Sticky barn situation [Archive]

UnhappyAlter

Oct. 29, 2007, 11:56 AM

This past weekend, when I was at the barn, I had a credit card with me (in my pocket) as well as some cash, because I was expecting to be buying something there after a barn halloween activity. In the to and fro of the day, I seem to have set it down or dropped it, and didn't notice - very dumb, have never lost a card before.

This morning, I got a call from the card issuer that there had been suspicious activity on the card, which in this case was a $500+ purchase at a local tack shop. I was floored, cancelled the card & ordered a new one, didn't get charged, all taken care of.

Then I called the tack shop to follow up.

The person who 'found' my credit card tried to order boots and britches, claiming it was 'her mother's' credit card. Fortunately for the store and for me, the items weren't in stock and had to be ordered, and when the charge was questioned by the card issuer, the person re-stated their story about "mom's credit card", 'acted fishy' (in the words of the tack shop owner), took the card, and scampered off.

But not without leaving her name and cell phone number, so that the shop could call her when the goods came in. (order since cancelled)

I was shocked. The person works at my barn, is a newish working student. She has actually helped me with the horse I ride. I kinda like her, and praised her to her boss and others for how helpful and skilled she is. And now I'm totally sick to my stomach.

I feel stupid for misplacing the credit card, which is not something I normally do. But I am more appalled that this person was so willing to steal, and now I think there's no way I shouldn't tell the barn manager.

I know that many folks have experienced theft where they ride, but until now I had never had anything go missing more serious than a sweat scraper or hoof pick. Ugh.

jetandmegs4

Oct. 29, 2007, 12:01 PM

I would be furious, and definately do tell the barn manager. She really thought you wouldn't find out? Leaving her name at the tack shop was asking to be found.

Lmabernathy

Oct. 29, 2007, 12:02 PM

DressageGeek "Ribbon Ho"

Oct. 29, 2007, 12:06 PM

Ditto. Stop it now before the kid lands in even deeper trouble.

Blue Yonder

Oct. 29, 2007, 12:06 PM

You've got to be kidding!!! Nice horse acquaintance, eh?

Tell the barn manager AFTER you call the police to report the situation, ASAP - today - NOW! That whole thing just plain ain't legal. Better for the kiddo to learn that lesson sooner rather than later.

As a BO/BM, if I can't trust someone who works for me to do the right, honest thing in life generally-speaking, I certainly don't want to trust him/her with my horses!

JohnDeere

Oct. 29, 2007, 12:08 PM

What ahppened to the cash?

Lucassb

Oct. 29, 2007, 12:09 PM

Absolutely. Police report first, then give a copy to BM.

Ick.

Guin

Oct. 29, 2007, 12:10 PM

POLICE. NOW. IMMEDIATELY. BO next.

cholmberg

Oct. 29, 2007, 12:12 PM

Ditto. Police report now. Give a copy and full explanation to the BO. If I were the BO, I'd want to know if people working for me were less than honest and were so willing to steal.

AppendixQHLover

Oct. 29, 2007, 12:13 PM

File police report now, and do not hestiate this.

Talk to the barn manager/owner after that with a copy of the police report.

CanTango1

Oct. 29, 2007, 12:24 PM

I agree with what was stated... how old is this girl ? Im assuming pretty young. Either that or shes pretty darn stupid !!

P.S- You blew your cover !!!

Wait.... how did you delete that ??? and why when i try to delete I cant ??

Lmabernathy

Oct. 29, 2007, 12:25 PM

when you file the police report (at least in my experience) don't expect anything to happen to the little darling who stole your card. You might can contact the credit card company and they will be able to get something done. Credit card fraud just doesn't seem to be a priority anymore. I would tell the barn manager for this reason, that may be the only punishment the little darling gets.

4Martini

Oct. 29, 2007, 12:31 PM

Just curious how $500 at the local tack shop was triggered as unusual behavior - you do own a horse, don't you :lol::lol::lol:

Seriously - Good Luck.

kellyb

Oct. 29, 2007, 12:39 PM

Invested1

Oct. 29, 2007, 12:44 PM

Just curious how $500 at the local tack shop was triggered as unusual behavior - you do own a horse, don't you :lol::lol::lol:

Seriously - Good Luck.

I thought that exact same thing!!! :lol:

JohnDeere

Oct. 29, 2007, 12:45 PM

Question for Bos--
Do you want someone that brainless working for you? :eek::lol::confused:

walkinthewalk

Oct. 29, 2007, 12:45 PM

I would file the police report first, then tell the BO.

Set her down with the BO and her parents, and give her the lecture of her life.

Whether or not to press charges, is a judgement call on your part -- based on how the girl reacts to getting caught at attempted grand larceny, and whether or not she has tried this trick before.

Good luck:)

Huntertwo

Oct. 29, 2007, 12:49 PM

I'd press charges ASAP...How dare she? :mad:

What she did was against the law.

molliwog

Oct. 29, 2007, 01:01 PM

Wow!!!

I would definitely tell the BM (but not before approaching the girl and/or her parents). I personally would not press charges, but that's just me, I believe she just had a (severe) lapse in judgment. Hopefully just confronting her will be enough of a reality check.

Definitely keep us updated.

Usually by the time kids get around to stealing credit cards, they are past the "severe lapse in judgement" and "reality check" phase. Any kid with 1/10th of a brain knows this is just plain wrong. Why is it that just because someone is young, they should get off easy for something of this magnitude? When I stupidly left my debit card out on top of my tack trunk at a place where I used to board, the 17 y.o. working student who found it called me immediately on my cell phone, told me where she had safely secured the card, and advised me to check on the card, as she didn't know how long it had been sitting out in plain sight. If this young girl doesn't understand that this was the right course of action, how in the world are you going to trust her to care for your horse?

As someone who has been victimized by both credit card fraud and identity theft, I can tell you from firsthand experience that this is NOT something to take lightly. Even though the charges are fraudulent, the incident is now part of your permanent credit record, although in theory it should not impact your credit score. I had to go to a lot of personal expense to address the issue when it happened to me, and fortunately I had the resources to pay for a lawyer to do this. Not everyone does! My guess is that if this young person thinks that this sort of behaviour is acceptable, it's because she has probably learned from someone (parents, perhaps?) that this is okay. It is clearly time for the law to get involved. If nothing happens, the next time she will just make a better plan for theft so she is less likely to get caught.

Call the police first, and then tell the barn owner what you have done. As a BO or BM, I would want to know this (so I could fire her dishonest little kiester immediately!), and expect police action. If the client refused to call the police, I would do it myself. I could never trust someone like this to care for my horses, or my client's horses. If the BO/BM waffles, let them know in no uncertain terms that if this person isn't immediately dismissed, you will be moving your horses TOMORROW!

If you don't take some action, how would you feel if she steals someone's purse from an unlocked car or tack trunk tomorrow and they end up in credit card or identity theft hell because this nasty little creature is still around? The next person that she steals from may not have the resources to absorb the cost of or to repair the damage that she causes.

EponaRoan

Oct. 29, 2007, 01:14 PM

You might can contact the credit card company and they will be able to get something done.

But don't be shocked if they do nothing. Since the charges were disputed and cancelled and she got no merchandise, there really are no damages to the store or the credit card company.

I had a situation last year with a next door neighbor gone bad. He (or one of his druggie buddies) stole one of those damned convenience checks the credit card companies send you out of my mailbox (or possibly it was misdelivered - but I had other bills missing, so I think they ripped it off out of my mailbox). At any rate, he/they wrote one of them out for $2k to him and they tried to cash it at the closest Chase bank just before closing time. Fortunately the Chase people were suspicious, didn't cash it, left a message on my voicemail and I was able to cancel that account. I also changed all my credit card numbers. But the point is that Chase wasn't interested in pursing it, nor was the post office. (Bad neighbor is now gone and spent some time in the pokey for other theft type offenses - and he's no kid at 40-ish.)

I wouldn't bother sitting down with this kid and her parents since you don't know them that well. I would however attempt to make a police report (if they'll take it - they may take it, but not pursue it) and tell the BO/her employer. Maybe get a written statement from the tack shop.

It's not unusual for credit card companies to flag unusual activity. If the OP usually only spends say - $200 at the tack store, then they may look askance at $500. I've had my credit card company call to make sure things are okay if I do something outside my normal pattern.

Valentina_32926

Oct. 29, 2007, 01:43 PM

Call the police or she'll keep doing this sort of thing. Contacting them will help her learn that wrong is wrong and she will be punished.

Roisin

Oct. 29, 2007, 01:59 PM

Picking up a $5 bill off the ground and keeping it when you could ask around and find out who it *really* belongs to - that I could consider a "lapse in judgement". Taking a CC and heading to the tack store - crime. Period. Call the police now while she is a juvenile and she may get some help. Parents and maybe even BO will try to talk you out of it, so I would call police first.

AnotherRound

Oct. 29, 2007, 02:00 PM

Gee, I don't know that I would have used an alter. I would have no problem EVERYONE knowing about this. Make sure you not only tell Police and BO, but the KID, and her parents.

That way she'll know why she lost her job, and, she'll know that the whole barn knows why.

Don't let her get away with keeping this quiet, even if there are no legal ramifications, make sure there are pleanty of social ramifications!

I am looking forward to the OP telling us how she handled this.

Hazelnut

Oct. 29, 2007, 02:02 PM

You need to file a police report and press charges against the little wentch. Not to metion telling the barn owned they are employing a theif. Do you feel safe that your tack and horse are within her reach now?

You do need to do this. Its rare to have a name and address and the tack store owner can probably identify her...Call the cops.

RainyDayRide

Oct. 29, 2007, 02:09 PM

Re the questions about why a tack store purchase would trigger suspicion.... it was most likely the amount - I assume that $500 is a bit beyond the OP's typical spending pattern.

and another vote for report her to police and BO/BM-

Hazelnut

Oct. 29, 2007, 02:12 PM

Many times in credit card theft there is no suspect. Well you've got a suspect and a witness that can identify her. I'm sure both the company and the police will be glad to "investigate" since you've already "got their man.";)

onelanerode

Oct. 29, 2007, 02:14 PM

Another vote for filing a police report and telling the BO/BM. I wouldn't call this a "lapse in judgment" either. It's wrong, not to mention illegal. Depending on the BO/BM's reaction, I might seriously consider looking elsewhere for my horse. I definitely don't want my horse being cared for by someone who doesn't think credit card theft/fraud is a big deal.

strawberry roan

Oct. 29, 2007, 02:14 PM

She is not the person you think she is. Call the police. Now. Git 'er done!

ThePerfectFit

Oct. 29, 2007, 02:21 PM

I agree with everyone else.

This girl not only picked up the credit card, but had the guts to go out and buy $500 worth of stuff in a short period of time. This was not a lapse in judgement but an instinct.

File a police report (even if they dont do anything, you'll scare the crud out of the kid), tell the barn owner/manager. Sit down with the BO/BM, parents, and kid. Pray for the firing of the kid =)

oharabear

Oct. 29, 2007, 02:29 PM

Agreed. Police report.

I am a Fraud Investigator for a major retailer, and I have personally arrested people attempting to use fraudulent credit cards on the spot. In my experience, the police have always been right on top of it, since fraud and identity theft are HUGE problems. In fact, crimes like this are becoming one of the retail industry's biggest areas of shrink. We are beginning to lose more money to fraud than we are to outright theft.

This girl has actually committed two crimes. The theft of the credit card itself, and then presenting the card as payment while knowing it is not her to do so. So you have a theft and fraud charge.

You NEED to get the police involved. At this point, a "conversation" is going to do nothing. She needs to be scared. All of this will be erased when she turnes 18, anyway. Getting her parents involved might not even do anything. I cannot tell you how many times I've arrested kids, and the parents do not seem to even care. Or they get mad at me for arresting poor little precious Junior. Because it's my fault that their kids got caught stealing and are little scumbags.

If SOMETHING doesn't happen to this girl, she is just going to get worse. You are not being the bad guy by getting her in trouble. She got herself in trouble. She needs to learn.

cardicorgi

Oct. 29, 2007, 02:31 PM

Another vote for filing a police report, etc.

This kid needs to feel some consequences for her actions.

BuddyRoo

Oct. 29, 2007, 02:41 PM

Better to scare the crap out of the kid now.....

I'll ditto the police report.

Yes, kids make mistakes. But if there are never consequences, they don't learn lessons from them.

UnhappyAlter

Oct. 29, 2007, 02:46 PM

Not sure I can answer all the interesting and valuable comments and observations.

The person in question I believe is an adult, not a minor. So, not really sure any parental involvement is appropriate.

