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View Full Version : Looking to next year --who do we have for Beijing?



Shrapnel
Nov. 22, 2007, 09:57 PM
The backbone of the U.S. team for the past few years is out-- the duo of Kim Severson and Winsome Adante.

Who will be contending for a spot on the U.S. team next year?

Combinations that come to mind:

Karen O'Connor/Theodore O'Connor
Gina Miles/McKinlaigh
Phillip Dutton/ The Foreman or Tru Luck

What happened to Bonnie Mosser's 2 horses? Will Becky Holder be ready? What about Stephen Bradley?

c_expresso
Nov. 22, 2007, 10:01 PM
Bruce and Jam probably.

And Mara Dean? Will Nicki Henley be back for 08? I hope... what an awesome combo.

I hope Stephen rides. Will he try to ride From or will Joshua be back in action next year? Who has the scoop....?

Does Phillip have any big rides?

Shrapnel
Nov. 22, 2007, 10:03 PM
Bruce sold Jam.

foxrun
Nov. 22, 2007, 10:07 PM
What about Heidi Carty and Northern Spy?

c_expresso
Nov. 22, 2007, 10:20 PM
Bruce sold Jam.

Woah, I didn't know that! Was this recently? I am out of the loop :lol:

Reynard Ridge
Nov. 22, 2007, 10:33 PM
Hong Kong. The equine portion of the Olympics are in HONG KONG. You might want to change the title. :yes:

Ellie K
Nov. 22, 2007, 10:41 PM
they're still officially the "Beijing Olympics" regardless of venue, since the Olympics are awarded to one city, not to multiple cities or to a country.

Eventrgrl
Nov. 22, 2007, 10:42 PM
well, i think you can bet on
Phillip Dutton and one of his... connaught/foreman/truluck
Karen O'Connor and one of hers... Teddy/Hugh Knows/Mandiba/Upstage

and then maybe:
Heidi White Carty and Northern Spy
Gina Miles and McKinlaugh
Bonnie Mosser and one of hers
Darren Chiacchia and Better I Do it... or Windfall??
Kim Severson and one of hers other than Dan?
Jon Holling and Direct Merger/Lion King
Becky Holder and Courageous Comet

yellow rose
Nov. 22, 2007, 11:23 PM
Hopefully Mara will go on her new horse. Haven't heard any more news on Nicki lately. Fingers crossed for a full recovery & great spring season for him. He is a pretty cool dude, last I saw him he was getting pretty grumpy in the stall.

Teddy should go fo sho.

yellowbritches
Nov. 22, 2007, 11:36 PM
Josh was ready for this fall season, but Stephen was hesitant to run him on the concrete footing (at least that was my understanding). He took him OI at Middleburg, and Josh looked very good. I think we will see plenty of him down in FL.


Bruce and Jam probably.

And Mara Dean? Will Nicki Henley be back for 08? I hope... what an awesome combo.

I hope Stephen rides. Will he try to ride From or will Joshua be back in action next year? Who has the scoop....?

Does Phillip have any big rides?

olympicdreams04
Nov. 22, 2007, 11:47 PM
Jam sold to Ireland for a cool mil and it is my understanding that, atleast for the time being, Windfall has been relagated to the breeding shed. I have my rooting shoes on for Teddy and Lion King.

TBCollector
Nov. 23, 2007, 07:04 AM
What about Gryffindor?
And what about Amy Tryon and one of her horses?

piccolittle
Nov. 23, 2007, 07:21 AM
I want Karen & Teddy and Jon & Monty!

Well whoever it is I'm already really excited :)

InVA
Nov. 23, 2007, 08:26 AM
well, i think you can bet on
Phillip Dutton and one of his... connaught/foreman/truluck
Karen O'Connor and one of hers... Teddy/Hugh Knows/Mandiba/Upstage

and then maybe:
Heidi White Carty and Northern Spy
Gina Miles and McKinlaugh
Bonnie Mosser and one of hers
Darren Chiacchia and Better I Do it... or Windfall??
Kim Severson and one of hers other than Dan?
Jon Holling and Direct Merger/Lion King
Becky Holder and Courageous Comet

Upstage? I doubt it! didn't he have run outs at his last several events? teddy or mandiba are definite maybes.. Comet? I'd love Becky to go but I also doubt it. I'd bet on philip dutton..

It seems such a LONG way off. I'm sure there is a dark horse out there somewhere...literally!

Painted Wings
Nov. 23, 2007, 08:35 AM
I'm going to watch. I'm hoping Teddy makes it on the team.

Jazzy Lady
Nov. 23, 2007, 08:57 AM
I'm not even American, but I would love to see Jon Holling on it.

v22955
Nov. 23, 2007, 09:19 AM
I think Dutton and O'Connor will make the team. I'm not sure who could possibly fill the other spots, but I think Heidi Carty and Northern Spy have a serious shot at a team spot. Look they've done well at the CCI**** many times.

annikak
Nov. 23, 2007, 10:18 AM
I think Lion King was sold, too- and Jon got the impressive Tinkatoo.... anyone confirm that?

piccolittle
Nov. 23, 2007, 10:47 AM
Tink and Simba were both at Willow Run earlier this month when I was there, and though everyone was excited about Tinkatoo's purchase and his future, no mention was made of Simba's sale, past or future. I think it was just another horse added to his very exciting string.

