Hunter Stallion Suggestions

[monalisa]

I am going to try breeding my fancy WB hunter mare for the second time via embryo transfer.

I bred her to Rio Grande and have a fantastic coming 2 filly on the ground.

The mare is:
* 15'3 and very fancy, full WB (Han/Dutch), registered, has great breeding.
* Has no real faults - moves great, jumps great, has won a lot as a hunter.
* Great mind
* Sound as the come
* Pretty pretty
* Is short coupled and fat, very round, but is put together well.

So I am not really trying to improve, just want to clone her if I could.
My 2 yr old filly is really big, unlike mom, and her only fault so far is that she does not have great front feet - she did not pick this up from her mother. Looks like Rio from the withers back, looks like mom from the neck up. Has a great mind, is very pretty and is a good mover from what we can tell.

I don't want to play Russian Roulette - that is why I picked Rio Grande the first time around. I wanted a PROVEN hunter stallion. I don't care how fancy the stallion is, I want one who has already proven to be a good hunter sire - and not talking about on the line but as a proven performance horse.

I don't like Popeye K as a sire. Have also eliminated Paparazzo (sp?) and only want a full WB. Also eliminated All the Gold first time around.

Any suggestions out there?

[VirginiaBred]

Fabulous stallion, owned by Tish Quirk.

http://www.tishquirk.com/


He is definitely, Just The Best!!!

[monalisa]

Actually I looked at that one last time around too.

[arizonard]

If it were my mare I would try Voltaire or Cassini II (both frozen). Not proven in the sport themselves, but have produced excellent hunters. Do you have a picture of your mare?

You will also likely get the suggestions of Zarr, Chaleon, Westporte, Cunningham, Don Alfredo, and Escapade as they are often recommended on this board. Hope that gives you a few to look into.

[monalisa]

I don't know how to include a photo on this board. Don't you have to be a premium member to do that?

I am looking at Zarr for sure, although I am really a not a fan of Trakenhers. Cunningham is very special (if I could clone him I would) but not crazy about his babies generally speaking, at the least the ones I have seen.

I will look into Escapade, Chaleon, and Westporte. I looked at Don Alfredo earlier.

Many thanks

[VirginiaBred]

Sent you a PM.

[PineTreeFarm]

http://www.usef.org/_IFrames/pointsAwards/points/leadingSires.aspx?year=2007&viewCat=Hunter

Try looking at the leading sires list

[sporthorsefilly]

Three of the top six hunter sires are Holsteiners! Cassini I, sire of one of my favorites, Cunningham, is #2 on the list. Cunningham, who is a stallion, was just approved by AHHA for those who want to be sure of papered foals.

There is also a wonderful line up in Virginia that Diana Dodge has, as well as the gorgeous chestnut TB at My Fox Farm.

Also take a look at Ironman, his offspring are doing well in hunter breeding.

[VirginiaBred]

There is also a wonderful line up in Virginia that Diana Dodge has

Oh you are so right!!!! (where is the slap me upside the head smilie???)

Definitely look at *Nob Hill.

http://www.nokomisfarm.us/id1.html

[baywithchrome2]

I've always admired Cabardino... jump, type and pedigree :D

[hackinaround]

If Frozen is not an issue you cant go wrong with Alla Czar and his offsprings accomplisments.

[sporthorsefilly]

Or if you need fresh, Alla Czar's son Balta Czar.

[genevieveg17]

What about Sir Caletto?

[Hi Jump]

If you were pleased with your Rio Grande filly, you might consider Raffaello, also by Raphael and also selected to the Hanoverian Jumper Breeding Program . 16.3 gray stallion approved by the HAN Verband, AHS, RPSI, ISR OLD, AWR, CSHA, and CWHBA. I invite you to see for yourself;

Raffaello in the Hunter ring http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VDMqSHFVbGM
Raffaello in the Hunter ring http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EPVcYnHMQ8o

Ruffian 3 weeks by Raffaello
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jFJpCglL4jo

Rachel 5 months by Raffaello
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9oAf9ibadhA

Without Question yearling by Raffaello
http://video.google.ca/videoplay?docid=-5471283417106500641&pr=goog-sl

Synergy Sport Horses
http://www.synergysporthorses.net

[risingstarfarm]

Have you considered Pablo or Pablito?

I'd also take a close look at Escudo II - but not sure if he would add height (if that is something that is important to you).

[dbaygirl]

Hi Jump, wow, I love that Ruffian filly by Raffaello. Is she for sale? Do you have recent pictures? How is she turning out?

