Clear photo of a sewn bridle?

[Risk-Averse Rider]

Can anyone point me to a photo of a flat, sewn bridle?

I've been trying to explain to someone the difference between raised & flat tack (and why a raised caveson & noseband would not exactly be likely on a bridle from 1192 ;-) - but the photo of the flat bridle that I found shows one with buckles.

Surely someone here has a "real" hunting bridle? Perhaps for an appointments class?

Thanks.

[J Swan]

Is this more what you are looking for?

[Beverley]

Or these? Copied from another thread...


http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/d...iews/bev14.jpg (http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd89/BevHeff/Hunting%20whip%20views/bev14.jpg)


http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd89/BevHeff/Hunting%20whip%20views/bev6.jpg


These weren't true sewn in bridles if memory serves, they had the studs, but from 'this distance' the look is the same.

[Ray]

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=220168081082&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT&ih=012

I think there are others offered on eBay at the moment, to give an idea

[Painted Wings]

That bridle on ebay is a nice bridle but is not a sewn in one. We've got one at the farm. I'll have to see if I can take some close up photos.

[Xanthoria]

You can take a hook-stud bridle and have your saddler remove the hook-stud and 2 loops on the back of each fastening, then sew the bit in - I've seen that work nicely if the stitching is neat.

Not a photo, but this passage from http://www.oldandsold.com/articles05/horse-4.shtml is interesting:

"In the construction of bridles we find three basic patterns. A few have reins which buckle in, as do the bits. These are ugly, bulky and, worse still, a hopeless chore to keep clean and neat. They are usually found only in cheaper grades or reclaimed military equipment. The majority of bridles on the market are finished with the so called "hook-in stud" for both reins and bits. These have all the advantages of buckles and are far neater in appearance. Dirt and grease will fill in around the attachments, but they can be cleaned with effort. For the utmost in satisfaction I advise that the reins and bits be stitched in permanently. Pick a good bridle and a bit to suit your needs and have your saddler finish them properly. In theory one may wish to keep switching bits in and out of any given bridle, but practically it just doesn't work out that way. It is a good idea to have one old hook-in bridle for such experiments, but for the most part one should do less messing with various bittings and concentrate upon the skill to use any simple pattern which meets requirements. A sewn-in bit has many advantages. It is the mark of the competent workman and is the only type acceptable in the hunting field or show ring. My reason for favoring it, however, is that it is so much easier to keep clean."

"There is one more type of bridle which will be of great use and should be in every owner's stable. It is the simple watering bridle. This useful device consists of a pair of reins and a pair of snaps fastened to an old bit. In the case of a pelham bit two pairs of reins and a curb chain are required. The reins may be stout, well oiled leather or heavy canvas webbing. BV fastening the two snaps to the halter we have a bridle that will serve in emergencies and it will do for hacking on those rainy and muddy days which are so hard on our better bridles and upon the temper of the unfortunate soul who must do his own leather." <- hah!

[tangledweb]

Are sewn in bridles an American invention?

I have never noticed them in the UK or Australia. Which might mean I am not very observant, they used to exist but died out, or that they were only ever American.

[SidesaddleRider]

Are sewn in bridles an American invention?

I have never noticed them in the UK or Australia. Which might mean I am not very observant, they used to exist but died out, or that they were only ever American.

Nope. They were the only way bridles most everyone, but especially for the "hunting set", were made until the later 2/3 of the 20th century when the hooks and buckles came in. Remember, each riding horse had "their" bridle, so there was no need to switch out bits for different horses.

[tangledweb]

The history cannot be that simple. 19th century tack is not something I claim to be an expert on but cavalry of that period certainly had buckles. Ornate bridles are often depicted in detail in contemporary art.

US civil war era equipment patterns are very well known, and all original or reproduction items I have seen have buckles.

Clearly they have gone in and out of fashion over time. Have you actually seen an English bridle with sewn bits in a 19th century catalogue or museum exhibit?