LexInVA
Nov. 23, 2007, 11:36 AM
And what about Amy Tryon and one of her horses?

I don't think she's doing anything relating to eventing at the moment.

piccolittle
Nov. 23, 2007, 12:08 PM
Oh yeah, is AT still banned? Anyone know when/where she's planning on competing?

pwynnnorman
Nov. 23, 2007, 02:38 PM
I think Heidi Carty has been quite wisely and carefully saving Northern Spy to make sure he's ready.

Anyone know what happened to Poggio? I'd have liked to have seen him go.

GotSpots
Nov. 23, 2007, 03:44 PM
One place to start might be the high performance squads (http://www.usef.org/_IFrames/newsDisplay/viewPR.aspx?id=2188). This is the list from June - I think it is updated sometime soon based on fall three days, soundness, etc., but don't know.

LexInVA
Nov. 23, 2007, 07:12 PM
Oh yeah, is AT still banned? Anyone know when/where she's planning on competing?

I think her two month suspension has ended. She hasn't been involved in anything since her suspension began for obvious reasons and there has not been any news about her since then. The international community wasn't very pleased with the FEI ruling so I'm not sure if or when she will be competing again at that level.

TBCollector
Nov. 23, 2007, 07:31 PM
She had back surgery and has been recuperating but I'm sure by now she's getting on horses.

sofiethewonderhorse
Nov. 24, 2007, 10:11 AM
>>She hasn't been involved in anything since her suspension began for obvious reasons and there has not been any news about her since then. The international community wasn't very pleased with the FEI ruling so I'm not sure if or when she will be competing again at that level.

I'm not sure what 'Obvious' reasons your are talking about LexInVa.

Amy had back surgery and then spent another six weeks recovering from a hospital infection. She ran horses at Galway last month and is planning the annual spring migration south (beginning in January).

She will be riding Coal Creek in the George Morris clinic at Whips & Spurs in Oregon next weekend.

Amy has been named the developing rider coach...I really don't think the ill manners of the Horse & Hound BB has much influence on 3-Day Eventing on the International Level.

Regards

Kathryn

Bensmom
Nov. 24, 2007, 10:25 AM
And, I have no insight into who might make the Team, but I wanted to step in and defend my boy and note that Upstage has had only one xc jump penalty at Fair Hill and since Rolex, he has competed at Millbrook (I), Richland Park (***) , Wits End (A) and Fair Hill (3day***).

Will he be on the list? I'll be surprised if he is, since Karen has such a strong string of nice horses and he's been passed over before, but his record isn't full of run outs :)

libby
(pres. Upstage fan club :lol: :D )

pwynnnorman
Nov. 24, 2007, 04:55 PM
Amy had back surgery and then spent another six weeks recovering from a hospital infection. She ran horses at Galway last month and is planning the annual spring migration south (beginning in January).

She will be riding Coal Creek in the George Morris clinic at Whips & Spurs in Oregon next weekend....Kathryn

Do you know anything about what Poggio's future looks like, Kathryn? How old is he now? 14? [Hey! I tried looking him up to find his age and noticed that his WEG results aren't listed. What gives? Also, didn't there used to be a link to the horse's statistics other than results?]

topaz731
Nov. 24, 2007, 07:06 PM
Both From and Josh are going to FL this year and would hopefully think Rolex. Hard ground was part of it this fall with Josh- obviously since they unfortunately pulled from Fair Hill- but better to have a sound horse and miss that then no horse at the end which is why I admire him so much. He puts his horses' welfare above anything no matter what. I'm pulling for Josh personally- he deserves it (especially after last year's WEG) and is just the sweetest thing ever.

annikak
Nov. 24, 2007, 07:15 PM
I like From, as he came (well, kind of...) from MI. Katja Diehl (she then became leskanin, or something like that) was from right here. I think she sold him to Peter Green, and then he went to Stephen. He is a lovely horse!:yes::yes:

sofiethewonderhorse
Nov. 24, 2007, 07:25 PM
Do you know anything about what Poggio's future looks like, Kathryn? How old is he now? 14? [Hey! I tried looking him up to find his age and noticed that his WEG results aren't listed. What gives? Also, didn't there used to be a link to the horse's statistics other than results?]


Poggio has ran around Rolex, how many times? 4, 5? Let's see, we have been 2x, didn't get to go last year (that's 3) Pogi ran Rolex in 2002, don't know about 01.

Amy feels Poggio has ran around Rolex enough, I seriously doubt he will be going next year.

I haven't figured out USEA's new 'Dashboard' thing either...I can't even keep track of my own horses'

PS Pogi is 17

Regards

Kathryn

LexInVA
Nov. 25, 2007, 07:24 AM
I'm not sure what 'Obvious' reasons your are talking about LexInVa.

Amy had back surgery and then spent another six weeks recovering from a hospital infection. She ran horses at Galway last month and is planning the annual spring migration south (beginning in January).

She will be riding Coal Creek in the George Morris clinic at Whips & Spurs in Oregon next weekend.

Amy has been named the developing rider coach...I really don't think the ill manners of the Horse & Hound BB has much influence on 3-Day Eventing on the International Level.

