Gaited horses in CDE?

[tennwalker17]

Hello. I am new to posting here, although I have been lurking for quite some time. I have driven Shire pairs and some draft crosses before, but have recently become very interested in CDE. I was just wondering if it is appropriate to show a gaited horse (I have a Walker) in the dressage phase, and how they would judge a gaited horse vs a non-gaited horse?

My appologies in advanced for such a silly question!:winkgrin:

Thank You!

[pricestory]

Actually, we had a Tennessee Walker in our Horse Driving Trial a few years ago but when in harness, he trotted. He walked when ridden.
I think you would get killed because your horse wouldn't ever do the "trot" as required in the test.
We used to have a few gaited horses driving in our area and for our unrecognized pleasure shows, we offered a gaited division.
Maybe if there are some unrecognised ADT or HDT in your area, you could talk to the organizer and judge and come to play. Seems a shame to not get to play the games you want to, just because of no trot.
We do have some TDs on board so maybe they will have a different read on the situation.

[Drive NJ]

Driving gaited (non-trotting) horses in dressage has been a question that gets brought up year after year and unfortunately it always gets the same answer
At a regular CDE against trotting horses, you are going to get clobbered for not trotting. You just are not doing what the test asks for.

There have been a few individual CDEs or HDTs who have made accomodations for some of their local non-trotting entries by having a separate division or by allowing the entry to drive HC (not scored with the rest of the class) but this is the exception and not the norm

At more local or smaller shows, sometimes arrangements can be made but it will take some talking with the organizer on your part. If your local show is seeking entries rather than over-subscribed, you have a better chance of making things work

While technically it sounds simple to just substitute the "gait" for the trotting requirements, it takes the agreement of the organizers and the judges to make it happen

It does not mean that you cannot enjoy just driving your horse for your own pleasure, but its going to take some work and convincing others to let you play at CDE

Good luck to you if you want to try for it

[Ashemont]

This has come up at ridden dressage shows from time to time. A friend of mine found the solution: she started ridden dressage for gaited horses :) BTW she's also a driver and owns Phoenix's mom - Claudia Coombs :D

[War Admiral]

So, question for those who do CDE's regularly - I haven't kept up with the ADS rules, but I thought at one time they had a rule specifically permitting "intermediate gait" instead of trot?? Has that rule been changed?

[Drive NJ]

I dont think it was ever a rule for CDE - since it is not something that the FEI is EVER going to accept . . .

but WA you are right - I do think I remember something in the pleasure rules, more particularly for obstacle classes - to allow for the "gait" instead of the trot - so you would not be penalized for break of pace

[War Admiral]

Oh DUH, you're absolutely right, DNJ, it WAS in the pleasure rules! Thanks for reminding me!

[tennwalker17]

Thank you everybody for your responses!
She will trot, and if she has it her way, usually does :eek: so maybe it can still be in our future!
Thank you again for your replies and I look forward to chatting with you soon!

[Thomas_1]

For sure if you were talking about competing SUCCESSFULLY then if you were in the UK or competing at fei level, you wouldn't be doing it with one of the "gaited" breeds.

And because you wouldn't be able to get the scores needed in the dressage phase.

[Wallyze]

Orlov Trotters dont do so well in the dressage,....make up for it else where though.

[Renae]

Orlov Trotters dont do so well in the dressage,....make up for it else where though.

Wow, that came out of left field. Orlov Trotters would not be considered gaited horses in America. Gaited horses are the ones that perform the 4 beat easy saddle gaits, the Tennessee Walking Horse, Missouri Fox Trotter, Kentucky Mountain Saddle Horse, Paso Fino, Peruvian Paso, etc.

[Thomas_1]

Orlov Trotters dont do so well in the dressage
What would make an Orlov Trotter classified as a "gaited breed".

Icelandic ponies to add to the list by Renae

[goodhors]

Please be aware, that if you let your TWH keep trotting you take the chance of losing the Running Walk. Trotting is easier, horse will go with whatever is the least effort. This loss would be even more likely if you polish that trot, to get the 3 trots needed to do well in Driving competitions. We know some gaited horses this has happened with. Even flat shod, a TWH can be tweaked to have a better running walk, not encourage any trot.