The person in question didn't take any cash, just the credit card, which I didn't notice was missing until Citibank called me this a.m.

I called the police to file a report, and find that I have to go to the county in which the fraudulent transaction took place. It's not that far away, but can't fit that trip into my day until tomorrow at the earliest.

Citibank is not in any way penalizing me for this - card cancelled, transaction was cancelled by the tack shop, so miraculously no financial damages were sustained, just inconvenience and the distress of feeling like a careless idiot.

I called the BM, who confronted her, and fired her a couple hours ago. When the details were presented to her, she fessed up, and she's gone. She told them that I was welcome to call her, but I can't imagine why it's my job to call her when she should be apologizing to me, at the very freakin' least.

I used an alter because I dread, with every fiber of my being, barn drama, and the thing I mind the most about this is that it is disruptive to the peace and happiness of my barn, which I treasure. (I find it slightly less troubling than someone stressing out my SO / partner.) If you really gotta know, PM me.

And yes, I know I accidentally briefly outed myself, but figured it out (DOH!) in time to delete my post.

It is mind boggling that this woman thought that she was going to be able to have the tack shop order this stuff and actually get it with a fraudulent credit card and her own name and phone # on record. I can't fathom it. My own impression of her was of someone capable if a little brusque. She was riding, as part of her work, the horse I've just started riding and will be half leasing starting next month, and she has been quite helpful to me a couple times -- horse was previously well-schooled but has been out of work a long while and needs to have a bit of a refresher in manners at times, which she has done quite effectively. I thanked and complimented her for her help as she was sitting in her car, about to drive away with my credit card in her pocket on Saturday afternoon. I am not kidding.

Edited to add:
I don't own a horse, but I do shop at tack shops somewhat regularly, for smaller $ amounts than this transaction. I'll bet if she'd spent $100 instead of $500, it wouldn't have triggered an alert.

Part of what I sense about this situation is that perhaps she thinks I'm so affluent that I can afford / wouldn't miss a credit card charge of that size, which annoys me most of all, since I'm one of a small number of non-owners who ride at my barn. Wouldn't I own a horse instead of half lease if I were so flush? Whatever.

ESG

Oct. 29, 2007, 02:47 PM

.............police, CC company, BO/BM, girl, parents - in that order. I agree that parents and BO/BM will probably try to talk you out of the police report, so best present it as a fait accompli`. This young lady needs to know that what she did is illegal as well as immoral, and that crimes have to be paid for. She should lose her job, and be required to make an apology to you. If the BO/BM hesitates for one second in firing her, start looking for a new place to board. And as a BO, I would absolutely want to know immediately if an employee of mine did such a thing.

Edited to add:We were posting at the same time. Glad this is over for you, and that your horse and the BO's business are no longer threatened by this person's presence.

And, really, who wants someone that stupid working for them. Totally aside from the dishonesty, it takes someone very mentally challenged to both steal from someone at her workplace, and leave her own name and contact info to receive the stolen goods. Not exactly a criminal mastermind. :no:

atr

Oct. 29, 2007, 02:48 PM

Yes, call the police, and tell the BO. She knows this is WRONG. If she doesn't know or care, then now would be the time to instill some sense of right and wrong, or at least that there are consequences for her actions.

It isn't as if she stole it to buy groceries or medicine for her sick mother or something--she went to the danged tack store!

BuddyRoo

Oct. 29, 2007, 02:50 PM

PS: Citibank is TERRIFIC about this kind of thing.

I was doing a cross country trip a few years ago and got a call on my cell regarding some "unusual activity" on my account. Well, it was me. But I was driving a truck with two gas tanks--and they were concerned at the $$ charges at gas stations. I'm not sure what software they use..but they do seem to keep a good eye on things!

onelanerode

Oct. 29, 2007, 02:53 PM

The person in question I believe is an adult, not a minor.

Even more reason to bust her butt. :yes:

I called the BM, who confronted her, and fired her a couple hours ago. When the details were presented to her, she fessed up, and she's gone.

Good for the BM!

It is mind boggling that this woman thought that she was going to be able to have the tack shop order this stuff and actually get it with a fraudulent credit card and her own name and phone # on record. I can't fathom it.

A few bricks short of a $h!thouse, isn't she? :rolleyes:

rescuemom

Oct. 29, 2007, 03:09 PM

I'm glad you outed her to your BO. I'm glad your CC company is on the ball. I urge you to file a report with the police, even if inconvenient. I basically mirror the comments of everyone who insisted that this not just slide away.

As a side note, I had a problem a year or so ago. Got a call from Amex asking if my card had been lost or stolen because of some strange charges. (And I love Amex for those calls.) Nope, it was not stolen but inside my wallet. I was puzzled as to how my card could be misused when it hadn't left me, but the Amex rep explained that all that was required was for someone to camera-phone my card as I was presenting it at Starbucks or some place. I don't know if Amex ever nailed the thieves as it wasn't mine to worry about. I hope so since s/he was dumb enough to order a subscription to Vogue as one of the fraudulent charges (which showed up over a few months).

MistyBlue

Oct. 29, 2007, 03:15 PM

Since she's an adult...I'd defiitely take the time out of my schedule and file charges. If not just for stealing your card and trying to use it...but to punish extreme stupidity in her method. :winkgrin:
Seriously though...if she's good with horses and working in barns and can easily give off a great impression of herself...she'll be working in another barn before you know it. And trying the same crap with other boarders. And now that she knows how she got caught...she won;t get caught the same way again. And she WILL try again if you don't press charges...because nothing serious happened to her when she did it this time except losing her job. Just that she wants you to call her shows she's not taking this overly seriously.
So please consider pressing charges...to help protect others as well. Crimes like these will only multiply if all of us don't come down hard on those who we know did them. She definitely sounds like she's more than willing (and now smarter) to do this again.

EponaRoan

Oct. 29, 2007, 03:15 PM

I was doing a cross country trip a few years ago and got a call on my cell regarding some "unusual activity" on my account. Well, it was me. But I was driving a truck with two gas tanks--and they were concerned at the $$ charges at gas stations. I'm not sure what software they use..but they do seem to keep a good eye on things!

Most credit card companies recommend that you call them if you're going to be doing something out of the ordinary. If I'm recalling correctly, a lot of times stolen cards are used to fill up a lot of people's gas tanks so that may have been one of the triggers!

I work retail and one of the clues that someone may be using a stolen card or planning to write a bad check is that they appear to be playing Santa for themselves. Also most (not all) early 20s people are not going to be buying $400 worth of toiletries, baby formula, etc, but it sure sells well at the swap meet ...

MistyBlue

Oct. 29, 2007, 03:17 PM

Nope, it was not stolen but inside my wallet. I was puzzled as to how my card could be misused when it hadn't left me, but the Amex rep explained that all that was required was for someone to camera-phone my card as I was presenting it at Starbucks or some place.

I had heard of that on one of those news shows recently...scared the hell outta me! It's something I probably wouldn't have thought of. Since I saw that on that show....I always present my card upside down now or with my hand over the top. I really prefer those places where you swipe your own card.

UnhappyAlter

Oct. 29, 2007, 03:25 PM

I am going to file a police report, and may call Citibank to tell them what I know, and let them pursue it if they choose to. I just can't do the police report today, because it involves a 45 mile drive into ugly traffic. But I do hear and agree that there need to be consequences to her actions. I am truly sad for her, because she had a good gig and good opportunity at the barn I ride at, and was going to get to ride some nice horses, learn good stuff from the trainers, and she's blown it, and perhaps messed herself up with the law permanently, and it just makes no sense to me. But it's not like she could be confused about this being completely out of control wrong. I don't like setting the law on anyone, but it has to happen.

MistyBlue

Oct. 29, 2007, 03:29 PM

It's hard to go the legal route if you know and liked the person otherwise. Because it's hard to imagine in your head that this person would really do something so sleezy.
But dollars to donuts she has priors...those who come across as so wonderful in person can hide a whole lot of ugly stuff.

ExJumper

Oct. 29, 2007, 03:41 PM

What a dumb move.

Whenever I steal a credit card, I make sure to only do online shopping ;)

TalkIsCheap

Oct. 29, 2007, 03:41 PM

You did the right thing. Make an effort to file a report if possible.

That she is an adult and boldly did this, and as a barn employee to a barn client she would be certainly seeing on a routine basis tells me this girl is messed up. She deserves to be canned and had it coming.

It's her fault she screwed up the sweet gig she had, and no one else's.

I daresay the tack shop girls have her number....and this info has spread to other trainers.

kellyb

Oct. 29, 2007, 03:48 PM

My bad. I read 'working student' and assumed it was a teen. An adult...fry her!!

Mozart

Oct. 29, 2007, 03:56 PM

Just curious how $500 at the local tack shop was triggered as unusual behavior - you do own a horse, don't you :lol::lol::lol:

Seriously - Good Luck.:lol:
lol that was my first thought.....sadly I am pretty sure that a $500 charge at a tack shop would NOT trigger as suspicous activity on my card

hundredacres

Oct. 29, 2007, 04:10 PM

Wigwag

Oct. 29, 2007, 04:21 PM

Oct. 29, 2007, 04:58 PM

Whenever I steal a credit card, I make sure to only do online shopping ;)

And you have the swag sent to ...? ;)

OP, don't expect Citibank to do anything. They suffered no loss. My nephew had a "friend" stay overnight, and the kid boosted a credit card from my sister and her husband, along with some cash. They noticed the missing money and called the kid's parents. Money was found stashed in his room and it was returned.

They didn't discover the theft of the credit card until they received a statement for several thousand dollars worth of electronics equipment purchased online. Citibank traced the charge to the kid's home computer and removed the charge from my sister's bill. Citibank also told the online marketer "tough luck" because shipping that much stuff to a name and address other than the one on the card is considered a red flag and should never have gotten through.

The kid is a juvenile and they filed a police report, which is being investigated. But Citibank isn't participating because they didn't lose any money. And get this: the online company wouldn't tell my sister where they shipped the items or to whom because of "privacy issues."

Dalfan

Oct. 29, 2007, 05:03 PM

You are doing the right thing with reporting her.

Giddy-up

Oct. 29, 2007, 05:05 PM

I am glad you told the BO & they confronted her. And I am even happier the BO found it unacceptable & fired her. Yay for the BO & watching out for her clients without making excuses for the offender! I am amazed by what people think they are entitled to or can get away with. :eek:

I would pursue the police charges if you are able to.

And I wouldn't call her. I don't know why she would say that?? :confused: If she wanted to apoligize, she could have contacted you. If you called her now, she could claim you were "threatening" her or something & try to turn the police on you. You never know how people operate. :no:

ExJumper

Oct. 29, 2007, 05:06 PM

And you have the swag sent to ...? ;)

Um... Anonymous PO Box?

I guess I have to rethink this whole "life-of-crime" think I was considering...

CBudFrggy

Oct. 29, 2007, 05:08 PM

What a dumb move.

Whenever I steal a credit card, I make sure to only do online shopping ;)

ROFLMAO!!! Yeah, b/c then they can deliver it to your house!

Don't feel badly about reporting her to the BO or her loss of a job. She might have been stealing all along from the boarders and no one had caught her yet. You never know.

UnhappyAlter

Oct. 29, 2007, 05:31 PM

You are correct (whichever person posted this) that Citibank is not interested in knowing who did it or how it happened, probably because they sustained no losses and their system successfully protected them (and in this case me and the vendor) by flagging the transaction.

The young woman (writing this, I think I sound 70, which I am not) called me and apologized when I tried to contact her to see if I could get the card returned. She had already destroyed it and dropped it in a dumpster behind a grocery over the weekend, and it's likely that the dumpster has been emptied already. She sounded honestly sorry and didn't front any nonsense to me. She offered to do anything I might want to make amends, and I told her I didn't need anything from her, but if she wanted to make amends, not to let this mistake define her life.

I continue to find this whole episode very distressing, not because of the loss and inconvenience to me, which were fortunately minor, but because she's made a mess of her own life. Heck, I was thrilled to be riding the horse that she schooled because she was having such a good effect on his manners and obedience. She gave the horse a gorgeous full body clip last week, he was complimented on it by several at the show. It's a waste of her abilities to have made this mistake.

BuddyRoo

Oct. 29, 2007, 05:51 PM

You know, this is me being Karma conscious.....

But maybe you should call her, ask her for her address, and send her a note saying what you said in that last paragraph.

I'm not making excuses for her...but if someone is capable of doing those things, it seems to me that they likely have other "issues". Perhaps reading something like that--where you say what a lovely job she did and how she has so much talent. And that you are disappointed but forgive her....well....maybe, just maybe, she will look at that and realize that she can do better.