Regards

Kathryn

She was suspended for two months. It's not hard to see the logic there unless you forget or ignore what happened. It doesn't matter if she's been on Broadway doing the latest revival of Chicago, the fact of the matter is, she hasn't been competing and therefore not being productive in the one thing she's any good at. Amy has always been controversial since she became a ULR and she will likely continue to be that way until she leaves the game. I know the USEF loves to wrap it's ULRs in the warm fuzzy blanket of protection but you can bet that had she not had the financial backing from the Broussards and other high rollers of the USEA, she would have been dropped faster than a leper in a swimsuit competition. Regardless, she still needs donors to foot her bills unless the Broussards are going to leave her a few million and some of their horses in their wills.

TBCollector
Nov. 25, 2007, 07:29 AM
Amy has always been controversial since she became an Olympic athlete and she will likely continue to be that way until she leaves the game. I.

Excluding the incident at Rolex, what do you mean? I'm not being snarky; I just don't know what you mean.

LexInVA
Nov. 25, 2007, 08:22 AM
Excluding the incident at Rolex, what do you mean? I'm not being snarky; I just don't know what you mean.

Well, for starters, they have been spinning her for years as some working class female firefighter who struggled and became an Olympic athlete. Amy only went with that career because it allowed her to come and go as she pleased to focus on her "real career" in addition to giving her health benefits and a job that was she could always go to should her life as an equestrian be interrupted or end. She had been Eventing long before she became a firefighter/EMT and she had certainly spent more time doing eventing related activities than her "other career". For her it was a simple matter of convenience rather than noble choice to enter that line of work. Amy has also suffered from ULR-itis in that she has made public statements about lower level riders that are contrary to the behavior of the kind of person that "came up through the ranks". Her biggest supporters in the USEF/USEA are controversial enough if you know anything about them as individuals outside the eventing world but I'll leave it at that.

yellow rose
Nov. 25, 2007, 08:34 AM
It's tough to speculate who is going to be on the team until after the spring 3 days. Things change in the fall, over the winter, horses go lame, horses get better... you know.

I think Teddy and Northern Spy have a pretty safe bet. They are proven international competitors. I love those two horses and would really like them to respresent us.

Kentucky will be a very important competition this year. We're in need of good horses and riders right now, if any up-and-comers outshine the competition this spring I bet they'll be placed on the team, or at least as an alternate. Personally I am rooting for Allison and Arthur. Arthur's got the stuff and well Allison is just dang cool.

sofiethewonderhorse
Nov. 25, 2007, 08:35 AM
Well, for starters, they have been spinning her for years as some working class female firefighter who struggled and became an Olympic athlete. Amy only went with that career because it allowed her to come and go as she pleased to focus on her "real career" in addition to giving her health benefits and a job that was she could always go to should her life as an equestrian be interrupted or end. She had been Eventing long before she became a firefighter/EMT and she had certainly spent more time doing eventing related activities than her "other career". For her it was a simple matter of convenience rather than noble choice to enter that line of work. Amy has also suffered from ULR-itis in that she has made public statements about lower level riders that are contrary to the behavior of the kind of person that "came up through the ranks". Her biggest supporters in the USEF/USEA are controversial enough if you know anything about them as individuals outside the eventing world but I'll leave it at that.

I'm seeing Dejavu....

And who or what entitles you to defame this person? Let me tell you a little story...

There is an ULR that is 'god' in the event world. I publically defame that person on a regular basis BECAUSE I have had personal upfront interaction with that individual and candidly I feel they are a poor mascot (a position they hold by default).

Have you had that type of up close and personal contact with Amy? were you that Lower Level Rider? Who do you think her biggest supporters in USEF/USEA are? How do you know that?

I'm not sure what being 'snarky' means, but If I'm being 'snarky' I apologize.

Just a little tired of 'rumor' becoming 'fact'.

Regards

Kathryn

PS have you noticed that I don't hide behind a BB Alias?

CookiePony
Nov. 25, 2007, 08:58 AM
The USEF Selection Procedures for eventing make for very informative reading:

http://www.usef.org/documents/highPerformance/eventing/2008%20Olympic%20Selection%20Procedures.pdf

In addition to 3* and 4* events last year, several events up until June 15, 2008 will be tryout events. This includes a special "Selection Division" at Rolex Kentucky this coming year. Then there will be a Mandatory Outing in the U.S. and/or U.K. for no fewer than five horse/rider combinations (the Short List) between June 30, which is the deadline for naming the Short List, and July 15, which is the deadline for submitting the "USOC Final Entry."

Riders must apply for consideration for the team, and they must earn an FEI Certificate of Capability by June 30 2008-- this means they must have "achieved a qualifying result" (don't know exactly what this is) at a CCI4* OR at one CCI3* and one CIC3* in 2007 or 2008 (by 6/30). The Selection Division at Rolex is open to riders who already have their Certificate of Capability.

Eventrgrl
Nov. 25, 2007, 09:17 AM
So does that mean that the horse/rider combo doesnt have to have gone around a **** succesfully, just a ***? That opens up a lot more doors! If I remember correctly, people consider the Olympics XC to basically be a glorified **, correct?

sofiethewonderhorse
Nov. 25, 2007, 09:32 AM
This is correct Eventrgrl, a successful 3 Star Finish qualifies a horse/rider combo for the Olympic Team.


