? Here is one of many web pages explaining the dangers of HYPP and why it should never be bred: http://www.fightingms.org/hypp Makes no sense to keep this gene around. Why does any breed registry allow this nonsense? :mad:


Bottom line: I'd encourge anyone thinking of getting a HYPP-positive horse to do a lot of research before agreeing to take the horse. Not that the horse doesn't deserve a home... but the new owner needs to know what he/she is getting into.

[Woodland]

If you want a total pasture ornament that you NEVER expect to make any money reselling (and certainly not for breeding), then maybe,

I paid $8500 for my horse I am not sure they "made money" As they fed and trained and showed him for 5 years - but I think I got a DEAL!!!!


I had a Impressive line mare. Never tested her for HYPP but she was only going to be a pasture ornament anyway. She was very old when I took her on personally, and I didn't know about hypp back then until after I got her. Luckily she didn't have any obvious symptoms... but she could have.

Most Impressive bred horses are N/N. As I said in a previous post I personally have bred and or handled well over 100 Impressive bred horses. BEFORE there was a test. Those horses NEVER EVER Not even One time had an "attack" of any sort. These were highly regarded very successful HALTER horses. Back when the solgan was "feed'em & lead'em" No special diets - no medications. We even fed creatine to a few. We had own sons and daughters of Impressive, Conclusive,and Diversified


I'd like to repeat the saying: there's no such thing as a free horse.

Truer words were never written.


<general rant> Why in the world are people still breeding HYPP horses? Where's the fruitbat in that thinking? Here is one of many web pages explaining the dangers of HYPP and why it should never be bred: http://www.fightingms.org/hypp Makes no sense to keep this gene around. Why does any breed registry allow this nonsense?

Name calling is silly. The link posted is the HYPP equivalent to PETA. Look at the "video attack" The horse is cast in it's stall NOT having a neurological "attack". When uneducated people who are "haters" have an agenda they will scream until someone listens.

You want the truth? Then go to UC Davis they developed THE test - THEY are the EXPERTS!!! AQHA has ended registry for H/H horses. N/H horses are RECESSIVE meaning they have the gene marker ONLY. If they are HYPP N/H and having episodes - I'd have the test done again or look for another reason they are having problems.


Bottom line: I'd encourge anyone thinking of getting a HYPP-positive horse to do a lot of research before agreeing to take the horse. Not that the horse doesn't deserve a home... but the new owner needs to know what he/she is getting into.


Another poster accused me of "spreading the defect via my breeding program" Since we were breeding before there was a test And breeding animals with NO signs of problems how could this be true? Plus we stopped breeding horses 14 years ago. Our stallion retired and we sold the mares and equipment.

Would I breed an N/H mare? Yes. N/H means HYPP is a genetic marker ONLY. I would have a 50% chance of the resulting foal having a genetic marker N/H for RECESSIVE HYPP. So what? Statistically people breed FAR more horses with more serious defects like navicular, contracted heels and tendons, parrot mouth, weak hocks, straight shoulders, bad conformations, etc. So what a RECESSIVE GENE MARKER?


JMHO

[goldponies]

No

[chaltagor]

Would I breed an N/H mare? Yes. N/H means HYPP is a genetic marker ONLY. I would have a 50% chance of the resulting foal having a genetic marker N/H for RECESSIVE HYPP. So what? Statistically people breed FAR more horses with more serious defects like navicular, contracted heels and tendons, parrot mouth, weak hocks, straight shoulders, bad conformations, etc. So what a RECESSIVE GENE MARKER?

Other people do bad things, so why can't I? I'll just go on my merry way doing whatever the hell I want. Why should I have morals in this corrupt evil world? THAT'S NOT FAIR to me as an American citizen.

[JB]

N/H horses are RECESSIVE meaning they have the gene marker ONLY. If they are HYPP N/H and having episodes - I'd have the test done again or look for another reason they are having problems.
Wrong. N/H horses can and do have attacks. Is it guaranteed? No.

Another poster accused me of "spreading the defect via my breeding program" Since we were breeding before there was a test And breeding animals with NO signs of problems how could this be true? Plus we stopped breeding horses 14 years ago. Our stallion retired and we sold the mares and equipment. You said that if today you had a N/H mare you wouldn't not breed her because of that. That mentality is why there are still so many ?/H horses in this world.

Would I breed an N/H mare? Yes. N/H means HYPP is a genetic marker ONLY. I would have a 50% chance of the resulting foal having a genetic marker N/H for RECESSIVE HYPP. So what?
Perhaps you'd better read up a bit more on the disease if you think N/H is a carrier and never symptomatic.

Statistically people breed FAR more horses with more serious defects like navicular, contracted heels and tendons, parrot mouth, weak hocks, straight shoulders, bad conformations, etc. So what a RECESSIVE GENE MARKER? Contracted heels and navicular are more the result of poor trimming, not genetics. Contracted tendons are more a result of poor nutrition and not genetics.

Using straight shoulders and weak hocks and generally bad conformation is a really poor excuse to say "hey look, they're doing that, what's wrong with perpetuating HYPP?" No, poor conformation shouldn't be bred - just because it's being done doesn't make it right.

[philosoraptor]

You want the truth? Then go to UC Davis they developed THE test - THEY are the EXPERTS!!!

They also have the opinion it's a dominant, not recessive, disease. Those experts also agree it's fatal... and it's easily preventable if people stopped breeding any horses carrying the gene.

AQHA has ended registry for H/H horses. N/H horses are RECESSIVE meaning they have the gene marker ONLY. If they are HYPP N/H and having episodes - I'd have the test done again or look for another reason they are having problems.

You call it a "marker". I call it a horse who has a genetic disease. Tomatoes tomahtoes?

If it's a dominant gene (as UC Davis agrees), you only need just one copy of the gene to have the horse possibly get sick. That means your "marker" horses may even fall ill.

N/H can still pass on the disease. Plus if you get lucky and get a H/H foal out of that nice registered N/H mare x untested stallion, you're in big trouble.

N/H means HYPP is a genetic marker ONLY.

What does "genetic marker only" mean?

N/H means the horse has 1 normal gene and 1 gene for HYPP disease... in other words it means he could fall ill and could pass the disease on.

Would I breed an N/H mare? Yes.

With so many nice N/N (non-HYPP) horses out there, why would you though?

I would have a 50% chance of the resulting foal having a genetic marker N/H for RECESSIVE HYPP. So what? Statistically people breed FAR more horses with more serious defects like navicular, contracted heels and tendons, parrot mouth, weak hocks, straight shoulders, bad conformations, etc. So what a RECESSIVE GENE MARKER?

Who told you HYPP is recessive? Even the AQHA says (http://www.aqha.com/association/registration/hypp.html)it's a dominant trait.

You compare HYPP to conformation flaws such as parrot mouth or contracted heels. Horses with parrot mouth don't fall over in the show ring. They don't collapse under you as you trot down the trail. I've never heard of contracted heels causing a horse to suddenly drop dead. And the other flaws you list are things an educated horse owner can spot with his eyes. You'd never know a horse has HYPP by looking at him. You can do a DNA test on every qh-looking horse you meet, or you can buy him and hope today won't be the day he shows his true HYPP colors. Maybe it'll be subtle and you'll run up a huge vet bill trying to figure out why the horse is chronically NQR?

