SPT is going well! [Archive] - Chronicle Forums

flashykatt

Nov. 8, 2007, 10:53 PM

Some of my notes from today's tests:

For the free jumping, Amadeus started out making everyone laugh by insisting on rolling first thing. I have to say, the footing seemed to be irresistable, the majority of the stallions seemed to want to roll. That is, when they weren't sniffing poop and then pooping on top of it. :lol:

Confetti was an impressive jumper, as were Gatsby, Romi Z, and Versache! Two stallions insisted on turning around and jumping through the chute the wrong way --I think both were Ken Borden's and I think it was Romi Z and Rashka (man, can't believe I'm already having trouble remembering--it was only this morning!).

Versache jumped over the yellow Hazard tape that was the end boundary for the jump chute, then started jumping through the chute on his own. When he was stopped, he politely jumped back out of the chute over the side gate. VERY CUTE!

Some notes from the Test Rider Rideability sessions: (I'm only noting my positive comments, lol)

Amadeus--elastic, tracks up, uphill canter
Fuerst Impression--Very nice mover, elastic, uphill. Very impressive horse , no pun intended!
Highlight--Expressive canter, really reaches under himself, nice lengthenings, floaty, big stride. Appeared slightly off?? in beginning but seemed to warm up out of it.
Rapture R--WOW!!! Powerful horse, tracks up, loose, elastic, very round and uphill canter, big swingy walk. Looked easy to ride, very responsive, would almost call him a packer based on his cooperation with test riders.
Richmond--Very elastic, floaty, LOVELY canter, big and uphill, swingy walk.
Saracen--Biggest impression was of a horse that tried to please, tried to do whatever his riders requested. Very cooperative. Nice movement. Powerful.
Vinca--Nice Canter, elastic trot, free shoulder, uphill canter, tracks up.
Wamberto--Little bit hot. Lovely, lovely mover. Expressive canter, swingy, elastic. Very pretty. Sweet temperament.

OK, off to bed, too tired to finish typing. Will add more tomorrow.

HFSH

Nov. 9, 2007, 05:39 PM

Today was a challenge as immediately one of the test riders was hurt and the ambulace came!

Thankfully, she checked out just fine and returned to ride later in the morning! Whew!

The dressage rides were challenging in the morning but as the sun came up the horses saw less shadows and spooks and became more brave. I got some wonderful photos, much better than yesterdays blurry images (better light!).

The afternoon was guest rider jumping. Some not so fun moments but all the horses got through it, some better than others.

I believe a clear leader is emerging but I'll keep my opinions to myself for now ;).

I have to say, the test riders, are an AWESOME bunch of riders. The horses are doing so well, the riders are really talented! Kudos to this year's training team.

Sonesta

Nov. 9, 2007, 06:45 PM

ok, hfsh, you were obviously in your room on the computer while I was drinking wine in the hotel hot tub!

Today was quite exciting and the group of stallions is quite amazing.

There do seem to be (as usual) a couple that appear to be vying for the top couple of spots, but probably not appropriate to jinx them by naming them out loud yet.

Now, off to clean up for the dinner........

HFSH

Nov. 9, 2007, 07:10 PM

Ah so that's why they had the hot tub roped off with CAUTION tape, Sonesta is up to something!

Just kidding

Some photos are up

http://www.flickr.com/photos/hfsh/

buschkn

Nov. 9, 2007, 11:13 PM

I think all the horses are looking really good. I am very impressed with the progress between the midterm and now, I must say. Helmut and his test riders have done a great job. And it was incredible to watch Fred Weber as a guest rider on all the horses. Every single horse improved noticibly with him as the rider, IMO. I am very impressed, and I am hard to impress! :)

Way to go and good luck to everyone!! Sadly I will miss the XC and the announcing of the results. Curious if there are more pics online or a pro website somewehere?? Esp of the free jumping. We liked Romi Z and Versache best in the chute. Like everyone else I have my picks for the top contenders but will keep my lips sealed. :)

risingstarfarm

Nov. 9, 2007, 11:21 PM

Wish I was there!

At any rate.....hugs to Team Gatsby!

I can't wait to see Sonesta's video and hear all of the reports of what sounds to be a wonderful testing!

HFSH

Nov. 9, 2007, 11:42 PM

Bob Tarr is the official photographer. He will NOT have internet proofs available, I asked. He has been great to turn around proofs in just a few hours on all the horses.

Lots of people such as me there with our own little cameras, taking photos.

You should see the photos Bob has of Romi free jumping! :eek::eek::eek:

TwoDreamRides

Nov. 9, 2007, 11:49 PM

Can I ask why the "hugs to Team Gatsby"? Just support, or did something happen? I have a mare in foal to him this year, and two more booked for next year, so I cant help but be curious...

Walnut Farm

Nov. 10, 2007, 07:34 AM

Steph, the photos are really good! great meeting ya all!

I only saw the test riding under dressage riding, but some of my favorites were, (no particular order)
Highlight, (also looked SIGHTLY off to me, but seemed to work out of it, it is Hard on those boys!)
Richmond
Gatsby
Worthy Oponent
Fielding
Rapture R

(not having my program in front of me, there were a few others as well!!)

LInda

avezan

Nov. 10, 2007, 07:42 AM

Can I ask why the "hugs to Team Gatsby"? Just support, or did something happen? I have a mare in foal to him this year, and two more booked for next year, so I cant help but be curious...

Yes, I was wondering the same thing. Is everythign ok with Gatsby? I also have a mare in foal to him. I haven't booked for next year yet, waiting on the results of the test.... :)

talloaks

Nov. 10, 2007, 08:19 AM

Stephanie, your photos are super!!! Really appreciate the ones you identify the stallions though. Glad everyone is having a super time and the horses are all doing well. Good luck to everyone!!:D

buschkn

Nov. 10, 2007, 09:41 AM

I think it is probably just support hugs for Gatsby b/c I saw him the last two days and he looked great, no problems.

risingstarfarm

Nov. 10, 2007, 09:52 AM

Can I ask why the "hugs to Team Gatsby"? Just support, or did something happen? I have a mare in foal to him this year, and two more booked for next year, so I cant help but be curious...

OH - sorry for the scare.

Just support! I'm a big Gatsby fan!

luv4sporthorses

Nov. 10, 2007, 10:18 AM

So many of us are living through all of you....snapping pictures and writing about the horses. My favorite based on pedigree and his all around capability is Versache. How is he doing? I met him a year and a half ago in the PAC NW. I watched him grow up at breed shows and I think he is fabulous! I will buy a mare just to breed to him....how is he holding up? Thanks for keeping this thread up all.

YankeeLawyer

Nov. 10, 2007, 12:32 PM

hfsh -- thanks for sharing the super photos! It looks like a lovely group of stallions!

Sassenach

Nov. 10, 2007, 01:14 PM

Fingers crossed for Wildwych Eclipse. I've always loved him.

Go (Connemara) Pony Go!

neVar

Nov. 10, 2007, 01:59 PM

well here i am thinking jeese i lreally like that Valient- then i saw the "by iroko" no wonder! (we've got an iroko at my barn that i'm in loff with - now he just needs to grow 4 inches)

Sonesta

Nov. 10, 2007, 05:10 PM

posting from cell phone so short and no caps.....

all done. horses looked great x-country...

worthy opponent had some heat in leg this am. vet gave owner option to continue and she did right thing and kept him out of x-country. he will take average of all stallions on that phase. sad cause he's a x-country machine

romi did not compete in x-country because back sore. he is 30 day test stallion of Ken's

gorgeous weather. great riders. lovely horses.

owners bit nails to quicks but all seemed in good mood at end - even Ken and Dana (worthy opponent owner) horses come first.

GREAT testing! some excitement too in dressage phase and jumping phase. in dressage, stallion spooked and fell with rider. rider and horse fine but scary. in jumping the famous Rudy Leone took spill on first ride and got a bit hurt but continued to ride. the aches DID negatively affect his next few rides, but he was back in gear later.

more later..................

HFSH

Nov. 10, 2007, 05:18 PM

A good day today, no one was hurt, horses went well. 2 pulled, which was smart, better safe than sorry!

I have hundreds more photos to go through, will post some throughout the night http://www.flickr.com/photos/hfsh/

flashykatt

Nov. 10, 2007, 06:04 PM

ok, more reporting:

So for the rest of day 1 dressage test riders:

Worthy Opponent looked cooperative with all 3 riders. I noticed Fred Weber grinning and patting his neck and saying, "Good Boy!" Worthy Opponent looked elastic and had nice lengthenings and an uphill canter.

Special note about Fred Weber--I think every EVERY single person there now wants to marry Fred!! What a rider--not saying that the other 2 riders were bad but Fred wowed everyone. He seemed like he really enjoyed all the test riding, and got along with every single stallion there.

Rashka--very loose shoulder, big stride.
Versache--another Wow stallion. I really liked him all around.

Day 2: Dressage presentation and Basic Gaits, and Jumping by test riders.
(Although I took millions of notes it's getting hard to remember details. Gee, you see 20 stallions 2 times a day for 2 days then once the 3rd day, that's like a hundred different stallion reports to remember!

Valiant SF was worried about the dressage arena (maybe the tons of spectators or? There was a LOT of anxiety in the air and all the stallions seemed sorta wired that day). Imparable, who was considered one of the most even tempered and quietest finally was used to give him a lead and go in the arena with him. Valiant is one of the prettiest stallions there, with a flaxen mane and lotsa chrome. I did not get to see him go unfortunately, we were getting the camera, etc.

Then Worthy Opponent started in, he was concerned about the videographer and spooked, then somehow lost his footing and sloooowly fell to the ground on his side. It looked like a No Big Deal spill for the rider, but apparently she WHACKED her head hard and was knocked out. So we had an unconscious rider and a loose stallion--luckily within a minute WO was in hand and Alexa was awake. She was sent to the hospital as a precaution--but came back and Insisted! on riding later that day and planned to ride in thecross country. Brave girl!

So that was the big excitement for the day. It kind of put things into perspective though. Also kind of put a scare into everyone!

Helmut stepped up to the plate and ended up riding almost all the stallions that Alexa was supposed to ride.

So here's what I have on the dressage tests:

Worthy Opponent started out kind of above the bit, but showed pure gaits. He had a nice lengthening (nice, swinging, toe-pointing trot!). He really steps far underneath himself in all three gaits, looked elastic, and he was one of the ones who really loved the hand gallop part! :D In the jumping test rider portion, he was very cooperative with both riders. He jumped everything that he was asked to.

Amadeus started out kind of stiff but he was another with a lovely hand gallop, big and round! He showed scope for the jumping.

Bravo was the youngest stallion there. He had some moments of absolute lovely movement, but seemed to argue with his rider somewhat. I did catch some of the lovely moments in pictures, so they are definately there! He was also one of the few that Rudy Leone asked to raise the fences for.

Confetti is just frickin' adorable. Little round bouncing bean! That boy can JUMP (my notes have JUMP underlined like 3 times!)

Fielding has nice lengthenings, a big walk and a great gallop. He looked like had scope in the jumping and was another who was very cooperative.

flashykatt

Nov. 10, 2007, 06:29 PM

Whoops, hit SENT too soon.

Fuerst Impression--missed his dressage, he was a powerful and obediant jumper. The test riders asked for his jumps to be raised. My notes say, "good Boy!"

Gatsby--a calm, happy boy, and Nice Horse. Gatsby also can jump!

