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philosoraptor
Nov. 5, 2007, 07:48 PM
Hi everyone....

Yesterday I went to a "games day" type of event at a barn a few towns over. It was a bunch of fun classes of things such as egg-and-spoon, dollar bareback, barrel racing, etc. Looks like a great deal of fun! The barn was pretty, the arena was lovely and with good footing, and the event was well attended. A friend joined me and we both brought horses.

It was a nicely organized event but something caught my eye. About half the people didn't bother to wear helmets. Many kids didn't have them, either. A few kids were leading other tiny kids around on horse back, no helmet or adult supervision. One wonders how they got insurance, but what do I know?

Partway through the day, in the parking/warm-up area, a horse tripped and the 50something rider went off & horse went down. This woman chose to not wear a helmet. The first people rushing up to her found her not breathing. Then she slowly started to breathe but it was weak. She was unresponsive & pupils dialated. Paramedics rushed in. The med-evac helicopter came and took her away. I don't know her name or anything about her... or even if she lived. I really hope she is OK.

It's her decision not to wear a helmet. I hear this all the time: "helmets are a personal choice and it's not hurting anyone else to go without."

Her choice brought her adult daughter to hysterics. I cannot imagine the horror the daughter must've felt. Someone else had to hold the daughter back and comfort her so that others could work on the unconcious woman. Why don't people think about their loved ones when they make this "choice"?

It was a chilling event. The show halted until long after the chopper left, and some classes were cancelled. Half the riders went home. I felt sick and wanted to go home but was waiting for my friend. Three vehicles full of medics and a helicopter had to visit the farm because of someone's choice. And the event will now be remembered as the one where a rider almost died.


Her choice affected everyone.


Put your #$%#$% helmets on, people. Whine if you need to, but wear the stupid helmet anyway. We don't want to see you hurt. We need you in one piece. Don't let your loved ones suffer because you're too cool or confident to think helmets aren't for you. Even the best riders have accidents.

Thank you for hearing me out.


P.S. Kudos to the 911 operator, the paramedics, and the helicopter team. They did an excellent job and arrived in a matter of minutes. Amazing!

BelladonnaLily
Nov. 5, 2007, 07:57 PM
While I am firmly in the camp that says adult riders should have a choice, I always wear my helmet, and just recently a helmet very well could have saved my daughter's life, or at least from serious injury. She was catapoulted from a very green pony into the rail. At the time, we thought her biggest injury was her leg. Later we found a huge crack in the back of her helmet (which we replaced the next day). She hadn't even realized that she hit her head (we're thinking she hit it on the rail from the way she fell). Reaffirmed my belief in helmets and I have since bought new helmets for my younger daughters. I'll be more vigilant about replacing them now.

And I'm also considering protective vests for them...:yes: There are too many things I want them (and me!) to live for...not wearing a helmet seems so silly to me when that is one small thing you can do to protect yourself.

Rt66Kix
Nov. 5, 2007, 07:58 PM
Her choice affected everyone.


Put your #$%#$% helmets on, people. Whine if you need to, but wear the stupid helmet anyway. We don't want to see you hurt. We need you in one piece. Don't let your loved ones suffer because you're too cool or confident to think helmets aren't for you. Even the best riders have accidents.

Oh, I couldn't agree more! "Her choice affected EVERYONE." Truer words were never spoken.

If I wind up a vegetable, not only is my family affected, but also my horses. I love them too much to see them go elsewhere, since some of them have special needs. There is no way my husband could care for me, AND 6 horses.

Thanks for the insightful post. I hope it changes lives in a positive way.

PalominoMorgan
Nov. 5, 2007, 08:00 PM
I wear my helmet because I love my husband and my life very dearly. He understands I wear it for him and he really appreciates it. With a little one on the way as well... all the more important now. I used to show in an old unapproved until someone I knew got VERY hurt at a show just walking to the warm up ring. (I don't care for the woman, but it still hit home to know her and the show grounds very well.) I figured it was REALLY stupid to wear an approved helmet every time I rode, except at a show. I ordered myself a nice Charles Owen and proudly go in my classes as one of the few people wearing an approved helmet. If they would only make something suitable for western too.... *sigh*

Fake
Nov. 5, 2007, 08:05 PM
As with everything, people either choose to exercise common sense, while others don't. Lucky for me, and my family- I choose to exercise my right to flaunt my common sense, and sport a helmet every time I ride. Yes, I could still become severely dibilitated (or worse) while wearing a helmet, but at least people couldn't scoff at my lack of sense for not wearing one to begin with. For those of you who SCREAM - "It's my choice to not wear a helmet", well guess what - it's my choice to look down my nose at you for your poor decision making ability. 'Nough said.

Chipngrace
Nov. 5, 2007, 08:41 PM
I not only choose to wear my helmet as my personal choice, but because there are a lot of kids at my barn and they watch!

Almost all the adults at my barn now do wear helmets, and I love it. We had our very own in house fun show a couple weekends ago and my barn manager wanted to try her hand at bareback ride-a-buck on my horse, BO shouts over "hey, get your helmet and get on" and she did :) I just love that attitude, not saying to do it thinking she wouldn't, just because it's normal, it's like saying "turn on the engine, let's go for a drive" it's just a part of it, something you do.

wasagroom
Nov. 5, 2007, 08:45 PM
!!! @ kids not REQUIRED to wear helmets.

I know our provincial assocation requires any "junior" riders - up to age 18, I believe, to wear a helmet when riding at a provincial sanctioned event (and most are because that's the best/cheapest/only way to get the insurance to cover an event like that). I started wearing one when they instated that rule and have continued to do so into my "senior" riding years, even though I ride WESTERN!

kml84
Nov. 5, 2007, 08:47 PM
So true!! Think of all the people you have contact with everyday. What would happen to then if you were suddenly gone? If you didn't die, do you really think your family wants to spend their time doing tube feedings, suctioning traches and changing your diapers????

PUT YOUR HELMET ON!!!!!!!!!!

cholmberg
Nov. 5, 2007, 09:28 PM
Not many around here wear helmets outside of Pony Club. I freely admit I never wore one until I went to college. I simply didn't know any better. All the kids who game around here. . I went to a barrel race meet a couple of years ago, there was a FOUR YEAR OLD running barrels, and she was on a big horse, not a pony. . .NO HELMET. I could not breathe while she was making her run. . how did I know her age? Two girls sitting next to me who obviously knew her were commenting on how good a rider she was for being 'not even five years old yet' (they looked to be around 7 or 8). True, her run wasn't fast and furious, but she could have easily fallen from that horse.
None of the kids (0r adults) had on helmets, but that kid was the youngest.

I wear mine. I make sure Lilli wears hers. There was a lady at the barn who had one the other day, I admired her effort. . but the helmet was so small it merely perched atop her head, it did not fit at all, it looked like it might have been a child's helmet. Sometimes I do long for the freedom I had when I did not wear a helmet, then I think of my kids and all the freak accidents I've heard of or seen and the accidents that have happened to me personally. .and I put it on. It'll be second nature to Lilli, since she will not ride without one from the start.

HappyHoppingHaffy
Nov. 5, 2007, 09:41 PM
It's like wearing a seat belt. You don't realize how much you need it until you need it!
Thanks for sharing your story. It re-emphasizes why I wear my helmet!

Huntertwo
Nov. 5, 2007, 09:57 PM
I wear my helmet because I love my husband and my life very dearly. He understands I wear it for him and he really appreciates it. With a little one on the way as well... all the more important now. I used to show in an old unapproved until someone I knew got VERY hurt at a show just walking to the warm up ring. (I don't care for the woman, but it still hit home to know her and the show grounds very well.) I figured it was REALLY stupid to wear an approved helmet every time I rode, except at a show. I ordered myself a nice Charles Owen and proudly go in my classes as one of the few people wearing an approved helmet. If they would only make something suitable for western too.... *sigh*

I'm pretty sure you can wear a helmet in Western classes and not be penalized.
I ride Western and always wear my Troxel. In fact I had a pretty good fall on the trails about 2 weeks ago and the back of my head was the first thing that hit the ground. I can't imagine if I wasn't wearing my helmet.

Rancher
Nov. 5, 2007, 10:24 PM
It's like wearing a seat belt. You don't realize how much you need it until you need it!
Thanks for sharing your story. It re-emphasizes why I wear my helmet!

Yes, the seatbelt thing. There was a man recently not far from here. He was driving his SUV not far from home. Since he was just going a few miles he didn't put on his seatbelt. Well he T-boned a school bus and was partly ejected. He ended up dying right infront of all the kids age 5-18. The kids were all fine physically, but emotionally? Lets just say that his decision to not wear a seatbelt affected more than him and his family. They had to bring in a councellor for the kids. :(

I wear my helmet every ride, every time. I was once at a sale and wasn't planning on buying anything. I saw a great horse there that I wanted to try out, but I was sadly lacking head gear so I refused to get on! I learned a lesson that day. Always take head gear with you when going to a sale, even when you are just looking! lol. I even wear my helmet when lunging or picking out feet. How many times have you heard of people getting kicked in the head while working around their horses legs? No thanks. I have two little kids. LOL! I even wore one while halterbreaking a 3 month old foal. I also have breakaway irons and taps on my western saddle. I am so scared of being dragged!! That will kill you pretty quick.

ddashaq
Nov. 5, 2007, 10:31 PM
I am pretty sure that you can't be penalized for wearing a helmet in a western class, too. I always wear a helmet because all my instructors required it until I was 18 and after that I felt naked without it. Most of the big barns in my town require them of anyone under 18 and virtually everyone at my barn wears one regardless of age.

What really gets me is the NH people who do not endorse it. 90% of their followers are novice (at best) riders often with inappropriate horses, and with the exception of Frank Bell, I have never heard one even mention helmets! That combined with Linda Parelli's asinine comment that her horses are so well trained that she would never need one drives me a little nuts.

Rancher
Nov. 5, 2007, 10:34 PM
That combined with Linda Parelli's asinine comment that her horses are so well trained that she would never need one drives me a little nuts.


Does she really say that?? omg..well trained like this horse?? His head could have hit a rock or the fence. Only posting to show how easy it is to go down. No bashing of rider or horse please.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y6VlGi1K40I

unbridledoaks
Nov. 5, 2007, 10:46 PM
People who don't wear a helmet drive me nuts. They are the ones who get everyone in trouble, sue the horse show for everything they got because of their stupid mistakes. I know accidents happen in the horse world, it's a risk we all take, but when there is something that give you some protection, why not use it? I always preach helmets, they have saved me from time to time, and I will make sure that they are worn when people ride my horses or around me. It is the same with with Motorcycles. My Boyfriend and I were talking about it the other night because a neighboring state doesn't require helments but our state does. So we get the other state coming into our state, police pulling them over and then the people pitch a fit. Since he races motorcycles, he preaches them all the time.
People, it protects you! Doesn't your safety even matter?

Wellspotted
Nov. 5, 2007, 10:46 PM
Originally posted by Rancher--


I also have breakaway irons and taps on my western saddle.

Please explain what these are--breakaways on your western saddle? I am riding western these days and would love some sort of safety stirrups, but I don't know where to buy stirrup hoods (or tapaderos, "taps," I guess?).
Need some advice! :confused:

ddashaq
Nov. 5, 2007, 10:51 PM
Does she really say that?? omg..well trained like this horse?? His head could have hit a rock or the fence. Only posting to show how easy it is to go down. No bashing of rider or horse please.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y6VlGi1K40I

Yes. I heard it in an interveiw ages ago and had to pick my jaw up off the floor. The arrogance just blew me away. Regardless of riding ability, there is not a rider alive who can make a claim like that and not sound like a twit.

Rancher
Nov. 5, 2007, 11:59 PM
Originally posted by Rancher--



Please explain what these are--breakaways on your western saddle? I am riding western these days and would love some sort of safety stirrups, but I don't know where to buy stirrup hoods (or tapaderos, "taps," I guess?).
Need some advice! :confused:


Sorry! I meant breakaway irons on my English saddle and taps on my western saddle. I used to work at a guest ranch and they had taps for all 56 horses. They just cut thick leather into the right shape and screwed it onto the stirrups. The bottom of the 'tap' was thick plastic, like the lid of a 5 gallon pail. You couldn't see the plastic when you were riding. After riding all summer in them and feeling safe I had to get my own pair. I actually bought a pair from the guest ranch. Now when I change saddles I move them over to the other saddle. I don't care if they don't match.

greysandbays
Nov. 6, 2007, 12:25 AM
No, the OP is doing the most selfish thing a rider (or any human) can do -- expecting the world to conform her standards of behavior in order to assuage her quibbles and fears.

If you are that easily scairt by other people's behavior, I'm sure there's an institution somewhere that can protect you from the world.

The very same people who are "PREACHING" hellfire and brimstone about this perceived safety thing and expecting the world to see the light are precisely those who would be the first to raise holy hell if religious people expressed the same concern for their soul and PREACHED on how they should be doing this or that or the other thing in order to go to Heaven instead of Hell. The idea of a human soul going to hell scares the devoutly religious just as much as somebody dying of a brain injury scares the sort of person who posts threads like this one. If we aren't willing to give those fears any credence, we should get a grip on our own and leave people alone to their choices and mind our own business.

molliwog
Nov. 6, 2007, 12:41 AM
No, the OP is doing the most selfish thing a rider (or any human) If we aren't willing to give those fears any credence, we should get a grip on our own and leave people alone to their choices and mind our own business.


I'm not sure this is quite what the OP means.

And although the religious folks may be scared for my soul, if I choos not to embrace their faith doesn't really affect them, since my choice doesn't mean that THEY will go to hell.

So....if I take this literally, and encounter you unconscious (and for the sake of this example, helmetless, although I don't know whether you regularly wear one or not) in a parking lot after you've just fallen from your horse, should I just ignore your prone body, mind my own business, and leave you to your choice? Or would you expect me to act and perhaps summon some aid for you?

greysandbays
Nov. 6, 2007, 01:01 AM
I'm not sure this is quite what the OP means.

And although the religious folks may be scared for my soul, if I choos not to embrace their faith doesn't really affect them, since my choice doesn't mean that THEY will go to hell.

So....if I take this literally, and encounter you unconscious (and for the sake of this example, helmetless, although I don't know whether you regularly wear one or not) in a parking lot after you've just fallen from your horse, should I just ignore your prone body, mind my own business, and leave you to your choice? Or would you expect me to act and perhaps summon some aid for you?

You are very, very wrong on that one -- about it "doesn't really affect them". To the very religious, the idea of a soul going to hell is as horrifying as the idea of a horse going to slaughter is to the predominant faction on this forum. Like hypocrits, we ferverently embrace on set of horrors (our own) and just as ferverently dismiss another (that we refuse to acknowledge as valid). If we are of mind to squelch people who wish to worry about our soul, we shouldn't be taking liberties with preaching behavior change according to our own petty fears and expect to be taken seriously.

Your example is irrelevent and speaks to a different issue. Helping someone who didn't behave as you thought proper is not even in the same ball park as expecting to be allowed to control which choices people make.

Dance_To_Oblivion
Nov. 6, 2007, 02:00 AM
Take it a little further...the time those emergency personal are working on the injured person when it is quite probable that other people need their assistance as well. Then what happens if the injured person has no health insurance...who ends up paying for the thousands in hospital bills? It all trickles down to the rest of us one way or another. I can't figure out how it is a nuisance to wear a helmet and why someone would object when it can prevent injury.

