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View Full Version : Waredaca Unrecognized Nov. 4th, Who's Going?



AshKnoll
Oct. 31, 2007, 08:33 PM
I will be there bright and early for the Novice division. My dressage time is at 7:54, yikes. Plus I have about an hour and a half drive up. Oh well, at least I will be done early.

Anyone else going? I always love to meet fellow BB members.

leawoodfarm
Oct. 31, 2007, 08:41 PM
I'm going for my guy's first Beginner Novice (at least with me). My dressage isn't until 12, so you probably won't still be around. I am lucky as I don't have to be there early and I am only 5 minutes away! I have friends riding Novice also. It should be a great event. If you are still around, say hi. I'll be on the pinto pictured in my profile:). Good Luck!!

~Heather

eventertblover
Oct. 31, 2007, 08:53 PM
I'll be there!
my new boys first event! so were going elementary!
i think my dressage is at 1 something.
haha. doubt youll be around.
good luck everyone!
i'll be on a bay, named "sloppy joe"

Meredith Clark
Oct. 31, 2007, 09:51 PM
This is my first HT since I broke my back!

I'm doing Elem and I have some sweet times... I heart sleeping late :)

pharmgirl
Oct. 31, 2007, 09:59 PM
I will be grooming for mythical and my new guy. She's taking him in BNHB for me :). As usual, just look for the giant appy with no tail :D.

Congrats on your return Meredith! Looking forward to seeing you cross the finish line on your new guy.

Meredith Clark
Oct. 31, 2007, 10:24 PM
Thanks! ... and Mythical told me he has a tail extension that he wears for shows!!

scubed
Nov. 1, 2007, 07:42 AM
will miss you guys, but will be at Virginia. Only in area II is there Plantation unrecognized on Saturday, Waredaca unrecognized on Sunday and Virginia recognized running through the weekend, and as I understand, all quite full.

pharmgirl
Nov. 1, 2007, 08:44 AM
Mere- yes, he did come with a tail extension (I handed over my check, they handed me his fly sheet and tail :lol:). I'm not sure if we will actually get the extension in for the show or not. I worry that putting it in will damage what little tail he does have, and when discussing putting the tail in for Sunday, the BO last night said "Aww, but it's part of his character!"

We still need a bunch of volunteers! Anyone who competes and brings a buddy to volunteer gets a free xc schooling pass :).

mythical84
Nov. 1, 2007, 08:45 AM
Yup, I'll be there on the big spotted Moosetracks! I had a really good ride on him last night, so I'm excited. I don't ride til noonish, so I'm sure I'll be volunteering prior.

If you're not riding, or if you are and have a friend that's coming, please consider volunteering!

FrittSkritt
Nov. 1, 2007, 10:43 AM
Wish I was, but my entry wasn't accepted (sent it in the last minute and they were full by then :().

ILoveMyScummyWhiteHorse
Nov. 1, 2007, 10:56 AM
I'll be there! My first ride time is at 11:52 and we're doing BN. I'll be on a white horse named Alatar. I haven't evented for a little while, but we got some schooling in over the summer so we'll see how this goes. :winkgrin: Actually "MeredithClark" and I will be there together. Hope to meet lotsa people there!

gr8fulrider
Nov. 1, 2007, 12:36 PM
The Buglet ("With Sprinkles") is going to her first Novice with my trainer. I was originally going to, but won't be able to go. I hope the pictures come out well. So proud of my pony. :)

AshKnoll
Nov. 1, 2007, 05:49 PM
Sounds like many of you got better times than me, however that means I will get home early enough for afternoon nap, right? I figure I have to leave absolutely no later than 5:30am :eek: I just keep telling myself with the clocks being set back it will actually be 6:30am. So if anyone is there early, please come up and say hi. I will be riding the mare pictured in my profile.

Westlaw, it looks like your mare is first to go in our division, so your trainer's ride times are even worse than mine.

Good luck to everyone, and here's hoping it isn't too cold in the morning.

Carolyn

Dr. Doolittle
Nov. 1, 2007, 06:36 PM
Poor Jumper63!! :eek:

(I am "barely conscious" and zombiie-like at that hour myself :p, and it seems like I have had MANY ungodly early times this year...:()

In any case, good luck to you!!!

I'll be doing the Training Championships there the day before (and we have to walk both courses before we ride, then do ALL 3 phases within one hour--should be *interesting*! At least my times aren't early!!! :D)

Fingers crossed that Catty goes double clear in both jumping phases (which I'm sure she will), and has a relaxed dressage test ;)

Good luck to everyone competing, and we want a full report :)

justhanginon
Nov. 1, 2007, 07:04 PM
I'll be there driving my daughter and her pony. Her times are soooo civilized, maybe I can make her stay at Beginner Novice forever so we don't get those early am times ! She has a cute little (actually not so little) buckskin pony, say hi if you see us. She'll be the calm one having a blast, I'll be the one having a nervous breakdown -you would think I would get better at these things !

Picasso
Nov. 1, 2007, 09:55 PM
I'll be there! And my times are such I'll actually get to see my daughter ride! YAY!

pooh
Nov. 1, 2007, 10:51 PM
I'll be there butterflys and all!! This will be our second run at BN ( first time went well at Jenny Camp but way to slow) I'll be on my friends horse - Bryce - I'll be in blue and yellow. Just pulled my times Dresage at 10:08 and stadium at 12:10, XC 12:30. So I can't complain about the times, ground won't be frosty, etc.

leawoodfarm
Nov. 2, 2007, 11:38 AM
Hey everyone,

I was wondering if any of you are braiding. I know its unrecognized and all so most probably aren't but I was thinking I might since I have late times and it wil look pretty in case there's a photographer who gets some good pics (since I dont have any professional pics of my boy yet). So what do you all think? And if I do braid, can I keep them in for all 3 phases ( I read somewhere about taking them out for cross country) - Im new to this whole thing so I want to do things correctly.Thanks in advance! :D

pharmgirl
Nov. 2, 2007, 11:50 AM
Well, since Moose really doesn't have much to braid (he literally has NO forelock) he will not be braided.

When I competed a mare that did have enough hair, I would braid her though. I took her braids out for stadium and xc, but I did see some people who left them in. If you do that, I recommend taking out a couple at the end near the withers so you still have something to grab if needed while jumping.

You will see some braided and some not, so either won't stick out.

leawoodfarm
Nov. 2, 2007, 02:01 PM
Thanks pharmgirl! I think I will try to braid and if it comes out looking good ill leave it and if not ill take them out. I am certainly no pro at the braiding thing. Maybe I will see you there since I am doing BNHB. I know I will definitely be able to spot you, I think your boy is a bit hard to miss. Good luck!

Meredith Clark
Nov. 4, 2007, 12:33 AM
Well its 12:30 now and i've been throwing up since 7am this morning. Looks like i might be sitting this one out. Luckily my ride times arn't til late so I still have a chance of waking up and feeling ok. I wish I could blame nerves but i'm actually taking a horse who is ready and will take care of me!!!!

I just don't think i'm destined to show :(

pharmgirl
Nov. 4, 2007, 08:23 AM
Bummer Meredith! :no: Hope you were able to get some rest and hope to see you out there this afternoon!

Eventer55
Nov. 4, 2007, 09:27 AM
Hey you guys, I went to Wardeca to pick someone up and bring them home. She was one of I think 4 people to get eliminated for carrying a whip in dressage. This seems like a lot of people, so I'm wondering did you not know and did your instructors not know?

My little friend who got eliminated does not read the rule book, nor does her mother and her instructor was not there. What a frustrating thing to get the big E for. She has a great horse and probably would have done well.:no:

I arrived just as she entered the ring. . . too late to help.

OneDaySoon
Nov. 4, 2007, 10:22 AM
Hey you guys, I went to Wardeca to pick someone up and bring them home. She was one of I think 4 people to get eliminated for carrying a whip in dressage. This seems like a lot of people, so I'm wondering did you not know and did your instructors not know?

My little friend who got eliminated does not read the rule book, nor does her mother and her instructor was not there. What a frustrating thing to get the big E for. She has a great horse and probably would have done well.:no:

I arrived just as she entered the ring. . . too late to help.

The Rule Book states that a Steward should be provided to check for whips and any competitor carrying an illegal whip will be eliminated.

Unfortunately none of the Stewards were informed about the whip rule and only checked for bits. Although it is a competitor's responsibility to know the rules, it seems that providing informed Stewards and following the recommendations of the rule book particularily as this was a Championship, should have been taken more seriously in the Ground Jury's decision. I have heard, for example, that some Ground Jury's assess points where there is an imperfect situation.

I was also eliminated and none of my well informed eventing friends and same volunteers in the dressage area said anything as I trotted around the warm-up area and into the arena with my dressage whip - and unfortunately my coach was away. Ironically I asked a TD at an event about this very Rule two weeks earlier and was told that whips are permitted from Novice through Prelim - neither of us thought to ask or mention the exceptions to every Rule.

I feel terrible for the Junior riders who most unfortunately learned this at an event which would have been a highlight of their hard work and competition year - and feel certain that had the stewards been informed that this sad situation would not have arisen, and amateurs and juniors alike would have learned a valuable Rule prior to their dressage warm up and avoided being eliminated.

