PDA

View Full Version : Call Me Clifton for sale?



TexasTB
Dec. 19, 2007, 09:51 PM
Anyone know why he is for sale? Is Donna no longer riding him?

BigRuss1996
Dec. 19, 2007, 09:57 PM
Not sure..... but according to his USEA record for 2007 his last event was a ** in August. He also has an owner that isn't the rider so maybe the owner wants to sell him??




Anyone know why he is for sale? Is Donna no longer riding him?

TexasTB
Dec. 19, 2007, 10:06 PM
The owner is Frances Stead, who runs Clifton Eventers over in New Zealand (www.eventers.co.nz). They make a business off of producing upper level potential horses, so Call Me Clifton has been somewhat of a poster child for them (and rightfully so!), which is why I'm surprised by their decision to sell him.

yellow rose
Dec. 19, 2007, 10:12 PM
you might have just answered your own question

it's a business

he's a four star horse and he ain't getting any younger..

Shrapnel
Dec. 19, 2007, 10:17 PM
Hey All -- I was a working student for Donna and got to work around webbie quite a bit.

This year, Donna didnt have a lot of success with him at Advanced and feels that he would be happier as a 2 star horse or something like that.

Donna is very good at feeling what is right for a horse at the right time. I know she loves webs dearly, but knows he would be happier at a lower level.

Boy, if I had the money....;)

Edited to add: Which website was he posted for sale on??

TexasTB
Dec. 19, 2007, 10:28 PM
Thanks Shrapnel :)

Good for her to recognize that her horse wasnt happy and make the tough decision to move him back. They were fun to watch though:yes:

InVA
Dec. 20, 2007, 10:49 AM
you might have just answered your own question

it's a business

he's a four star horse and he ain't getting any younger..


he's not that old is he? he was going advanced when he was 7...

snoopy
Dec. 20, 2007, 11:06 AM
he's not that old is he? he was going advanced when he was 7...

And probably why he doesn't want to "play four star" at 12.:(

pwynnnorman
Dec. 20, 2007, 12:32 PM
Ouch, Snoop.

olympicdreams04
Dec. 20, 2007, 12:56 PM
I agree, Snoopy. I understand the pressures on riders by owners and sponsors and the eventing community in general to push horses younger and younger. That doesn't mean I agree with it.

snoopy
Dec. 20, 2007, 01:01 PM
Ouch, Snoop.


That comment was not made to anyone in particular but rather my distain for horses getting to ADV at such an early age....it is hard work and it does not surprise me that thay do not want to "play" during what should be their "peak years". This was discussed already on another thread regarding this very issue.
So my appologies to anyone offended by my remark...it was more about the culture.:sadsmile:

bornfreenowexpensive
Dec. 20, 2007, 01:20 PM
That comment was not made to anyone in particular but rather my distain for horses getting to ADV at such an early age....it is hard work and it does not surprise me that thay do not want to "play" during what should be their "peak years". This was discussed already on another thread regarding this very issue.
So my appologies to anyone offended by my remark...it was more about the culture.:sadsmile:


I agree as well. I think Donna is a lovely rider and a very nice person....but I do not understand the culture of pushing young horses to Adv. at 7 or even 8. Even if it is easy for them. I don't think that they need to be pounded on forever at Novice and training....but there is also no need to be at those levels so young. Let them hang out at Prelim....do a few more dressage and jumper shows....and let their bodies (and minds) finish maturing and get stronger to handle the stress. I also do not see any reason for 5 year olds to be running Prelim. I'm all for backing young horses and taking them out and about but there is no need to be running Prelim at 5 or even a CCI* at 6.....and yet now, if you don't, people think your horse doesn't have International talent. Not a good culture.

pwynnnorman
Dec. 20, 2007, 01:22 PM
Oh, I know what you meant. I actually appreciated your bluntness (and agree, although I, too, don't mean that as a disparagement of anyone--market forces and all that make it a tough decision sometimes, I'm sure).

grzywinskia
Dec. 20, 2007, 01:40 PM
I agree as well. I think Donna is a lovely rider and a very nice person....but I do not understand the culture of pushing young horses to Adv. at 7 or even 8. Even if it is easy for them. I don't think that they need to be pounded on forever at Novice and training....but there is also no need to be at those levels so young. Let them hang out at Prelim....do a few more dressage and jumper shows....and let their bodies (and minds) finish maturing and get stronger to handle the stress. I also do not see any reason for 5 year olds to be running Prelim. I'm all for backing young horses and taking them out and about but there is no need to be running Prelim at 5 or even a CCI* at 6.....and yet now, if you don't, people think your horse doesn't have International talent. Not a good culture.

