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Selleconn
Oct. 28, 2007, 11:48 AM
http://www.dressagedaily.com/2007/dd_200710/dd_20071027-floriano.html

I'm curious as to what kind of financial deal would have been involved with showing only one horse? A salary comparable to what he could make showing/training for all of his other clients as well? I find this a strange request to ask a top trainer/rider to only ride one horse, but if they were going to pay him appropriately I guess it could have been a pretty sweet deal.

Coreene
Oct. 28, 2007, 12:40 PM
As there always two sides to a story, I would be interested in what the Browning's reasoning is.

vagabondrider
Oct. 28, 2007, 04:41 PM
Does this mean he also doesn't have San Rubin anymore? Or did the Brownings' son already take over the ride on that horse?

STF
Oct. 28, 2007, 07:17 PM
:(

AllWeatherGal
Oct. 28, 2007, 08:09 PM
Does this mean he also doesn't have San Rubin anymore? Or did the Brownings' son already take over the ride on that horse?

And if that's the case, did they take that horse with them, too? Sounds like the Brownings have left Peters' barn altogether.

Hazelnut
Oct. 28, 2007, 08:34 PM
Just glad I got to see the pair at the 2007 World Cup. The GP ride was goosebump material.

Gucci Cowgirl
Oct. 28, 2007, 08:35 PM
How about we not jump to conclusions and instead, take things at face-value?

STF
Oct. 28, 2007, 09:40 PM
:(

Gucci Cowgirl
Oct. 28, 2007, 09:47 PM
You obviously have not met Steffan...And BTW, I have read 2 or 3 articles he has been interviewed in in the past, which clearly give credit to Flori's original owners/sponsors...

There are 2 sides to every story, just as there are some things that seem like big, nasty dramas on the surface, when in reality they're no big deal, and everyone's doing just fine.

STF
Oct. 28, 2007, 09:49 PM
:(

Pommederue
Oct. 28, 2007, 09:57 PM
I wonder if Guenter will take over the ride?

Gucci Cowgirl
Oct. 28, 2007, 10:15 PM
There are things you dont know GC, thats all I can say..........




No kidding, there are LOTS of things I don't know...any tips for memorizing solubility rules?

I'm just saying, 9 times out of 10, the conclusions people jump to initially (myself included) are usually nowhere near reality.

And, if you had spent any time with the man, you would be very hard pressed to believe he deliberately lies about Flori's past as you have stated....If it was such a big deal, why hasn't Melanie tried harder to get "the truth" out in public?!

I really don't want to get into this, but I am just saying that none of us hardly ever know both sides of the unbiased truth....

Spectrum
Oct. 28, 2007, 10:27 PM
There are things you dont know GC, thats all I can say..........


Yes, I quite agree.

I think it's very interesting how the horse's training history has been completely misrepresented. Not many people actually know that Floriano was previously scoring in the 70's at Grand Prix (at Del Mar, no less) with the Pais' former trainer, which was why Stefan was able to step in so neatly and qualify for the Olympics such a short time after getting the ride. The Pais' head trainer at the time worked with them to pick out Floriano and Gucci.

If you read Stefan's version of history in various articles, he would have you believe he took a horse completely unconfirmed at FEI and magically transformed it into an international horse overnight. It would be an wonderful, heart-warming story if it was actually true.

Spectrum.

Mary in Area 1
Oct. 28, 2007, 11:30 PM
I don't know anyone involved personally, but I DID know that Steffan was NOT Floriano's original trainer. I must have read it somewhere.

So, who WAS the "Pais' head trainer"? How can we be impressed by someone even you don't name?

Hazelnut
Oct. 29, 2007, 08:20 AM
Its not as if Steffen Peters took over the ride and the horse went to hell in a hand basket...;)

Who knows why things are "marketed" the way they are...the new owner's desire for "credit", the writers slant, or a general desire to solidify the current horse and rider team in the judges/public's mind...

or just poorly managed communications and expectations.

OR perhaps it the phenomenan that no one is ever happy when they sell something of value...it is not unusual to feel "ripped off" or as if one is not treated quite right.

egontoast
Oct. 29, 2007, 08:58 AM
As some one else said, why is no one naming the PAi's rider here? Here's a chance to give some credit to the person but there is no name given???

