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View Full Version : proposed rule changes: # 2 dress codes



canyonoak
Nov. 7, 2007, 12:15 PM
<< Riders through First Level may wear half chaps, gaiters, black/brown leggings matching colors of boots, to be made of smooth leather or leather-like material.>>


So this is like--riders at First and below--that's one sport, get as many as possible.
Riders 2nd and above--that's where it gets serious and needs a real dress cose.

Im not saying bad/good, just saying my perspective here.

<< Extra proposal : whips-- whips will return to 47.2 inches or 120 cm as they used to be.>>

War Admiral
Nov. 7, 2007, 12:19 PM
Hm, not sure how I feel about this one. I can see both sides. Be interesting to see what happens. My gut instinct is that it will NOT pass. If they'd made it for Intro only, maybe...???

Sandy M
Nov. 7, 2007, 12:21 PM
The thing is, some of th emore expensive gaiter/boot combinations are very hard to tell from regular boots and look quit enice, as opposed to the sueded Tredstep type which are very useful, but not "fancy" enough for showing. Since they specify "smooth leather," I think it MIGHT pass.

cuatx55
Nov. 7, 2007, 12:25 PM
Why can't people just buy boots? I love my half chaps and I'm all for getting more people involved, but one needs to respect the traditions. I think there should be the same dress code for all the levels.

Tiki
Nov. 7, 2007, 12:28 PM
Well, cool on the whips. I've never bought the new ones so my old ones will still be good. Kind of like bell bottoms recycling in fashion or something.

appychik
Nov. 7, 2007, 12:44 PM
I guess I'm among the few that would like this. I ride with Tredstep Galloway system. The boot and the half chap fit inside one another, you honestly can't tell a difference. And, they are both smooth leather. Very nice. I've gotten quite a few compliments while wearing them too.

The main reason why I don't do tall boots is because (1) I'm very long legged [36" inseam] and would need custom boots (2) the cost - would be super spendy because of the need for customs (3) ankle support - I've got a very bad ankle, both actually, and I want guaranteed support.

So, I'd love this. Being able to show at recognized shows with my Tredstep system in place.

Janet
Nov. 7, 2007, 12:54 PM
They have been permitted in US Eventing Dressage for about a year, and for FEI Eventing Dressage for even longer.

Coreene
Nov. 7, 2007, 12:55 PM
<< Riders through First Level may wear half chaps, gaiters, black/brown leggings matching colors of boots, to be made of smooth leather or leather-like material.>>


So this is like--riders at First and below--that's one sport, get as many as possible.
Riders 2nd and above--that's where it gets serious and needs a real dress cose.

Im not saying bad/good, just saying my perspective here.

<< Extra proposal : whips-- whips will return to 47.2 inches or 120 cm as they used to be.>>Well, hell's bells, why not just dumb it down completely and let them ride in jeans and tennies? :dead: I hope this does not pass. Oh my gawd, it's just like when they dumbed down hunters to include such stellar divisions as low low ammy crossrail long stirrup cavaletti.

petitefilly
Nov. 7, 2007, 12:59 PM
Why can't people just buy boots? I love my half chaps and I'm all for getting more people involved, but one needs to respect the traditions. I think there should be the same dress code for all the levels.


Ahh, some people only dabble in dressage. They want to go to one show a year, or two, and do some *ring* work. Get out and have a fun day. All is not serious for all people. Why not let them wear half chaps, they are perfectly lovely in the boot shape, and after all it is the horse we are judging not apparel. Is it not better to have a great ride than a great pair of boots?

STF
Nov. 7, 2007, 01:02 PM
Ok, whatever.......... whatever floats their boats.
Maybe making it easier and more financial easier for some to "get there feet wet!?"

carolprudm
Nov. 7, 2007, 01:02 PM
Why can't people just buy boots? I love my half chaps and I'm all for getting more people involved, but one needs to respect the traditions. I think there should be the same dress code for all the levels.
lol, I think I ride better without tall boots. I like the feel and sensitivity

RiverOaksFarm
Nov. 7, 2007, 01:32 PM
I think I'm with Coreene. I hate the idea of half-chaps, I don't even like to see people schooling in them, maybe I'm more of a DQ than I realized :p.

If they want to attract more people and make things easier and more affordable, maybe they could find a way to make things a little cheaper, like all of the different membership fees and horse registrations etc.?

Besides, I can see it now, soon there will be a thread asking if it is okay to wear a tophat or a derby with halfchaps, lol.:winkgrin:

Cooper
Nov. 7, 2007, 01:39 PM
I don't see any problem with this, the half chaps make it easier for someone to give the dressage show thing a try, without having to invest in an expensive pair of boots.

What is wrong with that?

dwblover
Nov. 7, 2007, 01:41 PM
I just can't agree with that. I'm by NO means a DQ, but I believe that half chaps should be saved for the schooling shows. If you are going to show up at a recognized dressage show, you should be wearing your "Sunday best". I think it does come down to tradition. And with all of the fees and organization registrations, etc. boots are really the least of my expense worries! Now it's not like I would scoff if someone showed up in half chaps. If they change the rule, then that's that. I would not be upset, I would just choose to continue to wear my dress boots.

LD1129
Nov. 7, 2007, 01:43 PM
If they want to attract more people and make things easier and more affordable, maybe they could find a way to make things a little cheaper, like all of the different membership fees and horse registrations etc.?


I completely agree with this statement. I kinda like the idea of looking formal for recognized shows. Half chaps are for schooling shows :yes:

Gayla
Nov. 7, 2007, 01:44 PM
I think a great deal of the pleasure that some people gain from dressage is the "stuff" that they collect in the process. The more stuff you have and the more expensive it is the better you fit in.
If you care about the sport and you care about bringing in people that would otherwise feel priced out then you would be for this change. If a person is not sure that they want to "do" dressage but would like to try it out might come if they could get the outfit together for less than a paycheck. If showing is about good riding and correct training of horses then who cares if people wear half chaps?

Gayla
Nov. 7, 2007, 01:45 PM
If they want to attract more people and make things easier and more affordable, maybe they could find a way to make things a little cheaper, like all of the different membership fees and horse registrations etc.?


Although, I have to agree with this statement too. It should be a natural first approach to cutting costs.

CAJumper
Nov. 7, 2007, 01:52 PM
Blech - I hope that does not pass.

As far as people wanting to dabble in dressage and not take it so seriously - that's what schooling shows are for! It does not take a ton of money (relative to the horse world, of course) to wear decent show clothes for a recognized competition.

Ilex
Nov. 7, 2007, 01:54 PM
Welllllllllll........

I don't like 'traditional' half chaps.........

BUT...

The leather gaiter and boot system is very nice....

and IMHO it DOES NOT distract the picture from a good horse and rider team.

Cheers...Tami

Lambie Boat
Nov. 7, 2007, 02:00 PM
I KNOW!

why don't they just have Poor People Dressage Shows and Rich People Dressage Shows?

oh, but I guess then they'd have to make divisions for Grade Horses that cost less than $1,000 and Imported German Horses that cost over $100,000.00

claire
Nov. 7, 2007, 02:02 PM
If they want to attract more people and make things easier and more affordable, maybe they could find a way to make things a little cheaper, like all of the different membership fees and horse registrations etc.?


Ding! Ding! Ding! :D

Most people who are "trying out Dressage" are doing schooling shows anyway.

The $$$ involved in buying a pair of boots is a drop in the bucket compared to the $$$$ of doing a Recognized vs. a Schooling Dressage show. :confused:

Petstorejunkie
Nov. 7, 2007, 02:11 PM
Well, hell's bells, why not just dumb it down completely and let them ride in jeans and tennies? :dead: I hope this does not pass. Oh my gawd, it's just like when they dumbed down hunters to include such stellar divisions as low low ammy crossrail long stirrup cavaletti.

I agree here. If it were up to me tall boots with zippers installed would be illegal. a dress boot or field boot DOES actually effect your riding ALOT. We didnt invent these tall boots to simply inconvenience people.
There is also a matter of respect. its a SHOW you SHOW OFF!!!! you wear your sunday best, you braid, you clip, everyone is clean neat and tidy.
If you want to get your feet wet, go to a schooling show.

appychik
Nov. 7, 2007, 02:16 PM
Never mind the photos (are somewhere around 5 years old) ... just looking at my boots, what's wrong with them?

http://pets.webshots.com/photo/1146664104048195726QGDXir?vhost=pets
http://pets.webshots.com/photo/1146664345048195726pvsgWn?vhost=pets

Here's another photo, a bit more recent... like 4 years ago:

http://pets.webshots.com/photo/1240787585048195726EyswhT

I hope that link works. Those are my Tredstep Galloway Gaiter system things... forget the whole name, as Tredstep isn't selling the exact model anymore. But, I think it looks tasteful and as other stated, the rider and horse as a harmonious pair are being judged, not turnout. (Cause it that was the case, I'd be docked for having hunter braids, a too short jacket and other things... :yes: )

Anyways, I guess I shouldn't complain too much. I don't do the recognized shows because there aren't too many in the area that are worthwhile. Plus, I don't have the income to support all those fees and, I'd need a new jacket. :winkgrin: I guess that's an excuse to buy more clothes...

About the whip though, as that was added after I originally posted, I think. I'd love to be able to go back to that length. I still have a whip that long too. Sure works well on the bigger horses.

SGray
Nov. 7, 2007, 02:20 PM
because it's a "tradition" has got to be one of the silliest ways to defend a rule in a SPORT -- we are not on a stage playing classical music for goodness sake although with the black jacket/white breeches you might think we head to the symphony after the show

mp
Nov. 7, 2007, 02:24 PM
Makes no difference to me. I have tall boots to show in, and switch between tall boots and half chaps for schooling, depending on how warm it is. (Who cares what the hell someone else wears when they school????)

Half chaps can look quite nice, if you have smooth leather ones and matching paddock boots. And I feel sorry for people who can't get a good fitting boot off the shelf. If you're short or heavy or have one leg that's much smaller than the other, you'll can have a helluva time finding reasonably priced tall boots to fit.

I guess I have to ask why not let us lower-level competitors wear half chaps? Anything below 2nd level isn't really dressage anyway, is it? ;)

Sandy M
Nov. 7, 2007, 02:52 PM
Why can't people just buy boots? I love my half chaps and I'm all for getting more people involved, but one needs to respect the traditions. I think there should be the same dress code for all the levels.

Well, I have a friend who while overweight is quite a good rider and took her 15.2 (short backed!) QH to PSG successfully and got her bronze. She had a LOT of difficulty getting boots to fit (had customs/had elastic put in tops, etc.). She probably would have loved to be able to ride in her gaiters, which are much easier to fit.

J Lav
Nov. 7, 2007, 02:55 PM
The leather gaiters and matching short boots have been allowed here in the UK for a while now and the good quality ones do look very smart and it's almost impossible to tell the difference from a long boot.

We don't have the relaxed attitude you do to schooling shows here though. Our equivalent (unaffiliated) are usually run strictly to British Dressage rules including dress code so you still have to wear black/blue/hacking jacket, white or cream jods, boots etc etc.

Appychik, those treadstep boots and gaiters you have are called the Galway system and they are still one of the most popular set ups here along with the Ariat boots and Crowne Pro leather chaps.

Coreene
Nov. 7, 2007, 03:01 PM
Well, I have a friend who while overweight is quite a good rider and took her 15.2 (short backed!) QH to PSG successfully and got her bronze. She had a LOT of difficulty getting boots to fit (had customs/had elastic put in tops, etc.). She probably would have loved to be able to ride in her gaiters, which are much easier to fit.Have her check out the Womanly Sized Riders, Unite! thread on Off Course. A wealth of shopping info for the abbondanza amazon.

As for Aunt Esther, I have it from the source herself, and she said "This it be wrong!" But I think she was having a Willem moment with the phraseology. :lol:

Ja Da Dee
Nov. 7, 2007, 03:24 PM
The leather gaiters and matching short boots have been allowed here in the UK for a while now and the good quality ones do look very smart and it's almost impossible to tell the difference from a long boot.

We don't have the relaxed attitude you do to schooling shows here though. Our equivalent (unaffiliated) are usually run strictly to British Dressage rules including dress code so you still have to wear black/blue/hacking jacket, white or cream jods, boots etc etc.

Appychik, those treadstep boots and gaiters you have are called the Galway system and they are still one of the most popular set ups here along with the Ariat boots and Crowne Pro leather chaps.


Hey, if it's good enough for the UK, then it should be good enough for the US.

Maybe it's because I'm an eventer, or maybe it's because I had a pickle of a time finding boots that fit and were reasonably priced, but I think this is a great idea. There are people who may have had an accident that resulted in one leg being temporary swollen, or are coming off a pregnancy where they puffed up like a balloon, and don't yet fit into their Konings. Do they need to spend tons of money for boots that fit, or should they be able to go out and pick up a set of nice full leather half chaps and hit the show ring?