So does that mean that the horse/rider combo doesnt have to have gone around a **** succesfully, just a ***? That opens up a lot more doors! If I remember correctly, people consider the Olympics XC to basically be a glorified **, correct?

takeone4theteam
Nov. 25, 2007, 10:44 AM
I have been very relieved to have the forums go for months without the arguments about Amy Tryon. Please don't let this thread be just about her. Some of the posts are starting to border the angry side. Lets just speculate about the Olympics, Start a new thread if you want to continue the back and forth about Amy.

I know I am not the forum moderator or the thread police. But I have had my fill the last go around. Please lets keep this positive

Lose That
Nov. 25, 2007, 11:07 AM
I'm hoping for Heidi and Northern Spy and definately Karen and Teddy.

Also for Better I Do It.

I'll allow the Olympic selection committee to put in their two cents on the last one ;-)

sofiethewonderhorse
Nov. 25, 2007, 11:09 AM
Reā€“read the thread, it was started to create an argument about Amy. A couple of us are just trying to make sure the train stays honest.

Regards

Kathryn


I have been very relieved to have the forums go for months without the arguments about Amy Tryon. Please don't let this thread be just about her. Some of the posts are starting to border the angry side. Lets just speculate about the Olympics, Start a new thread if you want to continue the back and forth about Amy.

I know I am not the forum moderator or the thread police. But I have had my fill the last go around. Please lets keep this positive

piccolittle
Nov. 25, 2007, 11:38 AM
I hardly think the thread was started to create an argument about Amy.

Sorry I asked about her, was just wondering if she was competing lately as I hadn't seen her in results or entry lists. Just to clarify, I didn't intend to start a debate.

Back to the usual programming ;)

pwynnnorman
Nov. 25, 2007, 02:25 PM
When it comes to three-star horses, one thing I worry about is that we have good ones, but their records don't compare (in part, I think, due to sheer access to *** events) to Europeans' *** horses, especially the UKs. Using Karen's rides as an example, compared to, say, Call Again Cavalier or Miner's Frolic, they (Huge, Allstar, Mandiba) have started far fewer times at the *** (even the **) level, I think. To US, they've been pretty consistent, but just trying to compare, I did a search using horse and rider names and, geez, the number of opportunities the UK horses have had is just something. And all we have to enable more to quality and/or get experience are three widely-spaced *** (troublesome if some minor issue comes up, like Mandiba's bad luck at FH) and Rolex. The Europeans had a slew of opportunities this past fall alone.

And with the exit of Poggio and Dan, even our four-star horses have a lot less mileage at that level, comparatively--even Northern Spy, wouldn't you say? I suppose that can be good, soundness wise, but it just reminds me of the disadvantages we face here. It's amazing we've done as well as we have against the Europeans. Hey, can someone make a list here? What do we have now, after the sales and retirements? Who are the 4s and 3s possibilities? What's going on with Windfall? What about El Primero? Dobbin? Gryfinndor? Oh, goodness, McKinleigh, of course! How come his name hasn't come up? (Y'know, I wish we had a publication like Eventing UK that kinda constantly updated the situation. It's a really fun part of following the sport.)

sofiethewonderhorse
Nov. 25, 2007, 07:25 PM
I'll Start:

From
Sloopy
Teddy
Mandiba
Hugh
El Primera
Comet

Clear Blue
Nov. 25, 2007, 07:35 PM
Poggio competed at Jersey Fresh to make sure he was fully qualified for Beijing. Is there some news suggesting he has since been retired?

sofiethewonderhorse
Nov. 25, 2007, 07:37 PM
As I understand it, not retired, just not neccesarily running at Rolex.

VicarageVee
Nov. 25, 2007, 07:44 PM
My Votes:

1) Karen & Teddy (um, we all know this is a lock, right? unless he gets injured, knock on wood ;))
2) Gina Miles & McKinlaigh

Maybe I'd like to see:
Dutton? I love him and his horses, but I'd rather see Mara Dean on whomever she's got going, or Northern Spy.

What about the youngsters?:
Kelly Prather? Ballinakill Glory has been going really well recently....

InVA
Nov. 25, 2007, 07:59 PM
And, I have no insight into who might make the Team, but I wanted to step in and defend my boy and note that Upstage has had only one xc jump penalty at Fair Hill and since Rolex, he has competed at Millbrook (I), Richland Park (***) , Wits End (A) and Fair Hill (3day***).

Will he be on the list? I'll be surprised if he is, since Karen has such a strong string of nice horses and he's been passed over before, but his record isn't full of run outs :)

libby
(pres. Upstage fan club :lol: :D )

No offense intended. Woody is an adorable horse who has had a loooonnngg career. (did I say looonng?) I bet if you asked HIM, he'd give Beijing a miss for a nice field somewhere...

mjrtango93
Nov. 25, 2007, 08:11 PM
Well for some of the less knowns I think they will have a hard time making an Olympic team. Sara and Tony have done well, but the dressage isn't competitive enough for the Olympics, and the show jumping isn't always consistant.

For Kelly and Balinakill they haven't even proven themselves on the 3 star stage yet. Fair Hill was less then impressive with having to retire.

I have a feeling the US will go to the older horse rider combo's and hopefully take a Gryffindor (he's sound again isn't he?), or possibly Amy on a greener horse like Coal Creek or Leyland. At least she has the miles to take a greener horse in that atmosphere. Plus as far as I know Poggio rus run at Jersey to keep qualified and he's sound, with a great track record.