Kenike
Nov. 6, 2007, 02:04 AM
Oh good grief :rolleyes:

All I know is that I didn't use to wear a helmet everytime I rode (though I've always made sure to have one everytime I jumped. Unapproved for part of my life, which wasn't much...but at least I did something), then had a horse stumble and fall while I was walking him out. We were both fine, but it was the lightbulb I needed.

About a year, maybe 1 1/2 yrs later, same horse stumbled and went down with his owner while she was walking him out. She DID have an approved helmet on, but she was also still really hurt. Safe to say the helmet is the only reason she's still alive, or at the very least, not a complete vegetable.

My boy somehow ended up on a horse tonight...without a helmet. He's 16 months, so obviously didn't get there by himself. Needless to say, I very bluntly put the brakes on his little ride (the horse was also very misbehaved tonight...not a safe situation at all). His "friend" was hurt by my bluntness, but I don't give a rat's.

dwblover
Nov. 6, 2007, 02:23 AM
I agree with this post wholeheartedly. I cannot control what others do, nor do I want to! So I do not preach, but I do always suggest. I only do it once, but I will suggest to everyone that they wear a helmet and tell them one of the large number of stories I have about injuries due to a lack of a helmet. If they choose not to wear a helmet, then at least I know that I tried. I have actually gotten three people at my barn who never wore helmets before to start wearing them. So, it is well worth the effort. One of those people might be saved by that helmet. So the free choice people can get mad all they want. If you can reach one person, then you have made a difference.

BasqueMom
Nov. 6, 2007, 02:50 AM
To the OP--great post! Every once in a long while, I subcumb to the wind in my hair
urge. But far less often the older I get--just ain't worth it. I'll let the wind do its thing
while I untack.

Kit
Nov. 6, 2007, 04:35 AM
Helmets are compulsory for riding a bicycle - for heaven's sake, horses are much more unpredictable than bicycles! Just the same as I always wear solid footwear around horses, I always wear a helmet when riding and would not allow anyone to ride without one on my horse. As for children not wearing helmets...? Helloooo What are people thinking!!

JSwan
Nov. 6, 2007, 05:47 AM
MayS - I hope the rider is ok - hopefully it was just a concussion.

I still think safety helmets are a matter of personal choice - but I'd hope that folks make the "right" choice and wear one.

I also think safety vests are a personal choice as well - I find it odd that we always have these helmet threads about how they should be compulsory - yet folks never seem to want to make vests, breakaway stirrups, or other items compulsory as well.


As an aside - I overheard a person telling an adult beginner that "safety helmets were just for beginners - good riders don't need them". Leave it to a horse person to make such a silly distinction. :rolleyes:

county
Nov. 6, 2007, 07:01 AM
I don't use a helmet never have doubt I ever will. Could care less if people have a fit about it. Sure aren't the only one that doesn't last Dec. never saw one at the NCHA Championships and there were close to 1000 riders. Was at a roping last week and didn't see one, Team Penning a few weeks ago and didn't see any. Did see 2 at a Reining this summer but both people were sucking on a smoke so not exactly convinced their worried about health issues.

TwoArabs
Nov. 6, 2007, 07:27 AM
County,

Well, come see me shake and stumble. Just because those folks want to risk everything doesn't make it smart. I don't believe safety should be compulsory, it is just smart. Why would anyone risk giving up not just their life, but their livelihood, their abiity to ride, their relationships, etc. for the sake of being cool?

Please see my post on the other helmet thread. I try to live my life without regrets. That is one big regret, that day I rode without a helmet.

county
Nov. 6, 2007, 07:33 AM
ROTFLMAO Cool? Now thats a good one!!!! Heres a thought, maybe some people just don't want to wear one. Maybe they think its their business and not someone elses.

LisaB
Nov. 6, 2007, 07:46 AM
I think County and GandB are Gary Busey incarnate :D
There are always people who think it won't happen to them. And then when it does, they 'get it'. Just shut up! If you don't like helmets and it brings back some 'Mommie Dearest' moment for you, get off this post!
Unfortunately, their loved ones have to suffer their consequences like the OP stated.
I'm surprised that MD doesn't have a helmet law. I thought there was one. And they show grounds must not have had insurance. I don't know one insurance company who would allow that to happen with a kid's and low level show(meaning green riders and green horses).
Just last night, we were taking all these old posts and wire to the landfill. I was bent over picking up a post and the ones inside the truck came tumbling out. One smacked me in the back of the head. Not hard at all. Didn't even hurt but I immediately felt like I was going to throw up and kept tearing up. I wish I had my helmet on!

Priscilla
Nov. 6, 2007, 07:52 AM
After seeing numerous people suffering from head trauma, I always wear a helmet.
I've taken a few spills and if I wasn't wearing a helmet, I would have suffered serious injury.
Some people just don't "get it" and never will.:no:

carolprudm
Nov. 6, 2007, 08:03 AM
My mother had brain damage(from a tumor, not a fall)

Knowing what that was like I want to minimize my risks.

I took care of her for 18 years. There is no way I want to ask my family to do the same because I was to dumb to wear a helmet

gully's pilot
Nov. 6, 2007, 08:11 AM
It is a personal choice, yes. But it's also a choice of the people running the show to allow all those riders without helmets--to me, that's the real insanity of the situation. I was brought up from day one to never be on a horse without a helmet. I've had my bell rung once and was knocked unconscious once--both times during very straightforward rides on my home property--both times with a helmet on, thank God. I own a boarding barn now, and our rule, mandated by our insurance company as well as by me--approved helmet for every rider, period. My friend runs a few "fun" shows a year: approved helmets for every rider. Period. A bunch of people come to those shows from a big local Western barn, and they always wear helmets without protest. If the show makes it a condition, and you want to show, you find a helmet.

ChocoMare
Nov. 6, 2007, 08:14 AM
Always, always, always.

I like my brains where they are: firmly intact inside my cranium.... not leaking out and scrambled.

While a helmet has saved me from a few concussions, I watched it save my trainer, Pat's, life.

She was riding a friend's 8 y/o whackjob TB for her while said friend was on vacation. Since Pat's saddle was way too wide for the TB, she used her friend's saddle. She's working him on the flat for about 20 minutes. He's a little up but not too crazy. She takes him over a few cross rails...again, up but not bad. Then for whatever reason, the flowers under the 2' vertical were going to eat him. He went up, bucked and twisted in mid air thereby launching Pat sideways and flinging her out of the tack. Her head hit the steel jump cup on the corner. Her helmet shell was invaded by 1/4". Said hole was right above her ear.

Were it not for that jockey cap (this was back in 1981), she would have died right there and then. My eyes, ear and brain will NEVER EVER forget that site or sound. That memory is burned into my brain and is present every time I mount up.....with my ITH skull cap firmly ensconsed upon my head.

I, too, will firmly, yet politely, highly recommend to other adults to wear their helmet when I ride with them. If they say no, I drop it.

My lesson students have no choice, ever. If they show up without their helmet, well then it's stall cleaning day. :D

SleepyFox
Nov. 6, 2007, 08:29 AM
Ya know... this helmet thing just gets ridiculous. I ride racehorses - helmets are standard attire - nobody ever thinks about it, you just put one on before getting on a horse. And, it's never been an issue... until I moved to the rural south. I have actually been told by "friends" that they are embarassed to ride with me if I'm going to wear a helmet. Of course, in the next sentence, they mention they'd like me to put a ride in on their "crazy" horse for them (the one that they're terrified to get on), but better not wear a helmet because it just doesn't look cool.

And, if someone rides on MY farm, they'd better wear a helmet - yeah, I'm dictating to people, but I pay the insurance and I get to make the rules. ;) Unbelievably enough, I have had prospective employees state that they absolutely would not wear a helmet while working for me - to which I reply, then I absolutely will not hire you.

Now, I will get on a horse without a helmet, but most of my riding is on green or difficult horses or fit racehorses and I always wear a helmet with those. I'm not going to try to force other people to wear a helmet (unless you're riding my horse or riding at my farm), but I expect the same level of courtesy - making fun of someone for being safe is just rude and ignorant.

JSwan
Nov. 6, 2007, 08:30 AM
I'm kinda curious - for those of you who are helmet nazis and don't want your family to have to care for your brain injured body..... can't you extend your viewpoint a little to encompass riding horses at all? I mean, it's not like we have to use them for transportation.

If you are so vociferous in your opinion about helmets, why aren't you insisting everyone wear safety vests? Or breakaway stirrups? Or helmets worn when tacking up, leading, or otherwise handling a horse on the ground?

Don't get me wrong - I wear a certified helmet every ride. I even wear a helmet when I'm handling the youngster on the ground. (he's got a huge head and often whacks me good). My niece wears a certified helmet too - I insist upon it.

I'm just wondering why - every single time I read posts about how awful people are if they don't wear a certified helmet, why none of y'all are wearing, and insisting that other people wear or use - other safety equipment.

I've seen a heck of a lot of bad accidents on horses. Few involve head injuries. Many could have prevented or mitigated by the use of other safety equipment.

No one ever answers my question - and every single time I ask the same one. So - any takers this time?


Edited to add - sleepfox - I don't think it's a "southern" thing (though excessive heat and humidity may result in some folks taking theirs off or not wearing them, I guess). I've overheard people say the same thing - as if a certified helmet is some sort of evidence of incompetence or fear. How silly.

MistyBlue
Nov. 6, 2007, 08:36 AM
I agree with using all safety equipment as often as possible. :yes:
It would be nice if everyone did...help to minimize some risk in a risky sport/hobby.
I personally use as many safety precautions as possible...not out of fear for myself personally...but because I have too many livig things that depend on me. 3 girls...the animals....the wildlife I rehab....and my husband, bless him/love him, can't find the gallon of milk without my help. :D If I didn't use safety precautions...he might dehydrate. :lol:
If adults don't want to wear one...fine for them. I don't agree with their decision...but then I'm probably not agreeing with what they're wearing or their hairstyle either. ;)
As for comparing it to religion...I would assume the only religious folks wringing their hands over other people's souls are the zealots anyways. Nobody likes a zealot. :winkgrin:

Kcisawesome
Nov. 6, 2007, 08:42 AM
Great post!

I am not a "scared" rider, I gallop aroun bareback like the teenager I am. But I ALWAYS wear a helmet and 90% of the time I wear a vest! I have too much to live for and too many people dependent on me. My mom spends so much money on me to have a horse, compete and take lessons, wouldn't it be an AWFUL way for me to repay her by asking her to pay for a catscan or punctured lung?

Some people say that they love horses so much that they want to spend their last day on a horse. I say I love horses so much that I want to live to ride again another day.

Ounce I went on a charity trail ride. It was in a huge state park that huge numbers of week-end trail riders regularly go to.

As we walked through the camp grounds there were many people looking at us. One man called out to me " why doya wear that helmet? " I replyed, " So I can go to college!"

I've seen way too many cracked helmets and head-first falls NOT to wear a helmet. Helmets are secound-nature to me. I could ride butt-naked IF I had a helmet.


I don't understand why people CHOOSE not to. I personally think it looks terrible. The "hair-everywhere" look or the "baseball cap" look look SO bad and SO unprofesional. I avoid trainers who don't wear helmets. I have little respect for those who don't wear helmets. I have lost alot of respect for many upper-level riders who don't wear helmets schooling or in dressage. I have seen upper-level event horses rear and buck in the rolex dressage test. Any upper-level horse is an ATHLETE and sometimes horses loose it. PERIOD.

The trainer at a 4-H kids barn nearby drives me bonkers. there IS a helmet rule but hardly anyone enforces it. The trainer rides in tennis shoes, shorts and no helmet. And she rides young, green horses and deals with "problem horses".

WEAR YOUR BUBBLE-WRAP!

Foxhound
Nov. 6, 2007, 08:47 AM
I have heard that some health insurance companies (such as Tri-Care, which insures a lot of people in the military) won't cover your medical costs after a motorcycle accident if you are not wearing proper protective equipment at the time of the accident.
If you want to choose to not wear a helmet, fine. But you should also be prepared to take responsibility for your decision if you get hurt.
I have a feeling that if no helmet = higher insurance rates, more people would probably decide that they were a good idea.

JSwan
Nov. 6, 2007, 08:54 AM
Please - let's leave insurance companies out of this. They're already trying to disallow coverage for ANY injury resulting from high risk activities - whether or not you are using any safety equipment.

Yeah. All this stuff sounds great until it's used against us instead of the folks we're pointing fingers at. I don't really think you want insurance companies telling you what activities you can engage in. Because riding a horse is going to be at the top of the "denial of coverage" list. :no:




I have heard that some health insurance companies (such as Tri-Care, which insures a lot of people in the military) won't cover your medical costs after a motorcycle accident if you are not wearing proper protective equipment at the time of the accident.
If you want to choose to not wear a helmet, fine. But you should also be prepared to take responsibility for your decision if you get hurt.
I have a feeling that if no helmet = higher insurance rates, more people would probably decide that they were a good idea.

TwoArabs
Nov. 6, 2007, 08:56 AM
JSwan,

What would you say to someone you saw who was considering buying a firsky 2 year old colt for their 10 year old daughter that had never been on a horse before? What would you say to someone who was a green rider taking a young green horse out on a dangerous trail with only a few days training? No one wants to see anyone get hurt. Riding horses, any horse, is dangerous. Anyway the danger of injury can be reduced is a good thing.

JSwan
Nov. 6, 2007, 09:06 AM
JSwan,

What would you say to someone you saw who was considering buying a firsky 2 year old colt for their 10 year old daughter that had never been on a horse before? What would you say to someone who was a green rider taking a young green horse out on a dangerous trail with only a few days training? No one wants to see anyone get hurt. Riding horses, any horse, is dangerous. Anyway the danger of injury can be reduced is a good thing.


No shit. Geez - I never knew horses were dangerous. Thanks for the heads up.

And if you read my posts - you'd know that I wear a certified helmet every ride.

It's not my business to tell others what they should do. In the case of a frisky 2 year old colt for a kid - I'd say it's none of my freaking business to interfere between a seller and a buyer. And it's none of your business either. And it sure as hell isn't the business or an insurance company.

Kimberlee
Nov. 6, 2007, 09:18 AM
Every time, every ride. The risk is just not worth it to me. I do think it extremly selfish to not wear my helmet, end up a vegtable, and cause that kind of heartache to my family. How fair is that to them.

It is not how our actions affect us that we should consider, but how they will affect those around us.

---

Fiat Lux
Nov. 6, 2007, 09:25 AM
That combined with Linda Parelli's asinine comment that her horses are so well trained that she would never need one drives me a little nuts.

In fact, the woman that got hurt in the first post was on a horse that TRIPPED. Horses aren't perfect. They take bad steps. They fall. They step in holes they didn't see. They might even spook for a GOOD reason, like avoiding a snake bite. No amount of training can prevent these things.

Please, everyone, wear an ASTM/SEI approved helmet!

county
Nov. 6, 2007, 09:41 AM
I should get of this thread because I don't wear a helmet? I hadly think so some need to figure out what a public forum is.

People are being knocked because they wear a helmet? Where I haven't seen it? I have seen some pitching a fit because some don't. Personally I have no problems with people that wear them its totally their business just as its mine if I don't. Beleive it or not theres literally 100's of 1000's of riders who choose not to.

WildBlue
Nov. 6, 2007, 09:46 AM
I've actually been thinking quite a bit (especially since acquiring a mortgage and pets) about risks and selfishness. I can't help but think that if I was truly unselfish that I wouldn't ride fast, I wouldn't ride green or hot horses, I wouldn't play polo, I wouldn't jump logs, I wouldn't ride in groups, and I'd never, ever push the edge of my skill even a little bit. I would wrap myself in bubble wrap and amble slowly around an arena on a tranquilized pony. No, actually, I wouldn't be around such dangerously large and unpredictable animals at all.