[HSGF]

How about Jupiter? http://dornataintor.com/stallion.html

[Giddy-up]

I would second Jupiter. I have always liked him & he is also by Zeus (same as Alla' Czar) plus I have heard he tends to not throw huge babies so it could be what you are looking for.

[MagicRoseFarm]

You very much limit yourself if you want "proven hunter sires" .. If you want "proven Hunter Families" you will open up alot of choices for yourself. Our Beste Gold is not old enough to have offspring in the ring other than in hand, and he did/ is doing dressage.. But his family is VERY well established nationally in the 3'6" and 4' hunter arena.. I have too many health issues to jump and he is MY horse..

[ShowjumpersUSA]

Campesino, who is by the same sire as Cassini I & II, is producing foals with beautiful, floating hunter movement. He's available fresh or frozen.

[What the?]

Westporte doesnt have anything showing yet over fences to prove or disprove him as a performance sire, correct?

I dont think that he has anything old enough yet

[libgrrl]

What do folks think of Crown Affair?

He certainly has the pedigree!

[Hocus Focus]

Check out Foxfire Farm's lineup. I have always felt Ariadus was a fine animal. He has very good legs and his offspring are definitely athletes. Prairie Pines Sporthorses in Florida stand a Lemgo son by the name of Lotus T. Although he may not stand at the top of chosen ones on this forum, he has a tremendous natural jumping style and scope. I have known him from the time he was born, and I have seen that his offspring consistently improved the mares, even the best he has bred. He has also been shown and placed well in both hunter and jumper classes. Noone will argue his jumping ability if they have seen him go. Out of a thoroughbred mare himself, he is a large framed stallion with exceptional jumping talent.

Stallions I have met and admired... It is what I see in them as individuals that means more to me than popular appeal.

Check the offspring on this page ...bottom three... each out of very different style mares.
http://www.prairiepinesfarm.com/LotusT.asp

[Harold]

You are offering Campesino fresh cooled??? That's huge news! I thought he was frozen only!

[Hunter_Rider]

I second NOB HILL. I have an 8 month old colt that is going to be fabulous by him. He definately puts correct babies on the ground-and he moves incredible. Capitol Hill has definately proved it this year. Best Young Horse at Devon and Warrenton, and won the Sallie Wheeler.

[Jellybean83]

Westporte www.countrylanewarmbloods.com

None of his babies are old enough to ride yet though.

[Hunter_Rider]

Picture of NOB HILL

[arizonard]

I love Jupiter but I think I would avoid using him if your mare is only 15.3hh, unless you are looking for something smaller.

[ShowjumpersUSA]

You are offering Campesino fresh cooled??? That's huge news! I thought he was frozen only!


He's available fresh cooled and standing right here in Charlotte, NC. :-)

[CrossWinds81]

VOLTAIRE! No question! Talk about marketability too, but not quite so sure how great his frozen semen is. I had one dose left that I was saving for a really special mare...until my mother decided to just 'give it away' !!! :eek:eeeps! I cried!

Cabardino is just lovely too. Coconut Grove has been producing some very very nice babies as well. Not sure if Adelssohn is still around, a friend of mine used to ride at the barn he was at in TX and he was stunning... a grey trakhener by Mendelssohn with the roundest softest jump and beautiful floating movement.

[florida foxhunter]

What about Ragtime?

[fish]

What do folks think of Crown Affair?

He certainly has the pedigree!

Do you have a website or picture?

[EquusMagnificus]

http://www.crownaffair.net/

[fish]

http://www.crownaffair.net/

Thank you :)

P.S. Chandra Boylen mentioned another stallion who was showing in the Amateur divisions at the Capital Challenge. Do you happen to know who that was and if he has a website, too?

[EquusMagnificus]

A friend of mine has a mare in foal to Corlando (http://www.triadfarm.com/Corlando.htm) and she is breeding for Hunters...

I am not sure how he fares as a Hunter sires (my Hunterland knowledge is beyond limited :D) but I think he has a cute jump...

[TWF]

http://www.usef.org/_IFrames/pointsAwards/points/leadingSires.aspx?year=2007&viewCat=Hunter

Try looking at the leading sires list
While referring to the Leading Sire's list is helpful ...it is not a true historic connection to the industry.