This isn't just some minor conformation problem such as straight shoulders. This isn't an "inconvenience". Even the AQHA admits it can be lethal. It comes on without warning, and you can't tell it's there unless you do DNA testing. Are we now forced to test everything that looks like it might have the tiniest bit of QH blood in it? Imagine all the horses out there without papers; thanks to the HYPP breeders the new horse owner needs to test those every time we consider buying anything remotely QH looking.

Bottom line: Here is a dangerous-to-lethal, dominant gene. We can easily & cheaply test for it. If we can detect it & eradicate it, why don't we?

Anyone considering getting a H/H or a N/H should at least be aware of the worst case scenario. Maybe the horse the OP was thinking about isn't the worst case. However, the worry with HYPP is that you won't know what his worst attack looks like until he has it.

A few more links for further reading:
http://www.vetmed.ucdavis.edu/CEH/pubs-HR23-2-sec.pdf (starts on p4)
http://www.foundationhorses.com/impressive_syndrom.htm
http://www.northwestvoice.com/home/ViewPost/6487
http://www.bringinglighttohypp.org/
http://hypp.8m.com/hyppcare.html

And I'm not ashamed to throw in FHOTHD's opinion:
http://fuglyhorseoftheday.blogspot.com/2007/09/and-finally-truth-comes-out.html

[BelladonnaLily]

Would I breed an N/H mare? Yes. N/H means HYPP is a genetic marker ONLY. I would have a 50% chance of the resulting foal having a genetic marker N/H for RECESSIVE HYPP. So what? Statistically people breed FAR more horses with more serious defects like navicular, contracted heels and tendons, parrot mouth, weak hocks, straight shoulders, bad conformations, etc. So what a RECESSIVE GENE MARKER?


JMHO


Well, if I had a reliable test that could prevent me from breeding a foal with weak hocks or parrot mouth (notwithstanding the obvious, don't breed a parrot-mouthed mare or stallion, etc.), you'd better bet I'd heed them and not breed the mare! There are too many nice mares out there to breed something that you know with certainty will produce something with a serious condition! The above statement is ridiculous....YOU HAVE A TEST THAT GIVES YOU ALL THE INFORMATION YOU NEED TO MAKE A SMARTER BREEDING DECISION! :rolleyes:

I have no respect for anyone that breeds a N/H or H/H horse. Period.

[Sing Mia Song]

It's thought to be a genetic mutation originating with Impressive. There are some folks who think is dam carried it but that hasn't been proven.

Thanks. The discussion inspired me to go happily putter around on All-Breed Query for several hours. :yes::lol:

[El Tovar]

NO!

[Carol Ames]

NO!

[tds]

Just to play the devil's advocate on the idea of a registry totally banning all N/H horses (as opposed to the N/N) ones, what would the economics of that be? What would happen to all the N/H stock? Regardless of what one might think about those big bulky beefmasters, er, halter QHs, they still were big business and made up a huge chunk of a huge industry in this country long before a test was even dreamed of. So if you impose a total ban, I am not sure how that's the best or only solution. Seems to me a lot of breeders would be bankrupted and a lot of stock would end up headed for unpleasant places.

Seems to me if you impose a ban on N/N horses, you drastically reduce the N/N horses going forward. If you were really serious you could have a 10 year plan to eliminate N/H horses from a registry and give breeders a chance to respond.

No it's not one of those charming all or nothing extremist positions some people are so fond of, but it would probably eliminate the problem over the long term with the least amount of economic damage to breeders and the least amount of dumped or unwanted stock. But it's so lacking in high drama and requires real cooperation to reach a middle ground. In short, whether it has a snowball's chance of hell of being implemented in a registry, we can safely say it has zero chance of being discussed rationally on a BB.

[katarine]

tds trust me, the AQHA is working to formulate a plan to do so, whether they are able to get enough peeps on board to vote it through, is another matter. My vet is an AQHA judge and national director...we've discussed it often. They are seeing the need to eliminate it, while not wanting to just push those N/H owners and breeder and their monies...over to APHA or ApHC or wherever else- that is sticky politics with horses and money. It just is.

Woodland, you are really off the charts in your weird, self-soothing glossing of the truth. That sort of flawed 'definition' of HYPP is what gets people the completely wrong information and definition of what can be a fatal flaw. The mare I dealt with? N/H, thank you very much, with a diet managed and overseen by Dr. Ed Murray. You're up on AQHA who's who, right ? You DO know who he is, RIGHT?

[Fancy]

In my childhood, the folks that bred Herford (whiteface) cows discovered Bang's disease. A cow with Bangs aborted her calf and then could never conceive again. Many of them died. The problem was traced back to one or two bloodlines, and every head with those genes was sent to slaughter. Bang's disease as far as I know, is a thing of the past. It was tough! My grandaddy lost a sizeable chunk of $$$. But the goal ws to eliminate the disease forever. And the breeder would lose the money sooner or later, anyway.

I think that the APHA should refuse to register breedable stock that comes from the Impressive line without a negative blood test. That would solve the problem, once and for all. I do understand that the people that will suffer didn't create the problem, but once you are part of the problem you HAVE to become part of the solution.

And if you BUY a horse without checking the pedigree, well, it's your own fault.

So, to answer the OP's question, I might BUY an N/h horse, but I would certainly not BREED it.

[JB]

Just to play the devil's advocate on the idea of a registry totally banning all N/H horses (as opposed to the N/N) ones, what would the economics of that be? What would happen to all the N/H stock? Regardless of what one might think about those big bulky beefmasters, er, halter QHs, they still were big business and made up a huge chunk of a huge industry in this country long before a test was even dreamed of. So if you impose a total ban, I am not sure how that's the best or only solution. Seems to me a lot of breeders would be bankrupted and a lot of stock would end up headed for unpleasant places.

That very reasoning is why there was a pretty long grace period between the time it was announced that H/H horses would no longer be registerable (5 years ago?), and when it was done (this year). It's also the reason that N/H horses haven't been banned - yet. The time is coming though. AQHA decided that such a long period was necessary so that current breeders could start breeding/looking for their future breeding stock that are N/N.

[Tory Relic]

In my childhood, the folks that bred Herford (whiteface) cows discovered Bang's disease. A cow with Bangs aborted her calf and then could never conceive again. Many of them died. The problem was traced back to one or two bloodlines, and every head with those genes was sent to slaughter. Bang's disease as far as I know, is a thing of the past. It was tough! My grandaddy lost a sizeable chunk of $$$. But the goal ws to eliminate the disease forever. And the breeder would lose the money sooner or later, anyway.

I think that the APHA should refuse to register breedable stock that comes from the Impressive line without a negative blood test. That would solve the problem, once and for all. I do understand that the people that will suffer didn't create the problem, but once you are part of the problem you HAVE to become part of the solution.