InVA
Nov. 25, 2007, 08:24 PM
I don't think anything is a "lock" at this point. There are horse and rider combos that aren't in the spotlight now that have as much chance to come down the center line in Beijing as any of the big name horses and riders.

VicarageVee
Nov. 25, 2007, 08:26 PM
[QUOTE=mjrtango93;2826135]
For Kelly and Balinakill they haven't even proven themselves on the 3 star stage yet. Fair Hill was less then impressive with having to retire.


I'm quite sure that she won the *** at Rebecca Farms and was second at the Galway ***. I think this qualifies as "proving" at a *** level for a west coast rider, we don't have oodles of *** and the trip cross country is hard on the horses.

Doodle
Nov. 25, 2007, 08:37 PM
Philip Dutton will go I think...

I mean, he didn't become an american for the exotic cuisine and wonderful social programs we have here, now did he?

;)

piccolittle
Nov. 25, 2007, 08:38 PM
I'm quite sure that she won the *** at Rebecca Farms

Thought it was the ** they won?

VicarageVee
Nov. 25, 2007, 08:41 PM
Thought it was the ** they won?

The USEA results page reads: "CIC3*". The Rebecca Farm website reads the same. El Primero placed 2nd in the ***.

piccolittle
Nov. 25, 2007, 08:44 PM
Ah, sorry. You know, I might be thinking of Splendorofthesun... or someone else... who knows *shrug*

Jazzy Lady
Nov. 25, 2007, 08:58 PM
Condsidering they sent their "A" team to the pan ams which is supposed to be a "growing team" experience, I doubt they will send the lesser knowns to the Olympics...

tuppysmom
Nov. 25, 2007, 09:20 PM
Sara and El Primero are planning to spend the winter working on the dressage phase with Debbie McDonald. Debbie is just back from Eu this week. Tony is improving every day. The sj at Rolex was a fluke, he had an injury to his mouth that caused him to be pretty much unridable in that phase. Hence the brand new hackamore in the tack box! He had a good showing at the Pan Am selection trial at Woodside in May and at the CIC***W at Rebecca Farm in July. He had some cramping on xc at Burghley after jumping fine through most of the course. Sara made the decision to pull up after fence 19. They were less than 11 points off the lead going into xc day. We opted to not compete him this fall and work on skills instead. He is fine and working daily with a plan to compete at Rolex. His overall record is very good with only 60 jumping penalties, total, from BN to today. 20 of those penalties were a jump judge error that was not protested in the 30 minute window. My fault, lesson learned.

BarbB
Nov. 25, 2007, 09:29 PM
I think Heidi and Northern Spy are Olympic quality and I hope they go.
I would think that Karen and Phillip would be considered shoo-ins if they have horses ready at the time.
I would love to see Courageous Comet go.

just out of curiosity...who had the ride on Better I Do It before Darren?

sofiethewonderhorse
Nov. 25, 2007, 09:32 PM
Now this is a very interesting thought..."A" team to Pan Ams

would you mind sharing your analysis? just curious....

I've never really thought about it that way, you mean because Teddy went to the Pan Ams?

Hey you could be totally right...a little sharing would be helpful


Condsidering they sent their "A" team to the pan ams which is supposed to be a "growing team" experience, I doubt they will send the lesser knowns to the Olympics...

piccolittle
Nov. 25, 2007, 09:41 PM
who had the ride on Better I Do It before Darren?

He was ridden for years up here in area 1 by Adrienne Iorio-Borden, who owns him or part owns him I think. Was actually surprised to learn Darren was riding him.

sofiethewonderhorse
Nov. 25, 2007, 09:41 PM
2003 Rolex says Dianne Roffe

Not verified! ;)


I think Heidi and Northern Spy are Olympic quality and I hope they go.
I would think that Karen and Phillip would be considered shoo-ins if they have horses ready at the time.
I would love to see Courageous Comet go.

just out of curiosity...who had the ride on Better I Do It before Darren?

mjrtango93
Nov. 25, 2007, 09:43 PM
That would be awesome if Sara could work on the dressage through the winter and really be in contention for team in the spring. She has quite a few miles under her belt already, and the dressage just seemed to be his weak link in the big shows. He is more then proven cross country with some great rounds at Rolex.

What I meant for Kelly about not 3 star proven is a CCI*** all the ones mentioned above are a CIC***, and trust me there is a big difference between a CIC and a CCI even with being short format.

Bensmom
Nov. 25, 2007, 09:54 PM
Dian Roffe first, and then Adrienne and now Darren, for Better I Do It.

InVa -- I don't disagree with you that Upstage will probably not be on the short list -- he's been passed over before when he was younger. I just couldn't let the impression that he was racking up the xc penalties hang around ;) :lol: :D

libby (who clearly just adores Woody)

Eventrgrl
Nov. 25, 2007, 10:02 PM
Now this is a very interesting thought..."A" team to Pan Ams

would you mind sharing your analysis? just curious....

I've never really thought about it that way, you mean because Teddy went to the Pan Ams?