[SidesaddleRider]

Clearly they have gone in and out of fashion over time. Have you actually seen an English bridle with sewn bits in a 19th century catalogue or museum exhibit?

Yes.

[J Swan]

I've seen them.


But I think we may be talking apples and oranges. Really ornate tack would not have been practical for the cavalry - and cavalry tack would, by its very nature, have had to have been easily disassembled, cleaned, replaced, etc. Everything for military use would have to have been designed that way.

The sewn bridle would have been more of an everyday thing. Every horse had its own bridle for use while being ridden. There just wasn't the need for bit changes - though a bit could be changed if necessary.

I'm certainly no expert either. Just throwing out some possibilities.

[Beverley]

Clearly they have gone in and out of fashion over time. Have you actually seen an English bridle with sewn bits in a 19th century catalogue or museum exhibit?

I can't say I've seen one in a museum (have to check my 'Man and the Horse' catalog) but I recently gave my last sewn in bridle away to the barn owner- it was given to me in the late 70s but wasn't more than 10 years old at the time. It had a narrow eggbutt snaffle in it that I hadn't been able to use on any of my horses for years, and the BO had a use for that bit.

[tangledweb]

Clearly they have gone in and out of fashion over time. Have you actually seen an English bridle with sewn bits in a 19th century catalogue or museum exhibit?

Maybe that is not clear. By "English bridle" I mean a bridle made England, not any bridle that is not Western in style.

[Xanthoria]

Nope. They were the only way bridles most everyone, but especially for the "hunting set", were made until the later 2/3 of the 20th century when the hooks and buckles came in. Remember, each riding horse had "their" bridle, so there was no need to switch out bits for different horses.

Per the quote above from 1954: "A few have reins which buckle in, as do the bits. ... They are usually found only in cheaper grades or reclaimed military equipment. The majority of bridles on the market are finished with the so called "hook-in stud" for both reins and bits."

We had a couple of sewn in bridles in use for showing when I was a kid: 1981 (I was 9 and learning to ride) onwards. They were quite uncommon.

[Risk-Averse Rider]

Well, what do you think they would have been doing in 1192?

Probably not little tiny buckles...

[Risk-Averse Rider]

Is this more what you are looking for?That bridle still has buckles on the cheekpieces... would a die-hard sewn bridle not even have had those?

What about the throatlatch? Would that be laced or tied in some way? Or would those bridles not have a throatlatch?

I guess I'm confused about just what was "sewn" about a sewn bridle. Was it only the attachment to the bit?

[Beverley]

I guess I'm confused about just what was "sewn" about a sewn bridle. Was it only the attachment to the bit?

Yes, pretty much, a sewn in bit is what the turnout inspectors would be looking for these days. With double reins on a full bridle, the curb rein in my experience is also sewn together rather than using a buckle. But it makes sense to me that pre-buckle, the snaffle rein would also have been sewn.

[SidesaddleRider]

I guess I'm confused about just what was "sewn" about a sewn bridle. Was it only the attachment to the bit?

On a sewn-in bridle, all parts that attach to the bit are sewn-in, as they have the most stress put on them, ergo, it would be the cheek pieces and reins. Obviously a double bridle would have 8 "parts" sewn-in: 2 sets of cheek pieces and 4 reins. There are still buckles for adjustable parts, such as throatlatch and noseband.

[tangledweb]

Well, what do you think they would have been doing in 1192?

Probably not little tiny buckles...

Why not?

Buckles are certainly not a 20th century invention. Roman clothing and armour used them well before 1192. 12th century Viking graves contain them. There is no reason they could not have been used on horse tack in that period.

But I am not sure what the value is in guessing, or what relevance 12th century tack has to 18th and 19th century hunting tack fashions. I was kind of hoping that somebody had a 19th century Swaine Adeney catalogue to refer to.

[dogchushu]

Well, what do you think they would have been doing in 1192?

Probably not little tiny buckles...