Dressage Art
Nov. 7, 2007, 03:28 PM
I hope this rule will pass and give more choices to people who concentrate on the quality of their riding not on $800 boots, $500 brow bands, $300 jackets, $300 breeches, $5000 saddles and $300 top hats.

I do always ride in boots myself and will continue to do so, but I am for choices. Currently we have only obligatory black tall boots.

Kimberlee
Nov. 7, 2007, 03:37 PM
I have to say that I would prefer to see someone riding in fitting halfchap 'things', than badly fitting tall boots. I.E. the guy in our barn does not have tall boots, because his older brother just ended up growing to something like 6'2". So, why would his parents buy him boots at this point when he is still growing?

I understand the whole tradition aspect (me being the nit pick about everyone braiding for shows), but sometimes it makes sense to have another option for people who have a different set of circumstances. My $0.02 worth ;)

jgrass
Nov. 7, 2007, 04:00 PM
I think if we totally stuck to tradition then only men in the armed forces, in uniform, would be allowed to compete. Certainly not young ladies... and ASTRIDE! What a scandal!

I have enough to worry about with my horse, my riding and my turnout to spend any time worrying about other folks...

In addition, I doubt I'm alone in having a leg size that yo-yos up and down so much that the boots that fit me in April don't fit in August and may fit again in November.

tangledweb
Nov. 7, 2007, 04:22 PM
Well, hell's bells, why not just dumb it down completely and let them ride in jeans and tennies? :dead: I hope this does not pass.

It worries me that I cannot tell who in this thread is serious, and who is doing a cartoon-like parody of a DQ.

You all realize that short boots are legal, right? I bet seeing them would make your head spin.

The number of people who care so much what other people wear while competing makes me want to come to a show wearing short boots, a bright green top hat (because the color is not specified), pale pink jodhpurs (because they just have to be a light color, maybe a blaze orange stock (because the color is not specified). I'd probably wear a black jacket, just so I did not get into a subjective argument over what colors are "conservative", but I would make sure that the sleeves were about 4 inches too short for me so you could see that my shirt had been stolen from a colorblind rodeo clown.

SGray
Nov. 7, 2007, 04:23 PM
luv the way you think TangledWeb

Coreene
Nov. 7, 2007, 04:25 PM
It worries me that I cannot tell who in this thread is serious, and who is doing a cartoon-like parody of a DQ.

You all realize that short boots are legal, right? I bet seeing them would make your head spin.

The number of people who care so much what other people wear while competing makes me want to come to a show wearing short boots, a bright green top hat (because the color is not specified), pale pink jodhpurs (because they just have to be a light color, maybe a blaze orange stock (because the color is not specified). I'd probably wear a black jacket, just so I did not get into a subjective argument over what colors are "conservative", but I would make sure that the sleeves were about 4 inches too short for me so you could see that my shirt had been stolen from a colorblind rodeo clown.Well, given that you don't know me, you make one hell of an assumption. But please, carry on, looks as if you're having fun with it. ;)

Renae
Nov. 7, 2007, 04:28 PM
Just to play devil's advocate:

The current rules allow a rider to wear jodhpur pants and jodhpur boots. If you are ones who can not afford tall boots for dressage shows why not use that option? That is even cheaper than having to buy half-chaps.

SGray
Nov. 7, 2007, 04:47 PM
I think if we totally stuck to tradition then only men in the armed forces, in uniform, would be allowed to compete. Certainly not young ladies... and ASTRIDE! What a scandal!........

good one

Heinz 57
Nov. 7, 2007, 04:52 PM
Unless you are uncommonly shaped, you can get a usable pair of field or dress boots out of the Dover catalog for about $100. Cheapy field boots, $74.95, cheapy dress boots, $119.95.

And I don't mean 'uncommonly shaped' in an insulting way. I'm uncommonly shaped.

Happy Feet
Nov. 7, 2007, 05:01 PM
I think I'm with Coreene. I hate the idea of half-chaps, I don't even like to see people schooling in them, maybe I'm more of a DQ than I realized :p.

If they want to attract more people and make things easier and more affordable, maybe they could find a way to make things a little cheaper, like all of the different membership fees and horse registrations etc.?

Besides, I can see it now, soon there will be a thread asking if it is okay to wear a tophat or a derby with halfchaps, lol.:winkgrin:

I didn't get to read ALL of the replies but DITTO to this one!!!!
If they want to make it more affordable, there are great ways like lowering entry fees, membership fees, horse membership fees, etc.... When I first read this, I thought it was a joke, I mean a real joke. Then I realized it was an actual proposal for a real rule change. This is just terrible.
I really hope this doesn't pass.
Edited to add:
There are schooling shows. If you only "dabble" in dressage that might be a perfect place to start, or if you don't want to spend $$ on dress boots when you only where chaps, again, schooling shows are a great place. I guess my questio nis WHY? IS it for $$, or ease, or to seem less of a "snobby" sport? Like stated earlier, there are better ways to make shows more affordable, and dress boots don't have to be that expensive, and what can I say maybe dressage is a bit snobby - but allowing half chaps isn't going to change that!! Actually I'd really feel sorry for the person who reads that and goes to a show with their half chaps. I have a feeling the judges wouldn't look favorably on it, and I bet they'd be sure to hear snickers in the stable about it!

SillyHorse
Nov. 7, 2007, 05:10 PM
luv the way you think TangledWeb
So do I! :lol:

claire
Nov. 7, 2007, 05:21 PM
As for Aunt Esther, I have it from the source herself, and she said "This it be wrong!" But I think she was having a Willem moment with the phraseology.

:lol: :lol: :lol:

Or Aunt Esther has talents as a medium and was channeling Willem! :winkgrin:

mp
Nov. 7, 2007, 05:22 PM
Unless you are uncommonly shaped, you can get a usable pair of field or dress boots out of the Dover catalog for about $100. Cheapy field boots, $74.95, cheapy dress boots, $119.95.

And I don't mean 'uncommonly shaped' in an insulting way. I'm uncommonly shaped.

Depends on your definition of "usable." Those boots feel like they're made of cardboard. I went the el cheapo route for my first pair. What a waste of money.

If someone is on a budget, try eBay or sites that have ads for used tack and clothing (like this one!). You have to know exactly what measurements you need, and be sure the seller knows how to measure. But if you're patient, you can get a very good deal ... like a very nice pair of used Dehners for $80. And I didn't have to break them in, either. ;)

Coreene
Nov. 7, 2007, 05:26 PM
:lol: :lol: :lol:

Or Aunt Esther has talents as a medium and was channeling Willem! :winkgrin:Aunt Esther loved to ride Willem. She was one of the few people he would not put into the dirt. So, yes, I am sure they are joined in some spiritual way. :cool:

SGray
Nov. 7, 2007, 05:37 PM
I'd like the riders represent the U.S. on the Olympic or Pan Am Games Teams to be wearing really nice boots --- other than that, really doesn't matter what riders wear as long as it is serviceable and safe

flyracing
Nov. 7, 2007, 05:44 PM
I'd like the riders represent the U.S. on the Olympic or Pan Am Games Teams to be wearing really nice boots --- other than that, really doesn't matter what riders wear as long as it is serviceable and safe

Excaclty. I'm all for "tradition"... I mean current fad, but if some wants or needs to ride in a two piece boot (you do realize that is the only difference right?) thats just fine. Now if they proposed to include suede, cotton, or wool boots I'd start getting a little bit more worried.

Come on guys, not all 'unusual' leg shaped people can afford custom boots to show training level. Oh thats right, those people should be only allowed to attend schooling shows, besides they might beat us:no:

kelliope
Nov. 7, 2007, 06:26 PM
Why do people care so much about what others choose wear? Me? I say wear whatever you want. I will wear what I want. May the best horse win.

Some of these responses remind me of a great DQ joke -

Q. What does a DQ use for birth control?

A. Her personality

dressurpferd01
Nov. 7, 2007, 06:36 PM
I agree here. If it were up to me tall boots with zippers installed would be illegal. a dress boot or field boot DOES actually effect your riding ALOT. We didnt invent these tall boots to simply inconvenience people.

Well, EXCUSE me... You must never have had to deal with a ridiculously high arch. Without a zipper in my dress boots, I couldn't even begin to get them on, I'd be relegated to field boots, which I'm not a fan of for dressage. Really, zippers are required for some of us.

Eireamon
Nov. 7, 2007, 06:57 PM
We are the same as the UK here in NZ. Matching half chaps and boots of leather are acceptable.
I have 3 pair of top boots but often wear my half chaps and boots as I find them more comfortable.
Custom Boots are not an option here. We simply donot have any custom boot makers so people with unusual sizes are short of choice. If you have extra short legs, thick calves or extra long legs chances are you won't find a boot that fits very well and half chaps may be the best answer.

I don't really get what the deal is. You could not even tell when I am on a horse that my half chaps are not top boots.

And also like the UK schooling classes have the same dress code as registered competition.

Renae
Nov. 7, 2007, 07:22 PM
no they are not.


Yes, they are. Just wearing short jodhpur boots and jodhpur pants is legal. DR120.1 The dress code for training through 4th levels... breeches or jodhpurs, boots or jodhpur boots...

specialops
Nov. 7, 2007, 07:24 PM
Schooling shows are where you get your feet wet and decide if you want to commit to the expense of the recognized show. If USDF wants to do something to enhance the sport I would suggest getting rid of the coats for everything but FEI and allow either a Navy or Black fitted vest be worn. They can even keep the dreaded white breeches but seriously....the coat needs to go. It is just not practical through the majority of the season. At least make vests an option. I don't see a problem with tall boots at all. You can find some very inexpensive tall boots even if they are field boots. Its better than random chaps.

Equibrit
Nov. 7, 2007, 07:30 PM
Isn't a schooling show the place for this kind of gettup?

ESG
Nov. 7, 2007, 07:41 PM
Well, hell's bells, why not just dumb it down completely and let them ride in jeans and tennies? :dead: I hope this does not pass. Oh my gawd, it's just like when they dumbed down hunters to include such stellar divisions as low low ammy crossrail long stirrup cavaletti.

Exactly. :yes: If you're not going to dress the part, don't show. I think this is a very, very bad idea. :no:

As for the whip rule - does anyone know why the legal length was reduced, to begin with? I mean, really, 4.2" is a very odd difference to make. WTF? :confused:

akor
Nov. 7, 2007, 07:42 PM
I think it's an OK idea. I don't see a problem with it. To me, this isn't dumbing down. Dumbing down would be a walk only class.
I know some people deterred from showing by the dress code. They aren't going to go to a rate show anyway, let them have fun in the local schooling shows.

I am a traditionalist, and wear tall boots for shows, lessons, and clinics. But, paddock boots provide better ankle support, IMO.

snoopy
Nov. 7, 2007, 07:43 PM
[QUOTE=Petstorejunkie;2787876]I agree here. If it were up to me tall boots with zippers installed would be illegal. a dress boot or field boot DOES actually effect your riding ALOT. We didnt invent these tall boots to simply inconvenience people.
QUOTE]


Actually the zip in boots has made boots more afforable...I used to have to buy custom and now with the zip I am able to by off the rack for a fraction of the cost and the fit is incredible.
I think as long as it is neat and tidy and the look gives an all in one appearance than I find that respectable attire. One can talk of tradition but sport and its "equipment" adapt and evolve.

ESG
Nov. 7, 2007, 07:46 PM
I don't see any problem with this, the half chaps make it easier for someone to give the dressage show thing a try, without having to invest in an expensive pair of boots.

"Giving the dressage thing a try" is what schooling shows are for. And, as for an "expensive" pair of boots, there are plenty of options for a vast combination of sizes that are cheaper than most half chaps.



What is wrong with that?

It's tacky. :no:

snoopy
Nov. 7, 2007, 07:55 PM
[QUOTE=ESG;2788768]"Giving the dressage thing a try" is what schooling shows are for. And, as for an "expensive" pair of boots, there are plenty of options for a vast combination of sizes that are cheaper than most half chaps.
QUOTE]


Know THAT I will agree with....Although I do not particularly care for the half chap thing in general and do not discriminate, I often wonder when some boots are indeed cheaper that some do not go down that route. If "I" can get boots that fit like custom and at a decent price....ANYONE can...and I mean ANYONE....

If you need a mental image,,,think the Valasic pickle stork!!!:(

class
Nov. 7, 2007, 07:59 PM
so what if you think it's tacky? i think paint horses are tacky and i think sparkly browbands are tacky. but i only need to worry about either of those things when someone tries to force me to ride a paint or buy a sparkly browband. get over yourselves and stop looking at other people's footwear.