Hey you could be totally right...a little sharing would be helpful

I dont know what Jazzy will say but I think most people thought that the fact that the US sent basically all "red coats" PD, K'OC, Stephen Bradley, Darren Chiacchia, Mara Dean, Gina Miles, etc. as supposed to Canada sending their promising YRs was like sending the A team... The Pan Ams are supposed to be like a starting point for new members, and even though a few of the US horses were not seasoned competitors, basically the lesser known riders were looked past (or ended up not going because of lameness) :(

Jazzy Lady
Nov. 25, 2007, 10:08 PM
I dont know what Jazzy will say but I think most people thought that the fact that the US sent basically all "red coats" PD, K'OC, Stephen Bradley, Darren Chiacchia, Mara Dean, Gina Miles, etc. as supposed to Canada sending their promising YRs was like sending the A team... The Pan Ams are supposed to be like a starting point for new members, and even though a few of the US horses were not seasoned competitors, basically the lesser known riders were looked past (or ended up not going because of lameness) :(

Yes, that is what I was referring to. The riders, not the horses.

InVA
Nov. 25, 2007, 10:35 PM
Condsidering they sent their "A" team to the pan ams which is supposed to be a "growing team" experience, I doubt they will send the lesser knowns to the Olympics...

whatver! they aren't going to send a team that can't WIN! ;-)

Jazzy Lady
Nov. 25, 2007, 10:47 PM
whatver! they aren't going to send a team that can't WIN! ;-)

hahah... precisely my point. They didn't give any "up and commers" a shot at the Pan Ams. They sure as heck won't do it for the Olympics.

takeone4theteam
Nov. 25, 2007, 11:05 PM
I would assume Phillip would go. Especially if The Foreman is on track next season. He has ridden in 3 games with 3 very different, very difficult horses. He has proven over and over that he can produce scores in a stressful, team environment.

I would also like to see Kristen go on Gryffindor.

pwynnnorman
Nov. 26, 2007, 11:02 AM
I think the only "locks" are the riders, not the horses. Karen and Phillip almost for sure--because they have, undoubtedly, the "deepest" stables in the country. I'd also put my money on Gina and McKinleigh--they've been almost foot-perfect for an awful long time.

I am super-sensitive myself about the dressage issue, of course, but in addition to that, look at the way some rack up stadium faults, too--and the tight times x-c. Didn't it used to be that you felt you had to be within 10 points of the dressage winner to have a chance? Do you think that's still the case?

VicarageVee
Nov. 26, 2007, 11:24 AM
I am super-sensitive myself about the dressage issue, of course, but in addition to that, look at the way some rack up stadium faults, too--and the tight times x-c. Didn't it used to be that you felt you had to be within 10 points of the dressage winner to have a chance? Do you think that's still the case?

I think that was true. But it seems as the sport splits breed-wise with the introduction of the short format we are increasingly seeing fancy WBx movers that nail dressage scores and often jump a clean stadium but will never be able to make time on an xc track. The standings almost always seem to do a serious reshuffle after xc, and not because of jump penalties--those WBs can't make the time, but the TBs have too much blood to compete in the dressage. (There are, of course, exceptions, I don't mean to suggest that TBs can't do dressage, nor that WBs can't make xc time....)

LisaB
Nov. 26, 2007, 11:30 AM
Karen and Phillip definitely as they have a string of advanced rides.
I saw Becky go at the AEC's and she absolutely deserves to go but the master of disaster doesn't like her.
Gina should go. I think she had a breakthrough moment working on the team at the Pan Ams
I also have seen Arthur and Allison go. They really should go as well. Wow! What a horse.
If Bonnie's horses are okay, I would love to see her go as well.
I think the other riders and horses aren't consistent enough or are too young. It's unfortunate that we didn't use the Pan Am's to develop our second stringers.
And personalities aside, there are a lot of a-holes that have been on the team and gotten us medals! I personally don't like a couple of them but they are competitors.

snoopy
Nov. 26, 2007, 11:33 AM
It's unfortunate that we didn't use the Pan Am's to develop our second stringers.
And personalities aside, there are a lot of a-holes that have been on the team and gotten us medals! I personally don't like a couple of them but they are competitors.


;):D:cool:

JenJ
Nov. 26, 2007, 12:04 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jazzy Lady
Condsidering they sent their "A" team to the pan ams which is supposed to be a "growing team" experience, I doubt they will send the lesser knowns to the Olympics...



whatver! they aren't going to send a team that can't WIN! ;-)

Even your "B" team would have been considered favourites and quite likely would have won the PanAms. We (Canada) did not send our most experienced pairs and I think many of us held our collective breathes because this was our last chance (I think) to qualify to send a team to Beijing. Our PanAm team performed spectacularly, but sending them was a calculated risk.

Of course, for the Olympics, it would be crazy for any country to send anything but your best and most experienced combinations.

tx3dayeventer
Nov. 26, 2007, 12:09 PM
What about Will Faudree and Antigua??? They were the traveling spares for Athens in 04. and have a Pan Am gold medal from 2003

I root for Will just because we were on 2 NAYRC teams together, have know each other since we were both 10 or 12, and we grew up showing together in good ole Area 5 :winkgrin:

mjrtango93
Nov. 26, 2007, 12:23 PM
Unfortunately I don't think Will and Brad will be considered as isn't Brad like 19 now. He's been sound and good but I think he is a bit older then they would want to take. I would vote for Will to go with something though. Met him years ago in Utah when he had Easy going prelim! Went through YR with him as well. Super nice guy and a good rider. Now he just needs a string to keep going.

snoopy
Nov. 26, 2007, 12:27 PM
What about Will Faudree and Antigua???