Highlight--Nice reach, not a loose stride but a good big walk. Round canter, NICE gallop, big trot lengthenings. Did not have a lot of scope for jumping, (not surprising with his bloodlines, and I'm sure his owners have no intention of jumping him!), but he was very obediant, and jumped willingly, VERY willingly. Good Boy :)

OK, off to eat dinner, more later!

BSquared07

Nov. 10, 2007, 07:15 PM

As an objective observer of the process (meaning, having observed segments of the full hundred days as opposed to just the weekend test), I must disagree with one of the above posts regarding the stallion, Saracen, solely to cite one example only. This horse has been vitriolic and unmanageable for approximately 97 of the hundred days, and so I don't necessarily find it fair to be posting generalities about these stallions. Please don't misunderstand, Saracen has had a wonderful weekend and I have nothing whatsoever against him; I would just like to caution people against wholeheartedly supporting or opposing any horse based on what amounts to 3% of the total evaluation process. Some have been consistently doing their jobs with pleasant dispositions and have continued in that vein in the last 3 days, while others have just seemed to hit their stride during this last segment. Still others are simply ending as they began: somewhere in the middle. In my personal opinion, for whatever it's worth now that my comments may have upset people, my all around favorites of the hundred days are Confetti, Richmond, Fielding, and Vinca. I think Worthy Opponent is a nice horse, as is Fuerst Impression. Of the thirty day guys, I love the sweet and willing attitude of Rashka. Again, it is a HUNDRED day process for a reason, and I'd hate to see any potential breeder base his or her selection solely upon whatever he or she may have seen in the last 3 days.

HFSH

Nov. 10, 2007, 07:39 PM

I agree you cannot hold the horses to the final 3 days of testing. The two short test stallions Valient and Romi did not present themselves well. What most didn't realize with those two are that Valient has a horrific cut in his mouth, and Romi has just come off of a week of stall rest from an injury. Both had bad final testing days.

Let's just let the results be announced tomorrow. :winkgrin:

buschkn

Nov. 10, 2007, 08:03 PM

I would just like to caution people against wholeheartedly supporting or opposing any horse based on what amounts to 3% of the total evaluation process.

I agree with the general sentiment that the horses are being judged on 100 days, not 3. However, it does actually count for 50% even if it is only 3% of the time involved. And some horses will shine in this part while others won't. Just the way it goes, unfortunately.

As for my favorites, the SO and I like Rapture R and Wamberto, and have also liked Furst Impression and Worthy Opponent since the midterm. I also want to say how SUPER they all looked this weekend, and how much progress they have all made since the midterm. Fielding looked super, and I was very impressed with Bravo's progress considering his first 40 days were spent being ill. Congrats to all the SOs!

YankeeLawyer

Nov. 10, 2007, 08:16 PM

BSquared07

Nov. 10, 2007, 11:23 PM

Not trying to "trash" any stallion by name necessarily, but understand that by listing each stallion's identity and giving us a blow-by-blow accounting of his specific, daily performance, the forum is opened for further comment if someone has a different perspective on an already-mentioned-by-name stallion. While it would be nice if every horse were stellar in every way, it just isn't realistic, and to withhold some vital truths for the sake of politics is downright shameful. My understanding is that this forum should be as factual and objective as possible, and as a potential breeder, I am interested solely in the facts. I certainly don't want anyone to feel bad about his or her stallion, but as in any academic pursuit, not every student gets to be valedictorian of the class. Doesn't make the other kids any less important or invalidate their existence as lovely individuals, it just means they didn't get the 4.0...

PineTreeFarm

Nov. 11, 2007, 12:18 AM

pbjdressage

Nov. 11, 2007, 09:55 AM

I attended the dressage testing on Friday and overall was very impressed with the process and how "normal" the stallions were treated. It was quite refreshing.

Looking forward to the results.

Pinto WB

Nov. 11, 2007, 10:02 AM

Anyone know how Sir Wannabi is doing? I am curious, as he is from my area! thanks

Fairview Horse Center

Nov. 11, 2007, 10:13 AM

I just wanted to point out that the stallion with the training issues for 97 days that has had a wonderful last 3 days - could be that he has finally found a different quality of rider(s) in the last 3 days that has allowed him to shine.

Kyzteke

Nov. 11, 2007, 10:40 AM

Can we avoid trashing any particular stallion by name? Is it possible to just make the general point that a horse's performance in 3 days may differ, for better or worse, than the performance over the course of the preceding 97 days? I think it is rather mean to trash anyone's horse, particularly while judging is still ongoing, and really unnecessary.

I agree that it is so important to get an unbiased report on these stallions. You are not going to get it from the SO, because I've interviewed literally 100's of SOs and never yet had one say a bad thing about their boy -- to hear them talk everyone of the stallions can be handled by a 5 yr. old.

Obviously this is not realistic or true.

And, since so many of us stuck in the hinderlands are breeding based on a video, pedigree and input from forums like COTH, it IS important to hear a variety of opinions/reports.

There are alot of reasons a horse could have a rocky start in the first 97 days and a smart horseperson will realize this. Frankly, the poster who said the stallion was "arguing" "every day" then went on and said she was only there "in segments" amde me think," well, unless she WAS observing this stallion EVERY DAY for 97 days, she really can't say he was a problem EVERY day."

Also, a smart breeder may just realize that not every horse is "born broke" (most aren't), that the quality of the rider/trainer makes a big difference to many (most) horses, that sometimes the most difficult horses turn out to be the best and most brilliant performers (Rembrandt comes to mind). Depending on the breeder's particular goals, she/he may feel that stallion is the PERFECT choice to improve on a rather talented but dead-headed (ok -- let's call her "unambitious") mare.

Personally, I HATE that some people think we should be spoon-fed positive pap because someone doesn't feel we are smart enough to use critical thinking skills.

A test is supposed to separate the wheat from the chaff -- someone has to win and someone has to lose. That's life. It's not a kid's birthday party where everyone "wins."

Still, a savvy breeder will realize that this test is only a portion of the information we need to critique a stallion. The records are littered with Test winners who proved to be a bust as producers.

Gatsby, for instance seems to be doing really well. But, personally, I would expect him to do MUCH better than the others, because he's twice as old. Behavior and even athletic performance that I might overlook from a 3yr.old I would frown on from a 6 yr. old.

So let the comments continue -- as long as they are honestly presented, with no hidden agenda and can be validated by others.

These reports are gold for many of us breeders who cannot attend the Test -- and I thank all the people who are sharing this info with us!

YankeeLawyer

Nov. 11, 2007, 12:10 PM

So let the comments continue -- as long as they are honestly presented, with no hidden agenda and can be validated by others.

And how is it that the one poster who comes here -- with a brand new alias, I might add -- is to be viewed necessarily as an "unbiased" and "objective" source of "facts" and free of a "hidden agenda." I have to wonder who would be attending 100 out of 100 days of a test that is only, as the poster claims, a "potential breeder."

And by the way, the other posters who reported positive comments are not the stallion owners, either, and there was nothing to suggest that their comments were not objective. The comments may or may not have been based on a snapshot of the entire testing process, and it may be worth pointing out that the last 3 days' performance is not necessarily indicative of what preceded it, but I see no reason to single out a horse to make that point. It is also possible to offer constructive criticism without being downright nasty which, imo, the post in question was.

Black Forest

Nov. 11, 2007, 12:39 PM

It's really difficult and I can see the point of the person who pointed out that someone has joined the forum or created a new user name to criticize one particular stallion does make me think as well.

Having said that OF COURSE a balanced picture would be great - which includes the not so great along with the great.

BUT it is worth remembering 2 points - a stallion who was behaving as badly as the poster in question was indicating would not pass the test anyway regardless of how nicely he goes the last three days - so it would be irrelevant to the average breeder as the stallion would be off the list of possible choices. There are enough individual marks that are concerned with the interior of the horse to knock one that truly is unmanagable and "vitriolic" out of the equation - in fact usually a stallion with behavior of that nature would be sent home after a "giving the benefit of the doubt" period of no more than 20 days or so.

However, I am used to test riders who know the difference between a stallion who is badly behaved because that is what he is like by nature, and one who simply did not enjoy the kind of upbringing that makes a young stallion a nice guy to be around, and one that is simply highly strung and nervy.

Now a horse that came uneducated and lacking in manners but who has adapted, learned to behave and be a good guy by the end of it would be one that has shown an ability to learn and learn to perform - so that would reflect positively on him rather than negatively, as the whole thing is also to be seen as training and tests how they react to being trained, so a transformation from criminal to good guy would, if nothing else, show considerable trainability......

Without more info and more voices from others who have also observed the young stallions over the 100 day period from time to time I'd neither dismiss the comments about one in particular nor give them too much credence without knowing where they come from or what others thought of the matter

Clear Blue

Nov. 11, 2007, 12:58 PM

I just received a brief phone call from Kate (Fielding's owner). He made the top five with (I think) a score of 125 pts. It is great to see a US bred stack up so well against the imports. Huge congratulations!!!

Wamberto won with an insanely high score. Worthy Opponent made the top five as well.

I hope everyone has a safe trip home.

YankeeLawyer

Nov. 11, 2007, 01:02 PM

STF

Nov. 11, 2007, 01:14 PM

Congrats to KATE!!!
The pics of the dressage rider riding Fielding were super!!! Man when he matures he is gona have one heck of a trot if he has that nice of a trot now!!!!
Congrats!!!

molliwog

Nov. 11, 2007, 01:19 PM

Are the resultes going to be posted on an official website somewhere? Can someone post the link to that? (Sorry if this info is elsewhere- I looked and couldn't find it!)

Maybe someonecould post the top 5 placings for those of us that are impatient to know the results! LOL!!!!!

And kudos to ALL of the stallion owners who participated. As a mare owner, I appreciate your willingness to support this process!

Hillside H Ranch

Nov. 11, 2007, 01:56 PM

I'm dying to hear about the final results, too!
Big congrats to all the stallion owners for having the courage to put your boys to the test. We mare owners appreciate that. Please, all have a safe trip home.

Oakstable

Nov. 11, 2007, 01:57 PM

Did any stallions go to the testing without being under saddle first?

Black Forest

Nov. 11, 2007, 02:14 PM

Did any stallions go to the testing without being under saddle first?

I doubt it very much - In Germany you could not send one unbacked - when you deliver your stallion to the testing station you have to present your stallion (or have a rider of your choice and whom you bring along present him) under saddle and they reserve the right to send you (and your stallion) home if they don't like what they see.

In the guidelines I have here it suggests that 6 to 8 weeks under saddle should be enough but most will have had a bit more. They expect the stallion to be working on the aids in walk trot and canter and pop a small fence at 80 / 90 cm or so at the start of the test (that would be the 70 day test - as there is no under saddle jumping as part of the 30 day test that won't be needed for this)

Now we have a 30 and a 70 day tests you can send your stallion for his 30 day test late in his 3 year old year ( like October or November) and then for the 70 day test when he is 4 - hence removing the need to push them under saddle around or even before their 3rd birthday. I always thought the 100 day test was a lot to ask of a 3 year old.