Equibrit
Nov. 7, 2007, 08:10 PM
Well - it's not just about footwear is it ?

linquest
Nov. 7, 2007, 08:16 PM
I support the rule change. I've looked in many tack stores, including consignment shops, in 4 different states over the last 3 years, and haven't been able to find a pair of dress boots that fit me for under $200.00. Thank goodness I was able to get used field boots that fit, but that manufacturer is no more :no:

I don't buy the "if you're not serious about dressage/can't show often, then stick to schooling shows" argument either. Dressage is about TRAINING, right? Isn't that where the emphasis should be? Saying to someone who can't afford the time/money to show often that they ought to be relegated to unrecognized shows only is...well, elitist. And if someone's on a really tight budget but IS serious about dressage, it seems logical to me that they would want those few shows each year they can afford to be recognized competitions.

soloudinhere
Nov. 7, 2007, 08:26 PM
You know, it costs just as much to buy a properly fitting pair of smooth leather half chaps and short boots as it does to buy a reasonable pair of tall boots. The tredstep galway is $170 just for the gaiter, boot aside. The cost argument doesn't REALLY float in this case. Good fit costs money, whether it's in a tall boot or a half chap/ short boot system.

Personally, I can almost always tell when someone is wearing half chaps and short boots and they don't look as nice. Part of the virtue of the tall boot is it provides a uniform stiffness and surface as you apply aids. You lose this with a half chap and short boot.

Plus, I see a lot of this at unrecognized shows and it just says "lazy" to me when I see it. Regardless of the reasons for wearing them, they look like you couldn't be bothered to find an appropriately fitting boot and put it on, like you threw together your show outfit. it is rare that the setup REALLY looks as good as a properly fitted tall boot. Good quality semicustoms are not that expensive, for those who feel they can't fit a stock boot. By the time you show at a recognized show, I'd hope that you were serious enough to invest $400 in a properly fitting boot.

pintopiaffe
Nov. 7, 2007, 08:34 PM
have to say I'm a little surprized and dissapointed at the vehemence... some of us can't afford good tall boots.

And good paddocks with half chaps can provide much more support than cheap boots.

Some people have injuries and/or body shapes which don't allow for 'real' boots either.

Really, I'm saddened and surprized by the responses. I am all for tradition. I am all for upper levels being very traditional. Maybe even for rated finals/regionals etc. But heck, for just a rated show, if I look my best... :sigh:

mjhco
Nov. 7, 2007, 08:54 PM
You know, it costs just as much to buy a properly fitting pair of smooth leather half chaps and short boots as it does to buy a reasonable pair of tall boots. The tredstep galway is $170 just for the gaiter, boot aside. The cost argument doesn't REALLY float in this case. Good fit costs money, whether it's in a tall boot or a half chap/ short boot system.

Personally, I can almost always tell when someone is wearing half chaps and short boots and they don't look as nice. Part of the virtue of the tall boot is it provides a uniform stiffness and surface as you apply aids. You lose this with a half chap and short boot.

Plus, I see a lot of this at unrecognized shows and it just says "lazy" to me when I see it. Regardless of the reasons for wearing them, they look like you couldn't be bothered to find an appropriately fitting boot and put it on, like you threw together your show outfit. it is rare that the setup REALLY looks as good as a properly fitted tall boot. Good quality semicustoms are not that expensive, for those who feel they can't fit a stock boot. By the time you show at a recognized show, I'd hope that you were serious enough to invest $400 in a properly fitting boot.

Awwww Heck. You would probably b*tch about my outrageously expensive custom FIELD boots that I compete in.

Get over it.

Peggy
Nov. 7, 2007, 09:14 PM
Exactly. :yes: If you're not going to dress the part, don't show. I think this is a very, very bad idea. :no:

As for the whip rule - does anyone know why the legal length was reduced, to begin with? I mean, really, 4.2" is a very odd difference to make. WTF? :confused:
Whip length was originally changed to match the FEI rule. The odd difference to which you refer is due to the conversion b/w the metric system used by the vast majority of the world and the "English" system of weights and measures used by Liberia, Myanmar and the United States.:lol:

I'm probably not eligible to comment on the dress code b/c I rode thru 4th level and got a Bronze medal in Vogel field boots. On a TB. But maybe those facts are sufficiently countered by the fact that the boots were custom and didn't have zippers. But, in any event, I don't have a problem with it.

carolprudm
Nov. 7, 2007, 09:19 PM
It worries me that I cannot tell who in this thread is serious, and who is doing a cartoon-like parody of a DQ.

You all realize that short boots are legal, right? I bet seeing them would make your head spin.

Yup, I don't need half chaps or tall boots. My $600+ DerDaus reside in the closet and I ride in Ariat paddocks. I buy long breeches, much easier than finding jods.

RegentLion
Nov. 7, 2007, 09:29 PM
I don't feel qualified to comment here... since I don't ride dressage (just Eventing Dressage on occasion).

However, I can see both sides of this issue.

Really, I have short legs (SHORT SHORT SHORT) and wide calves and TINY feet. (Size 5). I am done growing. I ended up getting a pair of customs for $270 and they are exactly how I wanted them (field boots w/zippers). My hubby got some dressage boot types (w/zippers) for the same price. We could have gotten them in several kinds of leather/soles/zip/lace/whatever.

You just need to know where to look.

I think that the right combo of chaps/boots (these garter systems or whatever) can look quite nice for schooling at home, but when I looked at them they were quite pricey.

I don't think that the proposed rule change is going to save people much money, in the end. Maybe it is good for those w/ankle injuries or something..... :confused:

I guess I don't see the point of this proposed rule change, however I don't see it as Tacky more like disrespectful/lazy as some have mentioned. Kind of along the lines of NOT braiding.

I'm now showing English and Western Pleasure. On the APHA circuit from leadline and walk trot right up through the levels there are NO shortcuts. If you want to wear the "wrong" things or take the "cheaper" option, you simply DON'T go to the recognized shows--that is what some open shows are for. And as far as I know, many of the "wrong" and "cheaper" options are ALLOWED by the rule book---but no one is going to be seen as too cheap or too lazy to put out what it takes to make a GREAT picture.

soloudinhere
Nov. 7, 2007, 11:21 PM
Awwww Heck. You would probably b*tch about my outrageously expensive custom FIELD boots that I compete in.

Get over it.

Actually, I ride in semicustom field boots. I fractured my foot and since cannot ride with the boning in the back of dressage boots. But you're free to assume what you want.

I don't think schooling attire is appropriate to show in. I would feel like I was being disrespectful to the judge by wearing it.

Those who need them for an injury or some other extenuating circumstance can get a dispensation from the steward, as everyone who shows in other USEF divisions has to do. It's not difficult to get one if you truly need them.

Janet
Nov. 7, 2007, 11:49 PM
Those who need them for an injury or some other extenuating circumstance can get a dispensation from the steward, as everyone who shows in other USEF divisions has to do.
I do not think that is how it works.

JRG
Nov. 8, 2007, 06:07 AM
I am somewhat of a traditionalist. I have seen a lot of changes over the years some good, some bad. After all this time I still feel that this is a horse SHOW, you are showing off you and your horse to the best of your ability. It is the whole package you present.

I prefer the higher standards. I don't like the idea of lowering standards (which has been done in other diciplines) that are now being realised as somewhat of an error. I believe we should strive for higher standards instead of giving in to just reaching the bear minimum.

Traditional attire is a part of this sport and rather then changing it, I think it should be embraced.

soloudinhere
Nov. 8, 2007, 08:17 AM
I do not think that is how it works.

Yes it is. I rode my jumper at an A show with half chaps and short boots after my leg was cut open with a bot knife in a freak accident. Couldn't fit my bandaged leg in my boot, so I talked to the steward. Was given permission to ride in boots and half chaps.

Did the same thing when my broken foot was healing and I couldn't get it in a real boot.

see the rules as of 2004: Article 1920, pt 2: "Half chaps, shown at right, ARE NOT allowed in competition, except with a Dispensation Certificate."

SillyHorse
Nov. 8, 2007, 08:33 AM
have to say I'm a little surprized and dissapointed at the vehemence
So am I. I don't understand why people are so concerned with what OTHER people wear. It's not as though the rule would require you to ride in half chaps and paddies. Wear your custom Der Daus! Wear your custom Vogels! Wear your custom Dehners (like me!). Wear you half chaps and paddock boots!

ESG
Nov. 8, 2007, 08:58 AM
How 'bout just wearing proper attire? Why fix what isn't broken?

Janet
Nov. 8, 2007, 09:59 AM
Yes it is. I rode my jumper at an A show with half chaps and short boots after my leg was cut open with a bot knife in a freak accident. Couldn't fit my bandaged leg in my boot, so I talked to the steward. Was given permission to ride in boots and half chaps.

Did the same thing when my broken foot was healing and I couldn't get it in a real boot.

see the rules as of 2004: Article 1920, pt 2: "Half chaps, shown at right, ARE NOT allowed in competition, except with a Dispensation Certificate."
OK. Since you clearly want the gory details.

First, it doesn't make much sense to refer to 2004 rules.

The 2007 rule DR 120.10 says

10. Individuals holding Federation Dispensation Certificates may be allowed exceptions, i.e.; gloves not required if unable to wear them, half-chaps and black or brown riding shoes with heels. If dispensation for modified shoes or boots is given, safety stirrups are required. Riders may also be given dispensation for modified gloves, hand weights and arm belts. All exceptions to required dress must be listed on the rider’s Dispensation Certificate.

But you don't get a dispensation certificate "from the steward".

In the first place, dressage shows don't HAVE stewards, they have TDs, but you can't get a dispensation certificate from the TD either.

Applying for a dispensation certificate has a whole piece of the rule book itself (GR 821 in the 2007 rule book). You have to apply directly to the USEF

Applications for a dispensation Certificate or a ParaEquestrian Eligibility Certificate are obtained from the Federation and are reviewed on a continuing basis throughout the year.

In other disciplines, you may be able to get special permission from the TD or Steward. But in dressage, you need the official form from the USEF office.

Your experience with JUMPERS does not reflect the RULES for dressage.
In fact, there is no actual RULE in Jumping that says you have to wear tall boots, it is just customary, so you didn't NEED a dispensation .

SGray
Nov. 8, 2007, 10:00 AM
it's a SPORT - not high school prom

Kyzteke
Nov. 8, 2007, 10:06 AM
because it's a "tradition" has got to be one of the silliest ways to defend a rule in a SPORT -- we are not on a stage playing classical music for goodness sake although with the black jacket/white breeches you might think we head to the symphony after the show

Geeze -- if everybody is going to get their knickers in a twist over tradition, maybe they should pass a ruling that all the horses need to be TRAINED in the "traditional" (read: "classical") way.

That's more important that what you wear IMHO.

For the person who trains alot at home, but only wants to show 1-2 a year this makes perfect sense. ALOT of people don't want to spend $600+ for boots just to wear afew times a year.

mp
Nov. 8, 2007, 10:49 AM
Why do people care so much about what others choose wear? Me? I say wear whatever you want. I will wear what I want. May the best horse win.

Some of these responses remind me of a great DQ joke -

Q. What does a DQ use for birth control?

A. Her personality

:lol:

I was thinking of what a good friend said flashed through his mind when his wife (serious dressage competitor) told him she wanted a divorce:

Thought #1
"What a drag. I'm really gonna miss her."

Thought #2
"Thank god, I don't have to go to any more parties in Palm Beach and listen to all those boring, stick-up-the-ass DQs."

Dressage Art
Nov. 8, 2007, 11:09 AM
I just don't understand why we all care so much.
That's easy, it’s from psychology 101 class ;) - people generally care about things that they have lots of experience with: like clothes that we wear. Everybody has experience with that - so everybody has an opinion. Look at the other rule change thread - it's not so big b/c there are less riders who will be riding 3rd level and up - so less people are directly affected and thus less people care about that rule change. But we ALL wear boots or half chaps and can relate to that and have our opinions. Some people have strong opinions about everything, thus they have strong opinions about what other people wear as well. Also there is a difference in thinking ;) From research about monkeys: "Some primates attend only to what actions 'look like' when trying to understand what others are thinking. Some expect other individuals to perform the most rational action that they can, given the environmental obstacles that they face."

ThreeFigs
Nov. 8, 2007, 11:58 AM
I don't see any problem with this, the half chaps make it easier for someone to give the dressage show thing a try, without having to invest in an expensive pair of boots.

What is wrong with that?

I'm with Cooper. I'm all for making dressage more accessible to the everyday rider. And my Dansko half-chaps look spectacular. Hard to zip up, but spectacular.

appychik
Nov. 8, 2007, 12:00 PM
Appychik, those treadstep boots and gaiters you have are called the Galway system and they are still one of the most popular set ups here along with the Ariat boots and Crowne Pro leather chaps.