I am also betting that had the Championship not been impacted by weather and all resources and volunteers been stretched to the max to pull off this rescheduled event, that this oversight would probably not have happened.

...but I am spending the rest of the week reading. :cry:

polarbear
Nov. 4, 2007, 05:48 PM
As one of the dressage stewards for the unrecognized HT today at Waredaca, I feel pretty sure that eliminations for illegal whips DID NOT occur today at the unrecognized event..
The only elimination I saw was a very cute and competent little rider and a plucky pony who had a communication problem and jumped out of the ring..

One Day Soon, I was wondering if you could say exactly what the whip problem was? Whip too long? Whips not allowed in a championship??

Eventer55
Nov. 4, 2007, 05:52 PM
The eliminations were for the championships. My friend did not jump out of the ring. Very sad as this young rider is moving on and won't be eventing again.:no:

Eventer55
Nov. 4, 2007, 06:01 PM
Well, this is your day. The elim was for a whip in the ring at a championship event.

p.s. I can't seem to edit so I posted again.

polarbear
Nov. 4, 2007, 06:02 PM
Whip too long..Or not allowed..??
Wondering who actually eliminated the competitor, the dressage judge??
I've been to recognized events where whips are checked, and some where they are not..

It is true that volunteers WERE stretched mmmiiiggghhty thin this weekend..And I can imagine how disappointing the experience was..

Janet
Nov. 4, 2007, 06:04 PM
The Rule Book states that a Steward should be provided to check for whips and any competitor carrying an illegal whip will be eliminated.
The rule book says that

A steward should be appointed to inspect whips and spurs before any Test. He has the authority to refuse permission for any competitor to start whose whip or spurs contravene this Article.

That refers to whips that are too long, and are illegal for warming up, as well as illegal in the ring.

While it is nice when the stewards remind riders about equipment that is legal for warm up but not legal for the ring (not just whips in championships, but running martingales, boots and bandages, etc.), that is not the stewards primary responsibility.

Eventer55
Nov. 4, 2007, 06:07 PM
I don't have a rule book, but my friend was eliminated for a whip in the ring at a championship event. The whip was a legal length in fact no one measured it, they just told her to read the rule book and that it was not legal at a CE.

polarbear
Nov. 4, 2007, 06:17 PM
Janet, your post seems to indicate that the whip was too long?..Eventer55 (?) that there was to be no whip at a championship?..

And we expect volunteers to be up to speed on all these changing rules?...

Yikes

retreadeventer
Nov. 4, 2007, 06:17 PM
It is a competitor's responsibility to know that they are competing in a championship and not just another horse trial, and that they cannot carry whips in a championship dressage test. We expect a higher standard of horses and riders who are the tops in the region, competing to find out who is the best at the level. We should not complain but learn, and train toward the day when you don't need a whip at all to school your horse in dressage but only seat and leg. I too am working toward that goal. I feel sorry for the folks eliminated but at the same time I see the point in this rule and feel it's appropriate. A championship should not be dumbed down to just another horse trial. Otherwise it would lose it's meaning. JMHO.

retreadeventer
Nov. 4, 2007, 06:23 PM
I do not believe this is a new or changed rule. Only a few years ago we could not carry whips in dressage in horse trials at all. The only exception to the championship no whip rule is competitors side saddle who are permitted to carry a whip in dressage.
And volunteer stewards, once again, do not have the responsibility to tell the competitor (in a championship) to drop the whip prior to entering at A -- only to tell the rider if the whip they are carrying is legal for warmup or competition.

Eventer55
Nov. 4, 2007, 06:24 PM
Just to clarify, I was extremely annoyed at the rider as this was her chance to put something really great in her resume. She did not read the rule book and I told her she should have. Responsibility falls to the rider. :yes:

Xctrygirl
Nov. 4, 2007, 06:30 PM
Ok so its a stupid question but Eventer55, did you know whips were illegal? And if so why didn't you help her??

Westlaw... how did the buglet do with Amy??

~Emily

Eventer55
Nov. 4, 2007, 06:45 PM
Not a stupid question, I arrived in the parking lot just in time to see her enter the dressage ring. I didn't find her until she had untacked and the discussion about whips was in full swing.

And yes I did know whips were illegal because there was a discussion on COTH last year. I'm not competing, but I keep up on everything with COTH:winkgrin::winkgrin::winkgrin: I will be competing next year. . . hopefully.

OneDaySoon
Nov. 4, 2007, 06:53 PM
The rule book says that


That refers to whips that are too long, and are illegal for warming up, as well as illegal in the ring.

While it is nice when the stewards remind riders about equipment that is legal for warm up but not legal for the ring (not just whips in championships, but running martingales, boots and bandages, etc.), that is not the stewards primary responsibility.

Janet - I am confused. If a steward "should be appointed to inspect whips and spurs", what is their primary responsibility? ...report us immediately to the TD...and then what happens next if we hadn't entered the ring yet?

In response to someone else's question, I believe in all cases, after we finished our dressage test, the judge stepped out of her car and said something like "I am not sure if your whip is legal for a championship, so I am going to make a note on your test". I believe the matter was then turned over to the TD and Ground Jury for decision making and I believe the volunteers explained to the TD that they had forgotten to check whips (and spurs).

Anyway, this is one rule I won't be forgetting any time soon, however there are plenty of them and sometimes they are confusing...and this is why we so often ask Janet for her expert advice on these matters. In fact while this was happening yesterday many well informed folks were saying it was only at the FEI level - so for those of us new to competing at the championship level there was added confusion and disappointment.

It is an unhappy result for everyone, because I know the volunteers at this event would never want to see any of us eliminated - they just didn't know and hadn't been given a briefing beforehand by the dressage steward....still as everyone has said, it is our job to know the Rules.

AshKnoll
Nov. 4, 2007, 07:09 PM
Well my day started ok, and then went further and further downhill. My dressage test was a little tense as usual, she gets nice and relaxed in the warm-up, but once we get over to the ring she tenses up again. We ended up right in the middle of the pack after dressage, then it went downhill from there. She was very spooky in the show-jumping warm-up area on the side with the bbq grill, and all of the generators, as in she didn't won't to go anywhere near that side for most of my warm-up. Then in show-jumping she wasn't paying attention at all on the way to fence 3 and had a stupid refusal, her mind seemed to be elsewhere, but we finished up ok.

Then onto cross-country, she was wiggly to the first, per usual, but went over then jumped 2-4 confidently. For the drop I tried to get her attention, but it still caught her by surprise, as she was staring at the jump judges, so we get a refusal. On re approach she goes down but tentatively, then she stops at the next one, not sure why, but by this time I am disbelief, that is not at all like this mare. She jumps it the 2nd time, then gets over 7 ok, then onto the ditch, another stop there, however she jumps it tentatively on the 2nd approach. Makes it over 9 ok, then stops at 10 as she was staring off at a different jump. Then another stop at fence 11, the narrow skinny log as she was staring off at people around the jump. 2nd try she gets over, so of course I am waiting for someone to tell me I am eliminated, it happens at jump 12 the drop, which she also wouldn't go down. So we walk back not having made it down the drop, with me thinking what the heck is wrong with her.

Granted this mare is always somewhat distracted, but today it was just awful, it definitely got the best of us. I couldn't figure out what I could do to get her attention, I was doing everything I knew, but nothing was working. The worst part is we probably won't have another event until April, so what a crappy way to end the season. Very frustrating as I can't figure out what happened. Before today she had never had any jumping penalties at Novice, granted that was last year before a long lay off this year, but when we went BN a few weeks ago she was great. So I am left thinking, what happened with her today? Anyway, I guess I have something to work on this winter.

Even though I didn't have a good day I want to thank all of the volunteers today, especially being there in the cold of this morning.

Side note, not having sour grapes, but a curiosity question. Did anyone else feel the Novice cross-country or any other level course for that matter was tougher than an introduction to that level horse trial as was stated in the event description? I was trying to think back and this was my 5th Novice event in the past year and a half and felt it was definitely one of the more difficult ones I have encountered.

kt-rose
Nov. 4, 2007, 07:18 PM
I thought the organizers and volunteers did a great job today at the unrecgonized. Cheerful, helpful and I bet a lot of them had put in tons of time over the past couple of weeks. SO THANK YOU ALL OF YOU!!!!

I will also say that I was stunned by one 'trainer' who LOWERED the schooling jumps for her student -- making them not much use for the folks who were actually about to go in the ring -- I would have thought her student could jump the X until she felt ok to move on. The ring steward asked her to put them back and she gave him a really hard time. Then she set them incorrectly and when he asked her to fix them she gave him an even harder time. As I told her (yeah, I was a b***h!!!) I really think that if you have anything to say other than thank you to the volunteers out there, and this ring steward was doing an excellent job today, you just need to keep your mouth shut -- the world does not revolve around anyone of us and being considerate of the other competitors and the volunteers should be a heck of lot higher on the list than it was for this woman.

Ok, sorry, rant over but that really bugged me...