The best gaited horses here are not allowed to trot, often don't know how, not part of their natural gaits. This is not including Saddlebreds or pacing Standardbreds. I also would not include Orlov's as a gaited horse, though they were renowned for their trotting speed before Standardbreds were developed.

[Wallyze]

Orlovs are not gaited, they just don't do well in the dressage phase but streak around the roads and obstacles.

Icelandics must show a good trot in the 4 gait ridden classes. If they are 5 gaited they must show all 5 gaits clearly and well and not mix them up.

BTW There is no word in Icelandic for pony so they must be horses!

[Renae]

Orlovs are not gaited,


Um, then why bring them up in a thread about driving gaited horses :confused:

[Gestalt]

Wallyze the same goes for my Std :), no he isn't gaited and I know the original post was regarding gaited, but... just generally speaking of types or breeds of horses that aren't as suitable for CDE's.

I know if I want to be competitive I would need a horse that's "handier" and that can perform dressage tests more easily than my guy. I don't can if I win, place or show though, he is a blast and I trust him. And for a green driver that's a good thing. And he definitely is #1 fun on the marathon, his trot is :D :D :D!!!!!

[Wallyze]

********"Wallyze the same goes for my Std , no he isn't gaited and I know the original post was regarding gaited, but... just generally speaking of types or breeds of horses that aren't as suitable for CDE's.********

Exactly, gaited horses do not do well in dressage, Orlovs do not do well in dresage. Icelandics can only compete against each other and you can choose to show trot OR tölt for the test, but you cannot swap between gaitns.

[Renae]

Here in the U.S. you could certainly show your Icelandic against "regular" horses if it reliably trots in harness. I've shown Icelandics under saddle in front of both American and Icelandic judges and you most certainly do not get to choose what gait you wish to do when, you do the gait that you are being called on to do. The Orlov Trotter is basically non-existant here, but there are certainly Standardbreds, even ex-harness racers, who compete and do well in both ridden and driven dressage.

[War Admiral]

Have to agree w/ Renae on this, I've seen plenty of Standardbreds who were *very* good at driven dressage. As with any off-the-track horse it's just a matter of slow, careful retraining. They have to learn to use themselves in a totally different way than the way they were trained at the track. It takes time and hard work, but it's do-able. STBs are fantastic horses and I'd loff to have one for riding *and* driving!

[goodhors]

What we were told by higher level Multiples drivers, was that Standardbreds take too much work to get needed excellent results in Dressage. They are lovely horses, but long, lean body style is against them.

Both Standardbreds and Orlovs, are built for speed, bred the fastest to the fastest, got the great speed they are known for. This speed is attained going in straight moving ways, not bending, flexing, allows the huge overreach of the driving rear end. The best ones have a more straight, even rigid, spinal carriage in motion.

Stiff spine makes it VERY hard for them to be bending, flexing, while going forward. Not bred for bendable body. I have huge respect for the drivers who gave us this opinion. Heck, one of them showed an Appy at the World Pairs and WON!! Not a breed prejudice thing. Those guys will drive what wins.

So even though Standardbreds are very capable in pulling carriages, often kindly horses, very available, they take a lot of personal work, to get bendable. You must continue to work on the Dressage aspects, to keep them capable of scoring reasonably. I don't know any who score VERY well, but could be missing some good ones. If horse is your one and only, has you to put in the extra time and work, he might be one like WA talks about. Most Standardbreds just can't get the good scores. They are just not capable of moving the way judges want to see, not his fault, but his speed breeding.

More of the Driver needing to pick the correct body style, able to do what you want. Driving Standardbreds would seem to be a "natural" in CDE, but they are far from the most common breed used. If a horse can't do a good scoring Dressage, it will hurt in the other sections. Raw speed is not really that beneficial on Marathon, since too early is penalized like being too late. Horse needs to be bendable for Hazards and Cones, so his job is easier.

