Vehicle Shopping

[Renae]

More pondering on vehicle shopping. If this was your horse http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ARU8gYkqZ4 a 4 year old, green broke to drive, 16 hand and about 900 pounds Dutch Harness Horse/Arabian gelding, and you were shopping for a small vehicle, 2 wheels or possibly 4 wheels and cut-under, 2-4 person seater, suitable for recreational driving on groomed carriage paths and carriage pleasure driving shows, what would you buy? Oh, and I do not like rear entry 2 wheeled vehicles, so for me a meadowbrook or similiar type cart is out ofthe question.

[Thomas_1]

I'd say any of the top brands so either a Bennington, Kuhlne or ECC and dependent on what you want to pay.

[Renae]

I'm just more used to showing in divisions where you must use this vehicle, such as with the Hackney Ponies you must use a viceroy for the harness pony class and you must use a sulky in the roadster classes. So the choices are a bit overwhelming. I think we are going to try to stay between $2000 and $6000 and have no qualms about buying serviceable restored antqiques or used vehicles if that is what turns out to be the most servicable thing fo us and catches out fancy :)

[Drive NJ]

I think you need to get a bit more specific in what you'd like to do

1- do you need/want to seat more than 2 people?
This will really change the direction of what you need to look at and a wagonette 4 wheel is most likely to fill that need
for just seating 2 people - do you want 2 or 4 wheels
for 4 wheels- there are some nice spyder phaetons show vehicles out there and you might be ablet o find a good price used. New England Carriage had a nice one

for 2 wheels you want to look at more of a Gig with front entry
some of the new "Gig type" road carts that are popular in the CDE crowd right now I think are pretty difficult to get in and out of - even though they are front entry

The RunningBrook Farm Spinner tries to address some of these concerns and yet still have some style

You also need to consider how much and what level show you will really try to do (Walnut Hill vs local) and how much off farm recreational driving you will be doing and where. Driving at the Rockefeller estate is a lot different than driving at the Pine Barrens!

[Renae]

Size, can we say fits in the back of the truck when the horse goes in the bumper pull trailer? I am thinking more 2 person but if a dos-a-dos seating style 4 person cart was available that seemed to fit all my other criteria I don't think that would be out of the question. I am mostly being drawn to 2 wheelers (I think, well today anyways :lol:).

So far things that have caught my eye have included Greenall's Country Gig and Village Cart; the Dos-A-dos Phaeton, Country Gig, and Wicker Village Cart at Colonial Carraige Works; the Dog Cart and Country Gig at Summitview Carriage.

Right now the primary place we trail ride, and thus would drive, is Rockefeller, so that is hard packed carriage roads and a bit of hill work. If we ever went to do work in more variable footing on less ideal trails or decided to want to do marathon course type stuff a second vehicle would definatly be in order ;) Showing, who knows how far we would go there. I would like something that cleaned up and turned out properly would not be out of place in the best carriage pleasure drving competition.

I think I make this to difficult by giving myself to many options :dead:

[goodhors]

With your remarks on horse, young 4, green to driving, light bodied, I would find a 2-wheeler for the first year. He needs experience in harness, time to develop his muscling, bone density, no heavy loads on hills, even gentle ones at first.

Arab and Dutch Harness, both are long-lived breeds, which can make for slow brain development in understanding his work. More playful, short attention spans until they have more age on them. Demanding their attention, can backfire. Often just not capable mentally yet at 4yrs, of paying attention. Easy, fun outings, will make him enjoy his work now, so he will still be a fun horse to use as he ages. He should not have to struggle or strain to move his loaded carriage. Just going along will help him get stronger, brave in facing hills, holding back coming down slopes. He has to learn his jobs, sharpen his skills managing the vehicle, BEFORE he can move up to a more difficult load or 4-wheeler. He has to listen, follow your directions, EVERY TIME in backing, side passing, gait changes, turns, facing new things, scary things.

I would strongly suggest something with 2-wheels, not real heavy built. Road Carts are pretty inexpensive, under $2000 for the good ones. Leaves you money for a 2nd, more fancy carriage to show, or wait on a 4-wheeler.

Almost any of the 2-wheelers should fit into a long-bed (8ft) pickup with a bar to hold up the shafts behind cab. The Road Cart styles are pretty light to pull for horse, easy to load in most cases. Electric winch in truck bed is a WONDERFUL device! Like hired help, ready when you need it, just push the button.