I knew it was something along those lines. Very comfortable too! Thanks for clarifying that for me, J Lav.

soloudinhere
Nov. 8, 2007, 12:12 PM
OK. Since you clearly want the gory details.

First, it doesn't make much sense to refer to 2004 rules.

The 2007 rule DR 120.10 says


But you don't get a dispensation certificate "from the steward".

In the first place, dressage shows don't HAVE stewards, they have TDs, but you can't get a dispensation certificate from the TD either.

Applying for a dispensation certificate has a whole piece of the rule book itself (GR 821 in the 2007 rule book). You have to apply directly to the USEF


In other disciplines, you may be able to get special permission from the TD or Steward. But in dressage, you need the official form from the USEF office.

Your experience with JUMPERS does not reflect the RULES for dressage.
In fact, there is no actual RULE in Jumping that says you have to wear tall boots, it is just customary, so you didn't NEED a dispensation .

My point was, anyone who NEEDS to wear them already can get permission to do so, so the rule is unnecessary. It simply allows people who are for whatever reason unwilling to invest in proper attire to avoid doing so. I think that nothing was wrong with the old system, changing it was unnecessary, and it certainly didn't add anything to the sport.

Proper attire is, in my view and riding education, a mark of respect. For your horse, your instructor, your judge, your peers, your sport. To deviate from it for the sake purely of convenience or comfort, is, as I have been taught, very disrespectful. Why should we allow that? It's not a safety issue, and it adds nothing. Whatever you all may think of tradition, abiding by it and dressing properly is a mark of respect for the sport.

slc2
Nov. 8, 2007, 12:22 PM
you will have some extremely emotional and perhaps even very personal and nasty responses for saying so ;)

the camp who doesn't want to dress up for shows and wants the dress rules liberalized can be very, veyr nasty at times, and anyone who doesn't agree with them is mired in the past and hopelessly idiotic.

i think you're entitled - it's just an opinion either way. there are those who think 'dumbing down' a sport and allowing all sorts of changes to the tradition makes it less of a challenge and less of a - well, of a sport. they have a point too.

some issues, i agree on the traditional side. in some cases where it's just extra expense to benefit the national organization, i get less of a feeling that it's really something we have to do.

i also think that if someone has money problems, those smooth chap things are very, very expensive for how long they last; a used pair of tall boots is far less money and probably lasts longer.

SillyHorse
Nov. 8, 2007, 12:37 PM
Whatever you all may think of tradition, abiding by it and dressing properly is a mark of respect for the sport.
Will "the sport" cry and feel bad if you don't respect it by spending lots and lots of money on it?

Hony
Nov. 8, 2007, 12:38 PM
Why can't people just buy boots? I love my half chaps and I'm all for getting more people involved, but one needs to respect the traditions. I think there should be the same dress code for all the levels.



Well, hell's bells, why not just dumb it down completely and let them ride in jeans and tennies? :dead: I hope this does not pass. Oh my gawd, it's just like when they dumbed down hunters to include such stellar divisions as low low ammy crossrail long stirrup cavaletti.

Not everyone can afford a set of schooling and showing boots. Buying matching half chaps and paddock boots can save them a few hundred dollars which can be spent at a show.

By including the cross rail division in the hunters the market has been opened up to a whole new group of riders. I suspect this is the goal of allowing half chaps in the dressage court. Why not open up the sport to more people. It can only lead to benefits in the long run.
It is important to respect tradition, but it is also important to respect change. If there were no evolution in dressage then riders would still be showing their horses in pageants, not in a dressage court.

Dressage Art
Nov. 8, 2007, 12:44 PM
It simply allows people who are for whatever reason unwilling to invest in proper attire to avoid doing so.
Define "proper attire"? One time, during one of my lessons, I got a comment from a GP pro: "you should invest in real dressage boots like Pietre, not Ariat". Where does dressage "proper attire" ends and DQizm begins? To me, it's unnecessary details that make our sport supper expensive. We should think more about the wealfare of our horses, not the looks of our footwear.

ThreeFigs
Nov. 8, 2007, 12:49 PM
Alterageous wrote: "It's not a safety issue and it adds nothing."

It detracts nothing, too. Don't you have more important things to do than worry about what other people wear? As long as the item is safe, who cares?

And as for tradition, well, if someone years ago didn't buck THAT, women would still be riding side-saddle and wearing corsets. Men would be wearing perukes and satin knee-pants. Fashions and traditions change. I fail to see the problem. And believe me when I say I have plenty of respect for our sport.

I've said before in other threads, it is a SPORT, not a formal dinner party or fancy-dress party. While the traditional attire is pretty, it's no longer practical in all situations. What is comfortable in Northern Germany is impractical in Arizona or New Mexico.

A well-fitted pair of smooth leather half-chaps are indistinguishable from tall boots from a distance and sometimes look better. If these lower-level riders decide to advance in the sport, then they can invest in a nice pair of tall boots. If they don't, they're not out the money.

While a paddock-boot-and gaiter set CAN cost as much as mid-range tall boots, they do have advantages. For schooling on a hot day, leave off the gaiters or ride in them but remove them between rides. Replacing worn out paddock boots is cheaper than replacing tall boots. I just priced higher quality tall boots, and they're running between $600 and $900 off the shelf. Why would a middle-aged housewife dabbling in training level dressage with her college-bound daughter's horse spend such money to clothe herself? And that's only a start. Then there's breeches, coat and headgear. Lucky for her if she can fit into Daughter's clothes, but not likely.

I'd like dressage to be accessible and friendly to beginners. Relaxing dress codes would help. No, not to the point of jean-cut offs and flip flops, simply stressing safely, practicality, neatness. "Workmanlike" is/was a term used to describe riding attire for Hunt Seat riders. Should work for us, too.

Dressage Art
Nov. 8, 2007, 12:59 PM
Just wearing short jodhpur boots and jodhpur pants is legal. DR120.1 The dress code for training through 4th levels... breeches or jodhpurs, boots or jodhpur boots...

So what's the big deal of adding a half chaps to those short boots?

ThreeFigs
Nov. 8, 2007, 01:04 PM
Define "proper attire"? One time, during one of my lessons, I got a comment from a GP pro: "you should invest in real dressage boots like Pietre, not Ariat".

Wow. Just wow. Does a judge really have the time during a test to make note of your brand of boot? Would he/she really care unless the fit was so incredibly poor it affected your riding? Sheesh!

I ride in Ariats for showing. Guess I'll never be a "serious" dressage rider.

And yes, what you said, DressageArt, about simply adding half-chaps. How many people would roll over and die if someone dared to show in jodhpur boots? Except for some little kids, I've never seen it done. Maybe I'll start next year, just to tweak the DQ's!

Janet
Nov. 8, 2007, 01:53 PM
My point was, anyone who NEEDS to wear them already can get permission to do so, so the rule is unnecessary. It simply allows people who are for whatever reason unwilling to invest in proper attire to avoid doing so.

A. Considering how long it takes the USEF to issue a horse recording certificate, how long do you think it takes them to issue a Dispensation certificate? NOT "days".

B. Please explain what kind of disability would prevent you from wearing jodhpur boots (which are perfectly legal and do not require a dispensation), but allow you to wear short boots and half chaps.

C If you oppose this rule change you are effectively saying that jodphur boots (currently legal) are preferable to matching short boots and half chaps. Is that REALLY what you think?

ESG
Nov. 8, 2007, 02:16 PM
Not everyone can afford a set of schooling and showing boots. Buying matching half chaps and paddock boots can save them a few hundred dollars which can be spent at a show.

Yeah - a show. That's the only benefit - for a show. And perhaps, not even that. Because if you're wearing the same half chap/boot combo to school in and show in, you're eventually going to need a show pair of half chaps or boots, because you're wearing out the ones you're using for schooling. Kinda makes the "savings" evaporate.


By including the cross rail division in the hunters the market has been opened up to a whole new group of riders. I suspect this is the goal of allowing half chaps in the dressage court. Why not open up the sport to more people. It can only lead to benefits in the long run.

Because this has nothing to do with skill, and everything to do with appropriate attire. Your analogy is inaccurate.



It is important to respect tradition, but it is also important to respect change. If there were no evolution in dressage then riders would still be showing their horses in pageants, not in a dressage court.

"Pageants"?!?!? :eek: Is the Spanish Riding School considered a "pageant"? Here, let me get my rhinestone tiara out of storage and plunk it down on my derby. I always knew I'd find a use for it! :lol:

This is nothing to do with training, or "evolution of the sport". This is about changing a rule that doesn't need to be changed. It's not going to benefit the sport one bit. And it doesn't make anything less expensive, or the riders more approachable, or the horses any better or worse trained, or the perception of the sport less elitist. Stupid waste of time. In fact, I've wasted too much of mine on this thread. Off to muck. Better use of my time. :cool:

slc2
Nov. 8, 2007, 02:18 PM
is the judge selling 'pietre' boots?

carolprudm
Nov. 8, 2007, 02:25 PM
How many people would roll over and die if someone dared to show in jodhpur boots? Except for some little kids, I've never seen it done. Maybe I'll start next year, just to tweak the DQ's!
Sounds good to me!

Coreene
Nov. 8, 2007, 02:46 PM
Here, let me get my rhinestone tiara out of storage and plunk it down on my derby. I always knew I'd find a use for it! :lol:Don't bother getting it out of storage, you can borrow one of mine! ;) :lol:

sm
Nov. 8, 2007, 02:52 PM
talking about borrowing, doesn't anyone do that anymore? Show barns with kids borrow just about everything, especially at shows when *someone* didn't pack very well the night before.

Barn and/or Tack sales too are great for some stuff... I didn't read the whole thread, I hope I'm not repeating another post.

soloudinhere
Nov. 8, 2007, 03:09 PM
Will "the sport" cry and feel bad if you don't respect it by spending lots and lots of money on it?

If the only reason you respect something is because someone's feelings might be hurt if you don't, then I daresay you aren't really respecting it at all, are you?

Respect is a matter of personal pride. If you can take pride in your appearance wearing half chaps and short boots, more power to you. I still think it's a little rediculous to say "Well I can spend $300 on half chaps and boots, but I can't buy tall boots."

As far as buying a set of "schooling" boots and "showing" boots, this isn't solved by buying a pair of boots to school in and a pair of fancy half chaps to show in. Reverse it. School in the schooling attire, show in the show attire.

I do see people riding dressage in short boots and I think it looks fine, particularly if the short boots are black and worn, as is appropriate, with garter straps. Certainly looks better to me than a half chap and short boot. I disagree they're indistinguishable at a distance--I can almost always see the button closure, zipper, and elastic foot strap from several yards away.

For the record, I'm not a fan of zip boots either, as I think they disturb the line of the leg. But you know, whatever. I really do feel that if you are going to recognized dressage shows and feel that you can be competitive, that it is time to invest in proper long boots. Generally beginners just trying things out do that in the arena designed for that--SCHOOLING shows. Where they can wear whatever workmanlike attire they want.

snoopy
Nov. 8, 2007, 03:22 PM
[QUOTE=ESG;2790584]
"Pageants"?!?!? :eek: Is the Spanish Riding School considered a "pageant"? Here, let me get my rhinestone tiara out of storage and plunk it down on my derby. I always knew I'd find a use for it! :lol:
QUOTE]


HA!!! I just KNEW that I had other uses for mine besides.."those special occasions";)

It will go perfectly with my cashmere off the shoulder sweater, gold lame' pants and strappy sandles that I must have to audit a clinic. (re: another thread for those who remember)
Snoops is going to be "stylin" next season!!!

J Lav
Nov. 8, 2007, 03:35 PM
Wow. Just wow. Does a judge really have the time during a test to make note of your brand of boot? Would he/she really care unless the fit was so incredibly poor it affected your riding? Sheesh!



As a judge in the UK where short boots and gaiters are allowed I can categorically answer your question as follows :- Not if I am doing my job properly!!

I am only interested in how the horse goes and do not give a damn whether the rider has long boots or short boots and gaiters. I will not think it disrespectful if they are not in long boots, I will not mark them down for it nor will I think they can't be a 'serious' dressage rider.

PS I also don't care a fig if their horse is plaited or not!!

tangledweb
Nov. 8, 2007, 03:59 PM
I can almost always see the button closure, zipper, and elastic foot strap from several yards away.

OMG several yards away! How it must hurt your eyes to see such abominations. You have my deepest sympathy. Have you considered wearing protective goggles? The type aimed at welders would probably obscure over those zipper lines well in most lighting conditions.