Xctrygirl
Nov. 4, 2007, 07:35 PM
Not a stupid question, I arrived in the parking lot just in time to see her enter the dressage ring. I didn't find her until she had untacked and the discussion about whips was in full swing.

And yes I did know whips were illegal because there was a discussion on COTH last year. I'm not competing, but I keep up on everything with COTH:winkgrin::winkgrin::winkgrin: I will be competing next year. . . hopefully.

Ok cool. I had a tough time deciding to ask... glad you added the smilies. I didn't mean to offend.

Great that she at least learned. Too bad it was the hard way.

~Emily

leawoodfarm
Nov. 4, 2007, 07:56 PM
I also had a tough day. Of course my guy is only 4 and its only my second HT with him, but that fence three in stadium was a killer. My guy is not scared of the jumps but everything outside of the ring and that fence was pointed right toward the judges stand and there was NO WAY he was going onear there. I am pretty sure he never even saw the fence, just that big scary booth:eek:. It was so frustrating because I just wanted to jump and at least try to do cross country. It stinks that because of one fence, I only got to jump 2 fences all day and didn't get a shot to try to get over any of the cross country fences.

On the note of difficulty - I walked the course with friends doing Novice and they were VERY surprised at the difficulty of the course, especially for a fall *unrecognized* HT. I also thought that my Beginner Novice xcountry was difficult, but I will never know if it actually was or not :mad: . But the day was very nice, the volunteers were great and helpful. I am going to try to do one more before winter and maybe back down to elementary again, even though the height of the fences wasn't an issue.

eventertblover
Nov. 4, 2007, 08:13 PM
YESYES!
today was my boys first horse trail!!
he tried SOSOSOSOSO hard for me.
we competed elementry young rider.
we got 8th.
we weould have gotten 3rd, but poor pony thought monsters were going to jump out at 2 of the jumps on the cross country course.


if any of you want to give me your number if you were in begginer novice, or elementry my dad was there taking photos, hes a profession photographer and took tons, so let me know your number and a brief description of your horse and ill see if we have any of you.

Janet
Nov. 4, 2007, 08:20 PM
Janet - I am confused. If a steward "should be appointed to inspect whips and spurs", what is their primary responsibility? ...report us immediately to the TD...and then what happens next if we hadn't entered the ring yet? The steward is supposed to check to see if the bit, whips and spurs are legal.

Normally, if the whip is too long, or the spurs are too long, the steward tells the rider, and the rider relinquishes them. If there is a question about whether or not a specific whip or spur is legal, the TD is consulted (I have seen that happen with the plastic roller spurs).

I suppose that, if the rider inisted on using an illegal whip for schooliing, after being told not to, he/she could be eliminated, but I have never seen that happen.

But once you enter the arena, it is up to the judge, and not the steward's responsibility.

Since the (legal length) whip IS legal for warming up, there is no reason for the steward to do anything.

I agree that it WOULD be helpful for the steward to remind people in the championship to drop the whip before going into the ring.

However, normally, the Training Championships are run at the same time as the regular Training division. So the warm up stewards would not know which riders were going in the Training Championships, and which were going the regular division.

Janet
Nov. 4, 2007, 08:27 PM
Janet, your post seems to indicate that the whip was too long?..Eventer55 (?) that there was to be no whip at a championship?..

And we expect volunteers to be up to speed on all these changing rules?...

Yikes To clarify, I am saying that it is the steward's responsibility to check whether the whip is legal length. It is not the steward's responosibility to tell the people in the championship not to take the whip into the ring.

In this case, it seems that people were eliminnated for taking a whip into the ring in a championship.

Meredith Clark
Nov. 4, 2007, 08:44 PM
What was this a championship for? When i signed up I thought it was just another unrec. HT. given.. i didn't get to ride because I was sick so it doesn't really matter.

I did get to go watch though and I couldn't beleive how many horses refused that stone wall in stadium. I also got yelled at on x-country for cheering "Go Manda Go! Gallop, Gallop!"
I was told this is unauthorized assistance and if I said it again she'd be E!!! ... i guess that volunteer was a lil stressed out.

pooh
Nov. 4, 2007, 08:49 PM
I went BN rider today, and ended up 3rd. To me the xc course seemed straight forward especially compared to Jenny Camp the other weekend, or the pipe opener at Full Moon. The layout was pretty level except the hill up to 2 and down after 3, then the either around or over the hill at 11. My biggest issue was when I came into the large filed with all the jumps and my horse wanted to jump any of the bigger ones - not the "little" one according to him!!! If any one watched the stadium - I'm the idiot that counted out lound to every jump!!!! Only way to keep me one pace.
I'm curious about what was happening at stadium jump 3 in the BNYR - besides going towards the judge - there were alot of refusals at it.

Thank you to all the volunteers - you guys were great today - very polite and helpful!!

Dr. Doolittle
Nov. 4, 2007, 09:11 PM
Well my day started ok, and then went further and further downhill. My dressage test was a little tense as usual, she gets nice and relaxed in the warm-up, but once we get over to the ring she tenses up again. We ended up right in the middle of the pack after dressage, then it went downhill from there. She was very spooky in the show-jumping warm-up area on the side with the bbq grill, and all of the generators, as in she didn't won't to go anywhere near that side for most of my warm-up. Then in show-jumping she wasn't paying attention at all on the way to fence 3 and had a stupid refusal, her mind seemed to be elsewhere, but we finished up ok.

Then onto cross-country, she was wiggly to the first, per usual, but went over then jumped 2-4 confidently. For the drop I tried to get her attention, but it still caught her by surprise, as she was staring at the jump judges, so we get a refusal. On re approach she goes down but tentatively, then she stops at the next one, not sure why, but by this time I am disbelief, that is not at all like this mare. She jumps it the 2nd time, then gets over 7 ok, then onto the ditch, another stop there, however she jumps it tentatively on the 2nd approach. Makes it over 9 ok, then stops at 10 as she was staring off at a different jump. Then another stop at fence 11, the narrow skinny log as she was staring off at people around the jump. 2nd try she gets over, so of course I am waiting for someone to tell me I am eliminated, it happens at jump 12 the drop, which she also wouldn't go down. So we walk back not having made it down the drop, with me thinking what the heck is wrong with her.

Granted this mare is always somewhat distracted, but today it was just awful, it definitely got the best of us. I couldn't figure out what I could do to get her attention, I was doing everything I knew, but nothing was working. The worst part is we probably won't have another event until April, so what a crappy way to end the season. Very frustrating as I can't figure out what happened. Before today she had never had any jumping penalties at Novice, granted that was last year before a long lay off this year, but when we went BN a few weeks ago she was great. So I am left thinking, what happened with her today? Anyway, I guess I have something to work on this winter.

Even though I didn't have a good day I want to thank all of the volunteers today, especially being there in the cold of this morning.

Side note, not having sour grapes, but a curiosity question. Did anyone else feel the Novice cross-country or any other level course for that matter was tougher than an introduction to that level horse trial as was stated in the event description? I was trying to think back and this was my 5th Novice event in the past year and a half and felt it was definitely one of the more difficult ones I have encountered.

Bummer, Jumper63! :( Sorry to hear about your day (but you know what they say about mares: "if you want to ride a different horse every day, buy a mare"...:p)

I'm sure that if you get some X-country schoolings under her belt over the next 6 months or so, you will have her back on track for next year :) She *has* had a lot of time off (which is not always the best thing for mares...:lol:)

And yes, I agree with your assesment of the course; I looked at some of the Novice fences when I was walking the Championship course yesterday, and IMO, some of them were rather big (and challenging) for the level--especially considering this was an unrecognized event!

(Yes, the volunteers were ALL great there, and even took down a branch that had "blown or sagged down" from a tree, and as a result, was directly in the path of riders/horses on the approach to a skinny on the T Ch course...this was at my husband's suggestion; he had been walking the course behind me, videotaping--and since he's 6'4"--he notices these things! :p It was gone by the time I rode, so they must have been paying attention to the details--kudos! :D)

Hang in there, Jumper63--with your talented (yet somewhat "difficult") mare, these things take time...ask me how I know! :lol:

Janet
Nov. 4, 2007, 09:18 PM
What was this a championship for? When i signed up I thought it was just another unrec. HT. given.. i didn't get to ride because I was sick so it doesn't really matter.

I did get to go watch though and I couldn't beleive how many horses refused that stone wall in stadium. I also got yelled at on x-country for cheering "Go Manda Go! Gallop, Gallop!"
I was told this is unauthorized assistance and if I said it again she'd be E!!! ... i guess that volunteer was a lil stressed out.
Last weekend, at the recognized HT at Waredaca, they had to cancel the entire Training Division, including the Training Championships. The Training Championships were, with the agreeement of the USEA and USEF, rescheduled to run this weekend, in conjunction with the unreconized HT.

Dr. Doolittle
Nov. 4, 2007, 09:26 PM
What was this a championship for? When i signed up I thought it was just another unrec. HT. given.. i didn't get to ride because I was sick so it doesn't really matter.

I did get to go watch though and I couldn't beleive how many horses refused that stone wall in stadium. I also got yelled at on x-country for cheering "Go Manda Go! Gallop, Gallop!"
I was told this is unauthorized assistance and if I said it again she'd be E!!! ... i guess that volunteer was a lil stressed out.