Hazelnut
Oct. 29, 2007, 09:16 AM
In 2004 Steffen Peters rode Floriano when he was owned by Melanie Pai. She is listed as the owner in Peters' Olympic profile in 2004.

In 2005 there is a story about the Brownings purchasing Floriano from Melanie Pai mentioning that Peters will keep the ride.

So unless Melanie Pai bred him or trained him it seems she is getting credit for importing and owning him (which is a very behind the scenes place to be once ownership changes).

egontoast
Oct. 29, 2007, 09:30 AM
Not many people actually know that Floriano was previously scoring in the 70's at Grand Prix (at Del Mar, no less) with the Pais' former trainer,

What was the rider's name? Just curious.

shadowdancer
Oct. 29, 2007, 10:03 AM
Pam Grace trained Floriano to Grand Prix.

Hazelnut
Oct. 29, 2007, 10:50 AM
Home not feeling well - surfing web for entertainment....
Paraphrased from Pam Fowler Grace's web site. Pam brought Floriano back from Germany (owned by Melanie Pai) and showed him in the 2003 season at the GP. He got scores into the 70th percentile. "He then went on to be chosen" as an alternate for the USET for the 2004 Olympics.

The site does not not state who trained the horse to GP or at what level the horse was schooling when he was purchased. The site also does not say that Pam had the ride on Floriano when he was chosen as an alternate for the Olympics.

STF
Oct. 29, 2007, 11:16 AM
:)

AllWeatherGal
Oct. 29, 2007, 11:17 AM
How about we not jump to conclusions and instead, take things at face-value?

What kind of conclusions do you think people are jumping to? Maybe I'm not very good at reading between the lines?

My speculations are based one experiences with the Brownings, not Peters.

SGray
Oct. 29, 2007, 11:28 AM
pretty sure he was imported in 2002 at the age of 12 and was trained to GP when brought in

SGray
Oct. 29, 2007, 11:38 AM
Peters has had the ride since at least 12/2003

http://www.dressagedaily.com/2003/dd_200312/dd_20031214.html

Spectrum
Oct. 29, 2007, 01:34 PM
Actually, I am fairly sure the horse was only trained to PSG when Pam started riding him. She rode and showed Gucci and Floriano for some time in Germany (under the Pais' ownership) as well.

Spectrum.

EqLuvr
Oct. 29, 2007, 01:41 PM
I think it sux that they picked Floriano up at the fairgrounds after they evacuated from the fire. That is rotten.

Hazelnut
Oct. 29, 2007, 01:46 PM
I think it sux that they picked Floriano up at the fairgrounds after they evacuated from the fire. That is rotten.

That's true, seems that way...but dealing with the smoke and charred smell can be very difficult. Once the fire's out, the mop up can take weeks. Maybe all parties wanted to reduce the stress of moving back to that environment and then moving the horse yet again.

Of course Floriano is used to traveling.

SGray
Oct. 29, 2007, 02:04 PM
"In 2002, while shopping for horses in Germany, Carla Symader and Ralf Isselhorst showed Melanie, the now famous Floriano. “Even though he never really competed, I knew the moment I saw Floriano finish his demo ride that he had Olympic potential. In the cross ties, I fell in love with him, and I purchased him on the spot. "

http://www.horsesdaily.com/market/sales/canaan/5.html

Spectrum
Oct. 29, 2007, 02:12 PM
"In 2002, while shopping for horses in Germany, Carla Symader and Ralf Isselhorst showed Melanie, the now famous Floriano. “Even though he never really competed, I knew the moment I saw Floriano finish his demo ride that he had Olympic potential. In the cross ties, I fell in love with him, and I purchased him on the spot. "

http://www.horsesdaily.com/market/sales/canaan/5.html

Yeah... Uh, are you reading the same thing I am? If you add in the missing fact that Pam was the rider trying out the horses for Melanie (who do you think she was watching??) this is completely accurate.

And saying a horse has Olympic potential and saying he's trained to GP are not the same thing.

Do you really think an international horse showing successfully at GP would be imported into the US without anyone hearing about it until it started showing in Olympic qualifiers?

Spectrum.