I'm really not a bleeding heart. Really. But the fact that she owned up when confronted and also offered to make it right and all that--she is getting the clue.

Frankly, you'e handled this with a lot of grace. Well done.

(still, police should be involved--I'm not a total sucker.)

Huntertwo

Oct. 29, 2007, 06:00 PM

Um... Anonymous PO Box?

I guess I have to rethink this whole "life-of-crime" think I was considering...

UPS won't deliver to a PO Box... You need to find a new career void of crime...lol :lol:

Sing Mia Song

Oct. 29, 2007, 06:09 PM

I have to say, Citibank is really good at their fraud watch. I've had several different cards over the years (which makes me sound like I'm such a big spender) but Citibank and Amex are the only two who have ever called about unusual charges.

OP, what a shame--for you, for the horse, for the BO and for the working student. Hopefully being caught out like this will get her to straighten up, although I have my doubts.

Roisin

Oct. 29, 2007, 07:00 PM

The young woman (writing this, I think I sound 70, which I am not) called me and apologized when I tried to contact her to see if I could get the card returned. She had already destroyed it and dropped it in a dumpster behind a grocery over the weekend, and it's likely that the dumpster has been emptied already. She sounded honestly sorry and didn't front any nonsense to me. She offered to do anything I might want to make amends, and I told her I didn't need anything from her, but if she wanted to make amends, not to let this mistake define her life.

I just have a bad feeling you are being played and that this is not her first (or last) time...just my gut. I can tell you don't want to, but I would still file a police report. She did not make a "mistake", she made a decision to rob you. She'll just be smarter about it next time. JMHO. I would not want to be in your shoes!

ESG

Oct. 29, 2007, 07:30 PM

I'm with Roisin. See my PT. ;)

saddleup

Oct. 29, 2007, 10:55 PM

I'm sure she's very sorry....THAT SHE GOT CAUGHT!

File the police report.

Crooked Horse

Oct. 29, 2007, 11:41 PM

I have to say, Citibank is really good at their fraud watch. I've had several different cards over the years (which makes me sound like I'm such a big spender) but Citibank and Amex are the only two who have ever called about unusual charges.

Agreed. I do not like Citibank, but they merged with my bank years ago and well, you know it's just such a pain to get a new account and change everything over. Anyway, most (99.9%) of my spending is done here in my hometown because I NEVER go anywhere. I bought my son an airline ticket once and when I went to get gas the next day my account was locked down!!! They could have called me, but I was still grateful. One call from me got it unlocked.

JanM

Oct. 30, 2007, 08:02 AM

Make the police report-she's only sorry because she got caught. If the card company didn't get suspicious she'd have the merchandise in her hot little hands and you'd be totally screwed. I bet the tack store was only the preliminary purchase. I wouldn't be surprised if she actually has a long record, and certainly a juvenile record for similar things. If she had gone to walmart or another store and done a credit purchase she wouldn't even have to show identification, just a signature. Did you look at all of your charges from the card? or call customer service and tell them you want them to check out temporary authorizations too. Credit charges can take days to show up even in the temp. charges section and you need to change your card number even if you think she didn't keep a copy of your number and security code from the back of the card---if you don't change the account number she can go online in the future or sell the number to another thief--because that's exactly what she is a THIEF!

A friend of mine had her card lifted in a purse theft and by the time she finished the police report and notified the card company the people had hit several high dollar stores and run up thousands in bills.

EponaRoan

Oct. 30, 2007, 01:12 PM

The credit card company has probably (hopefully!) already cancelled that account and issued the OP a new card. If they haven't, OP - please insist.

It's also a good idea to run credit reports periodically. I cycle between the three that participate every 4 months.

https://www.annualcreditreport.com/cra/index.jsp

And be sure to check your credit card statements! We had a situation this past summer where a bunch of people from the same dog list ordered from a fellow subscriber. We got our stuff, but pretty much everyone who paid on the website via credit card had a weird $14.95 charge from various internet companies on their statement. Come to find out it was someone at the hosting company that had ripped us off. Lesson 1: never use unsecure servers! We'd trusted it since it was a trusted friend (who was totally innocent, but her hosting company was not). The bank reversed the charges, but wasn't very interested in following up since it was only $14.95 and they weren't out anything or that much.

I know that it's not cost effective to prosecute these people and send them to jail, but dammit - it's like letting your kid or dog or horse get away with little things ("Oh, 3 year old Johnny just stole a candybar - oh, well, he's only three and it's only 50 cents." "Dobbin keeps crowding me, but he's only a baby and it's soooo cute - he wuvs me!" - if they get away with it, they tend to escalate the behavior & it just gets worse.

Sigh. :(

BeastieSlave

Oct. 30, 2007, 01:55 PM

I'm with the others who would go ahead and file that report with the police. I'm glad you got an apology, but I don't see how this gal has really learned a lesson. Sure, she lost her job and was probably a bit humiliated, but that might just make her more careful 'next time'. She needs to face the consequences now (while she can learn from them and no one has been hurt).

And, if you (OP) feel that's harsh, just think - it's not as harsh as it will be down the road if she gets caught after actually completing a purchase with a stolen card. You might just be doing her a favor if you can nip this in the bud now :yes:

rileyt

Oct. 30, 2007, 02:39 PM

I am a notoriously soft-on-crime bleeding-heart liberal who thinks the criminal justice system does nothing except make more criminals. I, too, worry about this young woman's future, but ...

File the report.

Seriously. Here's what will happen: They will book her, and ASSUMING this is just a one time lack of judgment, she will plea bargain with the state prosecutor (who will have no interest in trying this case) and she'll get a minor sentence. Who knows... maybe a little jail time, maybe probation with community service. Both of those could be GOOD things for her to help straighten her out.

If she's had other incidences of bad judgment, she will be in deeper trouble... but then, she'll deserve it.

Don't put the future of this woman on your shoulders. Its not your burden to bear. Turn her in and let the system sort it out.

Good luck.

asb_own_me

Oct. 30, 2007, 02:43 PM

Don't put the future of this woman on your shoulders. Its not your burden to bear. Turn her in and let the system sort it out.
Good luck.

Bingo. It's her burden, not yours. File that report.

On the subject of credit card companies who pay attention - my DH and I have had great luck with Wells Fargo. We've gotten plenty of calls regarding suspected suspicious activity....even when the activity is more along the lines of "lost my marbles".....and they keep calling and checking ;)

UnhappyAlter

Oct. 30, 2007, 03:02 PM

SBT

Oct. 30, 2007, 03:14 PM

Probably nothing we can say will change your mind, but consider that while filing a police report could mess up her life (short term), it could also SAVE her life. Having gotten away with this crime, she'll move on to "bigger and better" things involving more risk and greater consequences. If she gets arrested now and is forced to attend therapy sessions as part of her sentence/probation, the cycle could be broken NOW, before she does something more serious.

All I'm saying is that you might be doing her a favor by pressing charges. Although it isn't perfect, the legal system CAN provide avenues for rehabilitation that people might not find on their own.

Just a thought. :yes:

greysandbays

Oct. 30, 2007, 11:29 PM

Dear COTHers -- I have decided not to file a police report, for some selfish logistical reasons and for other reasons that, from the looks of things on this board, will not be persuasive for many of you, which is ok, because, like Popeye, "Iyam what Iyam", and can only do what feels right to me.

To file a report would cost me the better part of an afternoon of time, since the proper jurisdiction is not the one I live in. My time is beyond tight these days, with many responsibilities, job, some freelancing, daunting home improvement projects, scarce pony time, etc. I find myself unwilling to spend the time on this miserable bureaucratic chore.

More basically, I just find I don't want to do it. I don't regard myself as a crappy or naive judge of character, and don't get surprised that often. The destruction wreaked in someone's life by a police report is substantial. In the world we live in, it is in some cases very difficult to even get housing or employment with just an arrest record, let alone a conviction. Since in the end actual physical theft was prevented, I am ready to consider the loss of a nice job and some very good opportunities sufficient punishment. This is my gut feeling, and I have to go with it.

It's true, this mistake is her burden, and she has to look in the mirror in the morning. But so do I, and this is what feels right to me.

Is this "mistake" really her burden, or is getting caught just a little blip in her criminal career? If you think you are a better-than-average judge of character, and she fooled the hell out of you, she's probably had more than a bit of practice being a theif.

Credit cards have the owner's name on them. There's no way anybody with the least bit of honor whatsoever can "find" the card belonging to somebody they know and go running off to buy stuff on it istead of returning it post haste. A decent person would would take the proper steps to get a lost card back to its rightful owner, even for a stranger.

If you aren't going to sic the law on her, at least corner her in a dark alley (with NO witnesses) and beat the crap out of her!! (only half kidding)

Sithly

Oct. 30, 2007, 11:41 PM

Good to know.

Can I borrow your wallet? I promise to give it back.

ESG

Oct. 30, 2007, 11:45 PM

OP, I'm just wondering if your mind will change when you find out about the rest of the charges she made on your card. Or, WILL make on your card. Do you really believe that she destroyed it, as she claims? :rolleyes: I know that the account is closed, but with online shopping being what it is, I'm betting she'll be able to get a bit more mileage out of your card before it shuts down completely. :p

I feel sorry for both of you. :no:

UnhappyAlter

Oct. 30, 2007, 11:47 PM

I don't need anyone's pity or condescension, thank you.

ESG

Oct. 30, 2007, 11:51 PM

You asked for opinions, you got them. You made what you must know is an unpopular decision regarding filing a police report; surely you know COTH well enough by now to know there would be dissent? And let's not even get started on how, by not making this theft have any consequences, that you're enabling this person in future thefts....:no:

I can feel sorry for both of you if I want. :D

lcbaker

Oct. 30, 2007, 11:58 PM

I think you have handled this situation with grace! I commend you for doing what feels right to you and I personally agree with your decision.

Kate66

Oct. 31, 2007, 12:37 AM

What a crappy thing to have happened all round. I can certainly empathise with you on just the logistical hassle of having to file a police report. I am amazed that you actually have to go that far to do it and your local police station can't handle it. Sucks.

I am with those that suspect that this is not her 1st time though, nor her last. I suspect that she was extremely apologetic in the sincere hope that you did not file a police report which taken with other potential reports that she has out there, could completely screw her. You felt abused when she stole your card, felt that you were a good judge of character (which I am not saying you aren't!) and were horrified that she had stolen and used it. I just wonder why, knowing that she already did this to you, you wouldn't want to stop it happening to someone else? I think that's the way I would think about it, by taking the time, which I am sure is a serious hassle (everything for me these days is too!), to file the police report, might actually help someone else who might not be so lucky as being able to stop the charges before they go through. It won't help you, but it really might help someone else, much unluckier than you.

Aimee Thanatogenus

Oct. 31, 2007, 02:03 AM

I don't need anyone's pity or condescension, thank you.

No, but think about the next person she does this to because you can't get off your behind and drive to file the police report AND/OR you think she's not playing you like a cheap violin.

You are off the hook. Sorry for the next guy? Not enough to shift you.

:no: sad

JanM

Oct. 31, 2007, 07:40 AM

Actually I think the tack store manager that notified you and has all of the information can file a report about the attempted use of the card since it was an attempt to steal $500 worth of their merchandise and they have all the information. They are the target and your card was just part of the overall crime-because the use of the card is the actual crime. Then you would just file a witness report in response to their filing.

TwoArabs

Oct. 31, 2007, 07:51 AM

Nikki17

Oct. 31, 2007, 08:02 AM

Trakehner

Oct. 31, 2007, 08:04 AM

Sigh...it's too much effort to do the right thing....

Sure, that pony is skinny, buy it's too much effort to worry about him.

Sure, she does have a few bruises, but she says he'll never hit her again...it's too much effort.

Sure, that horse is lame and the owner is overworking it, but it's too much effort and I don't want to get involved.

So, one more criminal on the street and another person for us to have to worry about.