And if you BUY a horse without checking the pedigree, well, it's your own fault.

So, to answer the OP's question, I might BUY an N/h horse, but I would certainly not BREED it.


I agree. I remember Bang's disease. My father had Herefords but was fortunate not to have those bloodlines. He would have done the same thing as your grandfather.

I agree with your solutions.

[Ghazzu]

I would advise working with an HYPP educated vet. And reading the UC Davis research.

Guess that makes me an uneducated one.
Because I wouldn't want an HYPP horse. Nor would I advise someone to knowingly take one on.

[Ghazzu]

Once the problem was identified, the breeding of the Impressive line should have stopped. No ifs, ands, or buts. .

There *are* Impressive-bred horses which are N/N.
Breeding of that *line* needn't be stopped.

[Ghazzu]

In my childhood, the folks that bred Herford (whiteface) cows discovered Bang's disease. A cow with Bangs aborted her calf and then could never conceive again. Many of them died. The problem was traced back to one or two bloodlines, and every head with those genes was sent to slaughter. Bang's disease as far as I know, is a thing of the past. It was tough! My grandaddy lost a sizeable chunk of $$$. But the goal ws to eliminate the disease forever. And the breeder would lose the money sooner or later, anyway.

I think that the APHA should refuse to register breedable stock that comes from the Impressive line without a negative blood test. That would solve the problem, once and for all. I do understand that the people that will suffer didn't create the problem, but once you are part of the problem you HAVE to become part of the solution.

And if you BUY a horse without checking the pedigree, well, it's your own fault.

So, to answer the OP's question, I might BUY an N/h horse, but I would certainly not BREED it.

Umm, Bang's disease is not a genetic problem.
Bang's disease is brucellosis, causative agent Brucella abortus.
It is a zoonotic disease, and can be contracted by humans.
It is much less common nowadays because of a fairly effective USDA test and slaughter eradication program.

[Tory Relic]

Umm, Bang's disease is not a genetic problem.
Bang's disease is brucellosis, causative agent Brucella abortus.
It is a zoonotic disease, and can be contracted by humans.
It is much less common nowadays because of a fairly effective USDA test and slaughter eradication program.

Oh, interesting info. I remember it from when I was a kid and that we didn't have any that had it. So I guess the bloodlines were irrelevant after all. Unlike the HYPP.

[Woodland]

I can only post on MY own expirence - which is quite extensive with Impressive bred horses. Most of which I owned, bred and handled with absolutely NO PROBLEMS prior to the ability to test for HYPP. And we FED them Body builder diets.

The horses I worked with were incredible animals. excellent conformations, great minds, wonderful dispositions and quality athletes. While I have no idea if we "perpetuated" HYPP when we were breeding. I can honestly say we bred some of the very best horses in the show and pleasure owner pens. I never skimped I bred the best to the best. The people who stood Impressive, and the other stallions we bred to were some of the finest horsemen bar none that I have ever met. Responsible and dedicated. They made AQHA versitle and put AQHA in most barns around the USA. They were a blessing to the breed.

To this day I know we did our job as responsible horse breeders. Most of the horses we bred are still around doing the deal staying sound and healthy. I have no idea what their HYPP status is and frankly I do not care. There is far more to those animals than their HYPP status!!!

There are people out there that put HYPP before everything else in a horse. I am not that short sighted. My own horse is by Touch Down Kid and is HYPP N/H. I wanted a BIG pretty good minded fun loving talented horse that I could train up and beat the pants off of every one else in the show pen. And I got him! He happens to be N/H SO WHAT?!? I prefer Impressive bred horses. HYPP was not a concern when I was shopping - because I was looking for far more than a test result.

I Know some of you can not get your heads around that. That puzzles me :confused: I know what I want in a horse. If I can not buy it, I'll breed for it. IF I had a good mare that was worth breeding, and everything was perfect about her but she was N/H - heck yes I'd breed her. MOST Impressive bred horses are N/N. I'll take my chances - Maybe that doesn't suit you, but it suits me just fine. I know I have the education and expirence to do it right.

As far as "who I know in AQHA" - What an odd question! This will be my first AQHA season in nearly 15 years. I have to show open classes only - and that gets boring. We got out of breeding when our stallion retired. Frankly I was PO'd over where the "white rule" was going. I knew AQHA was headed toward dual registration with APHA and it that was a deal breaker for me.

Going back to A.Q.H.A. was a big step for me. I would have preferred only one thing to be different about my guy. And that is that I wish he was an ApHC instead of an AQHA. No not his HYPP status - his breed is what I woud change. I far prefer the ApHC to AQHA. However my perfect horse came without a white scalera. Without mottled skin, and with out any pretty spots. He came with an N/H status - So what!?! It wasn't even a barganing chip for me - I never gave it a second thought. Why? Because nearly ALL N/H horses NEVER have a symptom!


OK - The question was "Would you take posession of an HYPP positive horse" Yes I would - heck I already have and paid $8500 for the privledge of owning him - and I got a DEAL!!!!!

If you haven't owned one - you should not have an opinion - JMHO

[rcloisonne]

The horses I worked with were incredible animals. excellent conformations, great minds, wonderful dispositions and quality athletes.
Were/are your “quality athletes” with “excellent conformations” built like this N/H “World Champion”? :eek: :rolleyes: :dead:

http://www.circle12.com/main.html

If so, in which athletic endeavors did they excel? Posing? :lol:

Until the QH judges stop rewarding horrendously poor leg and foot conformation in N/H horses like this and owners, breeders, fanciers don’t recognize either as a problem - neither will go away.

[JB]

Woodland, nobody questioned how good your animals were. The problem we have is that you stand by incorrect facts about N/H horses and have no problem breeding one.

And we can't have an opinion because we haven't owned a ?/H horse? How silly is that!!! I have seen what an attack can do to a horse and WON'T own one because of it - that's hardly an opinion. But because I HAVE seen an attack, it IS my OPINION that ?/H horses should stop being bred, period. There's zero reason to do so.

It's absolutely your perogative to own and breed ?/H horses, but people like you who spread mistruths that a N/H horse won't have an attack cause huge problems.

[Vivace!]

Nope. Not unless it was just long enough to put down. And that goes for N/H AND H/H for me. Past history doesn't always predict the future... I've known of several who have gone years without an episode or a sign, and then have had one with no warning and nearly hurt people. It's dangerous.

[Daydream Believer]

My main experience with HYPP was from boarding one winter at a QH barn. They had a N/H stallion. He would have an attack every couple of days and occasionally would collapse and have a much more severe attack. He had been asymptomatic until he reached about 6 years of age and then it affected him badly and nothing they did seemed to help him. They had bred several crops from him by then but decided, wisely, to geld him. They hoped it would help keep the frequency of his attacks down as well. They had tried diet and then the expensive drugs neither of which worked. It is a grotesque thing to watch as their skin ripples like they have worms crawling beneath. It was also awful to watch him struggle to breath when he had a severe attack and to see his fear and suffering. I don't know how it ended up but I heard she was trying to give him away as she could not afford to keep him on medication any longer. I would be surprised to find he was not euthanized by now or dead from the disease itself.