I still can't tell if you are serious or doing a DQ parody, but do you think the rule would be more palatable if brought in as a compromise package deal. The DQ faction allows short boots gaiters to be added to the rules, as long as in exchange they finally get compulsory gloves, no top hats below GP, no beige breeches and no riding without fresh lipstick added to the rules?

flshgordon
Nov. 8, 2007, 04:14 PM
Not everyone can afford a set of schooling and showing boots. Buying matching half chaps and paddock boots can save them a few hundred dollars which can be spent at a show.



If you can afford a set of half chaps (the leather ones--roughly $100-200) that according to this rule would be legal to show in, and the paddock boots to go with them (anywhere from $100-$250), then you can afford a pair of tall boots. It doesn't have to be the $750.00 custom Vogels. I have been using the SAME pair of tall boots (field boots mind you that YES are legal in dressage shows) for 10+ years. I paid less than $150.00 for them and only use them for shows. In that time I have been through SEVERAL pairs of half chaps and paddock boots because that is what I school in.

So sorry, not buying the money excuse...this is just an excuse for people to argue about something they don't want to do. Hey I don't want to wear white breeches (trust me, the world would be a better place if I didn't!) but I get over it, move on, and take them off as soon as I'm done showing! :winkgrin: I'm just now thinking about replacing my boots after 10+ years and probably well over $1000 in half chaps and paddock boots.

Hony
Nov. 8, 2007, 04:25 PM
Yeah - a show. That's the only benefit - for a show. And perhaps, not even that. Because if you're wearing the same half chap/boot combo to school in and show in, you're eventually going to need a show pair of half chaps or boots, because you're wearing out the ones you're using for schooling. Kinda makes the "savings" evaporate.

The type of people who will likely use this rule will be those who only do a show or two and probably ride once a week. We are not talking about people like you who wear derbies and apparently ride quite a bit so I don't know why you are soooooo worried about this change. The ruling does not prevent you from wearing you Petries so don't worry about it.



Because this has nothing to do with skill, and everything to do with appropriate attire. Your analogy is inaccurate.

Let me spell it out for you: The correlation is that both adding a division in hunters and changing a dress code in dressage allow a new group of people to be involved.



"Pageants"?!?!? :eek: Is the Spanish Riding School considered a "pageant"? Here, let me get my rhinestone tiara out of storage and plunk it down on my derby. I always knew I'd find a use for it! :lol:
In fact, early European aristocrats demonstrated their dressage in pageants. If you consider that there was no evolution prior to the Spanish Riding school then you would still be training your horse to do levade to see over a crowd in war. If you would like maybe we could arrange to have you and your horse transported to Iraq so that you can keep with tradition.


This is nothing to do with training, or "evolution of the sport". This is about changing a rule that doesn't need to be changed. It's not going to benefit the sport one bit. And it doesn't make anything less expensive, or the riders more approachable, or the horses any better or worse trained, or the perception of the sport less elitist. Stupid waste of time. In fact, I've wasted too much of mine on this thread. Off to muck. Better use of my time. :cool:

Sorry to have wasted your time being forward thinking.

mp
Nov. 8, 2007, 05:09 PM
I ride in Ariats for showing. Guess I'll never be a "serious" dressage rider.



As long as they don't have zippers, I think you're OK.

snoopy
Nov. 8, 2007, 05:17 PM
Zippers...zippers...thank god for zippers!!!

I have a very long, slim leg with a size 11 foot. Even custom boots were hard going for me because they needed to have enough room in them to get my foot down what is basically a drain pipe!!! They would still be baggy and look strange...with the advent of zips I was able to get a perfect fit that was tight round the ankle and give the boot a really nice shape. Wish I could go zip-less but mother nature was not kind when she designed my leg. The zip though has allowed the boot to be a better fit around the ankle and there for I only get ONE crease because there is hardly a need to drop. Robert Dover would be very happy with them. Any more than ONE crease and Mr. Dressage goes MAD!!!!

Dressage Art
Nov. 8, 2007, 07:05 PM
As long as they don't have zippers...
Jan Brink who is a top world rated dressage rider, who just did FEI Dressage Trainers forum, rode in zipped tall boots! Better warn him about zippers on his tall boots ;)

ESG
Nov. 8, 2007, 08:40 PM
The type of people who will likely use this rule will be those who only do a show or two and probably ride once a week. We are not talking about people like you who wear derbies and apparently ride quite a bit so I don't know why you are soooooo worried about this change. The ruling does not prevent you from wearing you Petries so don't worry about it.

So, why are they doing rated shows and not schooling shows? Not that our local schooling shows allow half chaps, mind you. I don't know about the frozen north, but here in the US, most of our GMOs go by USEF/USDF rules. So, again, your logic, isn't.

Oh, and BTW, I wear Ariat zip up, hunter dress boots to show. I don't like Petries. :p


Let me spell it out for you: The correlation is that both adding a division in hunters and changing a dress code in dressage allow a new group of people to be involved.

And let me spell it out for you - changing a dress code isn't going to enable a whole slew of new riders to be involved. One does, after all, need a horse. And if one doesn't own a horse, one must be leased/rented - another expense. Said horse must be hauled to show - another expense. Said rider must be schooled on said horse at show - yet another darned expense. So, your half chaps-vs-tall boots saved you HOW much money? And made the sport HOW much more accessible? Once again - bad analogy.



In fact, early European aristocrats demonstrated their dressage in pageants. If you consider that there was no evolution prior to the Spanish Riding school then you would still be training your horse to do levade to see over a crowd in war. If you would like maybe we could arrange to have you and your horse transported to Iraq so that you can keep with tradition.

You first. :D


Sorry to have wasted your time being forward thinking.

You're not "forward thinking"; you're trying to level a playing field that can't be leveled by such an innocuous change, and you're also comparing an advance to the sport with a change in fashion. Sorry you don't think clearly enough to understand that. :cool:

Ja Da Dee
Nov. 9, 2007, 10:00 AM
So, why are they doing rated shows and not schooling shows? Not that our local schooling shows allow half chaps, mind you. I don't know about the frozen north, but here in the US, most of our GMOs go by USEF/USDF rules. So, again, your logic, isn't.

So, just admit it, you don't want part time dressage riders sullying your dressage court.

Yes, most schooling shows go by the USEF/USDF rules, so in order to ride in a schooling show, people trying out the sport need to go and get a pair of tall boots. I've got a cheap pair of tall boots that I wear, they are horribly uncomfortable on my feet, and I hate them. I wear them when I show because I must. I love my Blunnies and half chaps, the blunnies are much more comfortable on my feet, and allow me to ride better, and feel the stirrup better. Would I spend the money on full grain half chaps to show with them? Myself, probably not. I would rather respect my horse and spend the extra money (lol ... extra money) on lessons with my trainer.

I wonder if they are trying to bring more riders into the lower levels to make up for all the PO'ed riders who will be leaving the sport when they start requiring scores to move up?

Renae
Nov. 9, 2007, 10:04 AM
Fact is under current rules anyone can wear jodhpur boots and jodhpur pants, without half chaps. So why don't all of those people looking for a cheaper way to show dressage do that? Not that I think wearing half chaps is so wrong, I just find the arguement that allowing them will make showing dressage more economically accessible invalid as an even cheaper option already exists.

Janet
Nov. 9, 2007, 10:08 AM
So, why are they doing rated shows and not schooling shows? Around here, we have schooling shows with r, R, and S judges. But in some parts of the country, the only way to show in front of a judge with an "L" is to go to a recognized show.

ThreeFigs
Nov. 9, 2007, 10:18 AM
The more I return to this thread, the sillier it seems. Paddocks with gaiters is nothing more than an option for dress, same as jodhpur boots and pants, same as Ariats, Petries, Vogels, Dehners, with or without zippers, dress or field, custom or off the shelf.

carolprudm
Nov. 9, 2007, 10:21 AM
Fact is under current rules anyone can wear jodhpur boots and jodhpur pants, without half chaps. So why don't all of those people looking for a cheaper way to show dressage do that? Not that I think wearing half chaps is so wrong, I just find the arguement that allowing them will make showing dressage more economically accessible invalid as an even cheaper option already exists.
LOL, I don't think many people know that short boots by themselves are legal. I don't show, but the idea of turning up in my paddock boots is tempting. I feel I ride better without the extra leather on my legs.

ESG
Nov. 9, 2007, 10:24 AM
Fact is under current rules anyone can wear jodhpur boots and jodhpur pants, without half chaps. So why don't all of those people looking for a cheaper way to show dressage do that? Not that I think wearing half chaps is so wrong, I just find the arguement that allowing them will make showing dressage more economically accessible invalid as an even cheaper option already exists.

Thank you Renae. That was exactly my point.

ESG
Nov. 9, 2007, 10:26 AM
Around here, we have schooling shows with r, R, and S judges. But in some parts of the country, the only way to show in front of a judge with an "L" is to go to a recognized show.

Well, since judges with an "L" don't judge recognized shows, your point is invalid. The place for an "L" judge is at a schooling show.

And we also have r, R and S judges at schooling shows, but that doesn't change the dress code. ;)

ESG
Nov. 9, 2007, 10:33 AM
So, just admit it, you don't want part time dressage riders sullying your dressage court.

Oh, please. And it isn't exactly my dressage court anyway, is it?

Personally, I give less than a damn what people ride in. But to change a rule that isn't going to make the sport any better, is stupid. You don't see the hunters, jumpers, or eventers showing in half chaps, do you? Or USEF suggesting changes to that effect? So why dressage? To make it more "accessible"? I think not - I've already addressed that point.


Yes, most schooling shows go by the USEF/USDF rules, so in order to ride in a schooling show, people trying out the sport need to go and get a pair of tall boots. I've got a cheap pair of tall boots that I wear, they are horribly uncomfortable on my feet, and I hate them. I wear them when I show because I must. I love my Blunnies and half chaps, the blunnies are much more comfortable on my feet, and allow me to ride better, and feel the stirrup better. Would I spend the money on full grain half chaps to show with them? Myself, probably not. I would rather respect my horse and spend the extra money (lol ... extra money) on lessons with my trainer.

I wonder if they are trying to bring more riders into the lower levels to make up for all the PO'ed riders who will be leaving the sport when they start requiring scores to move up?

Well, since that hasn't happened yet, I wouldn't waste much energy worrying about it.

And if USEF/USDF were truly interested in making better riders, they'd make their instructor certification program what it should be, to produce better instructors. You can change all the clothing rules in the book, but in the end, it's how you ride. And all the EuroStar breeches, custom Vogels/Koenigs/Sergio Grassos, and Pikeur coats (or lack thereof) don't make up for crappy riding. I, for one, have never seen anyone win because of what they spent on their clothing and tack. OTOH, I've also never seen anyone win that is inappropriately turned out. Preparation, both in grooming and in training, is the key to success. And appropriate attire is part of grooming.

claire
Nov. 9, 2007, 10:47 AM
I wonder if they are trying to bring more riders into the lower levels to make up for all the PO'ed riders who will be leaving the sport when they start requiring scores to move up?

I agree that is probably the "reasoning" behind the proposed rule change.

But you have to question their thought process:
Is that what really keeps riders from showing in recognized shows? :confused:

The rule against riding in half chaps and the $$$cost of boots.
OR
The prohibitive $$$$ cost of entry/processing fees/hauling and stabling, and the lack of recognized shows outside of metro areas?

flshgordon
Nov. 9, 2007, 10:49 AM
Is that what really keeps riders from showing in recognized shows? :confused:

The rule against riding in half chaps and the $$$cost of boots.
OR
The prohibitive $$$$ cost of entry/processing fees/hauling and stabling, and the lack of recognized shows outside of metro areas?


Ding-ding-ding----we have a winner! :lol: :lol: :lol:

Janet
Nov. 9, 2007, 10:57 AM
You don't see the hunters, jumpers, or eventers showing in half chaps, do you? Or USEF suggesting changes to that effect? Half chaps are legal in Eventing at both the national and FEI level. And yes, you DO see some people competing with half chaps, though you won't notice unless you look closely.

They are not permitted in hunters (except unjudged warm up classes).

There is no rule against them for jumpers, and I have definitely seen them used there.

Janet
Nov. 9, 2007, 11:08 AM
Well, since judges with an "L" don't judge recognized shows, your point is invalid. The place for an "L" judge is at a schooling show.

And we also have r, R and S judges at schooling shows, but that doesn't change the dress code. ;)
You are missing my point.

YOU asked: "So, why are they doing rated shows and not schooling shows?"

MY answer is:"So they can get an opinion/score/comments from a REAL judge".

I agree it has nothing to do with attire, they can wear jodhpur boots if they want.

claire
Nov. 9, 2007, 11:18 AM
I wonder if they are trying to bring more riders into the lower levels to make up for all the PO'ed riders who will be leaving the sport when they start requiring scores to move up?

