NOT Horrid neighbors-WE GOT OUR VARIENCE!!! 2 1/2 hours! SO many NICE neighbors!!

[Horsecrazy27]

CHANGED TITLE!

Through this whole process, we have met so many of our neighbors and MOST--turns out 99%-- are supportive of us and they showed up to voice their opinion! It was such an emotional 3 hours many tears and amazement!!! NOT ONE OF THE NEIGHBORS CAME TO THE HEARING ThAT WAS OPPOSED to start with, BY THE WAY!

ALSO, the City is now enforcing new statutes and procedures so this won't happen to anyone else ever again!!!! THANK GOD!! I would never want this to happen to anyone!!! I have gained 20lbs and always felt "tight" and just so stressed---I finally slept in a very relaxed mind and body last night!

I'm excited and I'm glad that good prevailed over this evil mess! PRAISE GOD!

The person who doesn't want anymore horses--did not show up and all the horsey supportive---and non horsey owners DID show up and made this successful!! WE GET TO KEEP AND LIVE IN OUR HOUSE!!!


Thank you all so much for your kind words, your PM's that boosted me up, your prayers, jingles, positive thoughts and support. Even more than getting to keep our house, I'm so happy that the City was able to find ways to improve their system to prevent this to happen to anyone else. Hopfully, my troubles, saved many from having to go through this!

:)

http://eservices.scottsdaleaz.gov/cases/casesheet.aspx?caseid=34499

Hello,

HEY EVERY ONE, please delete my "quotes" that are in your response for me. PLEASE.

THANK YOU!! God Bless,

Deleting for obvious reasons.

I'll keep those posted that want to know. I'm so sad. things are still "bad". :(

Thanks so much for your support!

[kcmel]

Yikes! Fight it all you can. Good luck.

[sanctuary]

SO Sorry to hear about all of this! I can't even imagine. Best of luck in straightening this all out! ((((HUGS))))

[lorilu]

Around here I am pretty sure the county comes out and checks the distances before the slab is pored to be sure setbacks are incompliance. If your permits and regular checks/sign-offs by the inspectors are in order, you should make out OK.

[pegasus209]

:mad: O MY FREAKING GOD.. they are the ones that approved the plans, they should be the ones who ahve too make it right, or financially compensate you.
And now the non-horsey neighbors?!? What a nightmare!!!! I am so sorry!
Get an excellent laywer, fight the city, get your money back, and move far away from people. crap.

[jluvant]

Geez...nice future neighbors...

Do you (or your lender, if you have one) have title insurance? Depending on the policy, it may give you another alternative for compensation if other avenues fail.

[Bogie]

Something similar happened to a friend of mine, but in her case it was a beautiful new barn that was completed ... and then taken down and reassembled in a different location. She was 10 feet too close to conservation land.

Your surveyor is probably liable. Get a GOOD lawyer. Most towns will take a settlement and let you leave the house. It's generally less expensive than taking the whole structure down.

What a shame that you have to go through this.

Good luck!

[Mary in Area 1]

Be very careful. This just happened in our town in Vermont. A house constructed by an award-winning architect (and now 94 year old woman) was found to be 15 feet too close to the lot line by a miserable neighbor. They have fought in the courts for YEARS (like 15 years!) and NOW the final result is that the have to tear down the house!!!!

[Blugal]

Seriously, I just can't believe people. Wouldn't it be easier for all involved in situations like this, for the complainants to graciously say, "we will sell you the 15 feet of lot for $X, which is 15% higher than it's worth (but $XXXXX less than litigating or tearing everything down)."

[Nezzy]

the surveyor is probably liable. yes get a lawyer who deals in estate problems.

[Holly'er Than Thou]

Great googly-moogly! Hope this gets ironed out in your favor. Building/contractor/county gov't stuff can be so infuriating. I know, we've been thru it. Keeping fingers crossed for you.

[PalominoMorgan]

Sounds like the surveyor's insurance is going to have to pay out some big bucks. Either that or if an inspector signed off on site the town is going to have to suck it up and shut up. Either way, what a nightmare.

[thumbsontop]

I'm sorry. That just sucks. Definitely keep in touch with the county. Be VERY nice and ask what steps you need to take. Definitely worth calling an attorney. There should be a way to find out about similar cases in your County and what attorney handled them (successfully).

What a time you've had lately! Keep your chin up. We're hear to lend an ear (or eye) if you need to vent.

[goeslikestink]

could try inviting them in and playing tactics game,,,
withoutgiving to much detail away- be nice they might not be horsey and if you know that these people are the cuase of the problem and have been told by others
then i would ask the others neighbour and make a list of complaints

then if evident it vindictive might have a case for the council to see it vitimisation of a certain privacy act ie
try and find out what it is they bothered about - then you being woman use your brains and fght the good fight with knoweldge -- and not fisty cuffs- and remeber to smile so they dont see how they getting to you

theres lot s of cuases why people are like it and it could be that no one speaks tohem and they live a sad old world as the nasties so they behave nasty

if you get what i mean -- theres always cause to a problem once you knwo waht it is you can cure most of them

ie a horse spooks - but what can be the cuase,so many things but in general its lack of confidence in ridng the horse forwards so he ignores the object
think horsey matey

[rescuemom]

So how much did the horse hating neighbors pay the inspectors to say the survey line was wrong? I'm ever cynical.

This situation sounds totally and completely sucky for you and I hope a good real estate lawyer can sort it out PDQ.

[trubandloki]

So how much did the horse hating neighbors pay the inspectors to say the survey line was wrong? I'm ever cynical.

This situation sounds totally and completely sucky for you and I hope a good real estate lawyer can sort it out PDQ.

I have to say I am with you on this one.

20' is quite a bit to be off. It is hard to believe that was missed.

[Nikki17]

Ouch! what a mess. If you can get your money back I would almost start over somewhere else. I would have for your years to be miserable by these folks. Kinda hard to believe someone would go to such means to make your life hard without even knowing you???

[deltawave]

Take a deep breath. Repeat.

Now, call your township ordinances department and explain the situation to them (I'm sure they're already in the mix) and ask them what you need to do to get the process of requesting an exception or amendment to the ordinances going. There's a term for this that escapes me at the moment.

I'm not sure what the "water in the fuel" bit was about??? Except it adds to the picture that you're in a panic over this. You MUST NOT panic. There are plenty of legal avenues open to you. Don't let anyone scare you off--nobody in their right mind is going to make you "tear down" a 3/4 of a million dollar house without a SERIOUS fight: not the builder, the developer, not the township.

Variance, that's the term--it was right there in the OP. :lol:

Wait until you're calm and in your right mind, then review the facts and call a lawyer. Good luck. :)

[Horsecrazy27]

Hello,

Deleting for obvious reasons.

I'll keep those posted that want to know. I'm so sad. things are still "bad".

Thanks so much for your support!

[horse-loverz]

So very sorry this is happening to you.. but on the bright side could you sic the crazy panty-less rider at your barn on them... let her pull a Lady Godiva on them :winkgrin:... You could say SEE AT LEAST I'M NOT LIKE THIS!!!(of course this is after this all gets straightened out and they cannot harrass you anymore... :yes:)

[Camstock]

Yes, I see that you need to get attorneys and do all that sort of thing.

I also note that the neighbors never talked to you, which also means you never communicated with them. I think I'd show up on their doorstop with a warm smile, an apple pie and canister of coffee and see if I could get invited in to SIT DOWN AND LISTEN to them. That is what most people want: to be heard. Their motives may be whacked or maybe legitimate, but understanding them will make your world a less traumatizing place to be. They might even be interested in hearing your side of it, but don't count on it and don't require it.

All the best.

[Cheerful1]

I'm a great believer in privacy, after having lived in a condo for a long time. My thoughts are that if people can see it, they are going to have an opinion about it one way or another. A certain percentage of those people are going to try to stick their noses in it.

You need a really good, really willing, knowledgeable attorney. Sounds like a good ol' boy clique running the town.

You are doing nothing wrong. You're building your dream house, that is plenty for a lot of petty people to become horribly jealous. Jealousy is a nasty emotion. So don't search your soul about how you are bringing this into your life. Pay attention to dealing with it and being strong. Your attackers want you to question yourself and feel alone and helpless so don't play into their hands.

Here is a link that I like to fantasize about: http://www.fast-growing-trees.com/ThujaGiant.htm?link=bestsellerimage

Look at the houses before the trees and after the trees, isn't it great! You need that!

I'm rooting for you :yes:

[findeight]

NO, do not try to go door to door or talk to anybody. HIRE a lawyer to do that, that is their job. You won't accomplish a thing and you will get yourself all upset. Your surveyor screwed up big time...and he sure is not the first to do so. Least they didn't wait for you to move in and get the barn done before lambasting you with this. Certainly have plenty of legal recourse and nothing is going down in the next week or so. So breathe already.

Anybody who has asked about the success of horse oriented housing developments? Hate to say it but a good example of why they usually fail.

People want the ambience of town and country, not really the country part.

Good luck. Do NOT let these people intimidate you, turn over all rocks until you find a suitable lawyer-as in snake;). You need a good one, who can intimidate THEM.

[annikak]

:yes:I can honestly say that building my house and barn was the MOST stressful thing I have done. Thank God 7 years later I don't get sweaty thinking about it ----after all, we have had the siding replaced, the roof replaced, the site reexcavated, the septic redone, 2 windows replaced. Just have to replace the drywall downstairs as well as the front door (which has dryrotted.) The garage is still sinking. You see, the poured the basement 9' above GRADE~! Yes I said 9 FEET!

My barn however was lovely and the builders as honest as they come. Love them!

I wil be jingling for you- loud and hard. You have my sympathy. Jingles for you dog, too!

[CatOnLap]

I agree your situation sux. And I wish you good luck in resolving it and hope that the city will give you the variance as they should because it was their mistake in approving the house as close to the road allowance as they did.

But as for your neighbours, this troubled me:
Our new neighbors found out we are planning on having horses there and since then, they have made our lives miserable. They have never even talked to us in person!!!!

You've never talked to the neighbours in person? The first rule of buying property, especially with a potential nuisance like horses, more than one dog or other livestock, is to talk to the neighbours BEFORE you BUY! Jeebus- you could've been moving next to Jeffrey Dahmer's twin and not known it!

Our "new" neighbours made the same mistake- never talked to anyone before they moved in, substantially changed the local climate and views by clearcutting acres of their mature forested land and the end result is that one of the more distant neighbour's unbalanced teenage son actually burned their new house down just before they moved in.

We spoke to our potential neighbours before buying, and it stopped us from buying one place when someone wearing a gang t-shirt came to the door, obviously intoxicated...And the place we have now, our neighbours are perfectly fine if we ever win a lottery and build an indoor next to their property line, even though their living room looks onto the pasture where the indoor would go.

Just as warning for anyone else who is in the market.
Good luck. it doesn't always work. Our neighbours on the other side, although seemingly nice people on the prepurchase, have turned into a strange bunch...

[trubandloki]

You've never talked to the neighbours in person? The first rule of buying property, especially with a potential nuisance like horses, more than one dog or other livestock, is to talk to the neighbours BEFORE you BUY! Jeebus- you could've been moving next to Jeffrey Dahmer's twin and not known it!


Honestly that will only do you any good if your neighbors are outwardly nasty in some way.

We actually talked to who is now our next door neighbor before we bought our land. Heck, he seemed like a nice guy. Willing to give input about who to contact about having the fields plowed up, etc.

Now we live next to him and he does nothing but cause us grief.

Most people do not come out and say, 'oh by the way, I am an controlling jerk and I will only be nice to you as long as you hire the trash company I like, only make noise when I say it is OK and do not think of interfering with my ability to enjoy this piece of the country that I do not own but I want complete control over'.

[DressageGeek "Ribbon Ho"]

Oh, wow. MORE jingles.

[DopyDgz]

As far as the surveying mistake, the surverying company is liable for this. GET A LWAYER. You should not have to eat the cost of their mistake. The surveror should have insurance.

As far as the horse-averse neighbors, go introduce yourself to them. Ask their advice about things like grocery stores, the best routes to drive, whatever (people love to be asked for advise!). Be friendly, ask about their kids. Apologize for any noise and inconvenience your construction project may cause. Ask them to keep an eye out in case anyone steals construction materials (a common problem) and give them your phone number in case they see anyone trespassing. Don't make a big deal about the horses, just be friendly. It's a lot harder to have an attitude about someone you have met than with total strangers. By demonstrating your willingness to be a good neighbor, and enlisting their help, you can make them an ally. If they donl;t respond to this, well, you tried. It can't hurt to try kindness, but if you start off defensively first, you;'ve3 set the tone.

[summerhorse]

Nothing to add but to say this sucks royally and I hope everything works out for you! =(

[hitchinmygetalong]

NO, do not try to go door to door or talk to anybody. HIRE a lawyer to do that, that is their job. You won't accomplish a thing and you will get yourself all upset. Your surveyor screwed up big time...and he sure is not the first to do so. Least they didn't wait for you to move in and get the barn done before lambasting you with this. Certainly have plenty of legal recourse and nothing is going down in the next week or so. So breathe already.

Anybody who has asked about the success of horse oriented housing developments? Hate to say it but a good example of why they usually fail.

People want the ambience of town and country, not really the country part.

Good luck. Do NOT let these people intimidate you, turn over all rocks until you find a suitable lawyer-as in snake;). You need a good one, who can intimidate THEM.

This bears repeating. DO NOT GO TO THE NEIGHBORS. You have already made your decision about them - they hate you, they hate horses. Going to them hat in hand with your emotions all over the place won't do anything but hurt you.