Another friend bought a unreg. QH trail horse. She had no idea it had HYPP. They had her several months and loved her. She was perfect for them. One day upon saddling up she collapsed into a severe and sudden attack. They had no idea what was going on and, of course, called the vet and then had to stand their waiting and watched their lovely mare suffer and writhe trying to breathe with muscles doing their weird little dance. They ended up losing her and she died terribly. The necropsy showed that she died of a massive HYPP attack. My friend still cries when she talks about that awful scene.

Don't tell me that it doesn't affect horses often. I am not into QHs at all and here I know of two very severely affected horses. I think that knowingly breeding this genetic problem (yes it is dominant and a 50/50 chance of passing it on), is very irresponsible and cruel to those horses who do become symptomatic and suffer so badly.

To answer the OP's question....NO... I would not take on an HYPP horse knowingly. Not after what I've seen.

[SirNoble]

I am absolutely digusted with ANYONE who would ever breed an H/H or N/H mare or stallion. You should be ashamed of yourselves.

Have you ever seen the look on a 13 year old girl's face when her HYPP N/H time bomb explodes right in front of her?

In fact, why no take a look at one of the MANY memorial videos on youtube made by kids who unknowningly bought and LOVED N/H or H/H horses that died as a result.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r8LdyMPgXBI

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lJqEGYxSRoI&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BWaX9AbniCY

How do you justify that?

Even if you keep the horse its entire life, why would you allow for the chance for it to suffer like this?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rE-kuYDrNEU&feature=related

[katarine]

Woodland will tell you that broodmare is cast, though it's obvious she's not.

Woodland will tell you HYPP is irrelevant, it's obvious that it's not.

Woodland's free to have her horses like she likes 'em, complete with a genetic defect that could kill them. That's her right, folks.

Just remember the conviction of her words, the next time you're shopping for a horse and someone tells you 'oh, ______ is not important, don't listen to all that mess!" Do your research, period.

Woodland, you are so completely wrong on this issue, it's frightening. It just is!

I mentioned 'who you know' b/c you were 'bragging' about being so close to the folks at UC Davis. Look up Dr Murray, and his relationship to AQHA...if he can't medicate and feed an N/H horse and keep her from having attacks- then who can?

[Melelio]

My answer? NO. I would never buy ANYthing with Impressive anywhere in it, regardless of ability, looks, or N status.

To buy it is to perpetuate it, either by having it available to be bred, or by encouraging the breeder to breed more because you bought it.

Too many nice horses out there without a time bomb.

[JB]

My answer? NO. I would never buy ANYthing with Impressive anywhere in it, regardless of ability, looks, or N status.

To buy it is to perpetuate it, either by having it available to be bred, or by encouraging the breeder to breed more because you bought it.

Too many nice horses out there without a time bomb.

Not nearly all Impressive-bred horses have HYPP at all. There are lots and lots of Impressive-bred breeding stock that are N/N. Many I-bred horses are really nice horses. To buy one that isn't ?/H isn't perpetuating the disease, to buy on that IS, is.

[Bluey]

1- We have a glut of horses, all kinds of horses, even Impressive bred horses.

2- If we are still going to breed into that glut, why breed animals that we know have a 50% chance of having a serious inherited disease?

Both of those are ethical questions each person has to answer for themselves.

Those that breed affected horses are the problem.
Those that buy from the people that bred the affected horses are part of the problem.

I have had several Impressive bred, N/N geldings and they were not anything we could use.
I have known several trainers say they don't like them, that Impressive bred horses tend to be more unpredictable and harder to train, "are puppy dog one minute and lose it badly the next" and wash out easily, break into a sweat to the point of getting physically sick from the stress and worry, even if not HyPP positive.
We need to remember that those horses had many other lines in there also, Impressive was not the only one, but it was curious that several with that breeding were the only ones that stood out with those problems.

I still would not buy into the N/H problem today, too many good horses out there for that.

[Proud To Be Spotted]

Going back to A.Q.H.A. was a big step for me. I would have preferred only one thing to be different about my guy. And that is that I wish he was an ApHC instead of an AQHA. No not his HYPP status - his breed is what I woud change. I far prefer the ApHC to AQHA. However my perfect horse came without a white scalera. Without mottled skin, and with out any pretty spots.


And the ApHC will welcome you with open arms. HYPP H/H, no white scalera, no mottled skin, no pretty spots, heck you only need a drop of app blood 12 generations back. The bigger the bulk, the smaller the feet, the massive jowels, teacup muzzles. The ApHC is killing what is left of the breed.

You terrify me with your lack of scientific knowledge. And the ApHC is right there with you.

Owning a HYPP postive horse is a choice. Breeding one is criminal to me.

[Kementari]

If you haven't owned one - you should not have an opinion - JMHO

I've never owned a horse with a parrot mouth - am I allowed an opinion on that whether that is a desirable trait or not? I've never owned a horse with LWOS - so should I not care if foals are born without complete digestive tracts? I've never owned a horse with HERDA - so does that mean I shouldn't find it disgusting that their skin essentially falls off? And is this only true for genetic diseases, or should I not have opinions on EHV-1, laminitis, EIA, or rabies, either? :rolleyes:

I own an Arab. Should I decide to breed her, she will be tested for SCID first. Yet I've never owned a foal with SCID, so I guess really I should NOT test for it, hope she DOES have it, and breed her to a carrier. Then I can have that valuable experience so necessary for me to form an opinion, right?

Honestly, the "if you've never experienced it personally you shouldn't have an opinion" argument has got to be my least favorite of all time (and heaven knows it's got some competition...). It's the last refuge of someone who has no true, ethical justification for their actions, and so cannot defend them any other way.

Breeding a horse with a dominant genetic disorder is WRONG. I don't care what the disorder is, it's WRONG. (Breeding two carriers of a recessive disorder is wrong, too, just for the record.)

What ever happened to "breed the best to the best?" Or do you think that only applies to conformation?

[JB]

I have had several Impressive bred, N/N geldings and they were not anything we could use.
I have known several trainers say they don't like them, that Impressive bred horses tend to be more unpredictable and harder to train, "are puppy dog one minute and lose it badly the next" and wash out easily, break into a sweat to the point of getting physically sick from the stress and worry, even if not HyPP positive.
We need to remember that those horses had many other lines in there also, Impressive was not the only one, but it was curious that several with that breeding were the only ones that stood out with those problems.


Every time I read a "what do you think of Impressive bloodlines" thread, there are 2 very definite camps - those who love it with rare exception, and those who hate it with rare exception. FYI :)

[Bluey]

Every time I read a "what do you think of Impressive bloodlines" thread, there are 2 very definite camps - those who love it with rare exception, and those who hate it with rare exception. FYI :)

I kept trying because a friend had a very, very nice, stable one.
Of course, they never did much with it, but ocassional trail rides and parades, no hard, demanding work.
He was also gorgeous to look at.
I later guessed he may have been an exception.;)

Real problems or not, if you ever think you will have to resell, Impressive bred horses are much harder to sell in many places, if the reputation is real or not.

