Sorry but more Treeless info please :)

[Auventera Two]

Ok, I'm about "this" close to ordering a Treeless, but I'd like some final bits of info before I jump off the cliff.

I've noticed some treeless saddles such as Bob Marshalls have no gullet. Others like the Barefoots, do have a gullet. I'm assuming that having the gullet is the better way to go?? Sorry but the look of the BM Sports saddles doesn't do anything for me. Looks like a fancy bareback pad - for a thousand bucks.

I've read several accounts of horses having dry spots and white hairs caused by treeless saddles. Okay, pardon me for being stupid, but how is this possible? If there is no tree, wouldn't the only place to cause pain be right under your butt bones? So why are these horses getting sore up in the withers?

My Arab is...um...energetic, to put it nicely. I'm a good rider, good balance, but she has dumped me twice on spinouts. She's faster than lighting, and doesn't have a bone in her body. She can fold in half and floss her teeth with her tail hair before I have time to yell Hail Mary. So, is a treeless just setting myself up for certain unavoidable doom?

Just for clarification - she's wide and flat, but she does have very nice withers. I can mount from the ground with a loose girth (I don't, but it's possible.)

I've read all the treeless threads with interest, but I'm honestly scared to actually order one. I'm looking at the Barefoot Cheyenne with the 165 pad, and the whole shebang. Thanks so much! :)

[rideapaso]

Rather than ordering a saddle, why don't you demo one first? I believe most of the saddle dealers now offer demos on most of their saddles. If you are undecided, that might be the way to go. Personally, I love my Barefoot Cheyenne and am thinking of adding a Barefoot Tahoe to my collection.

[Guilherme]

White hairs are generally caused by excessive pressure. Whether it's caused by a poorly fitting rigid tree saddle or a saddle that fails to effectively distribute weight the end result is the same.

Before you part with any money get ahold of one and ride it for a while. I'll bet a dollar to a donut that you'll have a sore backed horse as I've yet to see one of these rigs that effectively distribute weight.

G.

[saratoga]

i would go ahead and order one. I like my Cheyenne- doesnt have a gullet though (maybe the newer ones do). I dont think they are less secure than treed saddles. I dont think there is any problem with "weight distribution"- maybe if you were a huge person and sat like a ton of bricks, but my horse never has a sore back. I do always use a really good pad though. (I like Equipedic.) My saddle came with a Grandeur pad but I didnt care for it. As far as the pressure points, even though there is no tree there is usually a rigid pommel in front and I suppose that could cause fit problems or pressure problems.

Just give it a try, I like mine, personally I think a good saddle is a good saddle regardless if it has a tree or not but many people swear by them as the only saddle they'd ever use.

[Phyxius]

I have the Barefoot London. No gullet though. I use a skito pad and I've not had any problems with sore backs, dry spots, etc. And, my second ride in this saddle was a 4 hour trail ride.

I have a friend who rides only with treeless Bob Marshall saddles. She's never had a problem either.

I love my treeless and my skito. :):yes:

[Romantic Rider]

I'm looking for a treeless saddle too, and thinking about along the lines you are A2. I ride in a Wintec Endurance saddle right now, and I love it. It fits my big Anglo fine, but I need something for my tubby little Arab mare. I wanted something treeless, because I dont' think I could find a treed saddle that would fit her well, and not be huge. She's small and short-backed. But... she has absolutely no withers at all, and like you described yours, is very energetic and extremely quick. I rode in my sister's treeless saddle, and felt like I had zero stability. Any time she spooked I felt like the saddle was going to come off, and when she was wild, well, I might as well have been bareback. So.... I like the idea of not having a tree to pinch her fat little withers, but I'm not thrilled with paying big bucks for a glorified bareback pad. I don't suppose there are any compromises around?

[sublimequine]

I'm looking for a treeless saddle too, and thinking about along the lines you are A2. I ride in a Wintec Endurance saddle right now, and I love it. It fits my big Anglo fine, but I need something for my tubby little Arab mare. I wanted something treeless, because I dont' think I could find a treed saddle that would fit her well, and not be huge. She's small and short-backed. But... she has absolutely no withers at all, and like you described yours, is very energetic and extremely quick. I rode in my sister's treeless saddle, and felt like I had zero stability. Any time she spooked I felt like the saddle was going to come off, and when she was wild, well, I might as well have been bareback. So.... I like the idea of not having a tree to pinch her fat little withers, but I'm not thrilled with paying big bucks for a glorified bareback pad. I don't suppose there are any compromises around?

Duett Saddles: http://www.duettsaddles.com/

Thorowgood Saddles: http://www.thorowgood.com/

I can vouch for the Thorowgoods myself. I have a Griffin Broadback (the name says it all :lol: ), and it fits my tank QH like it was custom made for her. :)

[Shermy]

Perhaps it takes you a couple of rides to get used it a treeless. I have the Cheyenne and love it. I actually feel extremely secure. I did a weekend long De-Spooking clinic this summer. A horse in front of us freaked out on a smoke bomb.

My horse reacted, and did a huge spin out. I have no idea how, but I was able to stay on him. My point is that if that my Barefoot Cheyenne was not just as secure as a "regular" saddle, I would have gone off. It really was a major blowup from my horse.

I think you should do a demo on the Cheyenne. That way if you dont like it, you arent out much money.

I am considering adding a Barefoot Sierra to my saddle collection down the road.

I LOVE my treeless!

