Are there any farriers out there, that are worth calling themselves one?

[Manes&Tails]

Farriers, who needs them if they are only going to cripple your horse, cut the toes and heels off, leave hot nails, unbalanced and cut the hoof down to nothing to where if you do find a good farrier that don't have anything to fix!!!

A good guess tells me over half the horses in this world are crippled because of the farrier, and the owner does not even know why there horse is crippled are lame.

I for the 4th time over the years am spending a lot of time and money trying to heal my 2 mares hooves, with oils, supplements, hay, good feed, etc from 3 mths of bad farrier work. I got tired of going through farriers and after the 2nd shoeing with the last one I noticed my horses hooves did not look balanced, etc, so instead of firing my farrier, I told myself I was going to work with this one and talk it out. Well, hooves worse then ever, even if I found a good farrier their is not enough hoof left to fix.

So I had another farrier come out and pull a new set of shoes, after only two weeks I have contracted heels, pasterns turning on the yearling, uneven, too short, no heel and on and on.

So I purchased a rasp and I am filing them myself a little at a time.

What good is a farrier if they are only going to cripple your horse!:mad: The horses are better off just going without shoes, wearing the hoof off themselfs and being barefoot, at least they want get contracted heels.

I am fed up with these local, college educated, phd, young guys around here that call themself a farrier. There are many, many farriers in my area, but they wont work on my horses again!!!:no:

I don't have a phd, nor have I been to farrier school, but I am doing a better job then they can do.

Most of us ladies at my stables have purchased our own tools, and are trimming our own horses. We might not be doing it correctly, but at least we are not cutting the hoof down to nothing and putting in hot nails!!!

A good farrier is very much needed, but if I can't find a good one I rather not have one at all.

All the farriers that have messed up my horses hooves came highly recommended and they arn't worth a penny!

Thank you, I feel better now!!!

[sublimequine]

..so what are we supposed to say?

[atr]

My farrier is fabulous. He is educated, experienced, and continues with his education. His father and grandfather were farriers before him, and his son looks like he might carry on the family tradition.

He's also a really nice guy.

I'm very choosy who I let near my horses' feet. He and I have the same philosophy.

[MGA828]

I just love my farrier, he is great!!! I have been using my current one for over 3 years now and have zero problems with him. He is very well educated and knows what he is doing, plus will voice his opinion if need be. He will do whatever you want done and will offer suggestions. Plus in his younger days (20's and 30's) he was a big time show jumper, so he knows from experience about what horses need and not just from education. He still has a few horses and rides when he has the time. He is perfect and I just adore him!!!!

[RiverBendPol]

Good grief, what a rant! Where are you? Maybe you should ship to a University hospital and use their farrier? Or ask a vet you trust if they can suggest someone worthy?
I have had nothing but fabulous farriers in the last 20 years. A couple of them haven't been completely reliable in keeping to their schedules but they sure knew how to shoe horses. Funny, 3 of them were trained by the same guy, my old original blacksmith. When he died the youngsters took over.
Then I moved to Maine and found another wonderful farrier. I guess you are just in the wrong part of the country. Good ones are certainly out there.

[minnie]

I've told my farrier if he ever moves he has to take my horses with him. One of our local farriers has the opposite problem. Of the horses I've seen that he's been doing all of their toes are waaaaayyy too long, both front and back. And he's so busy he's not taking any new customers! Lord have mercy!

[retrofit]

I think you're going to have trouble attracting a good farrier with that hate 'em all attitude.
Yes there are good ones. Why not check the web sites of the farrier assocs. & start calling. Be Nice!

[Daydream Believer]

It was frustration with the work of farriers in our area and the seeming inability of any I could find to do a decent balanced trim that led me to learn to trim my own. Your frustration is not uncommon I'm afraid and lots of us started trimming for the same reason. Don't forget that hoof boots can be a very good alternative to shoes if any of your horses need additional protection.

[7HL]

There are good farriers out there and bad farriers, as there are trimmers.

We are very fortunate to have a good farrier, that is also a good trimmer. He someone that has been there for our horses for years.

[eventmom]

My farrier is the best! Nothing worse than a bad one though. I watch my friends use those cheap guys. Oh my goodness. Back problems, hoof problems, stifle problems, etc... And they don't realize.... it's your farrier stupid! If those farriers were my only option, I too would learn to do it myself! They scare me.:eek::eek:

[Jaegermonster]

My farrier rocks. He can hot shoe, cold shoe, make his own shoes, work off a written prescription and drawing from my vet (without complaining about it), and the vets LOVE working with him because he treats it like it's a team concept (which it is). He has apprenticed all over the country and has all kinds of training. He's not a diva who gets uptight about a vet recommending things like some farriers.
I love my farrier. I keep him in cold drinks and sandwiches when he comes out, he can have anything he wants. And he is very affordable.
Did I say I love my farrier?

[Woodland]

It depends on the farrier! I had one so bad my horse needed an expoy hoof for a year to correct the damage. The new guy came recomended from U of I he was excellent!

The Man I have now is educated, careful, kind, punctual, and expensive. But...worth his weight in gold!!!!

[RockinHorse]

I guess I am lucky. I have two fabulous farriers :yes:

[SweatySaddlepad]

I sure know your frustration but believe me there are some "worth their weight in gold" farriers out there. I had the best one ever then he moved to CA, I truly mourned his loss........my mare lost her battle with founder a few months after he left and swear had he still been around she would be to. He shoed to the horse not the horse to the shoe, everyone individual. Anyone live around Napa CA and want a terrific shoer here he is:

http://www.swfarrier.com/

[Tory Relic]

Mine certainly is worth his weight in gold. I tell anyone who asks me that he is and give them his #.

It's great living in horse country....so many good ones to choose from -- I have a rather decent backup farrier, too.

[Manes&Tails]

Good grief, what a rant! Where are you? Maybe you should ship to a University hospital and use their farrier? Or ask a vet you trust if they can suggest someone worthy?
I have had nothing but fabulous farriers in the last 20 years. A couple of them haven't been completely reliable in keeping to their schedules but they sure knew how to shoe horses. Funny, 3 of them were trained by the same guy, my old original blacksmith. When he died the youngsters took over.
Then I moved to Maine and found another wonderful farrier. I guess you are just in the wrong part of the country. Good ones are certainly out there.

the University farrier is 250.00, and all the farriers that do a good job that are recomended by the vets wont take on new clients.

[Auventera Two]

Why do you think I learned to trim for myself?

Hint: It sure wasn't because our area is saturated with fantastic farriers making the lives of horses better every day.

[hitchinmygetalong]

A good guess tells me over half the horses in this world are crippled because of the farrier, and the owner does not even know why there horse is crippled are lame.

I'm sorry you have not been satisfied with the work done on your horses by farriers. Hope your rant helped you feel better, though I'm afraid you won't find everyone in agreement with your guess.

I hope you will be pleased with the long-term results of trimming them yourself. Personally, I don't think a simple trim is rocket science. I learned to do it in college but still turned to a farrier for my horses' foot care. Though I've run across one or two that weren't especially gifted, none of them crippled my horses.

I'll stick with a good farrier working with a good vet.

Good luck.

[Nezzy]

I have to disagree. i don't know where you live, but my Farrier is excellent, and my poor horse CANNOT go barefoot. If my farrier is unable to get there, i have a few others locally that i trust. Sorry you are having a rough time finding a good farrier.

[LivviesMom]

My farrier rocks. He can hot shoe, cold shoe, make his own shoes, work off a written prescription and drawing from my vet (without complaining about it), and the vets LOVE working with him because he treats it like it's a team concept (which it is). He has apprenticed all over the country and has all kinds of training. He's not a diva who gets uptight about a vet recommending things like some farriers.
I love my farrier. I keep him in cold drinks and sandwiches when he comes out, he can have anything he wants. And he is very affordable.
Did I say I love my farrier?

My Farrier is the same.. does alot of corrective work for a local equine hospital including foals.. is always learning and competes at farrier competitions to test himself.. listens to my concerns and works with me completely.. I love him. lol

[WildBlue]

I've used a number of different farriers over the last 10 years, mainly because I've moved twice and had to locate a new farrier each time.

Two were excellent, including my current farrier. At least 4 were good but didn't knock my socks off (For example, the one guy thought he was God and the Worlds Best Horse Trainer rolled into one and wouldn't. shut. up. Ever. Another did a good job if he knew you could tell the difference, otherwise it was wham-bam-that'll be 40 bucks ma'am.) And two did a terrible job and were quickly fired.

There are some really good guys in the area who are recommended by vets, but they're not accepting new clients. My current guy does a fantastic job, about the equal to the other guys and at a fraction of the price, but doesn't have his own transportation. Lots of people won't put up with the inconvenience. Their loss. :p

[Manes&Tails]

Back in the old days the farriers would watch the horse at a walk and trot before shoeing and after shoeing.

Now they just put on the shoes and leave!

Also this last farrier would bring another farrier with him. They would shoe the same horses all day together. One would do one hoof while the other rested extra. This is crazy, I don't care how well they shoe or don't shoe, no two farrier's shoe a like, how would I get four blanced hooves with two different people?

I only hired the one farrier not the other, it was not right for him to let the other farrier work on my horses also without at least asking, and of course the answer would be NO!

It's not just me, several of us at the barn are going through farriers like hot cakes. Just can't find a good one. We are all having the same problems, no heel, hoof too small, not balanced. So it's not just me.

If there is a good farrier out there reading this thread, I now where you could have a barn full of horses to shoe and trim!!!!

[trubandloki]

I think your guess at half the horses being crippled is VERY much an exageration. Not only is the number of crippled horses very way out in left field but to state that most owners are too dumb to know what is going on is just...insulting.

I personally really love the work my farrier does.


And from what your second post says it sounds more like you are not willing to pay for a good farrier.


And, farriers like everyone other profession there is, there are good and bad. There are also good and bad receptionists, good and bad doctors, good and bad hair stylists, etc.

[Lookout]

Farriers, who needs them if they are only going to cripple your horse, cut the toes and heels off, leave hot nails, unbalanced and cut the hoof down to nothing to where if you do find a good farrier that don't have anything to fix!!!

A good guess tells me over half the horses in this world are crippled because of the farrier, and the owner does not even know why there horse is crippled are lame.

Define 'crippled'.


So I had another farrier come out and pull a new set of shoes, after only two weeks I have contracted heels, pasterns turning on the yearling, uneven, too short, no heel and on and on.

Contracted heels in two weeks?


I am fed up with these local, college educated, phd, young guys around here that call themself a farrier. There are many, many farriers in my area, but they wont work on my horses again!!!:no:

I don't have a phd, nor have I been to farrier school, but I am doing a better job then they can do.

Your farriers have phd's?

:confused:

It does work both ways. How good of a client are you?

[Manes&Tails]

I think your guess at half the horses being crippled is VERY much an exageration. Not only is the number of crippled horses very way out in left field but to state that most owners are too dumb to know what is going on is just...insulting.

I personally really love the work my farrier does.


And from what your second post says it sounds more like you are not willing to pay for a good farrier.


And, farriers like everyone other profession there is, there are good and bad. There are also good and bad receptionists, good and bad doctors, good and bad hair stylists, etc.

I am paying what everyone else is paying or more to try and get the best, but, no I will not pay 250.00 for one shoeing.

[Manes&Tails]

Define 'crippled'.



Contracted heels in two weeks?



Your farriers have phd's?

:confused:

It does work both ways. How good of a client are you?
Let's see I pay right then and there, I have my horses up and ready to go, I work with my horses so they are good for the farrier. And yes ater 3 shoeing jobs she has contracted heels.

[Manes&Tails]

Define 'crippled'.



Contracted heels in two weeks?



Your farriers have phd's?

:confused:

It does work both ways. How good of a client are you?
Yes, several of the farriers here have PHd's!! Yes, they do! Still take the hoof off!

[trubandloki]

Let's see I pay right then and there, I have my horses up and ready to go, I work with my horses so they are good for the farrier. And yes ater 3 shoeing jobs she has contracted heels.

There is a huge difference between three shoeing jobs and two weeks last time I checked.

[Manes&Tails]

There is a huge difference between three shoeing jobs and two weeks last time I checked.
I had them pulled 2 weeks after the 3rd shoeing.

[Appassionato]

the University farrier is 250.00, and all the farriers that do a good job that are recomended by the vets wont take on new clients.

Without knowing where you are (roughly), no one can help you find a farrier/trimmer.

And if your horses are crippled and need help, $250 is NOT bad. Matter of fact, it's a steal.

[deltawave]

A good guess tells me over half the horses in this world are crippled because of the farrier

Boy, you do like to play the drama card. :)

[Rick Burten]

Back in the old days the farriers would watch the horse at a walk and trot before shoeing and after shoeing.
Many of us still do.
Now they just put on the shoes and leave!
Well, if its a horse I have done for a while, and there are no complaints or issues described to me by the owner/trainer/vet, and the shoe wear pattern does not indicate any problems, then whats the problem? Besides, if the farrier fetches the horse from its stall and then returns it when the work is completed, or if someone else does that for the farrier and the farrier is watching and listening, then the horse is getting evaluated whether you know it or not. And, if the horses are out in the pasture and the farrier is watching them, then s/he's evaluating them and making mental notes.
Also this last farrier would bring another farrier with him. They would shoe the same horses all day together. One would do one hoof while the other rested extra.
Sounds like a plan.
This is crazy, I don't care how well they shoe or don't shoe, no two farrier's shoe a like, how would I get four blanced hooves with two different people?
Same way you get four balanced hooves with one person.
I only hired the one farrier not the other,
Actually, whether the farrier's business is a sole proprietorship , Sub-chapter S Corp, LLC, or other, you are retaining the services of the business. How many are you paying? When you call the "XYZ" company to do a given job, do you get Mr. XYZ each and every time, if ever?
it was not right for him to let the other farrier work on my horses also without at least asking, and of course the answer would be NO!
See above.
If there is a good farrier out there reading this thread, I now where you could have a barn full of horses to shoe and trim!!!!
Where are you located and how much are you willing to pay?

[arabhorse2]

H&T I don't know where you live, but in my little backwater of VA there are at least three excellent farriers that I know of, one of which does my horses.

I'm sure there are others, but my farrier, the farrier he interned under, and another that a friend of mine uses are all excellent. All three can trim, hot or cold shoe, and know their business inside and out. Everyone who uses these men have nothing but good things to say about them. :)

My farrier is on call with the AC in my area, because they know he does a bang up job of doing neglect cases and getting them (literally) back on their feet.

I absolutely loff my farrier, and I consider him a friend as well as my farrier. Yeah, he's a little rough around the edges and smokes like a chimney (not around the barn), but a better farrier or human being you won't find anywhere. :yes:

[Manes&Tails]

H&T I don't know where you live, but in my little backwater of VA there are at least three excellent farriers that I know of, one of which does my horses.

I'm sure there are others, but my farrier, the farrier he interned under, and another that a friend of mine uses are all excellent. All three can trim, hot or cold shoe, and know their business inside and out. Everyone who uses these men have nothing but good things to say about them. :)

My farrier is on call with the AC in my area, because they know he does a bang up job of doing neglect cases and getting them (literally) back on their feet.