2-wheels are much the safest vehicle to start a young animal in, can't jack-knife on you if he does a dumb thing. Almost every equine will, as a beginner, learning directions, new situations. You are a driver, have shown in rings, but how much of your experience is road driving? You need to get familiar with what a carriage style, 2-wheeler is capable of doing. Maybe you are totally familiar with wooden wheel carriages. You still need to let horse get comfortable, learn to brave in his work, trusting of your control of situations. In our experience, young horse has to be taught they CAN manage the load, face the dog in road, pass the racing cattle. Load being pulled has to be increased gradually, so he STILL can go forward, preparing for bigger pull of 4-wheels or more passengers. I see a lot of quitters at picnic drives, won't pull 2 people, because "they just never have any passengers" riding along in daily life. More weight scares them.

A really pretty carriage would be nice. Yet with such a young, just started animal, I would not get it for him. He needs a lot of work time, experience, before trusting him with expensive stuff. Find a basic Road Cart, work with him over the winter if possible. Get some hours and miles on him at gentle slow speeds, lots of walking, slow and fast. Same with trot, get him regular in all 3 trot speeds, comfortable. Practice all the moves he needs to know. Get him responsive, not overly reactive to whip, reins, voice. You won't feel bad if Road Cart gets some stone nicks, rained on, driven thru the mud and dirt of winter season, scratched in hauling or bumped into something. It is his learning cart.

While he is getting all that learning down well, you can still shop around, just take your time. Practicing moving the Road Cart around will let you learn logistics of hauling, loading and unloading vehicles. May help in choosing what styles you want in the next purchase. What you like or hate about 2-wheels over a long use time! By then you may have firm ideas of how fancy carriage will be used, so that can narrow choices to look for.

Again, 2-wheels now, a simple, light cart. Let him learn his job well, before moving to more challenging carriages later.

[Renae]

Thanks for helping me ponder guys something like a front entry road cart, like that Running Brook Spinner or soemthing similiar, might be what the situation calls for at this time. The jog cart we are driving now definatly isn't taking us anywhere off the farm, no matter how much I like tooling around in them. Will keep you updated if I make any decisions :)

[pricestory]

I have Claudette's version of the Spinner. It was Poppy's first vehicle and we did everything in it the first year and a half, from trails to Pleasure Shows to CDE. I love it and still have it to use at Pleasure shows. It cleans up nicely and is very appropriate for almost everything. I wouldn't attempt Prelim CDE's marathon with it but it was fine for training level.

[Drive NJ]

So Renae
do you have a timeframe in which you'd like to buy said cart?

I looked at some of your choices and can report that several people in CDE used to dirve the greenal country gig in dressage/cones but the current vehicle-du-jour seems to be a painted roadcart that I have to say I dont much like. (Also several have broken in competition - though not all at the same site break)

I find the colonial carriage prices seem a bit high and you have to add shipping or a trip to wisconsin to the price

The summitview carriages on your list are nice looking vehicles - love to try out with someone before I bought sight unseen

At our barn we have a large pony version on the painted roadcart and sometime in the near future will have a RBF spinner and a horse size marathon cart like greenalls. Youd be welcome to come see them and for a ride if you like (we are in western Hunterdon CTY near the Delaware)

Can probably find a few other vehicles you can try in the near area if you want to make a roadtrip of it

Just for an opinion - the RBF Spinner in natural with the spindle seat rail is a pretty classy looking vehicle

[War Admiral]

Just for an opinion - the RBF Spinner in natural with the spindle seat rail is a pretty classy looking vehicle

I second this... I was impressed by the pics anyway!

[Renae]

I think we'll get something sometime this winter. Would definatly be nice to have the horse used to a "big boy" cart and wearing breeching so that we could try Rockefeller with him in the spring (on a nice quiet weekday with several of our ol' broke quarter horses being ridden along side :) ) and I would like to try to qualify him over the next 2 years for carraige pleasure driving at Arabian Sport Horse Nationals in 2009 (he'll be 6 and it will be in Lexington, KY). Would love to take you up on the offer to come check out vehicles DriveNJ. I was at PJ and Tara Crowleys a couple weeks ago and we were going through all the semi trailers full of vehicles there. So many pretty things...... I'm terrible......