Dressage62
Oct. 29, 2007, 02:15 PM
Always keep in mind that writers do not always correctly list facts about horses and riders....also, sometimes editors change paragraphs for space or other reasons, and change the meaning in a story.

Mardi
Oct. 30, 2007, 03:39 AM
just found it curious that it mentioned that Steffen's barn got an evacuation order before Guenter, and so by the time Guenter was suppose to go, the fairgrounds were full.

The entire area got the evacuation order at the same time....about 6:30 - 7 am Monday morning ( I heard it on the radio)...the area includes BOTH Steffen's and Guenter's barns and many many others.....so apparently Guenter simply didn't get the news when many others did.

The fairgrounds said they were full at about 11:00, but took in a few more in the early afternoon...

anyway...glad everyone is safe.

By the way...do we know where Floriano went ? (or did I miss that)

slc2
Oct. 30, 2007, 08:15 AM
This whole this is absurd, STF, and you of all people, should know better. I think the 'special' secret knowledge yuo claim to have about this situation is pretty damned distorted - you also don't have the guts to come out and SAY what you know - except in PM's, I would wager - I'm not really sure you have an inside line to all of Steffan Peter's dirty laundry, in any case.

Almost every competition horse at GP that is alive today, was trained by several people - even your beloved Rocher, people, was 'mostly trained' if you want to put it that way (it would be absolutely absurd to look at it that way, but go ahead if you must), long before George Williams got her. Most of these horses are sold several times with different people breaking them, taking them to 2nd or 3rd level, taking them to PSG, and taking them to GP. It's impossible to say 'so and so trained him!' and pointless.

I DO know a trainer who claimed to have trained a horse to GP, and I know one who claimed to have trained a horse to PSG, too. However, these riders were not exactly of Steffan's calibre, NOR were they the calibre of the other people involved. They were locals who had to do that in order to legitimize themselves - the people involved here HARDLY have that need.

This is the NORM, folks. Come on guys, even our own Peron was offered for sale as a greenie at an auction here, and wound up going to several people before Michelle got him.

Generally, no one single person trains ANY of these top horses. It's just about impossible to do that. A breeder sells the horse and their journey starts from there. Each person along the way spots something in the horse and does whatever their resources allow them to do.

The other trainer had her hands on the horse for a while, sure, and it was most likely SHE who spotted the horse's potential and helped him along that road. She is to be commended - to sit here and say 'Steffan trained him! No! the other trainer trained him!' is ridiculous.

Just like the human student, the horse moves along on a journey, with different trainers and people contributing along the way. We have a trainer here who takes horses off the race track and gives them some basic training - one was purchased by a top international eventer, and went on to a great career. I asked why the trainer why he didn't keep the horse, if he was so obviously great. Answer, he didn't have the money to compaign the horse at a higher level, or the knowledge. He passed the horse along to someone who COULD! It's not just about money and resources - the rider who's already competed internationally has a better chance of breaking through with an unknown like Floriano. It's a good choice - though I also like it when someone gives a less famous. well known trainer a shot too. It's a calculated risk, but really helps to develop dressage in our country. Still no one can make that choice but the horse's owner.

And as if - AS IF - it's easy to take a horse from PSG to Grand PRix, and AS IF that diminishes Steffan Peter's ability in any way. Even just the suggestion that it's simple and easy to take a horse that's hardly been shown on the international scene from PSG to GP - good god. This has just GOT to be another BB myth! That it's easy to take a PSG horse with very little exposure, and get him to where he's competiing internationally at GP! Lord.

As far as trying to second-guess what happened with Steffan and Floriano's owners based on some ridiculous second hand gossip, and twitter and gossip about it on a bulletin board - what a waste of time.

This whole thing is absurd. Seems like you people are desperately trying to find SOMETHING, ANYTHING, to gossip about! Now that Cobygate is a distant, long ago memory, what WILL you all do with your time!

Hazelnut
Oct. 30, 2007, 08:45 AM
This whole thing is absurd. Seems like you people are desperately trying to find SOMETHING, ANYTHING, to gossip about! Now that Cobygate is a distant, long ago memory, what WILL you all do with your time!

Thanks for joining in with the local BB gossipers and letting us know how it really is!