Meredith--the Training Championships were held yesterday (postponed from last Saturday--thanks SO much Waredaca! ;) Though they really "pushed us through"; I was finished with all 3 phases within 50 minutes! :eek:)

Anyway, at all "Championships", the rule is "no whips allowed"--though I DID check with the steward/bit checker to make SURE I was allowed to warm up with one--then gave it to my helper before entering the ring ;)

As for the unauthorized assistance you refer to, the TD at Waredaca was actually "giving a gentle lecture to" someone yesterday for the very same thing--in this case, it was a competitor's mom; apparently she had been yelling something to her daughter (while said daughter was on course)--I believe the encouragement part is okay, but anything that can be construed as "instruction" (speed, direction, etc.) is considered unauthorized assistance...

I'm sure Janet will weigh in here again, since she is the true authority! ;)

Dr. Doolittle
Nov. 4, 2007, 09:29 PM
Sorry Janet--apparently we cross-posted! :p

Meredith Clark
Nov. 4, 2007, 09:54 PM
As for the unauthorized assistance you refer to, the TD at Waredaca was actually "giving a gentle lecture to" someone yesterday for the very same thing--in this case, it was a competitor's mom; apparently she had been yelling something to her daughter (while said daughter was on course)--I believe the encouragement part is okay, but anything that can be construed as "instruction" (speed, direction, etc.) is considered unauthorized assistance...

I'm sure Janet will weigh in here again, since she is the true authority! ;)


I understand that... I just thought it was a bit harsh since she was going to fence 1 and I was at the top of the hill (there's no way she heard me!), and I wasn't telling her what jump to go to or what aids to use... but I guess if it had been a problem with other people really giving directions while people were on course she may have been really on top of it, or looking to make an example of me to nip it in the bud. I WISH I had some great insight to shout to someone on course that would make them ride better... but I don't! :)

Janet
Nov. 4, 2007, 10:22 PM
I think that it is the "gallop, gallop" part which would/could be construed as assistance, telling her to go faster.

As a general rule, it is better to wait unlil AFTER the horse clears the fence before you "cheer", just to avoid misinterpretation.

Lori B
Nov. 4, 2007, 10:30 PM
Dumb question, but ....

Anybody see much of elementary horse, division B? The hony I just started leasing was taken for his first outing in a looong time, and I'm very curious how he did. I think I'll hear all about it tomorrow evening, but am comically curious and impatient...

Danny is a 14'3" bay gelding with a stripe and a comically short tail, sturdy, cute, and ridden by a teenage girl. Any sightings?

Meredith Clark
Nov. 4, 2007, 11:01 PM
... so if its true that I could have gotten my friend elimiated for shouting at her while on x-country, what happens if random people are shouting at you? What if I went out and started "coaching" (aka shouting stuff at people as they went by) other people in my division to get them E-ed? Obviously this is a random question but I just wasn't sure how they specified this. People always cluck and shout stuff at big events.

and why can't you use a whip in a championship but you can in other HTs?

i'm very confused!

inquisitive
Nov. 5, 2007, 07:46 AM
Could someone give me a run-down of the N course? I had to scratch b/c I sprained my ankle but was so looking forward to it... :mad:

OneDaySoon
Nov. 5, 2007, 08:24 AM
Dr. Doolittle - I wonder if we met on Saturday? I loved the whole day despite my ignorant TE - the SJ and XC courses were great and I loved the extra challenging courses. I also loved the fast schedule - worked out so well. I made a deal with my horse that if he took down more than one rail in SJ that we were doing the key-hole jump :eek: no matter what - so that is one more jump type under our belts.

Janet - thank you for explaining everthing so well and I see what you mean if both a Championship and non-Championship division were being run.

Incidentally, I was 2nd in the ring and after I came out and told the stewards about my whip issue, I think they made adjustments with their remaining whip, spur, bit checks.

Toomanycats
Nov. 5, 2007, 08:32 AM
I, too, wanted to thank the volunteers on Sunday, everyone was so friendly and seemed happy to be there. My girl ran her first training (it was my first training, too) and we had a blast and ended up 4th. I thought the training course was quite fair, even though we did have a stop at the 2nd water. She's never jumped anything that big into water before (my bad for not schooling her more), but she happily hopped in on our second try once she took a look and figured it out. For my horse, that was a tough question, but I certainly wouldn't say that it was unfair for that level. The rest of the course rode great for us. Last year, we rode the BN course there in the fall and I did notice that this year's BN seemed beefier, and from what I saw of the novice course, I was wishing I had run it at some point this year because it was a good solid novice. IMO, the courses seemed fair for an end of the season event.

The key to riding fence 3 in stadium, as my friend so accurately pointed out to me when walking the course (thank you!) was to jump it at a left to right angle. If you jumped the middle of it, it gave the impression to the horses that they were jumping into the judge's stand. My guess is the people who had stops there jumped the center of the fence. As my horse has a strong left drift naturally, I just had to leave her alone and she took the line I wanted and made my job much easier :D

Dr. Doolittle
Nov. 5, 2007, 08:58 AM
OneDaySoon--bummer about the whip! :(

It is an odd rule, but one that can *really* bite you in the a$$ if you fail to adhere to it; I was at the AECs in 2005 and 2006, and they actually had a big SIGN posted on the secretary's house (where you got all your info, picked up packets, etc.; IOW, *everyone* had to walk right by this sign...) It read "Whips not allowed in the ring at Championships" (or words to that effect.) Even so, there were several people eliminated for carrying their whips into the ring! :eek:

(I don't know whether or not that makes you feel any better, but you are "not alone"...;))

I remember the many years of NOT being allowed to use whips in eventing dressage at all, and dropping my whip (after warming up with it) before I entered the ring...

I lost a good many whips that way! :lol:

Maybe I did see you on Saturday?? I was talking with bambam after the event, but didn't see any other COTHers (whom I knew, anyway ;))

So you jumped the keyhole? So did I, mostly because I looked at my watch right before the mandatory flags, and realized that I was running short on time :p; my mare did it willingly (got *big* praise for it :)), and it helped me shave off a goodly number of seconds--my "helpers" out on course told me that very few riders actually did the keyhole option, including Lesley Law (he must have been good on time, had a green horse, etc...) He was the eventual winner of our division (what a shocker! :D), but I wound up third, and was very pleased with my girl. (Who would have been second, but went ""WTF?" at the wavy rails over the Liverpool on stadium, and dropped her hind end as she went over it--it was weird, because she WAY cleared it in front, but I think she was trying to "look at it while in the air" or something...:p)

If your horse had a rail, which one was it? The skinny was coming down quite a bit, I noticed.

(If you saw me, I am short and blonde, with a trace-clipped chestnut mare, and was with an "entourage" consisting of my tall, mustachioed graying Italian husband, blonde 13 year old daughter, gray and white Whippet, intrepid "Girl Friday" AspireToJumpHigher, her friend Mark--a tall, skinny guy with glasses, one of my other students, who is 6 months pregnant, her JRT and cocker, HER friend with a one year old son...Whew! :p It was quite a crew, but what with the ride times so close together, the help I go was *much* appreciated!)

mythical84
Nov. 5, 2007, 09:00 AM
Thanks to everyone who volunteered both this weekend and last. It's amazing how many people it takes to make one of these things work.

Moosetracks was on his best behavior, as in nothing bothers him. If you let him, he'll just fall asleep ringside. It's very cute, and I'm so happy Pharmgirl found this guy. I just love him. :)

Dressage was a case of BIG green horse in SMALL dressage ring. But we got through, and it was a marked improvement over his test at the short course. So there's definate room for improvement.

In stadium I established a strong forward stride early, and he cruised around until the last combo. He tapped the rails on the first jump and got a little rattled and then ran out at the 2nd. But I was happy with how unphased he was about everything. After a bit of spooking in our "scenic" opening circle :), he didn't spook at any of the jumps except #3, but a little whack got him over that.

Cross-country was another case of green-horse syndrome. We had one "I don't know what the hell happened" run-out at #4 the barns, and the 5-6 combo caught him by suprise once again. I eliminated myself by repeating fence 5 to get to 6, but he finished up just fine. This horse has a good future ahead of him. :)

Janet
Nov. 5, 2007, 09:39 AM
... so if its true that I could have gotten my friend elimiated for shouting at her while on x-country, what happens if random people are shouting at you? What if I went out and started "coaching" (aka shouting stuff at people as they went by) other people in my division to get them E-ed? Obviously this is a random question but I just wasn't sure how they specified this. People always cluck and shout stuff at big events.
That is why it is "at the discretion of the ground jury".

But I know of at least one case where a rider was eliminated for unauthorized assistance from an official (she was about to miss the finish flags and the timer gestured at her). Her parent ALSO gestured at her and may have said something, but the GJ agreed that, even without her parent's assistance, it would have been E.


and why can't you use a whip in a championship but you can in other HTs?
History and compromise.

"Whips in dressage" used to be forbidden at all levels of Eventing.