Again, I question their thought process re:

"1. Effective Dec 1, 2009, riders at Third Level and above must be eligible according to qualification criteria established by the Federation's dressage committee."

So, qualification scores (from a recognized show and different judges) are required for Bronze/Silver/Gold medals.

Now, we need to require qualification scores to move from 2nd to 3rd
(that will = more $$$) :rolleyes:

:confused: I just wonder how many Ammies are going to decide showing recognized and getting qualification scores is just prohibitive...
better to spend those $$$ on clinics and training and schooling shows?

Bizarre thought process! :lol:

slc2
Nov. 9, 2007, 11:49 AM
Maybe that's exactly their goal.

Ja Da Dee
Nov. 9, 2007, 11:54 AM
Maybe that's exactly their goal.

but if I was just riding and taking lessons, not showing, I wouldn't be paying any membership dues. I also wouldn't be getting the judges comments to verify that I was on track with my training.

Alagirl
Nov. 9, 2007, 12:30 PM
Why can't people just buy boots? I love my half chaps and I'm all for getting more people involved, but one needs to respect the traditions. I think there should be the same dress code for all the levels.

well, some people are hard to fit in boots it's a nice economical way, paddocks and chaps, the chaps last forever....

Sandy M
Nov. 9, 2007, 12:33 PM
Well, EXCUSE me... You must never have had to deal with a ridiculously high arch. Without a zipper in my dress boots, I couldn't even begin to get them on, I'd be relegated to field boots, which I'm not a fan of for dressage. Really, zippers are required for some of us.


And due to an old injury (circa 1974), even zippers don't help much for me to get into my tall boots. I HAVE to have field boots, and even then, lace the left foot very loosely or it will be painful. I use paddock boots, slightly too large for me (which I ALSO had extensively STRETCHED over the arch by a shoemaker) and half-chaps for every day. Even my show boots are a little too large in the foot to accommodate my injury and it is still painful and difficult to get that left one on. Personally, I PREFER to and DO show in "proper" boots - but they are field boots and I don't know what I'd do if it were suddenly declared that field boots were unacceptable. Good quality half-chaps and paddock boots - baredly discernable from top boots from a distance - seem a good alternative.

Sandy M
Nov. 9, 2007, 12:37 PM
Actually, I ride in semicustom field boots. I fractured my foot and since cannot ride with the boning in the back of dressage boots. But you're free to assume what you want.

I don't think schooling attire is appropriate to show in. I would feel like I was being disrespectful to the judge by wearing it.

Those who need them for an injury or some other extenuating circumstance can get a dispensation from the steward, as everyone who shows in other USEF divisions has to do. It's not difficult to get one if you truly need them.

One does not need a dispensation to wear field boots, so I don't know what you mean by this.

Sandy M
Nov. 9, 2007, 12:41 PM
You know, it costs just as much to buy a properly fitting pair of smooth leather half chaps and short boots as it does to buy a reasonable pair of tall boots. The tredstep galway is $170 just for the gaiter, boot aside. The cost argument doesn't REALLY float in this case. Good fit costs money, whether it's in a tall boot or a half chap/ short boot system.



My half-chaps, which combined with a nice paddock boot, look very much like a top boot, cost $99. My paddock boots (on sale) cost $89 (regular price would have been $130). Total $188(if purchased at full price $229) . My good show boots, Petrie field boots with dressage stiffener, semi-custom, cost $350. Custom Dehners would have cost something around $700. It does NOT cost just as much to have a nice set of half-chaps and paddock boots.

Alagirl
Nov. 9, 2007, 12:50 PM
My half-chaps, which combined with a nice paddock boot, look very much like a top boot, cost $99. My paddock boots (on sale) cost $89 (regular price would have been $130). Total $188(if purchased at full price $229) . My good show boots, Petrie field boots with dressage stiffener, semi-custom, cost $350. Custom Dehners would have cost something around $700. It does NOT cost just as much to have a nice set of half-chaps and paddock boots.


besides, if you treat them nice, the chaps will outlast several paddock boots...

Sannois
Nov. 9, 2007, 01:28 PM
Well, hell's bells, why not just dumb it down completely and let them ride in jeans and tennies? :dead: I hope this does not pass. Oh my gawd, it's just like when they dumbed down hunters to include such stellar divisions as low low ammy crossrail long stirrup cavaletti.

PEople want to change everything. AGH Whats wronf with traditional dress and looking good. :yes:

mp
Nov. 9, 2007, 01:35 PM
My half-chaps, which combined with a nice paddock boot, look very much like a top boot, cost $99. My paddock boots (on sale) cost $89 (regular price would have been $130). Total $188(if purchased at full price $229) . My good show boots, Petrie field boots with dressage stiffener, semi-custom, cost $350. Custom Dehners would have cost something around $700. It does NOT cost just as much to have a nice set of half-chaps and paddock boots.

Gotcha beat -- my half chaps cost $75 and so did my paddocks. Total $150. I've had them for 4 years, ride 3-4x/week. I had to have the zippers replaced in the h/c but the ensemble still looks quite nice. I also got a pair of used Dehners for $80. :D

I doubt this rule change will bring many more people into the dressage ring. It's more a matter of allowing people some leeway to choose (such as beige breeches instead of white ones) and still look perfectly presentable -- at least to some of us. :lol:

flshgordon
Nov. 9, 2007, 02:31 PM
My half-chaps, which combined with a nice paddock boot, look very much like a top boot, cost $99. My paddock boots (on sale) cost $89 (regular price would have been $130). Total $188(if purchased at full price $229) . My good show boots, Petrie field boots with dressage stiffener, semi-custom, cost $350. Custom Dehners would have cost something around $700. It does NOT cost just as much to have a nice set of half-chaps and paddock boots.

But not everyone has to buy a $350 pair of show boots. As I stated above....$150.00/10+ years for my show boots and they are just now being retired. So my boots actually cost LESS than your half chap scenario

Sandy M
Nov. 9, 2007, 02:42 PM
Gotcha beat -- my half chaps cost $75 and so did my paddocks. Total $150. I've had them for 4 years, ride 3-4x/week. I had to have the zippers replaced in the h/c but the ensemble still looks quite nice. I also got a pair of used Dehners for $80. :D

I doubt this rule change will bring many more people into the dressage ring. It's more a matter of allowing people some leeway to choose (such as beige breeches instead of white ones) and still look perfectly presentable -- at least to some of us. :lol:

Oh,yes, one can definitely do it for less. I was just pointing out an economic middle ground between "cheap" and "as expensive as tall boots." *Shrug* I have the tall boots, I show in them. But I really don't care if someone, for economic or physical reasons, wants to show in NICE gaiters/paddock boots. For "Everyday" I wear the half-chaps and paddock boots. For a clinic, lesson or show, the tall boots. As for Jodhpurs and paddock boots, I don't think they'd be all that comfortable for dressage. I rode in them as a kid, when I (or rather, my parents) couldn't afford tall boots unless we found a pair at Salvation Army or Good Will (which DID happen occasionally), and I didn't like the Jodhs, personally. Of course, a lot of the pictures in Wynmalen's book show him riding in johds.

carolprudm
Nov. 9, 2007, 02:54 PM
LOL, I just buy long breeches

soloudinhere
Nov. 9, 2007, 03:31 PM
One does not need a dispensation to wear field boots, so I don't know what you mean by this.

They are two separate comments. The first, that I wear field boots, was a response to a previous poster's assumption that I would somehow be offended by her riding in field boots, and the second, that anyone who NEEDS to wear half chaps already can, by getting permission from the GMO.

And as to the poster who said that her tall boots are uncomfortable--tough cookies. I don't think wool jackets in the dead of summer are comfortable, but I wouldn't dream of showing without one on. If your boots aren't comfortable, why did you buy them?

As far as chaps lasting longer. In order to look nice enough to show in, you'd have to either not ride in them much or constantly replace them as they wear, so this isn't really a reason of economy--quality tall boots also last a long time. Heck, I had a pair of synthetic field boots that refused to die after 5 years of riding 4 horses a day.

I don't see why it is apparently now a massive hardship to borrow a pair of boots for a day if you don't want to buy your own. That's how our collegiate dressage team outfits riders. If you want to show in front of a "real" judge, why not at least make the effort to have on a "real" outfit?

poltroon
Nov. 9, 2007, 03:44 PM
The new half-chap systems are so nice that I doubt a judge would even notice that they weren't regular tall boots. I am totally fine with those being allowed for showing.

Currently, the rules allow for adults to show in paddock boots without half-chaps. Now that would be far less traditional and far more tacky.

Another advantage of the paddock boot/half chap system is that you don't have to buy both in a single transaction, again making it more accessible financially.

mp
Nov. 9, 2007, 04:17 PM
T
I don't see why it is apparently now a massive hardship to borrow a pair of boots for a day if you don't want to buy your own. That's how our collegiate dressage team outfits riders. If you want to show in front of a "real" judge, why not at least make the effort to have on a "real" outfit?

It isn't a massive hardship. It's simply a matter of preference -- giving those who prefer the option of showing in half chaps and matching paddock boots.

You think h/c and matching paddocks look tacky, you don't like the look of tall boots with zippers, and you show in field boots. I think h/c and matching paddocks look perfectly fine, I don't care for the look of field boots in dressage, and I show in dress boots. Just a matter of preference.

carolprudm
Nov. 9, 2007, 04:42 PM
If your boots aren't comfortable, why did you buy them?


If you are refering to me, I did not say my tall boots are uncomfortable. I simply think that I have more sensitive feel without them.

Oh, by the way, they're DerDaus, cost #600+ a few years ago

sidepasser
Nov. 9, 2007, 04:51 PM
Wow, just when I was thinking the english disciplines were the last bastions of tradition. I reckon I was wrong. Can't wait to see Rod's Western Wear and Dressage Boutique come in my email every month. Bling, colored boots, silver tack, sequins and spandex..gotta love it..lol..

I would not show if I could not dress appropriately and have my horse turned out with braids and the correct tack for it's classes. Shows are for putting one's best hoof and foot forward.

I'm just learning dressage and I'm accumulating stuff for showing while I am learning. I've bought a saddle, a nice pad, I am learning to braid my horse using a braiding kit and yarn, not rubber bands (though that is quicker), and am paying for lessons. I've bought a little here and a little there. When I get to the point where I feel I am good enough not to embarrass myself, my horse and my instructor (as well as be snickered at by those in attendance) I will buy myself a pair of boots. They may not be the highest priced boots, I may have to buy something a little less than I would like, but you bet they will tall, black and leather. To me, getting the boots is sort of like crossing the line between "just learning" and "now I am serious and want to do my best to show the Judges that".

If I want to ride in half chaps and paddock boots at home or even in lessons, that is one thing. But nothing says "serious" like a well turned out rider, in appropriate attire with a spit shined horse that is properly braided. I may never earn a tophat, but I sure am going to earn those boots.

I don't care what YOU wear..but I can promise you this - it is a slippery slope to begin to allow no jackets, no boots, etc. for dressage. If you think I am kidding, look at the AQHA shows and their western pleasure queens. I used to show AQHA. We rode in a very nice starched white cotton button down shirt with well pressed clean jeans and clean boots with nice western belts and a white or wheat colored straw hat or an appropriately conservate felt hat. Now since the "rules" were relaxed..makes my eyes bleed - can't see the horses for the bling - silver, sequins, crystals and loud colors. Maybe y'all would like that. Maybe it is time to change to "whatever goes" except at the Olympics where tradition will be nodded to. I don't think I will participate in any "whatever goes" attire.

I am just a lowly student and a cash poor one at that. Even so, I will save my pennies and when my instructor starts talking "show", I will buy some tall, black, leather boots. I am hard to fit in the boot department too, but I guarantee you that I will find a pair that fits without paying 400. plus for them. I am frugal by nature and by planning, I know I will have time to look around, time to shop and time to try on.

Sandy M
Nov. 9, 2007, 04:58 PM
If I want to ride in half chaps and paddock boots at home or even in lessons, that is one thing. But nothing says "serious" like a well turned out rider, in appropriate attire with a spit shined horse that is properly braided. I may never earn a tophat, but I sure am going to earn those boots.

I don't care what YOU wear..but I can promise you this - it is a slippery slope to begin to allow no jackets, no boots, etc. for dressage. If you think I am kidding, look at the AQHA shows and their western pleasure queens. I used to show AQHA. We rode in a very nice starched white cotton button down shirt with well pressed clean jeans and clean boots with nice western belts and a white or wheat colored straw hat or an appropriately conservate felt hat. Now since the "rules" were relaxed..makes my eyes bleed - can't see the horses for the bling - silver, sequins, crystals and loud colors. Maybe y'all would like that. Maybe it is time to change to "whatever goes" except at the Olympics where tradition will be nodded to. I don't think I will participate in any "whatever goes" attire.




