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View Full Version : Dressage Today magazine- "Clinic w/ Lisa" segment not in it anymore?



Milocalwinnings
Dec. 11, 2007, 05:50 PM
Does anyone know what happened to the "Clinic with Lisa" segment in the Dressage Today magazine? I recieved my December issue last week and noticed it wasn't in there... just wondering if it was taken out for good or what?

CTM
Dec. 11, 2007, 06:04 PM
It mentions somewhere (note from editor at the beginning?) that Lisa is unable to do the column anymore due to her other commitments so I believe it's gone for good.

egontoast
Dec. 11, 2007, 06:05 PM
A recent editor's page mentioned that she was not going to be doing it any more because of other commitments and that Arthur Kottas would be taking it over , starting in February..

Milocalwinnings
Dec. 11, 2007, 06:30 PM
Ah ok... didn't read that :o Guess I should pay more attention next time!

I'm interested to see how the new guy's article is!

nightmoves
Dec. 11, 2007, 09:14 PM
Dang! That was my favorite

DaisyMae
Dec. 11, 2007, 09:44 PM
Kottas is quite good. I really think you'll like him and learn a lot!

c_expresso
Dec. 12, 2007, 06:51 AM
Dang! That was my favorite

Me too :cry:

retrofit
Dec. 12, 2007, 07:03 AM
Dang! That was my favorite

I didn't like her critiques. Too much verbage spent on turnout and not enough on riding. I'll be interested to see AK's critiques.

DancingSeahorse
Dec. 12, 2007, 07:38 AM
Maybe the Winnie the Pooh spoof got to her?

Miss-O
Dec. 12, 2007, 07:49 AM
I agree with Retrofit it seems like all she ever talked about was turnout. And it bothered me how she would get after someone for not using a flash every single time. Not EVERY horse needs one.

Don't get me wrong but turnout is important but people would get more out of the article if she maybe had one small paragraph devoted to turnout and the others devoted to actually helping the rider with their riding.

SillyHorse
Dec. 12, 2007, 08:12 AM
Agree with retrofit and Miss-O. I won't miss her column. I look forward to seeing Arthur Kottas's approach to the column.

GreekDressageQueen
Dec. 12, 2007, 08:19 AM
I didn't like the segment either. If I read one more time that people should ALWAYS wear white gloves, pull up the caveson, wear a flash, and use dressage-appropriate equipment every time - I was going to hurl. Some of the people sending in pictures were either new to dressage and/or from other disciplines. I don't think she evaluated the riders based on a broad spectrum of knowledge - taking into account their differences - and rather just applied her little DQ world to everyone. Although to give her credit - I DO think it is very difficult to judge a person and a horse based on a snapshot. I think it is lazy journalism and the DT people are trying to play on the success of the Morris' column in PH rather than come up with new, creative columns. Maybe the editor should talk to the people at Sport Horse Magazine that continue to produce a funny, interesting, and informative rag.

egontoast
Dec. 12, 2007, 08:26 AM
Yes definitely time for a change.

rileyt
Dec. 12, 2007, 08:43 AM
I don't think she evaluated the riders based on a broad spectrum of knowledge - taking into account their differences - and rather just applied her little DQ world to everyone.

Although I agree her turnout tips had grown tiresome, Lisa was actually an event rider first (and a pretty good one at that) before turning to dressage full time. But, the magazine is called "Dressage Today" for a reason.

All that said, I look forward to Kottas' version.

GansMyMan
Dec. 12, 2007, 10:13 AM
Actually, I thought it was an interesting critique of lower levels in general. True, the white gloves and flash comments got old. But if you consider the comments from a broader view; many riders were riding with the wrong equipment, fitted wrongly to the horse and rider and placed wrongly on the horse. There were pervasive issues with hip and leg position, body angle and use of the hand. I think the comments were repetitive, because the problems were repetitive. But I just ate a bunch of nuts out of my horse-slime encrusted hand while wondering about the stench. So, what do I know?

Valentina_32926
Dec. 12, 2007, 10:18 AM
But I just ate a bunch of nuts out of my horse-slime encrusted hand while wondering about the stench. So, what do I know? :eek:

Ilex
Dec. 12, 2007, 10:43 AM
1. "I" read the article.