I absolutely loff my farrier, and I consider him a friend as well as my farrier. Yeah, he's a little rough around the edges and smokes like a chimney (not around the barn), but a better farrier or human being you won't find anywhere. :yes:

WE have good ones also, but they are not taking new clients, they have so many.

[trubandloki]

I look at it this way, if you have been thru that many farriers then it is most likely not the farrier that is the issue.

You have had horses for some time, have you never had one that you liked?

[LisaB]

I believe you H&T. I moved my horse back to my old barn (2 mortgages now and cheaper board). I called my old barn's farrier's apprentice. Thinking the farrier is the best around and why not throw some business this guy's way? He's been apprenticing for a 1 1/2 years and my horse is a big ol draft cross. Thickest damned walls ever.
Well, he comes and resets shoes. $120. Ummm, that's the same price as master farrier. WTF? Okay, he did travel further than he normally does. I'll cut him some slack.
Then my horse starts getting lamer and lamer. After 10 days, horse is completely lame and I feel heat. Pull shoes and yup, see garbage on inner left front. This guy hot nailed my horse! A horse that has probably 1/4 in wall for crissakes! So, I spend the next 6 weeks doctoring my horse who then proceeds to go to crap. I also notice that he cut the heels off and my horse has a tendency to underrun the inside heel. So now they are completely collapsed with a hot nail abscessing and thrush! Jeez! Finally after 2 1/2 months, I get my old farrier to come out. I wanted all the crap gone before he got there.
He gets there and shakes his head ...
He trims him and I clearly see this a-hole had nailed into the friggin' sole. Jerkoff!
He obviously has no clue that I have a big mouth.
So yes, I believe you. And there are absolute crap farriers out there.
You may find a window of opportunity during the winter to get a farrier. Horses have a greater lag time between shoeing so they are not as busy. And once you're in, you're in.

[trubandloki]

So yes, I believe you. And there are absolute crap farriers out there.


I do not think anyone would disagree with this statement.

As I said above, in every job there are good and bad.

H&T is basically saying that there are almost no good farriers though.

[Manes&Tails]

I look at it this way, if you have been thru that many farriers then it is most likely not the farrier that is the issue.

You have had horses for some time, have you never had one that you liked?
Yes, I have had some I like, but they have died or moved on.

I guess 8 of the other ladies at the barn have the same problem as me then, like you say it is us, not the farrier!

I am hearing the same complaint as myself all over town from many,, I have lived here all my live and talk to many horse owners daily and we are all having the same problem.

[feetfirst]

H&T,
As with most things, there are good and bad in every profession. You did not say where you were located, but the AFA has a website that lists a farrier finder. You could try your local farrier's association. There are vet referrals, as well as referrals from trusted trainers.

[RockinHorse]

Back in the old days the farriers would watch the horse at a walk and trot before shoeing and after shoeing.




Mine still do. Neither of my farriers come cheap but as someone's tag line says (can't remember whose) - quality doesn't cost it pays.

[cholmberg]

I've been having farrier trouble too. :(

The man I'd been using was getting old, and he retired suddenly due to medical problems, both his and his wife. Very sad.

Tried one guy, but he's very new to the business, but w/o going into details, he just isn't going to work out.

Every farrier around here that is certified journeyman or is a really good farrier has a full client book. I just got an appointment with a really good one only because a client of his referred me to him. I feel very lucky to have gotten the appointment, and I pray all goes well because I really want a good farrier I can count on and keep.

[Manes&Tails]

H&T,
As with most things, there are good and bad in every profession. You did not say where you were located, but the AFA has a website that lists a farrier finder. You could try your local farrier's association. There are vet referrals, as well as referrals from trusted trainers.

Yes, and I/we took their advise and an awful farrier and horses with messed up hooves.

I have looked at the list and several of the ones listed messed up my horses.

As I already posted our good farriers arn't taking new clients!

[Lookout]

Let's see I pay right then and there, I have my horses up and ready to go, I work with my horses so they are good for the farrier. And yes ater 3 shoeing jobs she has contracted heels.

Three shoeings in 2 weeks?

What do these farriers have phd's in ?

[Manes&Tails]

Three shoeings in 2 weeks?

What do these farriers have phd's in ?

OML, 3 shoeing in six months, again, two weeks after the thrid shoes I had contracted heels and thrush, and still do!

In animal sc and equine sc.

[deltawave]

3 shoeings in 6 months is almost as bad as 3 shoeings in 2 weeks. Mine are on a 5 week schedule, 6 in the winter because they're barefoot and seem to grow more slowly then.

[Manes&Tails]

3 shoeings in 6 months is almost as bad as 3 shoeings in 2 weeks. Mine are on a 5 week schedule, 6 in the winter because they're barefoot and seem to grow more slowly then.

My horses are trimed and shod every 5 to 7 weeks depending on the hoof growth between shoeings. So what ever that comes out to be. I work very hard to take very good care of my hoses including farrier work.

My last farrier did 3 jobs for me when it came time for the third job I could really tell my horses were off, way off, I tired to work with him on the 3rd to start correct what he had messed up on the last 2, but he just got huffy. Now they are really messed up.

[DMK]

Boy, you do like to play the drama card. :)

Saddled that drama llama right up and took her for a spin, eh? :yes:

If the most reputable farriers are not taking customers, then ask them for a reference. They usually have the name of a good farrier they would recommend, one whom they have seen the work and approve of the job. If all those farriers won't fit you in as a customer, it's entirely possible the problem is not that their calendar is full...

[flshgordon]

OK first of all, if the GOOD farriers aren't taking new clients, then you need to plead, borrow and BEG them to come out. Make it worth their while and become their best client! Seriously....my farrier doesn't regularly take new clients. He doesn't have to and he ONLY takes them on referral. Why? So he doesn't have to put up with crazies! I have only 2 horses for him to do now (one is a trim only and one is front shoes) so he's not exactly paying his house note off me! But I make DAMN sure it is worth his while to stay with me....I always give him a nice tip at Christmas, I'm never late, I make sure the horses behave themselves impeccably for him and I'm not a pain in the ass constantly telling him I don't like what he does.

You can weasel your way in with a good farrier but you have to make it worth their while to add you as a client. If they say they're too busy, offer them a bit more money for each horse, TELL them what a good client you are, TELL them that so and so very highly recommended them, etc etc and under no circumstances tell them HOW to do their job like you know more than they do! You are paying for the expertise.

And I find it impossible to believe that in your area you cannot find a competent farrier through a recommendation from the university vet school/friends/colleagues/etc. Maybe you will have to find one that travels a ways....Brenham is not that far, maybe try there.

I would also like to add that it seems a bit strange that their are different intervals between shoeings/trims. My farrier comes 6 weeks to the day, EVERY TIME except during the December January period we have one 8 week (TO THE DAY) rotation so he can spend time with his family during Christmas. So he has the exact same schedule every day of the 6 week period....maybe you need to be able to stick to a stricter schedule, not just call when you think they need to be trimmed

[deltawave]

I always want to run screaming from the room when I hear that someone has "fired" their last 10 doctors. :eek: I just know that I'm going to be number 11, it's inevitable. :lol:

[Manes&Tails]

Many of us still do.

Well, if its a horse I have done for a while, and there are no complaints or issues described to me by the owner/trainer/vet, and the shoe wear pattern does not indicate any problems, then whats the problem? Besides, if the farrier fetches the horse from its stall and then returns it when the work is completed, or if someone else does that for the farrier and the farrier is watching and listening, then the horse is getting evaluated whether you know it or not. And, if the horses are out in the pasture and the farrier is watching them, then s/he's evaluating them and making mental notes.

Sounds like a plan.

Same way you get four balanced hooves with one person.

Actually, whether the farrier's business is a sole proprietorship , Sub-chapter S Corp, LLC, or other, you are retaining the services of the business. How many are you paying? When you call the "XYZ" company to do a given job, do you get Mr. XYZ each and every time, if ever?

See above.

Where are you located and how much are you willing to pay?

I think you are the same person that helped me with my horse about 2 years ago when I had the same problem, I was not on coth them and found you by searching the web. I sent you pictures of my grey mare and you told me she was way off and her hooves were too small to fix, and that you and your wife could tell by the way she was standing in the photo's she was hurting in her hips, hocks, all over. I also emailed you about the great buy I found on a McPherson saddle. You totally agreed with me after seeing my pictures that I had the problems I have now, the two farriers that messed my horse up this time went to school with the farrier that messed up my horses that were in the pictures I sent you. You would email me offten trying to help, then I never heard back from you?

Put it this way, my horses are off and I am not the one that did it, so it had to be the farrier, right?

[Manes&Tails]

I always want to run screaming from the room when I hear that someone has "fired" their last 10 doctors. :eek: I just know that I'm going to be number 11, it's inevitable. :lol:


I guess all us ladies at the barn have the same problem then?

[DMK]

yes, deltawave, my suspicion when I hear things like this, is that it's the patient (or in the case of animals, the patient's owner) that has the bad reputation, not the [insert treating individual or specialty].

Not always, of course... Generalizing is a bad thing. But good farriers (and vets, shippers, dentists, trainers, you name it) who have plenty of clients do tend to "talk amongst themselves" and sort out who might be a problem child in their area and who needs to be avoided.

[Katy Watts]

Ask around and find the closest highly regarded farrier, and ask to haul to them. I have hauled 3 hours away to get good hoof care. Then you get some of your friends to try him/her, do scheduling for them to get a full days work, offer to put them up and feed them. That's what we do in our remote valley. Got a lady with an indoor to let us use for all weather working conditions.
Katy

[Appassionato]

WE have good ones also, but they are not taking new clients, they have so many.

Is it that they won't come to your place to help your cripple? Can you haul them in?

[Manes&Tails]

OK first of all, if the GOOD farriers aren't taking new clients, then you need to plead, borrow and BEG them to come out. Make it worth their while and become their best client! Seriously....my farrier doesn't regularly take new clients. He doesn't have to and he ONLY takes them on referral. Why? So he doesn't have to put up with crazies! I have only 2 horses for him to do now (one is a trim only and one is front shoes) so he's not exactly paying his house note off me! But I make DAMN sure it is worth his while to stay with me....I always give him a nice tip at Christmas, I'm never late, I make sure the horses behave themselves impeccably for him and I'm not a pain in the ass constantly telling him I don't like what he does.

You can weasel your way in with a good farrier but you have to make it worth their while to add you as a client. If they say they're too busy, offer them a bit more money for each horse, TELL them what a good client you are, TELL them that so and so very highly recommended them, etc etc and under no circumstances tell them HOW to do their job like you know more than they do! You are paying for the expertise.

And I find it impossible to believe that in your area you cannot find a competent farrier through a recommendation from the university vet school/friends/colleagues/etc. Maybe you will have to find one that travels a ways....Brenham is not that far, maybe try there.

I would also like to add that it seems a bit strange that their are different intervals between shoeings/trims. My farrier comes 6 weeks to the day, EVERY TIME except during the December January period we have one 8 week (TO THE DAY) rotation so he can spend time with his family during Christmas. So he has the exact same schedule every day of the 6 week period....maybe you need to be able to stick to a stricter schedule, not just call when you think they need to be trimmed
Hooves grow slower, and faster at certains times of the year so I dicuss with my farrier when he needs to come back. Hooves should not go by a schedule, but by when needed. Just like feeding, every horse does not need to be fed by the lable instructions. Feed by the horse.

[Manes&Tails]

3 shoeings in 6 months is almost as bad as 3 shoeings in 2 weeks. Mine are on a 5 week schedule, 6 in the winter because they're barefoot and seem to grow more slowly then.

That would come out to be 3 shoeings in six mounts, if you shod every 5 weeks, 3 jobs would be six or five months.

[Rick Burten]

I think you are the same person that helped me with my horse about 2 years ago when I had the same problem, I was not on coth them and found you by searching the web. I sent you pictures of my grey mare and you told me she was way off and her hooves were too small to fix, and that you and your wife could tell by the way she was standing in the photo's she was hurting in her hips, hocks, all over.
Must have been someone else because my wife is about as "non-horsey" and non-involved in things horse, as one could possibly be.
I also emailed you about the great buy I found on a McPherson saddle. You totally agreed with me after seeing my pictures that I had the problems I have now, the two farriers that messed my horse up this time went to school with the farrier that messed up my horses that were in the pictures I sent you. You would email me offten trying to help, then I never heard back from you?
Me thinks I've been tarred with the wrong brush.
Put it this way, my horses are off and I am not the one that did it, so it had to be the farrier, right?
Perhaps. But your farrier(s) didn't give your horse thrush, and without seeing some b/4 and after photos, I won't even begin to speculate as to what caused your horse's feet to contract in the heels, if infact that is actually the case.

[Manes&Tails]

Must have been someone else because my wife is about as "non-horsey" and non-involved in things horse, as one could possibly be.

Me thinks I've been tarred with the wrong brush.

Perhaps. But your farrier(s) didn't give your horse thrush, and without seeing some b/4 and after photos, I won't even begin to speculate as to what caused your horse's feet to contract in the heels, if infact that is actually the case.

contract heels cause thursh, see I taught you something!

[Tiempo]

I always want to run screaming from the room when I hear that someone has "fired" their last 10 doctors. :eek: I just know that I'm going to be number 11, it's inevitable. :lol:

Ah yes.

Once in a while I'll get a call from someone looking for a farrier who will immediately haul off in to how terrible the last six farriers they've had this year were.

You can bet my book is full for those types, and I won't refer them to colleagues either.

There are indeed terrible 'farriers' out there, we've had one pop up here lately leaving a trail of sad wrecks in his wake, but there is also no shortage of horse owners for whom you couldn't pay me enough money to work for, and they are very easy to peg down on the first phone call.

[Manes&Tails]

What ever kind of person a farrier may think I am, I still have my horses hooves messed up and I am not the one that caused it! As crazy as I may be I am not the one doing the farrier work, and when I get a bad job I get several opinions from vets and other farrier friends and they tell me, yes your farrier messed up your horses. I have friends that are farriers, but do not do farrier work, because they other types of full time jobs.

[Appassionato]

contract heels cause thursh, see I taught you something!

No, contracted heels do not cause thrush.

[Dirty Little Secret]

After working through a conglomerate of local guys who were cheaper and created problems in my horses and certainly didn't help them at all I decided to bite the bullet and cough up the extra dough to have a World Renowned guy come shoe for me. His name is Bernard Pellitier and he comes from about 2 hours away to shoe for me. His standard price is $175 and he tacks on some for the extensive trip to my farm. We make sure he has everything he needs and always lots of thank-yous. He is the most amazing farrier I've ever met. Even set us up with a guy who's only an hour away who had interned with him for 5 years. His name is Everett Barlett and he comes when Bernard can't. It's expensive but SOOOO worth it! I wouldn't trade them for anything!

[feetfirst]

" Hoot, you stated: "Hooves grow slower, and faster at certains times of the year so I dicuss with my farrier when he needs to come back. Hooves should not go by a schedule, but by when needed."
The thing is, most quality farriers do work on a schedule, and you are in a no win situation. In order to attract what you feel you need, you have to compromise. What is the lessor of these two evils? Too frequent (in your opinion) quality hoof care, or damaging care?
Perhaps learning to trim your own is a viable option after all.