I'm just musing, as a few others have done, about where people are comfortable drawing the line. A lot of people have taken a firm stand that, with use of a certain piece of safety equipment, any type of riding is fine because that one piece of safety equipment makes a rider 'safe'. It seems more than a little arbitrary.

JSwan
Nov. 6, 2007, 09:52 AM
I should get of this thread because I don't wear a helmet? I hadly think so some need to figure out what a public forum is.

People are being knocked because they wear a helmet? Where I haven't seen it? I have seen some pitching a fit because some don't. Personally I have no problems with people that wear them its totally their business just as its mine if I don't. Beleive it or not theres literally 100's of 1000's of riders who choose not to.

county - I just overheard that comment. I don't care if people wear them or not. It's up to them - or if they compete - up to the governing body for their sport. I've got more important things to worry about than if some dude in Idaho is wearing a helmet while going on a trail ride. Or Jane Doe down the road wears one while handling her youngsters.

I think it's silly to be critical either way. If a person wears one - great. If they don't - well - they know the risks and for whatever reason choose not to wear one. Oh well. I might consider nominating the person for a Darwin Award - but other than that - whatever floats your boat.


WildBlue - THANK YOU for your post. It does seem arbitrary. If I was truly concerned about my safety and being a burden upon my family should I become injured..... I'd not ride the darn horses at all. I certainly wouldn't foxhunt. Seems like the vociferous posters wear a helmet - - - but would never wear a vest during - god forbid - their dressage test?

Oh - I did read on another thread about Troxel coming out with a derby style helmet for saddleseat riders. Guess the price. 500$. 500% freakin dollars for a simple skullcap style helmet with a cover in the shape of a derby or other style of hat.

Can you believe that price? I'd love to wear a derby out foxhunting - but that price makes it out of reach for me. And I suspect - for many other folks. It's not new technology - why the exorbitant price??????

county
Nov. 6, 2007, 09:54 AM
Oh BTW I also have barb wire and high tensile fences. Very rarely ever put a horse in a stall, my horses live outside 24/7 even when its -30, I feed very very little grain and when I do its whole oats, I'm pro slaughter, and I think the AQHA is a good org. That ought to keep some of you busy the rest of the week whining.

SonnysMom
Nov. 6, 2007, 09:54 AM
Guess what lets not keep insurance out of this. I pay medical claims. One of the patients that I pay medical claims decided he didn't need to wear his helmet on his motorcycle. He fractured his skull when he hit a deer.

He is close to maxing out his $600,000 Life Time Maximum with his insurance through his union. He has applied for Medicaid. His decision to feel the wind thru his hair has affected somebody other than him- the taxpayers of his state. Oh, he went thru $500,000 of his lifetime maximum is the span of 3 months and is only 27 years old. He is still in a rehab hospital. The original 3 week hospital stay was $600,000 but we were able to get that negotiated down quite a bit. He will also likely qualify for Social Security disability so he decision will also affect most of you. Since once he qualifies for that he gets Social Security and Medicare paid for by our Federal taxes.

The way our society works our decision do affect other people than just the person that makes a poor decision and their family. More power to you if if you are like Bill Gates or Gov Corzine and can pay for all of your own medical care. Unless you are independently wealthy and will NEVER had the chance to tap into any social program such as Medicaid, Medicare then go for it.
Medical costs are absolutely spiraling out of control. I have had multiple patient's exceed their $1 million lifetime max. I normally have at least 1 per year. I have had one exceed her $2 million lifetime maximum. Once those lifetime max's are exceeded who do you think continues to pay the bills- either the taxpayers or worst case the hospital has to write it off. If the hospital has to write it off then all the other bills for all the other patients of that hospital get higher bills to absorb those costs.

Treatment of severe head injuries tends to be extremely expensive. I have one hospital that I just paid a claim on- The ICU charge is $13,000 per day. That does not include operating room fees, surgeons fees, diagnostics, supplies, implants, anesthesia, medications, oxygen, etc.... Hey a 3 week stay the Room charge alone will exceed a quarter of a million dollars. $273,000 to be exact.

Sorry for the rant but don't be naive to think that your choices don't necessarily effect me even if I have never and will never meet you.

county
Nov. 6, 2007, 09:57 AM
I knew a guy that hit a deer with his car and was in the hospital for a week and is also on disablity. Guess what? No helmet while driving his car either.

Auventera Two
Nov. 6, 2007, 09:59 AM
It's a matter of personal choice, no matter how drastically it might affect another person. I personally wear a helmet, and always will. But the truth is,

I could get thrown and stepped on in the chest and die in an instant leaving my husband and parents devestated.

I could break my neck and be paralyzed.

I could be thrown into barbed wire, sever an artery and die.

I could be in a car accident tomorrow and die.

My horse could bolt and run out in traffic getting us both hit by a semi truck.

The list goes on and on. Wearing a helmet protects one part of your body, and one part only. It does nothing to protect your trunk where your heart, lungs, and all other vital organs are located.

YES I WEAR A HELMET, and yes I thoroughly understand your anger over this situation, but the truth is, wearing a helmet is a false sense of security. It's only protecting ONE of the vital areas of your body. For all we know, when that horse went down, he might have kneed her in the chest and crushed her torso.

The fact is - any time we handle or ride a horse, we take a risk, helmet or no helmet. Two of the most horrible accidents I've ever heard of were from a person working with a horse on the ground. One woman was killed when the horse bolted out of the stall and stepped on her chest. The other woman was hospitalized for months when she was kicked in the face while blanketing a boarder's horse.

DressageGeek "Ribbon Ho"
Nov. 6, 2007, 09:59 AM
MAyS - preaching to the converted here. Anybody who knows anything at all about head injuries would agree.

And stupid things happen. Not even a spook - a trip, a wet leaf. That's all it takes, sometimes.

JSwan
Nov. 6, 2007, 10:03 AM
Guess what lets not keep insurance out of this. I pay medical claims. One of the patients that I pay medical claims decided he didn't need to wear his helmet.

The way our society works our decision do affect other people than just the person that makes a poor decision and their family. More power to you if if you are like Bill Gates or Gov Corzine and can pay for all of your own medical care. Unless you are independently wealthy and will NEVER had the chance to tap into any social program such as Medicaid, Medicare then go for it.
Medical costs are absolutely spiraling out of control. I have had multiple patient's exceed their $1 million lifetime max. I normally have at least 1 per year. I have had one exceed her $2 million lifetime maximum. Once those lifetime max's are exceeded who do you think continues to pay the bills- either the taxpayers or worst case the hospital has to write it off. If the hospital has to write it off then all the other bills for all the other patients of that hospital get higher bills to absorb those costs.

Treatment of severe head injuries tends to be extremely expensive. I have one hospital that I just paid a claim on- The ICU charge is $13,000 per day. That does not include operating room fees, surgeons fees, diagnostics, supplies, implants, anesthesia, medications, oxygen, etc.... Hey a 3 week stay the Room charge alone will exceed a quarter of a million dollars. $273,000 to be exact.

Sorry for the rant but don't be naive to think that your choices don't necessarily effect me even if I have never and will never meet you.



Well - guess what. Your job is to pay medical claims. So do your job and pay them. I'll let you in on another little secret. That's what insurance is FOR. Same with disability.

When someone gets hurt, sick or killed - it's a tragedy and a sadness. Not an opportunity for insurance companies to compile stats so they can lobby for laws that permit them to deny coverage.

How's that for a run on sentence. Oh - and if you get hurt while riding your horse - you do know that there will be some insurance company employee pointing out how awful it is that they have to pay your claim when you were purposefully doing something so dangerous?

Puhuleeze - just cut the checks and let folks live and ruin their lives without the benefit of the tsks tsks and finger wagging.

pAin't_Misbehavin'
Nov. 6, 2007, 10:04 AM
I'm also in the rural South, and since I left the riding school I'm the one and only rider with a helmet for miles around. Oh, wait, there is one more, but she just moved here and she only does it cause her husband makes her.:)

Nobody makes fun of me, at least not to my face, but I think sometimes people make judgments about my horses based on the fact that I wear a helmet even when I'm working with them on the ground. The farrier and the vet both visibly blanched the first time they came to do my horses and I appeared in a helmet. I'm sure they thought they'd be battling the Black Stallion or something.:lol: (My boys are so wild the farrier doesn't even use a halter or lead rope anymore.:winkgrin:)

I guess it's Linda Parelli syndrome, thinking one doesn't need safety equipment unless the horse is unsafe. Well, heck, they all are, aren't they? Even with the best of equine intentions, horses weigh a a half ton or so and are hard-wired to run first and ask questions waaay later, after they've flattened everything in their path.

I agree with the OP, that it is selfish of riders not to wear a helmet. But far be it from me to force anyone to do so. In a way, it helps me to know what sort of a horseperson I'm dealing with. In my area, if I see an instructor or trainer wearing a helmet, then I'm interested in finding out if that person shares more of my views on horsemanship. If I see an instructor or trainer riding without a helmet, then I know without wasting my time or theirs that we're unlikely to be a good match.

Tory Relic
Nov. 6, 2007, 10:06 AM
It's a matter of personal choice, no matter how drastically it might affect another person. I personally wear a helmet, and always will. But the truth is,

I could get thrown and stepped on in the chest and die in an instant leaving my husband and parents devestated.

I could break my neck and be paralyzed.

I could be thrown into barbed wire, sever an artery and die.

I could be in a car accident tomorrow and die.

My horse could bolt and run out in traffic getting us both hit by a semi truck.

The list goes on and on. Wearing a helmet protects one part of your body, and one part only. It does nothing to protect your trunk where your heart, lungs, and all other vital organs are located.

YES I WEAR A HELMET, and yes I thoroughly understand your anger over this situation, but the truth is, wearing a helmet is a false sense of security. It's only protecting ONE of the vital areas of your body. For all we know, when that horse went down, he might have kneed her in the chest and crushed her torso.

The fact is - any time we handle or ride a horse, we take a risk, helmet or no helmet. Two of the most horrible accidents I've ever heard of were from a person working with a horse on the ground. One woman was killed when the horse bolted out of the stall and stepped on her chest. The other woman was hospitalized for months when she was kicked in the face while blanketing a boarder's horse.

Yep. It all happens.

county
Nov. 6, 2007, 10:07 AM
Linda Parilli syndrome? Theres been people ridsing without helmets since way before she was born I'd hardly blame it on her.

pAin't_Misbehavin'
Nov. 6, 2007, 10:11 AM
Linda Parilli syndrome? Theres been people ridsing without helmets since way before she was born I'd hardly blame it on her.

I'm not blaming her for people riding without helmets.:) There was a quote earlier in the thread that LP said her horse was so well-trained she didn't need to wear a helmet. So I'd call the notion that one needs to wear a helmet only around high-risk horses "Linda Parelli syndrome."

Although I suspect in LP's case this is a marketing ploy, e.g. "spend money for my training videos and you too can ride free with the wind tousling your locks."

county
Nov. 6, 2007, 10:15 AM
Oh I think any person on any horse can have an accident just as any driver in any car can. I don't wear one while driving either.

yellow-horse
Nov. 6, 2007, 10:16 AM
i posted on the other thread as well, i wear my helmet, so does my husband both of us have avoided serious injury and my husband i'm sure would have been dead because of helmets
on the other hand i don't think for adults there should be any kind of laws requiring helmets, i think event organizers can decide what kind of liability they want to risk and decide who rides at their facility but otherwise i don't care what adult wears a helmet or not
if anyone rides at my place, they have to have a helmet,they can take it off and chuck in the woods when they leave for all i care

Rancher
Nov. 6, 2007, 10:20 AM
Oh I think any person on any horse can have an accident just as any driver in any car can. I don't wear one while driving either.

But I would hope you would be wearing your seatbelt.

MandyVA
Nov. 6, 2007, 10:21 AM
Society is all about pressuring individuals to conform with what is best for the common good. I don't like being told not to drive 90 miles an hour down the parkway. It should be my personal choice. I don't like being cut off at Applebees after I've had a few pitchers with my friends, but hey, being DIP is against the law. We walk everywhere around here so don't get your panties in a wad, GripesandBitches.

My point is shut up about wearing a helmet being a personal choice. It may not be the law and your head may not explode and kill everyone around you if you don't wear it, and for some of you putting us all out of our misery from your illogical posts would be a good thing. But if you interact with other people they're going to pressure you to conform to what's best for you and everyone else, and that means wear a helmet. If you don't like that, go back to your cave.

It's irreleveant that you could be stepped on somewhere else or die in some freak accident even with a helmet on. Your chances of a serious injury are greatly reduced when you wear a helmet, so you can expect your peers to look down on your stupidity for not wearing one, just like they would chastise you for walking through capitol hill after dark alone or texting while driving.

county
Nov. 6, 2007, 10:24 AM
I have a better idea why not you go back to your cave instead then you can stomp your feet and hold your breath till you turn blue if you want. Doubt its going to make anyone wear a helmet though..

Of course I wear a seat belt its the law in this state wearing a helmet isn't.

Rancher
Nov. 6, 2007, 10:25 AM
It's not my business to tell others what they should do. In the case of a frisky 2 year old colt for a kid - I'd say it's none of my freaking business to interfere between a seller and a buyer. And it's none of your business either. And it sure as hell isn't the business or an insurance company.

What? If you knew of someone who didn't know any better and they were going to buy a frisky 2 year old colt for a child you wouldn't say anything?? You actually wouldn't? If I overheard someone anywhere that was about to do that I would sure speak up! I would hate to hear on the news the next week that a child was bucked off, dragged and killed when I maybe could have done something to prevent it. I dunno...maybe it's just me.....

jilltx
Nov. 6, 2007, 10:27 AM
I don't know...I personally feel it would be tragic and heartwrenching to witness ANY serious injury.

Really, hasn't this topic been done-to-death???? :sigh:

Rancher
Nov. 6, 2007, 10:28 AM
I have a better idea why not you go back to your cave instead then you can stomp your feet and hold your breath till you turn blue if you want. Doubt its going to make anyone wear a helmet though..

Of course I wear a seat belt its the law in this state wearing a helmet isn't.


Are you telling me to go back to my cave? I personally don't CARE if you don't wear your helmet. You are an adult. I think...

So the only reason you wear your seatbelt is because it's against the law not to? Okay, got it.

JSwan
Nov. 6, 2007, 10:31 AM
What? If you knew of someone who didn't know any better and they were going to buy a frisky 2 year old colt for a child you wouldn't say anything?? You actually wouldn't? If I overheard someone anywhere that was about to do that I would sure speak up! I would hate to hear on the news the next week that a child was bucked off, dragged and killed when I maybe could have done something to prevent it. I dunno...maybe it's just me.....


Uh - yeah. I wouldn't interfere. Would I tell them I need to verify the correct spelling of their name so I can nominate them for a Darwin Award? Probably.

I know lots of people and I have opinions as to what they should or shouldn't do. Is it my business to interfere in their lives? Hell no. Neither is it yours. For all you know the "frisky 2 year old" is going right from the sale barn to a professional trainer for 9 months.

A friend asking for advice or a quiet word when taking someone aside ain't the same as what y'all are advocating. Y'all are saying that you want everyone to be just like you. Anyone who isn't "like you", isn't doing the right thing. Bull.

