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WhiteCamry
Nov. 29, 2007, 10:06 AM
The Breeders' Cup (http://news.bloodhorse.com/viewstory.asp?id=42217)folks are talking about adding, among others races, a turf sprint for next year at Santa Anita. Also, a stayers race on the artificial dirt has been mentioned.

What else should they consider?

Glimmerglass
Nov. 29, 2007, 10:51 AM
On a related note the The American Graded Stakes Committee is not upgrading the three new $1M BC races added and run this year on the day prior to the big day to being graded at all - let alone Grade 1 like the rest of the BC races.

It seems rather odd although the circumstances seem blurred. I know (the BC) requested Grade 1 status back in 2006 for the 2007 races but pulled it back although its unclear if they did the same again for the 2008 race too:

DRF 11-28-07 (http://www.drf.com/news/article/90670.html)


According to the committee’s secretary, Andrew Schweigardt, the committee did not consider assigning Grade 1 status to the three new $1 million races that Breeders’ Cup ran this year at Monmouth Park. Breeders’ Cup officials had initially asked the committee to consider grades for the races but rescinded the request. The committee typically will not assign grades to any race that has not been run for three consecutive years.

Officials for Breeders’ Cup could not be reached late on Thursday.

As to the expansion - like it or not - I suspect the BC will add some racing in Asia into the schedule in the new few years. There is too much money and fan enthusiasm to ignore by making this just a US/Canada and trickle of Euros event.

Texarkana
Nov. 29, 2007, 11:57 AM
I think they should definitely expand their card to add a few more races that appeal to the international crowd-- staying races, more grass races, etc. But we better somehow make it darn lucrative for the foreigners to ship in for those races, because there's no way in heck we could fill them with G1 caliber horses on our own.

But otherwise, I personally feel we pretty much have the bases covered. In my opinion, a Breeder's Cup Champion horse should be able to adapt to one of the challenges placed in front of it. Not have a challenge specifically written for it. Too many more races and I feel like any Tom, Dick, or Harry could have a Breeder's Cup "champion" if they can pick the right race and pony up the money. I kind feel like it would devalue it's meaning a little if we add much more, you know?

Glimmerglass
Nov. 29, 2007, 01:09 PM
Not have a challenge specifically written for it. Too many more races and I feel like any Tom, Dick, or Harry could have a Breeder's Cup "champion" if they can pick the right race and pony up the money.

You mean you are against a $1M Breeders' Cup 5-furlong race written just for maidens 3yrs and older who were sold at Keeneland or Fasig-Tipton for at least $3 million? How unkind are you? :D

The Green Monkey will be devistated to hear that!

Agreed that the BC is close to having pretty much has everything covered. We have to be careful not to want the BC to become like the Calder Extreme day with bits of unique racing. Nor should they steal the thunder from the Claiming Championships. However it would be neat to have a successful and hard working runner like Golden Hare enjoy some of that glory that comes from winning on a stage like Breeders' Cup day.

Barnfairy
Nov. 29, 2007, 02:29 PM
What, no Grey Goose Breeders' Cup Gray Pride? Or how about a Wrong Way race...surely this would attract the foreigners. ;) Expansion can go too far.

I thought a stakes race had to be held for at least two consecutive years before it could be eligible to be graded (hence why the MassCap lost its graded stakes status)? 'Not sure where I heard that or if it's even right.

Re: Golden Hare, that's why I like the Claiming Crown (http://www.claimingcrown.com/index2.htm). Though the stage is smaller and the purses a mere fraction of the Breeders' Cup, at least it's a chance at a little bit of glory and recognition for hard knock iron horses.

olympicdreams04
Nov. 29, 2007, 02:49 PM
What about the Dudley Do Right Cup for Canadian-breds? We could even make the jockeys ride backwards.