[Rick Burten]

contract heels cause thursh, see I taught you something!
Wrong again. Thrush is caused by a bacteria(Spheorphorus necrophorus/fusobactdrium necrophorum). This organism can only live in an anaerobic environment. It has been found that most manure and dirt contains this organism.

Perhaps now, you have learned something :)

[monstrpony]

Back in the old days the farriers would watch the horse at a walk and trot before shoeing and after shoeing.

Now they just put on the shoes and leave!

Ya know, I have a pretty darned good farrier. Have used him for about 8 years. I've been dealing with horses (and farriers) for over 40 years, and I've learned a lot in those years, and one of the things I've learned is that a good farrier can see things while the horse walks from his stall to the shoeing area that I do not see and never will. I do not question my farrier's judgement. I will ask questions to educate myself, but I don't second guess what he does. I certainly don't pass judgement on things I'm not educated enough to see. I do, in fact, have more formal education than my farrier (tho not by much, and I DO have PhD), but I do not have his eye and I do not have his feel, and those are things that no amount of formal education will teach. I respect those things tremendously, and very willingly pay for them.

The other thing I've learned about good farriers is that they know their territory, and know, courtesy of the grapevine, who they will be willing to take on, and who to tell that they aren't taking new clients (and, honestly, that can change, moment to moment). Over and over, I see people who think they know a lot about horses shoot themselves in the foot because they do not repsect farriers as the professionals that they are. Similarly with vets, feed suppliers, hay growers, etc.

If you're having that much trouble finding a good farrier, stop looking at your horse's feet, and look inside yourself. And, yes, it is QUITE possible for all eight of you to have the same problem.

Just a thought.

[LuvMyTB]

I have a farrier that I absolutely love. My boarding barn uses several farriers, some better than others, but all reputable and all do a decent job. It seems a little hard to believe that you can't find one good farrier in your area, but I don't know where you live so I don't know, maybe you really can't.

I am lucky to have my farrier. He has become a friend of mine and I truly hope he never moves away or gets injured and can't shoe my mare anymore. He does a great job, never hurries, explains everything to me, and is unbelievably affordable ($60 for all-around trim & front shoes)!

I guess I don't have any specific advice for you other than to echo what's already been said--beg and plead to get on the list with one of the good farriers that's "full." Pay extra, take whatever appointment he has available no matter how early/late it is......good luck!

[grayarabpony]

Ya know, I have a pretty darned good farrier. Have used him for about 8 years. I've been dealing with horses (and farriers) for over 40 years, and I've learned a lot in those years, and one of the things I've learned is that a good farrier can see things while the horse walks from his stall to the shoeing area that I do not see and never will. I do not question my farrier's judgement. I will ask questions to educate myself, but I don't second guess what he does. I certainly don't pass judgement on things I'm not educated enough to see. I do, in fact, have more formal education than my farrier (tho not by much, and I DO have PhD), but I do not have his eye and I do not have his feel, and those are things that no amount of formal education will teach. I respect those things tremendously, and very willingly pay for them.

The other thing I've learned about good farriers is that they know their territory, and know, courtesy of the grapevine, who they will be willing to take on, and who to tell that they aren't taking new clients (and, honestly, that can change, moment to moment). Over and over, I see people who think they know a lot about horses shoot themselves in the foot because they do not repsect farriers as the professionals that they are. Similarly with vets, feed suppliers, hay growers, etc.

If you're having that much trouble finding a good farrier, stop looking at your horse's feet, and look inside yourself. And, yes, it is QUITE possible for all eight of you to have the same problem.

Just a thought.


A good farrier is incredibly helpful; indispensable, even. The bad ones are disasters. And unfortunately there are a lot of bad ones out there.

[CuriosoJorge]

As crazy as I may be....

Truer words were never spoken.

[flshgordon]

Hooves grow slower, and faster at certains times of the year so I dicuss with my farrier when he needs to come back. Hooves should not go by a schedule, but by when needed. Just like feeding, every horse does not need to be fed by the lable instructions. Feed by the horse.


Perhaps you need to realize then that MOST of the world and that includes nearly all GOOD farriers, work on a schedule. You work that out with the farrier yourself, but in all the years my farrier has been with me, I have never once had any one of the problems you have mentioned with my horses, nor have their been any problems with time scheduling or hoof growth and they have been on the exact same 6 week schedule without fail. So perhaps it's time to stop trying to control the entire situation and suck up to one of the really good farriers and let them fix your horses in the manner they have found works for them. I guarantee you will never become a client of a good farrier if you think you just get to "call when you need them".

I still suspect we are not hearing the entire problem and if you have been through that many farriers, as a new farrier I would be suspicious of you as well so you would have to try extra hard to get me to work for you.

And thrush is definitely not caused by contracted heels.

[WildBlue]

That would come out to be 3 shoeings in six mounts, if you shod every 5 weeks, 3 jobs would be six or five months.

Eh?

3 x 5 weeks = 15 weeks
Roughly 4 weeks (actually more like 4-1/2 weeks) to the month gives 15/4 = less than 4 months

If the shoes were pulled two weeks into the third cycle, that gives
2 x 5 = 10
plus 2 weeks = 12

That's less than 3 months and nowhere near 6.

Just sayin'.

[deltawave]

I may be math impaired, but shoeing every 5 weeks comes out to just about 5 shoeings in 6 months for me. :confused:

6 months = 26 weeks. Three shoeings in 26 weeks is once every 8-9 weeks, not once every 5.

[Lookout]

Aw, come on. Farriers with phd's? I thought KC LaPierre was the only one.

[Rick Burten]

Aw, come on. Farriers with phd's? I thought KC LaPierre was the only one.
He is the only one with a 'store bought' Phoney Hoof Degree from the (in)famous on-line diploma mill, Middleham University.

Dr. Esco Buff is a PhD.
Dr. Mike Miller is an MD.

Both are practicing farriers. In Dr. Miller's case, he is also a practicing physician.

Drs Redden, Morrison, O'Grady et al are DVM's who have also practiced farriery.

[olympicdreams04]

I'm sorry guys and girls, but I have, quite possibly, the BEST farrier in the world. I don't mind sharing him, but he's in NY. I'm *trying* to convince him to come to FL this year and I have, to this point, been semi-successful. Anyone else have a buffalo-hunting farrier (haha yellow rose) from Ocala?

[Tom Stovall]

He is the only one with a 'store bought' Phoney Hoof Degree from the (in)famous on-line diploma mill, Middleham University.

Dr. Esco Buff is a PhD.
Dr. Mike Miller is an MD.

Both are practicing farriers. In Dr. Miller's case, he is also a practicing physician.

Drs Redden, Morrison, O'Grady et al are DVM's who have also practiced farriery.

As you know, Doug Butler, author of Principles of Horseshoeing and several other shoeing texts, has a PhD. :)

[Lucassb]

I have to say I am feeling very lucky to have the farrier that takes care of my horse. He is getting a very nice (and well deserved) Christmas present this week!!

He is a very skillled farrier. He is married to a former top showjumper, and really understands the demands of our sport. He also shows up when he says he will, does what he says he will and <gasp!> returns phone calls - usually the same day. :D

He is also rather expensive. Every once in a while I wince over the bill. Then I remember what it was like to have a not so good farrier... and all the vet bills that went along with him. And I write "thank you" in the memo section of the check...

[Rick Burten]

As you know, Doug Butler, author of Principles of Horseshoeing and several other shoeing texts, has a PhD. :)
Absolutely! Must have had a momentary attack of "Sometimers Disease". My apologies to Dr. Butler.

[Nezzy]

Since most farriers are booked in advance of 6-7 weeks, it might benefit you all to schedule ahead. Yes some horses might not grow much foot, but they might need to be rasped a bit to level out any imperfections. It is not easy for a busy farrier to fit someone into the schedule for a last minute call. i know my own farrier is good about emergencies, but that is b/c i pay him on time every time, and i treat him well( I always get to the barn a half an hour before my farrier and clean my horses feet and muddy legs, offer him a hot or cold drink depending on the weather, talk to him, ask him questions about what he thinks i should do, Etc..)but most farriers cannot just drop everything to come to the barn last minute. and certainly not for more than one horse. it is very inconvenient to them, and makes them feel like you do not appreciate their efforts.

[Manes&Tails]

Perhaps you need to realize then that MOST of the world and that includes nearly all GOOD farriers, work on a schedule. You work that out with the farrier yourself, but in all the years my farrier has been with me, I have never once had any one of the problems you have mentioned with my horses, nor have their been any problems with time scheduling or hoof growth and they have been on the exact same 6 week schedule without fail. So perhaps it's time to stop trying to control the entire situation and suck up to one of the really good farriers and let them fix your horses in the manner they have found works for them. I guarantee you will never become a client of a good farrier if you think you just get to "call when you need them".

I still suspect we are not hearing the entire problem and if you have been through that many farriers, as a new farrier I would be suspicious of you as well so you would have to try extra hard to get me to work for you.

And thrush is definitely not caused by contracted heels.

AS I ALREADY STATED, I MAKE MY NEXT APPOINTMENT WHILE HE IS THERE/BEFORE HE LEAVES, WE DISCUSS WHEN THE NEXT APPOINTMENT SHOULD BE BY TALKING OVER HOW LONG IT WAS BEFORE THIS VISIT AND WHAT HER HOOVES LOOKED. WHO IN THE RIGHT MIND WOULD THINK A FARRIER WOULD COME ASAP FOR EACH JOB! GOOD GREIF!!!!:eek:

[trubandloki]

What ever kind of person a farrier may think I am, I still have my horses hooves messed up and I am not the one that caused it! As crazy as I may be I am not the one doing the farrier work, and when I get a bad job I get several opinions from vets and other farrier friends and they tell me, yes your farrier messed up your horses. I have friends that are farriers, but do not do farrier work, because they other types of full time jobs.

I am confused.

You have friends that are farriers that see you struggling to get your horses done and see you struggling with horrible messed up feet caused by all the horrible farriers of the world and they are not willing to even help you out by either finding you someone qualified or do some work for you on the side (of their full time job)?

I would not count them as my friends, that is for sure.

And I do not think you need to yell at us. I did not see where you said before that you schedule your next appointment at the time of your current appointment. I actually read what you previously posted the same way everyone else took it. So please stop yelling at us.

[Manes&Tails]

" Hoot, you stated: "Hooves grow slower, and faster at certains times of the year so I dicuss with my farrier when he needs to come back. Hooves should not go by a schedule, but by when needed."
The thing is, most quality farriers do work on a schedule, and you are in a no win situation. In order to attract what you feel you need, you have to compromise. What is the lessor of these two evils? Too frequent (in your opinion) quality hoof care, or damaging care?
Perhaps learning to trim your own is a viable option after all.

GL, I discuss with my farrier at each visit when to come back and we make a date then, somethings its 5 weeks, 6 weeks or 7 weeks, it varies on if a show is coming up, etc. But an appointment is made at that time, while he is there to come back in 5,6 or 7 weeks. OK! CLEAR NOW!

[Lookout]

And I do not think you need to yell at us. I did not see where you said before that you schedule your next appointment at the time of your current appointment. I actually read what you previously posted the same way everyone else took it. So please stop yelling at us.
She does seem to have a communication problem. Could help to explain the other ones.

[Manes&Tails]

No, contracted heels do not cause thrush.

Yes, they do, have seen it with my own eyes and so have many other. When the heel is contracted by the shoe and you take the shoes off and not re shoe the heel spreads back out and sometimes there is then thrush.

[Auventera Two]

H&T - I understand what you're trying to get at with thrush, and in a way you are correct. Contracted heels can help harbor thrush and contribute to the pathology. But thrush is caused by an anaerobic bacteria. Since the bacteria needs a moist environment void of oxygen, contracted heels can contribute to the problem because they have deep grooves, usually with a deep central sulcus in which manure and wet shavings can pack. I know what you're trying to say, but it needs to be worded differently to be correct.

And it's not exactly a secret that great, healthy feet with correct form are less likely to develop thrush in the first place because the hoof is functioning optimally. When the hoof becomes compromised by poor structure and form, thrush is more likely to take hold.

[Tamara in TN]

the University farrier is 250.00, and all the farriers that do a good job that are recomended by the vets wont take on new clients.

so spend it....you have been fussing about farriers at least since July of this year....in five months you can't get $250 together to go see the guy at the University ??? and fwiw $250 is about right for standing on new iron all round..

Tamara in TN

[MistyBlue]

Contracted heels can make a better environment for thrush to grow...but contracted heels cannot produce thrush on their own. So if the stalls are dirty/wet or the turnout is a churned up soup of mud and manure...a horse is going to get thrush...and the ones with contracted heels will probably get it faster. But the contracted heels cannot get thrush without some bad footing conditions to begin with. :yes:

[AnotherRound]

MB, you're being reasonable. HT doesn't want to be reasonable, she wants to be dogmatic, extreme, and wanted to post a bash the farrier thread.

[2DogsFarm]

I think a lot of the problems in this country are due to those who call themselves farrier without the benefit of formal schooling.

Making the rounds shadowing a shoer for a few months does not a Master Farrier make.

I am not saying some of the non-formally schooled shoers do not do a good job. I myself learn things better from observing than through "booklearning".
But how many people ask for proof of a shoer's certification before hiring him/her to work on their horse?
The bulk of referrals come by word of mouth - my current shoer came recommended by my vet after his predecessor failed to do the job he had been paid for. I used #1 for 2 years before replacing him with my current shoer. #2 has been trimming/shoeing my horses for near 10 years now.
His assistant is his son, who I am hopeful will continue Dad's business when he retires.

Before them I had a string of shoers who started out great: reliable, decent work done... then degenerated into non-working, no-call-back, appointment-skipping so&sos!

[JoZ]

I have had a lot of the same problems H&T does. I went through a 2 year period of terrible farrier care, just couldn't get one that I liked. Of course none of my horses were "crippled" by this, they just weren't trimmed to my liking, and because of this the hooves grew out with lots of flaring and spreading.

I just kept trying. Yeah there are farriers that have too many clients or too busy a schedule. There are others that don't trim well. But it was my responsibility to keep plugging away, and at no time did I ever assume all farriers were crappy or out there crippling horses. I just had to work harder to find good ones. AND, here's a big thing, I had to TRAIN my silly young horses so the good ones would stay with me. Or be willing to accept a training fee from the farrier if Mr Terrible Twos needed a lengthy reminder of proper hoof etiquette. Now my friend and I have a barnful of horses we don't have to apologize for, and a SELECTION of farriers to choose from.

Another thing I did was speak to my vet. When I said "I'm trying out Mary Sunshine as a farrier" she was able to say "make sure she takes off enough heel". This worked with one farrier if I asked politely, and I only did so when I could clearly see what the vet was talking about. It didn't work with another, who got huffy. Understandable perhaps, but still, it was a relationship that didn't work out.

I can see venting but really it's way more productive to put that energy into figuring something out that works for you and your horses. Honestly, no one ever looks their best when they are ranting, and it does make one wonder about dealing with that attitude from a customer.