I believe that all horses should be treated as individuals. I have a 5 year old mare running Prelim. I try my best to take care of her (monthly adequan, aquatred, adequate vacations, etc.) But, she LOVES her job. When she in on these vacations for longer than 2 weeks she starts acting pissy and hateful and obviously wants to get back to work. That being said, she could probably move up this spring, but I am doing to do more Prelims and CIC's with her for experience and probably will not move her up until late 08 (if then). I don't run her that much and I am hoping she will last a long time. But, I'd be pretty mad at myself if I didn't let her reach her full potential.

eqsiu
Dec. 20, 2007, 01:40 PM
market forces and all that make it a tough decision sometimes, I'm sure

Which sucks. I always thought you were on the fast track going advanced at 10 and **** at 12, then competing there until 18 or so. I was obviously delusional. And it does explain why I had so much trouble finding a buyer for an 18 year old training packer that I leased her out instead.

snoopy
Dec. 20, 2007, 01:46 PM
[QUOTE=eqsiu;2881276]Which sucks. I always thought you were on the fast track going advanced at 10 and **** at 12, then competing there until 18 or so. I was obviously delusional.QUOTE]



No, just living in a long gone era!!!:(

deltawave
Dec. 20, 2007, 02:07 PM
They can love their job without going advanced at age 7, can't they? I mean, the horse doesn't know what color flags are on the jumps.

I find it absolutely mind-boggling that anyone can have the sheer talent to take a young horse up the levels that quickly and that there seem to be so many horses who do it "with ease", but you do have to wonder just how many "upper level years" any given horse has and whether the "rate of progression" has any impact on their durability in a mental sense, not to mention the physical.

bornfreenowexpensive
Dec. 20, 2007, 02:21 PM
I believe that all horses should be treated as individuals. I have a 5 year old mare running Prelim. I try my best to take care of her (monthly adequan, aquatred, adequate vacations, etc.) But, she LOVES her job. When she in on these vacations for longer than 2 weeks she starts acting pissy and hateful and obviously wants to get back to work. That being said, she could probably move up this spring, but I am doing to do more Prelims and CIC's with her for experience and probably will not move her up until late 08 (if then). I don't run her that much and I am hoping she will last a long time. But, I'd be pretty mad at myself if I didn't let her reach her full potential.


I'm not saying that you don't let them reach their potential or not to keep them working.... Many horses don't do well without a job (hell my three year old needs a job or he starts hurting himself)....I just prefer to find them a job that is less pounding until they have matured more. Run training level, go to a hunter show, dressage show, do a hunter pace....keep them thinking but just make them wait a little longer before adding in the full pounding of eventing at the higher levels. That same horse will likely be just as competitive (if not more) at 6 or 7 for the wait....and the wait will not mean he will not make Adv.

snoopy
Dec. 20, 2007, 02:22 PM
But, I'd be pretty mad at myself if I didn't let her reach her full potential.


And THAT, ladies and gentleman, IS the culture we are living in these days.:eek:

tommygirl
Dec. 20, 2007, 02:22 PM
of taking more time than you want to when it comes to moving up the levels. It is easy to think your ready to move up, but it is not easy to face all the different questions and terrain issues at 3 or 4 shows. I don't like to move up from training to prelim unless my horse is placing in the top 3 consistently, and has had ample experience at that level.

I was told once that "If you can remember EVERY jump and EXACTLY what happened at every jump on the course, and you found it very easy, move up" - or something like that!

mbj
Dec. 20, 2007, 02:29 PM
Kudos to his rider for sensing what is in her horse's best interest and doing it.

I think knowing your individual horse is the key. We had a horse who developed very early, and was actually safer and saner at the upper levels. But by 14 or so he too was mentally ready to drop down some levels. He was sound but that much effort (****) can take a toll. He was happy as a clam and stayed in the game moving a young rider from a pony through training to advanced until age 18 when he got EPM and Lyme,then went another season at novice with an adult ammie, loving the game still, but then got a hind suspensory injury. He is retired as a hack and still pretty sound at 21 and REALLY misses competing. He did a *** at whatever the youngest allowable age is, and soundness never did seem to be a problem for him.

snoopy
Dec. 20, 2007, 02:39 PM
Kudos to his rider for sensing what is in her horse's best interest and doing it.

I think knowing your individual horse is the key. We had a horse who developed very early, and was actually safer and saner at the upper levels. But by 14 or so he too was mentally ready to drop down some levels. He was sound but that much effort (****) can take a toll. He did a *** at whatever the youngest allowable age is, and soundness never did seem to be a problem for him.

Yes I agree that Donna made a very classy decision. But it says something about today's culture and that horses are mentally tired from all the work that it takes to reach (and stay at) such high levels at an early age.

deltawave
Dec. 20, 2007, 02:42 PM
I wonder how much she's selling him for? Boy, how cool would THAT be.... :)

mbj
Dec. 20, 2007, 02:46 PM
I imagine today's "culture" is at least in part driven by how expensive it is to train and compete an upper level horse. Requires deep pockets generally.The courses more technical, the care better in many ways, but also more expensive, land has skyrocketed, etc etc.

bornfreenowexpensive
Dec. 20, 2007, 02:55 PM
I imagine today's "culture" is at least in part driven by how expensive it is to train and compete an upper level horse. Requires deep pockets generally.The courses more technical, the care better in many ways, but also more expensive, land has skyrocketed, etc etc.