[Huntertwo]

I would ask to try a demo first. Before I bought my B.M. the rep. sent me a demo. They always don't have them available, but it is worth a try.

Then again, they hold their value quite well and you could always sell it on Ebay or Tacktrader. Just a thought.

[Auventera Two]

I talked to a Barefoot Rep and they said they don't actually do demos. You buy the saddle, then have 30 days to return it if you don't like it. You pay a restocking fee, and shipping though.

I rode an Arab in a Bob Marshall sport saddle and it was extremely comfortable, and felt secure, but honestly, it's just a 1,000 dollar bareback pad - so no thank you. I was looking at those Hilason sport saddles, but of course you get what you pay for......

[winona]

I have to agree....try it first or at least have the option of a return policy. I have never felt so secure as in my treeless (Torsion standard). I think its that I can feel the horse before she spins or spooks? I have stayed on and not even realized what was happening until it was over. I know that people have had some problems finding the perfect treeless for their needs...just like anything else.

You need to get a good pad that gives spine clearance or you will have pressure sores over the spine....I use a Skito and so far so good. Wouldn't a poor rider create pressure points by riding crooked in any saddle???

Not sure about the gullet thing. And as far as comparing them to a bareback pad....to me that is the whole purpose. I want to be next to my horse, not floating over her. I ride 4-5 hours several days in a row and love my saddle. I had bought many other treed saddles and could barely tolerate 3 hours of riding.

Good luck!!

[chicamuxen1]

Actually, the BMSS is one of the most stabile treeless saddles made and distribute the riders weight better than most. The big D rings that the stirrup straps are hung from are attached to the saddle by wide nylon webbing that is stitched in a Y shape to the body of the saddle and the front pommel and the rear cantle. Every time you stand in the stirrups your weight is spread out from the front to the rear of the saddle.

The BMSS is also unique in that the body of the saddle is actually contoured. Go to: http://loristack.com/bobmarshall.htm and take a look at the top line of the seat. I've ridden lot's of horses with average backs, with a plain wool saddle pad, no inserts and has a nice dry strip down the center of the back ( not pressure points!) because the saddle never toughed the spinal area and caused sweat.

Look at: http://loristack.com/images/barefootbeau.jpg and you will see a saddle that has the same construction of many treeless saddle. The body of the saddle is basicly a flat bareback pad. some mfgrs have added foam inserts to creat a gullet but most have done nothing to distribute the riders weight on the stirrups. The Sensation has added a plastic piece to improve the problem of the stirrup weight causing dry spots.

I have ridden BMSSs for years, took a bit of getting used to at the start because I was used to english saddles. But now they feel like home to me. I also have a Sensation treeless that is very comfy for me, gives me the english saddle feel, but does give my horse dry spots right under the stirrup attachement. Hopefully I can fix that with a beefed up pad. Oh, the Sensation does roll much more easily than the BMSS by the way. Also the BMSS is sturdy, will last forever and then resell at a very good price.

That's the thing with treeless saddles, you need to use the right pad for your saddle and your horse and your type of riding. But this is true for most saddles anyway if you ride long hours.

If the vendor you contacted doesn't have demo saddles then contact someone else. There are lots of vendors now and most do have demo saddles.


chicamuxen

[Auventera Two]

Thanks for the info, very much appreciated! :) So the Bob Marshall SS, having no spine clearance is not a problem? That's what turned me off about them. Do the Skito pads provide the spine clearance? So either way - the pad, or the saddle have to have a gullet, right?

[chicamuxen1]

I think you didn't understand what I wrot, it DOES have pretty good spine clearance but all of the treeless saddle are designed to be used with saddle pads that have inserts in them, usually open cell foam inserts. the saddle and the pad is a system. this is what is so great, if you have a horse that is built downhill then you get inserts for your pad that lifts the front of the saddle and the bendable treeless saddle forms nicely over the pad and your horse has a custome fitted saddle. Have a horse with a sway back? Get foam inserts that are thickest in the center and taper to the pommel and cantle. Dippy back area is filled with foam, treeless saddle adapts and fits smoothly. Have a horse with a wide flat back? Get inserts from Skito (they have the best variety of inserts) or trim your own inserts so the inserts are thickest at the edge nearest the spine and taper thinner down under your thighs. Instant twist. This is the perfect fix for those people that complain that they sat on a flat backed horse in a treeless saddle and it was just toooo wiiiiiddddeeeee!!!!! Whiners! Fix it!!!! Using a foam insert pad allows you to cut and shape the pad to change the saddle fit. I've done it several times for different horses.

chicamuxen

[Huntertwo]

A2, are you looking for a Western Endurance? I have one, plus the skito pad and I find there is plenty of spine clearance.

Here is the rep I bought mine from. She did have a demo to try, tried it and called in an order that same day. :)
www.sportsaddle.com (http://www.sportsaddle.com)

[Auventera Two]

Well, after much deliberation, sleepless nights, and hair pulling, I've decided to order the Bob Marshall Sports Saddle. I've read so many good things about them and I did ride in a BM western saddle and really loved the feel. I just have to save a little more money and then I hope to have it by spring for the next endurance season.

[Huntertwo]

I think you'll like it. In fact I just sold mine on Ebay last night. And I received 4 emails today from people asking me to let them know if the deal falls through and I relist it. They really hold their value well, so if you don't like it, you can always resell it.

I sold mine because my mare is mutton withered and it just slid to much, so I bought the Abetta Endurance.