[grayarabs]

H&T - Can you post photos of the hooves? Really - if you are having that much trouble - it is a shame - since you live right by Texas A&M - one would think good farriers would be plentiful, but....?. (I think you also live within an hour of our Mr TS - wonder what his thoughts are on the locals). Do you want your horses shod? Ok with them barefoot?
If you trim yourselves - are you familiar with the barefoot websites - so you can study the do's and don'ts of trimming, etc? Good luck.

[Appassionato]

Yes, they do, have seen it with my own eyes and so have many other. When the heel is contracted by the shoe and you take the shoes off and not re shoe the heel spreads back out and sometimes there is then thrush.

No, contracted heels do not cause thrush. You've been given the cause more than once, and yet still refuse to see it.

I've finally decided others are right: you're here to rant instead of finding a solution to a problem. That was well illustrated by you when you proved you are just here to argue and NOT fix your problem. I'm also beginning to think the farriers in your area have rallied against "the crazy lady" and that's why they won't come nor allow you to haul in. I'd feel more sympathy for you if you'd get off your duft and do something for yourself instead of look at who and where else you can lay the blame of your life's failures. Poor horses!

[chaltagor]

H&T, you do know that the farriers all speak to each other, don't you? They are just like other professionals, going to conventions, taking CE courses, etc. Word gets around quickly about undesirable clients. I've yet to meet a farrier that didn't personally know the other farriers I've had in the past in my county. My mare was branded "do not touch" until she got more training, and my current farrier told me so. :lol: Didn't help that she was three when I got her and had never had her feet done before, but that's the way it was.

[feetfirst]

OK, you schedule your next appointment ahead of time, I apologize for mis-reading your post. No need to yell.
I wish you all the luck in solving your problems, and you obviously don't need any more help from me.

[Manes&Tails]

No, contracted heels do not cause thrush. You've been given the cause more than once, and yet still refuse to see it.

I've finally decided others are right: you're here to rant instead of finding a solution to a problem. That was well illustrated by you when you proved you are just here to argue and NOT fix your problem. I'm also beginning to think the farriers in your area have rallied against "the crazy lady" and that's why they won't come nor allow you to haul in. I'd feel more sympathy for you if you'd get off your duft and do something for yourself instead of look at who and where else you can lay the blame of your life's failures. Poor horses!

Yes, I did post this to Rant, I take very good care of my horses, part of that good care uncludes good farrier work. I did not vent here to fix the problem, I did it TO VENT while trying to fix the problem myslef. I did not mess up my horses hooves, crazy, or whatever I maybe, I did not cause the problem I am ranting about, I am sick of bad farrier work BECAUSE I CARE ABOUT MY HORSES, if I didn't care about them I would not have a farrier come out every 5,6 or 7 weeks. People tell me all the time how well I care of my horses, they can tell by just looking at them.

Yes, poor horses, they have no hooves, due to farrier work!! I feel bad for them also, that is why I am doing eveything I can to get them back where they need to be.

[Manes&Tails]

H&T - Can you post photos of the hooves? Really - if you are having that much trouble - it is a shame - since you live right by Texas A&M - one would think good farriers would be plentiful, but....?. (I think you also live within an hour of our Mr TS - wonder what his thoughts are on the locals). Do you want your horses shod? Ok with them barefoot?
If you trim yourselves - are you familiar with the barefoot websites - so you can study the do's and don'ts of trimming, etc? Good luck.

We have bunches of them and between me and several of the ladies at the barn we have been through many, and have not found one yet, so several of us are doing them ourselves until we can find one. They all do the same thing, hot nails, cut off the heal, leave the toe long and they are not balanced.

Are you talking about T bone?

[ThirdCharm]

My horses are trimed and shod every 5 to 7 weeks depending on the hoof growth between shoeings. So what ever that comes out to be. I work very hard to take very good care of my hoses including farrier work.


That is going to make it REALLY hard to get a good farrier to come out. The good farriers are not only overbooked, but they are overbooked MONTHS if not YEARS out and are on a strict 'rotation' (all my husband's clients are on a five week schedule--if they insist on going six weeks, or eight weeks, then they go elsewhere). They are not going to take on a client who is going to call to schedule only when their horse's feet look like they need doing and expect to be shoehorned into the already overflowing appt book. "Oh, whenever you have time" is what they always say.... which helps zip when he's already booked until 8 pm every night. And the answer to that is always "Oh, I don't mind if you come on the weekend....."

Whenever a new potential client calls us, almost always we already know who the last several farriers were who shod their horses, and what their "shoeing habits" are. If they're not going to stick to a schedule (among other things) they get "sorry, too busy". If they're good potential clients, we'll work them in.

Jennifer

[JoZ]

Honestly, it would be nice if people would read. I don't think H&T's ranting is particularly persuasive, but it still has been made clear that she does NOT call and try to get a farrier out when her horses need to be done. And to be honest, what she has described is what my farriers do too.
- We finish a day of trimming.
- Farrier pulls out appointment book and either
-says "there wasn't much to trim, we could probably go to 8 weeks since we're going into winter" or
-says "they are really starting to grow hoof, I recommend shortening up the cycle next time"
- JoZ makes appointment accordingly

Guess we don't have the rigidity that some places/farriers have. Now, H&T might have to trade this flexibility for a set place in a busy farrier's schedule. But it is NOT that odd, and it's a lot different from calling when she wants the farrier to come out.

[Manes&Tails]

That is going to make it REALLY hard to get a good farrier to come out. The good farriers are not only overbooked, but they are overbooked MONTHS if not YEARS out and are on a strict 'rotation' (all my husband's clients are on a five week schedule--if they insist on going six weeks, or eight weeks, then they go elsewhere). They are not going to take on a client who is going to call to schedule only when their horse's feet look like they need doing and expect to be shoehorned into the already overflowing appt book. "Oh, whenever you have time" is what they always say.... which helps zip when he's already booked until 8 pm every night. And the answer to that is always "Oh, I don't mind if you come on the weekend....."

Whenever a new potential client calls us, almost always we already know who the last several farriers were who shod their horses, and what their "shoeing habits" are. If they're not going to stick to a schedule (among other things) they get "sorry, too busy". If they're good potential clients, we'll work them in.

Jennifer

My vent/rant has nothing to do with booking and scheduling appointments it is what the farriers are doing to my horses when they get to the appointment.

An as far as appointments go I think it is much better for the HORSE, I mean that is who the farrier and owner or paying and doing the job for. Why would I put my horses hooves on a reg sch, how dumb, there are many reasons not to have a locked in schedule for the farrier what if your horses needs to be shod but you have a show coming up in five weeks and you locked in appointment if for 6 weeks, then you have a horse that is a little to long for the show. Many reason not to have a locked in date. The new farrier I am working with is helping me do it myself and when her hooves get long enough for him to start correcting her, then I am to call, so he is ok with this, this is how he wants to do it, and I agree, since she is too short and this is winter time we don't know until about a week before she will need him to come out.

I think you are wrong to think a horse should have a set date every shoeing, things come up inbetween that can make that date need to be changed. But, yes, be considerate and make the appointment as far ahead of time as you can. This is always dicussed before the farrier leaves.

Also I have never had a farrier quit me!

[Auventera Two]

Honestly, it would be nice if people would read. I don't think H&T's ranting is particularly persuasive, but it still has been made clear that she does NOT call and try to get a farrier out when her horses need to be done. And to be honest, what she has described is what my farriers do too.
- We finish a day of trimming.
- Farrier pulls out appointment book and either
-says "there wasn't much to trim, we could probably go to 8 weeks since we're going into winter" or
-says "they are really starting to grow hoof, I recommend shortening up the cycle next time"
- JoZ makes appointment accordingly

Guess we don't have the rigidity that some places/farriers have. Now, H&T might have to trade this flexibility for a set place in a busy farrier's schedule. But it is NOT that odd, and it's a lot different from calling when she wants the farrier to come out.

That's what I've always done also, and what I do now with horse owners. The other day I trimmed a gelding that I had trimmed 6 wks previous. There was very very little growth. He's an old horse who lives in a tiny lot, never works, never moves, and he just didn't grow. I suggested we do 8 weeks next time since we're going into winter anyway. When I go back in 8 wks we might evaluate and do something different at that time. You do what the horse needs.

[Auventera Two]

That is going to make it REALLY hard to get a good farrier to come out. The good farriers are not only overbooked, but they are overbooked MONTHS if not YEARS out and are on a strict 'rotation' (all my husband's clients are on a five week schedule--if they insist on going six weeks, or eight weeks, then they go elsewhere). They are not going to take on a client who is going to call to schedule only when their horse's feet look like they need doing and expect to be shoehorned into the already overflowing appt book. "Oh, whenever you have time" is what they always say.... which helps zip when he's already booked until 8 pm every night. And the answer to that is always "Oh, I don't mind if you come on the weekend....."Jennifer

Well that sucks. I'd prefer a farrier, or trimmer who doesn't over extend themselves to the point they cannot meet the needs of the horse. When it becomes all about making money, and nothing about the needs of the equine involved, then I'd be looking for another hoof care professional.

My endurance horse is trimmed every 4 weeks because 5 or 6 weeks of growth is too much imbalance for too long. She grows extremely fast, particularly in heel height. What if I wanted her done every 4 weeks because that's what she NEEDS. I would be SOL?

Hmm, again, that sucks.

What if a horse has a problem or pulls a shoe and you need the farrier out ASAP? Is the owner just SOL because they don't fit into the schedule? Oh yeah - I've had one of those farriers. Can't return calls, can't fit you in. Horse throws a shoe, and it's 3 days or more before they can get out because they are SO BUSY they don't have time to "squeeze you in" or they'll be late for the next appointment. Or you have questions and need to talk to them for an extra 15 minutes when they're there, but "Oop! Sorry! Gotta Run!" And they're off....

No thanks.

[flshgordon]

My vent/rant has nothing to do with booking and scheduling appointments it is what the farriers are doing to my horses when they get to the appointment.

An as far as appointments go I think it is much better for the HORSE, I mean that is who the farrier and owner or paying and doing the jog for. Why would I put my horses hooves on a reg sch, how dumb, there are many reasons not to have a locked in schedule for the farrier what if your horses needs to be shod but you have a show coming up in five weeks and you locked in appointment if for 6 weeks, then you have a horse that is a little to long for the shoe. Many reason not to have a locked in date. The new farrier I am working with is helping me do it myself and when her hooves get long enough for him to start correcting her, then I am to call, so he is ok with, this is how he wants to do it, and I agree, since she is too short and this is winter time we don't know until about a week before she will need him to come out.

I think you are wrong to think a horse should have a set date every shoeing, things come up inbetween that can make that date need to be changed. But, yes, be considerate and make the appointment as far ahead of time as you can. This is always dicussed before the farrier leaves.

Also I have never had a farrier quit me!

FABULOUS attitude...let's call what many successful, professional farriers do to schedule their business DUMB :rolleyes:

Nothing more to add other than it's obvious you have no intention of changing anything so you can perhaps work with a good farrier.

Since I have never had any of the problems you describe with my horses on an exact schedule, I must be dumb too!!!

[Lookout]

Well that sucks. I'd prefer a farrier, or trimmer who doesn't over extend themselves to the point they cannot meet the needs of the horse. When it becomes all about making money, and nothing about the needs of the equine involved, then I'd be looking for another hoof care professional.
Oh, come on :rolleyes: . It's never good enough for you, is it? What is the point of this?
Maybe it's about trying to accommodate the needs of the horses, and owners who are banging down their doors and begging them to work on their horses (like the people here have described) because they are good farriers. So they feel obliged to help out as many as possible. Because otherwise, the owners would be relegated to using the crap farriers that you are constantly telling us about, and then where would the horses be? Would that be better?


What if a horse has a problem or pulls a shoe and you need the farrier out ASAP? Is the owner just SOL because they don't fit into the schedule?

Oh, for Pete's sake :rolleyes: . Honestly. They come out at 9PM, or Sunday. Or leave little gaps in their schedule for the inevitable emergency. That's what makes them good farriers.

[Manes&Tails]

FABULOUS attitude...let's call what many successful, professional farriers do to schedule their business DUMB :rolleyes:

Nothing more to add other than it's obvious you have no intention of changing anything so you can perhaps work with a good farrier.

Since I have never had any of the problems you describe with my horses on an exact schedule, I must be dumb too!!!

Having the farrier come and work on my horses is for the horses not the farrier, not me. They may need something before or after the next shoeing. I can not tell my horse not to grow too fast or slow, not to pull a shoe, etc until a certain date.

[feetfirst]

I've got a client with kids that gymkana. One Saturday morning I got a call that one of their horses had pulled a shoe coming out of the trailer at the show. I was there within the hour, put the shoe back on, watched the horse trot out and was on my way. Later I heard back from the Mom that she had at least a half dozen other competitors come up and ask how they got the farrier to get there so quick. Her reply, I treat her right and pay too much:lol:

[deltawave]

We have bunches of them and between me and several of the ladies at the barn we have been through many, and have not found one yet, so several of us are doing them ourselves until we can find one.

How's that working for you, doing "do it yourself" hoof care? And you are blaming the farriers? I have pulled shoes when necessary, tightened a nail here and there and even on rare occasions taken a rasp to a bit of a split, but after 25+ years in horses I wouldn't feel even SLIGHTLY comfortable trimming or shaping a hoof. Best left to experts, IMO. :eek:

[MistyBlue]

Seriously? This thread is getting funny.
A farrier needs to keep a minimum of clients so that if you decide to schedule a show in relatively short time the farrier needs to be able to come out and put fresh shiny ones on for you? (a show is *not* for the horse's welfare, it's for the owners if the horse is not due to be shod. If the horse is due one week after the show time...the hooves will not be too overgrown. Shoeing appointments should not be made so far apart that the shoe is coming off or the foot is so overgrown it can't be shown)

Or if a horse loses a shoe the farrier needs to keep only a handful of clients and sit by the phone because you want them out to reshoe in less than 24 hours? :eek: 3 days is not bad for a farrier to get out there to reshoe for a missing shoe. The horse will be fine without a shoe for 3 days...if the feet are really bad/flaky stick a boot on that hoof and take 3 lousy days off riding. The horse is not going to lose condition or forget training in 3 days. The rider will not drop dead if they don't ride for 3 days. If there's a show...you pay premium and get the farrier out to reshoe that horse or have the show farrier do it for you.

If farriers kept only a small select client base so as to molly-coddle the high-maintanence owners...they'd be broke and not shoe anymore. No wonder why the good farriers don't take many new clients on...I wouldn't either if I had my clients telling me I had to restrict my income and deprive my family just in case they wanted me to come out at a moment's notice. :rolleyes:

I think I'll send my farrier a gift...he's wonderful and punctual and extremely professional. Very knowledgeable...keeps our 5-6 week schedule like clockwork. (and ya know what...if he's only taking a tiny bit off before reshoeing because the hooves grew slow in that time...I can deal with that instead of me trying to dictate his entire work schedule to change it every single shoeing) Poor man...hope he doesn't have to deal with this.

[Christa P]

How's that working for you, doing "do it yourself" hoof care? And you are blaming the farriers? I have pulled shoes when necessary, tightened a nail here and there and even on rare occasions taken a rasp to a bit of a split, but after 25+ years in horses I wouldn't feel even SLIGHTLY comfortable trimming or shaping a hoof. Best left to experts, IMO. :eek:


I am not the original poster, but I can say that doing a basic trim is not THAT difficult. I have no problems trimming and shaping a hoof and have done it many times. I have also dug out an abcess that was fortunately not deep (2 swipes with a hoof knife and I found it).