2. "I" learn from the article.

3. "I" take what "I" learn from the article AND apply it to my riding & T/O.

4. "I" have a photo taken to send in for critique.

Why in the name of all that is holy would "I" send in a photo that has the same T/O problems of the other critiques?

If your going to be miffed w/anyone it should be the folks that sent in the photos.

suzy
Dec. 12, 2007, 10:47 AM
Bravo Ilex. ;)

twnkltoz
Dec. 12, 2007, 10:55 AM
I wouldn't be surprised if you see a similar pattern with Kottas. There is only so much you can critique from a snapshot, and since the only people who send in pictures are training and first level (with an occasional 2nd, as I recall), they're all going to have similar problems. Beyond that, there's only so much you can say when you can't see what's really happening, so maybe she had to resort to turnout.

Her point in the flash was not whether the horse needed it to keep his mouth closed. She uses it to keep the bit in the correct position.

Phyxius
Dec. 12, 2007, 05:03 PM
I didn't like her critiques. Too much verbage spent on turnout and not enough on riding. I'll be interested to see AK's critiques.

Agreed

Miss-O
Dec. 12, 2007, 05:41 PM
Her point in the flash was not whether the horse needed it to keep his mouth closed. She uses it to keep the bit in the correct position.


I get that. But again this is something that NOT everyone needs to use it for.

And yes I agree the people who do send in the pic's are pretty dumb. If you know what she is going to say over and over again. You would think they would listen BEFORE sending the photo in so they can hopefully get some new info from her. I was contemplating sending a pic in but that would mean that I would have to go out and buy a flash noseband for my horse that normally goes entirely without a noseband at all ***gasp*** horrors**** :D

GreekDressageQueen
Dec. 12, 2007, 07:44 PM
But if you consider the comments from a broader view; many riders were riding with the wrong equipment, fitted wrongly to the horse and rider and placed wrongly on the horse.

I would generally agree with that statement except LW thought any rider in H/J gear was riding in inappropriate equipment. Frankly, if you are riding in the lower levels it doesn't really matter what "type" of english saddle you use - as long as it is comfortable for you and the horse. I guess that is what I am referring to, and as an ex-eventer she should know that.

I was just happy to see people from other disciplines try dressage and felt bad when they were scolded for not dressing appropriately according to dressage etiquette.

TB eventergirl101
Dec. 12, 2007, 08:36 PM
Darn that was my favorite column or article. The new one sounds good though.:sadsmile:

egontoast
Dec. 12, 2007, 08:45 PM
It's possible that a lot of the photos had already been sent in months before the general slant became apparent. It's also possible that people sent in their best photos which were from past shows even if the noseband was a little lower than LW likes or the gloves were the wrong colour or the horse was not perfectly conformed for dressage.

angel
Dec. 12, 2007, 08:56 PM
There are many things that can be determined in a still picture, if the person doing the critique is really tuned in to the picture and can feel the ride. Yes, if you do much riding and training, you should be able to feel the picture in most instances. Lisa was not really feeling most of those rides, though at the very end, it was getting better.

MaresNest
Dec. 12, 2007, 09:24 PM
A recent editor's page mentioned that she was not going to be doing it any more because of other commitments and that Arthur Kottas would be taking it over , starting in February..

I thought Lisa was good (though I think her "lower the hands" comments could be frequently interpreted as advising that hands be BELOW the elbow-wrist-bit line, which is incorrect), but I am PSYCHED that Kottas is taking over. I was going to tighten my belt and not renew my subscription, but maybe Ill have to now.

Also, why cant I type an apostrophe without Firefox going to the search function? Totally weird.

Milocalwinnings
Dec. 12, 2007, 10:07 PM
I don't know much about the new guy taking over.... but if he's good then I'm sure I'll enjoy and take a lot from his article. With Lisa's segment I'd read it and take out what I could use.... everything else I would just ignore. I would look at the photos and try to pick out the things I thought were going to be mentioned and then go back and read the critiques to see how much I really picked up on... most of the time it was the obvious stuff I didn't think of.