The problem with the Leading Sires list is that is was not in existence when some of the legendary hunter sires were actively breeding. There is no official record to construct a list of the Leading Sires prior to the current list which may have begun in 2003. (please correct me). While you can pull up indexes for European sires from decades of records on line; it is a travesty that there is NO American based quantitative HISTORIC list of horses in performance. One glaring problem with the current list; it does not reflect ALL horses in performance..only those currently enrolled in the NGB going to sanctioned shows. Hence the numbers are not reflection of a full sampling of horses shown in the US. Some may stallions produced smaller crops but higher percentages of achievement in their crops. There is currently no way to index that percentage of probability. Most stallions lost their offspring records because the get were re-named or never registered. We have not been good stewards of our breeding legacy. There is no way to trace a horse from foaling to retirement..which is a tragic loss to our breeding achievements...and our true performance bloodlines.

Today in this age of global communication and information we in the US are in the Dark Ages. The Jockey Club demands the ID of each horse that steps on the track and the result is a reliable performance tracking and an aid to making breeding decisions. In the US equine population, there is no statistical data, no reliable sampling or any verifiable analysis available to model sound breeding directives.

With that said....some will argue that leading Sires List is all we have...True... It can be better...the inclusion of EVERY horse shown in the current NGB stats with ONE lifetime number (irregardless of the change of name or ownership) is a start.

As afar as using a proven stallion...I agree with MRF.. I thank her and others who believed in a "warmblood " stallion with a solid performance family years ago...It was long before "warmblood and hunter" were uttered... long before a "brand" was accepted in the hunter ring..long before his get where shown in performance. We all benefited from our faith in our choice...second and third generations babies are showing now...he was a great sire to be sure.

Even if you had a warmblood sire in mind...you should consider Minister General. My favorite Grande son is by him .... "This is It" by Minister General out of Grand Affair by Grande Saber. Winner of his first show at Upperville and 2007 PAHBF Weaning Fururity Grand Champion Weanling, Champion PA bred Weanling, http://jannofarm.com (http://jannofarm.com)
.

[ktm2007]

What about Ragtime?

Lovely stallion, but I have heard that his babies can be a bit tough....anyone have experience with his offspring? (I don't so I'm curious!)

[Fharoah]

How about Hennessey the sire of Zarr and Zealous. http://www.broadhillrunfarm.com/hennessey.cfm

Or check out San Ramiro http://www.capriolefarm.com/stalion_view.php?id=6

Personally my two Dutch/Thorughbred mares have been bred to Alla C'zar for 2008, which I am very excited about!

Good Luck!

[springer]

Or if you need fresh, Alla Czar's son Balta Czar.

I second Balta Czar.

[baywithchrome2]

I second Balta Czar.

I like Balta'Czar a lot. Personally, I think he consistently improves the mares he's put to, but the OP said her mare was short-coupled. Balta'Czar himself is short-coupled and tends to shorten up the mares. I'd look to a stallion with longer lines.

[CBoylen]

P.S. Chandra Boylen mentioned another stallion who was showing in the Amateur divisions at the Capital Challenge. Do you happen to know who that was and if he has a website, too?
The one I mentioned was Ann Misenheimer's Reflection. It shows in the older a/o, and it's the sire of Kenny Wheeler's nice pregreen, Legend.
Kingridge still handles the breeding for Reflection, I think, and her other a/o horse, Tradition.
http://www.kingridgestables.com/horse_search_done.jsp?type=StallionSvc

[showjumpers66]

Apiro or Cabardino

Here are a couple video clips of Apiro just his second time in the hunter ring and first time out with Amateur owner in the AAs. They had a few green mistakes, but we were very pleased with his rounds. He will be doing the 2nd years and Working hunters in 2008.

http://www.silvercreeksporthorses.com/ApiroOFProduction.wmv

http://www.silvercreeksporthorses.com/ApiroHackProduction.wmv

[STF]

Love Apiro!!!

[fish]

The one I mentioned was Ann Misenheimer's Reflection. It shows in the older a/o, and it's the sire of Kenny Wheeler's nice pregreen, Legend.
Kingridge still handles the breeding for Reflection, I think, and her other a/o horse, Tradition.
http://www.kingridgestables.com/horse_search_done.jsp?type=StallionSvc

Thank you.

[ponygirl]

I thought Apiro was going to debut at the Grand Prixs here. Did I imagine that? lol

[ponygirl]

I know what he was doing in Europe, but I swear he was going to go into the Grand Prix ring here in the US when first brought over.