Get a good lawyer. Go to Phoenix if you have to. Just get a GOOD one. If this property cost as much as you say, the cost of an attorney is a drop in the bucket, and possibly recoverable.

Do you have a construction manager?

[Murphy's Mom]

As far as the surveying mistake, the surverying company is liable for this. GET A LWAYER. You should not have to eat the cost of their mistake. The surveror should have insurance.
I second this. Assuming your plans were accurate, the surveyor screwed up big time. I work for an engineering/surveying firm. We carry a lot of insurance "just in case". We've had to use it too! Also, if there was a civil engineering firm involved with your site layout, they should have put everything in the right spot on paper for the surveyor to stake.

[FancyFree]

I feel for you. An woman I know has lived in a horse community for years. She keeps her older horses there, while boarding her other horses at the stables I board at. An older couple moved in next door to her knowing full well that she had horses. They work at home. They decided they didn't like the flies and wanted this lady to get rid of her horses. Can you imagine? They've done nothing but harass her for two years now. Her dog got violently ill last year and she suspected that the neighbors put something toxic out for him to eat. The stress is unbelievable. She's not going to move and it doesn't look like they will either. It's really sad.

I hope you can find some solution. As everyone has said, get a good attorney.

[redhorse5]

Several years ago after buying my dream farm I proceeded to build the barn. This property was zoned A1 Agricultural so as long as what I was doing was with horses there was supposedly no issue. I got the barn built but then got told by the zoning people that if I built the indoor arena that it would have to be approved by zoning. They made me jump through all these hoops and then turned me down. I had already built the barn which was useless unless I had an indoor arena in my area.

I went down to the Extension Office and inquired about hogs. How many per acre? Did you have to have them penned in or could they just roam all over the 100 acres? I told them that I had just built this barn and couldn't use it so I was planning on switching to hogs. I cheerfully said that since I had some horse fencing that I was going to buy them and just let them run all over the property. I was going to change the name of the farm to ..........'s Free Range Hogs. I told them that I anticipated a huge market in the Barbeque sector and that I just figured that this was a great way to be able to use my facility since horses were out.

Three weeks later I got a letter from the zoning people that said that they had reviewed my application and that I could build my arena.

True Story.

[Rukus]

Several years ago after buying my dream farm I proceeded to build the barn. This property was zoned A1 Agricultural so as long as what I was doing was with horses there was supposedly no issue. I got the barn built but then got told by the zoning people that if I built the indoor arena that it would have to be approved by zoning. They made me jump through all these hoops and then turned me down. I had already built the barn which was useless unless I had an indoor arena in my area.

I went down to the Extension Office and inquired about hogs. How many per acre? Did you have to have them penned in or could they just roam all over the 100 acres? I told them that I had just built this barn and couldn't use it so I was planning on switching to hogs. I cheerfully said that since I had some horse fencing that I was going to buy them and just let them run all over the property. I was going to change the name of the farm to ..........'s Free Range Hogs. I told them that I anticipated a huge market in the Barbeque sector and that I just figured that this was a great way to be able to use my facility since horses were out.

Three weeks later I got a letter from the zoning people that said that they had reviewed my application and that I could build my arena.

True Story.

That is priceless!

[findeight]

:lol::lol::lol:

But seriously. Neighbors may be fine...or it may be Ted Bundy...and then there are those sometimes weird and disturbed adult children:no:

Nope, Stay the hell away from any personal contact, especially with litigation pending.

Even nice neighbors can screw you, they move. Or subdivide their 5 acres into 1 acre estatlets because they got a variance. Or sell to horse haters who hate your guts.

[jazzrider]

Even nice neighbors can screw you, they move. Or subdivide their 5 acres into 1 acre estatlets because they got a variance. Or sell to horse haters who hate your guts.

You made me shiver. My neighbor's property is on the market right now. I'm worried about all these things -- since they were such great neighbors and the folks on the other side are so, NOT. :no:

Jingles for your situation!

[Chief2]

If this will make you feel any better:

Many years ago, my sister-in-law and her husband purchased and cleared some rural property with the intent on building on it. Then, they found a better piece of land, purchased that and went through with building their dream home there instead. Several years later, she was driving by the first piece of land, which they hadn't sold yet, and saw a completed house on it. Seems the new neighbors surveyor screwed up when the purchased the adjoining lot and included my in-laws property in the survey as well. To put it bluntly, my in-laws scored megabucks on the surveyors insurance policy, which gave them more money to plow into their own house.

Stop freaking out, lawyer up and start working out a course of action. You could be a winner here yet.

[Sannois]

Except I am sure these laws vary from State to state. And It seems to me that the surveyor is liable. And the inspectors. I cannot imagine anyone tearing down a house like that. I am thinking of you and praying that it all works out. I hope they just give you a variance that you may have to pay for. I cant imagine the hell you are going through. Many ((((((Hugs))))))) to you! :)

[jacksmom]

i'm jingling for you to get a speedy hardship variance for your home.

As far as the surveying mistake, the surveying company is liable for this. GET A LAWYER. You should not have to eat the cost of their mistake. The surveyor should have insurance.

if the surveyor is at fault then you should absolutely pursue him for the expenses you will have because of this mistake.

but having worked and lived with the partner of a survey company, i can tell you that the vast majority of these cases are NOT the fault of the surveyor - even though he usually gets the bulk of the heat from that first angry phone call. they are usually fault of the general contractor - he either doesn't call the surveyor to stake the house site, or he doesn't read the staking correctly, or his excavating team rolls right over the stakes and misplaces the pad for the site. the fault may also be with the folks doing the inspection - they often mis-measure property corners and setbacks, and they frequently don't know the codes they are enforcing (sad but true).

so take your deep breath and call your GC, tell him that you want an immediate on-site meeting with him and the surveyor to sort out this problem. you need to find out how this could have occurred. meanwhile get the ball rolling on that hardship variance application - you want to get that on the docket so that you can attempt to sort this problem out as quickly as possible.

take another deep breath and remind yourself that you've done everything right. you've paid every permit fee and you've jumped every hoop - this is something that has happened that's beyond your control. just concentrate on keeping a cool head and getting to the other side of this setback, because you will.

[Sneekers]

I'm no expert in the law, but it seems that a good attorney can make a case against the surveyor, inspectors, the zoning board, the office that issues permits and any other bureaucrat that "overlooked" or accepted the survey without checking it. Seems like there was some incompetence, and negligence somewhere.

Or, as jacksmom said, perhaps the contractor....

I will truly keep my fingers crossed in hopes of a positive outcome for you....and lots of jingles for your puppy and pony.

[cordial]

Get the best damn lawyer you can possibly find.

[jme]

Jingling for you like crazy here. I do not want you to take this the wrong way, but I'm hoping to help. I've been working in the legal field for a few years now so I have a little inside knowledge on how to approach attorneys.

When you call to get an appointment do not be emotional. I know it's hard. Your situation is completely awful. Be to the point- You need an appointment because you have a land use issue... or something along those lines. Keep your explanation brief. I don't know if you're brining up how much they'll charge, but if you are, leave that for your consultation.

I'm having a hard time with the fact that you're getting pushed aside to different attorneys. We usually refer out when we don't want the job (or don't do the type of work), but your situation isn't unique. Real estate and land use is big time attorney stuff. Even our small firm handles it. You need a good attorney, because you can't get through this problem without one. I'd love to be wrong (for your sake!) about that.

Every state has a Bar association. Have you tried contacting yours for a names of attorneys who do this type of law in your area?

[Giddy-up]

I work for a Building Dept. I am surprised your home got that far along being built & they were inspecting & didn't notice the house was 20 feet too close...that's a big space. But ___ happens & I agree with whoever said to be nice when you go in the office. The "hardship variance" may be your town's way of covering up the "oops our inspectors missed that big time" & trying to get it all ok legally. It's not the first time it's been done. But it helps immensly if the homeowner comes in & is polite. No need to go all crazy screaming (save that for your new neighbors ;)).

As for the new neighbors...not much you can do. Be polite, keep your animals where they should be & follow the rules. They can't really do much then except complain about you. And their complaints will fall on deaf ears if you are doing nothing wrong. Sadly some people just feel it's their life mission to be this way. :rolleyes:

[ESG]

Several years ago after buying my dream farm I proceeded to build the barn. This property was zoned A1 Agricultural so as long as what I was doing was with horses there was supposedly no issue. I got the barn built but then got told by the zoning people that if I built the indoor arena that it would have to be approved by zoning. They made me jump through all these hoops and then turned me down. I had already built the barn which was useless unless I had an indoor arena in my area.

I went down to the Extension Office and inquired about hogs. How many per acre? Did you have to have them penned in or could they just roam all over the 100 acres? I told them that I had just built this barn and couldn't use it so I was planning on switching to hogs. I cheerfully said that since I had some horse fencing that I was going to buy them and just let them run all over the property. I was going to change the name of the farm to ..........'s Free Range Hogs. I told them that I anticipated a huge market in the Barbeque sector and that I just figured that this was a great way to be able to use my facility since horses were out.

Three weeks later I got a letter from the zoning people that said that they had reviewed my application and that I could build my arena.

True Story.

Amazing what happens when the right people get the wrong information. Thank you for posting that. Nice to see that "the good guys" win one, occasionally. :yes:

[smilton]

The hog thing works great. We a currently using it to piss of a lawyer who took a suit against us out of spite. He happens to live by one of our other farms. His reasoning for taking the suit was that he just didn't like our lawyer and he enjoys yelling at people. We are just starting court preceedings and it has been a year. With the livestock the lawyer is already discussing dropping the case. :)

[Giddy-up]

I agree with findeight.

I wouldn't bother going over to your neighbor's or trying to talk to them. You heard from other current neighbors they hate horses & don't like anybody who has them. I highly doubt they would have said it to your face when you were looking at the property either so you couldn't "check" them out. I live in a condo assoc & can NOT stand my 1 neighbor. We will never get along. I don't go over there, he doesn't come to my place. We are civil when we run into each other as needed & that's it. Why aggravate yourself more?? You won't change their opinion of you & if anything add fuel to their fire cause you'll be informing of them what you have planned to do.

[anita m]

so take your deep breath and call your GC, tell him that you want an immediate on-site meeting with him and the surveyor to sort out this problem. you need to find out how this could have occurred. meanwhile get the ball rolling on that hardship variance application - you want to get that on the docket so that you can attempt to sort this problem out as quickly as possible.....just concentrate on keeping a cool head and getting to the other side of this setback, because you will.

Jacksmom gives excellent advice. It's possible with their connections, the GC and/or surveyor may be able to help you get it cleared up with the county. So BEFORE you go threatening them with a lawsuit, I think you owe it to them to give them an opportunity to get it straightened out. Especially if you want the rest of your house and barn completed within a reasonable amount of time. If they are unwilling to help you sort it out to your satisfaction, then get a lawyer. But I think it would be extremely unwise to contact a lawyer as your initial step.

[goeslikestink]

[QUOTE=Horsecrazy27;2774410]I have talked to 3 lawyers yesterday, they all keep referring me to other lawyers. SO, back on it today after I get back from the cardiac vet. with my dog. Last night I finally got some sleep (Sleeping pills--feel better). Maybe I can think more clearly tonight. I didn't read my OP, but there is a CITY CHAIRMAN who is one of the ones behind this. Also, they have been using 1/4 of my property for the last few years as a cut through for the kids bus stop----I think that is what is ticking everyone off, is that it will have to be moved. It would not have had to be moved, but after all those City complaints, we were going to fence our property off and they would have to choose a different way. I'm

i reckon thats it - this bit of land they use of yours isnt with in the 20ft difference is it--

that would make heap of sense to me--

glad you slept and tonight do it agian and tomorrow go check the 20ft gap to the bus stop

can always compremise i know you said you would block it off and they to chose a diffrent route
but as there always a but to win a war you sometimes have to offer a carrot

so check your land for a bit that can be fence off as a pathway type thing- i know its hard
that not near neds or house so that they cnannot feed or stuff thing at you or your horses but if you givve such land to a pathway to walk the kids to school in safty

then - the council has to mantian that path way and not you, ie fence it and level it etc
and -- they could buy that section - if you want to

its a thought a sugestion- becuase if they moaning about 20ft and bus stop thingy
you have to live there for many years to come and you have to live with awful neighbours this way
a-- you have listened to there needs -
b- you have made a surgestion to help the community out
c- your a bigger person than they are
d- you get a bit of dosh back
e- kids well away from house and your horses land
f- counciil has to put up fence line all the way a long the pathway meaning you got one side covered for free

only ideas -- offer the carrot and see if we can retified without the building have to move or be rebuilt but-- if they accetpt then you wnat it on a contract and on the land reigigstry
that the 20ft is yours and is part of your house etc what ever

and - you have been the uppermost perosn by stateing that you realise the kids safty of walking to bus is in your uppermost mind and the new pathway is of course the better place to have it--

whatever maybe i dunno like i said surgestions -- think woman

[poltroon]

Good luck.

Also, they have been using 1/4 of my property for the last few years as a cut through for the kids bus stop----I think that is what is ticking everyone off, is that it will have to be moved. It would not have had to be moved, but after all those City complaints, we were going to fence our property off and they would have to choose a different way.

I agree with goesliketink that you should consider being willing to negotiate/compromise on this point. It may save you a lot of heartache, and if you ever have kids, they may benefit from it as well.

I don't think anyone will make you take the house down, but they will make you miserable. Stay nice to the city people above all. They made a mistake too if they let you get this far along; try to make it about group problem solving rather than about who's at fault.

Here's hoping for a speedy, sensible resolution.

[Huntertwo]

Good luck.





