Suggestions for a puller

[workinggirl]

Hi All

Just wondering what to use on my draft/tb out on trail, hunter paces etc.. when I am in a group and they get ahead he wants to go to- if I ask him to stay back- even just a little, he pulls- like my arm out of the socket pull. In the ring he is fine, and most of the tme on trail- just don't like him when he pulls me. I am riding him in a slow twist snaffle- open to all suggestions, thanks. I am trying to get him to not be so nervous when left, but he really wants to be with them. He is big, with a nice comfy big canter stride, but the tbs we ride with are sl faster, therefore they get ahead and he want to go!

[TBlitz]

I have the same problem with my guy. We've tried all kinds of snaffles, gags, elevators, and every kind of tough bit imaginable. This past week I put a rubber mullen mouth pelham with 2 reins attached and he has never been better (except when he got pissed that I made him stay at the very back for while). I can keep a nice contact with him and use the curb as a whoa when he needs it. It's much better than looking like I'm mean to my guy by using a harsh bit or needing to use a not so harsh bit and having people frown at how much I'm in his face in order to maintain control. I wanted to slap myself across the face for never trying it before. I've also had success in the past with a double bridle, but I don't have one ATM and didn't want to spend the $ on a new bridle and bits since I'm trying to save up for many other fun things.

It's not a super expensive bit to try if you can't borrow one. I've spent way more on bits that don't work, but this one can be found on Dover for under $30.

[Painted Wings]

Did it look like this?

http://www.bitofbritain.com/PhotoDetails.asp?

That's called a Waterford D Bit

Bit of Britain has them.

[J Swan]

My horse is like that too - and he's the same breeding as yours. I started with a Pelham (with two reins, not a converter).

As he got better I used a Kimberwick - and that is now the primary bit. If you're unsure of the Kimberwick, try buying an Uxeter Kimberwick. It has two slots, one above the other. The slots are not for two sets of reins, but offer different leverage for one rein.

The higher slot acts more like a snaffe, and the lower slot give you more leverage (the bit comes with a curb chain). Or, you can attach the bit the way you would a regular Kimberwick; through the actual ring and not the slots.

gothedistance - I think I know the bit you're talking about but I don't remember the name of it. I think the idea behind it is that the horse can't really grab it like a more traditional bit? Dunno.

[Beverley]

I would also cast a vote for a rubber pelham.

And, with 'any' bit, know how to bridge the reins so that the horse is merely pulling against himself.

My other trade secret for pullers is to periodically take them hunting in really hilly terrain. You can basically chuck the reins going uphill, let the geography be the brakes, and I found for my worst puller that he reminded himself of the lesson- save your energy- and didn't pull for weeks after say, a day at Rappahannock or Old Dominion.:cool:

[LookinSouth]

I used to use a gag -- it worked great, but then my show hunter friend lent me a snaffle bit comprised of what looks like small jointed dumb-bells that she said was an anti-lean bit -- designed for a horse that tends to bear down on the rider's hands. I do like this anti-lean bit better. However, I've never seen another one like it, so I've no idea where you'd go to find one.
.

Yup sounds like a Waterford to me. A very popular bit in H/J land and an effective one might I add. If you have enough brakes in the snaffle but just need something the horse can't grab and run with the waterford is going to be the mildest option. Be sure to get it 1/4 to a 1/2 inch larger than your usual bit size so it drapes on the tongue correctly. Although a slow twist has more stopping power than a waterford IMO the construction of the waterford has alot less to grab.

[workinggirl]

any thoughts on this bit?

[valleyhanov]

I have a big strong warmblood mare that goes fine in a snaffle but when we hunt I use a waterford pelham. She can't lean on it and we also have the extra brakes when we need them. I hunted her in a traditional mullen mouth pelham about 3 times before she figured it out and we were in trouble again. The waterford made a big difference. Pullers are definately no fun. The previous comment was correct though in that you can't give him anything to pull on. If you bridge your reins and deepen your seat he will figure out that it doesn't do any good to pull.

[Painted Wings]

That link didn't work after I posted it.