Obviously it's different as in Germany we have numerous 30 and 70 day tests every year so there is so much more choice when and where to take him - like I would try and get a late one just to give the stallion as much time to mature as possible

crestline

Nov. 11, 2007, 02:41 PM

Apparently everyone is too busy drinking wine and partying...cmon guys...those of us that had to head home need someone to get on their crackberry and post some scores...:)

Edgar

Nov. 11, 2007, 02:56 PM

Results will be available soon here:
http://www.hanoverian.org/Stallions/TestResults/2007.shtml

Clarion

Nov. 11, 2007, 03:07 PM

WooHoo!!! Congratulations Kate!!!! YEAH Fielding!!!

A big congratulations to Wamberto!!

I really can't wait to hear all the results!

Home Again Farm

Nov. 11, 2007, 03:25 PM

Very special congrats to Kate and her boy Fielding!!! :D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D

Congrats to all concerned on what sounds like a great testing! :D:D:D:D:D

Edgar

Nov. 11, 2007, 03:26 PM

Here you go:
1) Wamberto (Dutch). 158.78
2) Worthy Opponent (Hannoverian). 135.52
3) Rapture R (Hanoverian) 133.53
4) Confetti (Rheinlander). 128.77
5) Fielding (Hanoverian). 125.31
6) Furst Impression (Hanoverian). 122.23
7) Richmond HL (Hanoverian). 119.69
8) Saracen (Oldenburg). 118.83
9) Sir Wanabi (Hanoverian). 117.25
10) Highight (Hanoverian). 115.20
11) Vinca (Dutch). 111.30
12) Bravo (Oldenburg). 101.06
13) Amadeus (Oldenburg). 94.11
14) Imparable (Oldenburg). 91.28
15) Gatsby (Oldenburg). 86.19
16) Reuben SF (Oldenburg). 85.22

patch work farm

Nov. 11, 2007, 03:28 PM

Congratulations, hey Kate, that was more than worth the 2 hours we spent on the phone last weekend and to think you were worried!!! I would say he better'd that 90 by a lot, CONGRATULATIONS!!!! Now you get to deal with us mare owners...scary!!

Hope you got the message I sent by way of Dennis yesterday! (To have Pat keep the booze flowing for you!)

spacely

Nov. 11, 2007, 03:34 PM

Congrats to all!!

Rainbow Farm Unltd.

Nov. 11, 2007, 03:44 PM

Thanks, Edgar.

Just got word from the owner on Ponies-L that Wildwych Eclipse passed. He is the first American bred Connemara pony to ever do so.

Walnut Farm

Nov. 11, 2007, 03:48 PM

congrats to all!!! wow, only 2 and still so close! I am sure lot of drinking going on ;)

Linda

grayfox

Nov. 11, 2007, 03:56 PM

Congrats to everyone! What is the lowest score and still passing?

CathyKb

Nov. 11, 2007, 04:13 PM

Big Congrats!!!!!:):):)

Black Forest

Nov. 11, 2007, 04:19 PM

Congrats to everyone! What is the lowest score and still passing?

I agree - CONGRATS to everyone involved!

As far as "passing" is concerned it depends on the Verband - some require a different score for "outside" stallions than their own for example, usually though 80 is accepted, some require 90 for outside stallions and 80 for their own. Oldenburg ask for 80, Trakehners require 90 - Hannoverian request 90 for their own and Hessen, 110 to 120 from Trakehner and Holsteiners (for Stallion Book 1 Hannoverian)- there is no "overall" pass / fail as such

As a side-note - a stallion who was "unmanagable" and "vitriolic" for 97 days would NEVER feature that highly so I am now taking those comments with a pinch of salt.......

Oakstable

Nov. 11, 2007, 04:23 PM

2007 Stallion Test – Enrolled Stallions:

Stallions listed in red italics have been provisionally licensed by the AHS.

Amadeus/Oldenburg
Argosy-Raja’s Ebony xx, by Rajamon xx
Foaled 5/20/00
Owner/Breeder: Paula Brito, Utah

Bravo/Oldenburg
Bugatti Hilltop-Gauguin’s Idea, by Gauguin de Lully
Foaled 5/24/04
Owner: Chris Misita, California
Breeder: Evelyn Morley, Oregon

Confetti/Rheinland
Conteur-SPS Florenz/Feuerfunke xx
Foaled 2/23/04
Owner: Beth Vanderploeg and Dimitriy Kokoshkin, Michigan
Breeder: Leonie and Georg Kellerwessel, Germany

Fielding/Hanoverian
Fred Astair-Lesley/Lessing
Foaled 3/13/04
Owner/Breeder: Kate Palmquist, Virginia

Fuerst Impression/Hanoverian
Fuerst Heinrich-Roxana/Regazzoni
Foaled 3/17/03
Owner: Angela Barilar, Maryland
Breeder: Lueder Koepke, Germany

Gatsby/Oldenburg
Gonzo I-Kalua Song xx/Seattle Song xx
Foaled 2/13/99
Owners: Bill and Lori Wilton, Oregon
Breeder: Gumz Farms, Indiana

Highlight/Hanoverian
His Highness-Lauria/Lauries Crusador xx
Foaled 2/1/04
Owner: Oak Hill Ranch, Louisiana
Breeder: Hans-Henning Decken, Germany

Imparable/Oldenburg
Impresario-Pizzaz/Parabol
Foaled 4/26/04
Owner: Sara Patterson, Idaho
Breeder: Performance Plus Sporthorses, Idaho

Rapture R/Hanoverian
Rotspon-EM Damaris/Donnerhall
Foaled 1/31/01
Owner: Ken and Roberta Falk, Virginia
Breeder: Joachim Tobaben, Germany

Reuben SF/Oldenburg
Regazzoni-Tequini/Frohwind
Foaled 2004
Breeder/Owner: Jane Sommers, California

Richmond H. L./Hanoverian
Rotspon-Davinia/Davignon
Foaled 4/4/04
Owner/Breeder: Lucile Mulky Broadley, North Carolina

Saracen/Oldenburg
Scimitar-Damoiselle/Davignport
Foaled 4/5/02
Owner/Breeder: Michael and Jean Bitely, West Virginia

Sir Wanabi/Hanoverian
Santori-Lily Germaine/Lortzing
Foaled 2002
Owner: Sandra Laprise, Ontario
Breeder: Royal Canadian Mounted Police

Vinca/NAWPN
Metall-Perennial/Idocus
Foaled 5/12/02
Owner: Virginia Parker and Virginia Craley, Pennsylvania
Breeder: Parker and Virginia Craley, Maryland

Wamberto/KWPN
Rousseau-Olinda, by Voltaire
Foaled 5/20/03
Owner: Harmony Sporthorses, Colorado
Breeder: L. Heida, Netherlands

Worthy Opponent/Hanoverian
Waikiki-Hoheit/Hohenstein
Foaled 3/2/03
Owner: Dana Estes, California
Breeder: Horst and Jeannine Peterson, Germany

Oakstable

Nov. 11, 2007, 04:33 PM

What about the stallions doing the 30 days?

STF

Nov. 11, 2007, 05:09 PM

Congrats to Wambuerto!!! Im a huge Waikiki fan!

sid

Nov. 11, 2007, 05:28 PM

Congratulations to all the owners of these fine stallions. I'm sure it's a relief to have this behind you now.

As a stallion owner, I want to extend a heartfelt thanks for the efforts made by all in the breeding community, both owners and the testing administrators, for what feels like a "new beginning" in restoring confidence in the American 100DT and making it a venue that we should and can be proud of.

Well done, all!!

YankeeLawyer

Nov. 11, 2007, 05:42 PM

Congrats to Wambuerto!!! Im a huge Waikiki fan!

Wamberto is by Rousseau (out of a Voltaire mare), but Worthy Opoponent is by Waikiki and out of a Hohenstein mare.

Does anyone know if there will be a video of the final test available for sale?

RTBSH

Nov. 11, 2007, 05:50 PM

Congrats to Wamberto. And a big toast to everyone who participate (I liked the photo of Sonesta having a glass of wine on the X-counrty course ;) )

edited to add a link:

http://www.eurodressage.com/news/breeding/kwpn/2006/stallic.html

misita

Nov. 11, 2007, 06:20 PM

What about the stallions doing the 30 days?

Ken Borden jr.'s stallion Rashka won the 30 day with a smashing 164.86.
Dressage index of 175.34 and jumping index 153.80. His other two stallions, Romi and Valiant, both had injuries which prevented them from performing at their best. Both of these stallions were absolutely stunning!

Versache was 2nd with 123.23. Dressage, 127.73 & jumping 127.53. An absolutely lovely horse.

Most notable to me was the sincere well wishing from SO's to one another. There was a wonderful since of camraderie and support from all. All the training staff was very skilled and worked to their utmost to make each and every one of these horses their very best.

The entire testing was a complete success. All the 100 day stallions passed and each did earn that right of passage.

Helmut Schrant did a smashing job with my Bravo. I would trust him again, if I were to ever send another stallion.

Congratulations to all the SO's
!!! It was a priviledge to participate with you all in the 2007 100 day.

www.hiddenvalleyfarms.net

RedMare01

Nov. 11, 2007, 06:26 PM

Congrats to all the stallions and owners! Glad it worked out well.

Caitlin

Oakstable

Nov. 11, 2007, 06:29 PM

Did Romi and Valiant get passing scores?

misita

Nov. 11, 2007, 07:01 PM

I don't think so. I don't know the rules of the 30 day and I don't know which registry he needed scores for. The scores were quite low. I don't have them with me now. These were very nice horses but sadly both had significant injuries. I've heard a severe mouth injury to Valiant and stifle injury on Romi. This is second hand information.

www.hiddenvalleyfarms.net

Clarion

Nov. 11, 2007, 07:19 PM

Congrats to all the stallions and their owners! Well done!:yes:

RodeoQueen

Nov. 11, 2007, 07:22 PM

Thank you for posting such great photos and thanks for everyone's comments on what they saw! For those of us unable to attend it was great. Congrats to all of the Boys and their owners!

Sassenach

Nov. 11, 2007, 07:24 PM

Thanks, Edgar.

Just got word from the owner on Ponies-L that Wildwych Eclipse passed. He is the first American bred Connemara pony to ever do so.

YAY Eclipse!!!! :D:D:D:D:D

Go Connemaras!

STF

Nov. 11, 2007, 07:58 PM

Wamberto is by Rousseau (out of a Voltaire mare), but Worthy Opoponent is by Waikiki and out of a Hohenstein mare.

Does anyone know if there will be a video of the final test available for sale?

Opps! I thought he was the Waikiki son. Either way, super mover!

Rebecca Pennington (Sonesta Farms) will have the video for sale. Give her a few months to get back from Cini and get over her hang over..... :lol: to do the video. Just check her website, she will let everyone know when its ready.

YankeeLawyer

Nov. 11, 2007, 07:59 PM

Opps! I thought he was the Waikiki son. Either way, super mover!

Rebecca Pennington (Sonesta Farms) will have the video for sale. Give her a few months to get back from Cini and get over her hang over..... :lol: to do the video. Just check her website, she will let everyone know when its ready.

Great, thanks!!!!

Sonesta

Nov. 11, 2007, 08:05 PM

I'm back and I'll have you know I behaved myself completely. First I get the DVDs done for the stallion owners and then I start on the DVD of the entire testing.

WONDERFUL stallions this year! Just incredible.

After some sleep I may post impression from "through the lens."

buschkn

Nov. 11, 2007, 08:09 PM

I think Sonesta's website for ordering info is www.maneevents.com which she announced at the 100DT. It will be $55 for a DVD of the entire event and she said she thought she'd have them by Xmas. She is going to do the SOs first. Just repeating what she announced, IIRC.