I think it is also because more and more riders are "pro" making a living off of riding and training. Where in years past (long ago), most "pros" either were born with deep pockets or married deep pockets. Not that this is (or was) a bad thing....just what I see. I think that your horse was one of the "freak of nature" and I think that he was also well managed....but now, people are pushing more and more horses so instead of it being unusual for a horse to be at those levels young....it seems that it is generally accepted that any horse with an ounce of talent should be at Adv. by 8.

eqsiu
Dec. 20, 2007, 03:00 PM
And THAT, ladies and gentleman, IS the culture we are living in these days.:eek:

Well, one must reach full potential as early as possible. A horse only lives ~30 years you know.

mbj
Dec. 20, 2007, 03:01 PM
well, he is little and easy on himself and the vets did say he was bionic :).
But while he did in his day a couple *** and **** stars a year, he also had his shoes pulled and went back to my mom's farm for the winter to hack and be a horse.He also had Bruce conditioning him, and Bruce is brilliant at that. Nowadays horses have Florida season and can compete year round. That can take a toll.

snoopy
Dec. 20, 2007, 03:04 PM
But while he did in his day a couple *** and **** stars a year, he also had his shoes pulled and went back to my mom's farm for the winter to hack and be a horse. Nowadays horses have Florida season and can compete year round. That can take a toll.


Another part of the problem. Too much to soon...Too much to often.

Shrapnel
Dec. 20, 2007, 04:25 PM
Wasn't House Doctor (Phillip Dutton's horse) 8 when he competed at the Sydney Olympics?

snoopy
Dec. 20, 2007, 04:29 PM
Wasn't House Doctor (Phillip Dutton's horse) 8 when he competed at the Sydney Olympics?


Yes....;)

JER
Dec. 20, 2007, 04:32 PM
Just a comment on the culture.

In the UK, it used to be the case that eventers would get a new crop of 6 year-olds in their barns to start eventing. There wasn't much in the way of sub-Novice (3'6") eventing as the PN designation is relatively new in the UK.

These 6 year-olds would have done some hunting or hunter trials or basic clear-round showjumping. They'd be ready to start eventing at 6 at Novice.

Occasionally, a horse would upgrade very quickly -- in the UK you had to upgrade based on points -- or the rider could choose to rack up time faults on XC to keep the horse from upgrading. A few very notable horses would upgrade to Advanced at 6, like Mary King's King William.

A 9 year-old in a CCI**** was considered young but also it was the norm for an international career to be winding down by age 14. Ian Stark usually retired his top horses while sound at 14 and they'd go back to their owners to take out hunting.

Joint injections and all sort of veterinary stuff make it possible to keep the horses out there longer but it doesn't mean we should have to keep them running.

Like others have said, it does depend on the horse. My old horse did Prelim till 19 but we evented him rather infrequently and did not have him on the modern vet regimen. He also hunted a lot since age 5 and took 2 month-long total vacations each year.

I applaud this rider's decision to keep her horse where he's comfortable. I hope his new owner does the same.

purplnurpl
Dec. 20, 2007, 04:35 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by grzywinskia
But, I'd be pretty mad at myself if I didn't let her reach her full potential.


And THAT, ladies and gentleman, IS the culture we are living in these days.:eek:

I think Grzywinskia was saying that she would be really upset if it were her mare's extra- ordinary progress that with time kept her from reaching her full potiential.

NOT that keeping her at lower levels for a longer time would keep her from reaching full potential <meaning she must push now>.

With horses like these, there is usually no pushing involved. ;)

snoopy
Dec. 20, 2007, 04:39 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by grzywinskia
But, I'd be pretty mad at myself if I didn't let her reach her full potential.



I think Grzywinskia was saying that she would be really upset if it were her mare's extra- ordinary progress that with time kept her from reaching her full potiential.

NOT that keeping her at lower levels for a longer time would keep her from reaching full potential <meaning she must push now>.

With horses like these, there is usually no pushing involved. ;)


The horse is five....the clock ain't a ticken just yet.;)

purplnurpl
Dec. 20, 2007, 04:45 PM
Occasionally, a horse would upgrade very quickly -- in the UK you had to upgrade based on points -- or the rider could choose to rack up time faults on XC to keep the horse from upgrading. A few very notable horses would upgrade to Advanced at 6, like Mary King's King William.

A 9 year-old in a CCI**** was considered young but also it was the norm for an international career to be winding down by age 14. Ian Stark usually retired his top horses while sound at 14 and they'd go back to their owners to take out hunting.

Joint injections and all sort of veterinary stuff make it possible to keep the horses out there longer but it doesn't mean we should have to keep them running.