Isn't that horse like 100 YO now?;) How fantastic that he has managed such a long career.

snoopy
Nov. 26, 2007, 12:30 PM
[QUOTE=JenJ;2827373]Quote:
Even your "B" team would have been considered favourites and quite likely would have won the PanAms.QUOTE]


EXACTLY...and why "the B team" should have gone!!! The experience for those horse/rider combinations and the medal for mark.

IFG
Nov. 26, 2007, 12:59 PM
Dian Roffe first, and then Adrienne and now Darren, for Better I Do It.



What is cool is that she is Dianne Roffe-Steinrotter, and she won two olympic skiing medals. Two sport athletes are so awesome!

mosmom
Nov. 26, 2007, 02:33 PM
What about the other countries? For example now that (more than likely) the US has Phillip Dutton who will ride for Australia? Is there a website that would show who is riding and for what team?

InVA
Nov. 26, 2007, 03:14 PM
[QUOTE=JenJ;2827373]Quote:
Even your "B" team would have been considered favourites and quite likely would have won the PanAms.QUOTE]


EXACTLY...and why "the B team" should have gone!!! The experience for those horse/rider combinations and the medal for mark.

bingo, my friend. which is why they will send the team that has the best chance of winning.. no matter what, no matter who that is.

and I think Antigua is 102 years old now, bless his heart. almost as old as upstage!

Threeday33
Nov. 26, 2007, 07:42 PM
I just rode in a clinic with Will, and after talking to him I have to think he is shooting for the '08 Olympics with Brad, even though even he realizes it might be a long shot. He said Brad came off of Burghley incredibly well and they are shooting for Rolex. He'd be one of the horses that is hopefully allowed to have a very light season. Will takes excellent care of that horse and that horse is absolutely amazing.

Another long shot pair I'm rooting for is Karen on Bad Boy Billy...I know she only ran preliminary at Ocala, but I'm hoping she is on her way up the levels with him. Does anyone know if she is shooting for Rolex on him?

Bensmom
Nov. 26, 2007, 10:10 PM
Another long shot pair I'm rooting for is Karen on Bad Boy Billy...I know she only ran preliminary at Ocala, but I'm hoping she is on her way up the levels with him. Does anyone know if she is shooting for Rolex on him?

I'd love to know this too. Billy is an absolute sweetheart and I am so glad to see he is coming back, even if it can't be with Ralph at the moment. :sadsmile: I hope they do well together.

pwynnnorman
Nov. 27, 2007, 08:07 AM
FYI, Billy fans, in case you didn't see this before, I posted video of their stadium round on YouTube:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d-y3jZHmKJ8

I think there's another, of the second half of the course, but I'm confused now.

purplnurpl
Nov. 27, 2007, 10:18 AM
I highly doubt that Becky and Courageous Comet will go due to their show jumping issues.
A slightly unsteady dressage test is safer than the possibility of 4 rails SJ.
I think he had 3 rails at Maui Jim and 4 rails at the AECs? don't quote me.
It's too bad. I really really like CC.

And I do believe that the US could have mustered up a winning B team for the Pan Ams.

eqsiu
Nov. 27, 2007, 11:17 AM
What about the other countries? For example now that (more than likely) the US has Phillip Dutton who will ride for Australia? Is there a website that would show who is riding and for what team?

Australia's high performance squads (http://www.efanational.com/?Page=445)

Most of the national federations have some sort oflist on their website, you just have to find it.

My guesses are Andrew Hoy, a Fredericks or two, Wendy Shaeffer, and ?

pwynnnorman
Nov. 27, 2007, 11:25 AM
Isn't Phillip's new assistant an Aussie? Boyd Martin? I would have thought that with his recent finishes, he'd be on their list (but he isn't).

RiverBendPol
Nov. 27, 2007, 12:01 PM
I sure would like to see Bonnie on that team.

Xctrygirl
Nov. 27, 2007, 02:57 PM
I think the only "locks" are the riders, not the horses. Karen and Phillip almost for sure--because they have, undoubtedly, the "deepest" stables in the country. I'd also put my money on Gina and McKinleigh--they've been almost foot-perfect for an awful long time.

Ooooo see now we're tempting fate. There is no such thing as a lock. And if you don't buy it, ask Jan Bynny, Bonnie Mosser, Kim S, Umm Bruce, Karen, Abigail Lufkin, Buck and so on.

For me the trick to the 2008 Olympics is the timing and the travel.

These games are running in early August. That's a whopping 4.5 months after Rolex. A month before the normal Burghley dates. And that might make for some interesting developments.

What I mean is that its hard to keep a 4 star horse in peak form for a long time. You figure the run up to selection begins no later than March, nearly 6 months prior to the games.
Even after all the spring three days are run, you have to allow enough time for a contending horse to recover, have a decent rest and be brought back up to peak form a second time. Thats just not as easy as it sounds. And I expect that we'll see a lot of combinations we consider "Sure things" to fall by the wayside.

Do we all remember the summer of 2000??? How many short listed horses that traveled to Austrailia and were acclimated had injuries?? TONS.. So even with a "stacked deck" going in, we fell back to only 6 horses sound enough to compete. And even that telling of the tale is under some contention if you talk to enough 'insiders.'