I would not nail a shoe on, but I will tighten a nail or remove a shoe if needed as well.

Christa P

[deltawave]

But would you tackle hooves that were "ruined", as the OP states?

[Christa P]

But would you tackle hooves that were "ruined", as the OP states?

It would depend on the hooves. "Ruined" could mean many things. If it was an issue with poor shoeing and balance and I had the time for the hooves to grow then I might, but if they were massivly overgrown, curled and foundered then I would definately call in an expert. It would be a case by case basis.


Christa P

Who actually does use a farrier for trims, but I have done my own in the past and would have no problems doing them again.

[katarine]

I loff my farrier, he's done such a great job getting my guys right, and good hooved. I am not afraid to ask him questions (I have a mix of stock and gaited horses, and I'm still learning this gaited thang)..and him being open and easy about chatting about options, is really, REALLY valuable to me.

FWIW we don't set the next appt at the time of shoeing: in fact, in this extended drought, he suggested I look at them at 5 weeks and see if 7 or 8 might be better- they aren't hardly growing any hoof right now, so let's give them more time and see if he gets more wall to work with that's not already compromised by nail holes.

He's kind hearted, easy on the horses, doesn't use a stand to crank the horse's hoof up for HIS comfort- I don't know how his back stands it...he's pretty quick to return a call and yes, he'll come in an emergency because:
a) I'm not crazy
b) my checks don't bounce
C) all of my horses are good for him, stand and snooze, that bunch
d) I APPRECIATE him and tell him so, routinely. There's also usually cold water in the summer, and Christmas tips, too.
3) he's a PROFESSIONAL.

I can't honestly believe the OP can't find a better solution. She's reminding me of a story my guy told. This one lady fired him about 2 years ago, and badmouthed him to boot...then called him back out. His price went up accordingly. Fired him AGAIN...and again, dogged him and called him back. She pays 125 for the same thing I pay 70 for. Go figure ;)

[Manes&Tails]

Seriously? This thread is getting funny.
A farrier needs to keep a minimum of clients so that if you decide to schedule a show in relatively short time the farrier needs to be able to come out and put fresh shiny ones on for you? (a show is *not* for the horse's welfare, it's for the owners if the horse is not due to be shod. If the horse is due one week after the show time...the hooves will not be too overgrown. Shoeing appointments should not be made so far apart that the shoe is coming off or the foot is so overgrown it can't be shown)

Or if a horse loses a shoe the farrier needs to keep only a handful of clients and sit by the phone because you want them out to reshoe in less than 24 hours? :eek: 3 days is not bad for a farrier to get out there to reshoe for a missing shoe. The horse will be fine without a shoe for 3 days...if the feet are really bad/flaky stick a boot on that hoof and take 3 lousy days off riding. The horse is not going to lose condition or forget training in 3 days. The rider will not drop dead if they don't ride for 3 days. If there's a show...you pay premium and get the farrier out to reshoe that horse or have the show farrier do it for you.

If farriers kept only a small select client base so as to molly-coddle the high-maintanence owners...they'd be broke and not shoe anymore. No wonder why the good farriers don't take many new clients on...I wouldn't either if I had my clients telling me I had to restrict my income and deprive my family just in case they wanted me to come out at a moment's notice. :rolleyes:

I think I'll send my farrier a gift...he's wonderful and punctual and extremely professional. Very knowledgeable...keeps our 5-6 week schedule like clockwork. (and ya know what...if he's only taking a tiny bit off before reshoeing because the hooves grew slow in that time...I can deal with that instead of me trying to dictate his entire work schedule to change it every single shoeing) Poor man...hope he doesn't have to deal with this.

I like to wait as long as I can, without going to long because I want enough hoof to cut off so I don't have all the nails holes left over from previous shoeing, and cause the hoof wall to break down, it does not have anything to do with money, etc, just what's best for the horse. One farrier was nailing the nails in so high, that after he shod her 3 times she had 2 or 3 sets of holes and her hoof walls broke out and she had no walls for months to nail a shoe in. I think he nailed so high up so he would not be called out to replace a shoe? Just think if she had hung a shoe, it would have really messed up her hoof!!!

[Manes&Tails]

How's that working for you, doing "do it yourself" hoof care? And you are blaming the farriers? I have pulled shoes when necessary, tightened a nail here and there and even on rare occasions taken a rasp to a bit of a split, but after 25+ years in horses I wouldn't feel even SLIGHTLY comfortable trimming or shaping a hoof. Best left to experts, IMO. :eek:

One lady could not find a good farrier so she bought a book, video and the tools and keeps all her horses trimmed, she has not had a lame horse yet and they are going barefoot.

Another lady had had pervious experience.

I am following instructions from a new farrier that is going to help me get them back right. They are so short that he can not do anything now, so I just keep a small section on each hoof of each horse rasped trying to slowly balance them back where they are not pigeoned toed. My yearling is so turned in (and she was very straight) that he may have to shoe her for a while to give her some heel support and help her turn back out.

[Beverley]

Well, I hope your rant made you feel better!

I've been using various and sundry farriers since 1965. Have come across very few real turkeys, thankfully.

If I recall your first post correctly, you complained that a farrier had completely messed up a horse's feet in three months. Which would mean, at least a couple of visits, I think. My question on that one is, why did you not deduce after the first visit that this was a 'bad' farrier?

I perceive from some things you've posted throughout the thread that you might just be what many farriers consider to be the 'know it all' type that they don't particularly wish to do business with. In other words, one who nitpicks anything and everything, good or bad, that 'any' farrier might be doing.

My present farrier, whom I've been using for a dozen years, is good enough and busy enough that he can pretty much pick his clients. Don't know why he still does mine as he really hates one of them! (A personality conflict, nothing really wrong with the horse.:)) But more than once, when he's been working on mine, and others come to ask whether he will do theirs, he just politely but succinctly says no.

Last farrier I used in Virginia really spoiled me- I could leave the check and he'd drop by, catch and shoe horses, and pick up the check.

I think I've made some of my own luck. I don't keep farriers waiting, present a clean, dry, well mannered horse to work on (and if a young 'un or potential behavior issue, I stay on the lead shank at all times), I pay promptly, and, maybe in reading this thread this last is the most important- I don't tell the farrier how to do his/her job.

[deltawave]

One lady could not find a good farrier so she bought a book, video and the tools and keeps all her horses trimmed, she has not had a lame horse yet and they are going barefoot.

Well there you go, 100% success. Ai yi yi. :no: Why don't you have her do yours?

[RockinHorse]

I just have to say that after reading this thread, I have decided to increase the Christmas tips I am giving to my farriers this year;)

[tds]

I like to wait as long as I can, without going to long because I want enough hoof to cut off so I don't have all the nails holes left over from previous shoeing...

:eek::eek::eek::eek:

That says it all. Wow.

[Rick Burten]

I like to wait as long as I can, without going to long because I want enough hoof to cut off so I don't have all the nails holes left over from previous shoeing, and cause the hoof wall to break down,
Flawed thinking.
just what's best for the horse.
Usually not.
One farrier was nailing the nails in so high, that after he shod her 3 times she had 2 or 3 sets of holes and her hoof walls broke out and she had no walls for months to nail a shoe in. I think he nailed so high up so he would not be called out to replace a shoe?
In most instances, higher nails are better than lower nails and it has nothing to do with shoe replacement. If your horse was breaking out her hoof walls, then there was something going on that was not noticed or dealt with. Generally speaking, farriers would prefer to drive their nails so that they exit the wall a minimum of one inch above the ground surface of the foot, or 1/3 the height of the wall.
Just think if she had hung a shoe, it would have really messed up her hoof!!!
Actually, the higher nails, especially if they have a short clinch, will do far less damage to the hoof wall than a low nail.

[Manes&Tails]

Well there you go, 100% success. Ai yi yi. :no: Why don't you have her do yours?

Because she works two jobs and has about 6,7 horses of her own to do and she weights about 100lbs soaking wet.

[Manes&Tails]

:eek::eek::eek::eek:

That says it all. Wow.

Several sets of nails holes is not good for the hoof. Makes them weak!

[deltawave]

Those dang skinny people, not worth a darn. :lol: :rolleyes:

I really can't go on. Don't want to be negative at Christmastime. I hope you find a farrier that will work with you and do right by your horses.

[Manes&Tails]

Those dang skinny people, not worth a darn. :lol: :rolleyes:

I really can't go on. Don't want to be negative at Christmastime. I hope you find a farrier that will work with you and do right by your horses.

Maybe I will find a good new farrier, and weigh 100lbs next year.

I have one farrier the came out and evaluated their hooves, he and his son have shod for many years, his son has the same name as one of my mares!
And he totally agrees with me what needs to be done and it will take about 3 or 4 months to get her back.

The two farriers that messed them up this time went to school with the last farrier that messed up.

[Manes&Tails]

Flawed thinking.

Usually not.

In most instances, higher nails are better than lower nails and it has nothing to do with shoe replacement. If your horse was breaking out her hoof walls, then there was something going on that was not noticed or dealt with. Generally speaking, farriers would prefer to drive their nails so that they exit the wall a minimum of one inch above the ground surface of the foot, or 1/3 the height of the wall.

Actually, the higher nails, especially if they have a short clinch, will do far less damage to the hoof wall than a low nail.


Maybe so, but I do not like my nails set high, and I know several other farriers and horse owners that don't either. Think about what you are doing to the wall everytime you drive a nail that high up through the wall.

[trubandloki]

:eek::eek::eek::eek:

That says it all. Wow.

tds, I agree!


I can not imagine waiting to do a trim until the nail holes have grown down enough that they are trimmed off.

Wow, talk about over grown foot.

[Manes&Tails]

tds, I agree!


I can not imagine waiting to do a trim until the nail holes have grown down enough that they are trimmed off.

Wow, talk about over grown foot.

I am not talking about one set of holes, I am talking about two old sets and one new set, that makes 3 sets of holes. Too many!

I have my horses shod every 4, 5, or 6 weeks. It is discussed with the farrier before he leaves and a next appoint is made. My yearling sometimes get their hooves trimmed every 4 weeks because they grow so fast with all the high protien feeds, etc.

My horses have never gone passed 6 weeks.

[Lookout]

I really can't go on.
Save yourselves!

[deltawave]

You have them shod every 4, 5 or 6 weeks.

Or three times in 6 months.

Or not at all, you trim them yourselves.

Or you shoe them when their nail holes have grown out.

Or you can't find anyone to do them at ALL.

Which is it? I'm getting dizzy! :lol:

[trubandloki]

You have them shod every 4, 5 or 6 weeks.

Or three times in 6 months.

Or not at all, you trim them yourselves.

Or you shoe them when their nail holes have grown out.

Or you can't find anyone to do them at ALL.

Which is it? I'm getting dizzy! :lol:

I'm with you!

[Rick Burten]

Maybe so, but I do not like my nails set high, and I know several other farriers and horse owners that don't either.
I take no responsibility for the faulty logic of others.
Think about what you are doing to the wall everytime you drive a nail that high up through the wall.
How high? Are you referring to the parameters I noted? If so, I know exactly what I am or am not doing to the wall. I also know what happens, and why, when low nails are driven and the horse pulls a shoe. Sometimes due to exigent circumstances, low nails are a reality. But that is not a standard for which anyone, save perhaps track farriers, should strive each and every day.

[Tamara in TN]

I take no responsibility for the faulty logic of others.
But that is not a standard for which anyone, save perhaps track farriers, should strive each and every day.

unless needed for some abnormality...I want nails high tight small and short clinches....every time....and my wonderful farrier of 11 plus years and I agree !! :D how easy is that ????

to the OP big nails which hold in plantation shoes can leave big holes and if the horses feet go or stay wet then they can soften and break off (esp if not balanced to the horse to begin with) it's not just about the holes left in a foot but the big picture...

Tamara in TN

[Auventera Two]

tds, I agree!


I can not imagine waiting to do a trim until the nail holes have grown down enough that they are trimmed off.

Wow, talk about over grown foot.

That's an unfair comment, and lacking in facts. How fast the hoof grows, and how often it's trimmed is dependent on many factors. I pulled the shoes on a horse, trimmed him, and when I returned in 5 weeks to trim again, I completely trimmed off the nail holes. He is a very young, healthy horse with a lot of hoof growth. The farrier didn't set them too high, and he was not overdue when I pulled the shoes.

[Manes&Tails]

http://s201.photobucket.com/albums/aa16/dkmccrady/?action=view&current=DSCF1421.jpg

http://s201.photobucket.com/albums/aa16/dkmccrady/?action=view&current=DSCF1408.jpg

Here are pictures of the hooves right after last shoeing, hooves too small, no heel, not balanced and both are now pigeoned toed.

I take very good care of my horses.

[trubandloki]

That's an unfair comment, and lacking in facts. How fast the hoof grows, and how often it's trimmed is dependent on many factors. I pulled the shoes on a horse, trimmed him, and when I returned in 5 weeks to trim again, I completely trimmed off the nail holes. He is a very young, healthy horse with a lot of hoof growth. The farrier didn't set them too high, and he was not overdue when I pulled the shoes.

So, you pulled the shoes, trimmed, wait five weeks and trimmed again and that second time you trimmed out the nail holes, right?

So in theory, those nail holes had 10 weeks to grow down.

The OP is saying she wants the nail holes trimmed out at that first appointment, not five weeks later.

So, I was being fair. If you let the hoof grow so much that a reset will cause the current nail holes to be trimmed off it is highly likely you let the poor creature get very over grown.

[Manes&Tails]

So, you pulled the shoes, trimmed, wait five weeks and trimmed again and that second time you trimmed out the nail holes, right?

So in theory, those nail holes had 10 weeks to grow down.

The OP is saying she wants the nail holes trimmed out at that first appointment, not five weeks later.

So, I was being fair. If you let the hoof grow so much that a reset will cause the current nail holes to be trimmed off it is highly likely you let the poor creature get very over grown.

On a new set of shoes I want one set of old holes, and one set of new, not a total of 3. When you nail high you end up with 3 sets.

[deltawave]

So your criteria on a good shoeing job is how many nail holes there are? I find that very odd. I don't care HOW many nail holes there are, as long as the FOOT is healthy and the shoes stay on. Sometimes there are 2 sets, sometimes 3, sometimes ONE...it depends on the horse, the time of year, how active they are, where the nails NEEDED to go, etc. etc. etc.

I kind of let the farrier decide where the nail holes go. If I told him where to put the nails, he'd (rightly) tell me where to stick my head, with its big mouth attached. :lol:

Are you firing your farriers, or are THEY firing you?

[trubandloki]

So your criteria on a good shoeing job is how many nail holes there are? I find that very odd. I don't care HOW many nail holes there are, as long as the FOOT is healthy and the shoes stay on. Sometimes there are 2 sets, sometimes 3, sometimes ONE...it depends on the horse, the time of year, how active they are, where the nails NEEDED to go, etc. etc. etc.

I kind of let the farrier decide where the nail holes go. If I told him where to put the nails, he'd (rightly) tell me where to stick my head, with its big mouth attached. :lol:


I am in total agreement with you.