[cosmos mom]

Kementari- amen sister, amen! couldn't have said it any better ;)

[Annetta]

Count me as another who would NOT take the 'free" horse. I have no hands-on experience with HYPP and that suits me just fine, I intend to keep that status.

And BTW, just because I have no hands on experience with HYPP doesn't mean I cannot have an opinion on it! IMO breeding an H/H horse is criminal; breeding a horse that is N/H is foolish at best (and I'm being nice when I say that) and if you breed that N/H horse to another N/H horse, that too is criminal.

And if you stick your head in the sand and don't bother to test to see what you've got before you breed that Impressive bred horse you think so highly of, then you are just plain WRONG. Irresponsibly wrong!

[Bluey]

Count me as another who would NOT take the 'free" horse. I have no hands-on experience with HYPP and that suits me just fine, I intend to keep that status.

And BTW, just because I have no hands on experience with HYPP doesn't mean I cannot have an opinion on it! IMO breeding an H/H horse is criminal; breeding a horse that is N/H is foolish at best (and I'm being nice when I say that) and if you breed that N/H horse to another N/H horse, that too is criminal.

And if you stick your head in the sand and don't bother to test to see what you've got before you breed that Impressive bred horse you think so highly of, then you are just plain WRONG. Irresponsibly wrong!

It is hard to stay civil towards anyone that breeds, has Impressive bred horses and doesn't test, or breeds H/H, N/H testing ones.
Just the idea that there are such people is like fingernails scraping on a board.:(
With HyPP, we are talking about a very serious, completely avoidable disease.:eek:
There is NO EXCUSE to keep HyPP in our horse's genetic pool.:no:

[jazzrider]

I have had several Impressive bred, N/N geldings and they were not anything we could use. I have known several trainers say they don't like them, that Impressive bred horses tend to be more unpredictable and harder to train, "are puppy dog one minute and lose it badly the next" and wash out easily, break into a sweat to the point of getting physically sick from the stress and worry, even if not HyPP positive. We need to remember that those horses had many other lines in there also, Impressive was not the only one, but it was curious that several with that breeding were the only ones that stood out with those problems.

It's one thing to say that breeding N/H or H/H horses is irresponsible or even criminal. It's quite another to imply that all Impressive bred horses, even those that are N/N, are useless, unpredictable and difficult to train. I don't often bother to comment on these types of threads (deliberate trainwrecks), but it's so sad to see statements like this -- sweeping stereotypes about a breeding line said out of ignorance. But I'm sure you believe the several trainers you know in your little corner of the world can adequately summarize the entire breeding line, and must be right. And I'm sure you believe that all those other breeding lines had no impact at all, and it's genetically viable for all horses who have Impressive in their breeding to have the same, unstable personalities. :no: Just like all TBs are spooky and nervous, all mare's are bitchy, and all warmbloods are stupid. :rolleyes:

Most likely, someone here will believe you. But here's hoping that more intelligent minds will prevail. Thank goodness my sweet natured, calm and well rounded Impressive bred N/N gelding is an exception to your ridiculous rule.

:rolleyes::(

[Bluey]

---"Most likely, someone here will believe you. But here's hoping that more intelligent minds will prevail. Thank goodness my sweet natured, calm and well rounded Impressive bred N/N gelding is an exception to your ridiculous rule."---

I hope that I made it clear that I am talking about horses in hard use, like ranch, feedlot and such, not show horses worked one hour a day, or horses ridden for a few leisure hours down a trail.

I would put the word of several trainers with barns full of horses over those of a few owners with the real nice Impressive bred horses, that were lucky in the genetic lottery to have the good qualities of the Impressive lines only in the horses they now enjoy.

Where do you think all those went that were not good or reliable?
I am sure the market weeded them out, so most people that happen to own one nice one are maybe not aware of those that didn't make it.

We have some questionable bloodlines, for several reasons, in the race horse industry, but since those are handled by professionals, we deal with it.
When those hoses fall in the general public's, amateur hands, many of those don't make it either.

I understand why you defend Impressive bred horses, as there are many good ones, but there are also some that are not, maybe more than in other lines and that is before taking in consideration their HyPP status.
Since the lines are watered down more and more, some day this will be moot question anyway, like saying today that you have a Three Bars or Leo bred horse, yes, several generations back there somewhere.;)

I defend any good ones also, but in general, remember that there is fire where there is smoke and Impressive horse's reputation's smoke does has some fire behind it, like it or not.

[PaulaK]

Normally I stay out of the train wrecks but since my preferred breed is a Quarter Horse and I have owned an Impressive bred (both top and bottom side) I have to comment.

That Impressive bred mare, N/N, admittedly a little quirky, red to boot, had more "try" than any horse I have ever been around in 30+ years of owning horses. Yes, she was not in any type of hard work but only because I'm a confirmed pleasure/trail rider.

I've seen and known Impressive bred horses being used for halter, pleasure, lessons, roping and of course trail. Impressive was so prolific and is in so many bloodlines IMO its wrong to make any sort of generalizations.

A mare being shown now has taken the AQHA World Show in amateur Western Pleasure - 3 years in a row! This year they also won in Western Riding, took 3rd in both Performance Halter and Horsemanship and a 5th place finish in Showmanship. Oh ... she's N/H.
You may want to google Rancho La Chimenea. This ranch is breeding and using Impressive bred horses. The ranch likes the larger, heavier horses for working in their terrain. They were featured in a Western Horseman issue this year.

To the OP: I myself would not own a N/H horse ... just too many variables ... I'm in a boarding situation and can only support (money and emotionally) one horse at a time. Would I own a N/N Impressive bred horse? In a heartbeat!

Merry Christmas to all!

[jazzrider]

I hope that I made it clear that I am talking about horses in hard use, like ranch, feedlot and such, not show horses worked one hour a day, or horses ridden for a few leisure hours down a trail.

I would put the word of several trainers with barns full of horses over those of a few owners with the real nice Impressive bred horses, that were lucky in the genetic lottery to have the good qualities of the Impressive lines only in the horses they now enjoy.

Yup. You believe it. :no:

Impressive bred horses, whether in "hard use" or ridden for a few leisure hours a day, have been bred to other lines and carry the personality traits of both Impressive and the other lines. HYPP has given the Impressive line a bad rap, understandably, but saying that all the horses with that breeding tend to "lose it badly" in your words, or have explosive melt-downs is really just applying the traits of a horse who has HYPP to the general line. Yes, there are stereotypes for all lines and some of the horses do fit them, but Impressive line horse are just as apt as any other horse to pick up the traits of their other lines. So I'm sorry, but your assertion that "there are many good ones, but there are also some that are not, maybe more than in other lines and that is before taking in consideration their HyPP status." is just a sad stereotype, that I would hope that rational minds will ignore.

HYPP is a very sad affliction and the fact that people continue to breed horses that are H/H or N/H is just wrong. But Impressive line N/N horses are as valuable to the QH world as any other line, for both their physical and mental traits.