I agree with the logic to keep the peace. BUT these would probably be the first people to sue the pants off of the OP if one of these kids got hurt on her property. Perfect way to get rid of her and her horses...:no:

[jme]

Jacksmom gives excellent advice. It's possible with their connections, the GC and/or surveyor may be able to help you get it cleared up with the county. So BEFORE you go threatening them with a lawsuit, I think you owe it to them to give them an opportunity to get it straightened out. Especially if you want the rest of your house and barn completed within a reasonable amount of time. If they are unwilling to help you sort it out to your satisfaction, then get a lawyer. But I think it would be extremely unwise to contact a lawyer as your initial step.

Good lawyers aren't something to stay away from. They advise you, not unnecessarily land you in court. I would do everything jacksmom stated AND contact a good lawyer. The OP could say the wrong things to the players involved and ruin her chances at certain legal options. It's a tricky world out there. A good lawyer is protection. Plus no one has to know you are seeking the advice of an attorney at the initial stages. It's just that in this type of situation- where there is so much at stake- a real estate or land use attorney might know the ins and outs of the local variances.

[TheDingy]

Find the biggest commercial realestate company within 50 miles of you and then call them and ask for a reference of an attonery. They will know who to use and you will win in the end if it was their fault E&O will pay dearly.

[LarkspurCO]

A similar issue arose in the town where I grew up. Rather than tearing his garage down to move it within the boundaries, the guy cut the garage in half, corner to corner. He even stored his stuff in there for all the world to see.

So, maybe you can just cut off 20 feet of your house and create a wild and funky structure the neighbors will loathe and despise.

And when it's all done, put plastic flamingos and deer all over your yard.

[Sannois]

Find the biggest commercial realestate company within 50 miles of you and then call them and ask for a reference of an attonery. They will know who to use and you will win in the end if it was their fault E&O will pay dearly.

is a SMART idea!!!:yes:

[J Swan]

When I was a kid there was a local judge who was really ticked off at his property taxes. (the county was known for outrageous taxes)

Anyway - when he found out that a factor in the tax assessors appraisal was how the property looked from the outside - landscaping, attractive plantings, nice walkway and lawn - he let his yard go to pot. Never cut it, let the weeds grow up - but the inside looked great. The place looked abandoned, though. It was the only way the judge could stick it to the man - and his next assessment did reflect the "poor condition" of the house - and this taxes went down. I'm not sure his neighbors appreciated his form of protest, though.

[trubandloki]

Anyway - when he found out that a factor in the tax assessors appraisal was how the property looked from the outside - landscaping, attractive plantings, nice walkway and lawn - he let his yard go to pot. Never cut it, let the weeds grow up - but the inside looked great. The place looked abandoned, though. It was the only way the judge could stick it to the man - and his next assessment did reflect the "poor condition" of the house - and this taxes went down. I'm not sure his neighbors appreciated his form of protest, though.

The across the street neighbor we had at our old house did the same thing. The outside of his house was nothing short of nasty. Pieces of plywood nailed over spots where a window used to be but no siding or even paint ever put on it. The gutter hanging down to the ground at one end and other misc. ugliness.
I'm told the inside of his house was nothing short of amazing!!!!

They put a huge addition on the back in such a way that it was hard to see from the front. All of it was done with fancy windows and doors and such, the original front was left with it's un-painted siding and plywood.

[Iron Horse Farm]

Let me just agree with everyone - GET A LAWYER.

When we bought our property (10 acres at first), our plan was to put a trailer on the property and live in it while the house was being built. Of course we pulled permits first. When the trailer was dropped onto the property, the next door (8 acres away) neighbor began making phone calls which ended up in a tirade left on our answering machine. I made my (new) husband turn around and I marched up to their front door. I politely explained to them that the proper avenues had been followed. I further explained, a little louder, that if they wanted a say in what happened on that 10 acres that they should have purchased it. It was for sale for over a year. Although they talked to my husband leter, they really didn't say anythingto me for about 4 years. They have since moved.

[justdream2ride]

SO sorry about your house - I have no advise on that front - but hopefully you'll find a solution.

On the neighbor front though - I advise an attorney. When we moved our horses home almost two years ago our neighbors started calling and complaining to the building codes department daily(we live inside city limits). They would come out - thank goodness the building codes guy was SUPER nice - and say that everything was in compliance and we were fine. But they kept calling and calling and calling. It was to the point that one morning my husband went out to feed and there were like 3 city officials walking around our property because of so many complaints by this guy. And our property is CLEAN - we have a spreader so no manure pile, fields are drug or picked weekly, stalls cleaned daily etc. So we went to a lawyer. He wrote a very nice letter stating that we were in compliance with all regulations and that any further unwarranted complaints would be considered harrasment. PERFECT. We have not heard a word since. I love lawyers!!! :)

[Giddy-up]

And when it's all done, put plastic flamingos and deer all over your yard.

And don't forget gnomes all over too! No place would be complete without a Gnome Village. :winkgrin:

[rescuemom]

You forgot tire planters, and a large collection of mirrored gazing balls.:lol:

[goeslikestink]

I agree with the logic to keep the peace. BUT these would probably be the first people to sue the pants off of the OP if one of these kids got hurt on her property. Perfect way to get rid of her and her horses...:no:

point taken but - as theres always a but if she did it the way i mean she wouldnt own the footpath or be resposnibale for it and as its not near horses or house then theres no way they would complain-- and shes then gets cash back for a bit of land sold to remedy the problem
which would be a lot higher as it for a pathway for people and as its then become there land they fence it off so one side would be free fencing-- but
depnds if you want to nogocaite a fence as in 6ft filled in panel fence-- to her houses side
or post and rail or a wall-----
then the pathways secure from pedesterians

think bigger not just as in a bit of fence line stock fencing bare wire or post and rail whereby people can and might possibale entice horses over it still

think fill it in and have a huge ruddy great big fence then you anit got to see any neighbours paths secure and they cant interefere with what you doing as they would then have to come onto your prperty for a nose=

look bigger be smarter--

[philosoraptor]

Talk to a lawyer about the whole set-back mess. You may only get one good chance at a rezonign hearing. Make it count.

You don't know for sure if the neighbors are why your truck broke. Don't turn paranoid. If you're unsure about the safety of your neighborhood, do things to discourage vandalism: security lights, locking gas cap, whatever

I have a PITA neighbor who is also irrational, lies to the authorities to cause trouble on neighbors he doesn't like, etc... just like your neighbor. I feel your pain! I will tell you the less the neighbor can see of what you're doing, the less he'll be inspired to bug you. My lifehas been so much more pleasant since my property-line hedgerow has filled in: pine trees, native trees, and bamboo make it impossible for him to trespass or see anything.

Best wishes to you!

[rhymeswithfizz]

Agreed - do NOT be the victim, do not play the victim. You are the pissed off property owner with the Big Bad Lawyer. Remember your GC and surveyor are also on your side (they will want this to go away probably more than you), so gather your army, assemble your troops, and go to battle, sister!!

Too late for the apple pie approach - that really would only work if done before you broke ground.

[Trixie]

Jacksmom gives excellent advice. It's possible with their connections, the GC and/or surveyor may be able to help you get it cleared up with the county. So BEFORE you go threatening them with a lawsuit, I think you owe it to them to give them an opportunity to get it straightened out. Especially if you want the rest of your house and barn completed within a reasonable amount of time. If they are unwilling to help you sort it out to your satisfaction, then get a lawyer. But I think it would be extremely unwise to contact a lawyer as your initial step.

I completely disagree.

You consult an attorney to know precisely what your rights are and to advise you on how to go about handling the situation correctly, so that your life does not become MORE difficult.

You do not necessarily have to THREATEN A LAWSUIT or mention it to the surveyors that you've got an attorney, but it will only serve you well to know the laws and your rights and to have the help of someone qualified to deal with these sorts of problems.

DEFINITELY consult an attorney.

[Horsecrazy27]

Same...can't go into details anymore...but, will let you know when I know. :)

[MacknCody]

Jingles for you from NC. Take a sleeping pill and try to relax. Its just another obstacle in life, there were others before it and there will others after it. Make sure to give us an update!!

[Horsecrazy27]

Thanks guys!

[carolprudm]

PS.... I am going to seek advice, but at this "meeting" won't bring him. (don't want to rock the boat yet). But, will bring him to the "board meeting if there/when there is one.

Remember, when in doubt, smile (even if you are gritting your teeth) and say as LITTLE as possible.

[Tom King]

It'll work out fine on Monday. It's a great sign that the county called and wanted to go over your options. I've dealt with Zoning Boards, Building Inspection departments, Surveyors, etc. for decades. I've attended many Zoning Board meetings and seen it all.

It'll work out fine as long as you are polite. Concerned is fine. Upset is fine. Being a loud jerk and making demands will not work in your favor.

I would not show up with a lawyer for the meeting on Monday. With our Zoning Board, I have seen it put them on the defensive as soon as a lawyer starts talking. This is the way I would handle it but you have to make up your own mind about your ability to talk to people.

Forget the neighbors for now. Go for a long walk somewhere pleasant away from the property.

[At1Dressage85]

Sounds like a nightmare! Wish I had some advice..but I'm cringing just reading your message (and have never owned or built a house before!). GL!

[Horsecrazy27]

*

[ESG]

The bean counters, rubber stampers, and general PITA pencil pushers anywhere will drive you nuts. If you let them, that is. :winkgrin:

Know that most of the folks that work at county agencies don't know as much about various zoning ordinances and permitting as you do. I could give you chapter and verse about my run-ins with county agents, but there isn't enough bandwidth here. :lol: The best thing you can do in a situation like this is keep your cool. If you get hold of anyone in your surveyor's office, be super sweet but persistent! You know - along the lines of, "Well, I know he's out of the office at the moment, but is there someone else that can help me? Well, can I have his/her voice mail? And who do I need to talk to at the county that has juristdiction over these matters? Oh, wonderful - do you have his/her phone number?". Be polite, be ingratiating, and hang on like a tick on a house dog. If you keep going "up the food chain", so to speak, you will eventually get to the right person. I know - done this twice, in two different states. Took a while, but all came right, and didn't cost me a penny. ;)

Good luck. And get some sleep, honey. Being overtired and overwrought is the worst thing you can do. Take antacids, eat chocolate, go get a vat of margaritas and dive in, but find a way to relax. Makes a biiiiiiggg difference in how you feel, and how people percieve you. :yes:

JME. :cool:

[tweeter]

Had breakfast with a contractor this morning, and was telling him your tale of woe.....now, keeping in mind that you're in a different state, what he said was basically not to worry much about it. Whoever did the survey made the mistake, and they carry insurance to cover this kinda thing. He also said that most times in a situation like this, the county will give the variance almost automatically unless the other party can come up with a very very good reason why they shouldn't.

Worst case scenerio would be that the surveyor people would have to pay big bucks to the other homeowner to buy that little strip of land.

Hope that makes you feel a little better, I'll be sending lots of jingles for tomorrow. Just remember you did nothing wrong.......the surveyor screwed up, and the county didn't catch it, neither did the builder. NOT your problem, it's theirs.

[goeslikestink]

chin up - bee assertive dont let them know you dont - let them think you do

come on girl -- you can do it -- but sleep well tonight

[chai]

Horsecrazy, I am sorry that you are going through such a difficult time. It might be worth taking a tape recorder to that meeting on Monday. Good luck! I'll be jingling for you.

[yaya]

Well, if you do put gnomes in your yard and then get sick of them, you can always get these:

"Gnomes Be Gone"
http://www.uncrate.com/men/home/interior-exterior/gnomebegone/

[LearnToFly]

And if you don't feel like buying any gnomes, some of these may be up for adoption soon!!!

http://www6.comcast.net/news/articles/odd/2007/11/01/ODD.Gnomes.without.Homes/

[Horsecrazy27]

I'm getting ready to leave to head to the town Hall.

Tweeter--thanks a lot!!!! xoxo

[purplnurpl]

And after you finish with all the above advice bake some cookies. Take them over to the A-hole neighbors and introduce yourself.

And tell them you're sorry that the surveyors screwed up and they will have to putt up with an eye sore lot and construction vehicles for the next few years.

Sometimes the big tractors make a lot of noise after hours at night.
I greatly apologize.
Have a F**CKIN nice day.

: )

[Giddy-up]

Listen to what the town has to say. Don't agree to anything or sign anything. Keep your cool. :)

[MSP]

Isn’t building a joy? I think planning my wedding was more stressful but the house was a close second!

Hope it all turns out well. I actually measured and staked out my own house so I could avoid this problem; we have all kinds of set back rules. How about getting friendly with your horse owning neighbors and uniting! Then when you get a chance build lots of good fences, they make good neighbors! :winkgrin:

[railijumper28]

Lovely neighbors! Here's a story: The father of 2 of the girls I ride with represents his household on the Home Owner's Association. There are 2? other people in the neighborhood that have horses. The street is very wide, and this family is only able to park their 2-horse gooseneck Sundowner on the street. Well, HOA complained that the trailer takes up too much room (I've been there; trust me, it doesn't) and that they just don't like the general "barn look" and "manure smell". HOA says they will file complaints. Well, Horsey people decide threaten to buy an old junk car (they even picked on out!:lol:) and spray paint "covenants" on it!
Moral of the story: fight for what is right, and was allowed at one time (for you, YOUR HOUSE, and keeping your horses there), and maybe you should put some sort of tacky-yard somethin' in your front yard, so everyone knows your views!!:lol:

GOOD LUCK!!

[tweeter]

update....I need an update. I've been thinking of you all day, and just hope you have some good news for us.

Jingling like crazy in NC

[YankeeLawyer]

I completely disagree.

You consult an attorney to know precisely what your rights are and to advise you on how to go about handling the situation correctly, so that your life does not become MORE difficult.