A lot of you are teetering dangerously on your soapboxes - better wear your helmets. :rolleyes:


jilltx - you're right - this topic has been done to death. Too many folks on this BB like to throw their halo's around too much. Too much moralizing -it's tiresome. Regardless of how or why a rider gets injured - it is a great sadness.

county
Nov. 6, 2007, 10:37 AM
Rancher I dson't see where I told you to go back to your cave I do see where I told the person to that told me the same.

Also don't see wherre I said the only reason I wear a seat belt is its the law. Thats something you made up yourself for what ever reason.

Got it?

luise
Nov. 6, 2007, 10:38 AM
Well, I didn't read through the entire thread, and I'm sure someone will have a problem with what I'm going to say, but just 2 words:
Natural Selection

Rancher
Nov. 6, 2007, 10:40 AM
Uh - yeah. I wouldn't interfere. Would I tell them I need to verify the correct spelling of their name so I can nominate them for a Darwin Award? Probably.

I know lots of people and I have opinions as to what they should or shouldn't do. Is it my business to interfere in their lives? Hell no. Neither is it yours. For all you know the "frisky 2 year old" is going right from the sale barn to a professional trainer for 9 months.

A friend asking for advice or a quiet word when taking someone aside ain't the same as what y'all are advocating. Y'all are saying that you want everyone to be just like you. Anyone who isn't "like you", isn't doing the right thing. Bull.

A lot of you are teetering dangerously on your soapboxes - better wear your helmets. :rolleyes:


I wasn't saying I want everyone to be just like me! I personally wear a helmet because I want to. I worked at a guest ranch all last summer taking out guests on packtrips. I was the only person to wear a helmet except for some European guests who's insurance wouldn't cover them if they were not wearing helmets. There were helmets in the barn. I made sure every guest was aware that they were there, but I never suggested that anyone put one on except the children. Where I come from it's okay to talk to strangers in public, interrupt their conversations, and make comments on things. Me getting into 'someones business' would just be seen as normal. Everyone does it. Must be a local thing. :D

Trakehner
Nov. 6, 2007, 10:41 AM
Helmets, Seat Belts, Condoms...

All free choice
All have consequences if you don't use em'
All cost everyone else money if you choose not to use em'

Get hurt, no helmet and you become a drooling vegetable...we have to pay for your future care. Not good.

Car accident, your head into the windshield, drooling veg...we have to pay for your future care. Not good.

No condom, no husband, gee a kid or three!....we have to pay for their future care...really not good!

We all get to pay for stupid choices...

Rancher
Nov. 6, 2007, 10:43 AM
Rancher I dson't see where I told you to go back to your cave I do see where I told the person to that told me the same.

Also don't see wherre I said the only reason I wear a seat belt is its the law. Thats something you made up yourself for what ever reason.

Got it?


Sorry! I thought you were talking to me. My bad. And yes. I got it!

JSwan
Nov. 6, 2007, 10:47 AM
I wasn't saying I want everyone to be just like me! I personally wear a helmet because I want to. I worked at a guest ranch all last summer taking out guests on packtrips. I was the only person to wear a helmet except for some European guests who's insurance wouldn't cover them if they were not wearing helmets. There were helmets in the barn. I made sure every guest was aware that they were there, but I never suggested that anyone put one on except the children. Where I come from it's okay to talk to strangers in public, interrupt their conversations, and make comments on things. Me getting into 'someones business' would just be seen as normal. Everyone does it. Must be a local thing. :D


Some folks (the same ones) do say that. I think luise summed it up best: Natural Selection. Yup.

Around here, we preface insults or "comments", with a "Bless your heart". Really. I was talking to a neighbor (who runs the gas station), and we were talking about who was doing what - and I got embarrassed and said - uh - well - you know I have no life and like to spy on my neighbors - that's why I know these things. (local gossip)

He laughed and said - well then, you're just like the rest of the folks in town.

I understand what you are saying; personally, I wear my helmet. When I was a kid - there was not such thing except a hunt cap. So I wore that.
I also wear a seatbelt, test my smoke/CO2 detector, change the batteries, have backup power, stocked pantry in the winter, know how to drive in the snow, do CPR, etc.

I just realize that not all folks are like that and well - there comes a point where you have to accept that folks do things and get hurt or killed or maimed and no one gets out alive.

Besides - if I wanted everyone to be like me - what would we argue about on BB's? We just post "I agree" to every thread. Boring!

cholmberg
Nov. 6, 2007, 10:47 AM
I knew a guy that hit a deer with his car and was in the hospital for a week and is also on disablity. Guess what? No helmet while driving his car either.

Wow, I guess you don't eat either, because you might get food poisoning? Or do you take appropriate precautions with your food so you don't make yourself sick? How about your water? How about driving? Do you drive around recklessly without a seatbelt in a car that you do not maintain? Or do you wear a seatbelt and follow traffic laws in a car you make sure you keep in proper running order to minimize your risk of accident? Sound absurd? Same as the argument you are making above. Don't you take appropriate safety precautions?

No one said bad things can't happen if you are wearing a helmet. But the majority of equine related fatalities is TBI. Armed with this knowledge; why wouldn't you take a little bit of precaution to protect your brain from TBI? If the guy you are talking about was driving the appropriate speed for time of day and the road he was on, and wearing a seatbelt.. . .then he took appropriate precaution and yes, still got injured in a freak accident. You can't control if the deer pops out in front of you, but you certainly can control if you are driving safely and wearing a seatbelt in a car that has tires/brakes/belts properly maintained to minimize your risk of dying in that freak accident. The leading cause of death in auto accidents is being ejected from the vehicle, so most people wear seatbelts to minimize their risk of dying, do people still die in auto accidents? yes. But that's no reason to not wear a seatbelt because you might get into an accident where the seatbelt won't help you. I can't control if my horse spooks, dumps me, trips, etc. . . but I -can- tip the odds of surviving a very bad fall in my favor by wearing a brain bucket (my DH's term for them).

And others are right. Yes it's a choice of adults to wear helmets or let their children ride w/o them. . .but that choice DOES affect other people in the form of having to pick up the tab for their medical care if they max out their insurance or don't have insurance. No one has to ride around on drugged horses in bubble wrap, but if you know head injuries are the biggest risk, I'd think you'd want to put on your skid lid.

Jumping13
Nov. 6, 2007, 10:48 AM
I try to always wear a helmet when riding. To me, I feel safer and more confident and that makes my time in the saddle more productive and worthwhile. I never got the reason why people don't want to wear a helmet, especially H/J or event riders...it is a staple and required of competition..but I'm not a psychologist and am not going to fret over the whys of other people's choices.

I will say, that in some disciplines, like reining, dressage, saddle seat, even bull riding riders do not wear helmets of any kind ( in general) and certainly in the days of outside courses and military involvement in international equestrian competitions riders hard hats were not always worn.

I just wonder what people's takes are on those disciplines where riders compete sans hard hat?

SleepyFox
Nov. 6, 2007, 10:53 AM
The farrier and the vet both visibly blanched the first time they came to do my horses and I appeared in a helmet. I'm sure they thought they'd be battling the Black Stallion or something.:lol:

I have the best mental vision of this! :lol:

My thing is: I have no problem with knowledgeable horse people (like County, for example) make the choice to not wear a helmet. To continue to pick on County (sorry, County), I think he knows the pros and cons of helmets and has made an informed choice that he is comfortable with. That's cool by me.

What is not so cool by me is people like LP and a lot of our local "experts" who claim that helmets are only for people who don't trust their horse/complete idiots/etc. What can you possibly gain by telling people that they should NOT wear a helmet??

And, what I don't get is the people who gripe and complain when I insist they wear a helmet to ride, or assist with young horses, at my farm (not because it hurts or anything, but because it looks uncool). I mean, really - what do they think is going to happen? Fabio or the Marlboro Man is going to come galloping out of the back pasture on a firey black stallion (actually, more likely a paunchy grey gelding, since that is what lives there) to sweep them away to a fairy tale life of perfection and happiness only to come to a sliding stop (said firey steed is a reining horse), saying "Blech! Me no likey bubble head!" and gallop away leaving said friend disappointed in a cloud of dust??? I have a private farm: no one is going to see you, humor me and be safe and help me keep my insurance happy and premiums low(ish). :lol:

JSwan
Nov. 6, 2007, 10:54 AM
I just wonder what people's takes are on those disciplines where riders compete sans hard hat?

I think some of it may be ego (like the comment about how only beginner riders wear helmets). Or just cultural. I didn't grow up wearing them - they didn't exist as far as I knew.

Bull riding - I could be mistaken but I think I've seen some of the guys wearing some sort of protective vest with a roll at the neck. I don't know much about it - but it appears that they are attempting to protect from whiplash injuries or goring? Perhaps their risks are more along those lines than head injuries?

Saddleseat - Troxel is making a derby style certified helmet - but it's 500$. Plus - the harness is black - you'd think they'd offer it in different flesh tones (brown, black, ivory/peach). The price - yowza. I've had to replace my helmet twice in 5 years - I couldn't imagine shelling out 1000$. So until the price comes down - I'll be wearing the hunt style helmet for foxhunting instead of the more appropriate derby.

county
Nov. 6, 2007, 11:32 AM
So cholmberg I assume from your post you do wear a helmet when driving? I mean you could certainly tip the odds of a head injury from a car accident by wearing a helmet. Why would you not do so if your concerned about it?

DopyDgz
Nov. 6, 2007, 11:42 AM
I get so angry and those who argue 'It's a personal choice', as if they alone will be effected if they are killed or injured for want of a helmet. This perspective completely overlooks the following facts:

- If you are killed, or if you're injuries result in permament incapacitation, you will no longer be able to work. This means you will no longer be making whatever contribution to society your job propvided. You also will no longer be able to pay your fare share of taxes. You will also be very likely to need some sort of public or subsidized assitance.

- you will raise insurance rates for the rest of us.

- If incapacitated, you will be a burden to your family.

like it or not, you are both part of a family and part of a society. How you live your life effects both.

There is NO excuse for not taking the simple and reasonable precaution of wearing a helmet. Do it for your loved ones if not for yourself.

cholmberg
Nov. 6, 2007, 11:42 AM
So cholmberg I assume from your post you do wear a helmet when driving? I mean you could certainly tip the odds of a head injury from a car accident by wearing a helmet. Why would you not do so if your concerned about it?

No county. I wear a SEATBELT while I drive. Even across a parking lot. The leading cause of death in AUTO ACCIDENTS is being EJECTED or your head slamming the windshield, both things that wearing a seat belt (as well as air bags) can greatly reduce. I know several people, one a family member who would be alive today if they'd only had on a seatbelt (not a helmet, a seatbelt, a helmet doesn't do your body any good if you are thrown violently from the car in a crash) So I wear a seatbelt, and so does anyone who rides in my car, no excuses. If I was driving in NASCAR, yep, I'd be wearing a helmet when I drove. If I'm on a motorcycle, yes, I'd have a full face helmet on.

The greatest risk of death while *horseback riding* is head injury. So I cover my head up with a helmet. It's not hard to understand. But we shall just have to agree to disagree.

county
Nov. 6, 2007, 11:45 AM
So cholmberg if you actually beleive we should agree to disagree the reason for your original post directed to me was?

WildBlue
Nov. 6, 2007, 11:48 AM
I just wonder what people's takes are on those disciplines where riders compete sans hard hat?

I grew up in a helmetless area. I'd literally been riding for 12+ years before I saw my first riding helmet, and that was on a little kid. I was in graduate school before I started riding with people who wore helmets. And thanks to their NON PUSHY and NON JUDGEMENTAL example, I bought and started wearing a helmet myself.

Until that point, it mostly wasn't as much a conscious "I don't want to wear a helmet so I won't" decision as it was helmets not even being on the radar screen. "Safe" was wearing proper boots and double-checking your girth.

I did say 'mostly', though. ;) As much as there is a cherished stereotype of the redneck yahoo western rider, there is also a cherished stereotype of the snotty, afraid to ride outside the arena english rider. And heaven knows nobody wants to be like "them".

I would encourage everyone tempted to put on their judgey-pants (and helmet) and climb up on the soapbox to consider whether their attitude is likely to encourage people to join them in putting on a hot, uncomfortable, fugly brain bucket--or not. I mean, unless you're just in it to pat yourself on the back, in which case I would strongly encourage donning a safety vest to avoid bruising your precious self. :p

shireluver
Nov. 6, 2007, 11:57 AM
Of all the injuries I have had around horses, not one involved my head in anyway.

I think the odds are in your favor that when holding your horse for the vet or farrier you have a better chance of being struck by lightening on a sunny day, then having your horse rear up and stomp your head in. So, do you walk around with a lightening rod up you a$$ for protection too?

The arguements to wear a helmet at all times you MAY encounter a horse make absolutely no sense to me.

Then again, I am a smoker, so self preservation isn't high on my list. :lol:

As for the original post, I hope the lady is okay.

Wellspotted
Nov. 6, 2007, 11:58 AM
Thanks, Rancher! If I can't find any I'll try the leather shop here; maybe they could make me some.

As for the helmet/religion thing, I think WildBlue's example is a good one--setting a good example. If you really believe something, do it, focus on it, maybe other people will see and like it and start to do the same.

I'll just add: Gospel according to Luke, Chapter 12, verses 4-7.

TwoArabs
Nov. 6, 2007, 12:00 PM
I reeally don't judge folks at all, after all I was once a no helmet rider. I do, however, tell them my story and let them draw their own conclusions. I have been on disability a little over 5 years. I also receive Medicare. The surgery I had in April cost a pproximateloy $35,000. Also, the medication run me approximately $350 per month. Forget what it costs the taxpayer. What that ride without a helmet has cost me financally, personally and healthwise is incredible. I feel responsible to let others know exactly the risk that they are taking. If I had had a helmet on that day, my life would be very much different today.

JSwan
Nov. 6, 2007, 12:05 PM
- you will raise insurance rates for the rest of us.

- If incapacitated, you will be a burden to your family.

like it or not, you are both part of a family and part of a society. How you live your life effects both.




So I'm going to assume from your post that you have decided to take one for the team and give up riding altogether. Because as you know, equestrians also suffer from low back pain - one of the major reasons people call in sick to work. Also - treatment for low back pain is expensive, as is treatment from all other horse related injuries and accidents. Rotator cuff tear, spinal cord injuries, chronic back pain (different types), lacerated spleen, liver, oh - more broken bones - those happen a lot.

I'd very much like you to give up riding so my insurance rates go down. Also, please refrain from eating any food that is more than 5% fat, refrain from driving, and do anything else that might result in your being a burden to your family or a drain on the poor insurance companies. Please do not take up tennis, either. Those people are a taking up too much of an ortho's time - what will all those repetitive motion injuries. Same thing with running - you know it's bad for your knees and you might have a heart attack. How dare you engage in activity that might result in an injury? Think of the children!

Give it a rest. It's an old tune - and a stale one. Wear it - don't wear it. I really don't care what people do. If they want to skydive - more power to 'em. Deep sea diving? Go for it. Watch out for sharks. Fly personal aircraft? I think you're crazy. But whatever - if it's what you want to do - have a nice flight.

cholmberg
Nov. 6, 2007, 12:06 PM
So cholmberg if you actually beleive we should agree to disagree the reason for your original post directed to me was?


because you were making an absurd comparison. Hitting a deer that pops out in front of your car if you aren't speeding and wearing a seatbelt is a freak accident. Using it in a debate about riding with/without helmets is silly. Apples and oranges. It's a statement that has no bearing on the conversation at hand. It's like saying I shouldn't breathe because second hand smoke is dangerous, or I walk because I might trip, or eat because I might get food poisoning, A deer is a -wildcard-. An unknown. You cannot prevent it. Protecting your head while you knowingly participate in an activity where the highest cause of death is head injury is -totally- different than a deer popping out in front of your car and thus you shouldn't drive.