So really, I don't care who is writing the article.... I just care that someone IS doing it because I know that it helps me with some things that I'm trying to work on, such as seeing a problem that I wouldn't normally see.

petitefilly
Dec. 12, 2007, 10:11 PM
LOL Maybe Lisa was tired of the ribbing she took here on this forum! :) Kind of wonder from time to time who reads what and where, and if it effects them. Oh, well, public opinion is a strong force, it takes guts to keep jugging along when you really do not need to take the negative to make your life worth living. My guess is the public got to Lisa more than we think. :(

I've always thought that column would be good with maybe three different people rotating the column so it would not get stale. No one wants to be tied to a column that is going to be less than fun after a year or more. We all need to keep movin' on up! :)

MaresNest
Dec. 12, 2007, 10:31 PM
I don't know much about the new guy taking over....

Taken from http://www.kottas-academy.com/html/akh.html :


Arthur Kottas-Heldenberg was born in 1945 and has been a member of the Spanish Riding School of Vienna since 1960. In 1980, he was made First Chief Rider and is the youngest person to have held this post in the 400 years of the School’s history. He is a trainer and instructor of the highest international repute who has successfully trained riders and horses up to Olympic medal standard.


His classical schooling methods do not rely on the use of force by the rider and, as a result, he is in demand worldwide as a teacher of classical riding, and it is in this direction that his future lies.

"I feel that I would like to devote more time to helping top riders improve their work and also to those who do not compete but who love classical equitation for its own sake," he said.

petitefilly
Dec. 12, 2007, 10:40 PM
I don't know much about the new guy taking over.... but if he's good then I'm sure I'll enjoy and take a lot from his article..


Oh-my! I missed this! Oh, grasshopper you have much to learn!

:):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):) :):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):) :):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):) :):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):) :):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):) :):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):) :):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):) :):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):) :):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):) :):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):)

Miss Dior
Dec. 12, 2007, 10:51 PM
Good. Maybe now I can get him to refund my $$$$ from that worthless academy I paid for. What an utter waste!!!

Hazelnut
Dec. 13, 2007, 06:23 AM
I liked the column and Lisa Wilcox's perspective because I looked at the photos before reading her commentary and tried to come up with what she would focus on in her critique.

Because of the way she critiqued I would think turnout, equipment, position, and horses way of going as a way to organize my thoughts and then see how close I was to Ms Wilcox's critique.. It did make me more thoughtful about what I am looking at when I view a photo, so I'd say this lower level rider learned a few things. The repetition helped me develop an evaluation frame work in my own mind.

I will miss Lisa Wilcox's view,but am looking forward to the column through new eyes.

retrofit
Dec. 13, 2007, 07:50 AM
Because of the way she critiqued I would think turnout, equipment, position, and horses way of going ...

To me, those priorities are in the wrong order. In fact, I would list them 100% backwards.

iownapaint
Dec. 13, 2007, 09:30 AM
To me, those priorities are in the wrong order. In fact, I would list them 100% backwards.

YES!!! When the first thing you say is about turnout and THEN mention the fact that the rider is in a completely horrid position, there is PROBLEM! I was SO sick of reading Lisa's comments (and recently had stopped reading)because they were always the same and IMHO not prioritized correctly. Good riddance!

I can't wait for Kottas to start!

Zevida
Dec. 13, 2007, 11:34 AM
Woohoo! I noticed it was gone this month. I'm looking forward to getting someone new in that column.

Hazelnut
Dec. 13, 2007, 07:34 PM
To me, those priorities are in the wrong order. In fact, I would list them 100% backwards.

Good point about the order, but the items were not listed in order of importance, just listed as things I learned to consider. I would never consider turnout as a priority over any of the other three.

I am looking forward to seeing the slant of the new columnist.

Where'sMyWhite
Dec. 13, 2007, 08:40 PM
I think the point was you mentioned turnout first when might indicate you think that is most important (you do mention order didn't indicate importance but I think order may have an implied order of importance).