You do not necessarily have to THREATEN A LAWSUIT or mention it to the surveyors that you've got an attorney, but it will only serve you well to know the laws and your rights and to have the help of someone qualified to deal with these sorts of problems.

DEFINITELY consult an attorney.

Exactly. I have a hard time believing, for example, that the county that approved the site and signed the permits (and charged you 40K for them) has no liability -- they can't just say that they relied on the surveyor's work. It seems to me that you would have claims against both the county and the surveyor; it would be up to the county to get indemnified from the surveyor. But I cannot imagine that the county has no obligation to do some due diligence before approving build locations.

I would see an atty before doing anything like seeking a variance. Arguably, by asking for a variance you are acknowledging there is something wrong with the location of your house. I would not concede that so fast. You have the survey; you have the approval from the county. I would argue they are wrong (i.e., the house *is* in the correct place), and, alternatively, if not wrong, then they are liable for the error, which was their own.

I also would look into going after that County council chairman or whatever for abusing his position and harassment.

Finally, did the people who complained just move to the area, or were they there throughout the construction thus far. Why are you just hearing about this now? Why didn't they say something when you broke ground?

[tweeter]

Exactly. I have a hard time believing, for example, that the county that approved the site and signed the permits (and charged you 40K for them) has no liability -- they can't just say that they relied on the surveyor's work. It seems to me that you would have claims against both the county and the surveyor; it would be up to the county to get indemnified from the surveyor. But I cannot imagine that the county has no obligation to do some due diligence before approving build locations.

I would see an atty before doing anything like seeking a variance. Arguably, by asking for a variance you are acknowledging there is something wrong with the location of your house. I would not concede that so fast. You have the survey; you have the approval from the county. I would argue they are wrong, and if not wrong, then they are liable for the error, which was their own.

I also would look into going after that County council chairman or whatever for abusing his position and harassment.

Finally, did the people who complained just move to the area, or were they there throughout the construction thus far. Why are you just hearing about this now? Why didn't they say something when you broke ground?

You've said what I was trying to say....LOL! The mistakes made were not theirs...but start with the surveyor and go right on down the line to the guy that signed the permit.

Where's the update?????

[Horsecrazy27]

Update.

NOT GOOD. CRYING. sorry....will type later. I'm so sad.

[Horsecrazy27]

*

[horse-loverz]

(((((((HUGGS))))))) don't know what else to say.....other than sue those surveyor's assess

[tweeter]

NO. I don't believe it. I just don't believe it. How can you be at fault? Yes, you hired the surveyors.....they screwed up. Are you expected to go behind them and do the survey yourself? I can't believe the permit fees...11K for the water meter. Hell, tell them you'll take it out yourself, then make'em bend over....insert water meter.

Lawyer up.

[xegeba]

the city issued you permits and had their inspectors sign off on every phase of your project. They are now telling you that their review process is flawed, their inspectors are idiots and you need to tear your building down. I hope I'm going to be hearing about this case on CNN.

[BuddyRoo]

I understand you're upset.....but hang in there. The game is NOT over....they tried their strong arm tactics...screw 'em. You've got an attorney, hope he/she is a bulldog. Fight.

In the meantime, try not to lose it. I know it's easier said than done, but all you had today was a meeting. NOT a final decision.

[tweeter]

the city issued you permits and had their inspectors sign off on every phase of your project. They are now telling you that their review process is flawed, their inspectors are idiots and you need to tear your building down. I hope I'm going to be hearing about this case on CNN.

yup, when it goes to the Supreme Court. This is the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard. Sounds like someone needs to take a serious look at that system (or scam) they have going out there. I sure as hell wouldn't go quietly.....

[Instant Karma]

OMG. What a nightmare. OMG.

Not only do you absolutely need a lawyer yesterday, but I would think if the media caught wind of this they would be ALLLLL over it.

I can't even imagine. You seem like a nice person with a good heart, I am so sorry you are going through this. I hope it all works out for you in the end. I am sure it will, but not without some really tough times and stress before hand.

You will be in my thoughts.

[YankeeLawyer]

[edited]

Get a lawyer. Get an injunction. And seriously consider going to the media and exposing these incompetent and likely corrupt jacka**es.

[Trixie]

Ugggggghhhhhhhhhhh.

Now take a deep breath, square your shoulders, and go out and hire yourself a pitbull of an attorney to deal with this and fix it. Frankly, it looks like there are quite a few people you can go after.

[YankeeLawyer]

[edited]

Breathe. They are not lawyers. They are county pencil pushers who make less per year than you paid for the permits they required. Just because they say it is your fault means nothing. Do you think they are going to say it is their fault? And the next time someone tries to intimidate you into not calling a lawyer by saying that they will call one if you do, tell them to have at it.

Try to stay calm, and please get in touch with a lawyer. Lawyers are paid to have your headache for you. Hire someone else to stress out about it.

[YankeeLawyer]

I would not show up with a lawyer for the meeting on Monday. With our Zoning Board, I have seen it put them on the defensive as soon as a lawyer starts talking. This is the way I would handle it but you have to make up your own mind about your ability to talk to people.


Respectfully, a decent lawyer can handle people who are on the defensive; that is the easy part.

[Woodsperson]

Also have your soon to be hired attorney send a demand letter to the surveyors and hopefully trigger their E&O insurance.

[J Swan]

I'm sorry you're going through this.

This happens a lot more than you think. Usually it's not the house - but another structure, or a fence or something. And usually it's not even noticed unless somebody complains.

They're going to take the hard line - they have to.

You'll work something out - as long as you have good representation - that's the key. It's just about working the system, and having a lawyer that knows how to work the system.

It's a big pain in the butt, and unfair, and biased and all those things. Just don't let them see you sweat, and don't, for one second, assume anybody knows what the heck they are doing.

It's all give and take. Developers and construction companies go through this crap all the time.

[YankeeLawyer]

Developers and construction companies go through this crap all the time.

Except in Loudoun County, apparently ; ).

[J Swan]

Except in Loudoun County, apparently ; ).

:D:lol:

Yes, that county seems to be the exception to a lot of rules. Poor Loudoun. Driving up Route 15 makes me weep.

I've locked horns with my county folks a couple of times - it's not pleasant but it helped that I was really really really prepared. A plus is that I had all the soil and GPS maps too. Whew!

[tweeter]

So as I was cleaning stalls, and getting madder and madder......here's a thought....if you're responsible for the surveyor because you hired him, they're responsible for the inspectors who screwed up because they are their employees. Ummm, wouldn't that make the commissioners responsible for the mistake? Sounds like the good ole boy network and they're alll trying to cover their @ss.

Now, if they do tear down your house, I'd rebuild, minimal standards and rent it out as a halfway house for crackheads, or maybe for parolees....a band of traveling gypsies? Circus people looking for a winter spot?

Then all the COTH members should send you some yard art....just to spruce up the place a bit.

[J Swan]

Now, if they do tear down your house, I'd rebuild, minimal standards and rent it out as a halfway house for crackheads, or maybe for parolees....a band of traveling gypsies? Circus people looking for a winter spot?

Then all the COTH members should send you some yard art....just to spruce up the place a bit.


Around here we just threaten to start a hog farm. :D

[tweeter]

Hogs would be good if it wasn't forbidden in the covenents...we can have horses, but no cows, goats or pigs.

[J Swan]

Hogs would be good if it wasn't forbidden in the covenents...we can have horses, but no cows, goats or pigs.

Oh Gawd - not one of those places. How awful for you!

Every farm must have a pig. And goats. And a cow. That way you raise your own meat.

Plus - what's not to like about pigs? ;)

[Trixie]

What about emus or something? :)

[tweeter]

I know, I know...sad isn't it. We did have a neighborhood pot bellied pig for a while. Just showed up one day and stayed for a couple of weeks. I think he was working his way around county. Saw him up the road one day, happily rooting around.

I've got turkeys tho <G>

[gieriscm]

Hogs would be good if it wasn't forbidden in the covenents...we can have horses, but no cows, goats or pigs.

Peacocks. Trust me - your neighbors will hate you.

[tweeter]

We had three of them, dunno where they went, but we still hear them every now and then. Those suckers were mean! They'd terrorize the poor turks. Since we have to pen the turks now to protect them from neighborhood dogs, now might be a good time to go back to peacocks. Hee hee hee hee, thanks for reminding me

[LisaW-B]

Let me add the 1,000th suggestion to Get. A. Lawyer. Now.

I am so sorry that you're going through this. The city or county will try to push you as far as they think they can... Believe me, I have experience with the county and handling them through a lawyer. And thanks to said lawyer, we won. Best money we've spent. We didn't even have to go to court. It was handled through a series of letters and phone calls.

This is why Scottsdale sucks so much. (And why I like living in the county, instead.)

Hang in there. Keep your cool and keep thinking rationally. {{{hugs}}}

[bazookajoe]

This is just flat out WRONG! Reminds me of one of those old movies where the big wigs in town are big bullies who terrorize the residents. Where is Clint Eastwood or Charles Bronson when you need them. I agree with the others about hiring a lawyer (I think you said you've done that) AND going to national media. Somewhere, somehow, someway, these jerks would know they messed with the wrong person. Who do they think they are anyway!:mad:

[DopyDgz]

I am so sorry for what youy are going through. I hope you fight them: it sounds like you have a strong case.

If you decide not to fight, you might consider having yout house moved instead of tearing it down. depending on the size and shape of the structure, moving it might be feasible. Both my sister and sister-in-law had their houses relocated (in order to put the houses, orginially on piers, put on foundations). It would cost less then demolition and re-construction.

[lorilu]

re: covenants:
I have a neighbor who ignored the deed restrictions and built a shed 25' off the property line, which is the county standard for agricultural zoning. Our deed says 40 '.
I asked the county and they said they do not enforce deed restrictions, only county laws.


L

[Candle]

Try to stay calm, and please get in touch with a lawyer. Lawyers are paid to have your headache for you. Hire someone else to stress out about it.

Bingo!!!! I learned this one the hard way. Having a lawyer means that the people who are upset and feel like being nasty can talk to your lawyer instead of calling you, and all you do is call the lawyer at the end of the day. It's the nicest thing I could have done for myself, and no, we didn't end up in court, although it was extremely valuable to have known all my options, what I could have done, and when I should have done it if I were so inclined. Different situation, but OMGiH my stress level just plummeted the day I hired representation. PLEASE make sure you do this sooner rather than later, as the last thing you want to hear is "We could have made this all better, if only you'd called me before you did XYZ".

[Lori]

Peacocks. Trust me - your neighbors will hate you.

Peacocks AND Guinea Fowl. Lots of them.

Put up a makeshift pen and put up electric fence to keep out roaming dogs.

Guinea fowl YELL at anything.

Or get a livestock guardian dog. They bark all night long to keep things away. That should enlighten the neighbors. ;)

[texang73]

Peacocks AND Guinea Fowl. Lots of them.

Put up a makeshift pen and put up electric fence to keep out roaming dogs.

Guinea fowl YELL at anything.

That should enlighten the neighbors. ;)

I second the guinea fowl. When I lived in Africa, the locals would let them roam loose, and OF COURSE they would congregate under my window in the EARLY am and make all kinds of racket. Hate them still to this day.

[Milocalwinnings]

Guinea fowl and chickens are great for bugs too!!! So they can annoy your neighbors and help reduce the bugs at the same time!:lol:

[Alagirl]

I have not read the whole thing but it sounds about like the year I am having!


And it all started off with some witch who could not get her bee-hind in the right gear to talk to us in person, instead the red tape was wrapped around us so tight we had a hard time breathing! That was in January and we are still feeling the effects.

I honestly tell you, you might have to cut your losses on the property and find another place, they will haunt you to death...or keep the petobismol on your nightstand. People suck theses days, they have no more common manners to treat a person right. Just screw them over...and if the city chair man is in on it, consider running for office...

[Alagirl]

So as I was cleaning stalls, and getting madder and madder......here's a thought....if you're responsible for the surveyor because you hired him, they're responsible for the inspectors who screwed up because they are their employees. Ummm, wouldn't that make the commissioners responsible for the mistake? Sounds like the good ole boy network and they're alll trying to cover their @ss.

Now, if they do tear down your house, I'd rebuild, minimal standards and rent it out as a halfway house for crackheads, or maybe for parolees....a band of traveling gypsies? Circus people looking for a winter spot?

Then all the COTH members should send you some yard art....just to spruce up the place a bit.



:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

[carolprudm]

re: covenants:
I have a neighbor who ignored the deed restrictions and built a shed 25' off the property line, which is the county standard for agricultural zoning. Our deed says 40 '.
I asked the county and they said they do not enforce deed restrictions, only county laws.


L
Yes, but in VA the HOA can take legal action to have the offending item removed

[poltroon]

Jingling that your lawyer kicks their sorry asses and can make everything all better with a minimum of (additional) fuss.

[Horsecrazy27]

I am still alive.

Gosh, loosing faith in humanity. :( MAN.... I have been so hateful lately about this whole thing. I find myself so pissy at my husband ???????????? just angry.

TOTALLY NOT ME!!! ERRRRRRR.

I hate being like this. I'm going for a hike--then for a horse back ride later. i have felt that being with my horses--just wasn't good for them. I'm so crabby and short. So, I have kept it to stall cleaning and cuddles.

_______________Reality Check______________ watching channel 12 news.

Okay, i'm watching "Augie's Quest" (ALS)....I'm feeling so bad about having a problem. That poor man. Gosh, I need to get a grip. Not that this isn't isn't huge, but I have my health.

God forgive me for being such a baby. That poor man.