I'm trying to point out that most people take appropriate safety precautions, and I -know- you aren't obtuse you simply love to play devil's advocate. I refrigerate meat and cook it to safe temperatures to reduce my family's chance of food born illness, ditto with eggs. I wear a seatbelt in a car that I keep safely tuned and maintained and drive the speed limit. I keep medicines and chemicals locked up where my toddlers cannot reach them. I wear a helmet when I ride and make sure my daughter does the same, as well as anyone who ever swings a leg over one of my horses.

If you choose to ride w/o a helmet, that's your choice. but don't say that it doesn't affect the rest of society. . .because if you turn yourself into a vegetable, it certainly does. No one I know has the cash to pay for such an injury, even with insurance. . they are going to be on the public dime eventually. And if a $40 helmet could have prevented it?

county
Nov. 6, 2007, 12:10 PM
Silly cholmberg? I think your entire post is a joke. And exactly how is hitting a deer a frak accident? In this area right at 35% of all accidents involveing cars are deer related sure is alot of freak accidents. A burden on society? So if your wearing a helmet and get say a broken spine in a horse accident aren't you a burden?

JSwan
Nov. 6, 2007, 12:11 PM
I reeally don't judge folks at all, after all I was once a no helmet rider. I do, however, tell them my story and let them draw their own conclusions. I have been on disability a little over 5 years. I also receive Medicare. The surgery I had in April cost a pproximateloy $35,000. Also, the medication run me approximately $350 per month. Forget what it costs the taxpayer. What that ride without a helmet has cost me financally, personally and healthwise is incredible. I feel responsible to let others know exactly the risk that they are taking. If I had had a helmet on that day, my life would be very much different today.


I'm sorry for you - but I should point out that a helmet didn't save Christopher Reeve.

A helmet didn't save me from a back injury. Or a year in PT and still getting surgery.

Your story is tragic - and one that is not uncommon in the horse world. Even from those who did wear a helmet. Or protective vest. But that is why we have things like insurance, disability, Medicare and other safety nets. If you had not been on a horse to begin with - you would not have been injured at all. What conclusion can people draw from that? Riding horses is dangerous? We know that. Some people manage that risk differently than others. I may not agree with it - but I don't think any less of them for it. I certainly don't think less of you, or think that you should be denied health care, just because you made a different decision that I would have.

Rebe
Nov. 6, 2007, 12:15 PM
I am now an "every time, every ride" helmet wearer, and it's a lot easier to do for one simple reason: you can get a comfortable, ventilated (and therefore COOL), ASTM-approved helmet for about 30 bucks these days. So if you're complaining about "expensive and hot and uncomfortable," you'll get no sympathy from me. And I won't give you the story about how one of these cheap helmets saved my life - just be assured that it did.

But there are two occasions when I wasn't wearing a helmet that I find, well, interesting.

First, many years ago, when I was young and foolish, I went horseback riding cross country in Australia (and if you ever get the chance, do it!). I succumbed to the very intense peer pressure to NOT wear a helmet - but I did wear a nice floppy brimmed leather hat to protect from the sun and rain. As our group rounded a corner of the pub we were leaving (I told you, if you get the chance...), the floppy brim prevented me from seeing the corner eave of the building. The person behind me hollered LOUD to duck, and saved me from bashing my head in, at the walk (OK, a forward walk), on a bar in the Outback. :lol:

The second instance was a couple of years ago, when I saddled up my nice TB, put on my half chaps, pulled on my gloves, mounted up and ambled up to the arena. After one lap at the trot, I realized that my helmet was still sitting next to my grooming box in the barn aisle. [Poorly disguised public service announcement: because the helmet is so lightweight and comfortable, it took me that long to realize it wasn't on.] A friend hanging out at the rail went down to the barn to get my helmet for me (so I didn't have to risk going down the steep muddy path) while we stood there next to the fence that bordered the pasture - the fence that had new hotwire installed and turned on THAT DAY. As my nice, silly TB looked around, I realized that his poor, innocent, uninformed nose was less than an inch from that wire - and I knew that if he touched it, it was Gonna Be Ugly - and me helmetless! I moved him away and everything was fine, but I've never had such a brainless :lol: moment again.

Ya just never know...

pAin't_Misbehavin'
Nov. 6, 2007, 12:17 PM
what do they think is going to happen? Fabio or the Marlboro Man is going to come galloping out of the back pasture on a firey black stallion (actually, more likely a paunchy grey gelding, since that is what lives there) to sweep them away to a fairy tale life of perfection and happiness only to come to a sliding stop (said firey steed is a reining horse), saying "Blech! Me no likey bubble head!" and gallop away leaving said friend disappointed in a cloud of dust???

:lol: Now I have an image of Fabio on a pauncy grey gelding. Thanks!:cool:

I think resistance to helmets is largely an image thing, at least with my local horse folk. I live maybe a mile from my nearest horse neighbor. Half a mile of that is dirt road and the other half is a paved but lightly-travelled farm-to-market road. She will only trailer, not ride, to my house.

Why, you ask? She's afraid to ride her (somewhat spooky) horse on pavement, in case she falls and hits her head. Will she wear a helmet? No, they're hot and make her head sweat. Far easier to hook up the trailer, load the horse, burn the gas to get to my house, then unload the horse. I'm sure she doesn't break a sweat doing that.

cholmberg
Nov. 6, 2007, 12:20 PM
Silly cholmberg? I think your entire post is a joke. And exactly how is hitting a deer a frak accident? In this area right at 35% of all accidents involveing cars are deer related sure is alot of freak accidents. A burden on society? So if your wearing a helmet and get say a broken spine in a horse accident aren't you a burden?

Freak accident = one that *cannot be prevented*. You cannot control if a deer pops in front of you. Just because it happens more in your area doesn't make it something that can be prevented unless you kill all the deer. What's your definition of a freak accident? Something different?

I can certainly control if I put on a helmet or fasten a seatbelt. I have freely admitted that I and everyone else has said of course other injuries can occur, but if three out of every five equine related deaths is head injuries. . .it is prudent to wear an approved helmet. That's all I'm saying, that's it. Your take on it seems to be fatalistic. Your choice. Agree to Disagree.

TwoArabs, sorry to hear about your situation. :(

county
Nov. 6, 2007, 12:22 PM
cholmberg, your take on it seems to be control freak related. Theres not a thing you can do about except complain and whine.

county
Nov. 6, 2007, 12:23 PM
BTW you can prevent all horse related injuries if you choose. Don't get on one.

cholmberg
Nov. 6, 2007, 12:31 PM
cholmberg, your take on it seems to be control freak related. Theres not a thing you can do about except complain and whine.

You never disappoint, do you? I used to agree with you sometimes when I first came to this board, but lately I've started to see why other people say the things they do about you.

Let's make this really clear, shall we? Using your own reasoning. As you are SO FOND of saying. .this is a public bb, everyone is free to post their opinions on any subject brought up. I have posted my opinion, and you have posted yours. How is mine 'complaining and whining' and yours is not? :confused:

Control freak? Am I at your door strapping a helmet onto your resisting head? Have I -once- said that you must wear a helmet? I've said I think it's very poor judgment not to, and I stick by that statement.

county
Nov. 6, 2007, 12:35 PM
But of course al my posts are as you say " silly " which I guess to you means " agree to disagree " and being allowed to have an opinion. How is it you can bash someones posts but no one can yours?

cholmberg
Nov. 6, 2007, 12:41 PM
But of course al my posts are as you say " silly " which I guess to you means " agree to disagree " and being allowed to have an opinion. How is it you can bash someones posts but no one can yours?

Oh my gosh!! I used the word SILLY for a a silly comparison! How horrid of me! Please, someone come flog me into submission for such flagrant bashing of county's very irrelevant comparison!! Cover the children's eyes! Oh the humanity!! I should abase myself before you and humbly beg your forgiveness for having the audacity to actually voice my opinion on your post. . how dare I??

This has gotten WAY off track from the actual subject. I'm done with it. If you have your panties in a bunch over my use of the word 'silly', there's nothing I can do about it. Have a nice day. ;)

county
Nov. 6, 2007, 12:44 PM
Like I said you say its a silly comparision that hardly means that I do. As far as someone with their panties in a bunch I'd say it seems to be you. But have a nice day.

asb2517
Nov. 6, 2007, 12:52 PM
I'm curious as to what discipline most of the "every ride" helmet wearers practice? There seem to be alot of people on here who either have had bad falls or know of someone who has had a bad fall. I just don't know of that many people that fall off! And before you say it, I KNOW it only takes once, but honestly how often do you fall off or see someone fall off? I was just curious to see if the helmet people were mostly jumpers or what.

WildBlue
Nov. 6, 2007, 01:01 PM
asb, I was wondering the same thing. Maybe you could start a poll on a new thread?

asb2517
Nov. 6, 2007, 01:03 PM
asb, I was wondering the same thing. Maybe you could start a poll on a new thread?

I don't know how to do that, but it's a good idea. Maybe someone else can and give me credit for the idea?!? :lol:

WildBlue
Nov. 6, 2007, 01:15 PM
I've never done it either--that's why I was hoping you would! lol

asb2517
Nov. 6, 2007, 01:18 PM
I'm trying to figure it out, but it's hard when you are "techno-stupid" ! :lol:

Kenike
Nov. 6, 2007, 01:19 PM
Well, I'll answer that question:

I'm a H/J rider. Yes, I have fallen off and have seen bad falls while actually jumping. My mare has stumbled and fallen with me (similar to the video posted earlier) while cantering (and since I wasn't jumping, I wasn't wearing a helmet).

The incident that changed my mind had nothing to do with jumping, or trotting, or cantering, or anything of work. I was walking the horse out in a grassy paddock with the reins on the buckle, my feet out of the irons, my girth loosened, and the horse just enjoying a leisurely walk. He tripped and fell, got a lovely grass stain down in the middle of his forehead, yet somehow managed not to go over. All I saw was grass coming straight at me. I somehow managed to only get my own grass stains, but seeing the ground coming at a pretty high-rate of speed and knowing my head didn't stand a chance was enough to scare the bejeebers out of me.

asb2517
Nov. 6, 2007, 01:25 PM
I figured it out!! Yea for me!! :lol: :lol:

Heinz 57
Nov. 6, 2007, 01:25 PM
As stated on fancy_pants thread...

I wear a helmet because it makes my hair look nice. I can't stand the little wisps that float around, and IMO if you're going to sweat I don't want to see little pieces of hair sticking to your forehead. My hair is mid-lower back and has lots of layers. I put on my hairnet (sometimes it even requires 2...or 3), appropriately arrange it into hunter hair, and plop my nice low profile velvet helmet on top of my chestnut locks. Its a classic, timelessly elegant look. I'm vain, what can I say. Sort of along the same lines as how I like the way my seatbelt accents my boobs. Lift and separate, baby.

If you want ugly hair and a sweaty head, don't wear a helmet. If you want a saggy uniboob, don't wear a seatbelt, either. This applies to men, too. Don't think we don't notice your manboobs.

Lori
Nov. 6, 2007, 01:32 PM
That combined with Linda Parelli's asinine comment that her horses are so well trained that she would never need one drives me a little nuts.

You are kidding, right? I hope....

How could ANY person say that (I hesitate to call her a trainer)

Heinz 57
Nov. 6, 2007, 01:36 PM
This warranted two replies.

As far as insurance not covering people who ride...

Maybe its because I'm employed and insured through the State (through Blue Cross), but my insurance company NEVER asked about sports or dangerous activities, or anything even close to that. As a minor they paid for my scans when I had a concussion (hey, because I got dumped on my head and was even wearing a helmet!) and xrays of the finger that got messed up. Same insurance company (through parents), no questions about HOW the injuries were sustained. Now, if I was getting serious injuries or repeated injuries all the time, maybe there WOULD be some questions.

Rebe
Nov. 6, 2007, 01:39 PM
Umm, if you want to know "what discipline" is causing all these falls, go read the "Has a helmet saved your life" thread. It's not about what discipline you ride - it's about the instant in time when the accident happens.

Let's see what I can come up with as an instant recall exercise from that thread:

Riding a horse at the walk
Riding a horse at the walk
Riding a horse at the walk
Riding a horse but not moving (OK, usually involves an insect attack)
Having a horse spook while riding on the flat - and I'll skip repeating this as many times as I remember seeing it
Having a horse take off bucking while riding on the flat - and again, I'll skip all the repeats


These accidents aren't about jumping, or barrel racing, or about riding in a dangerous discipline. They are about accidents happening.

asb2517
Nov. 6, 2007, 01:44 PM
Umm, if you want to know "what discipline" is causing all these falls, go read the "Has a helmet saved your life" thread. It's not about what discipline you ride - it's about the instant in time when the accident happens.

Let's see what I can come up with as an instant recall exercise from that thread:

Riding a horse at the walk
Riding a horse at the walk
Riding a horse at the walk
Riding a horse but not moving (OK, usually involves an insect attack)
Having a horse spook while riding on the flat - and I'll skip repeating this as many times as I remember seeing it
Having a horse take off bucking while riding on the flat - and again, I'll skip all the repeats


These accidents aren't about jumping, or barrel racing, or about riding in a dangerous discipline. They are about accidents happening.

Falls are caused by accidents...No kidding really? ;) I was just curious as to which discipline had the most every time/every ride wearers, since I come from a discipline where helmets are not worn very much, except by Academy Riders. (Saddle Seat) At least they aren't worn in public very much...I'm sure there are barns that require them.

WildBlue
Nov. 6, 2007, 01:51 PM
Sorry, Rebe, but I see discipline as being a separate issue. IMOHO, people tend to be drawn to a specific type of riding that suits their personality type, and I think this has some bearing both on crashes and how one *perceives* an unplanned dismount.

Someone just a few posts ago mentioned be scared when coming off and seeing the grass approaching very fast. I had that exact same view a number of times as a teenager, and it didn't even give me pause. For someone else, it could have been a much more traumatic event. I *suspect* that this difference helps to shape not only how someone chooses to enjoy horses but also how someone looks at the helmet debate.

LisaB
Nov. 6, 2007, 02:04 PM
How about stories for the Darwin Helmetless Award!
I'll go first.
I was driving down a 2 lane highway and I see a family. Mom on horse, son on horse, Dad on horse, Daughter riding on in the back of Dad's horse. Riding on the side of a rather busy rural highway (with trucks and what-not). No helmets on. And on the other side was a barb wire pasture.
Hmmm, wire or asphalt, wire or asphalt ...

LisaB
Nov. 6, 2007, 02:06 PM
Oh yeah and I guess why I get so peeved is that it's so easy to protect yourself. A cheap approved helmet can save you and it's not that hard to buy and put on. This would save so many people so many injuries. Yes, it's a choice, go for it. But my logical, analytical brain is just exploding as to WHY you wouldn't wear a helmet????

Pharma Chick
Nov. 6, 2007, 03:46 PM
I get so angry and those who argue 'It's a personal choice', as if they alone will be effected if they are killed or injured for want of a helmet. This perspective completely overlooks the following facts:

- If you are killed, or if you're injuries result in permament incapacitation, you will no longer be able to work. This means you will no longer be making whatever contribution to society your job propvided. You also will no longer be able to pay your fare share of taxes. You will also be very likely to need some sort of public or subsidized assitance.