[Bluey]

---"But Impressive line N/N horses are as valuable to the QH world as any other line, for both their physical and mental traits."---

Sure, those horses fit their niches and those that like them, no one disputes that.
That doesn't keep some of the traits from that line from being disliked by others.

Some people don't like the Hancock or Mr San Peppy line traits, others do.

Still, the traits, more or less desirable ones, are there, if YOU believe it or not.;)

[jetsmom]

It is hard to stay civil towards anyone that breeds, has Impressive bred horses and doesn't test, or breeds H/H, N/H testing ones.
Just the idea that there are such people is like fingernails scraping on a board.:(
With HyPP, we are talking about a very serious, completely avoidable disease.:eek:
There is NO EXCUSE to keep HyPP in our horse's genetic pool.:no:

Hey Bluey!!! There's something we BOTH agree on!!!!!

[Bluey]

Hey Bluey!!! There's something we BOTH agree on!!!!!

That is good.:yes:

I saw an Impressive son being shown at halter be lined up to enter the arena and have an episode.
That was before we knew about HyPP, or that it was in Impressive bred horses.
We assumed he was having some kind of bad tying up episode and/or a seizure.
The trainer got him up and took him back to his stall.
It was scary and sad to watch.:(

[Manes&Tails]

The filly will be here on Thursday and the new owner is reading everything she can about how to care for her.

She will never, ever breed her are send her to slaughter.!!!!!

If needed she will be put down.

The owner had good intentions when breeding the dam of this filly, but did not know of and had never heard of HYPP when she bred the mare. She has now learned about HYPP the hard way.

Beautiful black and white filly, very gentle, in very good heatlh otherwise and will be 3 this coming year.

I know the new owner will do the best for her to have a healty and attack free life.

[Woodland]

The filly will be here on Thursday and the new owner is reading everything she can about how to care for her.

She will never, ever breed her are send her to slaughter.!!!!!

If needed she will be put down.

The owner had good intentions when breeding the dam of this filly, but did not know of and had never heard of HYPP when she bred the mare. She has now learned about HYPP the hard way.

Beautiful black and white filly, very gentle, in very good heatlh otherwise and will be 3 this coming year.

I know the new owner will do the best for her to have a healty and attack free life.

I am glad the filly has a good home! I am sure she will have a very good and productive life with such an educated and dedicated owner.

Some one posted a picture of Terry Bradshaw's horse- it's a half brother to my own horse. I sure wish they would have stood the horse up better in the picture. I'll have to let Terry know he looks calf kneed in the photo. I know the horse quite well! He is very clean and proper in front- deffinately not calf kneed!!!

I love how much alike they are!!! And yes when they are at top show weight they are excellent at posing - :winkgrin: it's what they do when they are at halter competition weight. My horses went on to be hunters, ropers, gamers, trail horses, team penners, 4H all arounds, showmanship, Let's see I am looking at my print outs...points in 16 events besides halter. 127 all around titles- Yes I think they did just fine thanks for asking.

I am done responding to/reading this thread. I know what I know from FIRST HAND expirence (not somthng i think I know,or was told by someone, or read on a hateful website). I will not defend my positions as my expirences have proven me correct repeatedly.

Would you take ownership of an HYPP Postive horse? YES -I purchased a lovely gelding in May for $8500 he is N/H and non symptomatic just like MOST N/H horses I got a DEAL on him and I look forward to winning with him this coming season. If he were mare, Yep I would breed hm in a heart beat! He is darn near as perfect an animal as I have ever met and i am blessed to own him.

Tootles!!!!:cool:

[Kementari]

Some one posted a picture of Terry Bradshaw's horse- it's a half brother to my own horse. I sure wish they would have stood the horse up better in the picture. I'll have to let Terry know he looks calf kneed in the photo. I know the horse quite well! He is very clean and proper in front- deffinately not calf kneed!!!

Also ill-proportioned, post-legged, and straight-pasterned - and I think upright in his (tiny) hooves, though I can't tell as they've hidden them in all the sizable pics.... :no:

[MistyBlue]

That's what I've never ever understood about AQHA Halter. I would assume the ideal Halter horse would have ideal conformation. Yet most of the Halter champion horses I see advertised have much less than ideal conformation...actually...absolutely unuseable conformation. I can understand why the halter breeders breed for and are attracted to conformation that would be considered bad in any breed because the judges reward the heck out of it...what I don't get is why the judges reward a horse just for muscle tone attached to a badly conformed frame.
The hind legs on Terry Bradshaw's horse are horrendous. But they probably are well loved by judges. :confused:

[Bluey]

---"If he were mare, Yep I would breed hm in a heart beat! He is darn near as perfect an animal as I have ever met and i am blessed to own him."---

Even if your Impressive bred horse was a world champion, if it is not N/N, it should NOT be bred, period.

Sad, just sad, for someone to breed with a 50% chance of getting an HyPP affected horse.
I hope the AQHA hurries up with making only HyPP Impressive bred horses testing N/N registerable.:yes:

This is not a question of disagreeing, it is one of being a responsible, ethical person, or not.:(

[JB]

The owner had good intentions when breeding the dam of this filly, but did not know of and had never heard of HYPP when she bred the mare. She has now learned about HYPP the hard way.
This is EXACTLY what happens when people blatently disregard the FACTS of HYPP that are out there - breeding stock ends up in the hands of people who don't know what they don't know, and it perpetuates.

I know the new owner will do the best for her to have a healty and attack free life.
You know she will do her best, but unfortunately, the best isn't always good enough. I sincerely hope this horse lives an attack-free life, for all concerned.

I know what I know from FIRST HAND expirence (not somthng i think I know,or was told by someone, or read on a hateful website). I will not defend my positions as my expirences have proven me correct repeatedly.
Wow, amazing, defending mis-information. It's no wonder the disease still exists. I hope you are never responsible for the breeding of a ?/H horse who has an attack and falls one a little girl one day :no:

You REALLY need to go read this
http://www.vgl.ucdavis.edu/service/horse/hypp.html - I mean seriously, if you can't believe one of the best universities on this, who can ya trust?

Homozygous horses are affected more severely than heterozygous horses.
Just in case you can't figure this out - this means that heterozygous horses CAN BE affected

HYPP is inherited as an autosomal dominant trait, which means it can occur in both males and females and only one copy of the gene is required to produce the disease.

Some people also think that if a horse does not show any signs up to a certain age, it does not carry the trait. Unfortunately, this is not the case. Once again, horses with HYPP are affected for life. There was a stallion and a broodmare with HYPP who did not show signs of the disease until age eight and 15, and both horses only experienced one isolated attack.

[findeight]

Hoot, my concern here is that your friend means well but what happens if something happens to her?

That IS a mare after all, potentially another person ignorant of HYPP will end up with her despite her best intentions.

Happen to like the Impressive traits for what I like to do with mine, this whole thing was really too bad. He put alot of good minded and good performing babies on the ground besides those bloated beef balls on tiny feet-he didn't do that, we did. I agree they would not be my first choice for ranch work but I don't do that anyway. Very nice all around show types, pretty too most of the time. There are LOTS of his decendents that do not carry it and I would certainly consider purchasing any of his N/Ns if I ever went back to the AQHA world.