It all depends. I most certainly would not tell my farrier they were not doing the right thing if I ended up with more than one row of left over nail holes.

I totally trust the professional I have hired (my farrier) to take care of my horses feet.

[BigMick]

I have pulled shoes when necessary, tightened a nail here and there and even on rare occasions taken a rasp to a bit of a split, but after 25+ years in horses I wouldn't feel even SLIGHTLY comfortable trimming or shaping a hoof. Best left to experts, IMO. :eek:

Which is one of the reasons why your beloved Gwennie is sound and going well in her 20's!!!!

I completely agree about leaving it to the EXPERTS.

My blacksmith, Conrad Trow, is a CJF, instructs at the local school, and competes on the national horseshoeing team - winning international competitions.

He is not only a great blacksmith, but a great horseman and an all-around great human being.

I believe that there are certain aspects of horse ownership that are well worth the money spent. Horseshoeing is at the top of that list. A complete set with Equi-thane pour-in pads up front costs $220. Mick has never been sounder than under his care. Worth. Every. Penny.

My job? Hold the horse, discipline said horse, pay the bill (on time), ask questions and learn more, but essentially to shut the **** up and don't try to tell him his job. Oh, and I bring him homebrew when a batch is ready! ;)

It's never "Conrad, I want you to come in five weeks." It's more like... "Conrad, do you anticipate needing to change the frequency of when you come next based on his hoof growth, seasonality, etc?" "Is there anything I can do to make him healthier or take better care of his feet?" If he were to tell me to knit little booties for him then, by god, I'm off to buy some yarn - he's the boss of Mick's feet, not me. (okay, he would never say that, but you get my point.)


hoofrx1, this thread must make you want to beat your head against the wall.

[Rick Burten]

Here are pictures of the hooves right after last shoeing, hooves too small, no heel, not balanced and both are now pigeoned toed.
Neither of those pictures show any such thing. Besides, taking pictures when the horse is standing on dirt, and what is not truly flat, hard, level ground, is no way to try and bolster your case.

[7HL]

H&T It appears that you have this issue with farriers in general, at least looking through you previous post on this board. So is the farrier that you are complaining about here the same one you were complaining about in this post? http://www.chronicleforums.com/Forum/showpost.php?p=2540178&postcount=23 Or a different one? If it's the same one let it go, If it's a different one maybe you need to look in the mirror.

[Rick Burten]

My blacksmith, Conrad Trow, is a CJF,
You are a very fortunate person!
hoofrx1, this thread must make you want to beat your head against the wall.
Stuff like this used to. Now however, I force my self to laugh because crying would ruin my keyboard.

[BigMick]

You are a very fortunate person!

And I'm well-aware of it and thank him every time I see him for the wonderful work he does. Every sound step he takes belongs to Conrad and the other professionals I'm lucky enough to have on my "team" of wellness.

[luvs2ride79]

Very few, and those that are good are so busy that they are not good because of the wait! lol I gave up and trim myself now, and use boots for trail riding (both horses do fine barefoot for arena work and putzing around in the pastures). I bought Pete Ramey's books and read all of the articles on his web site. I drove 4 hours to go to my friend's to meet her natural trimmer and have him give me some pointers. I have been trimming my own for nearly a year now and I really like the results! Both horses' hooves look better than ever, and my slow poky mare is actually starting to stride out now! Pete Ramey just came out with a 10-disk DVD set that is like a full training course on natural trimming. It's $250, but worth every-penny (so I've heard). I think I will buy it for a Christmas present for myself, lol.

Ramey's web site: http://www.hoofrehab.com You can find his book on Amazon.com and Half.com.

I have found that trimming my own horses is a real bonding experience, great training time, and you get to know your horse even better. I find myself really critiquing my horses' movement and foot falls much more. I "know" when something is "off" a lot quicker than I did before. Plus, the money savings is awesome! lol I was a bit expensive at first, I bought a hoof jack/stand thing (which I HIGHLY recommend!) plus all the goodies. I buy mine from: http://www.centaurforge.com If your horses have hard feet, I HIGHLY recommend Hoof Marvel. It did wonders to help rasp and nip my Anglo's feet, which were like rocks! lol

Here are the different tools I have had good luck with:
http://www.centaurforge.com/departments.asp?dept=79
http://www.centaurforge.com/prodinfo.asp?number=0241
http://www.centaurforge.com/prodinfo.asp?number=NCCRADLE
http://www.centaurforge.com/prodinfo.asp?number=SIMAX
http://www.centaurforge.com/prodinfo.asp?number=SAVEHANDLE
http://www.centaurforge.com/prodinfo.asp?number=FN12
http://www.centaurforge.com/prodinfo.asp?number=WBSP
http://www.centaurforge.com/prodinfo.asp?number=271RH
http://www.centaurforge.com/prodinfo.asp?number=EZELAPLG

See, told you it wasn't cheap to get started ;). But, it's well worth it, IMO. No longer do I have to worry about a lost shoe, a missed farrier appointment, and a farrier who won't return my phone calls! Wow, that right there is worth the above expense.... :D.

[Tamara in TN]

[QUOTE=Hoot&Tick;2880907]http://s201.photobucket.com/albums/aa16/dkmccrady/?action=view&current=DSCF1421.jpg


seems to me the blue roan has deviated front legs from the knees down and his feet would wear oddly due to the build above it....


http://s201.photobucket.com/albums/aa16/dkmccrady/?action=view&current=DSCF1408.jpg

this grey seems born with the ever popular "too small a cannon and hoof for her/his body"...uber heavy on the forehand as well as some odd pasterns...there is heel on those feet and while the nails do seem set low the hoof itself may not be lending itself to higher clinches....

if you waited for this horse to grow our it's "too small genetically to begin with foot" you could risk some real real wear and tear issues....as it's weight bearing down on the hoof will do more than a farrier could "undo"....

but I ain't a farrier nor do I play one on TV...

Tamara in TN

[Tiempo]

Neither of those pictures show any such thing. Besides, taking pictures when the horse is standing on dirt, and what is not truly flat, hard, level ground, is no way to try and bolster your case.

Ditto.

[Manes&Tails]

Ditto.
The only pictures I have at this time, best I could do! These were not taken for this thread, just what I had on hand.

[Manes&Tails]

[QUOTE]


seems to me the blue roan has deviated front legs from the knees down and his feet would wear oddly due to the build above it....



this grey seems born with the ever popular "too small a cannon and hoof for her/his body"...uber heavy on the forehand as well as some odd pasterns...there is heel on those feet and while the nails do seem set low the hoof itself may not be lending itself to higher clinches....

if you waited for this horse to grow our it's "too small genetically to begin with foot" you could risk some real real wear and tear issues....as it's weight bearing down on the hoof will do more than a farrier could "undo"....

but I ain't a farrier nor do I play one on TV...

Tamara in TN

Yes, I know about the front knee! It is from and injury and/or growth spirt. I have the vet take xrays every few months to check on it. That is why I was so upset with the last farrier when his stepson ran her aound the round pen after I just told him she has a hurt knee and just spent 300.00 at the vet. He is a damn good farrier!

[Tamara in TN]

[QUOTE=Tamara in TN;2881085]

Yes, I know about the front knee! It is from and injury and/or growth spirt. I have the vet take xrays every few months to check on it. That is why I was so upset with the last farrier when his stepson ran her aound the round pen after I just told him she has a hurt knee and just spent 300.00 at the vet. He is a damn good farrier!

I am not trying to upset you...I am saying that both pictures present horses that cannot be given optimum care by anything less than (probably) the university farrier that you do not want to give $250 to...

horses that are deformed or are poorly built are (as far as feet go) expensive high maintance horses....

I would think the grey will require shoeing to keep her weight from crushing her heels as she is so forehand heavy all that weight bears out on the feet...and in the beginning this may be every 4 weeks...until she grows some foot down...but one pulled shoe and a week to reset could wear/break it all off....and you'd start all over again...

the blue roan has a issue that needs a farrier who has his xrays and can read them and can adjust what is "normally" done to that particular animal....and his feet may NEVER look normal....as he will NEVER be normal...the feet are just the maps to what lies above them....

both of these animals are past what I would think an "average" nip and rasp farrier could manage...

Tamara in TN

[Auventera Two]

Please explain how you think a shoe "prevents" heels from being crushed, what type of shoe, and how it is placed.

[Tamara in TN]

Please explain how you think a shoe "prevents" heels from being crushed, what type of shoe, and how it is placed.

a proper shoe gives protection from uneven wear...no matter what barefooters would say...this animal is over heavy and has genetically inferior feet and lower limbs....this is how she was bred to be...left to her own to travel 14 miles a day or more she would have already been coyote bait...

Tamara in TN

[elctrnc]

a proper shoe gives protection from uneven wear...no matter what barefooters would say...this animal is over heavy and has genetically inferior feet and lower limbs....this is how she was bred to be...left to her own to travel 14 miles a day or more she would have already been coyote bait...

Tamara in TN

I think the point was that even horses in shoes get crushed heels. Of course, a good farrier can prevent them, but just the application of shoes does not.

[tds]

I am not talking about one set of holes, I am talking about two old sets and one new set, that makes 3 sets of holes. Too many!

You need to practice typing what you wish to communicate because that is NOT what you typed.

And I quote (again):

I like to wait as long as I can, without going to long because I want enough hoof to cut off so I don't have all the nails holes left over from previous shoeing,

Previous shoeing, singular, referring to the one before... not so much the one before and the one before and so on and so on.

high nails are awesome and low nails = problems in my neck of the woods, but then again I have a very good farrier and have somehow managed to keep him (he is not allowed to leave) for 8 years now.

(...waiting for an ALLCAPSRESPONSE) :D

[RockinHorse]

My blacksmith, Conrad Trow, is a CJF
... If he were to tell me to knit little booties for him then, by god, I'm off to buy some yarn...

Okay who know this guy well enough to ask him to tell BigMick that his/her horse really needs to wear booties :D:lol::lol::lol::D

[Tamara in TN]

I think the point was that even horses in shoes get crushed heels. Of course, a good farrier can prevent them, but just the application of shoes does not.

very true...which I why I made the point that the OP maybe needs to use the good farrier she has mentioned as too expensive....now expensive don't mean better and cheaper don't mean worse :)

but if these were my animals I would know that "mr hang a shingle" isn't gonna get the job done...

and for any records being kept, not one of my 26 has shoes...as we are doing nothing with any of them other than eating Calvin hay :lol::lol: but the moment I consider "doing" again...we will see if what I want to do needs shoes....

Tamara in TN

[AnotherRound]

H&T It appears that you have this issue with farriers in general, at least looking through you previous post on this board. So is the farrier that you are complaining about here the same one you were complaining about in this post? http://www.chronicleforums.com/Forum...8&postcount=23 (http://www.chronicleforums.com/Forum/showpost.php?p=2540178&postcount=23) Or a different one? If it's the same one let it go, If it's a different one maybe you need to look in the mirror.


This thread truly makes my head spin. Its apparent she has farrier issues, and doesn't want any responses which contradict her bull-headedness about these feet. She will never see but what she wants to see. I don't see anythign she described on those feet. This is a typical example of a little knowlege is a dangerous thing. H&T, you THINK you know what you are talking about, but you don't, your logic is flawed and your information is wrong and your conclusions are way out there. Apparently you don't want to be told that so what are you looking for? I say Let it go. If you don't like farriers, don't use them, and let your horses feet go. Trim them off when they get long looking. Go ahead and build up more heel. They have alot of conformation problems to start with, so shoeing isn't going to save them anyway, you're right - you should do what YOU think is right. Don't call any farriers. They probably don't come out when you call, anyway.

[deltawave]

If you'd stop taking X-rays "every few months" of a conformation problem that no amount of filming is going to help, you'd have PLENTY of money for a superior farrier. How odd it gets as you go deeper and deeper...X rays every few months? Really? Why?

This just gets curiouser and curiouser.

[TBROCKS]

First it was:
"Most of us ladies at my stables have purchased our own tools, and are trimming our own horses. We might not be doing it correctly, but at least we are not cutting the hoof down to nothing and putting in hot nails!!!
A good farrier is very much needed, but if I can't find a good one I rather not have one at all."


Then it became:
"The new farrier I am working with is helping me do it myself and when her hooves get long enough for him to start correcting her, then I am to call, so he is ok with this, this is how he wants to do it, and I agree, since she is too short and this is winter time we don't know until about a week before she will need him to come out."

Please explain to me the purpose of this entire thread if you've already found another farrier, and in fact are working with him?

[AnotherRound]

Excellent sleuthing, TBRocks - Picking that out of this thread takes a special skill. I'd like to know the answer to that question, too.

[TBROCKS]

I believe the answer starts with a "d" and ends in "rama", AnotherRound.

[rmh]

[QUOTE=Tamara in TN;2881272]a proper shoe gives protection from uneven wear...no matter what barefooters would say....

Many barefooters I know don't say this. They just think a barefoot hoof is healthier. A properly trimmed and balanced hoof doen't show uneven wear either. This isn't a shoe vs barefoot subject. I'm not sure what it is about though with all the conflicting and non-sensible dribble fom the op.

[Auventera Two]

I think the point was that even horses in shoes get crushed heels. Of course, a good farrier can prevent them, but just the application of shoes does not.

Exactly. Heels become "crushed" because the heel tubules are weak, overgrown and bending/growing toward the toe. The tubule is bent, and continues to grow bent until the heel is brought to the widest part of the frog, and encouraged to grow down straight.....shoes, or no shoes. The worst cases of crushed heels I've ever seen were in eggbar shoes. One of our TB mares always had crushed heels regardless of the shoes worn. The underlying trim is the most important factor in managing and correcting crushed heels. If you shoe or not is not the issue.

[BigMick]

Okay who know this guy well enough to ask him to tell BigMick that his/her horse really needs to wear booties :D:lol::lol::lol::D


Hmmm...what color would Mick would like??? click clack click clack (BigMick starts knitting her horse some booties...)

:D

[Manes&Tails]

Excellent sleuthing, TBRocks - Picking that out of this thread takes a special skill. I'd like to know the answer to that question, too.

Yes, the new farrier seems very nice, but, he has not started on correcting them until their hooves grow out, so I am to rasp the hooves once a week very lightly in the same spot on each hoof, use hoof conditioner until it looks like they are at a point where her can start working on them, so for this month I am learning to do it myself.

I did not tell him what I though was the problem on his first visit two weeks after they were shoded and trimmed; to see what he thought without me saying anythingh. He said the same thing I was thinking, so I am crossing my fingers that my horses will have great hooves (for them, since someone pointed out how poorly made my horses were) with the new farrier and with my new skills.

As of now Iam the only one working on them.

[qhgirl1]

I The horses are better off just going without shoes, wearing the hoof off themselfs and being barefoot, at least they want get contracted heels.

!!

I haven't read the whole thread yet but I just wanted to say that being barefoot does not mean a horse won't have contracted heels. My horse is 7 years old and has only worn shoes for 2 months out of 7 years and he does have contracted heels.