ALL EQUINES must do the gaits required in Dressage. This would be a LOT of trotting, not gaiting. If equine can't trot, he won't score well. Same with Pleasure Driving. If trot is required in a particular class, equine MUST trot to be considered for ribbons. Performance classes, Obstacles, Games, where time is the criteria, are do-able with a gaited horse. Read your rules, know what classes in shows require for gaits.

Every breed can't be the best at everything, despite breed publicity! I like gaited horses, but they were made first for riding comfort. Light vehicle behind, you can have fun. They just are not the best breed for CDEs. Why wreck a nice gaiting animal, trying to make it trot? Not what he was made to be doing. I love my big (over 16H) horses, but they would be very unhappy if I decided to make them competitive barrel, cutting or reining horses. Body style is not the most suitable, they probably will hurt themselves trying.

[Gestalt]

Absolutely goodhors, that is what my trainer told me. My guy is safe and fun, he tries hard, but to push him to be competitive wouldn't be fair. He just isn't made to bend. He did compete in ridden dressage through 1st level and we scored decently. He is super fun to gallop and jump, but he doesn't like to collect and he gets uncomfortable with 10 m circles.

[Wallyze]

Most Icelandic trots here are not what a dressage judge is looking for.

[paohatch]

I rarely post but I must completely agree with Goodhorz. If you have a good gaited horse, and then you ask him to trot, you will eventually 'mess' with his gait. We are re-habbing a 10 yr old unregistered TWH who was allowed to pull an amish cart for a few years and after 1 yr of serious training, he is finally not trotting, between gaiting, pacing, racking, etc. Very confused boy!.


Goodhorz says
Every breed can't be the best at everything, despite breed publicity! I like gaited horses, but they were made first for riding comfort. Light vehicle behind, you can have fun. They just are not the best breed for CDEs. Why wreck a nice gaiting animal, trying to make it trot? Not what he was made to be doing. I love my big (over 16H) horses, but they would be very unhappy if I decided to make them competitive barrel, cutting or reining horses. Body style is not the most suitable, they probably will hurt themselves trying.

[ImaDriver]

Wow GoodHors I totally dissagree with you as to standardbreds and dressage. If you are talking about Standardbreds off the track, and are retraining them to be ridden, yes you may have to work much harder to get an older horse to become more bendable. But a youngster Standardbred who has not gone to the track is a completely different story. Even so,we had adopted a standardbred off the track, and he could turn on a dime, jump up and buck and twist like a snake. He was so bendable in fact he was too much for what we wanted and we gave him back to the adoption program. We adopted another one at four months from a racing breeding farm and trained him to carriage drive. Guess what, he didn't like to drive! As a four year old we gave him to someone else in the program that rode dressage, and within a month he was bringing home ribbons!
What a shame that people write off a breed as "unbendable", when there are so many loving Standardbreds doomed to go from the track to the Amish, where they are just a car to someone, and could instead be adopted into a loving home as someone's special horse. If you haven't been around the Standardbred breed recently, I can tell you that the old "slat sided" Standardbred has been replaced by very Thoroughbred looking Standardbreds, beautiful horses, many also look like Morgans, ours did. Every breed has individuals who are not talented and athletic, but if you are educated and competant as a trainer, you can get most horses to bend. After that, it's the combination of horse and rider that can continue on to higher levels in a sport, like dressage. As much talk as there is about it, and interest in it, most people who compete in dressage, do so at the lower levels, and never move up to the higher levels. There are many breeds competeing in dressage at lower levels, and they all do well. Don't write off an entire breed like that. It's usually the trainer or rider that lacks the knowledge to teach a horse to bend, not that the horse is incaple of it.
Give a horse a break. Standardbreds are willing and eager to please you, they are bred for it, or they wouldn't be willing to race till they drop.
by the way the website for the Standardbred Retirement Foundation is www.adoptahorse.org (http://www.adoptahorse.org) Go down the home page and see what today's Standardbred can do, and how versatile they are, and how gorgeous they look.

[goodhors]

Standardbreds are not the kind of ridden, Gaited horse that started on this post. We are taking away from that discussion, so I will post my Standardbred thoughts on another thread.