I am rooting for a good team, but I am not gonna predict anyone. Its still too far out and the predicted weather for 2008 could make it mighty interesting. (Drought or heavy rains would blur the picure pretty easily)

~Emily

snoopy
Nov. 27, 2007, 03:05 PM
Do we all remember the summer of 2000??? How many short listed horses that traveled to Austrailia and were acclimated had injuries?? TONS.. So even with a "stacked deck" going in, we fell back to only 6 horses sound enough to compete. And even that telling of the tale is under some contention if you talk to enough 'insiders.'
~Emily



Just HOW long was the stick you poked that hornet's nest with?;)

You made some very good points with the whole of your last post. Lets hope there is not a repeat of the part I included above!!!!:(

Badger
Nov. 27, 2007, 03:53 PM
Do we all remember the summer of 2000??? How many short listed horses that traveled to Austrailia and were acclimated had injuries?? TONS.. So even with a "stacked deck" going in, we fell back to only 6 horses sound enough to compete.

Make that 7 that were ready to compete. Highland Hogan was presented in Sydney and jogged up, ready to go as the alternate if needed.

pwynnnorman
Nov. 27, 2007, 04:29 PM
Ooooo see now we're tempting fate. There is no such thing as a lock. And if you don't buy it, ask Jan Bynny, Bonnie Mosser, Kim S, Umm Bruce, Karen, Abigail Lufkin, Buck and so on.
~Emily

True! That's why I said "most likely." What I was thinking about was how they named the rider's second horse as an alternate for three of the riders who had been headed to the Pan Ams. It's operationally easier, I guess (but, of course, I'm clueless as to whether that even matters to "them" in an Olympic year) to name horses rather than entirely different pairs as alternates (or as joint long-listeds, too, I guess). So Phillip, for example, might be listed with three legimate horses--and he's still Phillip, too, of course--hence his really good odds (unlike the list Emily posted, which weren't folks with quite that many--were they? I mean, most had two, perhaps? Couldn't Phillip and Karen be counted as ("counted as," mind you, NOT "counted on"!) having as many as four--depending on how the spring goes?).

snoopy
Nov. 27, 2007, 04:43 PM
True! That's why I said "most likely." What I was thinking about was how they named the rider's second horse as an alternate for three of the riders who had been headed to the Pan Ams. It's operationally easier, I guess (but, of course, I'm clueless as to whether that even matters to "them" in an Olympic year) to name horses rather than entirely different pairs as alternates (or as joint long-listeds, too, I guess). So Phillip, for example, might be listed with three legimate horses--and he's still Phillip, too, of course--hence his really good odds (unlike the list Emily posted, which weren't folks with quite that many--were they? I mean, most had two, perhaps? Couldn't Phillip and Karen be counted as ("counted as," mind you, NOT "counted on"!) having as many as four--depending on how the spring goes?).




There are some VERY good four star horses out there....one horse wonders for the rider...but because they do not have that back up horse they are often over looked...and some of those horses are FAR FAR better than the back ups of the rider that has four horses "ready to go"...capable of doing the job but NOT with stellar performances.:(

Xctrygirl
Nov. 27, 2007, 06:32 PM
OK I am a bit confused, not hard to do admittedly!!

Pwynn, you mentioned the list I mentioned.

This confuses me. The only "list" of riders I referenced were those who had multiple shots at previous USET squads and then the <bleep> hit the fan.

I made no "list" of current contenders for 2008.

And truly the ones I consider better shots are the ones that will remain off the radar. That's the problem with being an optimist.

Just as an example... a few years back I made up a "current Team selection status page" for the 2004 Olympics...Obviously it was done before the team was chosen.

Have a look:

http://xctrygirl.tripod.com/2004/

The final team was:

Kim, Darren, John, Amy, and Julie

Just as a translation tool, the placing at Rolex, if it has an "M" its from the modified event division. That was essentially a CIC**** if memory serves. But it had a 20 min phase A I believe.

~Emily

pwynnnorman
Nov. 27, 2007, 08:52 PM
I wasn't translating the "list" of riders you mentioned that way either, xctrygirl (so I'm a bit confused now, too!). You'd mentioned "there's no such thing as a lock" and I was agreeing with you, but pointing out that I'd been previously thinking of riders with quite a few *** or **** horses and that the one's you had used as examples of not counting on any "lock" were ones with fewer. It is a bit unusual in this country to have riders with four ***+ horses, after all.

But, that said, and as I said earlier, I do not know at all whether the powers-that-be even think about, say, short-listed riders' back up horses as alternates the way they ended up doing for the Pan Ams. I was only speculating.

That list you made for 2004 is interesting. Gonna do it again this time? That'd be cool.

Xctrygirl
Nov. 28, 2007, 07:11 AM
Yea probably. No promises mind you, but I did enjoy compiling it and seeing who they eventually picked and why.

Sorry I see what you're saying now. (Clarity after 5 hours sleep...Yee Ha!!)

I think as you do that those with more depth of strings (IE more horses) will always have an advantage. But as I pointed out, even that slim advantage can go south in a hurry.

I will of course be rooting for the best squad possible, but moreso I am rooting for all the horses under consideration to hold up sound and sane during what will no doubt be a tough year.

~Emily