Also, HUGE CONGRATS to everyone!! Esp Kate/Fielding as she was worried and such a proud mama. I also re-iterate how impressed I was with Bravo's progress from midterm to final.

I really liked Rashka a lot, but those scores are unreal! Super job to all...

goodpony

Nov. 11, 2007, 08:14 PM

Thanks you guys for mentioning Eclipse...he did pass and was totally awesome! Max and I really enjoyed meeting all involved with making the testing such an amazing and valuable tool in the selection process. We really enjoyed meeting our European guests who had very high praise for our Connemara Pony (thank you to my German speaking husband!). Eclipse earned his highest marks for all the things that are so important to me as a pony breeder: Character, Temperment, Rideability and Willingness to Work (9, 8,8,8). The best news of all is E is really stamping his babies with his own special qualities....I am so excited to see what next season brings. What a valuable learning experience!!! Max and I hope to be back in 2009 with homebred Pony stallion R. Cracker Jack.

Redbud Ranch (http://www.goodpony.net)
Connemara Sport Horses & Ponies
Home of Wildwych Eclipse :)

clint

Nov. 11, 2007, 08:38 PM

My congratulations to all the stallions and their owners.:D This seems to have been an outstanding group, and I'm looking forward to seeing Sonesta's dvd.

nsm

Nov. 11, 2007, 09:22 PM

Congrats to all the stallions and their owners, wish I could of been there--

Nancy

DownYonder

Nov. 12, 2007, 06:09 AM

Congrats to all! Glad to hear that things went so well for most of the boys!

HFSH

Nov. 12, 2007, 07:24 AM

I've heard a severe mouth injury to Valiant and stifle injury on Romi. This is second hand information.

This is correcgt. Valiant has a very very bad cut through half his mouth - the vet said it will take a few weeks to heal properly. Romi had been on 6 days stall rest just before the final testing days, due to a stifle injury, and it appeared again in the final days. Ken chose not to do the XC because the horse just was not right the previous day.

I would like to say that the horses were all turned out beautifully, presented spectacularly, and I was very impressed.

Molly Malone

Nov. 12, 2007, 08:40 AM

Quick question from the back for Goodpony:cool:

Why did you send your stallion to the testing? Do Connemaras have to be tested for their registry? Or did you want independent input as to his worthiness? Or were you getting him approved for another registry (say Weiser Ems or something)?

And congratulations on him passing!

DownYonder

Nov. 12, 2007, 09:01 AM

So Wamberto topped the previous 100DT high score record (155.87) which was set by Galeno Tyme at the 2004 test. Congrats to this horse and all his connections!

Was Rapture R the highest scoring N.A. bred stallion at the 100DT? Huge congrats to his connections also!

ise@ssl

Nov. 12, 2007, 09:12 AM

Eclipse certainly deserved his scores - he was in the bridle, over the back, a complete tick-tock-clock for rhythm, honest to the fences and knew his job. A standout for a pony breeding stallion!! And this little man could "book" cross country! woo hoo

Actually Rapture R is registered Hanoverian.

The highest score registered Oldenburg NA horse was Rashka in the 30 Day group and Bravo was the highest in the 100 Day group.

DownYonder

Nov. 12, 2007, 09:18 AM

[QUOTE=ise@ssl;2797389]Actually Rapture R is registered Hanoverian./QUOTE]

Read my question again. It doesn't say anything about registry.

My question stands - "Was Rapture R the highest scoring N.A. bred stallion at the 100DT?" Or was he bred in Germany?

HFSH

Nov. 12, 2007, 09:19 AM

I'm back and I'll have you know I behaved myself completely.

You did NOT!!! Liar!

I saw the bottles that housekeeping was taking out of the rooms you guys were in!!

:lol::lol::lol::lol:

HFSH

Nov. 12, 2007, 09:20 AM

My question stands - "Was Rapture R the highest scoring N.A. bred stallion at the 100DT?" Or was he bred in Germany?

No. He was a German Horse.

The highest scoring NA-bred stallion was RASHKA.

DownYonder

Nov. 12, 2007, 09:29 AM

No. He was a German Horse.

The highest scoring NA-bred stallion was RASHKA.

I am trying to find out who was the highest scoring N.A.-bred stallion at the 100DT. Rashka only did a 30DT.

Weren't Wamberto, Worthy Opponent, and Confetti all bred in Europe? So if Rapture was also, then was Fielding the highest scoring N.A.-bred stallion at the 100DT?

ise@ssl

Nov. 12, 2007, 09:30 AM

DownYonder

Nov. 12, 2007, 09:33 AM

Really? Were Fielding and Saracen bred in Germany?

clint

Nov. 12, 2007, 09:37 AM

I thought that Kate bred Fielding.

HFSH

Nov. 12, 2007, 09:43 AM

Yes, Kate bred Fielding. Saracen was bred here too I believe.

DownYonder

Nov. 12, 2007, 09:44 AM

I stated that above - it was Bravo.
Fielding is registered Hanoverian. In fact he won the cooler from the AHS as the highest scoring US bred HANOVERIAN.

Chris - if you want the list of who the stallions were REGISTERED with according to information provided by the owners - I can provide that from the program. There was also information in the program as to who they were approved with at the time the program went to press. Many were inspected at the final testing by ISR/OLDNA and AHS. Some stallion owners indicated in their program comments that the stallions would be presented to other registries after the testing.

The GOV did show up one day un-announced but only wanted to watch the stallions walked from the barns to the arena. The training director asked if they wanted to see them trotted or free jumped but Holly said "no". There were no other registries inspecting as far as I know.

Ilona - I did not ask who the stallions were registered with. Once more - read my question again, and read it for comprehension this time.

Who was the highest scoring N.A.-bred stallion at the 100DT?

That means, the top scoring stallion that did the FULL 100 days, and that was BRED IN THE U.S. or CANADA. If it was Bravo, then fine. I don't care, I just want to know!

And please don't start that stuff again about the Oldenburg inspectors showing up unannounced. As stated before, Helmut was well aware in advance they were coming. And they did more than watch them walk from the barn to the arena. If that is what Helmut told you, then I guess he is trying to cover his a** for cooperating with Oldenburg in this matter.

ise@ssl

Nov. 12, 2007, 09:44 AM

66% of the stallions were North American bred:
Amadeus, Bravo, Fielding, Gatsby, Imparable, Reuben SF, Richmond HL, Saracen, Sir Wanabi, Vinca, Rashka, Romi Z, Valiant SF and Versache. Also Wildwych Eclipse

Bred in Germany:
Confetti, Furst Impression, Highlight, Rapture R,
Bred in Holland: Wamberto

DownYonder

Nov. 12, 2007, 09:46 AM

Yes, Kate bred Fielding. Saracen was bred here too I believe.

Thank you. So Fielding was the highest scoring N.A. bred stallion at the 100DT. Huge kudos to AHF (Kate)!

ise@ssl

Nov. 12, 2007, 09:52 AM

Actually Chris you are wrong - they never called to let the testing know when they would be there. Just the facts. Ask Holly if she called Helmut.

Vineyard Eventing

Nov. 12, 2007, 09:56 AM

In the 100 Day Test the highest scoring stallions for each of their breeds were:

Wamberto (of course) was the highest score over all (Champion) and was the highest scoring Dutch Warmblood with a 158.78.

Worthy Opponent was the Reserve Champ and highest scoring Hanoverian with a 135.52. Technically imported from Germany (enutero), but he was born in Canada.

Confetti was the highest scoring Rheinlander with a 128.77 (what a total cutie this boy is!!)

Fielding was the highest scoring domestically bred Hanoverian with a 125.31. (Go Kate!!)

Saracen was the highest scoring German Oldenburg with a 118.18. I have to say, this boy has come a LONG way since the start of the test!!! I am VERY impressed with Helmut's work and VERY impressed that the stallion had the ability to learn to behave and go in a completely different way from where he started. Seeing him on day 1, day 50 and days 97-100, if it wasn't for the stumpy tail, I would have thought he was a different horse from the beginning!!

Bravo was the highest scoring Oldenburg NA with a 101.06 (go Chris!!!!) Amazing after the horrible start missing the first 40 days. His natural talent showed through!!

This was the most emotional week I think all the SO's have ever been through!!!! :lol: I'm sooooo glad it is all over!!!!! and I am just blown away at where my boy ended up. I couldn't be happier if I tried!!!!! Emotional rollercoaster for all the SO's. I laughed, I cried, I cried, I cried, I laughed and I cried.... :winkgrin:

Erin

Nov. 12, 2007, 10:05 AM

You all are getting exactly ONE warning here. If you cannot discuss this topic without making catty, snarky comments at one another, you will not be allowed to discuss it at all.

Check your personal grievances and vendettas at the door, please.

misita

Nov. 12, 2007, 10:26 AM

Actually Chris you are wrong - they never called to let the testing know when they would be there. Just the facts. Ask Holly if she called Helmut.

Katrin Burger called Helmut several times prior to the announced, to Helmut, GOV stallion inspection. I talked with Helmut many times prior to them, Katrin and Holly, arriving on the 5th. I called Helmut for the last time on the afternoon of the 4th to let him know that Holly and Katrin's plane would be landing at 8:30 am the morning of the
5th and that they would be in route directly from Cincinnati/Northern Kentucky airport and expected to be at Paxton Farm between 10:00-10:30. Helmut said that was fine. He was very gracious about it all even though it was a inconvenience for him. Thank you Helmut!

ISR/OLD NA and HAN both did stallion inspections during the final 3 days of the 100 day test.

GOV will be reviewing the final results of the 100 day and will contact each stallion owner privately towards the end of next week to let the SO's know the results.

www.hiddenvalleyfarms.net

Halfhalting

Nov. 12, 2007, 10:28 AM

Congratulations to all the SO's! You guys were all class acts with your sharing. Thank you for letting us experience some of the "behind the scenes" details with you. I'm THRILLED that all of your guys passed - what a feat!

Special thanks to those of you sharing the details first-hand from the test (like Vineyard's above). I'm humbly gracious for all the extra details since I couldn't attend myself.

Let's keep on our happy faces and continue the great sharing of information! :)

Hocus Focus

Nov. 12, 2007, 10:31 AM

Huge congratulations to all of you! No-one being refused for approval...fantastic!!! What could be better? I believe everyone came home a winner at this one. From glancing through the pictures I have seen, some very nice animals were represented. Rest now and grow back those nails!!!!!!!!!!!!

RodeoQueen

Nov. 12, 2007, 10:35 AM

What is the GOV?

Hocus Focus

Nov. 12, 2007, 10:37 AM

What is the GOV?

German Oldenburg Verband.

Oldenburg now has two ... GOV and ISR OLD...a separation. GOV is German based, and governed. ISR is American based and governed, both are very much in function in the USA. There has been many threads discussing all matters relating to the separation. Good points, bad points. Hope that helps. Others more knowledgable than myself can fill in necessary details. A lot of wind has been blown with this topic in mind. Personally I think if you want to see it all in a postive light, the fact that it happened actually created one more choice in registration and in so doing has developed a larger market for stallion owners.