I just am not sure friend really understands the risk of anything but an N/N here with a mare that can reproduce. May not understand the financial side of owning one if she does start to show symptoms as well.

[Manes&Tails]

Hoot, my concern here is that your friend means well but what happens if something happens to her?

That IS a mare after all, potentially another person ignorant of HYPP will end up with her despite her best intentions.

Happen to like the Impressive traits for what I like to do with mine, this whole thing was really too bad. He put alot of good minded and good performing babies on the ground besides those bloated beef balls on tiny feet-he didn't do that, we did. I agree they would not be my first choice for ranch work but I don't do that anyway. Very nice all around show types, pretty too most of the time. There are LOTS of his decendents that do not carry it and I would certainly consider purchasing any of his N/Ns if I ever went back to the AQHA world.

I just am not sure friend really understands the risk of anything but an N/N here with a mare that can reproduce. May not understand the financial side of owning one if she does start to show symptoms as well.

We have already made a plan if something happens to the new owner, I will either take the mare and have her put down if she has attacks, if not will own and care for her, or she will got back to the breeder. We made a pack that she is never to be sold, bred are sent to slaughter.

The new owner has shown, trained horses for 30 years and knows that this filly can not be sold nor bred, ever.

Thank you for your info.

[starrunner]

I do not own a horse with HYPP nor will I ever.

However, I work at a boarding barn where there are two stallions with HYPP (N/H). Do I agree with the owners standing him? No. However, at least they require mares to be N/N. I personally would geld both. One has a nastier temperment and I would probably euthanize him.

The other is a doll. He's nice and gentle. Broke to ride english & western. I would geld him too.

In the barn situation, both are asymptomatic (knock on wood), but both have had episodes at shows and/or when being taken to new places. That thought scares me. One of my biggest fears is walking into the barn and having either stallion down with an episode.

But heck, they went and showed and have points and credentials and those cute little baby doll halter heads. That means they should be bred right even though they have a life threatening disease? (sorry sarcasm)

So would I take a N/H horse. No. Too many nice horses that need a home without me developing more ulcers worrying about the welfare of that horse, especially if I wanted to show/ride/etc.

H/H horse...not ever, ever. Well..maybe I'd go the take horse and euthanize it route.


I wish you the best of luck with the b&w filly. The nutritionist in our area made sure the stallions' diets here were good for HYPP horses and all that jazz..and that seems to be helping...so far.

[JB]

However, I work at a boarding barn where there are two stallions with HYPP (N/H). Do I agree with the owners standing him? No. However, at least they require mares to be N/N.
If their stallion is AQHA, and they want the resulting foals to be AQHA, then they are turning down ?/H mares for monetary reasons, not moral reasons. If they produce a H/H foal, it can't be registered.

[LockeMeadows]

One of my clients has a 12yo HYPP N/H gelding. He is in full training and regularly jumps over 4'. I, personally, have limited experience with the disease, but I did a lot of research these past few months. We currently have the horse on a normal diet and he gets alfalfa just like the rest of our show horses. This horse is of typical muscle mass and has never had an episode. I do find myself keeping a close eye on him, but he has blossomed at our farm and is showing on a regular basis in the Hunters.

[starrunner]

I agree with the monetary reason part, however, they breed mostly Paint horses and Paint mares. I believe APHA doesn't have the same stand as AQHA, however, please feel free to correct me if I'm wrong. I don't know as much as I'd like about APHA.

[leap_of_faith01]

Sorry to ask a stupid question but what's the difference between H/H and N/H?

[clanter]

Sorry to ask a stupid question but what's the difference between H/H and N/H?

read this
http://www.vgl.ucdavis.edu/service/horse/hypp.html

[Rebe]

All right, let me ask the next question certain to start this maelstrom spinning again:

If I were having a pre-purchase exam done on a quarter horse or QH-cross of uncertain breeding, should I have a DNA test done?

There are plenty of these types out there in the sport-horse world...

OK, discuss amongst yourselves, while I duck and run for cover. ;)

[Bluey]

You can spot some Impressive bred horses from far away, they have a specific look, even in paint colors.
That look is what those that like the Impressive traits want.
I just wish they stuck to N/N individuals only, but they beg to differ, evidently.

Those grade horses that have the look, you may want to avoid, as someone may have tested them and conveniently "lost" the papers if not N/N.

There are other good looking grade horses, so testing would be up to you, if you suspect the horse in front of you is Impressive bred or not.

The few I had were N/N, so can't say what it is to live with a symptomatic horse.
My neighbor's son had one, bought as a grade ranch horse, but obviously Impressive bred and he had attacks.
He eventually sold him, right before HyPP came to light and there was testing for it.

With all the good registered horses out there today, why take a chance on what an obviously nicely looking horse is bred like and why is he selling without papers?

[Kementari]

If I knew or suspected the horse was Impressive-bred, I would absolutely test. Otherwise, well, there are all sorts of things out there that a prospective horse COULD have that we don't test for as a matter of routine. :yes:

[JB]

All right, let me ask the next question certain to start this maelstrom spinning again:

If I were having a pre-purchase exam done on a quarter horse or QH-cross of uncertain breeding, should I have a DNA test done?

There are plenty of these types out there in the sport-horse world...

OK, discuss amongst yourselves, while I duck and run for cover. ;)

There shouldn't be any need to run and duck here. ANY horse that even remotely has the potential to have QH blood in him should be tested if you want to avoid a ?/H horse. For me, this means anything of unknown breeding. I mean heck, a QH/Belgian cross can end up looking an awful lot like a regular ol' Belgian. There are plenty of these types all around, especially the backyard world.

[graywolf]

You can spot some Impressive bred horses from far away, they have a specific look, even in paint colors.
.

What is that look that you can spot from far away? You might be right but I find this an interesting comment.
I have a Impressive bred mare, N/N but she has Two Eyed Jack/Oklahoma Star breeding on the bottom. Pure ranch horse on the bottom. She does have those small bad feet of the Impressive line.

I wish AQHA and ApHA would not allow any stallions to be bred that are H/N at all. In fact I wish that the AQHA didn't like those over sized useless halter horses at all. I have shown my horse in Western Pleasure but I hated how that slow lope so I stopped that. I wish I could show but in what class. I have a beautifully moving horse that is looks like a QH not a TB for english. Hate the movement of WP...not bred for reining. anyway I digress.

[findeight]

Guess the Impressive "look" is best described as heavy body but well proportioned with a very deep hip and refinement in head and neck...and the tail set just a smidge too high if they favor the original version. Tend to be exceptional in the color department too. For whatever reason they are the brightest chestnuts and most attractive bays, most with a little chrome. Good height, not too small.
Exceptional expression in the ears and eyes. Tend to be a little on the hot side for a QH

The tiny, crappy feet are a later modification enhanced with...er...lets say customized trimming. His own sons that I was around did not have particularly bad feet.

There is just something about them that screams show horse. I like them even though we are getting farther and farther away from himself. But wouldn't want anything but N/N.