[Carrera]

The one I mentioned was Ann Misenheimer's Reflection. It shows in the older a/o, and it's the sire of Kenny Wheeler's nice pregreen, Legend.
Kingridge still handles the breeding for Reflection, I think, and her other a/o horse, Tradition.
http://www.kingridgestables.com/horse_search_done.jsp?type=StallionSvc

I saw reflection at the Royal Winter Fair before he went to the US. I'm in LOVE with him. Soft, stunning and beautiful... very drool worthy

[ponygirl]

Reflection is by Linaro who stands at Fox Fire Farm. Interesting as a friend of mine breeds hunters. She has a Linaro mare in foal to Chaleon. She has a mare in foal to Cabardino as well.

[Galileo1998]

I have a Rio Grande mare in foal to Westporte for 2008, it's too soon to say for sure what he's going to produce but so far I've been impressed with what I've seen of him and his foals.

My barn owner has a mare in foal to Redwine which he booked after I had the chance to meet Redwine in person and was impressed with his movement, conformation and was blown away by his sweet, easy going temperament.

For 2008 I haven't made all my plans yet, but I do have bookings to Pablo and Apiro already done, with the goal of making fancy hunter babies. I'm pretty sure that I am also going to breed a mare of my own to Redwine and one to Westporte but there is still lots of time for shopping :)

Another stallion to consider is the Trakehner stallion Asher that stands up here in Canada. His oldest crop is just five I think and was very small but he has had LOTS of very successful hunter breeding offspring including winners at Devon, and his oldest foal Ashby was the top Baby Green hunter in Ontario this year.

[Zlotych]

Perhaps you should try contacting Apiro's owners to see what their show plans are, instead of speculating about it here?
Oh, wait... they already posted their plans.

[ponygirl]

That was sort of uncalled for. I have been in contact with Apiro's owners in the past. Obviously the plans have changed.

[Galileo1998]

I'm sure Stacey realizes that that plans change sometimes, in fact I know a couple of times she has mentioned what her breeding plans were, or about mares she was going to buy...and then I've noticed that her plans seem to have changed, so I'm sure she is just not expressing herself very well :yes: unfortunately it sounds a bit like she's snarking at Barb about one of the stallions she manages again which is unfortunate but I'm sure that can't be the case :)

[CBoylen]

I believe he's done the GP's in Europe & is now doing the Pre-Greens here.
I'm just going to hope you meant GP dressage. ;)

[Galileo1998]

He's only seven this year and was imported in early 2007, I'd be surprised if he were doing GP anything as a six year old. I know he was a Bundeschampionat qualifier as a five year old in 2005.

[PineTreeFarm]

He's only seven this year and was imported in early 2007, I'd be surprised if he were doing GP anything as a six year old. I know he was a Bundeschampionat qualifier as a five year old in 2005.

What's the fence height for the 5 yr olds?

[phoebe05]

I would imagine if Apiro did anything more than "qualify" as a 5yr old it would be on his webpage, although an overview each stallions page is pretty detailed as to what they have done and are doing. The plan was for him to be shown eventually in the Grand Prix jumpers in the US. I don't believe he competed at all after he was 5 in Europe.....and the 5 year olds here jump the Level 5's 3'9"-4' spread to 4'6" so my guess is it was something similar....as stated before someone should ask his owner rather than jump to conclusions but I have never seen anything anywhere that said he showed at Grand Prix only that there were plans for him to do so at some point.

[eclipseon19z]

I second Corlando, He does very well producing Hunters as well as jumper. either way i doubt you would be dissappointed. Also you should check out Triad's you up and coming Hunter stallion Black Tie...his first crop of foals are only weanlings but seem to have recieved very good marks at inspections.

[ponygirl]

When I talked to Barb in the past, I know Apiro was starting to jump at the mini-prix level in Europe before import. He was to eventually debut in the Grand Prixs when ready. I guess in the meantime he's hitting the hunter ring. Website basically says that as well. Good for Silver Creek I say. :)

[showjumpers66]

:D Sorry ... just got home from the Royal. Apiro showed a few times in Germany as a 5 year old, qualifying and competing in the Bundeschampionat. He did not show at all as a 6 year old due to legal issues with his owner, but was schooling Grand Prix height (level 7/8) at home and was doing stallion expos where he was jumping 5'6". Our eventual plan is for him to do the Prixs, but for now he is going to do the hunters. Having only been to a few shows ever, Apiro is very green especially having never seen boxes, gates, and flowers that we have in hunter courses in the US so, yes, we did enter him in the pre-greens at two shows. Beginning December, he will be competing in the 2nd year greens which we have confirmed with USEF that he is eligible for.