In "straight dressage", whips are permitted EXCEPT at Championships - for as long as I can remember.

When the proposed rule change to permit whips in eventign dressage was introduced, it was VERY controversial.

There were LOTS of people opposed to it (including coaches and upper level riders). The gist of it was "If you are not effective enough with your legs and spur to keep a horse "forward" in dressage without a whip, you have no business out on cross country."

One of the major arguments in favor of the rule change had to do with less skilled riders wearing spurs before they were really "good enough" for spurs, because whips were not permitted. The idea was that it was better to have the less skilled rider in the dressage ring with a whip than with spurs.

The compromise that was reached, and led to approval (grudging in some cases) of the rule change was to permit whips, EXCEPT for championships. The rationale was
a- It is consistent with the dressage rules
b- By the time someone has qualiied for a championship - even at the BN level - they should be a good enough rider to use spurs properly.

justhanginon
Nov. 5, 2007, 09:57 AM
Thanks to all at Waredaca yesterday. Great volunteers, the stadium warm up ring was the least chaotic I have seen, the guy running the gate did a great job. My daughter and pony had their best day ever. One stadium penalty but decent dressage and FINALLY clean cross country. I agree with whoever said that #3 in stadium was quite an issue, weird and lots of refusals, I do think the judges' trailer could be mistaken for a horse eating monster of some sort. The pony has figured out that cross country is fun. Thanks to the jump judges/people at the water that cheered her on after they made it through - really made her smile.They finished 3rd and on cloud nine, great way to end the season. Hey eventertblover - I think I met your Dad (I also think he knows a friend of mine, another Pony Club Mom?) my daughter was #114 and I believe he might have gotten some shots of her XC - which I didn't because I was a nervous wreck !

asterix
Nov. 5, 2007, 10:02 AM
I will also say that I was stunned by one 'trainer' who LOWERED the schooling jumps for her student -- making them not much use for the folks who were actually about to go in the ring -- I would have thought her student could jump the X until she felt ok to move on. The ring steward asked her to put them back and she gave him a really hard time. Then she set them incorrectly and when he asked her to fix them she gave him an even harder time. As I told her (yeah, I was a b***h!!!) I really think that if you have anything to say other than thank you to the volunteers out there, and this ring steward was doing an excellent job today, you just need to keep your mouth shut -- the world does not revolve around anyone of us and being considerate of the other competitors and the volunteers should be a heck of lot higher on the list than it was for this woman.

OH, KT, you are my HEROINE!!! The ring steward was my husband, and I was phase chair, and showed up on my regular "rounds" just in time to hear the tail end of this exchange...and to hear you piping up to say "If you can't just thank him for his time, don't say anything at all"
:D

She actually said to him "there is no rule that i have to put them back the way they were" :eek:

um, no, but there is also no rule that we have to give up our Sunday so that YOUR riders can have a fun day. He was in that ring without so much as a portapotty break from 8:45-4:30! Anyway, for the record, this person was the ONLY person either one of us encountered all day long who was anything less than friendly, gracious, and appreciative.

so thanks to all of you for being such good competitors.

I did not even see the unrec xc courses, so can't comment on their difficulty. Fence 3 in unrec SJ -- to be honest with you, the biggest problem was the dreaded "wall" -- that is a spooky jump, no matter where we put it. It was part of the first jump for recognized, and got lots of peeks there (mostly resulting in icky jumps, not stops). Where fence 3 was, we had a rolltop for recognized -- that is a VERY spooky jump that we try not to use for unrec (I was going to use it just for Training, but then decided just to bail on it entirely so we had less moving around to do on the tightly scheduled day of...it's really heavy and hard to move, and all my jump crew were tiny, although enthusiastic, munchkins)...
Fence 3 caused fewer problems in the rec. HT than it did in unrec -- but the wall pretty much takes a toll no matter where we put it.

I was also scribing the day before for the T champs (and it was very hard for them to pull together ANOTHER full set of volunteers on no notice for a 4th event in two weeks, so...). OneDaySoon, you must have been in the other ring -- we had mostly juniors -- our first "whip" rider was headed down center line before either of us saw the whip (my judge gives TONS of comments and I hardly saw anyone all day :lol:). The judge was VERY chagrined and would have told the rider ahead of time if she'd seen her...but once she was not able to do that, she couldn't do it for the next rider we saw with a whip (who we did see ahead of time).

It is a major bummer no doubt, but, I have to say, this was the Training champs -- so competitors are not new to eventing -- and while it is NOT intuitive to have a different rule for champs [and it's also an issue at AECs, of course] than for regular competition, it is not, as Janet said, the volunteers' job to keep track of it. The same is true, for example, for boots. I HAVE reminded people, when I worked as dressage steward, that their horses were still wearing boots while they finished their warmup. But I did it just out of courtesy -- it's not the steward's job, and I have seen people eliminated for forgetting. So it would have been great if the stewards reminded you on Saturday, but it was NOT their job -- and as Janet pointed out, there is NO WAY they would have done it the week before, as they would have had no way to figure out who of all the riders in warm up were riding in the champs division.

Please don't blame the volunteers -- it is thankless work to stand out there on a cold day so that other people can compete!

bambam
Nov. 5, 2007, 10:47 AM
about the unauthorized assistance- the person getting a talking to on Saturday did more than yell "go" or "gallop" and came very close to getting her daughter eliminated
and yes, you can get other random people eliminated if you go out and shout instructions that they do not want- I suppose that is one way to improve your placing ;)

snickerdoodle
Nov. 5, 2007, 11:00 AM
i was the person in SJ warm up who got a talking to by the steward. :eek:

i voulunteer ALL the time, in the cold, heat, rain, snow, with no break all day. i feel that is what i can give back to the sport i enjoy. so far this year, i have volunteered at Rubicon Spring HT both days, all day; Surefire HT both days, all day; and Morven Park Advanced HT and CCI* endurance day, all day. yesteday i helped change the SJ course for the Elementary divisions.

never have a talked to a competitor or a trainer in such a manor as i was spoken to yesterday. i was SJ steward at Surefire HT this past summer. The jumps heights were changed numerous times for the different division. I never felt i had to give anyone a talking to.

When volunteering any issues that has come up I have directed it to the TD and let them make the call.

i merely didn't understand why i couldn't change the jump heights? whether bigger or smaller.

Janet
Nov. 5, 2007, 11:11 AM
i merely didn't understand why i couldn't change the jump heights? whether bigger or smaller. There is no rule against lowering the jumps. But. if you do, it is just common courtesy to raise them back up when you are done.

There IS a rule about raising the jumps. It is against the rules to raise the warm up fences more than 10 cm (4 inches) above the competition height for that level.

asterix
Nov. 5, 2007, 11:13 AM
sd, thanks so much for helping with the changeover, that was much appreciated!

We set the jump heights in warmup for the range found in the ring. While recognized events allow them to be set 4 inches above the height in the ring, we do NOT allow them to be higher for unrecognized events -- these riders are just trying the next level up! To set them lower means that riders are warming up over smaller fences than they will see in the ring. So we set them exactly like the fences in the competition ring, and leave them there.

If you need to lower a fence briefly to help a rider, that's ok if it's ok with all the other folks warming up (who may be counting on that fence being the "right" height as they finish their own warmup), but it needs to be reset to the correct height as soon as possible.
I am sorry, but that is NOT the ring steward's job. He has to manage the in gate, so that we did not get an unsafe number of riders in the ring, and he has to manage the flow of riders up to the ring. Technically, stewards do not even have to put back up rails that riders drop -- I have had to get off and reset my own fence on more than one occasion -- although of course most of the time either the steward or another helpful person on foot will do that job.

I promise you that the day would have been longer, and more chaotic, if every trainer had reset jumps, and then just left the ring.

I am sorry that this exchange upset you. We want everyone to have safe and happy rides, and at an unrecognized horse trial, it is a lot of work to keep everyone on track!

snickerdoodle
Nov. 5, 2007, 11:28 AM
A,

i didn't know that was the case. sorry for the misunderstanding. It was not explained to me in that manner. i guess i just took the tone of your husband to be abrasive.

he did do a great job keeping the horses in warmup to a minimum. :)

but i did get another warning from him when i went to help someone in the elementary divison that i was NOT TO touch the jumps in warmup.

HelenC
Nov. 5, 2007, 11:32 AM
Yesterday's show was pretty wild! Lots of loose horses and a couple of pretty dramatic falls on XC in the elementary division. I had 9 students competing. 3 of them finished in the ribbons at 1, 2, 4 in EYRA. Even though the others didn't finish in the ribbons they still had a great time.

Asterix your husband was a great stadium warm-up ring steward! I spoke with him a lot while trying to organize my kids. I missed the fence raising exchange but you wouldn't have known it had happened b/c he was so pleasant.

The XC course was more difficult compared to the spring unrec. All of mine were in Elementary except for 1 who was in BNYR. I rode N in the spring unrec and walked the Fall course and there was a difference. For fall there was a ditch (none in spring) and two drops (there was an up bank for spring). I think having a more difficult fall show isn't necessarily a bad idea. A lot of shows seem to have easier courses in the spring and more difficult ones in the fall.