I'm wondering about a petition?????????????? Does anyone know if that will help. I don't want to waste a phone call to the attorney for that, still waiting for his report, but wondered what you all thought of that?

[poltroon]

My guess is that the only people who count in terms of a petition would be your immediate neighbors - basically all the adjoining parcels. You can talk to your lawyer about this as far as whether it applies, but if you have a hearing, if they are willing to say nice things or send a nice letter along, that may be of help when the issue of the variance comes up.

Stay strong. You've done everything right. You're right to be mad, and angry, and anxious - but for the moment it's their surveyor against yours... and against all their earlier inspectors. Don't even acknowledge that their new finding is correct - it may not be.

[Guin]

Maybe a few large alligators??

[trubandloki]

I think before you do anything at all you need to talk to your lawyer. It would suck if anything you did in trying to help your case interfered with his ability to get this resolved.

Keep your chin up.


And BTW, you are allowed to be hurt, frustrated, mad, and any other emotion you can think of about this. Just because someone else has it worse does not mean your situation does not suck big time.

[TheJenners]

I know this awful and stressful. I know your entire outlook and behaviour towards life right now sucks balls (ie, riding probably not a good idea, snapping at the husband, etc).

But.

Get a lawyer, trust me. Even the threat of one might do it; if not, having one will help you SO MUCH! For example, my ex tried to play hardball with me over stuff in the divorce and I let him bully me for MONTHS. I cried, I called my parents and cried, I snapped at friends and then cried, I stopped riding because it wasn't safe, etc. I finally said F**K IT! and called my lawyer who I had been paying piddling little "consultation" fees and spent a day filling out a bazillion pages of paperwork and gave a retainer to her...ex called and tried his same ole shit, and I said "I'm done, talk to my lawyer." Guess who was crying then? Guess who left me alone? I was no longer just me, vulnerable, easy-to-bully me; I had TEETH.

In real estate, get the best you can get. Contact brokers in the area and ask for lawyer recommendations if you haven't already. These people are knowledgable for a reason. Get someone specialized. Ex and I put the farmette on the market THIS week after more than a month FSBO, and I'm so happy I am glowing! No more getting jerked around by him, no more reasons for him to tell lies about me turning potential buyers away; I have someone who will run interference because <gasp> it's HER job, not mine anymore. Totally worth the $14,000 it'll probably wind up costing me in fees, commissions, etc.

Yes, a divorce doesn't compare to what you are going through, but the fact that I hired someone to give me peace of mind AND IT WORKED is the point I'm trying to make. It isn't a magic bullet, magic pill or magic in the simplest form; it'll still be hard, I won't lie. But the help you gain from knowledgable people who are on your side will be priceless, trust me. I was still stressed beyond belief, I still gained 10 pounds (on my frame, that's a lot), I still have some patience issues and have damaged one friend relationship beyond repair, I still don't ride but have at least started lungeing again without feeling like falling apart. But my divorce is final and I didn't lose anything that was mine and the house is safely on the market in the hands of an agent. And the ex leaves me alone for the most part and just sticks to being passive-aggressive instead of aggressive.

If you need a shoulder to cry on, feel free to PM me. :yes:

[Horsecrazy27]

Thanks for the info on the petition poltroon!!!

[Murphy's Mom]

You know, when this mess is over and your house is built, I'm thinking flamingo pink or lime green would be an excellent exterior color. :D And get a couple of peacocks. They make the most annoying noise!

[Alagirl]

LOL, and about 100 pink flamingos for the front lawn? (actually, the more the more classy it is, like art...) or Canada Geese decoys from the hunting place...HONK HONK :lol:

[BuddyRoo]

Oh, the geese and duck ones with the wings that "flap" in the wind. PERFECT!

[Guin]

You know, when this mess is over and your house is built, I'm thinking flamingo pink or lime green would be an excellent exterior color. :D And get a couple of peacocks. They make the most annoying noise!


Never mind about the pink and green. Go GOTH!! Paint the house entirely black!! Buy an old hearse and park it in the driveway. Buy a few coffins and stack 'em near your garage. Stick a few "Protected by Smith & Wesson" signs around your property line. That should keep them away. :cool:

[MassageLady]

A friend a long time ago had a 'nosey' neighbor who watched their every move. He said (he didn't do it-but it's a good idea)that he was going to put up a privacy fence and paint a huge eye on her side!:lol: I'd also make that side of my fence for dumping my manure.:yes:

[Alagirl]

the Morticia look! :lol:

[Tom King]

I had hoped that the people in the Zoning office would not be "by the book" sticklers but just because they are doesn't mean that everyone on the Board will be. Having to tear the whole thing down doesn't sound like "options" to me. Time for the big gun experts but do keep a tally of every littke expense,and big ones too-like rental costs or double mortgage costs for a place to live during time lost, for settlement with the surveyor.

If it does come down to a redesign effort check to make sure if the roof overhang is included in any setback.

Wishing you luck and will be checking on your progress.

[DressageGeek "Ribbon Ho"]

I was debating whether to advise you to go for pigs or chickens, since when the wind is blowing, their, um, feces can be quite, um, odiferous - hey - why not have BOTH!!!!

Just make sure the neighbors are downwind.

[EdwynEdwyn]

I just wanted to be the umpteenth person to say get the BEST lawyer you can afford and let them fight this war for you.

My heart really breaks for you in this situation. It is terrible when you think you are doing things by the book, things get signed off on, approved, and then you learn that things weren't done correctly after all. :(

I wish you the best of luck -- you CAN get this straightened out with a good lawyer.

[tweeter]

Ya know, old toilets make loverly planters.....I think once this is settled, and you're moved in, we need to host a big COTH party, sorta an open house. We'll all bring lawn ornie for you. A National COTH party. Oh, be still my heart

[Horsecrazy27]

I think I may do the party thing!!! Sounds like a blast to finally meet you all! Your support has made me smile today!! (first one in a while) I am still smiling!! My face is in shock!!!

The City only alows us to paint houses a certian color---and we have a radiant value too... LOL! STRICKT (sp) place to live that is for sure.

You know, maybe it should be a costume party????????????????????? That would freak them out!!!! Dressing as little street walkers, pimps, circus people... LOL Can you imagine!!!!!

THANKS YOU GUYS FOR MAKING ME SMILE!!!! Boy I needed that!

[tweeter]

Ok, so now let's start planning. Since this is a national COTH gathering, it has to last at least a couple of days.....so housing.

I vote for tents. Maybe some circus tents? Yurts? Tepees? Some of each. And lots and lots of portapotties....snicker snicker snort!

[Alagirl]

I bring the Punk Rock band! :yes:

[tweeter]

I bring the Punk Rock band! :yes:

Better bring two, that way we can have music while one takes a break. Maybe we need 3!

[Ghazzu]

I bring the Punk Rock band! :yes:


I dunno.
A situation like this calls for bagpipes.
Maybe we can book the Dropkick Murphys.

[ChocoMare]

I've been following this thread, so wanted to quick jump in and say HANG IN THERE BABY!!!! Remember, what satan intends for evil, God intends for good ;)

So, now. This party. Hmmmm, how about some bagpipes to go along with the punk rockers? That'll really get the neighbors in a tizzy. :lol:

[ChocoMare]

HAHAHAHA Ghazzu....we posted at the exact same time. Great minds think alike :winkgrin:

[tweeter]

I've been following this thread, so wanted to quick jump in and say HANG IN THERE BABY!!!! Remember, what satan intends for evil, God intends for good ;)

So, now. This party. Hmmmm, how about some bagpipes to go along with the punk rockers? That'll really get the neighbors in a tizzy. :lol:


OMG, I just blew coffee thru my nose (not a good thing to do).

[BuddyRoo]

Bagpipes for sure. And portapotties. Along the property line. Is there an ordinance for THAT?

Oh and I think a light show would be good. Is that covered by "radiance"??? (what the hell is radiance anyway?)

So, we'll all show up with tents, our dogs, pick-em-up trucks, blare bagpipes and do a light show.

Also, I still have some connections with the Air Force. Maybe a few low level fly bys would give some effect? Sonic booms or somesuch?

[Kestrel]

You need the Wicked Tinkers!

http://www.wickedtinkers.com/

[silver2]

A situation like this calls for bagpipes.
Maybe we can book the Dropkick Murphys.
I have a friend who is in a marching bagpipe band. They will play just about anywhere for beer.

and yes, it does annoy the neighbours ;)

[Alagirl]

Marching is always good, my neighbor was in the WASP band, I am sure she can get a few gals together! ;)

maybe we just make it a Battle of the band, outright...can you say long week end! ;)

:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

[J Swan]

What, no bongos?

You simply can't have an annoying party designed to give the neighbors migraines without bongos.

Or clogging. Build yourself a little deck and have clogging.

Oh - polka music. I happen to like polka music. I'll bring some good beer and some bratwurst. And my bongos.

I play the spoons, too. You want me to play the spoons?

[MistyBlue]

Ahhh...an international piss off the neighbors party is being planned? Bagpipes, polkas, bongos and clogging...hmmm....needs an accordian in there maybe.
Nothing like the sound of bagpipes being played well...unless it's the sound of bagpipes being played by a drunk beginner. Has that merry "dying cow" melody to it. Add in the drumline of a marching band and an Oz Fest encore and you've got yourself one helluva party!
Although I should suggest that Fall Out Boy crap music one of my daughters is enamored with right now...Good Lord that's some crappy music!

[ChocoMare]

Oh geez. One more thing we forgot: Kazoos!!!! :D

The nice thing about kazoos is you can easily hold it in your mouth, thereby leaving your hands free for bongos, spoons (nice touch J Swan :D) and tamborines. Ooooh, yeah!!! Tamborines! That means gypsy's. :winkgrin: Wooo hooo!!!!!! Now this party is crankin'.

Ha-cha-cha-cha. :lol:

[Instant Karma]

I dunno.
A situation like this calls for bagpipes.
Maybe we can book the Dropkick Murphys.


I would TOTALLY be there for that, and many men, in kilts, with nothing else, and a nice strong breeze:D

[tweeter]

You need the Wicked Tinkers!

http://www.wickedtinkers.com/


The Wicked Tinkers are a must! and the Clogging, I've always wanted to give that a try.
Spoons, bongos, kazoos, we should get national tv coverage for this one!

Now, I was thinking (always dangerous when I'm still on my first cuppa coffee). We need to do something constructive while we're there. How about doing some poop sculptures. No doubt "someone" could save manure for us. We could use our imaginations or do something like the Leaning Tower of Poop, the Poopel Tower or the great Poop Pyramid?

If need be, we could fill up those horse trailers and pickum-up beds with poop and bring some with us.

[minnie]

If they have restrictions as to paint color, I imagine that a single wide trailer wouldn't be allowed either? Oh, oh, and find the Oldest, ugliest junkiest car and pickup truck you can find (that still runs) and park them in the front driveway. Even an old pickup that doesn't run, put it up on blocks and fill the back with dirt for a flowerbed. Urban art! Best wishes for you that this is soon just a bad memory and you'll be happily ensconced in your new home with horses in your backyard.......and remember - "don't get mad, get even" and revenge is best when it's stone cold and totally unexpected!

[gieriscm]

The Wicked Tinkers are a must! and the If need be, we could fill up those horse trailers and pickum-up beds with poop and bring some with us.

Then we fire up the manure spreader and run it right down the property line. Hope the wind isn't blowing too hard in their direction that day!

Your story makes me glad that the land I bought has no zoning, no covenants, and the only restriction is I any structures have to be 10' off the property line.

[AnotherRound]

I hope you realize that the reason the city told you you had to tear down your house is because they hope you are dumb enough to just be intimidated and do it. They know they are responsible for the problems, and they don't want you to hire and attorney, because then they will have to pay for the changes, and they will be in big trouble.

Let us know about the attorney, please?

[Blue Yonder]

Horsecrazy, I've been watching your thread and sending good thoughts for a positive outcome for you. Having had some house drama of our own when we were trying to build, I understand how all-encompassing that sort of problem can feel.

So I pass to you an uplifting anecdote, to underpin the value of a lawyer in this situation. In the midst of some legal goings-on at the company I worked for, when I was worrying and fretting along, the old-school, big-gun lawyer who worked for my CEO boss looked at me and said "Darlin', (because this is TX, after all, and he was my grandfatherly buddy), there's no contract you can sign that I can't get us out of free and clear." Entirely true? Probably not, but for me it illuminated the gray area in the law that I was thinking was so white and black.

I hope your lawyer is a well-seasoned one, and I hope s/he eats the lunch of the bureaucrats who decided to try to intimidate you from the outset.

[CenterlineGirl2]

I hope you realize that the reason the city told you you had to tear down your house is because they hope you are dumb enough to just be intimidated and do it. They know they are responsible for the problems, and they don't want you to hire and attorney, because then they will have to pay for the changes, and they will be in big trouble.

EXACTLY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Please keep this in mind!

Good luck, *hugs* and keep us posted!

[MassageLady]

Have you considered writing to your local legislator? If you have the permits signed by the inspector that 'all is well' and you could proceed-then they are the ones that need to fix things. I would go over their heads (which couldn't be too difficult, since they are up their @ss:lol:)

[Horsecrazy27]

I hope you realize that the reason the city told you you had to tear down your house is because they hope you are dumb enough to just be intimidated and do it. They know they are responsible for the problems, and they don't want you to hire and attorney, because then they will have to pay for the changes, and they will be in big trouble.

Let us know about the attorney, please?

Well we are not laying down that easy.


I have still been struggling with trying to stay happy---this thread is helping me--Thank God! I worked out today with my Personal Trainer and he brought weights---gosh, my ARMS!! That helped becasue we did a long punching session and I was sure using my fist on some make believe faces that suddenly appeared on his open hand. He was yelling--you get them.....WOW--keep going. I was soaked with sweat and it helped get some stress out.