Thank you.
You mean if they retire before the age of 18 they might be sound?


and then lets not forget to mention the...dun, dun, dun...THE TEAM.
Everything that everyone yups about is what our Team is made of. Horses are still lasting.

It's all about reading what is right or wrong in each equine's body and brain.
Donna has done well. We thank her for taking her horse's feelings into consideration.

pwynnnorman
Dec. 20, 2007, 05:19 PM
Well, and there are certainly examples of young Adv horses who have longer careers: I always mention Poggio and McKinleigh, although the latter is still in his prime.

But I do think some may get lucky while others luck out when it comes to the physical and mental maturation process and its effect on the horses' careers. I can't help but consider the uber-talent dressage horse who can play at tempi changes at age six, but doesn't develop the musculator amd mindset needed to be really pushed for brilliant for several more years.

To my mind, dressage horses exemplify how horses are clearly not "done growing" at age five or six. And so if there's still more mental and physical development to lay down, going Advanced seems a huge risk for a six-year-old, although being in super-experienced hands must lessen those odds considerably. Someone once encouraged me to think about how many horses don't make it for every one that does. They didn't have any figures on that, but just made me think about it. As a result, that's the "risk" that comes to my mind concerning this subject.

Indeed, as I think more about it, consider the horse for whom courses do come easily. Mistakes can be made by even the most talented, horse and rider alike, right? But a mistake at Prelim might make the confident horse think a bit more, while a mistake at Advanced might end its career. Wouldn't it be better to give the horse real and valuable mileage regardless of its talent? Are two, three, four competitions enough to see it all? What if it never rained during any of them (or any other of the myriad conditions that can effect the experience)?

IfWishesWereHorses
Dec. 20, 2007, 06:52 PM
Although Donna has some input into when and where her horses run, the owner in this case, certainly makes the decisions on when the horses move up.

He may not be as expensive as what you may think either ;-)

InVA
Dec. 20, 2007, 10:48 PM
Wasn't House Doctor (Phillip Dutton's horse) 8 when he competed at the Sydney Olympics?

yeah, and where is HE now? Hasn't been around for some time... Doc would be about 16 now.. younger than Custom made was when he won the olympics...

3Day-Eventer
Dec. 20, 2007, 11:12 PM
I just have to say that I cant imagine ever taking one of my 5 year olds Preliminary. What is the rush? I ALWAYS wait until they are at LEAST 7. It is so taxing on their minds at that level. Its like 12 year olds going to college. Sure... there are a few that do it, but they are just a bit odd, and different for life, dont you think???? What is the harm in waiting?
I wish more people would just slow everything down and give the horses time to mature. Its a very sad culture we live in now. Everyone wants instant gratification.

PIP
Dec. 21, 2007, 07:14 AM
I believe that all horses should be treated as individuals. I have a 5 year old mare running Prelim. I try my best to take care of her (monthly adequan, aquatred, adequate vacations, etc.) But, she LOVES her job. When she in on these vacations for longer than 2 weeks she starts acting pissy and hateful and obviously wants to get back to work. That being said, she could probably move up this spring, but I am doing to do more Prelims and CIC's with her for experience and probably will not move her up until late 08 (if then). I don't run her that much and I am hoping she will last a long time. But, I'd be pretty mad at myself if I didn't let her reach her full potential.

even if it is not what is best for us as riders or what we want to do as riders. A horse might need a job but to suggest that they will only be happy if they are speeding up the levels is ridiculous. To start at N in April 07 and make a move up to P in October 07? On a 5 year old? All under the guise of "letting her reach her full potential".

Perhaps the reality is that some riders are ready to move up and are doing it "on the backs" (no pun intended) of some talented young horses that are not being advanced at the pace that is best for them but going at the pace the rider wants them to go so that they'll have an advanced horse to ride. Rather short sighted IMHO and another example of the selfish society we have become.

deltawave
Dec. 21, 2007, 08:41 AM
One of the axioms of interventional cardiology (which is considered by many an "extreme sport", not unlike eventing, LOL) is "just because you CAN, doesn't mean you SHOULD". :)

Horseless1
Dec. 21, 2007, 09:38 AM
How did you know he's for sale? Donna Smith's site doesn't list it...just curious.

TexasTB
Dec. 21, 2007, 03:47 PM
How did you know he's for sale? Donna Smith's site doesn't list it...just curious.

http://www.blueribbonmeadows.com/sale.html

tommygirl
Dec. 21, 2007, 04:13 PM
it looks like he is being advertised as a 4* horse - even though he is ready to be a 2* horse? I guess it's whatever sells the horse.

bornfreenowexpensive
Dec. 21, 2007, 05:25 PM
He may not be as expensive as what you may think either ;-)


If I had any money...I'd buy him to pack my a$$ around prelim and just look pretty in the field! He is a lovely looking horse.

snoopy
Dec. 21, 2007, 06:15 PM
it looks like he is being advertised as a 4* horse - even though he is ready to be a 2* horse? I guess it's whatever sells the horse.