Here's the link again

http://www.bitofbritain.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=130515%2D130516

[SLW]

Beverley - You have obviously NEVER foxhunted an endurance horse! Girl, the second you let up on the reins galloping uphill, you'd find yourself being galloped out of the county, bar none! :lol: :lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol: They just DON'T get tired, no matter what the terrain! After 4 hours hunting yesterday, every horse left in the field was cooked.... except mine who was as fresh as a daisy, bright eyed and chipper.... and ready to roll for a few more hours. I don't know whether to consider myself lucky... or cursed. :rolleyes:

You'll chuckle at this. Yesterday was our Invitational Hunt and a couple veteran 100 mile eudurance riders I know pretty well joined us. I chatted w/ one at a check and she was laughing. All the start, stop, start, stop caused her steady eddie to toss out a buck, something he has never, ever done in his 10 year career. She said "well, this is perfect for him to learn something new!!". And yeah, her gelding wasn't even warmed up when we called it quits.

[Beverley]

Beverley - You have obviously NEVER foxhunted an endurance horse! Girl, the second you let up on the reins galloping uphill, you'd find yourself being galloped out of the county, bar none! :lol: :lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol: They just DON'T get tired, no matter what the terrain! After 4 hours hunting yesterday, every horse left in the field was cooked.... except mine who was as fresh as a daisy, bright eyed and chipper.... and ready to roll for a few more hours. I don't know whether to consider myself lucky... or cursed. :rolleyes:


Well, duh, I wouldn't hunt one that was THAT fit, I'm not a glutton for punishment!

On the other hand, take that one out with Lynn Lloyd some time, 35 miles up and down 1000 foot ridges over 7 hours might take the edge off!:)

[J Swan]

I have a big strong warmblood mare that goes fine in a snaffle but when we hunt I use a waterford pelham. She can't lean on it and we also have the extra brakes when we need them. I hunted her in a traditional mullen mouth pelham about 3 times before she figured it out and we were in trouble again. The waterford made a big difference. Pullers are definately no fun. The previous comment was correct though in that you can't give him anything to pull on. If you bridge your reins and deepen your seat he will figure out that it doesn't do any good to pull.


I don't think I've ever seen a waterford pelham. Can you post a photo of it? I plan on taking my young horse out roading and maybe cubbing a few times next season - he is built like a mammoth.

[workinggirl]

I do bridge the reins when necessary, but he still tries. And of course, he catches me off guard and give a good yank now and then. I went out yesterday with one other person (and horse of course), rode him in a metal unbroken pelham. We didn't really need it, with just one other horse but he knew something was going on, like what the heck. Definitely got some respect. I also have a kimberwick and a seguda- it would be nice to ride with one set of reins. Any and All thoughts welcomed.

[LookinSouth]

I don't think I've ever seen a waterford pelham. Can you post a photo of it? I plan on taking my young horse out roading and maybe cubbing a few times next season - he is built like a mammoth.

They have it here

www.shop4bits.com

They also have a waterford baucher which could come in handy.

[LookinSouth]

any thoughts on this bit?

I personally think the waterford pelham is going to probably give you plenty of brakes w/o the need for a harsh mouth piece. In addition, the horse definitely won't have anything to hang onto.

[J Swan]

They have it here

www.shop4bits.com (http://www.shop4bits.com)

They also have a waterford baucher which could come in handy.


WOW. They have 7inch bits!!! Yippeeeeeeeeee!!!!!

(I did say the horse was a mammoth) :D

Thanks! I'll bookmark this site for future reference.

[workinggirl]

thanks for the link for shop4bits- great site.

[workinggirl]

Since my guy is a draft/tb cross- he has a shorter, thicker neck. In the ring he will travel low, hunter like or on the bit for dressage work. But on trail he likes to keep that head up and looking, and I just don't like it up like that. I want to keep him low, which if I ask he will- but he wants to look. Should I let him? When riding him in the pelham tonight, it was like he wouldn't go down into it. With a snaffle I can get him to come down into the bridle, but than he can pull me!!!

[workinggirl]

please explain, if you don't mind and have the time- thanks.

[xeroxchick]

I've seen people use the Mikmar with the rope over the nose and a shank on drafties who are a bit thick in the throatlatch. Seems to be quite a contraption but effective.