I'm a believer and know that with God at my side--let no man be against me! Here is what my daily scripture was 2 days ago--thought I'd share to my fellow believers--if you don't believe, it still holds some nice positive info. What ever the case, it really really made me feel good. I just read it again and need to read it every hour!!!!! (talking about me--not pushing anything on to anyone--I would never do that.)

Today's Scripture
“If God is for us, who can be against us” (Romans 8:31)?

Today's Word from Joel and Victoria Osteen

As a believer in Jesus and a child of His, God is on your side today! If you haven’t thought about it yet today, remember, you are created for greatness. You have the seed of Almighty God inside of you. There is no obstacle that can stop you. There is no disadvantage that can hold you back. You’re in the palm of God’s hand, and He has equipped and empowered you for everything. When God is on your side, He sets the right people in your path. In fact, He’s already released favor into your future. He’s planning for you to come in to new seasons of increase. Have you given up on a dream? God is on your side, and He wants to resurrect it. Have you given up on a family member? God is on your side, and He wants to restore that relationship. God is on your side, and He has a plan for victory in every area of your life. Let that sink down into your heart today. Begin to expect His favor. Expect Him to work in your life. Focus on the fact that God has equipped you. He has anointed you. Your best days are still out in front of you! If God is for you, no one can rise against you! As you meditate on this promise, it will become real to you. You will walk in the favor and victory God has in store for you!
A Prayer for Today

Heavenly Father, thank You for being on my side today. Thank You for equipping and empowering me to accomplish everything You’ve called me to. Give me a deeper revelation of Your love for me today so that I can live the abundant life You have prepared for me. In Jesus’ Name. Amen.


Okay more party plans----

sirons (sp??) everytime someone wins a prize.
Blow horns
I like the poop sculptures

Massage Lady--you crack me up!!! Yes, we have those cards, but the City said, "we are not responsible for our mistakes or for permits that were a mistake". ????????

OH geez--if we could all be so lucky. Whops, I didn't mean to puch your lights out--sorry, remember, I'm not responsible for my mistakes. :) ERRRRRRR. what is wrong with our government????

[AnotherRound]

Well we are not laying down that easy.


Oh, hooray! Now I have to g and read the rest, but I am so glad about this part of the post, I just had to do a happy dance! Ok.:)

[AnotherRound]

OK, finished your post, and still doing a happy dance, especially that part about the Uncle.

Man, just because those dimbulbs at the town hall SAY they aren't responsible for mistakes, doesn't mean that they legally aren't. Everyone is responsible for their own work, that's what liability insurance is about. If the town ain't responsible for doing things right, then why are there town ordinances and laws? Well, I'm not an attorney, but if you have two on your case, it will all come out right, I just know it.

Excellent personal trainer, BTW. Did right by you, I'd say.:yes:

[poltroon]

I so love the marching bagpipes. I think they should march up and down the property line, many many times.

I suggest adding a troupe of mimes.

[tweeter]

I so love the marching bagpipes. I think they should march up and down the property line, many many times.

I suggest adding a troupe of mimes.


I think it'd be a terrific opportunity for all of us to learn to play the bagpipes, I mean since we're there and all. Bagpipe Lessons. YES!!!

[Alagirl]

We forgot jousting, and Yabusame...we can also train to re-enact the civilwar - or the indian wars...lots of cannons! :cool:

[BuddyRoo]

Canons and Jousting AND bagpipe lessons? I am SO there!!! :lol:

Super pleased at your attorney hook up. Now let them worry about it for a bit and go play w/ your horses!

[x-rab]

I just happen to know a gentleman who is a re-enactor who has his own cannon. Since he was in charge of certifying all the artillary used in the big Gettsburg re-enactment (sp), he could probably come up with a few cannons in your area. You know you might want to start your own unit, buy a cannon and you can get certified by the BATF for your own powder magazine. Just think of the 4th of July celebrations you could have. The possibilies are endless.

Also, since you are in Arizona, just think of the lovely catus gardens you can grown all along your fense line too. Grow your own prickly pear catus and make your own catus margarita's. Might have to watch the horses though, I think they snack on the stuff when it is young and soft.

[Ghazzu]

We forgot jousting, and Yabusame...we can also train to re-enact the civilwar - or the indian wars...lots of cannons! :cool:

Buzkashi!
Buzkashi!

[DressageGeek "Ribbon Ho"]

And the re-enactments could be done for charity! I promise to be the announcer, if someone can get me a big booming megaphone ro speaker system, and I will give the LOUD play by play, and make up whatever I don't see. Points will be awarded arbitrarily. Extra points for more noise and bagpipes.

[x-rab]

A charity idea would be a Woodstock re-enactment. Get all the tribute bands to play and have a three day event. Those old Marshall amps can really rattle the windows. Of course, after all this you will have the most seriously bomb proof horses in the 50 states. A bomb proofing seminar every other weekend would be fun too. You could invite all the mounted patrols near you to come out and train their horses at your seminars.

[DressageGeek "Ribbon Ho"]

You know...not to hijack the thread...but we could have a sort of NH demonstration clinic in addition, creating large obstacles horses can jump over. And cows. We need cows.

[tweeter]

Ummmm. cows. Can we put them in the same pen as the goats and sheep?

[PalominoMorgan]

You know what are REALLY annoying.... geese and peacocks. Those two flocks would NEVER shut up. I'm not much on birds, but if the geese could wander to the neighbors' yards and leave those little green grenades on their lawn... well... all the better. Oh, you SO need a donkey to move in with the horses. Bet the neighbors would LOVE the wake up calls in the morning. You could always be running just a few minutes late so the donkey gets a good alarm bray going AM and PM. LOL. Oh, the possibilities. Hey, the holidays are coming. The donkey, cows, sheep, and geese would all be part of a live nativity on the yard. :)

[J Swan]

You know...not to hijack the thread...but we could have a sort of NH demonstration clinic in addition, creating large obstacles horses can jump over. And cows. We need cows.


Good idea. Linda Parelli can give us a demonstration of bitless, bridleless, bareback dressage on Kevin the baroque dressage pig.

It kills two birds with one stone, as Kevin will no doubt voice his displeasure at being chased with a kohlrabi stick - as well as being ridden by someone who doesn't know anything about pig whispering.

His squealing will no doubt set off the cows, sheep, goats, peacocks and guinea hens as well. The whole menagerie could be the Opening Act for the Woodstock of the New Millenium. Pipes, Spoons, Punk Rock, Kazoo's.... kind of sounds like something PDQ Bach would have loved!

(of course - you'd have to know who PDQ Bach was to get the joke)

The finale could be the 1812 Overture - complete with reenactors and cannons.


Speaking of jokes - when I was a kid I lived in Belgium (that's not the joke but it is a funny little country). My Dad worked at SHAPE (DeGaulle had kicked NATO out of France so they set up shop in Brussels).

Anyway - my folks had a big huge party - I mean - HUGE - with VIP's from all the NATO countries. The mayor was there, British, Italian, Germans.... and of course - some gorgeous men in kilts.

My mom and her best friend got a bit drunk and they spent the evening trying to sneak peeks under the men's kilts. Evidently they had a really good time.


(But then everyone got sick from food poisoning and ended up in the hospital - big international incident - but that's another story.....)

[railijumper28]

Screw punk rock bands, what about bad '80's music?

Seriously though, the county or whoever said they wanted to do this "quickly and quietly". Do just the opposite. Talk to your lawyer, and call in the media.:D

Good luck!!! And we can send you some roosters!!

[ChocoMare]

NOW I know what we've all forgotten!!! A trebuchet!

Yes, folks. A trebuchet. Perfect for launching allllll sorts of fun items: flaming pianos, old refrigerators, compact cars. Gee, think of all the great stuff we could fling into and over the neighbor's house!

Boy, Tanya. You've gotta clear this mess real soon. All this party planning is making me hungry. :winkgrin:

[Horsecrazy27]

Lord help me.

My husband just lost his mind tonight---cussing, slamming, screaming. I feel as though I'm close behind him.


ERRRRRRRRRR.

Great--here come the tears.

[dacasodivine]

Time to get the press involved. E-mail or call your story to every newspaper and television station until someone is interested and you get it out there. I bet the city will bend over backwards to resolve it and you will have lawyers offering to take the case against them for what they have put you through!

[Alagirl]

Screw punk rock bands, what about bad '80's music?

Seriously though, the county or whoever said they wanted to do this "quickly and quietly". Do just the opposite. Talk to your lawyer, and call in the media.:D

Good luck!!! And we can send you some roosters!!

Muhahahaha, I am trying not to take it personal...it's a friend of mine, I am sure they'd jump at the chance! :winkgrin::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:



There is no bad 80s music, FYI! :D

[stryder]

Time to get the press involved. E-mail or call your story to every newspaper and television station until someone is interested and you get it out there. I bet the city will bend over backwards to resolve it and you will have lawyers offering to take the case against them for what they have put you through!

Don't call everyone. No one will invest the resources required unless they have some exclusivity. The newspapers to call would be the East Valley Tribune OR Arizona Republic. The Tribune has an office in Gilbert. Anything smaller won't have the impact on the city. They will not want to be embarrased in front of their neighboring cities - Chandler and the others. It will be too complicated for tv, although it's a last resort if no one else will pick it up.

Be prepared. The basic story line is this: we had our property surveyed. The city accepted the paperwork and granted us permits. We hired competent contractors and workers. Work started and was regularly inspected by the city. We relied on them to do their jobs. Work progressed. All of our paperwork is in order. And now, just short of completion, the city is ordering us to tear down our dream house. If we cannot rely on the city's inspectors, what good are they? We are new to the area and suspect cronyism. Because what's happened to us so far makes absolutely no sense.

Please try not to cry. It makes newspaper reporters crazy.

But then, I've only been in the newspaper business for 30 years.

good luck.

[Horsecrazy27]

Well, I only broke into tears when seeing my husband loose it today. He has soooooooooo much other stress right now (his company is getting ready to do lay off's and he is the only one doing the 12 jobs that were there) Then this whole mess.

I am going to print and save your "report"...love it. :) thank you thank you thank you.

God Bless you guys and your help has been doing wonders for me!!!!!

I'd be very very lost right now. SO, I'm so thankful for you guys!

HUGS HUGS HUGS!!!

Tanya


Don't call everyone. No one will invest the resources required unless they have some exclusivity. The newspapers to call would be the East Valley Tribune OR Arizona Republic. The Tribune has an office in Gilbert. Anything smaller won't have the impact on the city. They will not want to be embarrased in front of their neighboring cities - Chandler and the others. It will be too complicated for tv, although it's a last resort if no one else will pick it up.

Be prepared. The basic story line is this: we had our property surveyed. The city accepted the paperwork and granted us permits. We hired competent contractors and workers. Work started and was regularly inspected by the city. We relied on them to do their jobs. Work progressed. All of our paperwork is in order. And now, just short of completion, the city is ordering us to tear down our dream house. If we cannot rely on the city's inspectors, what good are they? We are new to the area and suspect cronyism. Because what's happened to us so far makes absolutely no sense.

Please try not to cry. It makes newspaper reporters crazy.

But then, I've only been in the newspaper business for 30 years.

good luck.

[pegasus209]

Horsecrazy--BIG Hugs for you both!!!! and hang in there!!!
Ask your attorney tomorrow to recommend someone who WILL take it.
I second the newspaper idea too, that town's reaction would be very interesting to see! :lol:

[tweeter]

Lots of hugs and jingles for you this morning. Don't forget to write down your questions, I always forget to ask something I wanted to know about.

What is your recourse against the surveyor, the inspectors, etc? Who else made mistakes? Take it to the state level? And now my mind is blank. I need more coffee.

Do any of the TV stations there have a "troubleshooter" line?

[J Swan]

Time for the trebuchet......



For the OP - the very same thing happened to a couple up in Maryland - it was on the news a while back. It wasn't their error at all - and the lady was in tears because it's not like they had 300K to tear it down and rebuild it - and everyone was pointing fingers at everyone else. I don't know how it turned out - but I can't help but think that perhaps they got a call from an attorney or two, or even reached a settlement.


Your attorney is telling you that the case is too hard for him - and he doesn't want to expend the effort. So good riddance. Think of this as a blessing in disguise, ok?

Just because a lot of mistakes were made, does not mean you cannot prevail or reach a settlement. It means that you have to get the right attorney. If you are willing to travel a bit for an appointment, you may find a better selection of litigators outside your community.

PM me and I'll point you to some methods of seeking better counsel.

[Alagirl]

Buzkashi!
Buzkashi!


WOOT!

Of course!

And Horseball - Polo is so yesterday's event! ;)

[ESG]

Don't give up, sweetie. You've not yet begun to fight. Just because one @$$hat attorney is too lazy to take on your case, doesn't mean it's not winnable. IME, attorneys that give you a line like this (and yes, it is a line) do so because they'd actually have to work for that $300 per hour that they're charging you. And when there are a plethora of other cases that they can write a couple of letters and file a couple of motions to charge the same for, yours doesn't sound tempting. Also, be glad he told you at the beginning of the process, instead of getting halfway through the process and giving up.

Huge jingles and lots of {{{{{{{{hugs}}}}}}}} to both you and hubby. Been in your shoes, and they're not comfy. But you will prevail, if you keep your head and be tenacious. Or, as my mother calls me, stubborn. I can think of no greater compliment. :D

[WhiteCamry]

In addition to all the fine, indeed, creative ideas for half-barns, hogs, bagpipes and such ...
what are the gun laws in Arizona? Mayhaps a a "guns west" festival or "desert edition" of the semi-annual Knob Creek Shootout (http://www.knobcreekshoot.com/)in West Point, KY, could be arranged?