That is exactly my thoughts whilst reading the advert.:confused: Nothing about wanting an easier life so no doubt someone will buy this horse and want to take it right back up the level. Or hoping the agent/seller does the right thing and explains the reason/feelings for the sale.

FrittSkritt
Dec. 21, 2007, 06:48 PM
Why is he being sold in Houston?

deltawave
Dec. 21, 2007, 07:18 PM
I like the gray horse. Wonder how old he is. Wonder where I could find $35K, too. :p

pwynnnorman
Dec. 21, 2007, 07:19 PM
Unfortunate thread now. I was wondering when--Who was it?...and with no disrespect to that poster--posted "the" reasons for his sale. That's probably something best obtained first-hand, y'know? Not saying which version is accurate (although I'll admit I'm curious about the "taking an amature [sic] to Rolex both times" statement) and there's always the possibility that between consignment and webmaster, some nuances were lost. Still, this is probably a good example of why the "why" parts probably should be posted only by the originator of whatever action we're discussing, y'know what I mean?

gully's pilot
Dec. 21, 2007, 07:25 PM
Wynn, Shrapnel posted "the" reasons--and he was Donna's working student, so it was pretty much firsthand. But I did just look at the ad, for curiosity, and it does make it sound like he's ready to run a 4-star again tomorrow. And "amateur" around Rolex???!! Since when is Donna--whom I love dearly--an amateur??

pwynnnorman
Dec. 21, 2007, 07:38 PM
Yeah, makes it a bit awkward.

IfWishesWereHorses
Dec. 21, 2007, 07:52 PM
Why is he being sold in Houston?
Frances Stead (owner of clifton horses) has a business relationship by the looks of it, with Blue Ribbon, and I'd guess there is no point Donna retaining the ride, so he was sent down to Texas to sell.

What I don't get, is how come its advertised saying he took an amateur around Rolex? That would be Donna? Is she considered an amateur???? She's one of the most professional and talented riders around - and genuine as they come. How come she's considered an ammie? (genuine question here guys, I always think of an ammie as a lesser experienced rider who does it for fun).

Shrapnel
Dec. 21, 2007, 08:14 PM
it looks like he is being advertised as a 4* horse - even though he is ready to be a 2* horse? I guess it's whatever sells the horse.

Yes. And I'm sure his owner and or rider will explain why he is for sale. I couldn't imagine going to look at a 4* horse and not asking why they're for sale.

snoopy
Dec. 21, 2007, 08:22 PM
Yes. And I'm sure his owner and or rider will explain why he is for sale. I couldn't imagine going to look at a 4* horse and not asking why they're for sale.

I really hope this is the case. If the horse truly wants an easier life, I hope that is made clear. Something tells me...and I know this from experience...that this horse will probably be bought by a very ambitious rider who thinks they have the "magic touch" that will bring this horse back to the four star level...usually with little result.:no:

Shrapnel
Dec. 21, 2007, 08:26 PM
I really hope this is the case. If the horse truly wants an easier life, I hope that is made clear. Something tells me...and I know this from experience...that this horse will probably be bought by a very ambitious rider who thinks they have the "magic touch" that will bring this horse back to the four star level...usually with little result.:no:

Bottom Line:
All we can do is hope that whoever buys him listens to what the owner and or rider tells them and that they make the right decisions for the horse.

texang73
Dec. 21, 2007, 09:42 PM
I like the gray horse. Wonder how old he is. Wonder where I could find $35K, too. :p

Allure (the gray) is a she :D ... she's a nice horse, I know her. She was boarded at the same stable as my horse for awhile. Not sure on her age, but I think she is 9 ??? But don't quote me on that!

tx3dayeventer
Dec. 21, 2007, 11:02 PM
Not to be the total party pooper or hornets nest kicker :winkgrin: but I bet what will happen is some primadonna metroplex Area V young rider will beg parents for horse. they buy horse with hopes that little suzie can ride Rolex next year and suzie will probably fall off and quit b/c she is way over mounted (as in not an ammy ride :)) and should be doing training and then they will bitch and moan about all the money they spent on a four star horse that cant do a four star. And probably in the midst of all of this BLAME Donna for training the horse poorly. Poor Donna! She is a fabulous rider!!!! But SO Area V!!!! Ive been an Area V'er for 15+ years and seen it happen many times, unfortuantly. Maybe Barbara Jacobs (Blue Ribbon's trainer) will be honest about the horse and it would go to a Prelim rider aspiring to do a 2star and thats it. Maybe someone that doesnt have all the time in the world to train a green to get there, like an adult with a 40+hr a week job. But from the ad it certainly doesnt seem to be that they are selling him as a 2star horse. They make it sound like he will run Rolex in the spring with the right rider (maybe you for the right price).

Hell, if I had the money (obviously more than $50K) I'd buy him and cruise around Prelim/Int and kick ass!!!