Huntertwo

Oct. 31, 2007, 08:29 AM

Quote: To file a report would cost me the better part of an afternoon of time, since the proper jurisdiction is not the one I live in. My time is beyond tight these days, with many responsibilities, job, some freelancing, daunting home improvement projects, scarce pony time, etc. I find myself unwilling to spend the time on this miserable bureaucratic chore.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Wow, :eek: It is sad you feel that way. Society today - Easier to look the other way than get involved and do the right thing. Then when these criminals escalate, we wonder how they got that far without being stopped. Very sad indeed....:no:

BeastieSlave

Oct. 31, 2007, 08:32 AM

As I read through the 4 pages of thread, I KNEW you were not going to legally pursuit this, as you continually defended her character. This certainly is your perogative, however, you may feel "inconvenienced" by not wanting to drive 45 minutes into traffic, but if you think for one minute she won't do this again, or for one minute she is truly sorry for what she did you're wrong. Let's just hope that the next person she steals from isn't someone as fortunate as you, let's hope it's not a single mothers wallet so she can get some new boots. I am sure she has done this before and now that she has gotten away with it again, will do this again. I feel it's unfortunate that you don't feel this is worth a 45 minute drive. :mad:

My feelings exactly!
And you came very close to having a whole lot of inconvenience! I think you would have spent a great deal more time (and stress) working things out if those charges had gone through. Would you have pressed charges if she had been able to run up a big tab on your card? The only difference is that she was stopped before that happened. Note: she was stopped. She didn't feel guilty and decide not to go through with it - she got caught and told you she felt bad.

ESG

Oct. 31, 2007, 08:33 AM

The OP had the conversations with the individual both before and after the theft. Her judgement of the situation includes subtle nuances that those here have not been part of. She may feel that this person sincerely wants to reform and may not do this again. It is up to her. JMHO.

"..........I got some oceanfront property in A-ri-zo-na; from my front porch you can seeee the seeeaaa,..............................." :winkgrin:

Romany

Oct. 31, 2007, 08:53 AM

Wow! That's one lucky thief, having someone she tried to rip off be so generous about it.

I respect the OP's decision - don't agree with her rationale, but that's her choice, and I appreciate that she brought her thought-provoking dilemma here, as I've found the different perspectives really interesting.

It did occur to me that, of course, one alternative would be to "out" the young thief here on COTH - kinda like throwing her to the wolves!

UnhappyAlter

Oct. 31, 2007, 10:40 AM

Aimee Thanatogenus

Oct. 31, 2007, 10:44 AM

Maybe you should. My ethics are in tact. I didn't dump a thief back on the street with a pat on the back. Then you come back and snipe at those of us who have some backbone.
Nicely done. Nicely done.:no:

rileyt

Oct. 31, 2007, 10:58 AM

Ouch! I disagree with not filing the report, but agree wholeheartedly that we can (and should) disagree without the typical COTH pile-on.

Grow up people. I'm glad UA posted about it and gave us a chance to convince her. We weren't able to -- so be it.

Good luck to you UA (I do really hope the little sprite threw the card away... but PLEASE make sure you've cancelled it nonetheless).

Nikki17

Oct. 31, 2007, 11:40 AM

If you don't want a "pile on" don't ask for opinions on a BB with HUNDREDS of users. You feel piled on b/c there are so many folks on this BB. So are you saying there should be a limit to the amount of responses allowed??? Wow, Erin's got her work cut out for her then. Come on, you KNEW you were going to get a lot of responses out of this topic. If you don't want MULTIPLE comments, don't post here, go talk one on one with a friend or spouse.

Chester's Mom

Oct. 31, 2007, 11:40 AM

Here's an insight that I wish could be absorbed on this board:

It is possible to disagree with people without insulting them or impugning their motives or intelligence. Really. Try it.

I am in the situation. You are not. I expected for folks to disagree, and am ok with disagreement. The typical ugly COTH pile on is ensuing, and you all need to find some other situation to express your disapproval of. Now go play in traffic or something.

OK, well... I disagree. In spades. You are the one in the situation but, IMHO, it is never "too much effort" to do the right thing. The right thing is to protect the rest of us who may come into contact with this person at a later date, and have OUR credit, peace of mind and life pummeled by her false transactions. Making a police report in this day and age in no way guarantees any permanent stain on her. She might have charges dismissed, never brought, resolved through mediation (I'm not an attorney, or policeperson and do not play one on tv so am unsure of all the possibilities) get probation, and with a misdemeanor it would never show for employement records. What it DOES is drive home the fact that consequences for bad behavior are a real possibility.

My guess is she tried once more to use the card and it kicked back again and then she destroyed it. Why in the world would she put it behind the grocery store unless she was STILL trying to hide what she had done? Who in the world thinks to throw stuff in dumpsters behind grocery stores? Ummmm.... thieves?

Lucassb

Oct. 31, 2007, 11:43 AM

Every single one of us makes decisions daily that are based on convenience, available resources, etc. I don't fault the OP for their choice. This unfortunate event has probably already cost the OP quite a bit of time and energy, and the thief has experienced significant consequences (loss of a job and that reference, primarily) because the OP went to her BM with the facts of the matter.

IMO, it's a shame when interesting and productive discussions degrade into name calling and condescending snipes. The OP had no obligation to even post the thread, let alone their decision about pressing charges. It is very rare that anyone will change their mind because someone else makes a nasty comment about how misguided that choice is. Sometimes people ARE persuaded by well reasoned, RESPECTFUL disagreement. Just a thought.

trubandloki

Oct. 31, 2007, 11:55 AM

OP I am sorry you had to go thru all of this. I must say I do disagree with your final decision not to file a police report. If for no other reason than you are putting the rest of society at risk. I realize it is not your job to take your time to protect all of the rest of us, but when you have a chance to do something relatively small that might help so many it sure seems like it is worth it.

Think about it this way.

You say you are a good judge of character. I bet you are. (I seem to suck at this) But, like has already been mentioned, she managed to get one over on you. Can you imagine what she can do to others?

And think about it. Did she sound sincere that night when you talked to her in her car, with your credit card in her pocket? What makes you think that when she apologized to you she was any different than the person in the car that night, who had YOUR credit card with them and was planning on using it?

If she was truly sorry she would have come to you before you outed her and apologized and fessed up then.

Please think of the good you are doing for everyone else by her at least knowing that her giving her 'poor me' act will not get her off totally.

Remember, she talked to your face with your card in her pocket. Doesn't that make you just want to scream?

SuperOtto

Oct. 31, 2007, 12:16 PM

Well, just for the record, I had my credit information stolen and used in two counties in Florida (I live in NC), and I was able to file police reports in both counties over the phone. :yes:

Coreene

Oct. 31, 2007, 01:12 PM

UnhappyAlter

Oct. 31, 2007, 01:22 PM

A request for comments does not equal a request to be insulted and talked down to.

I don't recall doing anything to you to merit obscenities. But then, when people with few mental resources are frustrated, they resort to bad language.

Why is everyone so unrelentingly angry on this board? Again, I don't recall being angry at any of you, just choosing not to do all the things I was advised to do. Last time I checked, that's my right.

Lisamarie8

Oct. 31, 2007, 01:27 PM

I always love it when someone comes on her with an alter to ask for advice and then gets holier than thou. And then has the nerve to tell people who took their time to give advice to play in traffic.

What a bitch.

My favorite is when people are SURPRISED when people here get all bishy. I want to pull them aside and say "Honey, have you been paying attention to where you are? This is COTH, the dress code consists of:

1 pair of judgypants
1 intolerance t-shirt
1 myopic pair of sunglassesBless your heart, you created an ALTER for the love of Pearl. You knew this was going to happen, why are you making with the :eek: face?"

I'm not commenting on the OPs decision... mostly because I don't care. JUDGE ME!!!!!

ps-i love my judgypants. I wear them everyday... fit like a glove.

Rebe

Oct. 31, 2007, 01:29 PM

I do not want to join in the "pile on" to the OP - she's not a horrible person, and I don't enjoy seeing the incredibly negative comments thrown at her.

I will, however, tell a somewhat lengthy tale to illustrate a point:

Many years ago, I boarded at a barn at the top of a hill with a (poorly maintained) dirt road leading up to it. Two other farms and a private home were also on the road going up the hill. The "private home" was a double-wide located only a few yards off the dirt road. And the owner hated, absolutely hated, all the traffic from the boarders going up and down the road. He said that it was about dust (in the winter? puh-leeze!), but it was really about territorialism.

He decided to start terrorizing boarders on the road. If there was a guy in a car, he'd leave it alone. If it was a woman driving alone, he'd block the road, either with a car or by standing in the middle of it. He'd yell at the woman (or teenage girl!) driving, threaten them with bodily harm, use abusive language, tell them to never drive on the road again. He did this over and over. The barn owner couldn't do anything, because the barn owner was never directly involved (hearsay doesn't count). But worst of all, none of the women would do anything either. So one after another, they left each other exposed to this guy's harassment.

Until he made the mistake of stopping me one day. With another girl coming from the other direction on the road as a witness.

I immediately took my time and effort and filed a police report. Then I hired a lawyer, splitting the cost with the barn owner (I was very upset with the DA who refused to handle the case, thinking it was NOT IMPORTANT ENOUGH). I took time off work and went to court - twice, because the a$$hat appealed!

And I won. Twice. And he shut up and stayed inside his doublewide, after he paid his nice big fat fine. :cool:

And I'd do it again in a heartbeat.

If you don't DO SOMETHING, you set others up for the same abuse that you complain about.

UnhappyAlter

Oct. 31, 2007, 01:30 PM

Not surprised, but always hoping that adult behavior will be in evidence some part of the time. And of course I used an alter, because I knew how this would go down.

Coreene

Oct. 31, 2007, 01:30 PM

My favorite is when people are SURPRISED when people here get all bishy. I want to pull them aside and say "Honey, have you been paying attention to where you are? This is COTH, the dress code consists of:

1 pair of judgypants
1 intolerance t-shirt
1 myopic pair of sunglassesBless your heart, you created an ALTER for the love of Pearl. You knew this was going to happen, why are you making with the :eek: face?"

I'm not commenting on the OPs decision... mostly because I don't care. JUDGE ME!!!!!

ps-i love my judgypants. I wear them everyday... fit like a glove.I love how "bitch" is an obscenity. :lol:

Edited to say that if you knew how it would go down, OP, then why ask a bunch of strangers for advice in the first place? Are you friendless? Had you no one else to ask?

Nikki17

Oct. 31, 2007, 01:34 PM

I agree with LisaMarie, however, kinda harsh Coreen calling her a bitch, I don't think I'd go that far. Alter, I guess there's really no way anyone can change your mind right? So my suggesstion is that if you have made up your mind as to how you are going to handle the situation, and the comments on the BB are upsetting you, stop reading them, or try to delete your thread (can you do that?) More I'm sure will continue to come.

LAZ

Oct. 31, 2007, 01:35 PM

Unhappy Alter

I think you have been very considerate in your manner of dealing with this. Perhaps the person who took the CC is at a very bad time in their life (and if they aren't it sounds like she's just stupid, which will be a long term handicap anyway). If she was genuinely repentent, and you weren't harmed, and you don't feel it is in your best interests to press charges, well then, that's your business and your decision. If she's at a bad point, and you showed compassion perhaps it's all for the good. She lost her job, she's lost her credibility (as word like this seldom stays private in an area), maybe she'll straighten up and never do anything so stupid again, and maybe she will extend a hand to someone who needs it at some point in their life.

I mean, really now, taking the card to a local tack store and acting like she did sort of screams "Look At Me! Pay Attention To Me!" in my book. If she'd been really serious about causing trouble she could have done some internet purchases, etc, without such a big probability of being caught.

And before everyone jumps on me--I don't think the police or credit card company would have jumped on this and hauled the perp off to jail--no blood no foul. I tried to file charges against a business that didn't follow through on their contract with me and it went absolutely nowhere, cost me much time and frustration and didn't inconvenience the contractor in the the least. My only recourse was to pay other people to finish the job correctly, and file a report with the BBB, which I did.

Maybe the lesson we should all take from this is to be sure we keep our CC's, cash, and other personal property as safe as we can at all times.

arabhorse2

Oct. 31, 2007, 01:36 PM

If you don't DO SOMETHING, you set others up for the same abuse that you complain about.

Exactly. OP, I'd file the report just so someone else wouldn't have to go through what you did. Letting another person take the fall when it happens again, and it will, is inexcusable if you have the ability to stop it.

It's not just about you anymore; it involves whoever else this woman comes into contact with and decides to make her next victim.

Remember, for evil to flourish, it only takes good people to do nothing.

Coreene

Oct. 31, 2007, 01:40 PM

kinda harsh Coreen calling her a bitch, I don't think I'd go that far. And yet, the OP telling people to go play in traffic was such a Miss Congeniality moment. :dead:

RHdobes563

Oct. 31, 2007, 01:41 PM

My friend/mentor/dog trainer has a T-shirt that says, "I may be a bitch, but I'm the PICK of the litter."

I don't consider it an obscenity, considering how loving, loyal, and faithful dogs (males AND females) are.

Dressage4Fun

Oct. 31, 2007, 01:43 PM

Not surprised, but always hoping that adult behavior will be in evidence some part of the time. And of course I used an alter, because I knew how this would go down.

well, Bless Your Heart. If you knew,, why post??