All in all it was a great show and we can't wait to do it again. Thanks again to the volunteers...it was cooolllldddd yesterday!

bambam
Nov. 5, 2007, 11:37 AM
SD- I cannot speak to the tone or specific words used in the exchange and whether they were appropriate but I do agree that it is common courtesy to put the fences back after you have adjusted them and would have no problem with a steward asking me or anyone else who lowered them to do so. Not the steward's job and too many other people are involved and needing those jumps to just leave them there at the wrong height.
It also sounds like you lowered all the fences in warm up (?) If you did, I think that that made life a bit too hard on the other competitors. If your rider is having trouble with the height of the division, it is perfectly appropriate to lower one to help them get past that, but all of them? And then not put them back? Means nobody can get warmed up properly. Maybe I am misunderstanding what happened, and if so, please ignore me (most people do anyway :D)

snickerdoodle
Nov. 5, 2007, 11:42 AM
bambam,

i didn't lower all the jumps in warm-up and i did put the jump back up that i lowered.

i didn't feel i was asked, i felt like i was ordered. it had already been a long day and maybe i was tired.

kt-rose
Nov. 5, 2007, 12:05 PM
OK, I am going to continue to be a b***h here. SD lowered both the vertical and the oxer and they were down at the same time, she did not touch the X. Someone else put the vertical back up for us -- after asking the steward politely. When SD put the oxer back up, she put only the back rail to the correct height, and was confrontational and rude to the steward when he asked her to fix it. As I heard every word of the exchange between the steward and SD, I am confident that while 'Thank you' was pretty much all she should have said yesterday, 'I'm sorry' is about all that would be appropriate today! There is no excuse for being rude to the volunteers, even if you volunteer yourself.

Asterix, your husband did an awesome job keeping the schooling safe and useful and was kind and cheerful in the process. Please thank him for me!

asterix
Nov. 5, 2007, 12:13 PM
ok, ok, guys, let's not fight about this, ok! That upsets me!!! I am VERY sorry if mr. asterix was snippy about it (and I came in only on the tail end so can't say), but he was in the right, tone aside.

I have worked this horse trial in stadium for several years, and I know that, particularly as the levels go down, the anxiety level goes up for many competitors. This is a big deal for them! So we try hard to make sure things are "just right" -- I have had riders really have melt downs if the fences are an inch too high, no joke. SO I had asked him to be very careful that the fences were built correctly, and he took that to heart (perhaps a bit forcefully, and if so, I do apologize). The oxer needed to be ascending but not too gappy, and that's how we built it, and how it needed to stay.
I realize it seems like nitpicking but I want to minimize the stress for all those riders!

So, we were all out there trying to have a good day -- trainers and volunteers alike! We were probably all tired and cranky as the afternoon went on, and I am sorry it wasn't without bumps. I hope you'll come back, and I hope you will see the ring steward's more charming side next time!

bornfreenowexpensive
Nov. 5, 2007, 12:23 PM
cold...winter...end of the day...people get snippy. I was at Plantation HT on Sat. We were one of the early ones and it was down right COLD. The jump steward had told me I could go in after so and so. I went warmed up, and when I saw so and so in the ring, walked up to the gate ready to go in. At which time another rider already there asked to go in next since she had another horse to ride....I could see the stress in the poor stewards eyes when she looked at me (I think ready for someone to be snippy). I smiled and said that was fine and just kept my horse walking....it would have been fine by me who ever had been asking to go ahead....but since it was my trainer and her other horse that she had to ride was one of mine....it was more then fine;)

It is a stressful job and we as competitors need to do what it takes to make it less stressful....even when cranky and tired.

Mustang51
Nov. 5, 2007, 12:36 PM
Considering all the stress in stadium I must say thanks to all the ER riders who were so patient waiting for their xc go. With all the holds, things really started piling up at the end in xc warmup, and we were really unsure if we could finish before dark. (especially after that grey pony bucked its rider off)

But every time I had to tell a rider 'that, well, there are at least 10 more in front of you' hardly anyone complained- despite having just rushed down from stadium. And everyone got quiet and listened carfully when I would shout out the list of remaining riders!
So, really I think things went as smoothly as they could at the end of the day considering the situation! And everyone was content to go in the printed order of go... can't say everyone is always that amenable.

justhanginon
Nov. 5, 2007, 12:36 PM
asterix - Am I recalling correctly ? Wasn't your husband the one that TOOK THE SHIRT OFF OF HIS BACK to give a competitor without sleeves inthe spring ?

mythical84
Nov. 5, 2007, 12:45 PM
asterix - Am I recalling correctly ? Wasn't your husband the one that TOOK THE SHIRT OFF OF HIS BACK to give a competitor without sleeves inthe spring ?

Yup ... that's him. :)

asterix
Nov. 5, 2007, 12:47 PM
er, yup :lol:
I was thrilled that he remained fully clothed this time :D
That was his first time doing XC warmup, and he is a stickler for the rules (which he had just learned) -- you can't go sleeveless, and when a competitor said she didn't have time to go back to the trailer and change, he gave her his shirt. It was cold and rainy that day, too!

OK, off to ride my ponies -- hopefully all will be well here when I return...

Mustang, thanks for keeping everyone ok over there in XC. We didn't realize in SJ that you all were backed up until really late in the game, so we kept hustling people over, afraid of losing the light!

snickerdoodle
Nov. 5, 2007, 01:30 PM
the rider i was helping needed to jump the smaller vertical one more time before I put it up but didn't have a chance because the young man came over and put it up. i would have put it back up for her and everyone else after she had jumped it one more time. the steward had already asked me to do so, which i said i would.

i did put the ascending oxer back up to the height (i did not change the width) were i thought i had lowered it from. apparently the steward did not think so.

eventertblover
Nov. 5, 2007, 03:03 PM
Dumb question, but ....

Anybody see much of elementary horse, division B? The hony I just started leasing was taken for his first outing in a looong time, and I'm very curious how he did. I think I'll hear all about it tomorrow evening, but am comically curious and impatient...

Danny is a 14'3" bay gelding with a stripe and a comically short tail, sturdy, cute, and ridden by a teenage girl. Any sightings?

yesyes!
haha i was riding in that group!
she was at the cross country warm up with me.
he sure is a cutie.

Picasso
Nov. 5, 2007, 05:24 PM
It was a good day for me (I got 4th), not so good for my little one and the wonder pony who got their first big E at what else? Dreaded fence 3! The Stone Wall! She did approach it all wrong (straight on, right into the judges booth). She left the ring crying, so unlike her. She wasn't upset because she was eliminated, the poor kid was mad at herself because she knew what she did wrong 2 seconds too late, and couldn't figure out how to fix it. I felt horrible for her! I also wanted to scream "she is 9, give her a break!" but that wouldn't have been very becoming of me! I was actually surprised at the stop, normally the pony just GOES. That tells you how tough that jump really was!

AshKnoll
Nov. 5, 2007, 06:37 PM
Could someone give me a run-down of the N course? I had to scratch b/c I sprained my ankle but was so looking forward to it... :mad:

I am going to assume you mean the cross country course. It started over a curved lattice gate jump (hard to describe), then up the hill to one of the steeplechase jumps I am assuming was used for the Training 3 Day last week, then fence 3 was a bigger ramp on a downhill slope. Then it was onto the back field where there was a roll top, then about 10 strides to approx. a 3' drop down, then about 15 strides to a house type thing, a fairly short rollback to another house type thing. Next was a right hand turn to a fairly big ditch, then onto a coop in the fence line. Fence 10 was a house thing next to the lake, and then you rode on the road around the lake to a narrow biggish log in the tree line shared with Training that had a slight drop. Next was another drop, approx 3' then about 3 strides to the water. After the water it was a right turn to logs in the tree line, turn left go for a bit and jump back through the tree line over a bench, then gallop downhill, and then back up to finish over a largish ramp. Sorry my descriptions aren't great, as I stated before I didn't make it past the 2nd drop, so the last fences are just what I got from the walk.

Very interesting that fence 3 in stadium caused so many issues, however I can't say it was due to the judges stand as my mare was staring out of the ring at I assume everything below us.

As for the Novice cross-country course, I assumed, I guess in-correctly that when they stated an introductory horse trial for that level, that it would be geared to people who had been doing BN during the fall and wanted to get in one smaller Novice before the season ended. I also questioned it as it has been awhile since my last Novice, and I wanted to make sure I wasn't becoming a wussy in thinking it looked bigger. At least now I know I need to work on drops and ditches so more, and more importantly on keeping my mares attention.

Anyway very interesting to hear other observations of the event, and I agree all of the volunteers were extremely nice and helpful, thanks again.

inquisitive
Nov. 5, 2007, 06:46 PM
Thanks Jumper63! I'll check out photos once they're up but if anyone has other photos (usually the pro only gets one or two jumps) please let me know :)

OneDaySoon
Nov. 5, 2007, 07:44 PM
OneDaySoon--bummer about the whip! :(

It is an odd rule, but one that can *really* bite you in the a$$ if you fail to adhere to it; I was at the AECs in 2005 and 2006, and they actually had a big SIGN posted on the secretary's house (where you got all your info, picked up packets, etc.; IOW, *everyone* had to walk right by this sign...) It read "Whips not allowed in the ring at Championships" (or words to that effect.) Even so, there were several people eliminated for carrying their whips into the ring! :eek:

(I don't know whether or not that makes you feel any better, but you are "not alone"...;))

I remember the many years of NOT being allowed to use whips in eventing dressage at all, and dropping my whip (after warming up with it) before I entered the ring...