Hmm, Google is failing me. 126 years too early and not nearly enough detail (http://www.bayeuxtapestry.org.uk/bayeux30.htm)

[Alterageous]

I inherited a sewn in Jimmy's bridle from probably the early 1970s, with a sewn in 5" full cheek. Fit my first horse perfectly, and it was such a beautiful, finely made bridle, and I used it. No one at my barn had ever even seen one. I still have it in my closet, I will try to take a picture of it.

I had a similar one made by Jimmy's probably five or six years ago as I MUCH prefer the look of a sewn in bridle. They can be made with finer strap work and sit really nicely on the head. That's up with my current horse right now, and I use it every day. Both my sewn ins are raised, not padded, and the old one is fancy stitched. The new one is not. I'll try to get a good picture of the bit area.

[Rudy]

The history cannot be that simple. 19th century tack is not something I claim to be an expert on but cavalry of that period certainly had buckles. Ornate bridles are often depicted in detail in contemporary art.

US civil war era equipment patterns are very well known, and all original or reproduction items I have seen have buckles.

Clearly they have gone in and out of fashion over time. Have you actually seen an English bridle with sewn bits in a 19th century catalogue or museum exhibit?


If it means anything, I have a reprint of an 1889 horse equipment/tack/etc. catelogue (very interesting book) and not a single one of the bridles are sewn in...all are either normal buckles or the reverse hook.

[Lori]

I have one here that I made for my pony. I much prefer the sewn in look to the hook stud look. No bulk and just clean. It is 10 stitches per inch sewn in with a Myler combo bit.
Hopefully, this link will work.

http://s218.photobucket.com/albums/cc161/tielz/


There are 2 bridles on there. The one without the bit sewn in yet is a flat 1/2" that I made for my old pony. The one with the sewn in myler combo does not have a noseband, but is a flat 3/4" hunting weight bridle for schooling.

[J Swan]

Lori - you made those bridles? They are lovely!


I have a Forbes Hunting Incidents print called The First Day of the Season (featuring a lovely lady riding aside in a beautiful blue habit and bowler). 1885

Other interesting features - all the horses tails are short - not docked - but cut right near the dock. All horses in double bridles.


The bridles are sewn into the bit but the buckles are present as well.

And I have two prints that are from the very early 1800's - French -titled "L'Arrivee De La Course" and "La Course", two jockeys in a flat race beating the crap out of each other (not the horses!) and men on the ground and on horseback cheering them on. All horses are in sewn bridles - the throatlash has a buckle. No nosebands.

And I have a print of Warrenton Hunt from the early 1900's - titled "Gone Away", signed by the artist, Edward Dwight. (if anyone can tell me about that print I'd be grateful). One man is in a tweed cap, another in a bowler, and one in scarlet - I can only see details on his bridle. Sewn with a buckle at the throatlash. (at least it appears sewn).

One of the hounds in that print is a black and tan - does anyone know the breeding of the hounds in that hunt from that date? Guess that's the subject of a different thread...

Edited to add that I didn't intend this post to show off a rather motley and valueless collection of artwork - just pointing out features in those pieces that would have reflected local custom or typical turnout of that period.;)

[Lori]

JSwan - Yes, I handmade the bridles in the photos straight from "scratch", Sedgwick butt leather. I absolutely love to work with leather.

I also love hunting prints! Maybe you can send a photo to the Sporting Library in Middleburg and they can help to share the details on yours?

[AnotherRound]

??

The Romans had buckles and metal fittings on their horse tack. Why do you think 1170 something didn't have Metal (brass/steel/copper?) fittings?

Anyway, here are some helpful websites

History of horse tack: http://ilaria.veltri.tripod.com/tack.html#bridles

12th century metal ornaments used on tack:
http://ilaria.veltri.tripod.com/overviewbards.html#decs

Cast metal pieces riveted on, and slots for joints in bridles (search for "bridle" in this useful document)

http://www.mountedknights.com/conroi/13thCenturyMilitaryHorseEquipment.pdf

Many more sites with 12th century style things to look at; I googled

roman cavalry bridle saddles equipment


Hope these help.;