[x-rab]

How is your local government set up? Here in VA a locality can not take an action unless they are given expressed authority to do so by the General Assembly. That is not the norm. However, are you dealing with a city or a county. Who has legal presedence over the other if any? Does your legislature have any authority over the localities? Dig and fight, take it to the next level. Appeal, appeal, appeal.

As for the newspapers, don 't approch it as a human interest story, present it as a fraud and government malfeasience. Ask for an investigative reporter to find out if they have treated anyone else like this. Reporter could also check out other errors by the surveyor, contractor and/or inspectors and how they were handled. Let's talk dirty here. Lets talk Freedom of Information requests for all rulings of the Board in the past x years dpending on when the current administration was elected.

Post large signs on your property stating your problem with the local government, surveyor and contractor and how much their errors are costing you. Fense off that right away now. Picket the board meetings citing discrimination against horse people. Lots can be done.

[Alagirl]

And I wonder how well the individual screw-ups are covered for their misdeeds. I think they'd be a lot more willing to play ball if they would have to worry about covering their ASSets as well. Let's face it, most people do not have the money to spend 850k twice on the same house...not even considering the lawyer fees...

[poltroon]

Time for the trebuchet......



For the OP - the very same thing happened to a couple up in Maryland - it was on the news a while back. It wasn't their error at all - and the lady was in tears because it's not like they had 300K to tear it down and rebuild it - and everyone was pointing fingers at everyone else. I don't know how it turned out - but I can't help but think that perhaps they got a call from an attorney or two, or even reached a settlement.


Your attorney is telling you that the case is too hard for him - and he doesn't want to expend the effort. So good riddance. Think of this as a blessing in disguise, ok?

Just because a lot of mistakes were made, does not mean you cannot prevail or reach a settlement. It means that you have to get the right attorney. If you are willing to travel a bit for an appointment, you may find a better selection of litigators outside your community.

PM me and I'll point you to some methods of seeking better counsel.

JSwan, I so value your voice of reason and experience on this BB!

You know, it occurs to me he may also be telling you that he's too close to the people who've made mistakes. He may be too tied in with your local government officials, and not interested in pissing them off as much as he'd need to do to win. Something to think about, and something that may make using a somewhat less local attorney make more sense.

It wasn't your mistake. The proposed "remedy" is completely unreasonable (and I might add, environmentally irresponsible). There is a way to a better solution.

Good luck.

[gieriscm]

In addition to all the fine, indeed, creative ideas for half-barns, hogs, bagpipes and such ...
what are the gun laws in Arizona? Mayhaps a a "guns west" festival or "desert edition" of the semi-annual Knob Creek Shootout (http://www.knobcreekshoot.com/)in West Point, KY, could be arranged?

While AZ's laws in this matter are pretty relaxed, the OP's neighborhood probably couldn't safely handle the kind of firepower used at KCR. I've attended twice and if the OP had the amount of land necessary to hold such an event, she could sunbathe nude without exposing herself to the neighbors. :D

OTOH, a cowboy action shooting clinic could be held safely and would probably be just as annoying.

[DressageGeek "Ribbon Ho"]

I'm just grateful you've gotten good advice here from people who know what they're talking about.

Besides newspapers, the local news stations could also be a possibility - each one of ours has a "You Paid For It" or something similar, where they track down horror stories from consumers and "make it right."

So if the newspapers won't take it, maybe a TV station will?

[goeslikestink]

dont let them beat you -- chin up and fight back

[Horsecrazy27]

deleting...contacting some help

[naters]

I am on here right now, but not a lawyer.....

How about the Agriculture Department for your state?

University Agriculture extension agents?

Jingles for you!

[xegeba]

Anyone on here right now?

I talked to 3 Lawyers today, one is going to review our case over the weekend. I also found another lawyer who is suppose to be very "scrappy" and a "bull dog". He is $450 an hour!!! GULP!

I have made some calls and have heard back from some other people--they are not sure they can help, but they are going to call me on Monday. I also spoke with:

AZ Info Dept of Housing

Have calls into:

Govenors Office
Attorney General
Dept of Relestate (sp)---sorry lack of brain power at 1 am this morning.
Citizen aid office
AZ Reg. of Surveyors
AZ Board of Tech Reg.


I'm hoarse today from all the acid in the back of my throat and talking about this all day.


REally need to talk to someone who knows the law right now, I'm having a panic attack about something that happened today to my husband--regarding this---total harrassment. Post your permit number and take a picture of your card...and post that. Hit 'em where it hurts.

[Horsecrazy27]

Post your permit number and take a picture of your card...and post that. Hit 'em where it hurts.
Thank you--for the newspaper--gosh, that would be good.

[Horsecrazy27]

I am on here right now, but not a lawyer.....

How about the Agriculture Department for your state?

University Agriculture extension agents?

Jingles for you!

you have a pm...thanks for the jingles

[goeslikestink]

anyway to get a petition up aswell just a thought but if this has happened to you locally it might have happened to others
beign harrassed by so call neigbours and stuff
what a bout calling all the real estates or properties developers and such
ie estate agents-- and getting some to sign a petition to back up your claim

for instance- not the same senerio but priciipal the same type thing

in the local woods i got chased by 4x4 cars and there was heaps of dumped rubbish ie fly tipping-
anyways got chased onto land owners property and said sorry as it wasnt my fault
so land owner said its keeps happening and hes complained
so off i tootled only that same after noon they harrass the 4x4s that is harass neighbour with young kid on baord she tripped pony bolted luckly they both ok.. but that was enough for me
so i started a petition - found out that loads of people had complained and nothing done
all the surrounding parishes had-- so got them altogether to complain asone unit
then bwag was formed-- ie bredhurst woodland action group
it has its own web page now and things have moved on since may 2005
woods cleared 4x4 banned and onlyto by way- hopefully getting it down graded to bridleway only
lots of things have improved etc

maybe a get a petition up and back up your claim as you cant be the only one with tis problem
i dunno its a thought-- fights are won by brians and not fistycuffs

[Horsecrazy27]

Can someone help me write a petetion ==never done that before

[Horsecrazy27]

ODD things are happening---- it is like a Mafia situtation. I'm kinda freaking out! I'm going to see if things continue to do this--if so, going to the police.

[redhorse5]

Many things that you do right now can affect how people will look at this. Don't do anything yourself until you have an attorney representing you and then don't do anything without their advice. You have a lot of money invested here and petitions, newspapers, etc can possibly ruin your chances at a reasonable solution to this mess.

Do keep a very accurate record of phone conversations, video or photograph anything that might be of use and spend your time reconstructing the order of events. Your attorney will want that and you need to do it while you can remember all the details. If this goes to court it might be years before you give a deposition. You need to have your facts straight and the dates and times of events very well recorded.

Good luck. Also although you might get a lot of support through this site be very careful of posting details. Anything you do might be a problem.

[Horsecrazy27]

HEY EVERYONE....

Can I ask that in your responses, if you can delete my info off of it..... getting paranoid.

thanks!
hc27

[Claddagh]

OMG – I am so sorry that your dream house has been turned into a *house of horrors*. From everything that you have posted it seems blatantly obvious that you did everything that you were told must be done in order to build your house/farm. It is also obvious that mistakes were made – BUT – they were NOT your mistakes.

You need to trace your building “history” back to the beginning and nail down where the mistakes started. Were you given incorrect permit information/requirements by the town? Was your surveying company negligent in performing the survey? Was the town official who “okayed” the survey negligent? Were any of the inspectors who issued the building permits negligent, i.e. giving you a permit to build when such a permit should not have been granted for the planned location on your building site?

After nailing down where the first error was committed, then go along and find each and every subsequent error that led to the ultimate building of your house in the “wrong” place.

Then you’ll need to go after each and every individual, office, and company who contributed to this ultimate disaster.

The town wants an easy fix - for them! They say tear the house down – period. What do they care – it’s no loss in their lives or in their pocket? Tell them fine, you’ll do that when every one of those responsible for the house being built where it is is held financially responsible for their errors! It’s a simple matter of liability! Find out what the total cost would be to start over. Then let those responsible for your needing to start over, pay for the “fix”. (And tack on a good hefty sum for everything this fiasco has cost you – both financially and emotionally).

It goes without saying that you need a good, strong, ethical and committed lawyer on your side to get the results that you deserve. He’s out there, you just need to find him. :yes:

I wish you good luck. It will be a long journey, but I think when all of the facts are exposed, you will prevail! :yes:

[minnie]

What Claddagh said........I'm not that organized of a thinker!

[zoehesed]

If this is Mafia-ish...I wish my best to you.

Some friends of my family went through a similar type thing down in FL. They owned a tea room in Tampa and they were trying to either sell or purchase the lot they were in front of. They (Mafia) lined up a buyer/seller who backed out at the last minute leaving the tea room owner on a limb in whatever deal they were trying to work out...the mafia then forced them to sell the tea room to them by threatening her husband and kid... they wanted it to build a hotel or something on (they torn down the tea room). The only way out for her was to come up with a HUGE amount of money...which was next to impossible. It was all done very tricky...

I really feel for you and I hope a better outcome happens for you. I really am rooting for you as you fight this...I really cant stand it when people try to take advantage of others bc they think they can get away with it! I have a feeling that all your original stuff was right to begin with and they are trying to bully you into giving up your home. Did you have a second survey done? Did it conflict with theirs or go along with it?

[MistyBlue]

Organized families generally tend to stay away from zoning issues regarding private residences.

[Sannois]

HEY EVERYONE....

Can I ask that in your responses, if you can delete my info off of it..... getting paranoid.

thanks!
hc27

I am so sorry that things are getting worse. As far as deleting your responses. You can just go into edit mode, hit edit again and it will have a box that says delete entire message.
Jingles and prayers for you! :(:(

[hitchinmygetalong]

Sannois, she is asking those who have quoted her posts in THEIR posts to go in and delete them.

To the OP: If you are truly concerned about your safety, contact the mods asap and ask them to delete the thread. It can be done.

Best of luck to you.

[goeslikestink]

i have pm you done two in my time with excellent results

have email erin to close delete it all

[Erin]

The mods do not close or delete threads by request. If we did, we'd spend our entire day doing that sort of thing.

You can delete your own posts, and request that those who have quoted you edit their posts, just as the OP has done.

[BasqueMom]

Woo-what a thread!

Would definitely recommend another survey. The survey on the first horse property we
were going to buy was messed up and we didn't discover it until the week before closing.
Involved fence lines by neighbors in wrong place, easements for bridle path, and our losing
a chunk of ground if it didn't get straightened out.

It didn't in time so we ended up looking again and found a better place, but we also had to find another buyer as the seller of the first property was going to buy our house.

Anyway, many good thoughts that this can be worked out to your satisfaction.

[Bogey2]

shoot I have such a boring life....and I think I will keep it!:lol:

[pegasus209]

:eek:
Oh horsecrazy! Hang in there!
I'm getting scared for you guys.. however, I KNOW there is an awesome lawyer out there who WILL fix this--just hang tight, and you and hubby take time for a great dinner out, with plenty of booze! ;)
sending jingles for you and this horrendous mess..and more {{HUGS}}!

[YankeeLawyer]

OP -- if someone is threatening or harassing you, please go to the police.

[Bluey]

Woo-what a thread!

Would definitely recommend another survey. The survey on the first horse property we
were going to buy was messed up and we didn't discover it until the week before closing.
Involved fence lines by neighbors in wrong place, easements for bridle path, and our losing
a chunk of ground if it didn't get straightened out.

It didn't in time so we ended up looking again and found a better place, but we also had to find another buyer as the seller of the first property was going to buy our house.

Anyway, many good thoughts that this can be worked out to your satisfaction.


That is what title insurance is for.
ALWAYS have title insurance when buying land, cost very little and it is rarely needed, but if you need it, priceless.

I deleted my four pots related to this topic, as requested.
Good luck.:yes:

[clanter]

Arizona uses the Public Land Survey System (PLSS) which uses a basic units of are being the township and sections. If this particle is in the upper northwest of a township, there is great possibilities of a survey may have errored because the grid work is rectangular and the earth is round, adjustments must be made periodically; all sections cannot be one square mile or all townships 36 square miles.

The adjustments are done within each township by starting the sectional surveys of the township in the southeast corner and moving progressively toward the northwest corner. The northernmost and westernmost tier of sections—11 in all—are allowed to deviate from one square mile, but the other 25 are not. This method accommodates the curvature effects, and also allows for the correction of errors made during the surveying—which were not uncommon—without overly compromising the rectangular nature of the system.

More than once major errors have occurred in Arizona, one a town was off by 25 feet (I believe that the corrct distance) because a benchmark was improperly located this ended up requiring the re-plotting and issuance of new deeds for the entire town.

With so much having been deleted from the posts it hard to really tell what is going on but you also review "boundary by acquiescence" as there are several cases in AZ where as the court has upheld the traditional boundaries. Mealey vs. Arndt sounds pretty close to what may have happen here, where a boundary was assumed to be correct and it wasn't. However the court up-held the assumed boundary position ruling the "Establish Boundary by Acquiescence of Adjoining Landowners"
http://www.cofad1.state.az.us/opinionfiles/CV/CV020424.pdf


When we built or barn, we were told the backset was X distance, we went 50% greater. After the barn was completed we were told that the Real backset was actually 2.5 times the distance we were originally told... they told us we were going to need to tear it down... however I had complete notes, names, dates, times of who had said what and when which I present to a board of adjustments hearing and was given a variance.