- you will raise insurance rates for the rest of us.

- If incapacitated, you will be a burden to your family.

like it or not, you are both part of a family and part of a society. How you live your life effects both.

There is NO excuse for not taking the simple and reasonable precaution of wearing a helmet. Do it for your loved ones if not for yourself.

If I feel like getting killed or permanently disabled, that is my right as an AMERICAN. I don't need the "Nanny State Liberals" telling me how to live my life. As for my "fair share of taxes", as soon as the lazy a$$ welfare scum start paying their "fair share", then we can talk.

By the way, I wear my helmet 99% of the time. The only exception is on days when it is warm and humid - I'd pass out from the humidity and might break a leg falling off my sweet, crazy TB mare.

I'm with County on this one - BUTT OUT OF OUR LIVES - WE ARE FREE TO MAKE OUR OWN DECISIONS, WHETHER OR NOT YOU AGREE.

EdwynEdwyn
Nov. 6, 2007, 04:14 PM
If I feel like getting killed or permanently disabled, that is my right as an AMERICAN. I don't need the "Nanny State Liberals" telling me how to live my life. As for my "fair share of taxes", as soon as the lazy a$$ welfare scum start paying their "fair share", then we can talk.




Wait... are you being serious? I can't tell.

Gotta love how completely ridiculous people are when they are anonymous. These threads always make for interesting reading.

KathyR
Nov. 6, 2007, 05:07 PM
I always wear a helmet when I ride, and usually don't take it off until I've turned the horse back out, or put him in his stall. I got kicked in the head when I was in high school, turning a usually very calm pony out. Obtained a pretty nasty concussion from that. My brain is more important than looks.

Pharma Chick
Nov. 6, 2007, 05:25 PM
Wait... are you being serious? I can't tell.

Gotta love how completely ridiculous people are when they are anonymous. These threads always make for interesting reading.

Yup, 110% serious. I don't need people telling me how to live my life and I am sick of paying high taxes to support people who are too lazy/stupid to earn their own living. For those of you who disagree, I really could care less. Have a great day!!!

birdsong
Nov. 6, 2007, 07:03 PM
visiting with her mother ...the daughter is from Tenn. We began talking horse...funny how horse folks recognize each other...

Ran into mother's friend last week who told me that her friends daughter had just died after falling from her horse.

What a surreal feeling knowing I had just had a nice long chat with this wonderful horse person and now she's dead...no helmet...head injury...If she only knew how her Mother is suffering I wonder if she would have worn a helmet.

pAin't_Misbehavin'
Nov. 6, 2007, 07:09 PM
Yup, 110% serious. I don't need people telling me how to live my life and I am sick of paying high taxes to support people who are too lazy/stupid to earn their own living. For those of you who disagree, I really could care less. Have a great day!!!

I think you mean you couldn't care less. Because if you could care less, then that means you care to some degree, right?

Just couldn't stand to see such a well-thought out reasonable intellectual opinion with a tiny flaw in it.:lol:

mbd
Nov. 6, 2007, 10:01 PM
Actually, I never thought of not wearing a helmet as 'selfish' until I thought about it, after reading some of these posts.

Thought it was just me being sensible *snort* and not wanting to bash my head in upon landing.

But, you guys have a great point. Why should the DH have to explain to the kids that, yep, she has a helmet, see, it's hanging right there in her tack room. But, no, she wasn't wearing it because, you know, she's a really good rider and Dobbins was a great horse. So, what happened? Wailing kiddies ask. DH has to tell them, well, Dobbin spooked at (insert object of horse terror here) and she got dumped on to (insert immovable, unbreakable object here) and well ...... you don't have a mommy anymore.

Or, mommy can't walk / ride / feed herself anymore so we get to do all that for her for the next .... 30 - 40 - 50 years.

Yeah, it's a little dramatic, but does kind of bring the point home. It's not a pretty picture.

DH flies an airplane and I used to think he was the nutso one in the family. But the man pre-flights every flight, every time, with diligence, and has every safety item he can carry / wear / call for help with that we can fit in the plane.

Kinda the same theory with my helmet. :D Although he swears his airplane is much more predictable than my beasties.

So I get to be unselfish, feel good, and be around to terrorize the kids and DH for many more years!

tullyleague
Nov. 6, 2007, 10:05 PM
Just couldn't stand to see such a well-thought out reasonable intellectual opinion with a tiny flaw in it.:lol:

Okay, I'm sending you the bill for my new keyboard. :lol:

yellow-horse
Nov. 6, 2007, 10:47 PM
i think you would have to believe in evolution to worry about getting the darwin award

greysandbays
Nov. 6, 2007, 11:39 PM
The recurring theme for the helmet nazis is HORSES ARE SOOOOO DANGEROUS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! We are regaled with tale upon tale of "I'd have died if it hadn't been for my helmet", with the requiste poo-pooing of anything resembling "I've ridden for years without a helmet and never had anything even close to a serious injury".

Well, no, horses aren't generally all that dangerous and being a helmet nazi is just as foolish as expecting to pay your living expenses by playing the lottery. Horses are not nearly as "upredictable" as they are represented to be. Just because a lot of people who fancy themselves as riders are inept in making the observations that would lead to accruate predictions of behavior doesn't mean the flaw is with the horse.

I'm not quite sure how anybody manages to fall off a WALKING horse. Unless they a a kid trying to ride sidesaddle on a bareback pony, but that's another story -- one that ended uneventfully with no injury in spite of no helmet.

county
Nov. 7, 2007, 07:36 AM
Not only don't I use a helmet but when I was a kid I'd ride bareback with no shoes on!!!!! And we'd swim our horses out in the river, slide off the back and have them tow us by hanging on their tail. In the winter we'd take an old car hood and rope, tie the rope to the saddle horn hook it on the car hood and away we'd go in the snow. And yep no helmets.

goeslikestink
Nov. 7, 2007, 08:34 AM
county i matey-- you do as you will as you have done for years and years as you an exprience rider know what you about but times change and evolution grows more houses more cars more roads etc

there fore more accidents -- horses accidents have rsisng in uk by 30% so no doubt has double in usa

the thing is in uk its compulsory to wear a hat
in usa it isnt maybe that becuase you have bigger open plains and no govering rulings as many states

but if a hat can save lives and that percentage of death lowers then thats a good thing

and if we are to be good parents , teachers, trianers, then we must set by exsample
as no one wants anyone hurt unesscarily for not riding with a hat upon one's head

be wise be safe be careful--

sometimes its only when our own kids get hurt we see sense sometimes its when we get hurt
but

you only have one head -- so look after it we all want the good things in life and have the freedom to use our lives to best caperbilites we have

Sansena
Nov. 7, 2007, 09:58 AM
I'm not quite sure how anybody manages to fall off a WALKING horse.

Hmm.. stumble? Bees/ ground hornet sting? Stupid sportscar driver? Random horse eating boogie man? Dogs running by? Bicycles?

And County: I'm sure NOBODY cares that *you* ride without a helmet. We all know you're an experienced horseman and no harm will ever befall you.

JSwan
Nov. 7, 2007, 10:47 AM
I fell off my horse when he was standing still. In front of the Joint Masters, no less.

Yes - go ahead and laugh. I didn't fall on my head but I wish I had so I could have not been aware of such an embarrassing and humiliating "fall".

I won't bore you with how it happened - y'all wouldn't believe it anyway.

purplnurpl
Nov. 7, 2007, 11:02 AM
there was a thread a few months back on "why do dressage riders not wear helmets?"

my answer was exactly that.
Because they are selfish.


My friend once told me: "I have to wear a helmet because if I fall off and bang my head no one in my family will spoon feed me."

100%
If you do not wear a helmet you are #$%$#% stupid and selfish.
Do it for the other people in your lives. You may not care about yourself, but other people do.

findeight
Nov. 7, 2007, 11:09 AM
First off...admit to not wearing a helmet while growing up-awhile back, there really weren't any let alone all the approved ones. Have been known to hop a friends Arab, a Reining horse or BILs team penner on private property without one even now. Shame on me, I know.

But I sure think about it alot more then I used to and, actually, am starting to feel as funny without it as I once did with it.

In my barn it's everytime, every ride for everybody and is the same at most shows I attend.

In the OPs case, I hope the show/playday is still there in the future and doesn't get sued off the planet because of her "choice".

moonriverfarm
Nov. 7, 2007, 11:23 AM
Well, I knew the Gary Busey wannabe would be having a field day with this thread. I hear the gnashing of teeth, if he has any....:winkgrin:

That said, I wear a helmet every time I ride 1) because I care about my health and 2) because I care about my family. Those of you who are also helmet wearers will understand, others can carry on with their diatribes. If it's okay with your family, and they will not mind caring for you if you are, say, paralyzed or brain dead, well then, carry on. I prefer to minimize risk whenever possible.

MSP
Nov. 7, 2007, 11:30 AM
I am of the live and let live crowd. I don’t care if adults wear helmets or not. Horses are dangerous and if you handle them or ride them you are taking risks.

I do however feel that all children should be wearing helmets and public event should make it mandatory.

I also think that TV trainers should be setting a better example because their target audience is beginners; even if they don’t want to wear one during their show they should at least advise their audience to do so. The western world is not as accepting of helmets but I think it is changing. And, I do get a sense that some think a person wearing a helmet is not as talented; helmet equals bad riding skills. I don’t care I wear one anyhow!

I rely on a good seat and my ability to ride to keep me safe and I do wear a helmet for every ride. I also wear a helmet when I groom my filly (she has a lot of attitude) and if I am handling the horses at feed time I go out of my way to play it safe but I usually do not have a helmet on.

I don’t get how my actions affect anyone else! If I did choose to ride with out a helmet what business is it of any one? People get injured and die from horse related accidents every day and yet I still ride! I am fully insured, if I get injured or killed doing something I love I think that is far better than dieing from some retched disease. I do all I can within reason to ensure my family will not be burdened but you can’t let “what ifs” run your life.

I have full medical coverage, short term disability, long term disability and cancer coverage. I have never been injured doing a horse activity with the exception of some bruises and getting banged up a bit.

I don’t think riding with out a helmet is selfish it’s a choice, albeit a bad one!

Rebe
Nov. 7, 2007, 11:41 AM
I fell off my horse when he was standing still. In front of the Joint Masters, no less.

Yes - go ahead and laugh. I didn't fall on my head but I wish I had so I could have not been aware of such an embarrassing and humiliating "fall".

I won't bore you with how it happened - y'all wouldn't believe it anyway.

Awww, c'mon - this sounds like a doozy!

Rebe
Nov. 7, 2007, 11:45 AM
I'm not quite sure how anybody manages to fall off a WALKING horse.

Horse spooks, horse trips over its own feet, horse goes down hard and pile-drives rider into the ground. Her helmet was under her arm because she was walking to the ring and "hadn't started working yet." Kids at the barn got to see convulsions, blood, your basic every day head trauma. I'm sure their parents appreciated the education they got from their role model that day.

Phaxxton
Nov. 7, 2007, 12:48 PM
I'm not quite sure how anybody manages to fall off a WALKING horse. Unless they a a kid trying to ride sidesaddle on a bareback pony, but that's another story -- one that ended uneventfully with no injury in spite of no helmet.
I fell off and broke my back in 2 places off of a WALKING horse - here's how.

Horse stepped on a ground pole mistakenly, fell to his knees, and in one motion jumped up and over the ground pole. I leaned back for balance when the horse fell to his knees. I came sailing off backwards, landed flat (no rolling) on my back on top of the ground pole.

I guess that freak accident just makes me one of those completely inept people who cannot predict every single move my horse makes. :rolleyes:

riverbell93
Nov. 7, 2007, 12:53 PM
the thing is in uk its compulsory to wear a hat in usa it isnt maybe that becuase you have bigger open plains and no govering rulings as many states

You're so kind to imply there's a reasonable explanation; my own feeling is that it's due to our increasingly obvious population of belligerent halfwits who
seem to believe that the sole purpose of the US constitution is to guarantee their freedom to own a tiger, a machine gun and a pit bull. I love my country, but I need a vacation.

Huntertwo
Nov. 7, 2007, 01:02 PM
I had a good wipe out at a walk years ago. Taking my horse for a nice leisurely ride around the pasture. Killer squirrel rustled the leaves, my QH spooked sideways soooo fast that I just somersaulted off... :eek: The back of my head was the first thing that hit the ground...ouch!

I fell of my POA a few weeks ago standing still! We were going down a very steep narrow trail, my saddle started slipping forward, she stopped and as I was trying to dismount at this very awkward angle, my saddle flipped up and I did another somersault off. Again, back of my head was the first to hit. And let me tell you things were fuzzy for awhile...:dead:

county
Nov. 7, 2007, 02:02 PM
Sansena I think your 100% wrong no one has any way of knowing if their going to get hurt no matter how experianced a horseman they are. Some think its stupid not to wear a helmet some think its stupid to pitch a fit that others don't wear one.

Phaxxton
Nov. 7, 2007, 02:06 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by goeslikestink http://chronicleforums.com/Forum/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://chronicleforums.com/Forum/showthread.php?p=2786889#post2786889)
the thing is in uk its compulsory to wear a hat in usa it isnt maybe that becuase you have bigger open plains and no govering rulings as many states

You're so kind to imply there's a reasonable explanation; my own feeling is that it's due to our increasingly obvious population of belligerent halfwits who
seem to believe that the sole purpose of the US constitution is to guarantee their freedom to own a tiger, a machine gun and a pit bull. I love my country, but I need a vacation.

Actually, helmet laws would need to be state laws, not federal laws. So it would be up to each individual state to pass a helmet law. Some states DO that them, at least for minors. I don't know of any state offhand that requires them of ALL riders, though.

CAJumper
Nov. 7, 2007, 02:28 PM
- I am an "every ride, every time" rider now. My husband made me promise. :) I threw away all unapproved helmets to avoid temptation (stupidity) from leaking in.

- I absolutely used to ride without a helmet (certainly without an approved one!) while doing stupid things as a kid. Several severe concussions later, I really wish I had (and wore) an approved helmet as a child. But, times were different and you can't change the past.

- Add me to the "fallen off my horse while walking" club. Was cooling out on a long rein while walking, and my normally sure-footed horse tripped and fell to his knees...tumbling his unsuspecting rider to the ground. :lol:

- Back to the comment on page one about Linda Parelli saying that she doesn't need a helmet because her horses are so well trained... :mad: I cannot even begin to tell you how upsetting I find this comment! There were two Parelli people at my barn last year who said the same thing - that according to Parelli, wearing a helmet shows that you don't trust your horse. WTF? This brainiac decided that she would NOT wear a helmet while breaking her two year old, because she needed to trust him fully first in order for him to trust her. :confused: But that's another trainwreck...errr, I mean THREAD...entirely. :D

MSP
Nov. 7, 2007, 02:52 PM
Oh, I do have a fallen off a horse while standing still story!

Well I didn’t really fall off it was more like being catapulted off! I was a kid (11 or 12), sunning draped over my horses neck just resting near the fence when my horse stretched his neck out and bit the electric wire fence. This of course gave him quite a jolt and sent him leaping in the air sending me air born as well. No, I had no helmet on but I don’t think I landed on my head so it wouldn’t have mattered! What was he thinking?