[showjumpers66]

Apiro made his debut in the 2nd Year Green & Working Hunter rings this week -

http://www.silvercreeksporthorses.com/Video/ApiroWorking1.wmv

[two sticks]

What about Sir Caletto?


I have a 2 yr old by Sir Caletto and he is absolutely my dream horse. Talented & fancy and has been as quiet and easy as they come.

[Samotis]

I have a 15.3 TB mare I bred to Roc USA. I have seen at least 10 of his offspring in person. They have a great canter, and all of them have a nice slow lofty jump. My mare is very short coupled and I would also clone her, but make her a little bigger:) (and no racing!)

He has both hunter and jumper offspring and both are I think 6 as the oldest this year. Some have already won in the jumper championships and the hunters have done quite well too.

My foal is due in Feb., I am hoping it will be as nice as I think it will be!

Good luck. If you need any more info, I have plenty as I did research for a year to find a match for my little mare. (she was also a fancy hunter, but unfortunatly a little fried from the racetrack)

Roc USA is 17 hands and is a Dutch Warmblood (you can get papers with ISR and Old NA) He is dark bay with 4 white socks and a blaze. rocusa.net

I do also love Chaleon, but he is only 16.1, but his offspring have been nice so far.

[can't re-]

Apiro made his debut in the 2nd Year Green & Working Hunter rings this week -

http://www.silvercreeksporthorses.com/Video/ApiroWorking1.wmv

Apiro looks great! Will he be showing this winter?

[keepthelegend]

I just bought a 2 yr old by Converter and he is extremely huntery. I really haven't followed hunter breeding, but bought this horse out of a European show jumping auction and he is a pure hunter. Converter is a 7 yr old by Contender and stands in Ocala

[ponygirl]

I'm confused. Converter is in Ocala? He's owned by P.S

[Foxdale Farm]

Have you ever looked at Holsteiner stallion, Challege? He is a fabulous horse with incredible breeding. I don't know if anyone else on this thread has suggested him, but he's super nice. Here is a link to his page on the website where he is being promoted. There is a great video on the site as well. Good luck! http://www.honahleevet.us/challenge.html

www.foxdalefarm.us

[szipi]

Hi,
You may want to look at Lotus T. He is young to be a "GREAT" hunter sire yet, but proven in the ring and his offspring is still young but have great promise....his first baby is a 5 YO (look up his record, I did some 2nd year-green stuff with him as a 4 YO, but now he's doing CH/AA jumpers and USET classes with his 15 YO rider)...and I sold a good number of his younger offspring to hunter/Jumper pros (Jean Dunford in Va, Rick Dayner in Ocala, Stacy Burt in Ocala etc.). He WILL produce the size, the looks and the jump you want. www.prairiepinesfarm.com

[STF]

I'm confused. Converter is in Ocala? He's owned by P.S
I think she is confusing JY, not understanding she is the agent/semen station on him here in the states.

[Royal Monaco]

How about Sir Wanabi ?

I have seen is first foal crop at the OLD NA inspection in Blainville (Quebec, Canada) and they were all breathtaking premium foals with a lot of presence and movement.

He shows very good form over fences and the judges just loved him in his performance test this fall (even if he got an average score because of an injury just before the finale).

He is located in Ontario (Canada). Here is the link to his website
http://www.laprisestable.com/

I do love Escapade too... but he is only registered with RPSI. Does anybody knows if the breeder plans to register Escapade with OLD NA / ISR ?

[showjumpers66]

Thanks! Yes, he is going to St. Louis and then Gulfport.

Apiro looks great! Will he be showing this winter?

[Fharoah]

Look at Westporte's video
http://www.countrylanewarmbloods.com/stallion.htm

[monalisa]

Westporte is of great interest as a possible hunter sire. I like his size, the fact that he is a Hanoverian (I love the breed) and he is more refined than my mare. He obviously is very talented. I want to learn what he passes on to his offspring.

Would LOVE to hear from some of the breeders. What is his mind like? Are his babies, smart, even tempered, easy to work with? That is of great importance to me if the baby is to be an amateur horse. (I am breeding for myself, not to sell) That is one reason that I selected Rio Grande the first time around. My mare has the best disposition - could not possibly improve on it. Want to keep that intact.

Thanks for the help, would love to have some PMs from current owners of Westporte babies - want to hear the good, the bad, the ugly...................