I work in LE... and I am SO sorry to hear that you are declining to file on her. yes, it is a PITA,, but who else will she scam, hurt, take food out of the mouth of? nice that she is good enough at her "game" that she could smile sweetly at you and talk nicey nice and all the while have your cc in her hot little pocket!! pick up the phone, most police reports can be filed that way, or over the internet.
MHO

RHdobes563

Oct. 31, 2007, 01:44 PM

Bless your heart, you created an ALTER for the love of Pearl. You knew this was going to happen, why are you making with the :eek: face?"

:lol:

EponaRoan

Oct. 31, 2007, 01:45 PM

Is this "mistake" really her burden, or is getting caught just a little blip in her criminal career? If you think you are a better-than-average judge of character, and she fooled the hell out of you, she's probably had more than a bit of practice being a theif.

Credit cards have the owner's name on them. There's no way anybody with the least bit of honor whatsoever can "find" the card belonging to somebody they know and go running off to buy stuff on it istead of returning it post haste. A decent person would would take the proper steps to get a lost card back to its rightful owner, even for a stranger.

Yeah, my first thought when I find a credit card is not, "Wow - I can go on a shopping spree! Wheeeee!!"

Bingo. Thieves are good at lying. Earlier on this thread, I referenced my old Bad Neighbor who was either the one who stole or had a roommate that stole one of those damned convenience checks that credit card companies send out. He attempted to cash it with the help of his alleged 'mother' but fortunately that didn't happen. But the Bad Neighbor was always very polite, apologized for the trouble and blamed it on his (series of) bad roommates. And he was the grandson of people who I had known for years! :eek:

At any rate, once the whole neighborhood turned on him and started calling the police for every little thing (at the police department's recommendation - they wanted the scum out too), a lot of things came out. And he wound up doing time in jail. And mind you, this was a late 30s/early 40s guy who hadn't really been in (documented) trouble before - he'd just had speeding tickets. But you have to wonder what went unreported - I doubt it was his first trip to the rodeo when he fell in with a bad crowd. :rolleyes: Please - he was 40ish, not 16.

Anyway, he wound up with quite a few criminal charges and did time in the pokey this summer for - are you ready? - stealing. Something with a motorcycle and burglary and a fake check and weapons! :eek: Yeah, it got that bad.

So, I dunno - do whatcha gotta do. I dragged my feet on some of my Bad Neighbor stuff because I was afraid they'd do something to my dogs and because I live alone (although I am armed and a bitch, but still ...). Although I have to say, my bitch GSD was a really good judge of his charactor - she hated him and would just stand by me and growl really low whenever he'd come to my (security screened) door. And she's generally quite friendly to my friends. I think they were afraid of my dogs and that's why they didn't break into my house.

Dressage4Fun

Oct. 31, 2007, 01:47 PM

BTW,, I just called my mommy,, Bitch is NOT a bad word... it is a female dog,, and I LOVE my female dog,, she is a good judge of people!!
so there!

Nikki17

Oct. 31, 2007, 01:49 PM

BTW,, I just called my mommy,, Bitch is NOT a bad word... it is a female dog,, and I LOVE my female dog,, she is a good judge of people!!
so there!

ok, ok, we all know that she was not referring to a female dog. Enough female dog references :lol::lol:

Sakura

Oct. 31, 2007, 02:05 PM

I think the OP has it all wrong... she is not the good judge of character... the thief was.

hollyhorse2000

Oct. 31, 2007, 02:47 PM

I've read this all through and am more than a bit surprised by the constant insistence that she file a report. It was clear to me from the start that the OP LIKED the girl. She has repeatedly said she was nice, was a good worker, handled the horses well, etc. If anything, her feelings are hurt that the girl did this to her. From that aspect, I do understand the OP's decision not to pursue legally. Whether the girl deserves this kindness or not, is open to debate. She may be a nice girl who did something stupid or a pathological liar who is out to scam everyone she meets. We don't know. But I would probably find myself similarly conflicted in a similar situation if I were convinced she was the former.

Westlaw

Oct. 31, 2007, 03:11 PM

Bearing in mind that I probably would have filed a report, here are few thoughts:

(1) I'm really glad that the Red Sox won. That just needed to be said.

(2) Although it is true that we can all expect a pile-on when posting on COTH-- as the OP conceded-- generally the pile-on involves 30 posters expressing 40 opinions at odds with one another, some of whom paint the poster as a saint, some of whom attack her, and others of whom just use the space to hash out old grudges with one another. I don't think that what happened here is in the ordinary course of business. Being called a "bitch" for making a decision based upon a sincere wish to act in generosity is an all-time low even for this board.

(3) In order for the Red Sox to win, the Yankees had to lose. That just needed to be said.

(4) It's frustrating to think that the thief will get away with it, but (a) she won't; and (b) there is absolutely no causal relationship between the OP's filing a report and the thief getting away with it.

--She's not going to get away with it. She lost her job. What is the first question on any job application (after "do you support the overthrow of the government or the New York Yankees)? "Have you ever been fired from a job?" Being fired from a job is more than a loss of livelihood. It is a an obstacle to getting another one. She's also lost her most recent reference. And given how small (and estrogen-enriched) the horse world is, word of this is likely to reach many farms faster than a Trakehner with a bee sting on its a$$.

--There's no causal relationship because the police won't do much of anything. If this was a fish they really wanted to fry, they'd strongly encourage the OP to come on down. The fact is that they have limited resources, it was a petty theft, and the legal consequences would most likely have been minimal, except for complications on her credit and employment records that could follow her for a long time. She wasn't going to do time.

(5) Although I can understand that people would not want to "enable" the thief's behavior, please don't treat the OP like she has just set an abusive spouse, horse neglecter, or other evil person loose on society to terrorize innocent victims when she could have made all of the difference. The idiot thief stuck her hands in the wrong cookie jar. What a dumbass. But really-- domestic violence? Animal neglect? Turn off Oprah and take a deep, cleansing breath.

It's very rare for a person who has been wronged to try to take the high road and engage in sincere forgiveness. I'm an atheist of Jewish origin but I believe it's even a Christian ideal-- turning the other cheek. I probably would have gotten medieval on the thief because that's me, but I can't help but admire someone who was able to put herself in the other person's shoes and give her a chance to do right. I am not a criminal but I have my share of f-- ups. I hope that I come across big-hearted people when I screw up, and I hope that all of you do too.

trubandloki

Oct. 31, 2007, 03:12 PM

I think the OP has it all wrong... she is not the good judge of character... the thief was.

Thumbs up to that one!!!

BeastieSlave

Oct. 31, 2007, 03:20 PM

You're right, we don't know.
With the information I have, I can't help but feel that some 'tough love' is the best thing for this girl. I might be more sympathetic if she had tried to charge groceries or a car repair. I feel that in the long run, the OP is not doing this girl any favors....

The OP admitted that (s)he didn't make that kind of purchase with the cc ($600 at a tack store). Why is it okay for someone else to do that because they are not a stranger? I'd really like to know, if a stranger had taken the credit card would the police report have been filed? If the charge had gone through, would the police be notified?

Coreene

Oct. 31, 2007, 03:20 PM

Being called a "bitch" for making a decision based upon a sincere wish to act in generosity is an all-time low even for this board. Read for comprehension, what I said was:

I always love it when someone comes on her with an alter to ask for advice and then gets holier than thou. And then has the nerve to tell people who took their time to give advice to play in traffic.

What a bitch.

So, let's review:

a. Too bad the Angels biffed it in the playoffs
b. I said "what a bitch" in reference to her sahing that people should play in traffic, not "based upon a sincere wish to act in generosity."

Sakura

Oct. 31, 2007, 03:21 PM

"I'm an atheist of Jewish origin but I believe it's even a Christian ideal-- turning the other cheek."

It is also a Christian belief to "spare the rod, and spoil the child".

BeastieSlave

Oct. 31, 2007, 03:24 PM

She's not going to get away with it. She lost her job. What is the first question on any job application (after "do you support the overthrow of the government or the New York Yankees)? "Have you ever been fired from a job?" Being fired from a job is more than a loss of livelihood. It is a an obstacle to getting another one. She's also lost her most recent reference. And given how small (and estrogen-enriched) the horse world is, word of this is likely to reach many farms faster than a Trakehner with a bee sting on its a$$.

Does anyone really answer "yes" to that question?
Loss of references might hurt her, but if she wasn't working at the barn that long, there won't be a big gap that needs to be explained away....

Ride'emCO

Oct. 31, 2007, 03:32 PM

It is also a Christian belief to "spare the rod, and spoil the child".

That isn't a belief, it's a warning. IF you spare the rod, you WILL spoil the child.

I would have filed the report. What this girl did wasn't an "oopsie!", it was calculated and dishonest. She looked OP in the eye, chit-chatted with her like butter wouldn't melt in her mouth, and then went shopping.

ESG

Oct. 31, 2007, 03:33 PM

Westlaw

Oct. 31, 2007, 03:37 PM

"I'm an atheist of Jewish origin but I believe it's even a Christian ideal-- turning the other cheek."

It is also a Christian belief to "spare the rod, and spoil the child".

"Spare the rod, spoil the child" is from the Book of Proverbs, in the Old Testament. The sequel is where the nice guy in sandals says to turn the other cheek. I'm just saying.

This woman is not the OP's child. She tried to have a big heart about the thing. Maybe it will "spoil" the thief, or perhaps it will reform her. None of us knows. Maybe the young woman doesn't even know yet.

You know, I'm really happy about the Sox winning, but if there hadn't been a sweep there would be a game on tonight, which would be really cool. Life is characterized by the tension of opposites.

Off to get ready for Halloween with my child.

Whom I do not beat and who is not spoiled.

I'm just saying.

Invested1

Oct. 31, 2007, 03:37 PM

So, some friends and I went to Portugal for New Years last year and had an absolute blast....except for the fact that one of my friends got mugged. We weren't 50 feet apart (she had walked down the road a bit to peek around a corner to see if what we were looking for was there), but it was late and dark (though fairly crowded) as it was New Years Eve.

Out of nowhere jumped this man and woman who grabbed my friend and started rummaging through her pockets. My other friend went running down to help while I got a group of 5 guys a few feet away to come help us.

One of the guys jumped into the fight and ended up getting stabbed (scarily close to his heart!) and the muggers took off. Multiple people called the police. Apparently the police don't usually respond to calls as muggings are "common place" or, as the sister of the stabbed guy said, "these things happen."

Since there was blood shed, the police did show up.
We sat for at least an hour while the paramedics showed up to take care of the stabbed guy (who spent the night in the hospital but was released the next day) and then the police asked if we wanted to file a report. Know how long we thought about that? We didn't--we all responded that ABSOLUTELY we wanted to file a report!!! We spent the next 4.5 hours in the police station filling out reports, looking at pictures, etc (***REMEMBER, this was NOT our country AND we were on vacation and we STILL "wasted our time" filling out a report to help clean up the streets of Lisbon).

Guess what? These 2 were known criminals. Muggers. Who had never been violent (apparently there is "mugging ettiquette" and muggers would never pull a knife on a woman--it only got bloody when the guy jumped in to help). Know what else happened? They found and arrested the two and tried them for attemped murder!! They are both now serving prison sentences and will likely (at least I hope) never mug nor stab again.

Yes, I'll admit this situation is pretty different from the OP's, but the moral is the same. If you do nothing to punish this person, then I hope you feel guilty as hell when you find out she has done the same (if not worse) crap to someone else.

You shouldn't feel like it's your choice to file a report; it's your responsibility.

trubandloki

Oct. 31, 2007, 03:41 PM

--She's not going to get away with it. She lost her job. What is the first question on any job application (after "do you support the overthrow of the government or the New York Yankees)? "Have you ever been fired from a job?" Being fired from a job is more than a loss of livelihood. It is a an obstacle to getting another one.

I am totally confused here.

You actually think a woman who is willing to chat to the face of another person she shared a friendship with, while she has that person's credit card on her that she plans to use to scam some new riding stuff is going to be honest on her next job application?

Wow!

Isn't that an interesting thought.

I highly doubt this person will even consider this worth mentioning when she applies for another job. (not that most barns actually have applications to fill out) The credit card user is a dishonest thief. I doubt the dishonesty ends with just scamming somebodies credit card, do you?

Why is everyone so unrelentingly angry on this board? Again, I don't recall being angry at any of you, just choosing not to do all the things I was advised to do. Last time I checked, that's my right.

I think everyone is a slightly strong word there isn't it? (I hate it when Mr. Trubandloki uses always and everyone when it does not apply, so it irked me here too.)