So, anyway, if you are looking at a "grade" with good body size and exceptional refinement in the head and neck wrapped up in a striking color? You could be looking at an Impressive.

[Bluey]

Guess the Impressive "look" is best described as heavy body but well proportioned with a very deep hip and refinement in head and neck...and the tail set just a smidge too high if they favor the original version. Tend to be exceptional in the color department too. For whatever reason they are the brightest chestnuts and most attractive bays, most with a little chrome. Good height, not too small.
Exceptional expression in the ears and eyes. Tend to be a little on the hot side for a QH

The tiny, crappy feet are a later modification enhanced with...er...lets say customized trimming. His own sons that I was around did not have particularly bad feet.

There is just something about them that screams show horse. I like them even though we are getting farther and farther away from himself. But wouldn't want anything but N/N.

So, anyway, if you are looking at a "grade" with good body size and exceptional refinement in the head and neck wrapped up in a striking color? You could be looking at an Impressive.

I would add a relatively small and chiseled head, with a little white to the round eyes.
They tend to have a smaller throatlatch, but not very long neck that ties in medium to higher and thick at the bottom.
Many have the big hind end, some practically with a double muscled definition, but those big behinds are more sticking out there, not tying in long and low.
They have medium to very good bone and nice flat joints.
Many are the brightest lighter sorrels with plenty of white or very white grays.
Many are also not the most athletic horses around and that is what some trainers don't like.
The ones that are of course are the ones that do show well in performance.

Those Impressive bred horses that show the physical characteristics of that line are hard to miss.
You can go to a big qh sale and pick them out easily, before you look at the catalog and be right 100% of the time.

[SuperOtto]

Look at the "video attack" The horse is cast in it's stall NOT having a neurological "attack". When uneducated people who are "haters" have an agenda they will scream until someone listens.



If you seriously think that horse is cast in her stall, then you have never seen a horse that is actually cast.

[Bluey]

Look at the "video attack" The horse is cast in it's stall NOT having a neurological "attack". When uneducated people who are "haters" have an agenda they will scream until someone listens.



If you seriously think that horse is cast in her stall, then you have never seen a horse that is actually cast.

I don't really understand what you mean, but in this HyPP discussion there is no one "hating".

We are talking about a serious disease that we can test for and avoid perpetuating.

As for those that like or dislike Impressive bred horses, other than their HyPP status if breeding them, that is like with any other lines.
Each one of us have our preferences and likes and dislikes, depending on what we want from our horses and that doesn't mean we "hate" those we don't have use for.

[Kementari]

SuperOtto was quoting one of Woodland's posts. ;)

And I agree with him/her - that horse is definitely NOT cast. What I kept wondering, though, was why someone didn't get that poor foal out of there in the beginning - it could have been seriously injured or killed. :no:

[HTRSANDJMPRS]

Of course I would. The best three horses I ever had were N/H and we had a H/H as well. Just a different diet and different management than your other horses can make all the difference in the world. Two of those horses NEVER seizured in their life and went to the Nationals, Worlds, all over the country, 24 hr. trailer rides and never had a problem. Really just depends on the horse. Some are trainwrecks, some will never cause a problem. Just like any medical issue with a horse, it can go either way. If you aren't going to show it, keep it on acetazolamide...great help for HYPP.

[Woodland]

One of my clients has a 12yo HYPP N/H gelding. He is in full training and regularly jumps over 4'. I, personally, have limited experience with the disease, but I did a lot of research these past few months. We currently have the horse on a normal diet and he gets alfalfa just like the rest of our show horses. This horse is of typical muscle mass and has never had an episode. I do find myself keeping a close eye on him, but he has blossomed at our farm and is showing on a regular basis in the Hunters.


I just returned from a local schooling show with my N/H superior halter gelding(retired). He is a 6yr old - this was his first trip in the hunter ring. And as expected he WON every class. We did working and open divisions and of course won both the divisions. Like MOST N/H horses he is symptom free, and like MOST N/H horses will most likely NEVER have a symptom of any sort. BTW he was the only QH there - the rest were TB's & WB's We just blew the competition away !

When bought my big muscle bound beauty last spring it was with the goal of making him a superior hunter. He has the mind and temperment and perfect conformation. Bringing him along under saddle while reducing his halter show ring muscle mass was a pure joy! He is still a LOOKER, but like the Gov of CA not in competition weight any longer. Now he is a real athlete. Gorgeous. Perfectly proportioned. Adorable Impressive head - just perfection! I could have doubled my investment today - but I will keep him - I know he was a great investment!

Me and My N/H guy will see you from the winner's circle ! :yes:

[JB]

Woodland, nice job. However, you're still missing the point. You keep proving the worth and value and greatness of your horses, none of which was ever questioned.

Now you're saying that "most" N/H horses don't have symptoms - can you point to statistics on this? This contradicts what you said early on, that N/H horses were carriers only, never developing symptoms.

[Bluey]

I just returned from a local schooling show with my N/H superior halter gelding(retired). He is a 6yr old - this was his first trip in the hunter ring. And as expected he WON every class. We did working and open divisions and of course won both the divisions. Like MOST N/H horses he is symptom free, and like MOST N/H horses will most likely NEVER have a symptom of any sort. BTW he was the only QH there - the rest were TB's & WB's We just blew the competition away !

When bought my big muscle bound beauty last spring it was with the goal of making him a superior hunter. He has the mind and temperment and perfect conformation. Bringing him along under saddle while reducing his halter show ring muscle mass was a pure joy! He is still a LOOKER, but like the Gov of CA not in competition weight any longer. Now he is a real athlete. Gorgeous. Perfectly proportioned. Adorable Impressive head - just perfection! I could have doubled my investment today - but I will keep him - I know he was a great investment!

Me and My N/H guy will see you from the winner's circle ! :yes:

Congratulations, you both did well.:cool:

Since he is six and HyPP N/H, you have long time to go yet to decide if he is really asymptomatic for HyPP or not.
Many don't show until later than 6.
Keeping up with the medications and special diet, just in case, would be prudent.:yes:

Hopefully he will be doing well for you for long time.:)

[clevengerpaints]

I own a N/H Mare. She is my most favorite horse in the world and wouldnt trade her for anything.. I wasnt informed about hypp before I baught her and learned about it after getting her more.. I baught her knowing she was N/H just didnt understand it all at the time.. She has never had an attack in her life. and knock on wood, I pray she never does either. If she did though and there was no hope for a healthy comfortable life for her I would do the right thing and put her down humanly. But until that day ever comes if ever Im willing to have her as my companion and love her forever. Giver her a good chance at life. She is bassicly a big pasture pet, that I plan on showing at halter this spring if all goes well.. I dont ride any of my horses, dont know why.. just have them to have them.. lol.. never really have the time to ride.. but still love owning them..

its all up to you.. if your willing to take a chance on her then go for it.. but if not then do not take her..

[creseida]

Breeding wise if the mare is N/H I would have absolutely no reservations about breeding her...

And that would make you an irresponsible breeder. Period.