DownYonder

Nov. 12, 2007, 10:47 AM

Katrin Burger called Helmut several times prior to the announced, to Helmut, GOV stallion inspection. I talked with Helmut many times prior to them, Katrin and Holly, arriving on the 5th. I called Helmut for the last time on the afternoon of the 4th to let him know that Holly and Katrin's plane would be landing at 8:30 am the morning of the
5th and that they would be in rounte directly from Cincinnati/Northern Kentucky airport and expected to be at Paxton Farm between 10:00-10:30. Helmut said that was fine. He was very gracious about it all even though it was a inconvenience for him. Thank you Helmut!

ISR/OLD NA and HAN both did stallion inspections during the final 3 days of the 100 day test.

GOV will be reviewing the final results of the 100 day and will contact each stallion owner privately towards the end of next week to let the SO's know the results.

www.hiddenvalleyfarms.net

Thank you, Chris, for once more setting the record straight. I will also add that each stallion was stood up for conformation evaluation and walked and trotted in hand, and scored. Helmut was apparently not present for this, so he may not have been aware of how they were presented. Again, Holly said that the young man and young woman that presented the stallions did a very professional job.

crestline

Nov. 12, 2007, 11:33 AM

Do you guys know what the required score is for GOV...
I know it's 80 for OLDNA, 90 for Han, 90 for RPSI, 90 for BWP but not sure about GOV...I thought KWPN was 110 but not sure of that either...anyone know for sure?

Vineyard Eventing

Nov. 12, 2007, 11:44 AM

GOV doesn't list what they require. I believe they require 90 for registered GOV stallions and over 100 for non GOV, but please don't quote me on that! I'm just going off what I have heard on that one!

Dutch does require 110 as a total index or 120 in either jumping or Dressage. They reserve the right to not accept a stallion regardless of their scores, which I guess technically all the registries can do through the inspection process.

ljshorses

Nov. 12, 2007, 12:33 PM

I thought RPSI was they just had to pass? When I spoke to Gatsby's owners I thought that was what I understood, hmm.

EquusMagnificus

Nov. 12, 2007, 12:40 PM

I too would like to know more specifically how did Sir Wannabi do at the 100DT :D

Vineyard Eventing

Nov. 12, 2007, 12:44 PM

I'm pretty sure by "just have to pass" means with an acceptable score for that registry. "pass" is a relative term when it comes to this. There really isn't a true "pass/fail". A stallion with an 85 would "pass" for Oldenburg but not Hanoverian. A Hanoverian stallion would "pass" for Hanoverian with a 90, but a non hanoverian would "not pass" with a 115. It is up to the individual registries what they consider to be pass/fail.

Edgar

Nov. 12, 2007, 12:44 PM

Yes, but what does that mean if they did not set a passing score as minimum? The test organizers do not pass or fail them, they just run the test, score them and try to keep them all sound to make it to the end. Making it to the end without a minimum score requirement is not a passing criteria for any registry

crestline

Nov. 12, 2007, 12:46 PM

It's not really a pass/fail test...it's scores handed out and then each registry a stallion is approved with has their own scores to "pass".

OOPS...cross posted with Edgar and Vineyard...:)

Silver Sport Horses

Nov. 12, 2007, 12:55 PM

I have a few questions:

1) Will the registries take into account the quality of foals that have already been presented?

2) Do you think the older stallions get graded subconsciously harder because most likely they show the least improvement overall and more expected of them?

3) Will the registries overlook the 5 point deductions for the older stallions and look at the real score or ???

Vineyard Eventing

Nov. 12, 2007, 01:03 PM

Unfortunately Sir Wanabi was injured prior to the final test so we never got to see that magnificent stallion perform at the final 3 days! He still did amazing based on his scores from the first 97 days and received an average of the final scores of all the stallions presented for the final 3 days. His final points were 117.25 with a 117.17 index for Dressage and 125.54 index for jumping.

EquusMagnificus

Nov. 12, 2007, 01:08 PM

That is very unfortunate...

Guess I'll have to go meet him in person! :winkgrin:

DownYonder

Nov. 12, 2007, 01:17 PM

Did anyone notice that the top 3 stallions in the total rankings for the 100DT had the same rankings for jumping? And the 2nd and 3rd place horses, Worthy Opponent and Rapture R, are from bloodlines more known for dressage horses than jumpers? I find that really interesting!

buggs95

Nov. 12, 2007, 01:18 PM

How does the 5 point handicap for the stallions 5 and older work? Do they have 5 points taken out of their dressage and jumping index?...so a total of 10 points off their total index?...or is it 5 points total off their total index? Thanks!...and Congrats to all of the stallion owners! I can't wait to see the video!

RodeoQueen

Nov. 12, 2007, 02:34 PM

German Oldenburg Verband.

Oldenburg now has two ... GOV and ISR OLD...a separation. GOV is German based, and governed. ISR is American based and governed, both are very much in function in the USA. There has been many threads discussing all matters relating to the separation. Good points, bad points. Hope that helps. Others more knowledgable than myself can fill in necessary details. A lot of wind has been blown with this topic in mind. Personally I think if you want to see it all in a postive light, the fact that it happened actually created one more choice in registration and in so doing has developed a larger market for stallion owners.

thank you for the response. If a mare is bred to one of the "newly approved" ISR stallions, will the baby have to be branded, and if so, what kind of branding mark?? Is the O for GOV only?

Sonesta

Nov. 12, 2007, 02:37 PM

The stallion 5 years and older have 5 points taken off their final score. The dressage index and jumping index are not affected.

At the last testing GOV required 80 points to "pass." If they have changed that number they have not made it public to ANYONE.

What a great group of stallions. One of the inspectors, Cord Wassman, FEI dressage judge and long time stallion inspector and evaluator in Germany, spoke at the dinner on Friday night and said that we should be proud of our domestic bred stallions. He mentioned that we still need to give careful consideration to preparing them better for the testing, but that the quality is excellent. He also did mention that to catch up with the quality in Germany's testings, we need only give some more thought to breeding for a bit more extravagent movement. (Hey, as for me, I'll take the fabulous temperaments I saw than extravagent movement! But that's just me.)

Blurbs from my memory in no particular order:

All the horses looked to be in excellent flesh and condition.

Most surprising horse to me was Rapture R, as he just literally WOWED the crowd with his extensions in the trot and his overall obvious rideability.

Wamberto - OMG! What a horse!

Confetti - I sort of overlooked him the first day as I watched through the cameral lens. But then, the next morning I was like "Who IS that horse??? He is totally wonderful." By Cross country day, I was in love.

Bravo - Adorable with his tail working like a propellor as he tried mightily for his riders. I expect really good things from him in the show ring.

Fielding - SO cool to watch a son of a stallion I know so well (Fred Astair) and he definitely made his sire proud at the testing. A very solid performance. Every time I saw him, I wanted to get on him! I called Fred Astair's former owner (who imported him) from the arena floor when the scores were announced and I swear you could hear her shouting all over the arena from my cell phone.

Richmond H.L. - May have been the prettiest stallion there and has wonderful movement. And while he may not have had too great a jump (he's all dressage lines), that boy is all heart and gave it his very best effort each time. It tickled me to watch him on cross country going for it.

Vinca - a little (15.2 hand) dynamo!

Worthy Opponent - just one word: WOW!

Rashka - the most exaggerated movement of them all. Almost freakish movement. And a son of a stallion I watched at the testing a few years ago. He and Ken seemed to always be having a blast.

Enough for now.....

YankeeLawyer

Nov. 12, 2007, 04:02 PM

YankeeLawyer

Nov. 12, 2007, 04:07 PM

He also did mention that to catch up with the quality in Germany's testings, we need only give some more thought to breeding for a bit more extravagent movement. (Hey, as for me, I'll take the fabulous temperaments I saw than extravagent movement! But that's just me.)

AGREED. I am sure I am going to get flamed, but I am not sure that extra- extravagant movement is something to emulate, anyway.

HFSH

Nov. 12, 2007, 04:44 PM

Sonesta I'm not sure I agree with the 'extravagent' movement comment.

The translation I thought, was to have the horses bred to use their hindquarters better. Ie better engagement of the hindquarters.

?

Sonesta

Nov. 12, 2007, 04:48 PM

Edgewood

Nov. 12, 2007, 06:08 PM

Perhaps you are correct. My brain heard "concentrate on better, bigger movement" and then when I saw the scores they gave Rashka, I interpreted that to mean "more extravagent."

If he DID mean more engagement of the hindquarters, then I am a bit confused as the stallions in this testing seemed to all have quite good engagement.

Well, my interpretation of what he said was that the horses needed to be ridden more over their backs with a stronger connection from the hindlegs through the back to the hand. And to do this, I thought he suggested that we need to be breeding horses that are not "leg movers" but are more naturally inclined to move over their back and keep their hindquarters engaged while maintaining the big/extravagant movement.

So...3 people, 3 different interpretations of what he said.:lol:

YankeeLawyer

Nov. 12, 2007, 06:11 PM

Vineyard Eventing

Nov. 12, 2007, 07:24 PM

Originally Posted by Edgewood
Well, my interpretation of what he said was that the horses needed to be ridden more over their backs with a stronger connection from the hindlegs through the back to the hand. And to do this, I thought he suggested that we need to be breeding horses that are not "leg movers" but are more naturally inclined to move over their back and keep their hindquarters engaged while maintaining the big/extravagant movement

I interpreted his comments the same as Edgewood.... So... does majority rule? HAHA!! :lol: Any other interpretations? :D

HFSH

Nov. 12, 2007, 09:48 PM

Well, my interpretation of what he said was that the horses needed to be ridden more over their backs with a stronger connection from the hindlegs through the back to the hand. And to do this, I thought he suggested that we need to be breeding horses that are not "leg movers" but are more naturally inclined to move over their back and keep their hindquarters engaged while maintaining the big/extravagant movement.

So...3 people, 3 different interpretations of what he said.:lol:

This is what I remember him saying, but Ekkehard clarified again by saying that 'better movers' was meaning the engagement from behind. He DID say we need to learn to train our horses to move across their backs -- again, we don't have enough good young horse trainers in this country!

Hocus Focus

Nov. 12, 2007, 10:05 PM

thank you for the response. If a mare is bred to one of the "newly approved" ISR stallions, will the baby have to be branded, and if so, what kind of branding mark?? Is the O for GOV only?

You should do a search regarding this topic as there have been many questions and answers already given. Bottom line is one registry parted and became two. Battles broke out! When the dust settled... ISR Oldenburg owns the brand in USA....and GOV micro chips in the USA.

So.... if you don't need or want a brand, go GOV. If you require your designer label, go ISR Old. I think if you go to the ISR Oldenburg site, you will see logo there indicative of the brand used. (O with a crown, I believe)

http://www.isroldenburg.org/

If I may offer a suggestion...don't involve yourself in the differences between.... pros/cons of the different registries, two born of the same. Find the one that works best for you and go with it. Don't look back. Be happy.

Vineyard Eventing

Nov. 12, 2007, 10:16 PM

I have to say, for once it seems as though the 5 point age deduction actually seemed to be enough for this test to make it more fair for the stallions in the test! It must be unprecedented in the history of North America 100 Day Test to have 6 of the top 7 horses be either 3 or 4 years old!!! Only Rapture R was older then 4 in the top 7 finishers. Amazing!!!

Or maybe it's just because of the amazing quality of the young stallions in the test? Of course, having literally half the field be 3 years old doesn't hurt! Increases the odds!!! :lol:

Hocus Focus

Nov. 12, 2007, 10:21 PM

Sonesta wrote (among other things).... "Most surprising horse to me was Rapture R, as he just literally WOWED the crowd with his extensions in the trot and his overall obvious rideability."