This discussion came to light due to a press release and statement by Steffen Peters regarding his resigning the ride on Floriano, an item of interest to the dressage community...It may very well affect the USA team at the next Olympics. Quite civilized to date.

ESG
Oct. 30, 2007, 10:38 AM
I think the horse was already trained to the highest level when Melanie bought him and Pam took over the ride.
And yes, its stated about the transaction, but then again, there is a LOT that is not posted or known. Anyway, I dont trust SP further than I can throw him!

While I agree with you about Floriano's level of training when imported, I don't think it's SP, or his word, that isn't trustworthy. You have to go a bit further back in Floriano's history to find that person/those persons. :winkgrin:

STF
Oct. 30, 2007, 10:46 AM
This whole this is absurd, STF, and you of all people, should know better. I think the 'special' secret knowledge yuo claim to have about this situation is pretty damned distorted - you also don't have the guts to come out and SAY what you know - except in PM's, I would wager - I'm not really sure you have an inside line to all of Steffan Peter's dirty laundry, in any case.

Susan, when the truth finally does come out, you can appologize them. ;)

egontoast
Oct. 30, 2007, 10:49 AM
I'm not really sure you have an inside line to all of Steffan Peter's dirty laundry


I'm appalled that you would dredge up the infamous pointy underwear incident, slc. Pot/kettle!! SHAME!

Bogey2
Oct. 30, 2007, 10:54 AM
Actually I trained Floriano, I did not want anyone to know because I am way too busy to take on any more business......so SP did me a favor and kept quiet about it.:winkgrin:

egontoast
Oct. 30, 2007, 10:59 AM
As far as trying to second-guess what happened with Steffan and Floriano's owners based on some ridiculous second hand gossip, and twitter and gossip about it on a bulletin board - what a waste of time.



Why are you here, then, reading and commenting on it?

It's not even Sunday!:)

claire
Oct. 30, 2007, 11:19 AM
So, it's ok to to slam George Morris with your "inside knowledge" version of what happened with the poling incident:

slc2 (http://www.chronicleforums.com/Forum/member.php?u=104474)
Schoolmaster
Join Date: Jan. 3, 2000
Posts: 16,542
http://www.chronicleforums.com/Forum/images/icons/icon1.gif
"yeah, being able to justify so easily, staking a horse over a jump with a metal jump pole, and having it die on his watch, that disillusioned me too. i'm surprised he has the gall to talk about being disillusioned. what's his version? someone didn't feel like riding after their horse got staked in a riding lesson?"


But STF is "absurd" to say in her OPINION she does not respect how SP didn't give enough credit to Floriano's previous owner? :confused:


This whole this is absurd, STF, and you of all people, should know better. I think the 'special' secret knowledge yuo claim to have about this situation is pretty damned distorted - you also don't have the guts to come out and SAY what you know - except in PM's, I would wager - I'm not really sure you have an inside line to all of Steffan Peter's dirty laundry, in any case.

egontoast
Oct. 30, 2007, 11:25 AM
WOW!:eek:

claire
Oct. 30, 2007, 11:29 AM
WOW!:eek:

Just trying to understand what makes one post absurd and the
other ok? :confused:

Sonesta
Oct. 30, 2007, 11:36 AM
removed

Dussel
Oct. 30, 2007, 11:46 AM
Wow....You are all very busy!!!!!

AnotherRound
Oct. 30, 2007, 11:55 AM
Looks to me like someone is way over their personal limits. :eek:

dutchmike
Oct. 30, 2007, 01:37 PM
So, it's ok to to slam George Morris with your "inside knowledge" version of what happened with the poling incident:

slc2 (http://www.chronicleforums.com/Forum/member.php?u=104474)
Schoolmaster
Join Date: Jan. 3, 2000
Posts: 16,542
http://www.chronicleforums.com/Forum/images/icons/icon1.gif
"yeah, being able to justify so easily, staking a horse over a jump with a metal jump pole, and having it die on his watch, that disillusioned me too. i'm surprised he has the gall to talk about being disillusioned. what's his version? someone didn't feel like riding after their horse got staked in a riding lesson?"



SLC can't help herself she hears all these voices in her head.;)

Hazelnut
Oct. 30, 2007, 01:50 PM
Actually I trained Floriano, I did not want anyone to know because I am way too busy to take on any more business......so SP did me a favor and kept quiet about it.:winkgrin:

And you wait till NOW to tell us?;) We'll never get this thread back on track to ask all the really important questions...