I won't miss the turnout comments... I learned to not wear white gloves until your hands were impeccable. I felt bad for some of the cross-over riders where I would have liked a bit more positive feedback rather than slamming them for riding a horse not totally suited to dressage in a not-dressage saddle. Right, it makes dressage harder but get them interesting and encouraged first (and no, I'm not saying to make false statements about their riding abilities but not everyone wants to run out and buy the fancy horse and dressage saddle until they're sure it's a fit).

I also found I got annoyed with her comment that tailoring her jacket was worth the expense... I'm thinking... tailor the jacket or ride in a show... hummm, let me think about this; yes, I'll ride in a show (the tailored jacket isn't useful if you've spent your limited funds on the jacket and no place to wear it).

I also am looking forward to Kottas' spin on this column.

Hazelnut
Dec. 13, 2007, 09:04 PM
I think the point was you mentioned turnout first when might indicate you think that is most important (you do mention order didn't indicate importance but I think order may have an implied order of importance).

Points regarding the order taken. :yes:

However, the point of my original post was actually that the column had value to me. It helped me develop a framework for critique which has been useful to me. The column might not have had that value for those with a more advanced eye.

Anyway...I am looking forward to the new column for this very reason, a new perspective.

EqTrainer
Dec. 13, 2007, 10:44 PM
Actually, I thought it was an interesting critique of lower levels in general. True, the white gloves and flash comments got old. But if you consider the comments from a broader view; many riders were riding with the wrong equipment, fitted wrongly to the horse and rider and placed wrongly on the horse. There were pervasive issues with hip and leg position, body angle and use of the hand. I think the comments were repetitive, because the problems were repetitive. But I just ate a bunch of nuts out of my horse-slime encrusted hand while wondering about the stench. So, what do I know?

Those issues are indeed the same issues seen over, over and over again, everywhere you go. I'll bet she was bored to tears, considering she spent years working on her seat and position.

Dressage Art
Dec. 13, 2007, 11:02 PM
I always get my DT late in the month... I liked Lisa's clinic, but I was able to predict after several months that she would comment on shiny boots and white gloves first. With time I just skipped the first paragraph. The rest was quite good and I enjoyed reading it. Thank you Lisa.

I'm sure that Lisa is busy and might be even tired of writing the same thing over and over. May be she will be back afterwards. I’m glad that DT is doing this column. I’ll enjoy it with Kottas as well: the man is the legend of the classicsl dressage seat - this column is perfect for him.

Sabine
Dec. 14, 2007, 12:54 AM
I really liked Lisa Wilcox a lot. She reminded me of Germany- she was in many ways as you would say- 'holier than the Pope'. She took the whole dressage bit very serious and did try to instill the 'proper attitude' from the start as we often insist on in Germany. There is really very little of that touchy-feely BS that many people here need in order to exist. Over there- it's straight forward, black and white- if you engage in this- this is how you have to do it. Period.

Now- Kottas comes from a even more rigid background- because darlings...kid you not- the SRS is VERY process oriented and detail oriented and committed to excellence. Question is: how much 'american compromise' has Kottas made to date and how will he sell his column...???

that's really all- good on you Lisa to quit that job- didn't get you much support from what I can tell-...if she was George Morris- noone would complain..I bet!

GreekDressageQueen
Dec. 14, 2007, 08:40 AM
...if she was George Morris- none would complain..I bet!

Oh - quite the contrary! A lot of people hate GM. His constant attack on people's weight (and not in a good way) have contributed to the increase of anorexia on the H/J circuit 10-15 years ago, and that attitude is still pervasive today. And I'm not talking about obviously very overweight people who - yes - may not give off as nice a picture in the Eq or Hunter rounds, but people who are probably between a size 10-12 and GM tells them to "walk away from the dinner table early" and other crude comments like that. Several people I know attended clinics with GM and came back in tears. GM may be the "father Queen" of the H/J world, but he too focuses on turnout, a little bit of dirt on the boot heel, and/or horse not shiny enough, etc. in his column. These are all very important things for a recognized event, but some of these pictures are from schooling shows or at-home sessions where, frankly, why the heck should I braid my horse's mane for that?