Glimmerglass
Nov. 29, 2007, 04:22 PM
I thought a stakes race had to be held for at least two consecutive years before it could be eligible to be graded (hence why the MassCap lost its graded stakes status)? 'Not sure where I heard that or if it's even right.

The DRF article indicated had to be held three-years, however the Breeders' Cup was granted special rights in the early 1980's for the first BC in '84 to be Grade 1 from the first running.

What is nice about the Claiming Crown is the very strong committment by the Ellis Park owners to this bit of glory to "the little" and indeed the hard knockers of this sport.

I'd hate to see the BC organizers skim off the cream of that claiming crown in some future addedl BC race.

Glimmerglass
Nov. 30, 2007, 11:55 AM
A neat little resource (in pdf): BloodHorse all US graded stakes for 2008 (in pdf file) (http://www.bloodhorse.com/pdf/2008GradedStakes.pdf)

It includes the disatance for each race too ;)

I don't see the Mass Cap (as expected) having been restored to a graded level yet.

WhiteCamry
Dec. 2, 2007, 06:33 PM
Howzabout chariot races?

gubbyz
Dec. 3, 2007, 01:31 AM
Oh chariot races! With hot men in small toga things! I think an egg on the spoon race or dollar bill race would be quite fun.

Glimmerglass
Dec. 3, 2007, 10:11 AM
I think an egg on the spoon race or dollar bill race would be quite fun.

Would that be a graded or ungraded race? ;)

Texarkana
Dec. 3, 2007, 11:54 AM
What about the Dudley Do Right Cup for Canadian-breds? We could even make the jockeys ride backwards.

In all seriousness, I think a race for foreign-breds could be a good idea. It might encourage some more "imports" to enter, and maybe it would be a way to reduce some of the nomination complications posed to the non-USA bred horses. It would also give some justification to the "World" Championships title.

The big questions would be what type of race would be most likely to fill with top notch horses. Dirt or grass? Sprint? Classic distance? Something longer? I would think a longer race on the grass would be most successful, but who knows...

The rest of the these suggestions are awesome. I'm all for G1 $1 million egg-on-spoon. :lol:

Drvmb1ggl3
Dec. 3, 2007, 12:09 PM
In all seriousness, I think a race for foreign-breds could be a good idea. It might encourage some more "imports" to enter, and maybe it would be a way to reduce some of the nomination complications posed to the non-USA bred horses. It would also give some justification to the "World" Championships title.

The big questions would be what type of race would be most likely to fill with top notch horses. Dirt or grass? Sprint? Classic distance? Something longer? I would think a longer race on the grass would be most successful, but who knows...


I don't think restricted races, other than 2yo and F/M races, should be a part of the BC.
One thing that is a detterent to real foreign participation, outside of Euro horses, is the prohibitive supplimental fee for non nominated horses. Not so much a problem for European horses as most are nominated through the reciprocal agreement with the EBF, but it scares off many AUS/NZ, Jap, HK and S American horses. Maybe having a certain number of invitaional spots set aside, or letting the winners of certain foreign races get a spot.
Arguably the best Turf horses in the world at the moment are in the far east.... Admire Moon, Pop Rock, Viva Pataca, Vengance of Rain, Delta Blues.

Still think the 7 furlong Turf courses, 2 tight turns and a short stretch, don't help either. Looking at the images on the Googe Maps thread gives a good illustration of rare that is outside of the US.

Barnfairy
Dec. 3, 2007, 12:21 PM
In all seriousness, I think a race for foreign-breds could be a good idea. It might encourage some more "imports" to enter, and maybe it would be a way to reduce some of the nomination complications posed to the non-USA bred horses. It would also give some justification to the "World" Championships title.

The big questions would be what type of race would be most likely to fill with top notch horses. Dirt or grass? Sprint? Classic distance? Something longer? I would think a longer race on the grass would be most successful, but who knows...
It seems to me that a long turf race would be most appropriate, but as we can see so clearly in the Google map thread, I think it would be difficult to adequately accommodate this on a continual basis in the US.