[rmh]

Exactly. Heels become "crushed" because the heel tubules are weak, overgrown and bending/growing toward the toe. The tubule is bent, and continues to grow bent until the heel is brought to the widest part of the frog, and encouraged to grow down straight.....shoes, or no shoes. The worst cases of crushed heels I've ever seen were in eggbar shoes. One of our TB mares always had crushed heels regardless of the shoes worn. The underlying trim is the most important factor in managing and correcting crushed heels. If you shoe or not is not the issue.

The trim, the trim, the trim...........

[TBROCKS]

Yes, the new farrier seems very nice, but, he has not started on correcting them until their hooves grow out, so I am to rasp the hooves once a week very lightly in the same spot on each hoof, use hoof conditioner until it looks like they are at a point where her can start working on them, so for this month I am learning to do it myself.

I did not tell him what I though was the problem on his first visit two weeks after they were shoded and trimmed; to see what he thought without me saying anythingh. He said the same thing I was thinking, so I am crossing my fingers that my horses will have great hooves (for them, since someone pointed out how poorly made my horses were) with the new farrier and with my new skills.

As of now Iam the only one working on them.

But what about when you said all of you "are trimming our own horses." ?

Nine pages into the thread, we get the real version of what's going on. And it's vastly different from page one, where you painted the picture of a group of brave pioneer "ladies", fearlessly tackling the job of horsehoeing WITH THEIR OWN TOOLS because there isn't a farrier within miles worth a dam. Hoot, do you stir up crap like this at your barn, too?

[Manes&Tails]

But what about when you said all of you "are trimming our own horses." ?

Nine pages into the thread, we get the real version of what's going on. And it's vastly different from page one, where you painted the picture of a group of brave pioneer "ladies", fearlessly tackling the job of horsehoeing WITH THEIR OWN TOOLS because there isn't a farrier within miles worth a dam. Hoot, do you stir up crap like this at your barn, too?

I told the ladies at the barn tonight about some of the comments made her about my horses and me, and they said some of what was posted was what was crap!!!!

[Manes&Tails]

But what about when you said all of you "are trimming our own horses." ?

Nine pages into the thread, we get the real version of what's going on. And it's vastly different from page one, where you painted the picture of a group of brave pioneer "ladies", fearlessly tackling the job of horsehoeing WITH THEIR OWN TOOLS because there isn't a farrier within miles worth a dam. Hoot, do you stir up crap like this at your barn, too?

I start a lot of BS, but not C!!!:lol:

I have many friends there, that is why I pay board when I could keep my horses at home for free!:yes:

Speaking of C, I am taking the BM a huge box of TP for Christmas, I found out tonight she has been having to pay for it!!

[deltawave]

The ladies at the barn have spoken. :lol:

[Manes&Tails]

The ladies at the barn have spoken. :lol:

Yes, they did and they said this is why they are not on and do not read any of the forums anymore because some are just out to be mean!:no:

I agreed and said I stay because there are more nice then mean, and I learn a lot, and hopefully I help others in return!:winkgrin::):D:lol:;):yes:

Merry Christmas to all!!!!!!!!!!!:winkgrin:

[Appassionato]

Neither of those pictures show any such thing. Besides, taking pictures when the horse is standing on dirt, and what is not truly flat, hard, level ground, is no way to try and bolster your case.

The broken HPA raised questions for me...especially at such a young age.

If you'd stop taking X-rays "every few months" of a conformation problem that no amount of filming is going to help, you'd have PLENTY of money for a superior farrier. How odd it gets as you go deeper and deeper...X rays every few months? Really? Why?

This just gets curiouser and curiouser.

X-rays on what? I looked for it, and couldn't find it. I'm not insinuating that you were lying at all...sincerely asking here. Post number perhaps?

But I do have to ask, how does it feel now, in that you know *something*, at some folk's blatant disregard for their animals? Just wait till you "learn" more. Then it's really hard to keep your mouth shut. :winkgrin: I'm not trying to be mean here; actually I'm keeping it real. Not every horse can go forever with bad hoof care. And it can be quite frustrating for those of us that did the footwqork beforehand and STILL lost. Again, NOT being mean here. Just saying. FWIW, I agree with your thoughts!

Yes, the new farrier seems very nice, but, he has not started on correcting them until their hooves grow out, so I am to rasp the hooves once a week very lightly in the same spot on each hoof, use hoof conditioner until it looks like they are at a point where her can start working on them, so for this month I am learning to do it myself.

You are to rasp WHAT once a week? Until WHAT grows out?

Hoof conditioner? Which one?

Until THEY can handle it???

I did not tell him what I though was the problem on his first visit two weeks after they were shoded and trimmed; to see what he thought without me saying anythingh. He said the same thing I was thinking, so I am crossing my fingers that my horses will have great hooves (for them, since someone pointed out how poorly made my horses were) with the new farrier and with my new skills.

As of now Iam the only one working on them.

You didn't give the farrier full info, just to see what would happen??? You put your ego ABOVE the horses' welfare??? And NOW you say you crossed your fingers??? You have a new farrier with new skills, but as of now you are the only one working on them???

Whatever. I call BS.

[Thomas_1]

Well I've always had brilliant farriers that have kept my horses such that I'm able to get optimum performance out of them.

However I suspect that with an attitude like the OP's that its hardly surprising she's struggling to find a decent farrier. I also find it totally incredible that someone doesn't have the wit and wherewithall to get a decent farrier. Of which there are plenty. And yet they feel blessed with the ability to go trim their own horse's feet.

I don't know what the OP does with his her horses but I hope its not a lot!

[ddashaq]

I start a lot of BS, but not C!!!:lol:

I have many friends there, that is why I pay board when I could keep my horses at home for free!:yes:

Speaking of C, I am taking the BM a huge box of TP for Christmas, I found out tonight she has been having to pay for it!!


Color me confused, but don't most people pay for their TP?

Hope the situation with the farrier works out.:)

[deltawave]

App, are you asking me these questions or the OP? :confused: The serial X rays were mentioned on post 145.

I'm afraid I don't follow your comments above at all. Sorry. :(

[Appassionato]

Are you asking me these questions or the OP? :confused:

Me? The ones I asked of you, some are rhetorical questions that need not be answered unless you feel you need to...the questions on x-rays, yes I would like a post number to if you happen to know which post it was. I fished around and couldn't find it.

I see you have the post number, thanks!

[deltawave]

But I do have to ask, how does it feel now, in that you know *something*, at some folk's blatant disregard for their animals? Just wait till you "learn" more. Then it's really hard to keep your mouth shut. :winkgrin: I'm not trying to be mean here; actually I'm keeping it real. Not every horse can go forever with bad hoof care. And it can be quite frustrating for those of us that did the footwqork beforehand and STILL lost. Again, NOT being mean here. Just saying. FWIW, I agree with your thoughts!

This part? Man, I must be more obtuse than usual tonight...cannot fathom exactly what it is you are specifically asking of me. How do I feel "now"? As compared to when? Have I ever given the impression I've been an advocate of bad hoof care or somehow unconcerned with horse feet? :confused: I'm totally at sea here.

[Appassionato]

This part? Man, I must be more obtuse than usual tonight...cannot fathom exactly what it is you are specifically asking of me. How do I feel "now"? As compared to when? Have I ever given the impression I've been an advocate of bad hoof care or somehow unconcerned with horse feet? :confused: I'm totally at sea here.

No, you haven't been an advocate of bad hoof care. I never said that.

[Appassionato]

this grey seems born with the ever popular "too small a cannon and hoof for her/his body"...uber heavy on the forehand as well as some odd pasterns...there is heel on those feet and while the nails do seem set low the hoof itself may not be lending itself to higher clinches....

if you waited for this horse to grow our it's "too small genetically to begin with foot" you could risk some real real wear and tear issues....as it's weight bearing down on the hoof will do more than a farrier could "undo"....

but I ain't a farrier nor do I play one on TV...

Tamara in TN

The thoughts *I* had about the mare was the post legged hinds and broken HPA for such a young horse...has this been researched, Hoot&Tick?

[Manes&Tails]

The broken HPA raised questions for me...especially at such a young age.



X-rays on what? I looked for it, and couldn't find it. I'm not insinuating that you were lying at all...sincerely asking here. Post number perhaps?

But I do have to ask, how does it feel now, in that you know *something*, at some folk's blatant disregard for their animals? Just wait till you "learn" more. Then it's really hard to keep your mouth shut. :winkgrin: I'm not trying to be mean here; actually I'm keeping it real. Not every horse can go forever with bad hoof care. And it can be quite frustrating for those of us that did the footwqork beforehand and STILL lost. Again, NOT being mean here. Just saying. FWIW, I agree with your thoughts!




You are to rasp WHAT once a week? Until WHAT grows out?

Hoof conditioner? Which one?

Until THEY can handle it???



You didn't give the farrier full info, just to see what would happen??? You put your ego ABOVE the horses' welfare??? And NOW you say you crossed your fingers??? You have a new farrier with new skills, but as of now you are the only one working on them???

Whatever. I call BS.

The new farrier discussed what care my horses needed,when, where and what? And we both thought the same. There was nothing for him to work on when he came, we just talked.

I have had 2 sets of xrays of my yearlings knee since she hurt it!

[Manes&Tails]

The thoughts *I* had about the mare was the post legged hinds and broken HPA for such a young horse...has this been researched, Hoot&Tick?

What is an HPA?

None of my horse are post legged!

I have been told buy some of the top trainers and qH judges that my grey mare is a very nice mover, the kind of mover the top trainers look for! She placed 10th, at the stock horse show in Ft worth out of 67 horses.

My father is a vet, but not a horse vet, but I have conections with the best, they see my horses on a regular bases.

[Manes&Tails]

Color me confused, but don't most people pay for their TP?

Hope the situation with the farrier works out.:)

she has been buying the tp for the barn folks!!

[Manes&Tails]

Well I've always had brilliant farriers that have kept my horses such that I'm able to get optimum performance out of them.

However I suspect that with an attitude like the OP's that its hardly surprising she's struggling to find a decent farrier. I also find it totally incredible that someone doesn't have the wit and wherewithall to get a decent farrier. Of which there are plenty. And yet they feel blessed with the ability to go trim their own horse's feet.

I don't know what the OP does with his her horses but I hope its not a lot!

Well the last farrier called me tonight and wanted to know if he could come out tomorrow or next week!! Funny, he called me! And lets see, if her were to come out tomorrow that would be almost five weeks since the last visit. Surely they are not way over grown by tomorrow. But, no, I am not having him come back out, I think he is a very nice person and tried, but it was not working for my horses.

[Manes&Tails]

[QUOTE]


seems to me the blue roan has deviated front legs from the knees down and his feet would wear oddly due to the build above it....


The xrays show the leg is growing striaght and correct from the knee down, my vet is pres of the race horse assoc. he knows what he is talking about.


In all my years of horse judging contest we looked for short cannon bones.






this grey seems born with the ever popular "too small a cannon and hoof for her/his body"...uber heavy on the forehand as well as some odd pasterns...there is heel on those feet and while the nails do seem set low the hoof itself may not be lending itself to higher clinches....

if you waited for this horse to grow our it's "too small genetically to begin with foot" you could risk some real real wear and tear issues....as it's weight bearing down on the hoof will do more than a farrier could "undo"....

but I ain't a farrier nor do I play one on TV...

Tamara in TN

The xrays show the leg is growing striaght and correct from the knee down, my vet is pres of the race horse assoc. he knows what he is talking about.

[Appassionato]

What is an HPA?

None of my horse are post legged!

I have been told buy some of the top trainers and qH judges that my grey mare is a very nice mover, the kind of mover the top trainers look for! She placed 10th, at the stock horse show in Ft worth out of 67 horses.

My father is a vet, but not a horse vet, but I have conections with the best, they see my horses on a regular bases.

You're asking me what HPA is yet your father was a vet???

The new farrier discussed what care my horses needed,when, where and what? And we both thought the same. There was nothing for him to work on when he came, we just talked.

I thought you had cripples....leftover from other farriers? Or is this back to the "yeah...any horse owner can trim 'till I get back" kind of thinking? If so, "yeah", you've got problems. Then again, realize that every horse isn't crippled. This is a gray area. And one that even COTHers can't slam without seeing your horse trim cycle to trim cycle and x-ray to x-ray (involving the hoof as well as knee, and not in the horse *I* picked on). Only the proper diagnostics will reveal the answer. It is a hard lesson to learn, because I've been there. Even recently.

[Manes&Tails]

This thread truly makes my head spin. Its apparent she has farrier issues, and doesn't want any responses which contradict her bull-headedness about these feet. She will never see but what she wants to see. I don't see anythign she described on those feet. This is a typical example of a little knowlege is a dangerous thing. H&T, you THINK you know what you are talking about, but you don't, your logic is flawed and your information is wrong and your conclusions are way out there. Apparently you don't want to be told that so what are you looking for? I say Let it go. If you don't like farriers, don't use them, and let your horses feet go. Trim them off when they get long looking. Go ahead and build up more heel. They have alot of conformation problems to start with, so shoeing isn't going to save them anyway, you're right - you should do what YOU think is right. Don't call any farriers. They probably don't come out when you call, anyway.

He called tonight!!!

[MistyBlue]

Hoot...I think the issues you may find yourself having on this BB is that you don't seem to be clear at all in your posts/replies. The many contradictions...the capitalized ranting...the odd claims...they don't add up.
Well the last farrier called me tonight and wanted to know if he could come out tomorrow or next week!! Funny, he called me! And lets see, if her were to come out tomorrow that would be almost five weeks since the last visit. Surely they are not way over grown by tomorrow. But, no, I am not having him come back out, I think he is a very nice person and tried, but it was not working for my horses.
First you had no farrier and couldn't find one anywhere...then pages later you finally found one you really like who will do whatever you want and you both think alike...new farrier wasn't going to do anything for a while with your horses while you rasped lightly as the hooves grew...farrier calls tonight and wants to come out tomorrow...now you're not going to use him and state that the reason behind that decision is that he "tried" but wasn't working out for your horses. Yet you've said he didn't do anything to the horses and only talked to you...what did he try? And why not use him when it's so hard to find a good farrier? :confused:
And it's hard to understand why you can't find a good farrier if you see one of the top vets around often and your father is known around the world as a vet...neither have anyone they can recommend to you as a farrier? :confused:
It seems the people on here hear half the story and the half heard is a rant that's overly dramatized and then doesn't hold up to any questions when folks ask them to help figure out a way to help with whatever the issue is.
Maybe if you try posting in a clear, concise manner with a timeline on what's going on...people can figure out how to offer constructive advice without questioning you since that seems to upset you?

[Manes&Tails]

Hoot...I think the issues you may find yourself having on this BB is that you don't seem to be clear at all in your posts/replies. The many contradictions...the capitalized ranting...the odd claims...they don't add up.

First you had no farrier and couldn't find one anywhere...then pages later you finally found one you really like who will do whatever you want and you both think alike...new farrier wasn't going to do anything for a while with your horses while you rasped lightly as the hooves grew...farrier calls tonight and wants to come out tomorrow...now you're not going to use him and state that the reason behind that decision is that he "tried" but wasn't working out for your horses. Yet you've said he didn't do anything to the horses and only talked to you...what did he try? And why not use him when it's so hard to find a good farrier? :confused:
And it's hard to understand why you can't find a good farrier if you see one of the top vets around often and your father is known around the world as a vet...neither have anyone they can recommend to you as a farrier? :confused:
It seems the people on here hear half the story and the half heard is a rant that's overly dramatized and then doesn't hold up to any questions when folks ask them to help figure out a way to help with whatever the issue is.
Maybe if you try posting in a clear, concise manner with a timeline on what's going on...people can figure out how to offer constructive advice without questioning you since that seems to upset you?