I lost a good many whips that way! :lol:

Maybe I did see you on Saturday?? I was talking with bambam after the event, but didn't see any other COTHers (whom I knew, anyway ;))

So you jumped the keyhole? So did I, mostly because I looked at my watch right before the mandatory flags, and realized that I was running short on time :p; my mare did it willingly (got *big* praise for it :)), and it helped me shave off a goodly number of seconds--my "helpers" out on course told me that very few riders actually did the keyhole option, including Lesley Law (he must have been good on time, had a green horse, etc...) He was the eventual winner of our division (what a shocker! :D), but I wound up third, and was very pleased with my girl. (Who would have been second, but went ""WTF?" at the wavy rails over the Liverpool on stadium, and dropped her hind end as she went over it--it was weird, because she WAY cleared it in front, but I think she was trying to "look at it while in the air" or something...:p)

If your horse had a rail, which one was it? The skinny was coming down quite a bit, I noticed.

(If you saw me, I am short and blonde, with a trace-clipped chestnut mare, and was with an "entourage" consisting of my tall, mustachioed graying Italian husband, blonde 13 year old daughter, gray and white Whippet, intrepid "Girl Friday" AspireToJumpHigher, her friend Mark--a tall, skinny guy with glasses, one of my other students, who is 6 months pregnant, her JRT and cocker, HER friend with a one year old son...Whew! :p It was quite a crew, but what with the ride times so close together, the help I go was *much* appreciated!)

Dr. D. this is absolutely fantastic that you came third - it was a really tough division!!!! Big Congrats!

Well if it weren't for the SUPER DUMB TE, I would have been 7th after dressage and 7th for final place. I have no idea which rails I took down as it was seemed like we were hitting everything!

I just keep wondering what other Rules I don't know which are going to bite me in the A$$?????

It would have been great to have met you and BamBam - so many posts, so few meetings! Maybe next year?

Folks have weighed in on why whips are not allowed, and I wanted to mention that this was only the 2nd time I had used a whip in dressage in 20 competitions. The first time was 2 weeks ago when we did our first Prelim event and prior to entering the ring I asked to TD-in-Training if whips were allowed at Prelim and she said "whips are allowed from Novice to Prelim"....so I thought that was the case and never questioned that there might be exceptions. Anyway, I have a very, mild mannered WB that goes to sleep as soon as we go past the little white fence...and he isn't exactly Hot off the Leg. He is however, a very good boy on XC - hence the lack of whip going through the keyhole or anywhere else on XC. The only thing that actually woke him up all day was the fake geese after the water - that was a bit of shocker! I thought he was in Dream Zone...WRONG!

I don't blame the volunteers for anything - they have had a really, really tough Gig for a few weeks in a row and I am the first to admit that I haven't been there to help out. And as I mentioned earlier, I know that all of them that watched me trot around with whip in hand prior to entering the ring would have swiftly told me the ruling had we all been a bit more up to speed.

Does anyone know who the photographer was? I saw a women walking around with a camera on Saturday and hoped she might post photos somewhere. If I could get one nice big photo with me and my illegal whip it would really make my year :D.

Dr. Doolittle
Nov. 5, 2007, 11:36 PM
Dr. D. this is absolutely fantastic that you came third - it was a really tough division!!!! Big Congrats!

Well if it weren't for the SUPER DUMB TE, I would have been 7th after dressage and 7th for final place. I have no idea which rails I took down as it was seemed like we were hitting everything!

I just keep wondering what other Rules I don't know which are going to bite me in the A$$?????

It would have been great to have met you and BamBam - so many posts, so few meetings! Maybe next year?

Folks have weighed in on why whips are not allowed, and I wanted to mention that this was only the 2nd time I had used a whip in dressage in 20 competitions. The first time was 2 weeks ago when we did our first Prelim event and prior to entering the ring I asked to TD-in-Training if whips were allowed at Prelim and she said "whips are allowed from Novice to Prelim"....so I thought that was the case and never questioned that there might be exceptions. Anyway, I have a very, mild mannered WB that goes to sleep as soon as we go past the little white fence...and he isn't exactly Hot off the Leg. He is however, a very good boy on XC - hence the lack of whip going through the keyhole or anywhere else on XC. The only thing that actually woke him up all day was the fake geese after the water - that was a bit of shocker! I thought he was in Dream Zone...WRONG!

I don't blame the volunteers for anything - they have had a really, really tough Gig for a few weeks in a row and I am the first to admit that I haven't been there to help out. And as I mentioned earlier, I know that all of them that watched me trot around with whip in hand prior to entering the ring would have swiftly told me the ruling had we all been a bit more up to speed.

Does anyone know who the photographer was? I saw a women walking around with a camera on Saturday and hoped she might post photos somewhere. If I could get one nice big photo with me and my illegal whip it would really make my year :D.

Thanks! :) I was very proud of my mare, since that "hurry-up" kind of scheduling tends to rattle her, but she kept her head in the game the whole time :D

That's kind of ironic that you rarely even carry a whip (or haven't much in recent years), only to wind up with a TE for carrying one into the ring for the Championships! :sigh:
(You are allowed to warm up with one, which is probably why no one said anything to you; I warmed up with one, and saw several others doing the same...)

And yes, we should all be SO grateful to the volunteers for even making it possible for us to compete! :yes: Thank you, Thanks you! :)

As for a photographer--we can only wish! My feeling was that no pro photographer would want to "sign on for the gig" considering the small number of participants--especially compared to shooting a full day HT (or other competition), which would be *so* much more worth their while! (However, if you do hear that there was one--please let us know!)

And as for the whip thing, you know what they say: "You will never make *that* particular mistake again" :D

Maybe we will get a chance to meet in person next year, unless you are going to Rubicon (which reminds me--must resurrect the Rubicon thread! :)

pharmgirl
Nov. 6, 2007, 08:27 AM
Looks like pictures from Sunday are up. http://www.photoreflect.com/pr3/store.aspx?p=23676

Anyone following the giant appaloosa, sj pics are on page 5 of the 2:30-3:35 BN group, and through the water xc on page three of the BN xc group. Mythical- you guys look fabulous cantering through the water! He has a look on his face that just says to me like he's searching for the next fence. I think he truly was having fun by then :).

Mythical did a great job with my boy, and while there were some greenie issues these are definitely easy to work on IMO and I thought it went so well!

Here are a couple that I took on Sunday:
http://tinyurl.com/258v9z
http://tinyurl.com/23gjhg
http://tinyurl.com/ys3d5n

Something we did notice as we all watched him go- when he jumps he sticks his tail straight up in the air! As if that tail didn't get enough attention!

OneDaySoon- bummer about the whip! I was out judging xc and saw you guys go. You looked great, and it sounded like you went clean xc so imagine my surprise when I saw the TE next to your name in dressage! Sorry we were all so stretched thin that day that no one could warn you.

asterix
Nov. 6, 2007, 09:15 AM
pharmgirl, your guy was UBERcute in stadium -- he was very willing and forward and totally "got it" -- the last line you could see things just happened a bit fast for his brain.

ODS, the keyhole was a TOUGH fence -- we have used it most years at the T3D and the Tchamps, but in my opinion it was in a much tougher spot this year. Hardly anyone attempted it at the T3d this year and of those who did I think 50% cleared it on their first attempt. So congrats!!!!

Dr. D, I saw your stadium round, and it was very well ridden and she looked fabulous -- just had a "what?" moment at the liverpool (almost like by the time she decided she had an issue with it, she was already launched...)
Congratulations!!

Dr. Doolittle
Nov. 6, 2007, 09:37 AM
Thanks, asterix! :D

Yes, she was definitely going "Huh?!?" at the Liverpool, but as you say--she was in the air too soon to do anything about it (she's honest, and will pretty much trust me and jump whatever I point her at; the rare times she has a "moment of hesitation", I just put my leg oin and she goes...of course as a result of her willingness, there have been a few times when she has *wanted* a better look, not stopped, but instead has bunched her hindquarters, hesitated at the base, and taken a powerful leap to clear said scary obstacle...which is kinda hard on this old woman's back! :lol:)

The highlight of the day for me was putting her through that keyhole :) there was no hesitation whatsoever, and the only similar obstacle she had seen (and jumped) previous to that was during schooling at Surefire: the skinny Prelim white log between two trees (with a curved "U" of brush on top), which she jumped in spite of her ??? :confused: on approach :D Albeit, she left "plenty of room" underneath herself; she hasn't yet learned to "brush through the brush" :lol:

In any case *very* proud of the girl, and grateful just to have the chance to compete! :yes:

justhanginon
Nov. 6, 2007, 09:38 AM
pharmgirl -
I met you by the stadium warmup (we were discussing the spotted saddle pad) your guy is too cute! I tried to watch him go but it seemed like my daughter was always moving to her next ride when he was going, so I only saw a little of his stadium.By the way, you take some very nice pictures.