I agree with you Sabine that the European (and German) methods do not coddle the rider/horse and I too prefer that, but some trainers forget to analyze their students first when teaching/training/giving advice and make appropriate comments based on that. If I attended a clinic with either LW or GM I would expect to get my ass kicked, but if a "weekend" rider on her hunter-mount-turned-dressage decided to ride with LW - what is the point of telling her the horse sucks, she needs a new 3k saddle, she will never make it, etc... UNLESS of course that person has unrealistic expectations? And yes, some people are like that.

Well, I'm really not trying to rant here :) I guess my point is I too dislike GM and think others do to so, it's not just LW. I think LW is a fine rider/trainer and I would probably want to clinic with her one day, but then her comments would apply to me and I would take them seriously, but to some of the other people? Not so sure...

angel
Dec. 14, 2007, 12:43 PM
There is never a reason to enter at "A" looking like a country hick. Equipment should be in good order, boots polished, horse clipped and braided. However, I see nothing wrong with a rider who uses black gloves instead of white ones, or rides the lower levels in what might be called "hunt" attire. But, when you are picking apart a younger person whose parents are not made of money, and fault the fit of the jacket...well, it seems that there are more important things to discus really. Perhaps, my biggest concern was when someone was trying to ride dressage in an all purpose saddle. That's fine if it is a test in which there is no sitting trot. If there is a sitting trot, there should always be a dressage saddle as the balance point is different. That different balance point is needed for everything else farther up the levels.

SillyHorse
Dec. 14, 2007, 12:49 PM
if she was George Morris- no one would complain..I bet!
George Morris consistently mentions turnout LAST in his monthly jumping clinics. His main concerns are rider position and the horse's style. He states his preferences when it comes to turnout, but he's always fine with casual dress as long as it's neat and workmanlike.

Dressage Art
Dec. 14, 2007, 02:18 PM
to instill the 'proper attitude' from the start as we often insist on in Germany. There is really very little of that touchy-feely BS that many people here need in order to exist. Over there- it's straight forward, black and white- if you engage in this- this is how you have to do it. Period.
I had several German instructors, currently I'm taking regular clinics with Olympic level German clinician as well. Yes, they can be tough and very black and white. But I think that the difference is that they tell you how it is and then tell you how to fix it. Some trainers in US "attack" you with a smile and on top of that do not tell you how to fix it; they just "put the blame on" and feel good that they were able to identify the problem! I think the latter is much worse.

Americans are definitely masters of sugar coated nastiness.

Eclectic Horseman
Dec. 14, 2007, 03:54 PM
Most people want "positive" comments. They do not want to send a photo in to a magazine and be publically humiliated.

I think that Lisa wisely concentrated on the things that the rider could easily change and that are non-offensive. --like T.O. It is the same sort of criticism that judges make when they criticize the shape of the figure.

Things like: the horse looks like a crappy mover that has inappropriate conformation for dressage. Or: you really ought to lose some weight and tone up because you are squashing your horse's back. Or you should go back to longe lessons to develop a seat because it really looks like you are balancing off the horse's mouth here.....

I mean, jeez, who would send in photos? :lol::lol:

Milocalwinnings
Dec. 16, 2007, 12:46 AM
I agree with those who say the turnout critiques got to be annoying. While some of them were obviously necessary, some of the nit picky things, such as white gloves, a specific coat etc weren't.... I did get a lot from her column and enjoyed reading it each month though... I usually just skimmed the critique until I got to the actual rider critique. Either way, a new person won't hurt anything.... I think it might be a nice change since now we'll have a different view on what people can work on and they might point out something completely different than what Lisa would have.

atr
Dec. 16, 2007, 01:06 AM
I think you'll find that she critiqued the non-show pictures appropriately if you take the time to look back over the columns.

You know, if she so doesn't know what she's talking about, how come she's the one doing the critiques and you are the ones whining about them? :)

Milocalwinnings
Dec. 16, 2007, 02:17 AM
I think you'll find that she critiqued the non-show pictures appropriately if you take the time to look back over the columns.

You know, if she so doesn't know what she's talking about, how come she's the one doing the critiques and you are the ones whining about them? :)


I'm not whining about them. If you look at my other posts in this thread, I really enjoyed reading and trying to pick out what she would critique on, and then reading to see how many I guessed correctly. I just said that I agreed with everyone else who said she seemed focus on turnout almost as much as she did the riding.