I knew he had a lot going for him. After having seen the prior test, and seen him perform at Fairhill, I felt he had the makings of a very nice horse, even without ever having seen him jump, which does influence the overall score quite considerably.

Nice comment Rebecca.

If Rapture R finished third, my thought is... their really must have been some "take your breath away" stallions at the testing. Not sure what it is about this horse that has me smitten but I am definitely a fan. Can you tell???? :winkgrin:

Maybe it is what Rebecca touched on, his rideability. He moves like a well oiled machine and with very little difference of opinion. Both qualities I admire.

RodeoQueen

Nov. 13, 2007, 06:59 AM

You should do a search regarding this topic as there have been many questions and answers already given. Bottom line is one registry parted and became two. Battles broke out! When the dust settled... ISR Oldenburg owns the brand in USA....and GOV micro chips in the USA.

So.... if you don't need or want a brand, go GOV. If you require your designer label, go ISR Old. I think if you go to the ISR Oldenburg site, you will see logo there indicative of the brand used. (O with a crown, I believe)

http://www.isroldenburg.org/

If I may offer a suggestion...don't involve yourself in the differences between.... pros/cons of the different registries, two born of the same. Find the one that works best for you and go with it. Don't look back. Be happy.

Thanks for the answer Hocus. The registry stuff can be very confusing to new-comers. I appreciate your response and will heed your advice!

Hocus Focus

Nov. 13, 2007, 07:49 AM

Rodeo Queen.... Nice to be useful!

If you are thinking of starting up, check to see which inspection sites are closest. Go to one. Ask questions. One step at a time... just like everyone else.

Yancey Farms in Ocala, Florida is a GOV afflliated breeder who generally has a good selection of eye candy if you wish to visit her site. Judy (Yancey) is also a nice person to talk to, although at times, she can be very busy. She has been a good friend and very helpful to me. Judy runs an import business.

Kathy St Martin of Equine Reproduction is affiliated with the ISR Oldenburg registry and she is very approachable if you have questions. I like her and I have known her husband probably 20 some years. Both knowledgeable and very professional. I believe they are currently developing a stallion station in Oaklahoma and they also tour the US lecturing as EquineReproduction.com

So, if you find the registry stuff confusing, and would rather learn on a one to one basis, you might try asking questions to the folks who live it and breath it.

DownYonder

Nov. 13, 2007, 08:58 AM

Well, my interpretation of what he said was that the horses needed to be ridden more over their backs with a stronger connection from the hindlegs through the back to the hand. And to do this, I thought he suggested that we need to be breeding horses that are not "leg movers" but are more naturally inclined to move over their back and keep their hindquarters engaged while maintaining the big/extravagant movement.

I wasn't there, but this comment makes sense to me. I know that Oldenburg (GOV) wants to see stallions that swing through their backs and have a carrying hindleg. Stallions that are rigid and inelastic through their toplines or that only push with the hindleg are not of the type Oldenburg likes to license.

grayarabpony

Nov. 13, 2007, 09:01 AM

I'm confused -- I didn't even think it was possible to get extravagant movement without the horse being through his back. Otherwise the horse just looks tense and hollow.

RodeoQueen

Nov. 13, 2007, 10:20 AM

Hocus,

Your advice is good - I will indeed start the process of learning more about each registry. And i think making some calls, searching web sites is good approach. I have time as not breeding my mare until spring - then wait for he baby- but I am very excited as will be my first own dressage horse - daddy will be Vinca - Yipee!!!

Thanks for your suggestions - i might have to make more questions later!

Oakstable

Nov. 13, 2007, 10:50 AM

http://www.breeding-stallions.com/

Wish all the owners of the newly approved stallions would take advantage of this free directory. It makes it so much easier for MO to search for bloodlines of interest.... especially for fresh semen stallions.

ise@ssl

Nov. 13, 2007, 11:42 AM

It appears that many people posting here do not understand the scoring system for a 100 Day test. You should acquaint yourself with how this is done. Half of the scores are done by the Training Director and Team - the other half is at the final testing. All the final test scores are done by the Judges and the guest riders.

To those who weren't there - I believe Cord was referring to some stallions that were not completely over the back and where holding abit in front and pushing out behind. Some of it could have been tension and some could have been the fact that they needed more strength in the back muscles. As we all know some stallions came with more training than others.

Rashka had a superior combination of lightness and power off the hind legs. He was also from watching and speaking to the riders - a wonderful willing horse to ride and very balanced. He is also an extremely attractive horse with very correct conformation and a pretty head. I would be surprised if Ken sold him - since he did his sire Raymeister.

It was interesting to note that 66% of the stallions were North American bred. I'm sure everyone had their favorites or preferred stallions depending on their mares but all in all it was an impressive group with lots of variety and bloodlines represented.

Oakstable

Nov. 13, 2007, 01:51 PM

It seems like there are some combinations of bloodlines that are new to NA.

Highlight, Confetti and Sir Wanabi come to mind.

I like to check that stallion directory that I am so find of. Given the stallions are spread over so many registeries, the directory serves as a database.

FlowerFarm

Nov. 13, 2007, 03:48 PM

Just a quick comment from Vinca's home farm regarding the scoring process. I must say that I cringed the whole last three days when I watched Vinca go. He is normally very free moving, especially when jumping. And he is so easy that when he has been home I have ridden him around bareback. I thought he was just missing that certain something over the weekend. But, he wasn't lame and I am not much of a whiner (though you wouldn't know it now!) so I just watched with anxiety. Indeed, when I got him out of his stall in Pennsylvania this morning, he was barely able to put one foot in front of the other. He has gaping wounds on the backs of both front pasterns and he reacts with extreme pain when I touch them. They will heal, but I can only imagine that he was in some degree of pain for the Final. The scores are what they are and I am proud as a peacock that Vinca was Approved, especially in such outstanding company. But I can't help but be frustruated that he got almost nothing but 8s and 9s for the first 97 days of the testing process and mostly 7s for the final three days. I don't disagree with his scores nor do I, in ANY way, shape or form, have anything but the greatest respect, admiration and down-right affection for Helmut and his staff. I guess I just strongly encourage breeders to consider the big picture much more closely than the snapshot that you saw last weekend. There may be more to it than meets the eye. Okay, I feel a little bit better now! Thanks for letting me put my two cents in!

www.flowerfarmhorses.com

Sonesta

Nov. 13, 2007, 03:58 PM

The testing IS grueling and I do agree that one cannot and should not judge a stallion solely on his performance at the testing. The testing is a STARTING place to evaluate the worth of a stallion and it allows a young stallion to obtain approval and begin breeding BEFORE he goes on to a performance career.

It's a testiment to alll the stallions that they performed as well as they did under the pressure.

And FlowerFarm, thanks for making it clear that you do not blame the testing or its staff for causing the injuries. Your boy was a dynamo and looked like a lot of fun to ride.

YankeeLawyer

Nov. 13, 2007, 04:16 PM

And FlowerFarm, thanks for making it clear that you do not blame the testing or its staff for causing the injuries. Your boy was a dynamo and looked like a lot of fun to ride.

Not to suggest that there is anyone to blame, per se, but .... gaping wounds on the back of his pasterns? Did someone at least tell the owner (Flower) that V had these wounds?

PineTreeFarm

Nov. 13, 2007, 04:20 PM

Indeed, when I got him out of his stall in Pennsylvania this morning, he was barely able to put one foot in front of the other. He has gaping wounds on the backs of both front pasterns and he reacts with extreme pain when I touch them. They will heal, but I can only imagine that he was in some degree of pain for the Final.

Why was he participating in the final 3 days with 'gaping wounds'?

Oakstable

Nov. 13, 2007, 04:40 PM

Why don't you post photos of the "gaping wounds?"

A score of 111.30 is not shabby. Some years that is a very strong score.

With the winner of the KWPN 2006 licensing in the mix, that's pretty formidable company.

Sonesta

Nov. 13, 2007, 05:41 PM

I didn't see anything on him and I am right now looking at his video from the testing, but he IS a black horse, so it's possible that there was something there that I can't see. But, I, too am quite surprised that nothing was mentioned about it to the owner if it occurred there. Any chance it happened after you left the testing???

I know the vet was there the whole time and when Worthy Opponent had just a touch of heat in one leg, the vet pulled him. I just can't fathom not pulling a horse with "gaping wounds."

ahf

Nov. 13, 2007, 06:05 PM

I know I'm late to this thread, and the topics have obviously moved on....but I'm finally home after 13 hours in the truck last night...and a long day in the office today. I feel it's important to say thank you to some people. THe first thing I want to say is to thank everyone on this board that have given me so much private support during this difficult and amazing journey.

The second thing I want to say is that I wish two other people had been at the testing, as it truly took a village to raise my colt. I purchased Fielding's dam Lesley a fuzzy 9 month old. George Walker III had the vision to import Applause and Banter, Angela Barilar had the vision to purchase Lessing from Spruce, and the result was Lesley/ Sharon Garner saw just how special Fred Astair was and brought him here for US breeders to be able to use. I am indebted to these three Hanoverian breeders in ways I just can't express. THey built the foundation that Fielding was able to stand upon. We, as breeders, can't ever forget we are building on the foundation of another breeder's dreams.

Fielding has always humbled and inspired me. To have achieved Class I scores and to be the the top placed NA-bred in the 100dt blows me away. Not in my wildest dreams....

I look forward to owning a competition horse again. He's settled in at Meg William's farm, and Meg looks forward to doing the dressage 4yo's next year. What happens after that I can't say. Both of Fielding's test riders ran me down after the test to plead with me to continue a jumping career. I agree with them, though I feel strongly that this colt has jumped enough for the time being. My first love was 3 day - perhaps he'll be able to participate in the future. It's clearly what he loves. And what a thrill for me.

I look forward to the next chapter.

FlowerFarm

Nov. 13, 2007, 06:42 PM

Well, in defense of those in charge of the horses, they were WAY busy. Both pasterns have fairly severe and deep rubs that are oozing and extremely sore. But, I imagine they started as benign rubs from boots that were, probably, too big. And Vinca earned his 9 for character. He is tough as nails. I kept saying to my friends who were with me at the Testing "He isn't right but I can't put my finger on what IT is." I suspect his riders who knew him best at the Test may have identified the same lack of enthusiasm in him, but didn't have the luxury of delving into it. And he was sound when jogged. Not huge moving, but definitely sound. Adreneline is an amazing thing. Beyond that, I can't explain it but I have been doing the horse thing long enough to know that these things happen. And usually do when it matters most! I'm just relieved to know what the missing "IT" was so we can get him fixed up and move on. My point in posting was simply to encourage breeders to look beyond the FINAL score. All the stallion owners got a fairly comprehensive evaluation. I know that I am happy and even eager to make that available to my prospective breeders. That being said, what a lovely group of horses. . .

Sonesta

Nov. 13, 2007, 06:49 PM

Glad to hear it was more "severe rubs" than "gaping wounds." He is a darling boy and I loved his "can do" attitude.