Well....one might point out that with all the hair tearing out and pi$$ing and moaning about why dressage isn't taken seriously as a SPORT.... riding in formal cutaway coats and top hats is part of it. I don't know of any other sport where you dress as if going to a formal ball, with just the addition of riding boots. I don't necessarily agree with that: I love the formal look and the tall boots, but there are those who would say if it's really a sport, then DRESS like it - boots and breeches, but a helmet (even at FEI), perhaps a polo or long-sleeved non-restricting shirt, no stock tie, etc., and save the "tux" for costumed freestyles. Just sayin'...... (I won't go so far as to echo Jimmy Wofford's suggestion of a vaulter's leotard! *G*)

poltroon
Nov. 9, 2007, 05:02 PM
The only difference between some of these new half-chap systems and "traditional" tall boots is how you put them on, not in look or in functionality.

Zippers aren't traditional, either. Is it because the old masters dissed them, as being counterproductive to the perfect piaffe? No. It's because they weren't invented yet. Zippers make a tighter, taller, more elegant fit possible - enhancing functionality.

(Meanwhile, perfectly legal tall boots are still legal with strange metal insignias on the outside, visible zippers, and all kinds of other features, as long as it's all one boot.)

Traditionalists should be reminded that 4-way-stretch pants are not 'traditional' and for the same reason. I imagine many of the old masters would be pleased to take advantage of this new technology.

Wearing a helmet is not "traditional", let alone one that can protect a skull from a 300G impact.

If the form and function is respected, there is no need to fear new ideas and innovation in equipment.

snoopy
Nov. 9, 2007, 05:31 PM
[QUOTE=poltroon;2793466]
Zippers aren't traditional, either. Is it because the old masters dissed them, as being counterproductive to the perfect piaffe? No. It's because they weren't invented yet. Zippers make a tighter, taller, more elegant fit possible - enhancing functionality.
QUOTE]


I will agree to that...especially with the very tough fit for my leg.

Sannois
Nov. 9, 2007, 05:44 PM
Wow, just when I was thinking the english disciplines were the last bastions of tradition. I reckon I was wrong. Can't wait to see Rod's Western Wear and Dressage Boutique come in my email every month. Bling, colored boots, silver tack, sequins and spandex..gotta love it..lol..

I would not show if I could not dress appropriately and have my horse turned out with braids and the correct tack for it's classes. Shows are for putting one's best hoof and foot forward.

I'm just learning dressage and I'm accumulating stuff for showing while I am learning. I've bought a saddle, a nice pad, I am learning to braid my horse using a braiding kit and yarn, not rubber bands (though that is quicker), and am paying for lessons. I've bought a little here and a little there. When I get to the point where I feel I am good enough not to embarrass myself, my horse and my instructor (as well as be snickered at by those in attendance) I will buy myself a pair of boots. They may not be the highest priced boots, I may have to buy something a little less than I would like, but you bet they will tall, black and leather. To me, getting the boots is sort of like crossing the line between "just learning" and "now I am serious and want to do my best to show the Judges that".

If I want to ride in half chaps and paddock boots at home or even in lessons, that is one thing. But nothing says "serious" like a well turned out rider, in appropriate attire with a spit shined horse that is properly braided. I may never earn a tophat, but I sure am going to earn those boots.

I don't care what YOU wear..but I can promise you this - it is a slippery slope to begin to allow no jackets, no boots, etc. for dressage. If you think I am kidding, look at the AQHA shows and their western pleasure queens. I used to show AQHA. We rode in a very nice starched white cotton button down shirt with well pressed clean jeans and clean boots with nice western belts and a white or wheat colored straw hat or an appropriately conservate felt hat. Now since the "rules" were relaxed..makes my eyes bleed - can't see the horses for the bling - silver, sequins, crystals and loud colors. Maybe y'all would like that. Maybe it is time to change to "whatever goes" except at the Olympics where tradition will be nodded to. I don't think I will participate in any "whatever goes" attire.

I am just a lowly student and a cash poor one at that. Even so, I will save my pennies and when my instructor starts talking "show", I will buy some tall, black, leather boots. I am hard to fit in the boot department too, but I guarantee you that I will find a pair that fits without paying 400. plus for them. I am frugal by nature and by planning, I know I will have time to look around, time to shop and time to try on.
Well said!!!
:yes:

class
Nov. 9, 2007, 06:15 PM
well if you are going to make it all about tradition, i would rather see 1000 people in half chaps than ONE person in those ridiculous short coats with tails. and those god-awful coats are legal.

i would also like everyone who is against half chaps to look at their bridle, and if your browband is sparkling with some knickknack or beading you need to take it off your bridle and shove it up your tight, traditional.. ahem. rather, you should remove it from your bridle and practice what you preach.

SillyHorse
Nov. 9, 2007, 06:22 PM
well if you are going to make it all about tradition, i would rather see 1000 people in half chaps than ONE person in those ridiculous short coats with tails. and those god-awful coats are legal.

i would also like everyone who is against half chaps to look at their bridle, and if your browband is sparkling with some knickknack or beading you need to take it off your bridle and shove it up your tight, traditional.. ahem. rather, you should remove it from your bridle and practice what you preach.
Well said, class.

ESG
Nov. 9, 2007, 09:12 PM
well if you are going to make it all about tradition, i would rather see 1000 people in half chaps than ONE person in those ridiculous short coats with tails. and those god-awful coats are legal.

It's not "tradition", per se - it's about correct attire. "Dumbing down" the attire for dressage isn't going to do anyone any good. There's no good reason for the rule change. If USEF/USDF are going to spend money implementing rule changes, then damned well make it something significant.


i would also like everyone who is against half chaps to look at their bridle, and if your browband is sparkling with some knickknack or beading you need to take it off your bridle and shove it up your tight, traditional.. ahem. rather, you should remove it from your bridle and practice what you preach.

Again, it's not about tradition - it's about making changes that mean something. Fashion statements aren't beneficial to the sport, nor are they detrimental - they're inconsequential.

And if my "ahem" is tight because it's "traditional", what does that make yours? :p

enjoytheride
Nov. 9, 2007, 09:36 PM
Maybe the next rule change we can require a dressage saddle at all levels. Anyone who shows up in a jumping saddle is just playing around and isn't serious about dressage, if they want to do real dressage they need a dressage saddle. Dumbing down dressage by allowing jumping saddles cheapens the sport. Should also ban synthetic saddles as they are not traditional. :eek:

Rhiannonjk
Nov. 9, 2007, 09:37 PM
Apologies that I have not read all entires in this thread, but I would like to throw in my personal viewpoint.

I am all for respecting the sport. I enjoy the "uniform" and do certain things because of tradition at shows... but 13 years ago, when I first got into this sport, I very much faced the idea that I wouldn't be able to show because I wouldn't be able to afford a pair of boots that fit my legs.
As a high school student, there was no way I could justify to my parents that they should invest $500 (I thought that was what it would cost ;):no: )to get custom boots, just so that I could compete (at that time, where I lived, I needed them to go to a schooling show)

I lucked out, and found a used pair that had been custom made for another person with wide calves. But before that? I would literally scout all tack shops - look at all used boots available - and try on pair after pair, sometimes almost in tears, while people assured me that I wasn't alone.

I now, finally, can afford to have custom boots (that used pair served a long appreciated life) and it will put me out $1000. Yeah, I splurged a little, but even thinking about a $600 pair of customs - there are people out there that are worthy to compete, but that is an incredible amount to ask of them.

I'm sure that 12 years ago at that schooling show that they would have allowed me in the ring with half-chaps, but NOBODY wore them. If this rule passes, I don't envision recognized shows suddenly losing all respect.

For reference:
I can buy no boots "off the shelf" that fit my legs (I didn't look at petries - but they are around $600 anyways)
Custom Dehners: $1000
Semi-custom cheapies: My mom got a cheap pair of dress boots for $80, and I spent $85 at the shoe shop getting them altered to fit (thought I'm sure that most people talking about respect wouldn't love their appearance)
Dansko Smooth half-chaps: ~$100 retail, $16 to get stretched to fit.

In summary: This rule change would have saved me many tears as a 14 year old, I'll support it.

Even if you didn't have to go through what I went through, I hope you would support for the same reasons.

RiddleMeThis
Nov. 9, 2007, 09:43 PM
I would support it just because it doesn't matter what the person is wearing just as much as it doens't matter what color the horse is.

2Horse
Nov. 9, 2007, 09:49 PM
I would welcome it. Because it is impossible to find boots off the rack that fit me. I cannot afford customs. So I have half chaps that look like boots. I don't see why it can't be allowed.

Hazelnut
Nov. 9, 2007, 10:04 PM
Last year they had this rule change proposed for riders training through third level. It obviously didn't pass.

This year it is targeted at the lower levels where the bulk of the riders are and will stay.

Half chaps or tall boots is the least of my AA worries.

Rhiannonjk
Nov. 9, 2007, 10:12 PM
This year it is targeted at the lower levels where the bulk of the riders are and will stay.



Because you don't want to fork over, or can't justify, $600+ for custom boots, you aren't going to move up the levels EVER? I would have definitely competed in nice half chaps, and I am at least progressing to second level.
But, as I said above, if I hadn't been able to find cheap used boots, I never would have gotten addicted to the thrill of competition, and might not have stuck with the sport at all.

RiddleMeThis
Nov. 10, 2007, 12:21 AM
Because you don't want to fork over, or can't justify, $600+ for custom boots, you aren't going to move up the levels EVER? I would have definitely competed in nice half chaps, and I am at least progressing to second level.
But, as I said above, if I hadn't been able to find cheap used boots, I never would have gotten addicted to the thrill of competition, and might not have stuck with the sport at all.

I think she means that the majority of riders will always be in the lower levels. Not that a person is always going to stay there. although there is a point where a rider is going to top out, lack of horse lack of time lack of anything, and that will in most cases not be grand prix.

Hazelnut
Nov. 10, 2007, 10:03 AM
I think she means that the majority of riders will always be in the lower levels. Not that a person is always going to stay there. although there is a point where a rider is going to top out, lack of horse lack of time lack of anything, and that will in most cases not be grand prix.

Yes, thank you...that clarifies it. I would be in supportof the rule change. It seems other countries already have allowed the half chaps that look like boots and its going OK for them (according to some posting on this thread).

Calliope
Nov. 10, 2007, 02:55 PM
I find it truly bizarre that so many people have got so much time to spend on worrying about what style of footwear other people are wearing.

Reading this post is like stepping into some alternate reality. :confused:

Kementari
Nov. 11, 2007, 01:55 AM
And as to the poster who said that her tall boots are uncomfortable--tough cookies. I don't think wool jackets in the dead of summer are comfortable, but I wouldn't dream of showing without one on. If your boots aren't comfortable, why did you buy them?

Um...speaking for myself, I bought boots that aren't entirely comfortable because I couldn't find anything off-the-rack that WAS comfortable, and couldn't afford customs. If I'm not mistaken, that's part of the point of the whole proposed change... :yes:

And, yep, those wool coats ARE uncomfortable - and you'll note that nothing in the rules requires a wool coat, and many (possibly even most, by now) of us are quite happy in our coats made out of more modern materials but which still appear traditional (hmm, sort of like those nice half chap/paddock systems... ;)).

Personally? I'll still wear tall boats in the show ring (even though they give me nasty blisters if I leave them on too long). But if others prefer half chaps, well, I think I'll probably survive the insult. :eek: :winkgrin:

horseaholic
Nov. 11, 2007, 09:15 AM
IN MY HUMBLE PRIMMA DONNA OPINION.

I WOULD LIKE TO SEE THE ATTIRE OF DRESSAGE EVER SO SLIGHTLY LEAD IN THE DIRECTION OF THE ATHLETE.
TRADITIONAL THINKERS ARE ADMIRED FOR THEIR DESIRE TO KEEP IT "PURE" BUT I WOULD PERFER TO SEE THE HORSE AND RIDER LOOKED UPON AS AN ATHLETE WITH THE CLOTHING DESIGNED/TACK DESIGNED TO AID THE ATHLETE.

ThreeFigs
Nov. 11, 2007, 11:53 AM
Yaaaay, Horseaholic! Well said. Eschew the all-caps key, though.

Kiljoywashere
Nov. 11, 2007, 06:32 PM
Most schooling shows say that they are using USDF rules, therefore you must wear tall boots (unless you are a junior in jodphurs). Not everyone can buy boots off the rack - and customs start at more than $500. So for the person who does not fit into standard boot sizes, that's around $500+++ just to get into a schooling show. Not happening.

Shiaway
Nov. 11, 2007, 08:40 PM
On the one hand.... how does what other people wear affect you or your ride etc?