Sabine
Dec. 16, 2007, 03:21 AM
I had several German instructors, currently I'm taking regular clinics with Olympic level German clinician as well. Yes, they can be tough and very black and white. But I think that the difference is that they tell you how it is and then tell you how to fix it. Some trainers in US "attack" you with a smile and on top of that do not tell you how to fix it; they just "put the blame on" and feel good that they were able to identify the problem! I think the latter is much worse.

Americans are definitely masters of sugar coated nastiness.

That's quite a comment DA- I faintly remember that you are from russian background( I might be totally wrong here...??) but anyhow I agree with your assessment.... and I do believe that real dressage is a very regimented sport- like ice skating in many ways- and it requires a lot of discipline and acceptance of certain rules and requirements- the rest is just really hard work to get there and get IT!!! Recently there are more and more indicators that working with the really well bred horses will require even more discipline (not to break them) and even more knowledge on how to do the right thing at the right time...it is undoubtedly a tough sport and DT is a serious dressage magazine that does try to instill serious dressage attitudes...so I can not fault them for finding someone as good as LW to basicallly teach the basics...I would not expect a lot different from Mr. Kottas - and he is truly a SRS / classical rider with a lot of great background...
get tough ladies...this is a serious sport...:)!

MsM
Dec. 16, 2007, 07:10 AM
I think the way LW's column was written made it seem as if her priorities were skewed -that turnout was most important! I doubt that it was intended that way, but that is how it came across to many.
I enjoy reading those kind of columns for the little training/riding tips they can provide. When the expert can say that the horse is, for example, too much on the forehand for the level and the rider should do more transitions, or figures or whatever, I enjoy the analysis.
To me, I would not want extensive feedback on my turnout (there are many good sources for this and it seems a waste to use an experts time and expretise on these matters) and very limited feedback on my horse (I think it is fine to say "this horse's conformation makes collected work much more difficult for him" but it is not okay to simply say the horse is "not suitable" unless the rider indicated some very high-level aspirations.)
I dont think it is that Amercians could not take LW telling it like it is. I think it was a difficulty with different expectations and perhaps with writing/editing of the column.

slc2
Dec. 16, 2007, 07:40 AM
I think the pointers Lisa gave on turnout were good. I think she was way too busy to do the column in the first place, and obviously didn't need the money, though whatever she was paid was probably still not enough to keep doing it instead of doing what is already a couple of full time jobs.

She did it as a FAVOR to people - to give back to the community.

For one thing, many people probably send in pictures with cautions like they give here when they post videos and pics - 'I know I have a lot of things I do wrong, I am working with a trainer and she has told me everything that's wrong and I already know what I have to work on, so don't mention any of those things, and my horse is a refuge from a concentration camp in Guatemala with lots of Inner Foal issues that is out of shape and has only been trained by a Mongolian cattle herder, and we've been having dressage lessons for 2 weeks, so what do you think, are we where we should be?'

About all you can say is about turnout in that case, ROFLMAO. WHAT'S LEFT? NOTHING ELSE!

Yeah, I'm sure there are some people around who respect Lisa and her knowledge enough to send in photos and honestly ask for help, but at the same time, how much can you really get out of one picture? Some people sent sets, but it's still a very limited way to critique someone's riding and training.

I feel that Lisa did a fabulous job with what she had. Her writing was concise, so if she talked about turnout, she didn't REALLY leave anything out about training, and she gave fabulous critiques of position and basic way of going of the horse that people needed to work on. She's an excellent writer and communicator, and she gave VERY GOOD ADVICE to people, while still being extremely positive and encouraging, she was very honest and very clear.

The OTHER thing....the thing I really loved about her critiques, was that unlike many of the ones we see here, what she was critiquing was very relevant at the level the horse and rider (obviously) were at, and not nit picking on irrelevant stuff, but fundamental and focused.