[TBlitz]

A thing to remember that when using any pelham with a broken mouthpiece (even 1 jointed) is that they will collapse in the horse's mouth so that the curb chain is too loose to work when you want to use the pelham rein. There was a discussion about this on the H/J forum not very long ago.

Also, just curious, I've seen alot of people using the connectors for the pelham so they don't have to worry about the extra rein. I use 2 reins, but would you recommend to do this for hunting? I can see where it would be easier for the rider, but I'm not sure about the signal it would send to the horse.

God, now that I'm back on my fire breathing dragon instead of riding my MFH's 4yo TB that thinks on his first few hunts ever that hes a pro, and hunts 1st field in a rubber snaffle on the buckle (so great, but I can't buy him because I can't hunt 2 horses at once), I've been getting in much better shape. I have to steer with my legs around trees so Blitz doesn't run into them, and actually pull back on the reins. In the fields at a walk I'm constantly telling him "don't embarrass mommy" since he grinds his teeth and praces around and causes staring :rolleyes:

[xeroxchick]

Try the gag. It will encourage him to put his head down.

Interesting. I have always thought the opposite, of gags as lifting them up a bit, and bits with shanks as lowering them.

[joyshorse]

I am not a foxhunter, but a retired hunter/eq rider turned pleasure/trail rider. However, I am becoming interested in hunting since it is the basis of the hunter show world and have been reading some great horsey mysteries by Rita Mae Brown of Virginia. Anyway, I just had some thoughts on your problem- have you ever watched or read any of Clinton Anderson or Chris Cox's training shows/books? Although they ride Western, I have watched them have great success with all manner of English riders - dressage to eventing. The tool I use in training my green colt not to pull on the trail is the one rein stop. Basically you teach the horse lateral flexion on the ground, then under saddle. When the horse pulls, you use one rein to pull their head around to your knee or ankle, wherever is comes on your leg. Once the horse stops and gives, you continue on. The first time I did this with my young horse, I must have one reined him at least 50 times! But he gets better every time we go out. Of course, the trick is to teach this lesson before you get in the excited atmosphere of the hunt field. Let me know if you have tried this or anything like it and what the results were. Thanks for letting me post on the hunting thread. I am learning a lot by reading the posts.

[joyshorse]

Well, in that case, I used to show my JR/AO hunter in a custom bit made by James Shuttleworth, I think his name was. It was a single joint snaffle, slow twist sweet iron barrel with a port. It only took a touch to lift my horse's head. He was fine at home - went in a plain rubber snaffle - but would sometimes get up at the shows. This bit was our ace in the hole to get his attention without getting in his face. The great thing about having a Shuttleworth bit was once you bought one, you could trade it for another at little to no cost. But I have been off the circuit for 10 years so I have no idea where or if they are still available.

[Bensmom]

joyshorse -- they are, but I understand that you need to order one and be prepared to wait, but they are very nice bits.

I also used a waterford on my big QH that pulled and preferred for you to carry his head. In fact, that is such a good suggestion that I may try that out next on my TB that is transitioning from eventing to endurance. Right after I go take four more ibuprofen and sleep for two days after riding him on a training ride today. My arm muscles are going to be so buff after riding this little monster out. :lol:

libby

[Tantivy1]

Anyone know if a link exists for the Shuttleworth bits please?

[workinggirl]

Hi All

thanks for all the replies! Went out yesterday with just one other horse and my horse was a dream. Have to try a group ride again, that's our problem area. Want to go cubbing!

[joyshorse]

This is a link to an article interviewing Jay Shuttleworth:

http://www.centralequine.com/article.aspx?article=17

When I was showing, there were several tack shops that were at most of the East Coast shows and carried quite a selection of Shuttleworth bits. If you bought one from one of those shops, you could then trade for something else, if needed. The two I remember were Judy's and The Equestrian Sho

Here is a shop that came up in my search - http://www.farmhousetack.com/bits.htm that says they have Shuttleworths.

I've never dealt with them but it's worth a call. Let me know what you find out!

[workinggirl]

thanks joyshorse for the links!