BigRuss1996
Dec. 22, 2007, 08:38 AM
Yes and hopefully the misrepresented horse won't kill little suzie in the process. It is things like this that are part of the "problem" . If you see an advanced horse for sale and it seems way too reasonably priced there is usually a reason.




[QUOTE=tx3dayeventer;2884905]Not to be the total party pooper or hornets nest kicker :winkgrin: but I bet what will happen is some primadonna metroplex Area V young rider will beg parents for horse. they buy horse with hopes that little suzie can ride Rolex next year and suzie will probably fall off and quit b/c she is way over mounted (as in not an ammy ride :)) and should be doing training and then they will bitch and moan about all the money they spent on a four star horse that cant do a four star.

gully's pilot
Dec. 22, 2007, 11:22 AM
I think whoever buys Webs would be hard pressed to get as much effort from him as Donna has, or make as good of decisions on his behalf as she has done. I really hope he goes to someone who wants him to haul them around prelim happily, and not to someone with Rolex stars in their eyes.

deltawave
Dec. 22, 2007, 01:23 PM
A mare? Oh dang, now I really want...her. :) Wouldn't say no to "Webs", either. Where IS that Lotto ticket? Oh right, I don't play the Lotto. Ah well. :sigh:

bornfreenowexpensive
Dec. 22, 2007, 04:42 PM
Damn...he'd be perfect for me....right size too. Too bad I bought a farm and already have too many horses!!!

I don't think I would be all doom and gloom. There are pleanty of good young riders (and adults) out there who might be perfect for him. Most people shopping for horses with his experience know the history (or find it out). That add will not likely sell the horse.....he will most likely be sold by word of mouth and the people buying him will know exactly what they are getting. A good/fancy two star horse will still cost 80+ thousand....so I suspect he will go to a good home.

But If I won the lottery...and could quit my day job (and weekend job)...I'd go try him out! He looks like my type of horse!

flutie1
Dec. 22, 2007, 04:47 PM
[QUOTE=BigRuss1996;2885210]Yes and hopefully the misrepresented horse won't kill little suzie in the process. It is things like this that are part of the "problem" . If you see an advanced horse for sale and it seems way too reasonably priced there is usually a reason.




Oh, so very well said - and sadly, how true.

BarbaraJ
Jan. 31, 2008, 03:30 PM
Hello,, I did want everyone to know, that Call Me Clifton or Webby is a fine sound four star horse, and he will do more four stars in the future, the reason he is being sold is Donna his current rider is moving on too other things, and other horses, Webby has been sent to me too be sold as we sell horses world wide, and we are a barn that both Francis and Donna trust for care and work etc. We do have an interested party that fully plans on going all the way with Webby. I do want too thank you for your interest in him,, he is a great guy, easy loveling,, and ready for another Rolex... thank you again.

BarbaraJ
Jan. 31, 2008, 03:33 PM
Hello,, yes there is a reason, but it is private, and has nothing to do with the horse,

snoopy
Jan. 31, 2008, 03:36 PM
why would "shrapnel" disclose something different? In any event, I hope the new rider/owner achieves the results they are hoping for.

eqsiu
Jan. 31, 2008, 03:40 PM
This is a rather random resurrection.

snoopy
Jan. 31, 2008, 03:45 PM
This is a rather random resurrection.

Perhaps the new rider/owner has read this thread...or other interested parties and have questioned the motive for the sale.....

BarbaraJ
Jan. 31, 2008, 03:49 PM
Hello, yes it seems many people are interested in why this wonderful horse would be sold, and it will be up too his new owner on what way he goes, but a horse is a horse so you never know. It is wonderful too see how many people care about him, but again, the sale has nothing to do with the horse, so hopefully the new owner will spend some time getting used to him, and then take him up the ranks...

Shrapnel
Jan. 31, 2008, 05:10 PM
snoopy -- I was wrong.

Wow...that is great to hear about Webby. Glad he will still be seen at the top level. Good luck to new rider and owner! :)

BarbaraJ
Jan. 31, 2008, 08:15 PM
Hello, again,, I do so want to thank everyone for the interest in this horse, Donna his old rider is moving back too New Zealand, to start a new life over there, she was not ready too tell anyone, Webby is the only horse she has ever done a four star with, and he is always going to be the horse that started it all. Her move home will be in the next four too six weeks, I do think it is special that so many people are interested, most with wonderful intentions, so look forward to him with his new rider, learning about each other, and figuring things out,,,,

FrittSkritt
Jan. 31, 2008, 08:27 PM
Nooooooooo! She can't leave! :( We love Donna!

3Day-Eventer
Jan. 31, 2008, 08:33 PM
Can you say who the new owner is? Will he stay in Area V? That would be so cool!