ESG

Oct. 31, 2007, 03:47 PM

Although I can understand that people would not want to "enable" the thief's behavior, please don't treat the OP like she has just set an abusive spouse, horse neglecter, or other evil person loose on society to terrorize innocent victims when she could have made all of the difference. The idiot thief stuck her hands in the wrong cookie jar. What a dumbass. But really-- domestic violence? Animal neglect? Turn off Oprah and take a deep, cleansing breath.

I think you misunderstand the use of "enable" here. By not taking any action against this woman, the OP has most definitely enabled her to do this again, without repercussion. Yes, she lost a riding job - big deal. It must not have been too important to her, if she was dumb enough to steal from those she worked with/for. And the fact that she did steal, and did get away with it (as in, no legal action taken against her), tells me that she has done this before, and she will again. All because the OP is too lazy to file a report. A pity, really. No one learned anything from this. :no:

It's very rare for a person who has been wronged to try to take the high road and engage in sincere forgiveness.

I think, n this case, you're confusing "the high road" with "the easy way out". :winkgrin: I don't see this as Christian charity in action; I see it as the OP taking credit for being forgiving, when she's just avoiding being inconvenienced.

I'm an atheist of Jewish origin but I believe it's even a Christian ideal-- turning the other cheek. I probably would have gotten medieval on the thief because that's me, but I can't help but admire someone who was able to put herself in the other person's shoes and give her a chance to do right. I am not a criminal but I have my share of f-- ups. I hope that I come across big-hearted people when I screw up, and I hope that all of you do too.

There's a big difference between a "f--- up" and a theft. Again, that this young woman is so casual about being caught (as in, asking the OP to call her, after being caught?!?!? WHTF?!?!? To chase her down to get an apology? I think not) is fairly strong evidence that this isn't her first time pulling a stunt like this. And there's a good place for people who "f--- up" like this on a regular basis - it's called "jail", and I think that's where she belongs. If only those who she tries to steal from would lift a finger to put her there,..........................:sigh:

Sakura

Oct. 31, 2007, 03:47 PM

ESG

Oct. 31, 2007, 03:50 PM

........................"Evil flourishes when good men do nothing."

And another, from my husband's generation; "You're either part of the solution or part of the problem."

'Nuff said. I'm done with this thread. :cool:

Sargentmajor

Oct. 31, 2007, 04:00 PM

kelliope

Oct. 31, 2007, 04:06 PM

More basically, I just find I don't want to do it. I don't regard myself as a crappy or naive judge of character, and don't get surprised that often. The destruction wreaked in someone's life by a police report is substantial. In the world we live in, it is in some cases very difficult to even get housing or employment with just an arrest record, let alone a conviction. Since in the end actual physical theft was prevented, I am ready to consider the loss of a nice job and some very good opportunities sufficient punishment. This is my gut feeling, and I have to go with it.

It's true, this mistake is her burden, and she has to look in the mirror in the morning. But so do I, and this is what feels right to me.

I really agree with you. It does not sound like she is the career criminal people are making her out to be. She didn't go into your purse and steal the card. Sounds like she found it and got tempted. She didn't even know how to go about it right. And furthermore, she didn't "get away" with her crime. She got caught. And humiliated no doubt.

I am with you UnhappyAlter and think you are probably giving a young girl a second chance at getting her act together.

atr

Oct. 31, 2007, 05:20 PM

I'll give you my old and cynical viewpoint after having run a business for many years, and having tried very hard over the years to be a decent person and help out employees with financial or social problems, or who "make mistakes."

It always, always, always comes back to bite you in the butt. I could give you chapter and verse, but life is too short.

The only advice I can offer you at this juncture is to please make sure your cc # is cancelled and monitor your credit status.

TalkIsCheap

Oct. 31, 2007, 05:51 PM

"It is also a Christian belief to "spare the rod, and spoil the child".

I believe our pastor interpreted that for us as referring to the "rod" or staff a shepherd would use to "guide" his flock along the path as well as to pull a stray animal out of a tough situation.

Not the same idea as smacking or beating the animal.

2ndyrgal

Oct. 31, 2007, 06:57 PM

I understand the OP's "fondness" for the working student. Except it's like the woman who lives with a man for years and then he decides he's gay. OK, he didn't show her who he "really" was. My grandmother said "believe what someone is the first time they show you." She showed you that she has no respect for other people. At all. What you do by not filing a police report and following through with it, is enable her to be smarter the next time. Next time, she won't go to a "local" tack shop, and "order" something. next time, she'll just fill up the gas tank, go to a restaurant, or a department store. Places that never ask for ID. Next time, and there will be a next time probably, she'll be smarter. Credit card companies are funny. I can spend a couple thousand in a tack shop and they don't call (thank God) but I don't use my personal credit card often. So one morning I filled up the dually (ugh!) went to TSC, Wallgreens all within an hour. (I left the house with no cash, keep the checkbook at the office and don't have an ATM card or a PIN) So I got to the local meatmarket, bought$75 worth of meat and the credit card machine said "please call the credit card company". So I called them, they said that so many purchases in that short of time was quite "unusual" for my credit card, and I never used it for small purchases, that's what triggered the "hold". Good for them, theives might have gotten a full tank of gas and some shampoo, but they weren't getting far. Well, they could have bought a full kit at Horse Country, that wouldn't have set it off. LOL.!

CANTEREOIN

Oct. 31, 2007, 07:31 PM

I think the OP's decision was compassionate. I agree the girl lost her job and a reference... that's consequence/punishment.

A police report? Necessary... maybe, but we don't know that she is a repeat offender. Her calling the OP and apologizing and wanting to make amends sounds genuine. And, if the OP wants to give her another chance... so be it.

If it was genuine, maybe the scare/punishment is enough to change the girl. Maybe it is a chance for her. A police record... bad, very bad and could follow her forever.

And, maybe she's an accomplished liar and thief... maybe. What we don't know is what is really the truth.

What I know is the OP's impression and compassion. That I'll believe to be true and wish her well.

What I'd like is for the OP to keep her decision to end the discussion there and leave all on the board to throw darts wherever they want. Who cares? Opinions are just that... opinions and not personal... unless you make them personal.

Whatever...

Ride'emCO

Oct. 31, 2007, 08:15 PM

Sparing the rod and spoiling the child is about CONSEQUENCES. Children need to know that immoral/unethical behavior will not go unpunished. I don't beat my child either, but he knows the limits... this girl the OP posted about was apparently not fortunate enough to have been raised by parents who cared enough to teach her such values.

Thank you!!! Sorry I misunderstood you, that's what I meant when I commented. Children need discipline (not beating) and there must be consequences for bad behavior. This thief is not a child, but she obviously never learned about consequences...or doesn't care...

hundredacres

Oct. 31, 2007, 08:42 PM

OP, I think so many people are angry here because we've all experienced this in one way or another, only it's uncommon to actually CATCH the theif. And it's sort of satisfying to read about someone who may actually have to pay for their crime...and that the victim holds the ball for once. For me personally, I was sort of excited to read about it because I've been burned twice and got nothing but sleepless nights and frustration.

xegeba

Oct. 31, 2007, 09:03 PM

And given how small (and estrogen-enriched) the horse world is, word of this is likely to reach many farms faster than a Trakehner with a bee sting on its a$$. LOL!

Mtn trails

Oct. 31, 2007, 10:07 PM

I am totally confused here.

You actually think a woman who is willing to chat to the face of another person she shared a friendship with, while she has that person's credit card on her that she plans to use to scam some new riding stuff is going to be honest on her next job application?

Wow!

Isn't that an interesting thought.

I highly doubt this person will even consider this worth mentioning when she applies for another job. (not that most barns actually have applications to fill out) The credit card user is a dishonest thief. I doubt the dishonesty ends with just scamming somebodies credit card, do you?

Most companies do background checks in case someone does happen to lie on an application form these days. It's easy to do and can be done on-line so if there is a police report on this and she tries to get a job in the corporate world someday a red flag will pop up with her name on it.

Huntertwo

Oct. 31, 2007, 10:51 PM

Katydid82

Nov. 1, 2007, 12:15 AM

It's an adult that stole the card.

GallopGirl

Nov. 1, 2007, 12:27 AM

I haven't read the whole thread, but have skimmed it. I think you did the right thing. When I was in college, I rode at a VERY small barn. We maybe had 4 people that ever went to horse shows. It was a wretched place really. I'd been burned on showing, so this was my first show in almost 4 years. I took my check book to pay my bill at the end of the day, and left it in my trainer's truck, along with all my other crap. One of the other college girls I rode with decided to steal 2 checks out of my checkbook that day. She used one to pay a speeding ticket out of state, and the other for Taco Bell (that ironically before she went asked me if I wanted anything). I found out of course when I saw my online statements, went through the whole deal with the bank, then told BO and confronted the girl. Her father called me and begged me not to press charges and wire transfered the money back into my account. She ended up getting kicked out of the barn and her father died about 3 months later. I never did press charges, only asked her to remember what she'd done to me, and make sure she never did it again. Don't know what happened to her, but I still feel like I did the right thing.

trubandloki

Nov. 1, 2007, 07:49 AM

Most companies do background checks in case someone does happen to lie on an application form these days. It's easy to do and can be done on-line so if there is a police report on this and she tries to get a job in the corporate world someday a red flag will pop up with her name on it.

You make it sound like she got fired from a huge corporate place. She got fired from a barn. Not Verizon. And there is no police report filed, the OP refuses to file one. So this girl, who seems very proficient at lying is most likely going to lie about getting fired. If she does not even mention having worked at this barn (it was a short time it appears) no one will ever call there for a reference.

Sithly

Nov. 1, 2007, 11:57 PM

Ahh. The OP shows her true colors.

Applesauce

Nov. 2, 2007, 04:30 PM

I am really late in posting on this thread but unless you already have your mind made up completely that you are NOT going to file a police report because it's too far and too much of a hassle, please consider this option:

Most police departments take reports like this every day over the phone. So you'll only have to spend about 10-15 minutes of your time filing the report. It's not too late.

Also, edited to add that what she did is considered a felony. If it is a first offense then she most likely will have it reduced to a misdemeanor and will get suspended jail time pending good behavior. So in other words, except for some fines and court costs she most likely won't have much happen to her anyway but it's a good wake up call.

I know you have your personal reasons for not wanting to pursue this legally but I'm betting that this won't be the last time she tries this and next time she'll only be smarter about doing it. I sure wouldn't want her working in my barn...no matter how talented she is!

Mtn trails

Nov. 2, 2007, 09:36 PM

You make it sound like she got fired from a huge corporate place. She got fired from a barn. Not Verizon. And there is no police report filed, the OP refuses to file one. So this girl, who seems very proficient at lying is most likely going to lie about getting fired. If she does not even mention having worked at this barn (it was a short time it appears) no one will ever call there for a reference.

I know it was from a barn, but if there was a police report and if one day she decided to get a job in the corporate sector that would actually pay the bills, and if the company does a background check, it would come up as a red flag and probably cost her the job.

EponaRoan

Nov. 2, 2007, 10:25 PM

A police report is not equal to being charged with a crime. Being charged with a crime is not equal to a conviction for said crime. Anyone could make a report to the police on me for anything. That doesn't mean I did it or would be convicted if I did do it.

If your county/city/state have court information online, it can be interesting to check and see if someone has been charged and/or convicted. But you do have to be sure you have the right person - just because the name is the same, doesn't mean it's the same person.

Caravel

Nov. 2, 2007, 10:59 PM

From the very first time I heard about this, it has touched me: http://www.ocap.ca/songs/smalcirc.html

Maybe because we had to pay the IRS back the $16,000+ fines and interest that my husband's former business partner stole from the business (by not paying sales tax and pocketing the money) and my husband was too nice to press charges? It was his best friend, after all... :( Bastard went and started another business with some of his friends from church and screwed them over in the same way 6 months later. I wish we would have pressed the charges instead of being on the receiving end of the IRS' wrath.

Don't look the other way. Please.

MacknCody

Nov. 2, 2007, 11:38 PM

Maybe I'm cynical and mean(and really late to the thread since I was engrossed in the halloween one) but make the damn report. Its not like your putting her in solitary confinement for the rest of her life! Punishments should fit the crime and she probably won't have anything major happen to her, maybe court?? But geez, you don't get many second chances in my world.

Just cuz it has to be said..........

Hope the OP gets something else stolen and finds out that that thief has a undocumented long history of crime.... tut tut Yea, I'm evil but fair.

molliwog

Nov. 3, 2007, 12:00 AM

I know it was from a barn, but if there was a police report and if one day she decided to get a job in the corporate sector that would actually pay the bills, and if the company does a background check, it would come up as a red flag and probably cost her the job.