At the risk of sounding like an isolationist, sometimes I think it would just make more sense to drop the whole "world championships" claim -- who are we kidding here? Wasn't the Breeders' Cup founded along the lines of encouraging (American) horses to keep running beyond the Triple Crown races and other early classics? (We all see how well that's working! ;))



The rest of the these suggestions are awesome. I'm all for G1 $1 million egg-on-spoon. :lol:Shouldn't the egg & spoon be a GAA?

Texarkana
Dec. 10, 2007, 10:58 AM
It's official!

Three Races Added to Breeders' Cup for '08 (http://www.ntra.com/content.aspx?type=news&id=29883)
NTRA.com
12/10/07


The new Breeders’ Cup World Championships races, which will be run on Breeders’ Cup Friday, are:


$1 million Breeders’ Cup Turf Sprint; 3-year-olds and up; 6 ½ furlongs (turf)

$1 million Breeders’ Cup Juvenile Fillies Turf; 2-year-old fillies; 1 mile (turf)

$500,000 Breeders’ Cup Dirt Marathon; 3-year-olds and up; 1 ½ miles


Sadly, it looks like they didn't consider the GAA $1 million Egg-On-Spoon sponsored by the USDA. Their loss... :lol:

Glimmerglass
Dec. 10, 2007, 11:25 AM
$500,000 Breeders’ Cup Dirt Marathon; 3-year-olds and up; 1 ½ miles

I can only imagine the great iron horse Exterminator looking down from above with hearty laugh at the almost offensive use of the word marathon - come on!

Can't they at least try for 1 7/8 if not 2 miles? IMHO 1 1/2 miles is what the BCC should be at as the Jockey Club Cup once was.

Texarkana
Dec. 10, 2007, 11:48 AM
Oh, I agree, it's pretty silly when the "marathon" is only 2 furlongs longer than the classic. Just proving how narrow our view of racing has become...

Even funnier, there's a bigger purse for 2 year old fillies on the grass. I'm sorry, but that division is just over the top for me. You can't convince me there's enough 2 y/o turf-running females competitive at a G1 level to justify that race. If you have a filly that's really that good, she can run with the boys. But that's just my opinion.

And I will never understand our infatuation with sprinting on the grass...

Drvmb1ggl3
Dec. 10, 2007, 03:37 PM
1½m doesn't seem like much of a marathon really, but I suppose they'll have no one show up if they make it a real distance race. Thing is it may end being a 1 5/8m race by default, as most tracks outside of Belmont would have difficulty carding a 1½m race due to configuration.
I say go to a 1¾m and run it out of the 6f chute, just about any track can card that distance.

Glimmerglass
Dec. 10, 2007, 06:21 PM
With the 2008 Breeders' Cup being held at Santa Anita (2009 is still an unknown; I suspect Arlington Park will try for it) they can easily accomodate the longer distance (1 1/2 mi) and one can assume their synthetic track will perform just fine. With some good weather the BC officials might just have one banner wagering and attendance numbers for next year's event.

miss_critic
Dec. 11, 2007, 12:09 AM
I think a lot will be said about the use of the word "marathon" in the next year. We all seem to be of the same opinion here. But how many opportinities are there out there for horses to race at this distance? And could this possibly have a negative effect on the Classic like the new mile could? I suppose the $1 million and $5 million might prevent that.

I saw the turf dash here in PA on their big day and I will admit, it was pretty exciting to watch. Not saying I am for it, but it was fun.

Texarkana
Dec. 11, 2007, 10:09 AM
I saw the turf dash here in PA on their big day and I will admit, it was pretty exciting to watch. Not saying I am for it, but it was fun.

I totally agree they can be fun. It was a blast when Hold The Salt (http://www.kentuckydowns.com/images/TurfDashBG.jpg) paid $25.60 to win in the Kentucky Cup Turf Dash.