Vandy
Nov. 7, 2007, 03:08 PM
I'm not quite sure how anybody manages to fall off a WALKING horse.
A few years ago, a well known GP rider (I believe it was Margie Engle?) fell off at the walk when her horse stumbled and she sustained a very serious injury. But I suppose you are a much more experienced horsewoman, and she was probably "inept in making the observations that would lead to accruate predictions of behavior." :rolleyes:

quietann
Nov. 7, 2007, 04:29 PM
I just don't get why anyone would NOT wear a helmet. When I was a kid, my instructor didn't require helmets for flatwork, only jumping. But I had one bad fall while jumping (green pony ran out at the last minute and rubbed me off against the jump standard, ripping the back of my leg open and giving me a concussion.) After that, I always used a helmet when riding. Always.

Then I stopped riding for 25 years. As a re-rider in New England, I have yet to find any barn where people are allowed to ride without helmets. The liability is just too great, even with those waivers we sign. So "helmet before bridling" is ingrained in me now.

moonriverfarm
Nov. 7, 2007, 04:39 PM
Scuse me, but did I miss someone actually pitch a fit here over this issue?
Seems to me it's just a diffence of opinion being discussed.
GB wannabe, chill.

tikihorse2
Nov. 7, 2007, 06:21 PM
If I feel like getting killed or permanently disabled, that is my right as an AMERICAN. I don't need the "Nanny State Liberals" telling me how to live my life. As for my "fair share of taxes", as soon as the lazy a$$ welfare scum start paying their "fair share", then we can talk.

By the way, I wear my helmet 99% of the time. The only exception is on days when it is warm and humid - I'd pass out from the humidity and might break a leg falling off my sweet, crazy TB mare.

I'm with County on this one - BUTT OUT OF OUR LIVES - WE ARE FREE TO MAKE OUR OWN DECISIONS, WHETHER OR NOT YOU AGREE.

I'm very happy you wear your helmet, Pharma Chick--I'm a "Nanny State Liberal", and I certainly would not let a penny of my hard-earned tax dollars pay for your catastrophic health-care bills (i.e., Medicaid), if you had a horrible accident riding your "sweet, crazy TB mare" helmetless. LOL!!! :lol::D:lol::yes:

CAJumper
Nov. 7, 2007, 07:07 PM
Just couldn't stand to see such a well-thought out reasonable intellectual opinion with a tiny flaw in it.:lol:

:lol: *snort* :lol:

SimpleSimon
Nov. 7, 2007, 07:25 PM
I'm not quite sure how anybody manages to fall off a WALKING horse. Unless they a a kid trying to ride sidesaddle on a bareback pony, but that's another story -- one that ended uneventfully with no injury in spite of no helmet.

I'll admit it I fell off a horse that was just walking - and I'm not ashamed to admit it. I was a kid and I was riding bareback although on a horse not a pony. However, I truly went down with the ship so to speak. My horse was walking - stumbling along in my last memory - when he dropped dead underneath me. Very sudden and quite unpredictable. I actually ended up tumbling down a small embankment - climbing back up the embankment is my first foggy memory after the stumbling. Although in this case, I think it was stress/emotional overload that caused the lack of memory.

My mother was/is a Helmet Nazi so subsequently I only had a concussion.

Kcisawesome
Nov. 7, 2007, 07:40 PM
^I'll add to that. I've fallen off at a halt (I was tightening my girth and somehow fell :lol: . And I just fell off a "dead broke kids 12.2hh pony" yesterday when the pony who has never put a foot wrong came to an abrubt stop and put his head down and I flew (headfirst) over his neck (it acctually was very funny).

Mary in Area 1
Nov. 7, 2007, 11:56 PM
I personally believe that helmet use is proportional with higher IQ. Many of these posts support this theory.

Perhaps, over time, natural selection will weed out the bare-headed.

TheCoppertop
Nov. 8, 2007, 01:26 AM
I wear my big ol aerated plastic helmet.. even though people giggle and tell me I look shortbus "special" wearing it.

It's a personal choice, and we know how great a lot of people are at making choices by the number of ooops I'm pregnant from that one night stand (my pet peeve.. baby daddies are walking petri dishes!! how can anyone let a strange, er, unbridled tubesteak anywhere near their body), oops I have an STD, or even, horse-related.. ooops my mare is pregnant. Really, not wearing a helmet isn't even close to the dumbest choices some people make (2 words: Britney Spears).

It's all about the hindsight with some people. Gotta burn to learn!

NancyM
Nov. 8, 2007, 10:37 AM
Such an amusing read, and yes, I've enjoyed the whole 8 pages so far! I'm a helmet headed, vest wearing, boots with a heel and leggings kinda gal myself, always, riding racehorses, hunter/jumpers, out and about on the trails, not beyond jumping some solid obsticles when presented with something jumpable out on the trail, greenies and made horses. I agree with the judgements of "professionals" who don't wear protective gear because they are soooo good that they won't get hurt. Soooo funny and alarming about the Linda Parelli thing. I find that good riders tend to fall harder than green riders. Good riders ride out many of the minor bucks, spooks and stumbles that can easily topple a greener rider, resulting in the greener rider getting tossed more regularly, but often hitting the ground with less force. Good riders get tossed less often, but usually harder, having stuck out the easy stuff and only the really severe launch from speed and maximum effort results in more devastating falls. My take on it is that professionals automatically wear full protective gear because they can not afford to take time off to heal up from avoidable injuries. Amatuers and children who are concerned about their hairstyles and fashion may not wear protective gear. So if I see someone riding without correct gear, my first assumption is the latter, no matter what the individual may claim to be. If a person has something worth protecting, they protect it. If not and they choose to not protect it, I'm all for natural selection.

Eq3nStar
Nov. 8, 2007, 11:50 AM
Actually, I never thought of not wearing a helmet as 'selfish' until I thought about it, after reading some of these posts.

Thought it was just me being sensible *snort* and not wanting to bash my head in upon landing.

But, you guys have a great point. Why should the DH have to explain to the kids that, yep, she has a helmet, see, it's hanging right there in her tack room. But, no, she wasn't wearing it because, you know, she's a really good rider and Dobbins was a great horse. So, what happened? Wailing kiddies ask. DH has to tell them, well, Dobbin spooked at (insert object of horse terror here) and she got dumped on to (insert immovable, unbreakable object here) and well ...... you don't have a mommy anymore.

Or, mommy can't walk / ride / feed herself anymore so we get to do all that for her for the next .... 30 - 40 - 50 years.

Yeah, it's a little dramatic, but does kind of bring the point home. It's not a pretty picture.

DH flies an airplane and I used to think he was the nutso one in the family. But the man pre-flights every flight, every time, with diligence, and has every safety item he can carry / wear / call for help with that we can fit in the plane.

Kinda the same theory with my helmet. :D Although he swears his airplane is much more predictable than my beasties.

So I get to be unselfish, feel good, and be around to terrorize the kids and DH for many more years!

Sorry- the flaw in YOUR reasoning is she's an AMERICAN BY GOD and you damn kids need to quit sniveling like the little pansy ass liberal poseurs you appear to be! Get out your flags and march- be proud of your mom's right to deny you of the pleasure and comfort you otherwise may have enjoyed had she lived. Clearly she loves her hairdo more than you!!! :rolleyes:
(clearly not aimed at you, mdb- I agree- ultimate in selfish.)

MSP
Nov. 8, 2007, 12:01 PM
Well its good to know that as long as I have my helmet on nothing can happen to me! :rolleyes:

By the above logic then we should all stop riding and being around horses because we are participating in a risky hobby and being selfish. :no:

For those of you that no longer wish to be selfish try http://www.ilovealpacas.com/ I hear they are much safer than horses. :p

WildBlue
Nov. 8, 2007, 12:38 PM
Well its good to know that as long as I have my helmet on nothing can happen to me! :rolleyes:

Not only that, apparently it'll make you SMRT!

Eq3nStar
Nov. 8, 2007, 12:43 PM
Everyone's rights are abridged in some manner in this country. Despite having the First Amendment right to free speech, you are not allowed to say whatever you want, whenever you want. Sedition, certain aspects of pornography, falsely yelling "fire" in a crowded theater come to mind. It's compulsory to wear seatbelts and motorcycle helmets in most states. And in those states you have a CHOICE if you don't want to do either- don't drive. Or don't give a rat's a** about citations if you are caught.
We are very lucky that we have the choice to participate in a dangerous sport if we so choose. And for now- with a few exceptions- it's our choice to wear head protection. Yes- sh*t happens even when you do wear a helmet sometimes. I had a very good friend who died from a head injury despite wearing a helmet. It's not a panacea.
Most people who participate in risky endeavors mitigate risk as best they can and (hopefully) use common sense. If you lack common sense because you are too stubborn, too vain or too selfish- bully for you. But realize you ARE selfish and if you end up dead or (worse) a drooling burden to your loved ones you can feel good about your choices.

Phaxxton
Nov. 8, 2007, 12:49 PM
Well its good to know that as long as I have my helmet on nothing can happen to me! :rolleyes:

By the above logic then we should all stop riding and being around horses because we are participating in a risky hobby and being selfish. :no:

For those of you that no longer wish to be selfish try http://www.ilovealpacas.com/ I hear they are much safer than horses. :p

You're right, since helmets can't prevent ALL injuries, we shouldn't bother. People die wearing seat belts, too. Guess those shouldn't be mandatory. Come to think of it, bullet proof vests don't protect the head, so what's the point in cops wearing them? :p

Seriously, it's a dangerous sport and no one thing will prevent all injuries. FOR ME, PERSONALLY, a helmet is essential. It's an inexpensive, easy way to prevent some major injuries. If you don't want to wear one, fine, but they certainly DO have plenty of merit.

In all honesty, I DO agree that people probably make helmet-wearing sound like it'll wrap you in a bubble and prevent you from ALL injuries. We all know that's just not true - we can get hurt on the ground or hurt even while wearing a helmet. I think, though, that many of us see a helmet as a good safety measure. It's certainly not foolproof, but it's not useless either.

Now... what's up with the alpacas? I have to say I'm a little afraid of them and don't know if my helmet is approved for alpacaback riding. :lol:

MSP
Nov. 8, 2007, 02:57 PM
The thing that rubs me the wrong way with these helmet Nazi threads is how the helmet is described as if it was full body armor! The helmet isn’t some sort of magical orb that’s going to make you bounce off of objects. Its just absorbing some shock that would other wise go through your brain.

And how do you all think you are going to enforce a helmet law? Do you think law enforcement really needs to drive up and down the road looking for people riding with out helmets?

Sorry, I don’t see how my neighbor riding with out a helmet is a burden to me to the point that I need to make helmet wearing mandatory. It’s his life, if they prefer a western hat over a helmet that’s their prerogative.

Yes we are very lucky we have a right, that is until someone decides that they know what’s best for us and pass yet another law!

And please don’t worry about whether I am a “drooling burden” to my family. There are endless ways to become a drooling burden having lost 4 family members in two years to disease and cancer I would rather live while I can and allow others to do the same.

I wear a helmet so if I become a drooling burden do to a horse accident please outlaw riding all together I wouldn’t want any of you to suffer my fate!

Eq3nStar
Nov. 8, 2007, 03:12 PM
The thing that rubs me the wrong way with these helmet Nazi threads is how the helmet is described as if it was full body armor! The helmet isn’t some sort of magical orb that’s going to make you bounce off of objects. Its just absorbing some shock that would other wise go through your brain.

And how do you all think you are going to enforce a helmet law? Do you think law enforcement really needs to drive up and down the road looking for people riding with out helmets?

Sorry, I don’t see how my neighbor riding with out a helmet is a burden to me to the point that I need to make helmet wearing mandatory. It’s his life, if they prefer a western hat over a helmet that’s their prerogative.

Yes we are very lucky we have a right, that is until someone decides that they know what’s best for us and pass yet another law!

And please don’t worry about whether I am a “drooling burden” to my family. There are endless ways to become a drooling burden having lost 4 family members in two years to disease and cancer I would rather live while I can and allow others to do the same.

I wear a helmet so if I become a drooling burden do to a horse accident please outlaw riding all together I wouldn’t want any of you to suffer my fate!

Not advocating a helmet law. Definitely not worried. Couldn't care less what you do- you're not in my family and I don't have to suffer because of your choices. Pointing out the arguments are ridiculous. And no one has said helmets are body armor. IF you are injured I'm willing to bet NO ONE in your family is going to say by God she might be a veg but we're so happy she was exercising her rights. It's like suicide- the ultimate in selfish acts.
And for those who might be tempted to jump on the last comment- I am not saying riding without a helmet is suicide. It's an analogy.

Sansena
Nov. 8, 2007, 03:24 PM
Sansena I think your 100% wrong no one has any way of knowing if their going to get hurt no matter how experianced a horseman they are. Some think its stupid not to wear a helmet some think its stupid to pitch a fit that others don't wear one.

**WIFF!!!**

Bluey
Nov. 8, 2007, 03:29 PM
Not advocating a helmet law. Definitely not worried. Couldn't care less what you do- you're not in my family and I don't have to suffer because of your choices. Pointing out the arguments are ridiculous. And no one has said helmets are body armor. IF you are injured I'm willing to bet NO ONE in your family is going to say by God she might be a veg but we're so happy she was exercising her rights. It's like suicide- the ultimate in selfish acts.
And for those who might be tempted to jump on the last comment- I am not saying riding without a helmet is suicide. It's an analogy.

Following your reasoning, we should also wear helmets every place, including when in any vehicle.

Work at one emergency room and you wll see how many car accident victims have head injuries a helmet may have minimized or even helped avoid.:yes:

I would guess that there are as many if not more head injuries per hour driven in a vehicle than on/around horses.
See how it would go over to require all to wear helmets when in a car, so if we are in a wreck, our heads may be less damaged.

Now, jumping, car racing, yes, that is more risky, but, even if statistically accidents happen more in those activities, we may not require protection for the general, more passive ones.
Leave it to the individual.

MSP
Nov. 8, 2007, 03:47 PM
Not advocating a helmet law. Definitely not worried. Couldn't care less what you do- you're not in my family and I don't have to suffer because of your choices. Pointing out the arguments are ridiculous. And no one has said helmets are body armor. IF you are injured I'm willing to bet NO ONE in your family is going to say by God she might be a veg but we're so happy she was exercising her rights. It's like suicide- the ultimate in selfish acts.
And for those who might be tempted to jump on the last comment- I am not saying riding without a helmet is suicide. It's an analogy.

If I am injured I am sure my family will look down at my drooling body and say, “we are sure glad she was wearing her helmet because if she wasn’t she would be dead instead of a burden to us”! :lol:

Did you know that fewer than 1 in 8 riders wear a helmet in the USA? That would make helmet wearers a minority just like COTHers! And please try to follow the words carefully… I wear a helmet so I am guaranteed to never drool! ;)

If you were not advocating a helmet law then why did you reference “rights being abridged”? Seems to me the only way to take ones rights away is to out law something hmmm.


Everyone's rights are abridged in some manner in this country. Despite having the First Amendment right to free speech, you are not allowed to say whatever you want, whenever you want. Sedition, certain aspects of pornography, falsely yelling "fire" in a crowded theater come to mind. It's compulsory to wear seatbelts and motorcycle helmets in most states. And in those states you have a CHOICE if you don't want to do either- don't drive. Or don't give a rat's a** about citations if you are caught.
We are very lucky that we have the choice to participate in a dangerous sport if we so choose. And for now- with a few exceptions- it's our choice to wear head protection. Yes- sh*t happens even when you do wear a helmet sometimes. I had a very good friend who died from a head injury despite wearing a helmet. It's not a panacea.
Most people who participate in risky endeavors mitigate risk as best they can and (hopefully) use common sense. If you lack common sense because you are too stubborn, too vain or too selfish- bully for you. But realize you ARE selfish and if you end up dead or (worse) a drooling burden to your loved ones you can feel good about your choices.