...And as someone who frequently hires employees in the corporate sector, I WILL BE ETERNALLY GRATEFUL TO YOU FOR FILING A POLICE REPORT so that I don't have to manage this situation when I hire this person and she steals from me, one of my customers, or one of my other employees.

And I will be even more grateful that I don't have to pay an attorney $15,000 to sort out the issues that a person like this can cause when people are TOO AFRAID TO CALL THEM ON THEIR BAD AND DISHONEST BEHAVIOR at an early stage, and the bad behavior continues to escalate because they never have to suffer any consequences for it! (Maybe this is because when I stole a piece of candy from the grocery store when I was 6, my mother made me take it to the manager of the store, and make an apology. THen, my mother and the manager discussed whether the police should be called or if I should be sent to reform school for a year. Of course, neither of these things actually happened. But I learned an important lesson on that day because it scared the hell out of me, and taught me that bad, dishonest behavior has consequences- oh- and I've never stolen ANYTHING since.)

Keep in mind that the next thing she steals may be from a struggling single parent who suffers tons of icky misery because of it, and doesn't have the resources that I did to hire an attorney to manage the issues that a similar sort of dishonest, thieving person caused me.

Good Grief- why are people today so willing to put up with this kind of crap?!?!?

~Freedom~

Nov. 3, 2007, 01:51 AM

JumperFun

Nov. 3, 2007, 11:02 AM

Not surprised, but always hoping that adult behavior will be in evidence some part of the time. And of course I used an alter, because I knew how this would go down.

It is possible to disagree with people without insulting them or impugning their motives or intelligence. Really. Try it.

I don't recall doing anything to you to merit obscenities. But then, when people with few mental resources are frustrated, they resort to bad language.
How is telling people to play in traffic or calling people stupid ("few mental resources") adult behavior? Pot, I do believe you are just as black as the kettle.

But since I disagree with your decision, the reasons for your decision and your responses to the resulting posts on this thread, I too will probably be labeled as inappropriate and "piling on."

At what point does it change from "many people expressing their opinions" to a "pile-on?"

the old grey mare

Nov. 3, 2007, 11:54 AM

UnhappyAlter, I wish you would reconsider about filing charges against this person . With no official police report, some other barn owner is going to hire her and other people are going to be victims. By not filing charges, you are teaching her that she can steal and nothing bad will happen. If caught and charged, she might get help and change her ways. STORY: At one point in my life (early 20's), I was president of a small social organization that did small time fund raising for charity. For all of the fundraising activity we were doing, we didn't seem to be doing well financially. A friend of mine, someone who I went out drinking with, liked and enjoyed, was the treasurer. I asked to look at the books. She resisted, came up with excuses, etc... This was a friend of mine and it was a very uncomfortable situation. When I finally got to look at the books, there were big holes in the records and no banks statements as reference. I ended up having to go to the bank to get duplicates. It turns out that this friend of mine, a person we trusted and liked, had been using the club's checking account to pay her bills. On further investigation, it turns out that she had been stealing from her place of employment, too. When I confronted her, she acted all contrite, swore it would never happen agains, etc... The club members voted to not expell her from the organization, and allow her to back the money she had embezzled. I did not tell her parents what had happened. She never repaid the money and ended up stealing from other employers and friends. Fast forward 20 years. My former friend is 43, not married, no prospects. She did not get help and is basically unemployable. I will forever regret not telling her parents so that she could get help before her repuation was too damaged. I consider it partially my fault that she continued to steal, because I did not make sure that she was stopped.
Please, for the sake of this woman and all of the people she might steal from in the future, please turn her into the police.

UnhappyAlter

Nov. 3, 2007, 12:12 PM

It becomes 'piling on' when you insult me and impugn my motives. As opposed to saying, as many have, "I disagree with what you have chosen to do and here is why."

Yes, it's true, I'm a terrible person, because of the 'play in traffic' suggestion', which I made after numerous posts ascended the heights of melodrama, fiction, and analogies to irrelevant situations (comparisons to unreported violent crimes, animal abuse, and such), and many took on a weirdly personal angry tone. As remarks go, not exactly the nastiest thing I've read on this board. Puh-leeze.

I'm not angry at any of you folks. When I read and post on this board, I don't think that posters are entering into a contractual relationship with me to take my advice. Because I have chosen a different path than the consensus on this thread, I am excoriated for it. Get. Over. Yourselves. We all don't do the same things, or view things the same way.

I have reasons to believe that this is likely the perpetrators first such act. Reasons that I choose not to share with y'all because I choose not to debate them with you. I am just not as sure as many of you seem to be that we live in one giant episode of "Law and Order" where anytime someone does a single dishonest thing they are necessarily and without exception embarking on a life of crime. I don't think life is that simple, or human behavior.

And the shriller you all get, the more sure I am of my own course. At this point, only dogs can hear some of these posts. Dang.

Su Valley

Nov. 3, 2007, 12:18 PM

Well if you already knew, or were convinced, what the response here would be, why did you bother posting about it?

I know from recent Grand Jury duty that the activities you described are felonies in my state, and I can understand the reluctance to brand a young person a felon.

Since you have resolved this to *your* satisfaction, there is no more to be said.

Other than I hope that you don't end up regretting the decision.

Aimee Thanatogenus

Nov. 3, 2007, 12:28 PM

And the shriller you all get, the more sure I am of my own course. At this point, only dogs can hear some of these posts. Dang.

Pot meet kettle. :rolleyes::lol:

At1Dressage85

Nov. 3, 2007, 03:30 PM

I don't care how much I liked the girl, I would be telling the barn manager. Where are her ethics and her values? She could steal from other people in the barn, or the barn owner themselves. I would not trust someone with this sort of character. I know we all would love to have $500 land in our lap, but I would never even THINK of using someone else's card or spending money I had FOUND. I would turn it into the barn owner and tell them where/when I found it. That's just horrible. :no:

asb_own_me

Nov. 3, 2007, 05:00 PM

I agree - please reconsider. Another story for you. Years ago, Trainer X had embezzled from a local breed association. The settlement that ensued prevented public knowledge of the crime.

Years after that crime, Trainer X embezzled approximately $22K and undocumented amounts of cash from a local horse shows association. Would have been nice for the board to know of the previous crime before Trainer X was appointed secretary/treasurer.

Please report this. Too many more people will get screwed by this girl if you don't.

Sister Margarita

Nov. 4, 2007, 08:02 AM

I had a similar situation in my barn, except the little darling was also taking things from boarders, my house, blackmailing another young girl in the barn by saying if she was caught she would say the other girl was her accomplice, taking lesson income left in my office, yada yada yada. This was a 13 year old who came to us because she could not stay at her local barn (probably now we know why), could not afford our board so I let her do small odd jobs to work off board, GAVE her lessons to keep her high energy well-directed. I thought I was doing something good for her.

The big surprise came when I reported the theft problem (found all the missing goods in her tackbox) to her mother. Mommy went into denial, accused us of a plot to discredit her little darling by saying our family set it up, etc. etc. etc. It became apparent that the little girl's problem was not only hers. The parents were a big part of the problem. This kid went on to other problems. Threatening us, (okay, now she was a big 14 year old) was one of them, when we finally had to call in the cops.

Your little thief is responsible for majorly illegal activity, credit card fraud, and calling in Mommy might only put gasoline on a fire. I would talk to the BO/BM, however. Thiefs and frauds should not be on the personnel roster. As a BO I would want to know.

Call her on it, demand your cash back, press charges if you feel so inclined or get no satisfaction, but get her out. IF you choose not to press charges, threaten her with pressing charges if you see her near your horse or property again.

You have a CRIMINAL there.

Applesauce

Nov. 4, 2007, 08:22 AM

You know what everyone? The OP has made her mind up. In fact I got a snarky PM from her saying what I said about most police depts taking reports over the phone is flatly untrue.

Funny. I was a police officer for over 13 years. My husband is currently a police officer. The jurisdictions where we work take reports like this over the phone all the time and in fact they have just started a system where you fan file reports online. In her case her jurisdiction does not offer this which is a shame but to be basically called a LIAR by her, quite frankly pissed me off.

So, she posted here for advice. She got plenty of it but chose to go against the marjority of us and do things in the way she sees best and then got quite defensive and snarky about it in the process.

So like most everyone else on here we all wanted to be sure that we don't potentially hire someone that may have criminal tendencies. What can we do to protect ourselves? Do thorough backgrounds when we hire people and check their references.

In the mean time probably just as well we leave this one alone.

At1Dressage85

Nov. 4, 2007, 08:48 AM

I too got a very nasty "you're late to the party, I've made up my mind now butt out" PM from the OP. I wasn't even saying whether or not I thought she should contact the police or not :lol: So, sounds like she wants us all to drop it and to NOT offer our opinions. She has made up her mind, has snapped at me privately like a junk yard dog, when all I did was post my opinion on what I would do in a given situation (tell the BO which she did...). Anyways, if she doesn't want our opinions, we shouldn't give them to her. :winkgrin:

jn4jenny

Nov. 4, 2007, 08:56 AM

For someone who seems so concerned about the time it takes to file a police report, the OP sure has a lot of time to type out snarky PM's. Jeez OP--if you don't like how you've been treated, take a one-week break from COTH until you're over the snark. Since when did you become the Manners Police?

For the record, I filed a police report just a few months ago when some teens pranked my car and did some minor body damage to it. I am happy to report that it took a mere FIVE minutes.

saddleup

Nov. 4, 2007, 10:43 AM

Couldn't she just close this thread if she doesn't want our opinions ?

Stacie

Nov. 4, 2007, 10:53 AM

I have reasons to believe that this is likely the perpetrators first such act.

Felony credit card fraud is one h*ll of a first act.

Pharma Chick

Nov. 4, 2007, 01:07 PM

You people have wasted a lot of time and enery on the OP. She doesn't have "time" to file a police report but has spent days responding to your replies. It sounds like she needs a friend. She knew most of us would tell her to do the right thing and file a police report, yet she never intended to do the right thing out of sheer laziness. Having been the victim of credit card and auto theft, I never thought twice about pressing charges against the criminals. It is not your problem or my problem if these criminals come from bad situations or grew up in dysfunctional homes. It does not give them the right to harm other people. There is help available for those who chose to get help.

Until the OP suffers some real loss from a criminal, she will continue to not have a clue. Ok, I"ve wasted enough time on this thread. Time to go for a ride..... Have a great day!

hundredacres

Nov. 4, 2007, 01:41 PM

And the shriller you all get, the more sure I am of my own course. At this point, only dogs can hear some of these posts. Dang.

I actually love this last part. It made me laugh loudly and then I had a couging fit. Excellent points made all around thats for sure!

Platinum Equestrian

Nov. 4, 2007, 01:45 PM

You need to report her to her boss - she stole from you, whether you lost the card or not. If you don't, its a great disservice to yourself and others at the barn.

Applesauce

Nov. 4, 2007, 02:20 PM

You need to report her to her boss - she stole from you, whether you lost the card or not. If you don't, its a great disservice to yourself and others at the barn.

Platinum: She did and the girl got fired. For personal reasons she has chosen, at this point, not to file a police report.

MacknCody

Nov. 4, 2007, 02:55 PM

Hey I got a nasty PM too! Hmmm..... well back to watching Fraiser. :D

silver2

Nov. 4, 2007, 02:59 PM

It becomes 'piling on' when you insult me and impugn my motives. As opposed to saying, as many have, "I disagree with what you have chosen to do and here is why."
Unhappy Alter, it sounds like you are a relative newcomer to the horse world as a non-owner? I think that people are a little frustrated with your apparent naivete because this kind of sociopathic behavior (and that's what this is) is SO common. We've all watched trusting people, like yourself, get ripped off over and over again and then turn around and defend the perpetrators. Clients tend to be very loyal to their barns and to people they perceive as more knowledgeable about horses than they themselves are, sometimes beyond the bounds of sanity. Remember there's no such saying "as honest as a horse trader".

This time it was an assistant trying to rip you off for $500, next it'll be paying your I-love-her-like-a-sister-trainer $25K for a navicular lesson horse or, god forbid, buying a Gypsy Vanner ;)

btw, I can file police reports online in my podunk town.

Candle

Nov. 4, 2007, 10:55 PM

I really agree with you. It does not sound like she is the career criminal people are making her out to be. She didn't go into your purse and steal the card. Sounds like she found it and got tempted. She didn't even know how to go about it right. And furthermore, she didn't "get away" with her crime. She got caught. And humiliated no doubt.

I am with you UnhappyAlter and think you are probably giving a young girl a second chance at getting her act together.