But on the whole, I liken sprinting on the turf to watching the Arabs sprint 6 furlongs on the dirt. I just scratch my head and wonder why we do this, let alone have a soon-to-be G1 million dollar championship for it. :lol:

Glimmerglass
Dec. 12, 2007, 09:01 AM
2009 Breeders' Cup at Churchill?

I thought, per published comments, the good folks at CDI said 'not interested' due to the lack of financial motivations. Evidently its down to Santa Anita and Churchill Downs (http://www.courier-journal.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=2007712110305) which if the former would be unprecidented with it staying at the same place two years in a row.

As a betting man I suspect the SA hosting back to back might work if for more public relations then not. Belmont, Churchill, and even Gulfstream are dirt tracks. We've seen enough European media - and US press too - say it isn't suitable. Belmont has offered some of the lowest crowd sizes in BC history and weather is questionable in the Northeast in late Oct/early Nov.

Arlington likewise has a very good chance for poor weather that time of the year and seating while perfect for the Million and just about any day during their meets it was a bit too small for the BC.

LA, California despite the rains, floods, riots, fires, earthquakes, smog, botox, heavy traffic, and other natural and human created problems is still on an average November day better then 90% of the rest of the country. Plenty of seating, ample hotel space (especially with this being a true 2-day event), close airport access, attractive and well kept facility, plus the synthetic course and very good turf course. Hard to give the nod to another Jr' sized track over that.

Anyone else think SA and perhaps more importantly the BC staying still for two years at one location to better invest in the marketing is a smart move?

Glimmerglass
Dec. 13, 2007, 11:33 AM
Some upshot already with the "marathon" 1 1/2 mi race as part of the Breeders' Cup:


With the Breeders' Cup announcing the creation of the inaugural Breeders' Cup Dirt Mile[sic] at 1 1/2 miles, NYRA, Keeneland, and Philadelphia Park have put together a series of marathon races to lead up that event.

NYRA took the Brooklyn and moved it from the fall to the spring and will run it at 1 1/2 miles on June 6, the day before the Belmont Stakes. The Brooklyn had been run at 1 1/2 miles from 1977-90. This year, it was run at a 1 1/16 miles on Sept. 22.

Source: DRF 12-12-07 "NYRA alters stakes schedule" (http://drf.com/news/article/90968.html)

Barnfairy
Dec. 13, 2007, 02:43 PM
Terrific. 'Love to see longer distance races on the cards.

(Though as someone who has ridden several 15- and 20-mile rides that don't even qualify as "limited distance" in the endurance world, I, too, find the term "marathon" laughable.)

Texarkana
Dec. 13, 2007, 02:46 PM
Well that's really cool! But can we drop the term "marathon" already? It's only 2 furlongs! There's a bigger difference in distance between the Sprint and the Classic. :lol:

WhiteCamry
Dec. 14, 2007, 09:53 AM
NYRA is moving both the B'klyn H. and the Man o'War S. ahead to July (http://thoroughbredtimes.com/racing-news/2007/December/12/NYRA-moves-Man-o-War-Brooklyn-to-Belmont-spring-summer-meet.aspx).

Glimmerglass
Feb. 7, 2008, 12:18 PM
Despite the fact that Santa Anita continues to struggle with track problems they are the leading candiate for the 2009 Breeders' Cup. If so awarded it would be the first back to back hostings - which isn't a bad thing as the marketing folks could work with that.

LA Times 2-7-08 "Santa Anita could host Breeders' Cup in 2009" (http://www.latimes.com/sports/printedition/la-sp-breeders7feb07,1,3643970.story)

excerpt


The site of the 2009 Breeders' Cup will be announced today, and Santa Anita officials are confident their facility will get the nod. If that is the case, it would mean back-to-back Breeders' Cups for the Arcadia facility during the fall Oak Tree meeting there.