A critiquer is between a rock and a hard place. No matter what they say, someone isn't going to like it. IF they're nice, someone's going to say they're not doing anyone a favor, if they're honest, someone will say they're mean. If they don't talk about turnout, someone will whine, if they DO, someone will whine. If they say two sentences about position and one about training, someone will say it should have been the other way around.

And eventually, they are going to get sick of doing it, because it's a thankless job. It's even harder than giving riding lessons, and people have ENOUGH trouble accepting criticism in riding lessons as it is, we could discuss that for quite some time. So much so that my friend after a very difficult go in a show practically fell down LHAO when she read the judge's comment, 'Lovely tail', the poor judge even felt like she had to say something cheery to balance all that honesty, ROFLMAO!!!! Can't have too much honesty all in one place, now can we!

It's a little bit like being Erin - you do a ton of work, and everyone complains. That's the job description in a nutshell. You guys are like Gene Hackman in 'Young Frankenstein' who are trailing after yelling, 'but I made Espresso!' and are always shocked when someone doesn't want to play the game any more.

I think the best thing is to just say, 'THANK YOU LISA FOR ALL THE EFFORT AND TIME YOU PUT INTO THESE CRITIQUES'.

egontoast
Dec. 16, 2007, 08:04 AM
'THANK YOU LISA FOR ALL THE EFFORT AND TIME YOU PUT INTO THESE CRITIQUES'.

Um. I doubt she reads any of this ..er.. stuff, slc. Why not send her an email ? Maybe she'll give you a personal critique if you send a pic!;)

everyequine
Dec. 16, 2007, 08:44 AM
I haven't gotten that magazine in so long, but what I won't miss is the picture of the flowers that was bigger than the critique pictures. That space could have been used to do another critique!
I did like the column, I had no probem with the turn out comments, and liked the way she encoraged young riders, (and some old ones too!) and always had something positive to say. I never heard her make a catty GM type fat comment, or anything that could be rude.

Velvet
Dec. 16, 2007, 10:01 AM
I can't comment on the Lisa issue, but I have to wonder why anyone would even bother spending on money on the magazine. I remember it from WAY back in the day when it was first published. My problem with most publications in the horse world is that they constantly repeat themselves. Why pay for that? Seriously, why pay for that?

That's my question. I just never saw much in magazines. I'd rather spend the money on a book that talks about dressage (and goes into much more detail) or a lesson.

What do you people find in these magazines that gives you more than a book or a lesson (or auditing a clinic--since that matches the price of a magazine subscription more closely than riding in a clinic)?

slc2
Dec. 16, 2007, 11:11 AM
Maybe you can get a rule passed that will require all to buy fewer magazines. I'm sure the publishers will be grateful.

Magazines 'repeat themselves' because new people come into the sport and ask the same questions over and over, as well as because most people into dressage ride at the same levels and have the same interests - basics, how to show better at that basic level, and what's going on with the top riders, and what's the latest in tack and new products.

It could be argued that ALL the money spent on hobbies like riding is rather foolishly spent. :)

egontoast
Dec. 16, 2007, 12:03 PM
hey Velvet, I get it for free so it's worth it to me! :)

Also, I don't like taking my nice books in the bathtub.

splish splash

FancyFree
Dec. 16, 2007, 12:15 PM
I can't comment on the Lisa issue, but I have to wonder why anyone would even bother spending on money on the magazine. I remember it from WAY back in the day when it was first published. My problem with most publications in the horse world is that they constantly repeat themselves. Why pay for that? Seriously, why pay for that?

That's my question. I just never saw much in magazines. I'd rather spend the money on a book that talks about dressage (and goes into much more detail) or a lesson.

What do you people find in these magazines that gives you more than a book or a lesson (or auditing a clinic--since that matches the price of a magazine subscription more closely than riding in a clinic)?

I agree. But I like to look at the ads. :lol:

AnsleyGrace
Dec. 16, 2007, 12:18 PM
I audited a Lisa Wilcox clinic at Applewood Farm in Alpharetta GA yesterday and was impressed by her professionalism and her wonderful attitude toward EVERYONE, including several training level riders as well as those riding at the FEI levels.