BarbaraJ
Jan. 31, 2008, 10:21 PM
Hello, you are all so sweet,, I will miss Donna so much, but she really wants to go home, she has been gone a long time, and wants to be able to have more of a normal life,,, can't blame her,, I do understand,,, I can not say who the new owner is just yet, we are finalizing everything, but yes he will be staying in my barn, and doing some Area V shows, so you will get too see him,, he is such a doll,,, We do wish Donna all the best, and so much luck and love in life, she will be back, but I think everyone needs a brake now and then,,,, You are all so sweet.

gully's pilot
Jan. 31, 2008, 10:34 PM
Shrapnel believes something different because he was told something different. Of course circumstances may well have changed....but I'll be surprised to see Webs doing another four-star, much as I adore him.

BarbaraJ
Feb. 1, 2008, 09:54 AM
Hello, it would not be a surprise too see him go four star again, but it would be sometime before his new owner was ready for that,, or wanted to do that, but thank you so much for your interest.

snoopy
Feb. 1, 2008, 09:59 AM
so where do you think this speculation comes from that the horse is not a four star horse anymore? I have known many that simply throw in the towel after one 4* let alone a few. I understand that situations change, riders come and go, and horses change hands.
So are you saying that this horse has NO issues with competeing at the four star level? It is always sad when a young horse disappears from high levels of competition, but there is usually a reason for it.
Thanks for the info.

deltawave
Feb. 1, 2008, 10:09 AM
Jeez, who cares what the horse's "issues" may or may not be? I'm sad to hear DS is leaving the country, but can't we just wish her and the horse well? Is it really anyone's business to speculate on more than that?

snoopy
Feb. 1, 2008, 10:22 AM
Jeez, who cares what the horse's "issues" may or may not be? I'm sad to hear DS is leaving the country, but can't we just wish her and the horse well? Is it really anyone's business to speculate on more than that?

Who cares? Potential buyers..that's who.


Apparently others do care about this...especially as the horse was put up for sale. People talk, so it is good to have the truth.
A situation like this probably isn't an issue for "you" really.
My interest comes from the fact that I know 2 people who expressed interest in the horse, and of course thought about the specualtion. I understand that the horse may have a new rider, but I am sure this situation may come up again.

flyingchange
Feb. 1, 2008, 10:44 AM
I am sorry Donna is leaving. She is such a genuinely friendly and nice person. I have always enjoyed watching her ride and passing her at events, where she always made an effort to be friendly and open. I don't blame her for going back to NZ though. I think I would rather live there than here.

event1
Feb. 1, 2008, 01:56 PM
At the risk of sounding snarky...why is this REALLY anyones true business ie: why the horse is being sold, why the woman is leaving for New Zealand, is the horse going to do another 4 star ever...I think BarbaraJ has given the OP their answer-that yes, the horse has been sold....and she has been overly generous in other details...Geez-isn't that enough? The horse and rider are not public property for petes sake....

titan
Feb. 1, 2008, 03:47 PM
Who cares? Potential buyers..that's who.


Apparently others do care about this...especially as the horse was put up for sale. People talk, so it is good to have the truth.
A situation like this probably isn't an issue for "you" really.
My interest comes from the fact that I know 2 people who expressed interest in the horse, and of course thought about the specualtion. I understand that the horse may have a new rider, but I am sure this situation may come up again.


I don't know anything about this horse one way or another but wouldn't it be a shame if the 2 people you know that may have been interested in the horse missed a wonderful opportunity because of the 'speculation' instead of fact?

snoopy
Feb. 1, 2008, 03:52 PM
I don't know anything about this horse one way or another but wouldn't it be a shame if the 2 people you know that may have been interested in the horse missed a wonderful opportunity because of the 'speculation' instead of fact?


EXACTLY!!! Now I hold my hand up and will be the first to admit that the information given by one or two posters was discussed with these two. So that is why I press for "truth" when the opportunity presents itself.

RunForIt
Feb. 1, 2008, 06:53 PM
originally posted by bornfreenowexpensive:

I agree as well. I think Donna is a lovely rider and a very nice person....but I do not understand the culture of pushing young horses to Adv. at 7 or even 8. Even if it is easy for them. I don't think that they need to be pounded on forever at Novice and training....but there is also no need to be at those levels so young. Let them hang out at Prelim....do a few more dressage and jumper shows....and let their bodies (and minds) finish maturing and get stronger to handle the stress. I also do not see any reason for 5 year olds to be running Prelim. I'm all for backing young horses and taking them out and about but there is no need to be running Prelim at 5 or even a CCI* at 6.....and yet now, if you don't, people think your horse doesn't have International talent. Not a good culture.


I believe that all horses should be treated as individuals. I have a 5 year old mare running Prelim. I try my best to take care of her (monthly adequan, aquatred, adequate vacations, etc.) But, she LOVES her job. When she in on these vacations for longer than 2 weeks she starts acting pissy and hateful and obviously wants to get back to work. That being said, she could probably move up this spring, but I am doing to do more Prelims and CIC's with her for experience and probably will not move her up until late 08 (if then). I don't run her that much and I am hoping she will last a long time. But, I'd be pretty mad at myself if I didn't let her reach her full potential.