FlowerFarm

Nov. 13, 2007, 06:52 PM

Sorry. I think I missed some stuff that was on here when I posted a minute ago. And I don't want to turn this into a thing about Vinca. Again, my purpose was to encourage a look into the whole 100 days to accomodate those horses who may not have been at their peak for the final weekend. Sure, it is possible he got hurt beween Sunday and today. He was wrapped in standing bandages that came to the ankle to come home, was unwrapped, and went straight into his stall upon return home. He was briefly turned out in the indoor yesterday where he ran like an idiot and was promptly put back into his stall. I noticed it today when I put him out and he moved so sore. It is my fault for not looking him over more thoroughly and maybe that wasn't bothering him. Who knows? I thought that he didn't look like himself, whatever that means, and I am looking at this as a possible solution. Again, I'm not complaining or anything else, just illustrating a possible reason to consider the entire testing process. Hope that helps!

Tiki

Nov. 13, 2007, 07:09 PM

I would think that if the sores were that bad when he left Paxton Farm that whoever wrapped him for the trip would have seen them. It could have happened on the long trailer ride from the wraps rubbing him.

sid

Nov. 13, 2007, 07:45 PM

Amadeus' owner called me today and we spoke at great length and she's happy it's over. But there is much more than meets the casual eye in those last 3 days. Turns out her stallion was injured on 10/1 with a big tendon as well as a lameness from losing a loose shoe (when she had asked the horse to be reshod) during a jumping session. She was not allowed in the stall to tend to his injury. Eventually a huge abscess eventually blew out but the fat tendon remained so he did no jumping until a couple of weeks before the last three days -- even then very lightly. This horse had no jumping training before the test. I told her she should be happy he did as well as he did, considering his lack of experience, losing all the training time and his injury that tendon that had no time to really recover completely. Obviously it wasn't so severe that he couldn't do the last 3 days but it was a close call.

This kind of thing happens we know. I'm sure other horses had similar experiences. However, she almost pulled him when he came back welted from the whip on one ocassion, but it wasn't from his regular rider. She told me who beat her horse, but I will not post that here. She had nothing but absolutely wonderful things to say about the "kids" that were the riders. But her horse came through in the end, but he'll need a few months off to let that tendon recover, recover his "mouth" and tension that developed.

At 50 days he was doing fabulously, but after the injury was really not up to par. I'm sure others will need to recover from these rigors and injuries that may have affected their final performance as well. It comes with the territory, as we know.

I asked her if she'd do it again and she said "no"...she'd opt for the 30 day test instead and put more training time in the horse at home, especially in jumping (she was told not to worry about his lack of jumping experience, that's they'd "train him"). Being a neophyte to the testing, she said that it was her failure in not having him jumping u/s well before the test, so that in the event of a layoff due to injury during the test, he could get back "to it" instead of being trained while he was painful.

I'm really tickled that she may swing by my farm and spend a day or two with Amadeus in tow, so she can finally meet Argosy in person. It will be fun to see father and son in close proximity for me!

vandenbrink

Nov. 13, 2007, 08:01 PM

We do a 10 day test in Canada for the Canadian Warmblood Studbook that is open to other studbooks as well if they would like to participate.

The advantage... it's only 10 days..so you can stay with your horse if you wish, it's a lot cheaper to operate, and people are more comfortable sending their stallions.

The owner is expected to take care of the training and have their horses well prepare on the flat and over fences. The first 6-7 days of the 10 day test are to work with a resident trainer to fine tune the horses and and most of the evaluation is done the last 3-4 days. It's based on the Swedish format and has worked quite well for us.

Horses like Bratt Z, Popeye K and Sir Wannabi are all graduates of that test.

All performance test come with some hiccups...I think a shorter format test has some real advantages.

HFSH

Nov. 13, 2007, 08:30 PM

I spoke tonight with another stallion owner who's boy has a similar injury as Vinca's owner described. We're guessing it happened on XC in the longer grass.

They're not happy but not angry about it either.

misita

Nov. 13, 2007, 08:39 PM

The top 4 horses were all bred in Europe and 3 were imported. Since our horses quality has reached the European standards this says alot about our training of our young horses. Many of the young horses at the 100 day were not properly prepared. We were told it was okay to send them. That the test is made for 3 year olds. But the truth is, 'the young horse must be properly prepared physically, u/s, and jumping. I would send another horse to the 100 day but there is much I would do different. And I would not send a 3 year old. I'm not complaining about the test only acknowledging there are many mistakes I made in my own horses preparedness. Those of you contemplating sending a stallion, make no mistake, he needs to be properly prepared well in advance.

It would be very useful to put together something for owners with stallion prospects to help them prepare their stallions properly. I think Cord was trying to tell us one of our biggest weaknesses from Europe is 'our horses are not properly prepared.'

www.hiddenvalleyfarms.net

Sonesta

Nov. 13, 2007, 08:45 PM

misita

Nov. 13, 2007, 08:52 PM

That is such a great idea. Stallion owners really need that information. Especially the first time stallion owners like me. I hope you got some good video of my Bravo, aka Mr. Propellar. You know, he only does that so he can go faster.:winkgrin:

www.hiddenvalleyfarms.net

ltw

Nov. 13, 2007, 08:54 PM

I would like to add one thought...... Has anyone sent press releases to Dressage Daily about the results, or to the appropriate press for the eventing and jumping world (sorry- don't know those websites)?.

I have watched how EuroDressage and Dressage Daily report often on the results of Stallion licensing and testing in Europe. It dissapoints me to see that today there is no information.

It is important that breeders and stallion owners do not get too out of touch with the performance aspects of our sport.

It is important that the performance organizations and press organizations of our sport recognize, reward and promote the successful breeders and stallion owners in the USA.

The only way they will do this is if we stay in front of them with information, press releases and news about the great successes of our USA breeders.

We have to do this to keep the buyers of performance horses from continuing to get on the plane and fly overseas. We breed great horses, we raise great horses. The Dollar is at an all time low against the Euro. We need to make sure that all US dressage,hunter/ jumper and event riders know what we are doing to improve our horses in the USA.

My advice is that press releases should have been in the hands of all of the US Equestrian Press today about the results of this Stallion test. I did not see that happen. There needs to be a better "marketing machine" here to promote our horses.

After every auction and stallion licensing I have an email in my box within hours from Bettina Dirks from the Hanoverian Verband. That is what needs to happen here.

Just my two cents.

Laura

Sonesta

Nov. 13, 2007, 08:57 PM

Great idea! Call HBJ and ask him if he's done that. If not, suggest to him that he have Sandy put a press release together!

sid

Nov. 13, 2007, 09:58 PM

Absolutely, Laura.

It would be helpful if publications like COTH, Hunter and Sport Horse and other widely read magazines would publish this information in a BIG way... perhaps paid for by all of the Verbands at the end of the testing.

Or at minimum, I would think that those publications would take the needed step to post such information on their own dime if only to prove that they are "on top" of that which is so important to Americans regarding American bred sport horses for their readers to enjoy knowing about.

I'm not talking about an article or an editorial, but simply an announcement. Cripes, we know which hunt went out last week, and who won the HB class at Devon or Upperville in these publications. I would hope they would see this information as BIG news for all who are involved with horses...whether in performance or in breeding. This would expand their readership, help promote American bred performance horses on a more informative basis instead of only looking for stallion ad $$ as if that is the only thing this is about.

YankeeLawyer

Nov. 13, 2007, 10:12 PM

Fielding has always humbled and inspired me. To have achieved Class I scores and to be the the top placed NA-bred in the 100dt blows me away. Not in my wildest dreams....

But *we* all believed in you and Fielding! Congratulations on receiving confirmation of his talents. It is very well-deserved!

YankeeLawyer

Nov. 13, 2007, 10:13 PM

YankeeLawyer

Nov. 13, 2007, 10:37 PM

misita, this is the very reason we are putting together a video about the 100 day testing and how to properly prepare for it. Should be out by this summer. I now have the rest of the video tape I needed, the script is written and most of the editing done.

I think this is a great idea, and I was going to suggest the same as I know for example there are helpful materials available regarding how to prepare a mare for the MPT. The 100-day testing, obviously, requires even more extensive preparation.

I think such a video would be useful not only to SOs contemplating sending a colt to be tested, but also to MOs so that people can understand the testing process better in general. I would be very interested in seeing the video, though I have no immediate plans to raise a stallion.

crestline

Nov. 13, 2007, 10:38 PM

To those of you that have horses with "rubs" or "wounds" on the pasterns...it's probably a fungus type deal and is not an injury. Palladio also finished the test with these. They are painful and when he had them it did affect Palladio's movment. We occasionally see them in WA as well with all our lovely wet weather. I swear whatever causes it just gets in the footing and waits for it's next victim. Palladio's were tough to heal and we found a magic solution in Arizona when they flaired back up down there. When he flaired up he went from barely a mark on his pasterns to cracked open and actively bleeding almost overnight. The vet there gave us some stuff called Mal Otic ointment that finally got them cleared up. Keep them lightly wrapped and totally, totally dry, pick the scabs off and spread a thin layer of ointment. This finally got them licked for good. Since the scabs are painful the horses don't love being picked at but it does get it healed. This stuff does test so you have to use it at night as it has a 6 hr withdrawl. It's expensive but did the trick.

Also, the way that the scabs form they can appear pretty suddenly and look really ugly in a hurry...

DownYonder

Nov. 14, 2007, 06:39 AM

We, as breeders, can't ever forget we are building on the foundation of another breeder's dreams.

Well said, Kate.

Fielding has always humbled and inspired me. To have achieved Class I scores and to be the the top placed NA-bred in the 100dt blows me away.

Enjoy it, Kate - you deserve it! And many best wishes as Fielding moves on to the next phase of his life as a competition and breeding stallion. I hope he attracts many lovely ladies!

DownYonder

Nov. 14, 2007, 06:39 AM

copper bay farm

Nov. 14, 2007, 10:25 AM

Great idea! Call HBJ and ask him if he's done that. If not, suggest to him that he have Sandy put a press release together!

An AHS press release has already been prepared - sorry, I don't have the authority (I don't think) to do one for the whole testing so this one has a Hanoverian slant. There are some nice pics of the top horses.

http://www.hanoverian.org/artman2/publish/Registry_News_20/Hanoverians_Finish_Strong_in_the_Finals.shtml

tri

Nov. 14, 2007, 12:57 PM

I know in the past, the AHS required a publication to pay them to get an informational article about the results of the 100 day testing. Perhaps they will be more cooperative and marketing-minded nowadays.

Riva

Nov. 14, 2007, 08:50 PM

well...here are some of the pics I got from the 100DT. I am still working on editing them (I took around 1100 pics). Unfortunately, I've also not had a chance to really catalog them, so...I have four stallions separated out (my four favorites) and then the rest are still bunched together. I will get them all by stallion name soon!

Wamburto:
http://www.putfile.com/matreiya/images/159854

Saracen:
http://www.putfile.com/matreiya/images/159853

Worthy Opponent:
http://www.putfile.com/matreiya/images/159855

Versache:
http://www.putfile.com/matreiya/images/159857

The rest:
http://www.putfile.com/matreiya/images/159864

Vineyard Eventing

Nov. 15, 2007, 01:21 AM

I can't stop smiling!!!! My little boy is on someone's favorites list!!! :D :D :D

Thanks for the pictures! These are just about the only jumping pictures anyone even got of him! All mine are blurry beyond belief! Thanks for the pictures!!! :D

DownYonder

Nov. 15, 2007, 06:17 AM

DownYonder

Nov. 15, 2007, 06:43 AM

Quick question -
Are the 30DT stallions scored only against each other, or are they scored against the 100DT stallions?

ise@ssl

Nov. 15, 2007, 06:50 AM

ise@ssl

Nov. 15, 2007, 07:00 AM

Sorry to hear that Vinca has some rubs - it's not unusual for something like that to happen when the horses have 3 days of intense work in various disciplines. I was very impressed with him including his cross country work - this boy can gallop! He's also lovely under saddle and over fences.