I enjoyed being exposed to a higher level of instruction ( I am only a TL rider who events), though it was interesting to realize that good riding doesn't know a level or number as quite a bit of the things she choose to work on and the problems she was trying to correct are the same struggles that I as well as many other lower level riders struggle with.

I have no strong opinion on the Clinic with Lisa argument, but I enjoyed watching her teach.

atr
Dec. 16, 2007, 01:37 PM
To answer your question honestly, Velvet, I find it useful because I am rather new to the sport of dressage.

(I've ridden and kept horses for many, many years, so I've got to say that the content of mags like PH or Horse and Rider, or even a lot of Equus, doesn't exactly come as news to me, so they aren't where I spend my money.)

The "how-to" articles are often useful to me because they can help me focus on a particular issue I am having, and offer me some tools to solve it--maybe stating in different language to that which my trainer uses, or maybe reinforcing in exactly the same language as my trainer. I read a lot of books, but it's easy to become lost in the overall subject rather than breaking out a single topic in a book.

As a lowly first/second level rider, I can usually glean some nugget of information from each issue that makes reading it worthwhile for me. Maybe when I reach your level, I'll feel the same way you do. However, my trainer, who is a GP rider, also reads it because she finds imagery in there that is useful to her in training us drones. (She'll also tell us when she disagrees with what someone says, and why.)

I find the "personality" interviews and the international news worthwhile just because I'm interested in people and their doings. Shallow me.

The veterinary columns, not usually anything I haven't already heard about, but a different perspective can be helpful. And the fluff, like the recent series on horse personalities, meh. But no-one's forcing me to read it.

So that's why I bother. Oh and at $36 for 24 issues, it isn't going to break the bank.

Hazelnut
Dec. 16, 2007, 02:32 PM
I agree with atr. I enjoy receiving Dressage Today and read some articles several times. My trainer also reads it and when we are working on something will ask did you read what XYZ had to say about ABC? I also save certain excercises that are pertinent to aiding me in my riding.

I liken it to getting my GMO newsletter.

I gleaned great insight from a recent article that was reinforced through a training exercise by the person I regularly clinic with.

I like reading anything I can get, books, magazines, newsletters, the internet...my trainer encourages reading and study...

Velvet
Dec. 16, 2007, 09:23 PM
I wasn't trying to imply that they aren't of any value, more that people who subscribe to them for any length of time see the same thing over and over again.

I see your points, on the tub water, and the newbies enjoying it. ;)

atr
Dec. 17, 2007, 12:44 AM
But would you not appreciate seeing those same things from a different perspective?

After all, do we not keep coming up against the same issues over and over again through our riding lives? Isn't it interesting to see how someone else handles them?

Dressage Art
Dec. 17, 2007, 11:14 AM
That's quite a comment DA- I faintly remember that you are from russian background( I might be totally wrong here...??) but anyhow I agree with your assessment....
Sabine, my mother was born in Mongolia, my father was born in Bulgaria, I was born in Estonia, but I spoke Russian language as my first language. My family is a political refugee from USSR - so yes, you can say that I do have a Russian background :D

Hazelnut
Dec. 17, 2007, 08:26 PM
But would you not appreciate seeing those same things from a different perspective?

After all, do we not keep coming up against the same issues over and over again through our riding lives? Isn't it interesting to see how someone else handles them?

Exactly, well said.

I recently watched and rode in a clinic with training level to grand prix riders where it really hit home; no matter what the level, the corrections to the problems were basics, basics, and more basics. So any perspective that helps shed light on even the most basic dressage principles is a good thing.

Dressage Today provides insight for more experienced riders. We discuss articles at the barn and often my trainer brings up an article...We are always trying excercises from the magazine, etc. esspecially in the winter to change things up.

However, I never read in the shower.;)

Lambie Boat
Dec. 17, 2007, 08:45 PM
what DID happen with that Kottas academy?

I know women who have ridden in Kottas clinics and he can be wicked mean. Let's see how 'polite' he is in print.

Personally, I think the magazines repeat stuff all the time because almost all the magazines have the same publisher. In fact, a few years ago, the exact same articles were printed in 3 different horse mags. Different cover and photos. I loved "Dressage & CT", but Dressage Today is boring to me. Kind of a star mag. big deal.