Children often think that what's fun oughta' be ok to do as much as they want...personally know 2 individuals who at 18 and 20 were the nationally ranked top marathoners for their age - both broke down before they were 26 - they loved it, everyone loved their talent ,,,and used it up. In all animals - humans and horses - bones, tendons, and muscles take years to develop the strength to make it over "the long run". Rarely does any animal beat biology or I suppose, physiology.

BarbaraJ
Feb. 1, 2008, 10:29 PM
Hello, again, I am glad he has such a fan club, Donna is going home because she wants to, she has been gone 9yrs, and really needs to get a normal life, she needs a break, and the rest is private.
Webby is fine, he is not being sold because something is wrong with him, there is just no Donna to ride him anymore, they are both fine, just parting ways... Hopefully all will go thru with no problems and he will have a new owner, that can play with him and have fun at the level they choose, which of course will not be four star too start, they do not know each other at all.
Webby wishes all of you the best, I am sure you will be seeing him out at the shows sometime,,,,

GiantHim!
Sep. 15, 2012, 06:38 PM
Sorry for resurrecting this old thread but Call Me Clifton is for sale again now as a dressage horse. Wonder how he got on in the years to this point?

http://www.dressagedaily.com/market/horse-market/call-me-clifton-owner-motivated-sell

Eventer13
Sep. 15, 2012, 09:20 PM
Hate to say it, but tx3dayeventer's prediction about his buyer (in 2009) came true...

purplnurpl
Sep. 17, 2012, 09:40 AM
Hate to say it, but tx3dayeventer's prediction about his buyer (in 2009) came true...

yeeesh,
indeed.
they didn't even finish Prelims together...

http://useventing.com/competitions/profile-horse?horse_id=86014

PonyGal08
Sep. 17, 2012, 09:50 AM
Sorry for resurrecting this old thread but Call Me Clifton is for sale again now as a dressage horse. Wonder how he got on in the years to this point?

http://www.dressagedaily.com/market/horse-market/call-me-clifton-owner-motivated-sell

Interesting he's being marketed as a dressage horse...

NeverTime
Sep. 17, 2012, 10:58 AM
I'm not sure what's "interesting" about it -- that word always seems snarky and loaded, so apologies if you didn't mean it that way -- except that it seems to make sense, given the poor recent results in eventing and the fact that's he's apparently now in boot camp with a highly respected dressage trainer and seems to be excelling at that.
There are quite a few formerly successful eventers who, for one reason or another, lose their interest in XC and go on to be very successful dressage horses. Clark Montgomery's Radnor CCI** winner Cape Town decided he didn't want to event any more but went on to a second career as a very successful YR dressage horse.
Would much rather see humans who recognize and understand where a horse wants to be than humans who try to force a now-square peg into a round hole.

asterix
Sep. 17, 2012, 11:36 AM
"Would much rather see humans who recognize and understand where a horse wants to be than humans who try to force a now-square peg into a round hole."

As someone who has been blessed with an absolutely wonderful partner I never would have had if his previous owner had not realized and respected this, YES!

My guy broke his previous owner's heart (she has never bought another horse) when he turned out not to be able to handle the career she wanted for him (dressage, ironically), but he has had a very happy life in the 8 years since he came to me; she still visits him, and knows it was the right decision.

PonyGal08
Sep. 17, 2012, 06:40 PM
I'm not sure what's "interesting" about it -- that word always seems snarky and loaded, so apologies if you didn't mean it that way -- except that it seems to make sense, given the poor recent results in eventing and the fact that's he's apparently now in boot camp with a highly respected dressage trainer and seems to be excelling at that.
There are quite a few formerly successful eventers who, for one reason or another, lose their interest in XC and go on to be very successful dressage horses. Clark Montgomery's Radnor CCI** winner Cape Town decided he didn't want to event any more but went on to a second career as a very successful YR dressage horse.
Would much rather see humans who recognize and understand where a horse wants to be than humans who try to force a now-square peg into a round hole.

No snark intended, but I can see how that can be interpreted, I apologize. It was just interesting given the content of the thread that nothing was wrong with the horse and he could still do 4*s etc... If the issues were merely the rider, I'd have thought he'd go to an event rider.

eventer80
Sep. 17, 2012, 07:03 PM
I saw him compete with his new rider several times and I have to say that although she was trying very hard to ride him well, it was kind of a train wreck. Nice girl, nice horse. NOT a nice pair.

Not sure if he never wants to event again, maybe just with the right rider.

gorebels91
Sep. 17, 2012, 09:24 PM
This horse was VERY well schooled on the flat, and scored well at the 4* level with Donna. Not surprised at this though... Webs was always a tricky ride, an extremely quirky horse. Donna was/ is SUCH a quiet rider, I feel like a kid would be the wrong fit. He's about 15 now, but good luck to whoever gets him to do circles on!