[Bogie]

Before going to the newspaper or sending around a petition, please consult a lawyer first! You do NOT want to do something that hurts your case inadvertently. I work in public relations and I can't count how many times I've seen media stories go awry because someone is 1) either misquoted or 2) says something that the regret later! I know that many here have suggested that you go to your local news media and it's not a bad idea - but it would be better if you had a better legal understanding of your case and had your attorney with you to make sure the interview doesn't get off course. Remember that a reporter is looking for NEWS he/she isn't necessarily on anyone's side.

$450/hour may well be what a good lawyer will cost and it is better -- in a case like this -- to go with an attorney that really understands this type of law. Yes it's expensive, but if they can help you, will cost less than tearing your house down and rebuilding. A lawyer will be able to coach you about what you can/cannot say in public, as well.

I know it must be very hard to try and stay calm, but the best thing you can do is to say nothing until you find someone to represent you.

Good luck!

[Claddagh]

...
$450/hour may well be what a good lawyer will cost and it is better -- in a case like this -- to go with an attorney that really understands this type of law. Yes it's expensive, but if they can help you, will cost less than tearing your house down and rebuilding. A lawyer will be able to coach you about what you can/cannot say in public, as well.

I know it must be very hard to try and stay calm, but the best thing you can do is to say nothing until you find someone to represent you.

Good luck!

Ditto what Bogie advised. And, as expensive as a good lawyer will be, it will be money very well spent. You can include in your lawsuit that all of your legal expenses be paid by the other side (when they lose!). ;)

[Anne FS]

What on earth happened? I obviously missed something big. Mafia, contacting the police, having everybody delete posts....can someone pm me and tell me what's going on. So sorry horsecrazy27, that it seems like such a nightmare. I'm so sorry and curb chains are jingling for you!

[lcw579]

Before going to the newspaper or sending around a petition, please consult a lawyer first! You do NOT want to do something that hurts your case inadvertently. I work in public relations and I can't count how many times I've seen media stories go awry because someone is 1) either misquoted or 2) says something that the regret later! I know that many here have suggested that you go to your local news media and it's not a bad idea - but it would be better if you had a better legal understanding of your case and had your attorney with you to make sure the interview doesn't get off course. Remember that a reporter is looking for NEWS he/she isn't necessarily on anyone's side.

$450/hour may well be what a good lawyer will cost and it is better -- in a case like this -- to go with an attorney that really understands this type of law. Yes it's expensive, but if they can help you, will cost less than tearing your house down and rebuilding. A lawyer will be able to coach you about what you can/cannot say in public, as well.

I know it must be very hard to try and stay calm, but the best thing you can do is to say nothing until you find someone to represent you.

Good luck!

:yes::yes::yes: Very Good Advice - I sent you a PM with the name of a very good attorney.

[Horsecrazy27]

My hubby and I went away for overnight up North.

I'm much more at peace this weekend and I'm having faith that God is in Control of this.

PLEASE vision us inside our house, living there, being HAPPY!! I am in serious need of POSITIVE vibes and I believe that those will come back and be what happens.

I have read all the post and I have several other attorneys to contact on Monday. I also have one I'm waiting to hear back from that we met on Friday.

I think all the jingles have helped my soul, because I am at a million times better place right now than what I was last week (spiritually). SO, I'm giving you all the credit!! GOD bless you guys!! I wouldn't wish this on anyones sworn enemy. May GOOD prevail!!

You know this is how I started looking at things this morning:

We found this property by pure chance, we have always believed it was a gift from above.
The people we have helped build this have all been long time friends that have been soooooooo excited to help us out after the many years of my husband doing favors for them. It was built by love!!! Built by kindness and in many cases generousity! How can a house with that much LOVE already IN it be caught in this---how can it loose!! It can't!!! It won't loose.

I am sooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo grateful for this house, it is a dream come true! It is beautiful and perfect for us. I would love for all of you to come over and "meet" this house soon!!! LOL I can't wait to share it with everyone and hope to raise our children in there!!

I think if we can make it over this "battlefield" we can have a happy life there, I belive this is a HUGE HUGE HUGE test. I hope I can prove to be worthy of this gift.

I'm am strong again and tired of being sad about this---won't let it ruin anymore of my days. Life is short and it has taken enough of my days already. I'm going to fight---for goodness. Goodness HAS to win.

Thanks you guys!

Bless you all!
T

[BasqueMom]

Glad the shock is wearing off. Here's some Texas-sized jingles...hope they help. The
"perfect" lawyer will help even more, I'm sure. Hugs!

[Alagirl]

My hubby and I went away for overnight up North.

I'm much more at peace this weekend and I'm having faith that God is in Control of this.

PLEASE vision us inside our house, living there, being HAPPY!! I am in serious need of POSITIVE vibes and I believe that those will come back and be what happens.

I have read all the post and I have several other attorneys to contact on Monday. I also have one I'm waiting to hear back from that we met on Friday.

I think all the jingles have helped my soul, because I am at a million times better place right now than what I was last week (spiritually). SO, I'm giving you all the credit!! GOD bless you guys!! I wouldn't wish this on anyones sworn enemy. May GOOD prevail!!

You know this is how I started looking at things this morning:

We found this property by pure chance, we have always believed it was a gift from above.
The people we have helped build this have all been long time friends that have been soooooooo excited to help us out after the many years of my husband doing favors for them. It was built by love!!! Built by kindness and in many cases generousity! How can a house with that much LOVE already IN it be caught in this---how can it loose!! It can't!!! It won't loose.

I am sooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo grateful for this house, it is a dream come true! It is beautiful and perfect for us. I would love for all of you to come over and "meet" this house soon!!! LOL I can't wait to share it with everyone and hope to raise our children in there!!

I think if we can make it over this "battlefield" we can have a happy life there, I belive this is a HUGE HUGE HUGE test. I hope I can prove to be worthy of this gift.

I'm am strong again and tired of being sad about this---won't let it ruin anymore of my days. Life is short and it has taken enough of my days already. I'm going to fight---for goodness. Goodness HAS to win.

Thanks you guys!

Bless you all!
T



More jingles coming your way! I am a firm believer that things turn out in the way best for us.

hugs and best wishes to you and your hubby!

[Instant Karma]

HUGE jingles from PA- you are in our thoughts!

[AnotherRound]

We found this property by pure chance, we have always believed it was a gift from above

Apparently its not.

...I am sooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo grateful for this house, it is a dream come true! It is beautiful and perfect for us.

I don't know what you think is right and good for you, but I wouldn't be so quick to lable this house a god-send. If you decide to stick this out and fight it, I wish you luck, but I do hope your happiness isn't dependent on psyching yourself into thinking something of a nightmare is beautiful and perfect. Please be smart and put your energies into productive ventures, and protect yourself and your family. There is no shame in admitting you were taken for a ride, get out, and get as even as you can. Good luck.

[EponaRoan]

I will say this about going to the media - be careful. With so many homes in the Phoenix area in foreclosure, much of the general public will not be particularly sympathetic to your situation and some of them could be rather vocal & unpleasant about it. How well would you handle that? Now if say - New Times - were to do an expose on the incompetance of the public officials who handle permits, etc, that would probably be another kettle of fish.

[ashebrook]

You may have already thought of this, but I thought I would point it out just to be safe. In less populated areas, there are only going to be a handful of good land use lawyers. In my area, there are three that EVERYONE who needs to get something done uses. So, if someone were to look through the minutes of the planning commission and board of supervisor's meetings, those three names would repeat over and over again. Those lawyers are so well known and so successful, that for a citizen just to mention that he is going to retain one of them can frequently bring a swift resolution.

I would look through those minutes to find the names of the lawyers in your area who are consistently successful.

Also, if push comes to shove, could you have the house moved? I have seen several houses moved around here and have heard that the house is kept so stable during the move that you don't even have to take the pictures off the wall. It might cost $30-50k, but that is much less painful than tearing down and rebuilding.

[Horsecrazy27]

Apparently its not.



I don't know what you think is right and good for you, but I wouldn't be so quick to lable this house a god-send. If you decide to stick this out and fight it, I wish you luck, but I do hope your happiness isn't dependent on psyching yourself into thinking something of a nightmare is beautiful and perfect. Please be smart and put your energies into productive ventures, and protect yourself and your family. There is no shame in admitting you were taken for a ride, get out, and get as even as you can. Good luck.


Trying to maintain my sanity and remember the good times and feelings that I had. I was in in this morning--it is gorgeous.

I'm not sure how to "feel" in all honesty about this....I have turned numb today. It is such a rollar coaster of emotions.

Thanks for your support though. :)

God Bless,
hc27

[Horsecrazy27]

You may have already thought of this, but I thought I would point it out just to be safe. In less populated areas, there are only going to be a handful of good land use lawyers. In my area, there are three that EVERYONE who needs to get something done uses. So, if someone were to look through the minutes of the planning commission and board of supervisor's meetings, those three names would repeat over and over again. Those lawyers are so well known and so successful, that for a citizen just to mention that he is going to retain one of them can frequently bring a swift resolution.

I would look through those minutes to find the names of the lawyers in your area who are consistently successful.

Also, if push comes to shove, could you have the house moved? I have seen several houses moved around here and have heard that the house is kept so stable during the move that you don't even have to take the pictures off the wall. It might cost $30-50k, but that is much less painful than tearing down and rebuilding.

good points. The house would have to be cut into 4 pieces. :( Can't discus more info.

[Horsecrazy27]

I will say this about going to the media - be careful. With so many homes in the Phoenix area in foreclosure, much of the general public will not be particularly sympathetic to your situation and some of them could be rather vocal & unpleasant about it. How well would you handle that? Now if say - New Times - were to do an expose on the incompetance of the public officials who handle permits, etc, that would probably be another kettle of fish.

Good points.....

[Horsecrazy27]

I'm not going to post here anymore on this....send me a pm and I'll add you to an email list. :)

Thank you all so much for your support!! You all have helped me soooooooo much.

God bless you all and your all in my prayers too!!

HC27

[Alagirl]

continued jingles. :yes:

[Horsecrazy27]

I know I said I wouldn't post on this thread anymore, but I need some serious jingles.


meeting with a new *L* today. Hope it goes well.

[trubandloki]

Jingles!!!

[tweeter]

Lots of jingles from NC. I've been thinking of you and wondering how things were going....

[Horsecrazy27]

I have new information---it is horrible.

Need lots and lots of support. I hate being a damper on this happy time of the year, but need the support and prayers like crazy. 1/2/08 is the deciding day... gulp.

Hard to not think about all that is going on.

[Dispatcher]

What is the new information you have received?

[tweeter]

Oh gosh Tanya, I'm so sorry. You've been on my mind a lot the last few days. Hugs and jingles going up for you.

[moonriverfarm]

What is the bad news????

[ESG]

Come ON, horsecrazy - either tell us what's going on, or belt up. This "Oh, I got horrible news, but I won't tell you!" stuff, is so juvenile. :no:

[minnie]

I'm guessing that because the situation is so totally "on the edge" right now, that although she can't divulge any of the information on a public board, she can and is asking for a little moral support. The situation she's in is "horrible" and a few Hang in theres, good lucks and wish the best posts would be much more appropriate than calling her juvenile. JMHO

[Instant Karma]

I hope it all works out in your best interest:yes:

What a horrible nightmare:(

[RegentLion]

I have been following your saga--and I do hope you post the final results here for all of us once it is resolved.

I am hoping for the best for you and your family!

[carolprudm]

Here's hoping for good news. Remember, it isn't necessarily decided even if they say it is

[AnotherRound]

Oh, the draaaahmma I'm about 15 years old, and I want - no, need - your attention and sympathy because horrid horrid things are happening to me and I can't tell you what, but I am STILL so very needy.

Sorry to say, what happens depends entirely on how well you handle the people in the room, not on how tightly everyone crosses their fingers, ankles and toes. Good luck. I hope you have met them with some mature, legal strength, and not the hand-wringing we have read on this thread.

I personally just don't think this house was "meant to be" - reading the handwriting on the wall and getting out of things like this early takes skill and maturity, and quick thinking. I hope you can take advantage of all the legal recourses surely available to you, if you need to back out of this deal. good luck. Nothing's worth this angst, I feel for you, but there comes a point where you expect folks to buck up and tidy up their messy affairs, and this hanging on, waiting to be told by the town what you can and can't do strikes me as playing the 'victim'.

I hope I am wrong, but that's the tone of this.

[Dispatcher]

Without going back and re-reading all of the posts--isn't this about the $750,000 home that now has a problem with the position of where it was built? A contractor error?

She did seem very dramatic in her explanations and it's odd that she would post a vague plea without explanation. Somehow, I'm having a little trouble believing the whole mess--or at least her descriptions. Not sure how she and her husband "going north" for the weekend helped her, not sure I understand the Mafia connections or her paranoia. A lot just doesn't sound right.

If her plight is indeed true, it certainly is a nightmare.

[Chardavej]

Quote:

"I personally just don't think this house was "meant to be" - reading the handwriting on the wall and getting out of things like this early takes skill and maturity, and quick thinking. I hope you can take advantage of all the legal recourses surely available to you, if you need to back out of this deal. good luck. Nothing's worth this angst, I feel for you, but there comes a point where you expect folks to buck up and tidy up their messy affairs, and this hanging on, waiting to be told by the town what you can and can't do strikes me as playing the 'victim'. "



Would you just throw in the towel if you invested almost 1 million dollars? I Reeeeally don't think so. Sorry. I think you would keep fighting, losing almost 1 million would be more angst to me than the fight to save it.

[Instant Karma]

I don't understand how she would gain from making this all up? She isn't looking for money or hand outs, just some good wishes? I agree, these are very emotional posts, but I think I would be a nutcase too if something like this happened to me.