The previous farrier called tonight to come out tomorrow, not the new one.

[Appassionato]

Yes, but not a horse vet., he is 78 and still working, is known all over the world in vet med and human med.

He's 78 YO and still working in human and vet medicine? :eek::confused:

Does he have access to the internet?

[Manes&Tails]

[QUOTE]


seems to me the blue roan has deviated front legs from the knees down and his feet would wear oddly due to the build above it....



this grey seems born with the ever popular "too small a cannon and hoof for her/his body"...uber heavy on the forehand as well as some odd pasterns...there is heel on those feet and while the nails do seem set low the hoof itself may not be lending itself to higher clinches....

if you waited for this horse to grow our it's "too small genetically to begin with foot" you could risk some real real wear and tear issues....as it's weight bearing down on the hoof will do more than a farrier could "undo"....

but I ain't a farrier nor do I play one on TV...

Tamara in TN

Gosh, if my grey mare that has won many GC, RC, and 1st places at several local shows judged by top judges/trainers in the United states has such bad conformation, the barn ladies and I wonder how bad off the horses that placed behind her in her classes are having it?

[Appassionato]

The previous farrier called tonight to come out tomorrow, not the new one.

Did you READ MistyBlue's post before responding?

For exmaple, WHICH new farrier? The one *I* questioned or another one? You should probably start over with farrier 1, farrier 2, and so on. I'm not mocking here, my horse really was crippled by a farrier (the posts date back to when I joined COTH)...hence the validation of my posts vs. what you're saying. It doesn't add up.

[Appassionato]

[quote=Tamara in TN;2881085]

Gosh, if my grey mare that has won many GC, RC, and 1st places at several local shows judged by top judges/trainers in the United states has such bad conformation, the barn ladies and I wonder how bad off the horses that placed behind her in her classes are having it?

The grey horse as she stands has a decent chance at DSLD/ESPA. If we are wrong, please post shots telling us so. Or drop it. Blaming farriers won't help this mare, and we know it.

[MistyBlue]

The previous farrier called tonight to come out tomorrow, not the new one.

Still confused...the previous farrier "was nice and he tried, but it's not working out" now and before he was a person who doesn't listen to you and crippled your horses and was the cause of this thread rant? :confused:

Still also confused as to how you have a 'top race vet' and a world famous vet as a father and neither know of a single decent farrier for you to call/use? Your father works at a vet school and they don't use or recommend any farriers?

[Appassionato]

What is wrong with being 78 and still working? He has internet at his office at the vet school.

Which vet school is he still working working in human and vet medicine? I'd like to check into this, or else it's not true.

[Manes&Tails]

Did you READ MistyBlue's post before responding?

For exmaple, WHICH new farrier? The one *I* questioned or another one? You should probably start over with farrier 1, farrier 2, and so on. I'm not mocking here, my horse really was crippled by a farrier (the posts date back to when I joined COTH)...hence the validation of my posts vs. what you're saying. It doesn't add up.


I am not going to start from the very start of the story, sorry! The fact is my horses hooves are not correct from the last 3 farrier visits, I really started noticing it when it was time for him to come to the third visit. Instead of firing him I wanted to talk it out and work with him, then they were worse than ever. So when their hooves get enough growth on them then the new farrier will come. He may have to put shoes on the yearling for a while, and depending on the ground conditions, which will have play in how long to get them back corrected. It may be about 2 mths if I am lucky, just in time for the spring shows. The old farrier called tonight, I have not called the new one to come out yet, in the mean time I am rasping the hooves a little at a time to just try and get her balanced until enough growth for a good trim and shoeing.

[Manes&Tails]

Still confused...the previous farrier "was nice and he tried, but it's not working out" now and before he was a person who doesn't listen to you and crippled your horses and was the cause of this thread rant? :confused:

Still also confused as to how you have a 'top race vet' and a world famous vet as a father and neither know of a single decent farrier for you to call/use? Your father works at a vet school and they don't use or recommend any farriers?

The one at the vet school is not taking new clients, he is 250.00 if you use him at the sch.

[vanheimrhorses]

i got fed up with local farriers and shipped my horses to places like the International horse show and Upperville to be shod by the best and paid a fortune, but I had at one time over twenty horses so just the competition horses got to go, so I went to school and apprenticed and became one just for mine and then did the boarders when I opened a big horse center, I measure the hooves toe length, heel length and mid hoof just past second nail length and match the hoof on each side, I measure across the bottom of hoof for width, I measure the angles with professional gauge not the cheap brass thing, I write it all down on a chart each shoeing, I write anything I find such as beginning thrush or abcess or separation, I treat anything, I then select shoes and record type of shoe used and size, I apply the shoes hot even if cold shoes are used to seat them perfect and seal the hoof wall. I would keep a binder and pages and require this of my farrier for every one of my horses if I was paying to have my horses shod, it is a big expense we are laying out and there is nothing wrong with requesting professional work and records and measurements.

[harvestmoon]

H&T, is there something you want to gain from this thread?

[PiedPiper]

The one at the vet school is not taking new clients, he is 250.00 if you use him at the sch.

Um, that isn't an uncommon price for a good farrier. My three horses cost me 220, 260, and 180 respectively.

[Appassionato]

I am not going to start from the very start of the story, sorry! The fact is my horses hooves are not correct from the last 3 farrier visits, I really started noticing it when it was time for him to come to the third visit. Instead of firing him I wanted to talk it out and work with him, then they were worse than ever. So when their hooves get enough growth on them then the new farrier will come. He may have to put shoes on the yearling for a while, and depending on the ground conditions, which will have play in how long to get them back corrected. It may be about 2 mths if I am lucky, just in time for the spring shows. The old farrier called tonight, I have not called the new one to come out yet, in the mean time I am rasping the hooves a little at a time to just try and get her balanced until enough growth for a good trim and shoeing.

If you "recently started noticing it when it was time for him to come", how bad could his shoeing jobs have been?

"So when their hooves get enough growth on them then the new farrier will come. He may have to put shoes on the yearling for a while,"

Do what?

He may have to put shoes on the yearling for a while, and depending on the ground conditions, which will have play in how long to get them back corrected. It may be about 2 mths if I am lucky, just in time for the spring shows.

TWO months! For corrective? Again I ask how crippled your horses are...but considering the hocks/DSLD of the FOUR year old, who am I asking here? "Just in time for showing" I guess. :no:

The old farrier called tonight, I have not called the new one to come out yet, in the mean time I am rasping the hooves a little at a time to just try and get her balanced until enough growth for a good trim and shoeing.

The "<$250 farriers" might be doing you a disservice. When they depend on owners' balancing the horses hooves before they can start...that's a bad call. You're just going to have to trust me on this; regardless how much hoof you say there is to nail to.

[Manes&Tails]

If you "recently started noticing it when it was time for him to come", how bad could his shoeing jobs have been?



Do what?



TWO months! For corrective? Again I ask how crippled your horses are...but considering the hocks/DSLD of the FOUR year old, who am I asking here? "Just in time for showing" I guess. :no:



The "<$250 farriers" might be doing you a disservice. When they depend on owners' balancing the horses hooves before they can start...that's a bad call. You're just going to have to trust me on this; regardless how much hoof you say there is to nail to.

But shoes on her to support her heels and hoove and get her turned back out, #1 farrier has them both very turned in. My grey mare that is a beautiful move, now wings out on the left front, and she has never done that in the 6 years I have owned her.

[Fairview Horse Center]

Um, that isn't an uncommon price for a good farrier. My three horses cost me 220, 260, and 180 respectively.

WOW, I am glad I am not near you... oops, I am. :lol:

We have several very good farriers that come here. Most change $120. - $150 for 4 shoes.

[Appassionato]

#1 farrier has them both very turned in. My grey mare that is a beautiful move, now wings out on the left front, and she has never done that in the 6 years I have owned her.

Once again, the <$250 farriers have done you a disservice.

[goeslikestink]

I am confused.

You have friends that are farriers that see you struggling to get your horses done and see you struggling with horrible messed up feet caused by all the horrible farriers of the world and they are not willing to even help you out by either finding you someone qualified or do some work for you on the side (of their full time job)?

I would not count them as my friends, that is for sure.

And I do not think you need to yell at us. I did not see where you said before that you schedule your next appointment at the time of your current appointment. I actually read what you previously posted the same way everyone else took it. So please stop yelling at us.


seconded

but i have a question hoot and tick are you that very same person that moaning about bo not taking care of horses
and then in the next breath say on another post would you get a horse if it had hypp-- well matey
is it to be offered byself as that can be read both ways but as it was before this one people read that you would be getting-- not that it could be on offer by self
and now this thread

I think someones telling porkies as there more a lot more do you own those horses that are starving as you put and lack of care
and could it be that you have been report the lack of attention paid both in body and feet
so blaming the farriers as a get out card

hence the post and having goes to gain support


i wonder about you as what you post isnt always honest or complete something missing
and you can take how you like dead unsure about you




if you canrt afford your horses and you are having trouble then ring the a/c and be a responsibale owner and stop blaming everyone esle for the condition your horses are in
if they have thrush then its down to dirty stables and a dirty yard and as you have stated that barn owner which i belidve to be your self as you have gone from 1 horse to 8 and then back to 3
i seriously surgest you give them up now before you get reported again perhaps you have had a warning remember this much bb are open to all that read them and not just the poeple that reply
if you was hoping like i said as support for somewaht evidence as being good and a pat on the back for being a good owner
then for get it wont happen - no way no ever if your horses are in a mess then no other person to blame but yourself
and people will look further into than you think because you just told the world where you are
so give the horses to a/c unit -and stop compliaining


people would respect you more so if you was honest and didnt beat around the bush that you in trouble with neds so are you

[trubandloki]

I have the vet take xrays every few months to check on it.

That is from post #145

And this is from post #177



I have had 2 sets of xrays of my yearlings knee since she hurt it!

:confused:


And I do find it interesting.
Do you do anything in life that does not involve top level, the best, nationally known, etc?

You appear to have a father who is nationally known for veterinary and human medicine, and your amazing mare shows at only the highest level and always wins, and the list goes on and on.

For someone with all the connections you obviously have from all your big time contacts you should easily be able to get an in with any farrier there is, even if they are not taking new clients.

Why not trying to be upfront and honest with us, we might give you some information you can use.

[deltawave]

No, no, it was "local shows with internationally-known judges" or some such.

Dang, the local shows I take my young/green horses to are judged by locals. And I don't consider ribbons at them to be any sort of statement that my horses have star quality, believe me. I think once my "competition" in an under saddle class was a Clydesdale, an obese paint mare and a blind school horse. :p I think we got 2nd, LOL! :D

[7HL]

The term Troll also comes to mind with H&T.

Looking at her history of posts, it also seems to be a reoccuring theme with her, complaining about farriers. She dumps them , gets new, then isn't using, and then back to using.

I also found interesting the thread anybody want an HYPP horse.... free?

[TBROCKS]

Aren't we at the part of the story where the OP now starts to delete her posts?

Deltawave, this cracked me up!!:
"Dang, the local shows I take my young/green horses to are judged by locals. And I don't consider ribbons at them to be any sort of statement that my horses have star quality, believe me. I think once my "competition" in an under saddle class was a Clydesdale, an obese paint mare and a blind school horse. I think we got 2nd, LOL!"

[trubandloki]

No, no, it was "local shows with internationally-known judges" or some such.

Oops, silly me! You are so right. Those international judges who go and spend their time doing local shows...silly silly me.





Dang, the local shows I take my young/green horses to are judged by locals. And I don't consider ribbons at them to be any sort of statement that my horses have star quality, believe me. I think once my "competition" in an under saddle class was a Clydesdale, an obese paint mare and a blind school horse. :p I think we got 2nd, LOL! :D

Giggle!

[goeslikestink]

Aren't we at the part of the story where the OP now starts to delete her posts?

Deltawave, this cracked me up!!:
"Dang, the local shows I take my young/green horses to are judged by locals. And I don't consider ribbons at them to be any sort of statement that my horses have star quality, believe me. I think once my "competition" in an under saddle class was a Clydesdale, an obese paint mare and a blind school horse. I think we got 2nd, LOL!"


tbrocks - haha we will see what truth brings haha

see one thing op -- i have resuced horses from all walks of life might fool some but dont fool me

[Manes&Tails]

That is from post #145

And this is from post #177



:confused:


And I do find it interesting.
Do you do anything in life that does not involve top level, the best, nationally known, etc?

You appear to have a father who is nationally known for veterinary and human medicine, and your amazing mare shows at only the highest level and always wins, and the list goes on and on.

For someone with all the connections you obviously have from all your big time contacts you should easily be able to get an in with any farrier there is, even if they are not taking new clients.

Why not trying to be upfront and honest with us, we might give you some information you can use.


Yes, even for some of our local shows we have nationaly known judges, we have many in our area, because they work for/with the university or are retired equine sp.. They gladly come and judge our small shows for us. I have shown breed shows and placed, but will stick to local open shows much more fun, I have my horses for campanions not a business, so will stick to small, or just have fun grooming, feeding and trail riding.

[Manes&Tails]

tbrocks - haha we will see what truth brings haha

see one thing op -- i have resuced horses from all walks of life might fool some but dont fool me

I don't understand you post, can't follow to well with all the miss prints, I have miss prints, but can't follow yours?

Are you saying my horses need to sent to a resuce?

Are you saying the ponies are mine?

Are you saying the + mare is mine?

I don't understand you?

[Manes&Tails]

Oops, silly me! You are so right. Those international judges who go and spend their time doing local shows...silly silly me.





Giggle!

Some of our local shows are tuff, many curcit winners come with highly trianed horses and riders.

Some of our local shows are back yard, but they are fun!

I have had many people in the QH show busisness tell me I need to stop the small shows and go to bred shows with my mare.


I don't care about all that big stuff, just love taking care of them.

[Manes&Tails]

Oops, silly me! You are so right. Those international judges who go and spend their time doing local shows...silly silly me.





Giggle!


Your not silly you are mean and dumb!! Yes, we do have these types of judges at our small shows, where I live there are many of them and they like to support their community, I take it back, you are also silly to make statements like this when you don't even know what you are talking about!

[TBROCKS]

I don't understand you post, can't follow to well with all the miss prints, I have miss prints, but can't follow yours?
Are you saying my horses need to sent to a resuce?

Are you saying the ponies are mine?

Are you saying the + mare is mine?

I don't understand you?

So, is your glass house tinted or not?

[RockinHorse]

So, is your glass house tinted or not?

:lol::lol::lol:

[Manes&Tails]

So, is your glass house tinted or not?

I never said my horses were star quality, just wondering how bad off the horses that place behind her have it at any level since she needs to go to a resuce!

I do know one person that lives in a glass house, I don't.

[Moderator 2]

This thread has appeared to have derailed and we have decided to close it.

Please, do NOT comment on each other - just on the subject at hand.

Thanks.