I have found more than my fair share of credit cards in various places that the owner has forgotten about in my fairly short time on this earth. Not ONCE have I been in ANY way tempted to do ANYTHING except call the number on the back of the card, explain that I found the card, where I found it, and they should notify the owner after canceling it, because I had no idea where the card had been before I found it. Does it take 15 or 20 minutes out of my day to do this? Yes. Is it the right thing to do? Yes. I don't know how long you've been here on COTH, but if you post looking for people who will pat you on the back and tell you not to stand up for yourself, regardless of the problem, well, maybe you ought to re-think that plan.

ESG

Nov. 4, 2007, 11:11 PM

Okay - I said I was through with this thread several pages ago. Goes to illustrate my lack of self control.

I think the OP is just incapable of admitting that she's not the great judge of character that she claims. She trusted someone untrustworthy, and is unable to come to terms with the fact that she got fooled. That is understandable; no one likes to know that their trust has been misplaced. What is not understandable is why she now seems compelled to attack the very people she came to for advice. Nor does she seem capable of grasping the concept that this thief will steal again, despite what she believes. Bad form, IMO. One's chagrin at being deceived shouldn't negate one's moral obligation to see that a criminal is prevented (or, at least, deterred) from commiting future crimes. And certainly doesn't give one a pass to castigate commentators on this thread via PM. A sad, sad human being, IMO. :no:

Huntertwo

Nov. 5, 2007, 07:54 AM

I have found more than my fair share of credit cards in various places that the owner has forgotten about in my fairly short time on this earth. Not ONCE have I been in ANY way tempted to do ANYTHING except call the number on the back of the card, explain that I found the card, where I found it, and they should notify the owner after canceling it, because I had no idea where the card had been before I found it. Does it take 15 or 20 minutes out of my day to do this? Yes. Is it the right thing to do? Yes. I don't know how long you've been here on COTH, but if you post looking for people who will pat you on the back and tell you not to stand up for yourself, regardless of the problem, well, maybe you ought to re-think that plan.

Exactly... It takes A LOT of #alls to take a credit card, especially when you know the person and try to take advantage of the situation.

Heck, I've found my share of nice jewerly at work - In the ladies room, on the floor, in the gym. Yeah, I could have kept it, but chose instead to bring it to the front desk lost and found.

This girl knew exactly what she was doing and didn't give a damn about you or anyone else she hurts in the future. :no:

And if I read correctly, she SAID she threw the card in a dumpster? Yeah, right!

trubandloki

Nov. 5, 2007, 10:21 AM

Hey I got a nasty PM too! Hmmm.....

Gosh, I feel left out, I have not gotten any nasty PMs.

Felony credit card fraud is one h*ll of a first act.

That was my thought exactly!

This was a pretty serious first step if it was the first step. Which I hardly believe. It is like the pregnant 16yo who insists she only did it once.

myalterisinmyotherpants

Nov. 5, 2007, 12:34 PM

This is such a needless train wreck.

The OP was already a victim once, and now this.

And for those of you persevorating about being able to file on line, go ahead and ask the specific counties whether you can.

Applesauce

Nov. 5, 2007, 02:48 PM

We aren't the ones that turned it into a train wreck. The OP was the one snarking at our replies, advice and opinions.

slc2

Nov. 5, 2007, 03:19 PM

Most likely, the person was planning to use the credit card and then leave town. Alot of people do that, they do some crime like that and leave town. What starts out as 'stupid' winds up as 'we can't catch her because we can't find her'. Goes to new town, new name, etc. Easy to get new driver's license, passport, social security cards.

A pitiably small number wind up at Bates Motel, unfortunately.

Many people in the horse world have a criminal past, just as in all areas of life where money is involved and there is no license, certification or any sort of control or documentation at all.

THere is, in fact, a very long and rich history of criminals getting attracted to various riding activities, because of that.

Some years ago back east, I asked around about a new trainer in town. Got a call about 5 hrs later - the person had been in another town far away, and had crashed their employer's car, gone to court, agreed to pay for the about 5000 dollars of damage - and taken off, landing in our town. The caller asked me to help them find the person so that they could get their money. They had 3 detectives and a private investigator. The person they 'had trusted' and liked had ripped them off. In fact, had lived in their home, cried on their shoulders, and been left alone with their children, their money and their horses, cars and property. None of which was a terribly good idea.

Not a real uncommon story, but especially sad because the person was young, and many people wanted to 'explain to her what she had done wrong', and 'give her some guidance' and 'help her'. In fact, she had a long criminal record and had been doing things like that for many years to many people, all of whom 'did not want to cause trouble'. She in fact had a very long history of bursting into tears and telling all about her family problems when caught red-handed, and had never been charged.

Being involved in riding and having a job that does not involve a license or any sanctions attracts certain people.

I have had riding lessons from a number of 'graduates of the Spanish Riding School, Vienna', 'students of Georg Wahl', as well as 'Olympic team members', 'National champions', and a host of other fraudulent-background individuals, all of whom had very shady pasts, some of whom had criminal pasts. All their references and history were fabricated.

~Freedom~

Nov. 5, 2007, 06:55 PM

I have had riding lessons from a number of 'graduates of the Spanish Riding School, Vienna', 'students of Georg Wahl', as well as 'Olympic team members', 'National champions', and a host of other fraudulent-background individuals, all of whom had very shady pasts, some of whom had criminal pasts. All their references and history were fabricated.

Serious question here. If you had "lessons" from fraudulent " instructors" just how valid does your present knowledge become.:confused:

Most people base what they know or teach on what they were taught so if that imparted knowledge was unfounded or lacking validation in some way does that not make anything you know as tainted?

Sithly

Nov. 5, 2007, 10:55 PM

Clients tend to be very loyal to their barns and to people they perceive as more knowledgeable about horses than they themselves are, sometimes beyond the bounds of sanity.

I have also observed this phenomenon; it's like hero worship. There are a few people at my barn I'd like to shake some sense into. Having skill with horses is a good thing, but it sure doesn't make you a good person.

In an ideal world, a situation like this would be a lesson learned for the OP, but.... :rolleyes:

PonyHunterz

Nov. 15, 2007, 06:01 PM

cowgirljenn

Nov. 15, 2007, 07:29 PM

I know the OP has made up her mind - so this post isn't for her. It is for anyone else who finds themselves in her position one day and are not sure about filing a report.... here's my story.

I had what I thought was a dear, dear friend. We hung out together, went places, shared stuff, etc. I thought we were close. She stole from an organization I was very involved with (not the rescue). Before the organization discovered the theft, she left (and cut her ties with most of us who were involved).

When the org. discovered what she had done, I was very upset. Here was someone I had liked a lot, trusted, considered a good friend. And she had stolen from an organization I held very dear. I was angry, too, of course. I talked carefully to the leaders of the organization about filing a police report - I was really torn up about it. I did not want to ruin her life nor cause her family heartache or pain. HOWEVER I did not want her to do something similar to another organization. In the end, I agreed that the org. should file a police report.

Because she had no previous record and was a well-respected member of the community, she was able to make a plea bargain. She suffered a good bit of embarrassment and I do believe she learned her lesson. I think what she did was a serious lapse in judgment - but I decided the org. had a moral duty to report it. If they hadn't, she may have realized it was easy to get away with and done it again.

So for the rest of you - stand up for yourself and society. It may be an emotionally difficult decision to make, but it is the right one.

JustJump

Nov. 15, 2007, 07:30 PM

I feel stupid for misplacing the credit card, which is not something I normally do. But I am more appalled that this person was so willing to steal, and now I think there's no way I shouldn't tell the barn manager.

Barn manager?:eek: This is one for the POLICE! There are too many honest working students around to waste space in the barn aisle on one who would STEAL. OUT she goes, let the law and your credit card company take it from here, and let it be a lesson to her.

Adamantane

Nov. 25, 2007, 02:22 AM

Oh, to have been following this thread from the beginning...

I know it's moot, OP, but it sounds to me as if the question from the outset that separated the goats from the sheep on this would have been "What are you trying to accomplish? (Actually this in the context of what you're willing to pay to accomplish it. Not everyone is a crusader like Javaert or Gerard.)

Depending upon whether the goal is justice and restitution, retribution, future deterrence, isolating the perpetrator from the potential victim pool, rehabilitation, or probably a few others, the direction to achieve it may vary. No wonder the law is confused, since what influences the often self-contradictory makeup of the criminal justice system is a mishmash of these sometimes conflicting goals.

Seems like a pretty cynical, calculated high-dollar crime to me. Disposing immediately of the no-longer functioning but still incriminating stolen card in a dumpster like that certainly has the feel of a practiced strategy, even if stealing from someone you know, in a way virtually guaranteed eventually to be traced is either stupid or self-destructively intentional.

It does sound as if the OP may have been unsure at the outset but on some level was hoping for public ratification of a choice to be lenient and avoid involvement of the law.

You need to set boundaries when someone seems to lack the will or sense on their own. For myself, I'd have filed the report, shared the information around.

Sociopaths are charming manipulators. It must difficult to believe that this attractive likeable person is a thief. The impulse is to want to believe she must not be.

Fooling (i.e., making fools of) people is a cottage industry among people lacking a conscience, as clearly this young woman lacked one when she chatted away while secreting the stolen card. Con men/women and other sociopaths count on that whenever they try to game the system, and whenever they get caught. All too often it works for them, as it appears likely to have worked here.

ayrabz

Nov. 25, 2007, 02:23 PM

Unhappy Alter:

I'm not one to post often, or 'follow a pack'. And I tried to read each of your posts with an open mind, and found you concerned, kind, and truly wanting to do what you thought was best.

But, I have never felt more qualified to post on someone else's thread here on COTH before. I hope you'll give a listen.

My trailer was broken into. My tack stolen. While of course I filed a police report, I certainly figured I would most likely not see it again. Sure, I kept an eye on ebay, and called as many tackshops as I could. I was in disbelief when two months later, I actually found 3 of my four stolen items on ebay.
It really shook me...the 'seller' member name was listed as someone in the local area. Further investigation proved even worse. The selling member was someone AT my boarding barn.
As unbelievable as that was....it STILL got worse. Turns out the same barn mate had been asked to leave other barns in the area ---VARIOUS counties !! One had a police report on file and had even named this person as the suspect...and had, once the case was just not being acted upon by the authorities, simply confronted this barn mate with the thefts, and told them to get out. One, told me this person was even employed at their barn for awhile...and 'took them for over $3 grand'.....but that it was SIX YEARS AGO, and they had long ago taken it as a business write off...had an ailing parent, and had no desire to 'chase down so and so' anymore. A state involved tack theft investigator told me of two cases of tack theft in the state MANY counties away over TEN YEARS ago with the same suspect named.

My point? Each time someone made a decision to 'let it go' in some way....and move on. And the thefts continued, and the victims mounded up, year after year.

I too have some compassion, and did worry about this person ....but once more and more became known that this has gone ON and ON.....I realized that compassion was doing them no favors at all. The only lesson learned there, was that crime pays...and no reprocussion for it encouraged more.

And, another point: please know, that filing the police report will NOT guarantee any legal action taken against this person. Even if that was the end you desired (!) it may very well not work out that way. But at the least, and the most important (!!!) it would be an OFFICIAL RECORD of this activity should it happen again. Please reconsider...filing an official police report will not make you a monster, and will not mean you have no concern for the one who made the mistake. It may help make sure a similar one isn't made that COULD then ruin their life.

signed,
a fellow victim

ayrabz

Nov. 26, 2007, 03:28 PM

anyone??
was hoping for some additional comments since this thread had been pretty active.

ayrabz

Lemon Zest

Nov. 26, 2007, 04:06 PM

I too have some compassion, and did worry about this person ....but once more and more became known that this has gone ON and ON.....I realized that compassion was doing them no favors at all. The only lesson learned there, was that crime pays...and no reprocussion for it encouraged more.I wasn't going to add to the thread, so this one is for Ayrabz.

The thought that keeps returning to me is that maybe no one has ever cared enough about this girl to present her with consequences. Discipline, correction, is never easy but it is a hallmark of love and compassion. Parents dread the pouty lip and tears that result from disciplining a child but they do it because they love their children and wish to see them grow wise and safe.

I certainly agree that it would not be pleasant for this girl to face a police report and possible record. Nor is filing one pleasant for the victim. But isn't it worth it if the consequence is such that this girl feels convicted in her heart to pursue a more honest lifestyle? I doubt from the description she's a first time offender, and I doubt forgiveness will influence her differently. It may even confirm an idea that no one really cares about her so it doesn't matter how many people she wrongs. IMO, the compassionate action to take (for both the girl and her potential future victims) is to push charges and hope she learns from the consequences.