"I think we're the leading candidate," said Allen Gutterman, the track's vice president of marketing.

Sherwood "Chilli" Chillingworth, executive vice president and director of the Oak Tree Racing Assn., also expressed optimism in getting the bid.

Glimmerglass
Feb. 15, 2008, 04:54 PM
Santa Anita was of course awarded the 2009 Breeders' Cup hosting and so now Southern California will have it for 2008 and 2009 - rains, wind, heat, fire, earthquake, snakes, killer bees, traffic, the OC Housewives, taxes and smog all be damned :)

Here is someone who is not a fan: Gary West Dallas/Ft Worth Telegram 2-15-08 "Santa Anita's perfect in scheme to ruin racing" (http://www.star-telegram.com/sports/columnists/gary_west/story/475821.html)

Also on the Breeders' Cup expansion is the number of 'Win and you're In"* events.

*you're in provided you've been nominated and there is no free ride: entry fee must be paid

DRF 2-14-08 "'Win and You're In' expands to 49 races" (http://www.drf.com/news/article/92273.html)


Woodbine landed six races, marking the first time "Win and You're In" races will be run outside the United States. At Emerald Downs, the Longacres Mile will be used as a "Win and You're In" race for the BC Dirt Mile.

Other new tracks in the program this year are Calder, Delaware Park, Monmouth Park, and Suffolk Downs. Two races from Calder's popular Summit of Speed, the Princess Rooney and the Smile, are part of the schedule.

So now for the Breeders' Cup Classic auto entries (http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/othersports/351396_hoss15.html) will come from a variety of races including the still ungraded Mass Cap. Clearly giving that race a big boost in 2008.


The winners of five of the 49 Breeders' Cup Challenge races will earn berths in the $5 million Breeders' Cup Classic, the richest of the world championship races. Those qualifying races are the Whitney Handicap at Saratoga (July 26), the Pacific Classic at Del Mar (tentatively scheduled for Aug. 24), the Massachusetts Handicap at Suffolk Downs (Sept. 20), the Jockey Club Gold Cup at Belmont (Sept. 27) and the Goodwood Stakes at Santa Anita (tentatively scheduled for Sept. 27).

Glimmerglass
Mar. 23, 2009, 04:45 PM
The much mocked (and rightfully so) use of the term marathon has resulted in the 'powers that be' expanding the distance. Ok so it's not 2 miles but it's inching closer ;)

March 20, 2009 "Breeders’ Cup Marathon extended" (http://www.thoroughbredtimes.com/racing-news/2009/March/20/Breeders-Cup-Marathon-extended.aspx)


Breeders’ Cup Ltd. has lengthened the distance of the $500,000 Breeders’ Cup Marathon to 1 ¾ miles for this year’s edition at Santa Anita Park.

“In furthering our commitment for a high caliber extended distance race in the World Championships, the racing and nominations committee strongly recommended the lengthening of the Marathon to 14 furlongs to bring the race in line with the category standards of the International Federation of Horseracing Authorities,” said Robert T. Manfuso, the [BC] committee’s chairman.

Barnfairy
Mar. 23, 2009, 11:12 PM
Hmm. Still not a million dollar race, though.

Are there even any other races run at a mile & 3/4 in America now, graded or not?

(and p.s., regarding the prior post from Feb, the MassCap for 09 has graded status returned - G3, as I'm sure one of us has probably already noted elsewhere)

Glimmerglass
Mar. 24, 2009, 12:37 AM
Are there even any other races run at a mile & 3/4 in America now, graded or not?

Santa Anita’s 1 ¾-mile San Juan Capistrano Handicap (G2) on turf on April 19 is the longest graded stakes race on the current schedule. Otherwise I believe the 1 1/2 mile distance is about the longest graded dirt distance around for both the Grade 1 Belmont Stakes and Grade 2 Brooklyn Handicap also at Belmont Park being the highest graded and longest distance graded races left.