[Ashemont]

We started out both our horse and pony with nice Easy Entry road carts and we're glad we did. They both clean up nicely for pleasure shows and they're good to drop back to if horse or pony needs a reminder to stay straight. The horse one was $1200 new but we spent a few hundred adding a spares box (custom-made by Bill Long :)), adding toe stops, steps on both sides, widening shafts, etc. It still was well under $2000.

I picked up a pony version that already had the spares box for $700. I spent another $100 getting toe stops, shortening shafts, and refinishing. I've won a number of pleasure classes with it and I even ran cones in it a couple of times. However, now that I also have a WCC - 130 Batmobile marathon carriage I wouldn't want to try doing any tight and fast maneuvering in anything else :D

Good luck with whatever you decide to buy. Just make sure it fits your horse correctly and if it doesn't, get someone who knows what he/she is doing to fix it ;)

[Renae]

I have found a Miller Phaeton Body Road Cart that I like a lot. Anyone have experience with this maker and style? It is very handsome, black body, burgundy undercarriage, shafts and wheels, and grey pinstriping and upholstery alld with brass fittings.

Now a question as to what is the most correct harness with a painted road cart. Obviously black leather with brass hardware, and patent trim on the harness would be acceptable. How wide should the saddle be? Should the saddle have padded skirts and/or a sliding backband? What kind of tugs are best for a two wheeled road cart? Should the breastcollar have a false martingale?

[ImaDriver]

Renae, are you still interested in some help with harness questions?
First off will you be driving in Rockefeller during the winter? You may want to consider driving with borium on your horses shoes, as far as safety with him slipping. Borium gives less of a jolt to a youngsters legs as far as traction goes.
As to his harness, you may not want to use a show harness with patent and brass for training, a nice synthetic harness is a great investment for saving cleaning time, and lasts forever. Our oldest harness that is synthetic leather look-a-like is over 10 years old, with LOTS of mileage and looks new when wiped clean. A good leather harness these days can be quite an investment, with a Deluxe Smuckers harness running about 2 thousand dollars, a bettter grade harness is about 3 to 5 thousand dollars, if it's new, in todays market. A new BioMatte carriage harness can be bought for about 750 or 800 dollars. Quick release shackles and shaft holders are the way to go if you are training young horses or old.
Also, as to carriages, a high seat gig is a simple wooden cart, not too heavy, and you can get on and off easily, not trapped inside a meadowbrook if something goes wrong. I would make sure your horse is steady before trucking into a park to drive. Email me,

[ImaDriver]

Renae, are you still interested in some help with harness questions?
First off will you be driving in Rockefeller during the winter? You may want to consider driving with borium on your horses shoes, as far as safety with him slipping. Borium gives less of a jolt to a youngsters legs as far as traction goes.
As to his harness, you may not want to use a show harness with patent and brass for training, a nice synthetic harness is a great investment for saving cleaning time, and lasts forever. Our oldest harness that is synthetic leather look-a-like is over 10 years old, with LOTS of mileage and looks new when wiped clean. A good leather harness these days can be quite an investment, with a Deluxe Smuckers harness running about 2 thousand dollars, a bettter grade harness is about 3 to 5 thousand dollars, if it's new, in todays market. A new BioMatte carriage harness can be bought for about 750 or 800 dollars. Quick release shackles and shaft holders are the way to go if you are training young horses or old.
Also, as to carriages, a high seat gig is a simple wooden cart, not too heavy, and you can get on and off easily, not trapped inside a meadowbrook if something goes wrong. I would make sure your horse is steady before trucking into a park to drive. Email me, ImaDriver

[Renae]

Hey, yeah, sorry I never got a chance to take you up on the offer to check your stuff out, but I may have to visit some time anyways :) WE got a paheton body road cart, front entry, we've had him to it once so far and it works out well. We got a harness from Coachman's Delight, there badis leather harness with a gig saddle and english tugs, no patent, just plain black leather, lined with nylon at some key points and padded nicely at others and it is really nice quality for the price. Definatly will not be hitting the park until spring, I'm a nervous nilly and never like to do things until I am very very sure that they will go as planned. I will post some pics of Chester and his new cart and harness when I get a chance!