On the other hand, if they really want to help make showing more affordable, as someone else already mentioned, make all the stupid show fees less expensive. I'd love to go to a registared show but with the end price for one day and only one test coming out to be $200, I just can't do it. :(

soloudinhere
Nov. 11, 2007, 09:37 PM
Most schooling shows say that they are using USDF rules, therefore you must wear tall boots (unless you are a junior in jodphurs). Not everyone can buy boots off the rack - and customs start at more than $500. So for the person who does not fit into standard boot sizes, that's around $500+++ just to get into a schooling show. Not happening.

That's been the rule as long as I can remember. And yet somehow people still show. I fail to see how this has suddenly become a problem mandating a rule change when it's been like this forever and people have made do.

And customs can now be had from several different manufacturers for under $400. I ordered a pair at equine affaire this weekend for $295. You just have to put EFFORT into finding them.

see u at x
Nov. 11, 2007, 11:05 PM
Gee, if they allow us to start wearing half chaps, do you think they'll let us start wearing navy colored dressage boots as well? :D

dalpal
Nov. 11, 2007, 11:34 PM
Well, EXCUSE me... You must never have had to deal with a ridiculously high arch. Without a zipper in my dress boots, I couldn't even begin to get them on, I'd be relegated to field boots, which I'm not a fan of for dressage. Really, zippers are required for some of us.

Yeah, I gotta agree with you....I think that's pretty petty to get in an uproar over zippers in tall boots. I was jumping for joy the day I got mine...I have a small foot and a wide calf...pulling those things off with a boot jack was a pain in the arse.

I,mean,come on....are you looking that closely at someone's boots that you notice a zipper????? To each his/her own, if you like a boot without a zipper..good for you...and I should be able to choose a zipper boot if I want.

The day that I was able to put the boot jack and hooks away was a breath of fresh air and my back still thanks me.

ThreeFigs
Nov. 11, 2007, 11:44 PM
That's been the rule as long as I can remember. And yet somehow people still show. I fail to see how this has suddenly become a problem mandating a rule change when it's been like this forever and people have made do.

And customs can now be had from several different manufacturers for under $400. I ordered a pair at equine affaire this weekend for $295. You just have to put EFFORT into finding them.

So happy for you. However, not all of us live in California, Ohio or Massachusetts. So add air fare, car rental and/or hotel costs to your $295 boots, and suddenly we're talking real money.

I've just been told that burgundy colored coats are all the rage in Germany right now at shows. HORRORS! How will we cope over here in the colonies? It's just not... Traditional! It's just not...Classical!

soloudinhere
Nov. 12, 2007, 07:35 AM
So happy for you. However, not all of us live in California, Ohio or Massachusetts. So add air fare, car rental and/or hotel costs to your $295 boots, and suddenly we're talking real money.

I've just been told that burgundy colored coats are all the rage in Germany right now at shows. HORRORS! How will we cope over here in the colonies? It's just not... Traditional! It's just not...Classical!

The company doesn't fail to exist if you don't live in those states. they have a website, very careful ordering instructions, and live people you can contact. there is a seller on ebay who makes customs for $300, and several board members have ordered from him.

I think burgundy show coats would be lovely. But I still really fail to see how changing this does anything. There are ways to "buck the trends" that don't involve wearing schooling attire in the show ring. Wear one of those bizarre kerrits coats. Put some bling on your helmet. Or, if you don't like the rules, DON'T SHOW. For some reason everyone up until now has had to scrounge up boots, and everything is going fine--I don't think that all the paperwork and time of a rule change is really appropriate. I wish our GMOs would stop trying to fix things that aren't broken.

I am also still not clear on why spending $400 on a show is ok, but spending $400 on boots that last a lot longer than one day is just insanely expensive. Petries come in like 48 different sizes and the 3000 model is right in that price range. Sergio grasso semicustoms are about $400 if ordered from Europe. That logic doesn't make sense to me. Skip the show, buy the boots, and then you never have to worry about it again!

Mrsmph
Nov. 12, 2007, 07:47 AM
I live in Miami and I just got my full customs from a manufacturer in CA. You have to do all of the measuring yourself (with a friend's help), but they give you detailed direction on how to do it properly, and talk you through it on the phone. Less than $350, incl. shipping. Love'em!

Sister Margarita
Nov. 12, 2007, 08:14 AM
I teach many young people. One family has three young girls, limited income, very hard working parents to keep their kids riding. The girls are committed to their dressage training, do lots of work to keep riding, but mom and dad can't fork over the funds to get them all boots, especially every time they grow out a size. Cheap boots at $200 times three is not cheap. These daughters work their butts off, ride well at local schooling shows (actually hear comments that they should "move on" to recognized shows from fellow competitors, and wish to give it a go, like the big goal at the end of the season. But Faith outgrew her tall boots, doesn't fit into Hope's, and Charity's boots are shot. So, had they started with short boots and neat half chaps, they could replace the short boots much more easily. With the rule change, they could present a reasonably neat picture and "move on" to a recognized show. Without, Faith might not show, and Charity will wear wrecked up worn out boots.

As a trainer, this breaks my heart to see some families making choices like this.

I see lots of ill-fitting tall boots at shows that look less neat, and some really neat paddock boots and half chaps that look great. I think the letter of intent rather than the letter of the law needs a closer look.

I take half chaps and paddock boots with me when I travel to look at horses or teach clinics. I don't think it looks "less" than tall boots. They are functional, don't give an advantage that I can see (I think many rules are to protect the even playing field), so if neat, clean and well-fitting, what's the problem? And if it means someone can show recognized that perhaps with the old rule could not, it serves development of interest in the sport, which is a goal for dressage as I see it. Not traditional? I can see many things that are within the rules that would be worse.

claire
Nov. 12, 2007, 08:53 AM
With the rule change, they could present a reasonably neat picture and "move on" to a recognized show. Without, Faith might not show, and Charity will wear wrecked up worn out boots.


I STILL cannot understand why the "Tall Boots" (or really ANY) dress requirement would be the "deal breaker" in being able to show at a recognized show? :confused:

From my experience, people who don't show at recognized shows cite
the $$$cost of show fees/hauling/stabling as the reasons for lack of participation.

NOT, the prohibitive cost of tall boots.

So why would the USEF waste the time and trouble making a rule that isn't really going to encourage that many more to show? :confused:


(edit to add)
AND, if the concern is making recognized showing more affordable:

Why, at the same time, propose THESE rules that will absolutely impact the number and cost of recognized shows:

Additional rule proposals:

1. USEF APPOINTING TD's for shows
2. Requiring TWO EMT's for each show.

Ginger
Nov. 12, 2007, 09:38 AM
As Charlie Brown would say, good grief. People, as has been stated before, paddock boots and jods are LEGAL to 4th level. You don't need to be a junior to wear them. If you have paddock boots and can't/don't want to fork over the money for tall boots, google Breeches USA and order a $50 pair of Tuff Rider jodphurs. Voila, you are neatly and appropriately dressed for USEF shows. Thus the issue of "legalizing" half-chaps goes away.

jgrass
Nov. 12, 2007, 10:44 AM
Skip the show, buy the boots, and then you never have to worry about it again!

Boy, don't I wish. I don't think I have ever done a show where the mystery of the day wasn't "will the boots fit me this morning or not?" and "what am I going to have to do to get them on?" (and then off again). And we are talking customs here: you don't get off the shelf boots or semi customs in my calf size. (and so it has been for the past 35 years or so).

And as for short boots and jhodpurs... I ride in short boots with no leg protection, I get bleeding sores on the inside of my calves. Not to mention how rotten they look on a larger woman.

Why is so much energy spent preventing people from having options?

SillyHorse
Nov. 12, 2007, 12:14 PM
Most schooling shows say that they are using USDF rules, therefore you must wear tall boots (unless you are a junior in jodphurs).
That is incorrect on two counts. USEF makes the rules, not USDF. USEF dressage rules state that anyone may wear jods and paddock boots.

Coreene
Nov. 12, 2007, 12:43 PM
there is a seller on ebay who makes customs for $300, and several board members have ordered from him.Do a little more searching on the responses re a few of those companies. I was absolutely horrified when mine showed up - they bore no relation whatsoever to anything I had ordered.

soloudinhere
Nov. 12, 2007, 02:01 PM
Do a little more searching on the responses re a few of those companies. I was absolutely horrified when mine showed up - they bore no relation whatsoever to anything I had ordered.

I'm aware of the mixed responses-- the point was more that, with effort, solutions can be found.

As far as the poster who said semicustom boots don't come in her calf size--semicustoms are built on standard foot sizes with custom calves. If the calf is custom, how does it not come in your size?

As far as the poster who said that $200 x 3 is a lot of money for that family, well, that's what they'll pay to send the three of them to a recognized show (at the very low end!) and the new boots would last a lot longer. If money is tight, it's tight on all fronts. I know when I was a kid my parents would be much more willing to spend $200 on boots I could wear for a year than for me to ride in one or two tests at a big show. I understand the whole goal thing, but if you're making financial decisions and stretching your dollar, recognized shows are exactly the wrong way to do that.

I think making the shows cheaper is a MUCH better way to make the sport more inviting than allowing schooling attire. Unfortunately with gas everything costs more these days. Jodhpurs are allowed. Children and teenagers look fine in them. I really just wish we would stop trying to change things that aren't broken (TD and EMT rules included.)

Now, all that said, I would still rather see a nice looking half chap and short boot than those mountain horse sportive boots. At least nice half chaps and short boots flatter the leg.

js
Nov. 12, 2007, 02:37 PM
Unless you are uncommonly shaped, you can get a usable pair of field or dress boots out of the Dover catalog for about $100. Cheapy field boots, $74.95, cheapy dress boots, $119.95.

And I don't mean 'uncommonly shaped' in an insulting way. I'm uncommonly shaped.

That's true, but take a look at the sizes, they are somewhat limited, perhaps the half chap combo would allow additional sizes. I'm fine either way.

TBrescue
Nov. 12, 2007, 03:44 PM
I agree with Petstorejunkie -if you are going to a show, dress the part. It's a sign of respect. It is quite possible to get a pair of dress boots for a reasonable price, they are available used and through tack swaps if you can't afford new.
If you can't make an attempt to look nice you just shouldn't be showing, that's part of the prep work. Would you show up with a muddy horse? NO WAY! Same principle....

poltroon
Nov. 12, 2007, 03:52 PM
I think making the shows cheaper is a MUCH better way to make the sport more inviting than allowing schooling attire. Unfortunately with gas everything costs more these days. Jodhpurs are allowed. Children and teenagers look fine in them. I really just wish we would stop trying to change things that aren't broken (TD and EMT rules included.)

Now, all that said, I would still rather see a nice looking half chap and short boot than those mountain horse sportive boots. At least nice half chaps and short boots flatter the leg.

I just don't agree that they're schooling attire. Put a spur on and you probably would never notice that they weren't tall boots. Nice half chaps can fit better than tall boots, and look better.

Rubber tall boots are legal. The Mountain Horse tall boots are legal. Ugly ill-fitting tall boots are legal. We're all wrapped up about whether a boot is sewn together at the ankle or fastened in some other way.

Coreene
Nov. 12, 2007, 03:57 PM
If you have fat legs, you can get boots for about $225. If you want to keep them nice, just wear them for shows.

poltroon
Nov. 12, 2007, 04:07 PM
I STILL cannot understand why the "Tall Boots" (or really ANY) dress requirement would be the "deal breaker" in being able to show at a recognized show? :confused:

With a sport you're not sure you're going to pursue long term, it feels wasteful. It's just another $400 straw. Whatever. Who cares?

Currently, riders can get special medical permission to wear half chaps because of medical conditions. Has this impacted your dressage experience in any negative way? Why should the rider and USEF have to waste all their time creating and processing the disability waiver for something so simple?

It's true that if I were that rider, or advising that rider, I'd advise them to show just in paddock boots. But, I think that rider looks far less traditional and will feel far less 'appropriate' than a rider in the nice, smooth leather half chaps.

jgrass
Nov. 12, 2007, 05:47 PM
As far as the poster who said semicustom boots don't come in her calf size--semicustoms are built on standard foot sizes with custom calves. If the calf is custom, how does it not come in your size?

When I was trying to solve this problem, and admittedly that was 25 years ago, semi-custom usually meant the shop had a wider range of calf sizes for each shoe size than the standard, off the shelf boots that maybe had 2-3 calf sizes. And so I ended up buying custom boots if I wanted boots at all. If it now means that they actually WILL build a custom calf, then that is a better situation and I need to look into that.

That still doesn't solve the problem of water retention, weight changes and the like that make it tricky to predict whether any tall boot will actually fit on the day of the show that was entered weeks earlier.