But this does raise the good point that people should looke at the DETAILED SCORES - not just the total and not just the final. I personally weight the 97 day scores heavily - these are the riders who are with them daily. The final is helpful but I only weight it when I have watched it or know the guest riders and their riding styles.

Also to have horses come back home on a long trailer trip after the final testing would normally leave them pretty stiff. We have horses/ponies ship long distances (even back and forth to Germany) and know that being "tight" is common. The stallions were all very fit and in super shape so the time spent traveling (standing) would leave them tight. We try to arrange a massage for any of our horses when they travel far and also for the 3Day horses we've had after a competition and also turn out but not a complete let down - i.e. some free lunging or light work to keep the muscles and tendons etc. moving.

ljshorses

Nov. 15, 2007, 08:48 AM

To answer my own question about RPSI...in the case of Gatsby, he is fully approved Book I RPSI. Also, have heard that Gatsby was another one that did better earlier in the test but was sore at the last few days. Apparently it was a lower back injury? There were quite a few stallions that I witnessed having to struggle a bit at the end but for goodness sake, no matter what the age they are, this type of intense training away from home must be grueling to them. My hats off to all, they perservered and made it through! Congrats to all the stallions and their wonderful owners that believed so strongly in them.

DownYonder

Nov. 15, 2007, 08:54 AM

Helmut Schrant the Breeding Director called me last evening. He was rather distressed when he heard from someone else (not me) that Chris Hutchins made the comment on here that he was trying to "CYA" regarding the GOV coming to inspect. He asked me to post the following -
1. Chris MIsita told him she had contacted the GOV to inspect her horse. He said that was fine.
2. She indicated she was contacting other stallions owners to see if they wanted their stallions inspected as well.
3. Helmut told her that each stallion owner would have to call him to authorize this. Inspections by registries are ALWAYS arranged by the Registry official contacting the Training Director - in this case Helmut.
4. Helmut told Chris to have the GOV contact him to schedule when they would be coming - THEY NEVER DID.
5. Holly Simonsen DID NOT call him.
6. Katrin Burger DID NOT call him.
7. The first time Helmut knew when they would be coming - was when they showed up the Monday before the final testing at 10:30 AM and said they wanted to see the horses. He told them some were in work and he would not change the work schedule - but arranged to have 2 of the Team Riders take time out of what is a very busy schedule the days before the final test to walk and trot the stallions. He offered to set up a jump for free jumping - they said they didn't need it.
8. Stallion inspections have always been done during the Mid-Test (by prior arrangements with the Training Director) or at or after the Final Test - again with prior arrangements with the Training Director.

These are the facts regarding what happened. No covering up anything!!

Sounds like there is a difference of opinion on what actually happened. The point is that the Oldenburg inspectors were asked by the stallion owners to inspect the stallions and they did their best to oblige them, including taking a red-eye flight from California the night before the inspection. The stallion owners were told to make sure Helmut knew the inspectors were coming, and in fact, when I discussed with one stallion owner the possibility of having her stallion looked at, I told her that Holly was emphatic that she contact Helmut and make him aware they were going to look at her stallion. It is too bad that some people feel a need to belittle the effort of the Oldenburg inspectors to try to accomodate the stallion owners.

DownYonder

Nov. 15, 2007, 08:57 AM

Quick question -
Are the 30DT stallions scored only against each other, or are they scored against the 100DT stallions?

Ilona, since you are familiar with the scoring system - can you answer this question? Sorry if this info was posted earlier - if so, I missed it.

HFSH

Nov. 15, 2007, 09:11 AM

Ilona, do you know when & where the detailed scores will be available?

tri

Nov. 15, 2007, 09:16 AM

Ilona you have been popped before for speaking supposedly "on behalf" of registry and other officials and, in fact, have had some of those people get on this board themselves and say don't listen to you.

Your original post in this thread about the old verband coming to the test smacks of trying to start yet another fight and shows the continuing aggression that ISR people have against the Old Verband people. Then you wonder why the Old Verband folks are still harboring a grudge against the ISR folks!!! Incredible!

While I have/had horses registered with both registries, I don't actively use either one and nobody has to wonder why.

misita

Nov. 15, 2007, 09:48 AM

I contacted Holly Simensen originally on 10/30 because I discovered in 2008 the GOV inspection would be in Southern Ca. at least a 12 hour drive from me. Then I saw she would be at the Hassler stallion inspection on Nov. 6th. I e-mailed her to ask how many SO's it would take for them to swing by the finals to look at our horses. Before she could respond, I did I little survey of the SO's to see who would want their stallions seen IF GOV made the extra trip. 12 SO's wanted their horses seen. So I e-mailed Holly the list.

Due to their very tight schedule they were unable to come at any time except Nov. 5th. I talked with Helmut on 10/31 and he told me all the SO's must contact him via phone or fax giving him permission for GOV to see the stallions. I e-mailed all the SO's on 10/31 telling them to contact Helmut.

On Nov. 4 Holly called me to say that Helmut says he had not heard from some of the SO's and he wouldn't show those stallions. I talked with Helmut immediately after and we went through the list of who was to be seen. He had heard from all the SO's who did want their horses seen.

On the afternoon of Nov 4th I called Helmut to tell him they would be at Paxton Farm on Nov.5th between 10:00-10:30. He was mowing the XC course. He said okay.

Holly Simensen told me on Nov. 11th that Katrin Burger had talked with Helmut several times.

Holly and Katrin came to see the stallions at great inconvenience for us, the SO's. They saved me 4 days traveling and about $4,000. I suspect it saved many of the other SO's about the same.

It was nobody's intention to inconvenience Helmut or make him upset. We were just trying to kill 2 birds with 1 stone.

www.hiddenvalleyfarms.net

DownYonder

Nov. 15, 2007, 10:01 AM

And it was not my intention to upset Helmut by saying he was trying to "CYA". However, SOMEONE was/is intent on planting and perpetuating the rumor that he was unaware Holly and Katrin were coming. We have heard repeatedly that was NOT the case, that he WAS advised ahead of time. If some ISR people are upset because Helmut helped accomodate the Oldenburg inspectors, that is between them and Helmut.

misita

Nov. 15, 2007, 10:13 AM

Helmut was told what day and what time Katrin and Holly would arrive. He was mowing the XC course. Who knows, maybe it went in one ear and out the other. That happens to me all the time. Especially when I'm stressed and have alot on my mind. Helmut did a wonderful job with my horse and he always contacted me prompltly when I needed to talk with him. I have no reason to believe he's trying to CYA. I think we have some misunderstandings that it would be best to just chalk up to 'we agree to disagree' on this one point. Nothing was done intentionally by Holly, Katrin, Helmut, or me to harm any other. Just a miscommunication. It happens all the time. Let's just be happy for all the SO's who won't have to travel and spend money on this one extra trip. Now they can spend more time showing and breeding their fine horses.:)

www.hiddenvalleyfarms.net

ahf

Nov. 15, 2007, 10:14 AM

Got a check-in phone call last night from Fielding's new rider, Meg Williams.

Meg has put two stallions through the test over the past 17 years. One of the many reasons Meg was such a good fit for me and for Fielding is that she is very aware and experienced in dealing with "rehab" after the 100dt for stallions.

I am thrilled (but not surprised) to report that Meg says she has no complaints whatsoever. The stallion is forward, willing and supple, and an utter joy to ride. He is being let down some, as would any horse that has been through a grueling period - but there is no "damage" to control, and no "rehab" necessary.

I am a very happy camper.

DownYonder

Nov. 15, 2007, 10:23 AM

Yeah! What happy news! :)

Vineyard Eventing

Nov. 15, 2007, 10:36 AM

Kate! That is BEYOND awesome!!!

My guy is still about 1000 miles from home.... :no: :sadsmile: :no: But he'll be here soon!!! :winkgrin:

Great job with Fielding! SO impressive to see a domestic boy kicking buns!!! :D I hope to have a domestic Archie Jr someday do as well!!! :yes:

DownYonder

Nov. 15, 2007, 10:58 AM

You know what I think is so cool about Fielding? He is not from any of the recent fashionable bloodlines. There is no Donnerhall, no Rubinstein, no Sandro Hit, no Londonderry, no Florestan, etc., in his pedigree - just good, solid, well-respected but mostly older Hanoverian lines. I think it is just wonderful that he was approved for breeding, and even more wonderful that he did so well in the 100DT. Not bad for a 3rd generation N.A. homebred!

PineTreeFarm

Nov. 15, 2007, 11:05 AM

Meg has put two stallions through the test over the past 17 years. One of the many reasons Meg was such a good fit for me and for Fielding is that she is very aware and experienced in dealing with "rehab" after the 100dt for stallions. .

I hope you don't mean to imply that horses in the 100 day test need 'rehab' as a normal course of events. If so that's pretty scary.

Some of the injuries described such as the pastern injuries that happened to one or two horses could be defined as cruelty under USEF's rules.

ahf

Nov. 15, 2007, 11:20 AM

I've been very upfront in previous posts by saying I would NEVER put a three year old through this again. They just don't need to jump that much or that high. I did my homework, and thought I knew what I was getting him into...but....you can be told the test is "hard" but until you see it touch it, feel it, "hard" doesn't have a context. Now it does.

Yes - rehab after something this gruelling is not at all un-heard of. As any eventer will tell you. (You want scary? walk the barns after XC in a CCI**) And test riders vary from test to test. Some are better than others. I was more concerned about the jumping ability of the test riders, as Fielding had VERY good basics on the flat before he went, and I felt that if he picked up some bad habits on the flat - they would be fixable.

My POINT WAS it doesn't have to be "fixed". He's well, and happy, and sound, and fit. There is no "re-training' that has to be done. He's out of the box, ready to play with.

Tiki

Nov. 15, 2007, 11:55 AM

Some of the injuries described such as the pastern injuries that happened to one or two horses could be defined as cruelty under USEF's rules.How in the name of whatever god you believe in do you get cruelty out of what is most probably rubs from boots or weeping from scratches? The SO said they were not really gaping wounds after, but sore spots that are oozing fluid. They could have come form the bandages rubbing on a many, many hour trailer ride home.

Most of the horses need to be let down for about a month after they get back from a test like that. It's very consistent work, a couple of times a day, with 3 days of testing under different conditions and different riders at the end.

crestline

Nov. 15, 2007, 12:59 PM

Seriously though....please, please take my word for it that those pastern "rubs" are not boot or wrap induced and really are most likely going to turn out to be fungus. They are a PITA to deal with and if you treat them like a cut or rub, you'll probably have them around for a good long while. We thought we had them licked and they flaired up in AZ really badly and cracked open and started bleeding as we jogged in to collect our ribbons...that cost us the reserve championship in the Regulars (MAJOR BUMMER!!!)...AND I might add this was right in front of me with my hands on the horse every day.... They went from tiny, almost healed little nothings to cracked and open literally overnight as soon as it rained at the show. Call your vet, get their opinion but please mention the Mal Otic or something similar as it was the only way we finally got them licked for good.