Eq3nStar
Nov. 8, 2007, 03:52 PM
Nope- as I said before, it's risk mitigation. My family knows and accept that if I die or am seriously injured while riding I did everything I could to minimize the risks. Because they love ME and want me to be happy they accept that I participate in something that's risky. I accept that sweaty stinky helmets and helmet hair is part of the deal.
It's a given that sh*t happens and you can't live in a bubble. Meteors DO hit houses occasionally :)
Hmmm... how do you know I'm NOT an ER doc? Not a good idea to say "spend some time in an ER and you will..." ;)
Again- don't really care what any of the non-helmeters do- but accept that it does affect more than just you.
As far as the advocating or not- the abridgment comment was in relation to people having a hissy fit about their rights. I am firmly in favor of individual rights. But we are not free to do whatever we want whenever we want in all circumstances. But you are right- if people want to make bad choices, they are free to do so.
Now- off to ride!

catknsn
Nov. 8, 2007, 03:57 PM
I personally believe that helmet use is proportional with higher IQ. Many of these posts support this theory.

Nice try but...Mensa member here who hates them and only wears them to show or where barn rules require them. Then again, I'm fixed so I'm already out of the gene pool. You need not fear that my aversion to helmets will be passed on to a future generation.

JSwan
Nov. 8, 2007, 04:35 PM
Nice try but...Mensa member here who hates them and only wears them to show or where barn rules require them. Then again, I'm fixed so I'm already out of the gene pool. You need not fear that my aversion to helmets will be passed on to a future generation.


Oh Thank God - I have been lying awake at night obsessing over all you selfish horrible riders that are going to drive up my insurance premiums and be a burden to your poor families.

I am glad that you have seen the light and have removed your selfish, but highly intelligent, genes from the pool.

No doubt Mankind will achieve total enlightenment much sooner now that catknsn isn't going to mess it up for the rest of helmet wearing equestrian population. ;):lol:

Good googly moogly - not wearing a certified helmet isn't selfish. It increases the risk of head injury. If everyone was so worried about their families having to boil their gruel and spoon feed it to them for the rest of their lives - they'd not ride at all.

Debilitating head injuries aren't the only devastating injuries that equestrians can suffer. Maybe nobody with dependents should engage in any risky activities. I can list several local riders that were wearing helmets and still became gravely injured. And they had families. Families that are now taking care of them - including conducting fundraisers to pay for medical bills and special equipment, and renovating their homes for handicap access.

Helmets are not some sort of guarantee that you won't get hurt. Helmets don't even protect your head that much - they only help absorb some of the impact.

I think too many of you are giving helmets too much credit. When I was a kid - they didn't even exist. Once they became available, I bought one. Seemed like a reasonable thing to do. Most folks I knew didn't buy one. It wasn't "selfish". It was just a decision they made.

JSwan
Nov. 8, 2007, 04:39 PM
If I am injured I am sure my family will look down at my drooling body and say, “we are sure glad she was wearing her helmet because if she wasn’t she would be dead instead of a burden to us”! :lol:



Yeah, really. My husband has been instructed to use "Mr. Pillow" should I be left drooling and eating strained hotdog.

Sithly
Nov. 8, 2007, 06:25 PM
I wear an approved helmet every ride. I get a lot of laughs from my western friends, but they respect my decision. I will of course share stories and encourage my friends to wear helmets, but I respect their decisions, too.

Personally, I think the most selfish thing a person can do is have more than two children. Do you really want my personal opinions imposed upon you?

TheCoppertop
Nov. 8, 2007, 06:38 PM
Anyone here ever go to a motorcycle forum?? Motorcyclists are predominantly male, horse riders predominantly female. I don't think I've ever seen a thread on a Harley forum with a bunch of Hells Angels tsk-tsk-ing each other over helmet non-usage.

Must be an estrogen thing :-P

kelliope
Nov. 8, 2007, 06:43 PM
For those of you so concerned about who wears a helmet, do you also get all involved over who has sex without a condom? Just wondering.

JSwan
Nov. 8, 2007, 06:44 PM
Anyone here ever go to a motorcycle forum?? Motorcyclists are predominantly male, horse riders predominantly female. I don't think I've ever seen a thread on a Harley forum with a bunch of Hells Angels tsk-tsk-ing each other over helmet non-usage.

Must be an estrogen thing :-P

I'd bet 10$ (if I had it) that they also don't gripe about how fat people shouldn't ride, look horrible in tight pants, have threads on how embarrassing it is to have their panty lines show....... I could go on.

Women are their own worst enemy.

Sithly - more than two? How about one? Or any kids at all? In addition to a helmet law, let's have laws about who can become parents. Lots of idiots out there birthing babies....

HappyHoppingHaffy
Nov. 8, 2007, 06:50 PM
No, the OP is doing the most selfish thing a rider (or any human) can do -- expecting the world to conform her standards of behavior in order to assuage her quibbles and fears.

If you are that easily scairt by other people's behavior, I'm sure there's an institution somewhere that can protect you from the world.

The very same people who are "PREACHING" hellfire and brimstone about this perceived safety thing and expecting the world to see the light are precisely those who would be the first to raise holy hell if religious people expressed the same concern for their soul and PREACHED on how they should be doing this or that or the other thing in order to go to Heaven instead of Hell. The idea of a human soul going to hell scares the devoutly religious just as much as somebody dying of a brain injury scares the sort of person who posts threads like this one. If we aren't willing to give those fears any credence, we should get a grip on our own and leave people alone to their choices and mind our own business.

Yeah, until I have to pay for your vegatative-coma care with my health care premiums!!

JSwan
Nov. 8, 2007, 07:05 PM
Yeah, until I have to pay for your vegatative-coma care with my health care premiums!!

Oh bull.

If people didn't get sick or injured they'd not need insurance. Insurance is there to pay for medical care. The cost of such care isn't dictated by insurance premiums.

Risk is spread out among groups.

What you're complaining about is that you're upset that people get sick or injured. Well - tough. When you get sick or injured - you'll use your insurance to pay for care too. Heck - with all this safety equipment available - nowadays more people are living through injuries that would have ended in death not 20 years ago.

Dying is cheap. Being saved through extraordinary measures, only to live a twilight life in a nursing home....... now that's expensive.

Longspot
Nov. 8, 2007, 07:24 PM
You know, I used to wear my helmet 95% of the time. Then 90%. Then 85%.

Then my friend fell on an "easy trail ride" and didn't wake up the next morning.

I started wearing my helmet 100% of the time.

Today was a really nice day. I started to get ready to ride one of the youngsters at work, who was a real PITA for his mom the other day, but then I realized I left my helmet at another barn last night. I decided to hop on anyway, because he needed to be worked.

But then I thought about this thread. And thinking about this thread made me think of my friend who has been dead for over a year. And how the last time I saw her was at a Christmas party, and how Christmas is coming again, but she's still dead. And how for the next 10, 20, 30 Christmases, she'll still be dead.

So I let the youngster have a day off, and I was bummed and a little disappointed in myself, because it was such a nice day today.

When I got home, my cats meowed to me. Their food bowls were empty. I thought about the title of this thread and didn't feel disappointed in myself anymore, but instead filled their bowls with food and listened to them purr and gave them rubs as they chowed down.

Thanks for the reminder, OP.

SleepyFox
Nov. 8, 2007, 07:32 PM
I can't believe I'm posting on this thread - again. A new record for me!

But, I drove past the for-sale mini farm down the road from me today and thought about this issue.

My (former) neighbors ADORED horses - talked horses, wore horse-themed clothes, had a horse-themed house, etc. One day, while riding (mounting actually - another of those slow moving accidents) the wife fell and sustained a serious head injury (no helmet). The doctors told her she was lucky and could ride again, but MUST wear a helmet because another such injury could be fatal. Guess what she did? Rather than wear a helmet, they sold the horses, are trying to sell the farm and she's just not going to ride.

Now, I am CERTAIN there are more issues going on here than a dislike of helmets, but that's what she's told everyone and most of the idiots around here think that's a good enough reason not to ride again. I mean, I have talked to multiple people who would rather not ride than wear a helmet!! Crazy, I tell ya, crazy...

Sithly
Nov. 8, 2007, 10:09 PM
[QUOTE=J Sithly - more than two? How about one? Or any kids at all? In addition to a helmet law, let's have laws about who can become parents. Lots of idiots out there birthing babies....[/QUOTE]

Absolutely. Giving birth is very risky.

Come to think of it, maybe we should create robots to take care of all of our high risk activities ... like getting out of bed. Larger initial investment, but I'm confident it would pay off in a few years. Then we could all stay home and be safe.

Insurance would be dirt cheap.

And we could make them look like Jude Law.



;)

Wellspotted
Nov. 8, 2007, 10:25 PM
I don't know that tsk-tsking is a "woman" thing--I'm a woman and I don't sit around tsk-tsking over people not wearing helmets. Maybe it's a mother thing--I'm not a mother (yes, you can be a woman without being a mom!) :lol:

I happened to find the leaflet today that came with my helmet and read that it only protects the parts of the head it actually covers (! :eek::D) Duh! As at least one other poster has said, riders can get badly injured even when they wear helmets. Nonriders can get badly injured too.

I always wear my helmet when I ride, BTW.

Mary in Area 1
Nov. 8, 2007, 11:02 PM
I'll tell you the reason everyone in my barn wears a helmet EVERY time they ride--because I own the barn, and I say so. My liability insurance insists that they won't cover me if I don't enforce this rule, and I agree to it. I had one woman (a DQ) who said that it was ruining her hair, and I quoted Deltawave's sig line to her (the one about "If you think your hairdo is more important than your brain, it probably is.) I told her she could go to another barn if she wanted.

She wears a helmet every time she mounts now. All 26 of us do. It's the law here.

Pat
Nov. 9, 2007, 02:58 AM
It's late, so I'll make it quick.

To every one argueing with county, just give up, it's beneath you. Stupid is as stupid does. Sometimes I *really* wish county would just prove the helmet nazi's right. The harder you try prove your case, the more county will tell you that you are so *obviously* wrong. Give up, it's not worth the head ache.

For the record, nope, I don't think adults should be forced to wear a helmet at all or a helmet of any particular kind. I have a right to that opinion, but I won't call you an idiot if you don't feel the same way as I do. Do I think people should always wear a helmet of *some* description, securely fastened in servicable condition? Absolutely yes. Do I wear an approved helmet? Nope.

I understand OP's sentiment, the sentiment that county either can't get or does and won't admit it. THE OP'S POINT IS THAT SOME OF THE CHOICES WE MAKE CAN AFFECT MORE THAN JUST OURSELVES AND/OR MORE PEOPLE THAN WE REALIZE. DUH. So yes, county if you ever actually DO get yerself a serious brain injury, the task of your care will fall on others from the paramedics who strap your crabby butt to a back board, to your poor family, to the underpaid, under trained health care worker who will wipe your butt and change your diaper. So YES the choice to not wear a helmet of some kind DID affect someone other than you. Not a difficult logic to follow. Got it?

there, I'm done arguing with county.

county
Nov. 9, 2007, 07:16 AM
Wrong Pat? I don't see where I've said anyone is wrong although it seems you are. I said its a choice people make and the majority of people who ride choose not to wear a helmet. I'm sorry you cvan't accept others being differant then you but its just part of life.

county
Nov. 9, 2007, 07:17 AM
BTW Pat if you ever get an injury from riding who will the care fall to? Or is it just anyone without a helmet people have to care for?

melodiousaphony
Nov. 9, 2007, 08:19 AM
I am glad I was wearing a helmet. (http://melodiousaphony.com/heidi/akfaug2006/idonthavewings.JPG)


[yes, the photo is a proof, but for the sake of convincing people helmets are good, I'll risk it.]

My2cents
Nov. 9, 2007, 08:29 AM
OWWWWW! At least the rider will only be going to the chiropractor and not the morgue. Sorry if that sounds harsh. I have a friend that would take her helmet off to 'cool out' her horse after her ride. After a lesson, she took her helmet off and proceeded to let her horse walk around with long reins and her feet out of the stirrups. Her instructor (and my hero) stormed over to her and said 'if you EVER do that again, I will never show up here to teach you'. My friend put her helmet back on and within two minutes a car drove by that backfired and her horse did the scoot and boot and she was left in mid air and yup! landed on her back and head. She only had a mild concussion and a sore back. I can't even imagine getting on without my helmet. My head feels naked.

Kcisawesome
Nov. 9, 2007, 08:47 AM
k, nother convincing story:

My Mom rode for YEARS without a helmet. She grew up riding western and then, helmets were weird and new. So she pretty much rode for 40 years without a helmet. NEVER fell on her head, NEVER was injured because of it.

Then, she started wearing one around when I started riding. When riding her trusted mare, who she had had for 10 years and jumped 3ft ALL THE TIME. She jumped a tiny log on a trail. The mare twisted and flew her off onto her head. Her helmet was split in two and she had a concussion.

A few months later the SAME THING happened. We are not quite sure how she fell off, it was on a Xc course and the jump judge wasn't watching. But she fell off over a jump she had jumped a thousand times before and landed on her head and split another helmet and had a secound concussion.

Had she not been wearing a helmet either of those times, I would not have a mom right now.

MSP
Nov. 9, 2007, 10:16 AM
When I was a kid there were no approved helmets! I would say jockey probably had the best helmets.

I have been trying to remember when I bought my first approve helmet and I am guessing it was the early 80's. It was a Saratoga jockey cap and it was a lot of money for me to spend. Prior to that I had some velvet hunt caps but I don't think any of them would pass a certification.

I think the vast majority of helmet use was for jumping and the mind set was you didn't need a helmet doing flat work. This I am sure added to the lack of protection for western riders.

You know I don't think anyone has come out and posted that they think helmets shouldn't be worn, they are just saying they don't wear one or they don't think everyone should be forced to wear one.

I am sure everyone has a reason why they wear one or why they don't. I don't wear a helmet because I think it is going to save my life but I do wear one in hopes I will stay conscious so I can save my life! ;)

Pharma Chick
Nov. 10, 2007, 01:45 PM
Sorry- the flaw in YOUR reasoning is she's an AMERICAN BY GOD and you damn kids need to quit sniveling like the little pansy ass liberal poseurs you appear to be! Get out your flags and march- be proud of your mom's right to deny you of the pleasure and comfort you otherwise may have enjoyed had she lived. Clearly she loves her hairdo more than you!!! :rolleyes:
(clearly not aimed at you, mdb- I agree- ultimate in selfish.)

Hey, I think you are referring to me.... Ok, maybe I was a bit dramatic about it being my God given right as an American not to wear a helmet and rambling on about the nanny state liberals. You should try being in outside sales where you are trapped in a car for 7-8 hours a day listening to the likes of Rush Limbaugh and Jay Severin - sometimes I get a little fired up. Honestly, I agree it is quite stupid not to wear a helmet, but I am a little tired of all the do-gooders trying to control others' lives. Let Darwinism weed out the idiots - it's not our job to save the world.

Wellspotted
Nov. 11, 2007, 08:54 PM
Originally posted by Pharma Chick--

You should try being in outside sales where you are trapped in a car for 7-8 hours a day listening to the likes of Rush Limbaugh and Jay Severin - sometimes I get a little fired up.

Then go to the library and check out a book on tape or CD and listen to it instead, and cool off! :D