Mustang51
Nov. 6, 2007, 10:10 AM
then up the hill to one of the steeplechase jumps I am assuming was used for the Training 3 Day last week,

For the record, they cut down the brush on that jump so that it was NOT training height.
Overall from what I saw of it I think the courses looked to be solid unrec. courses, but still softer than a recognized course.

Re: the keyhole. It is very narrow for training. I don't know what the minimum width is for T, but it must be pretty close.
But I figured if I think I'm going to move up to Prelim soon, then I'd better be able to jump it! I thought in the T3d, that the road crossing set it up nicely, but maybe most did not find that to be the case. I don't know how its setup was on the T-Ch course, but I did see a lot of refusals there, so it may have been a harder line.

Janet
Nov. 6, 2007, 10:42 AM
Re: the keyhole. It is very narrow for training. I don't know what the minimum width is for T, but it must be pretty close.
The rules do not have a minuimum face for cross country fences (in show jumping the minimum is 5'11" )

pharmgirl
Nov. 6, 2007, 11:17 AM
Thanks asterix! I hope you all weren't laughing too hard at his flagpole tail! :D He's just so quiet and willing, it's those combinations that definitely remind us how young and inexperienced he really is. Dressage and gridwork will become our closest friends (or enemies, depending on how you look at it ;)) this winter.

Thanks again to mythical for taking good care of my boy- I just saw your post earlier with the play-by-play. I think he had fun, and I'm glad you like him.

Yes, justhanginon I remember you! It's amazing how many people remember that saddle pad. (reminds me I need to contact the owner about sending that to me). Thanks re: the pictures. I really enjoy taking pictures (a hobby I definitely got from my father, who takes fabulous shots).

leawoodfarm- it was nice to meet you all. That is one handsome horse you have. Sorry it didn't go so well for you, but he's only 4 right? There definitely was some serious carnage on Sunday, and I think lots of us thought it was tough for an unrec.

leawoodfarm
Nov. 6, 2007, 03:22 PM
Pharmgirl, It was also nice meeeting you, even though it wasn't really a formal introduction. You were talking to my mom and I didn't really know it was you, but thought it was afterward because you were talking about the app. Man he is a big cute boy and I think he is going to be an awesome eventer - good choice on that guy, I think you will have a blast with him (he is so level headed). Thanks for the compliment on my guy. He is only 4 so it was okay, I was just dissapointed because I wanted to at least have shot to try the cross country but oh well, there is always the spring. We are going to take him to Full Moon for the pipe opener and the horse trial and do elementary. we only made it over those 2 jumps in stadium, but the photographer got both of them. Here is one that I like. http://www.photoreflect.com/pr3/OrderPage.aspx?pi=08JQ010K040141&po=141 . Congrats to everyone!!

OneDaySoon
Nov. 6, 2007, 06:17 PM
Pharmgirl, It was also nice meeeting you, even though it wasn't really a formal introduction. You were talking to my mom and I didn't really know it was you, but thought it was afterward because you were talking about the app. Man he is a big cute boy and I think he is going to be an awesome eventer - good choice on that guy, I think you will have a blast with him (he is so level headed). Thanks for the compliment on my guy. He is only 4 so it was okay, I was just dissapointed because I wanted to at least have shot to try the cross country but oh well, there is always the spring. We are going to take him to Full Moon for the pipe opener and the horse trial and do elementary. we only made it over those 2 jumps in stadium, but the photographer got both of them. Here is one that I like. http://www.photoreflect.com/pr3/OrderPage.aspx?pi=08JQ010K040141&po=141 . Congrats to everyone!!

Hey Leawoood Farm - I think I saw you and your Mom over at Schooley Mill a few weeks back. Isn't your guy an Art Deco gelding...I was there with a similarily colored paint. I absolutely love your horse and you guys are going to make a lovely team. I mentioned to your Mom about the great instructors at Waredaca, so sounds like you are one step closer. You will love FMF Pipe Opener as well.

PharmGirl - thanks for your comments on our XC and the TE issue - it was an awesome course and we loved it. Whereabouts were you? Also looks like Mythical did a really good job with Moose's first tracks - the photos show excellent form all around.

Asterix - if you saw BamBam's SJ round you must have seen my hootering and hollering round trying to convince Fritz to pick up his feet. I hope everyone tried to be amused ;). He was as close to deep REM sleep as he could be - I think the only reason we got thru the key hole was because he was just too darn lazy to fight with me!

Dr. Doolittle
Nov. 6, 2007, 06:33 PM
Hey Leawoood Farm - I think I saw you and your Mom over at Schooley Mill a few weeks back. Isn't your guy an Art Deco gelding...I was there with a similarily colored paint. I absolutely love your horse and you guys are going to make a lovely team. I mentioned to your Mom about the great instructors at Waredaca, so sounds like you are one step closer. You will love FMF Pipe Opener as well.

PharmGirl - thanks for your comments on our XC and the TE issue - it was an awesome course and we loved it. Whereabouts were you? Also looks like Mythical did a really good job with Moose's first tracks - the photos show excellent form all around.

Asterix - if you saw BamBam's SJ round you must have seen my hootering and hollering round trying to convince Fritz to pick up his feet. I hope everyone tried to be amused ;). He was as close to deep REM sleep as he could be - I think the only reason we got thru the key hole was because he was just too darn lazy to fight with me!

Leawoodfarm--IS your gelding by Art Deco?? If so, than our horses are related; my mare is by him! :)

leawoodfarm
Nov. 6, 2007, 09:27 PM
OneDaySoon - Yes, that definitely was us at schooley mill. We had the matching greenies that day. You're boy is a little bigger than mine, but still very similar and I think you said that was your first time trying him over the outside course (in a dressage saddle no less) and what a good boy he was.

Dr.D - my guy is actually by Spectrum but his dam sire is Art Deco. So yes, they are related. I actually took our weanling to the Oldenburg inspection at Silverwood this year and was able to see all the stallions, including Spectrum and the old man Art Deco who still looks pretty good. My guys dam was named Art Deco's Jewel. I really love my guy and he has a super laid back personality, which is exactly what I need. Do you have any pics of your mare? I would love to see some!

Dr. Doolittle
Nov. 6, 2007, 10:13 PM
leawoodfarm--too cool! :)

If you pm me with your e-mail address, I can send you some pix via e-mail (alas, I don't have "pix posting privileges"...)

Laid-back my mare is NOT (:lol: "Alpha Mare to the max" :p), but she is incredibly sweet and willing...your boy is *quite* attractive (from the pic I saw), and sounds like he will be quite a good eventer! :yes:

OneDaySoon
Nov. 6, 2007, 10:20 PM
OneDaySoon - Yes, that definitely was us at schooley mill. We had the matching greenies that day. You're boy is a little bigger than mine, but still very similar and I think you said that was your first time trying him over the outside course (in a dressage saddle no less) and what a good boy he was.

Oh Boy, I have been outed for the second time this week! ...caught schooling XC in a dressage saddle while carrying an illegal whip - who knows what hell might pass next?!!!

We should take those two greenie paints to FMF and do the course as a pair...although my husband-horse isn't half as nice as your guy, he sure likes to take the lead like he's pulling a beer wagon or something ;)!...the horse that is. :D

pharmgirl
Nov. 7, 2007, 08:00 AM
Oh Boy, I have been outed for the second time this week! ...caught schooling XC in a dressage saddle while carrying an illegal whip - who knows what hell might pass next?!!!

OneDaySoon- it goes back to that marketing plan we were talking about, right? It's all about the right marketing/PR. ;) :lol:

I was judging at the rolltop/bank complex (#s 3 and 4, I believe). I was busy judging, shooting pics (which were awful b/c of where I had to be to judge and where the sun was), and dealing with the radio/score sheets.

Leawoodfarm- Yeah, I guess we were never formally introduced- I figured your mom would fill you in. You were discussing things with dressage warmup and I didn't want to interrupt anything just to say Hi. Nice pictures of your boy! Hope you two have fun up at Full Moon. That's a great place to get some mileage.

pharmgirl
Nov. 7, 2007, 08:17 PM
Lori B- I forgot to mention earlier that I remember seeing your new lease! I didn't see much of them, but I remember seeing him leave the start box b/c of that tail (I think I actually wondered if he was also used for driving). Very cute!

OneDaySoon
Nov. 7, 2007, 08:51 PM
OneDaySoon- it goes back to that marketing plan we were talking about, right? It's all about the right marketing/PR. ;) :lol:

I was judging at the rolltop/bank complex (#s 3 and 4, I believe). I was busy judging, shooting pics (which were awful b/c of where I had to be to judge and where the sun was), and dealing with the radio/score sheets.


:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

Ok, any photos you can share?

pharmgirl
Nov. 8, 2007, 08:03 AM
I do have a few, but I must warn you that they are basically shadows of people! The positioning of the jumps, where the sun was that time of day, and where I had to be to jump judge made for some awful pictures! It's so bad, I'm not entirely sure who is who!