Bogey2
Oct. 30, 2007, 01:56 PM
Hazelnut, enough. Not another word on this subject, please. And you know why.:lol:

Hazelnut
Oct. 30, 2007, 01:59 PM
Hazelnut, enough. Not another word on this subject, please. And you know why.:lol:

:sadsmile:OK;)

~Freedom~
Oct. 30, 2007, 08:23 PM
Hazelnut, enough. Not another word on this subject, please. And you know why.:lol:

Yeah because I actually started the horse, Bogey only finished him!;)

Ghazzu
Oct. 30, 2007, 08:31 PM
So, it's ok to to slam George Morris with your "inside knowledge" version of what happened with the poling incident:

slc2 (http://www.chronicleforums.com/Forum/member.php?u=104474)
Schoolmaster
Join Date: Jan. 3, 2000
Posts: 16,542
http://www.chronicleforums.com/Forum/images/icons/icon1.gif
"yeah, being able to justify so easily, staking a horse over a jump with a metal jump pole, and having it die on his watch, that disillusioned me too. i'm surprised he has the gall to talk about being disillusioned. what's his version? someone didn't feel like riding after their horse got staked in a riding lesson?"


But STF is "absurd" to say in her OPINION she does not respect how SP didn't give enough credit to Floriano's previous owner? :confused:

Especially since the rider in question rode with GM the following day on another horse...

petitefilly
Oct. 30, 2007, 08:49 PM
Frankly it does not matter what the particulars are about who trained what or why or when. What does suck is the fact that Steffan is not riding the horse any longer. Some horses click with some riders and the two apart are never quite the same.MHO It might well be that Flori will never be the same without Steffan, and that is a real shame for that horse. In the sunset of his life changing riders in difficult showing environments will indeed be a quite disturbing for him. Horses are not stupid, and are not totally trusting of all riders. This is a shame. Pure and simple.

egontoast
Oct. 30, 2007, 09:28 PM
Hazelnut, enough. Not another word on this subject, please. And you know why

nudge,nudge, wink, wink,say no more!;)

hsheffield
Oct. 30, 2007, 09:55 PM
hey there slc,

well, it may not be common for one person to train a horse from the beginning to GP but it does happen. Michael Barisone trained Neruda from his young horse classes to GP. maybe he's not going to the Olympics, but is doing well enough for a young GP horse. Joe Sandven also trained his young horse champion Rachmaninoff from 4 yo to GP. He's 9 yo and just did his first GP with scores in the 70s.

I know that wasn't your point, but just wanted you know there are Americans training horses from beginning to end!

Hazelnut
Oct. 30, 2007, 11:25 PM
Yeah because I actually started the horse, Bogey only finished him!;)

Well, seek and ye shall find...I knew it was only a matter of time! :winkgrin:

Now we have the full story we can stop all this gossip and twittering and get back to the important job of critiquing top riders around the globe.:cool:

Mardi
Oct. 31, 2007, 12:25 AM
Heeelllllooooooo....

(please note that I'm raising my hand politely)

May I ask again...do we know where Floriano went ? Or was he driven away from the fairgrounds, out the front gate manned by the National Guard, to points unknown ?

fiona
Oct. 31, 2007, 06:11 AM
I heard he's gone to Anky who has taken him on a 3 month intensive Parelli induction course.

Hazelnut
Oct. 31, 2007, 07:52 AM
Heeelllllooooooo....

(please note that I'm raising my hand politely)

May I ask again...do we know where Floriano went ? Or was he driven away from the fairgrounds, out the front gate manned by the National Guard, to points unknown ?

I have not read in any of the accounts where the Brownings have taken him. But they have a farm, so perhaps to their stable?

Dressage62
Oct. 31, 2007, 10:43 AM
I heard he's gone to Anky who has taken him on a 3 month intensive Parelli induction course.
Monty Roberts will be very upset!

Bogey2
Oct. 31, 2007, 04:35 PM
I have it on good authority that Floriano was tired of being upstaged by ...well...you know.;)

eqsiu
Nov. 1, 2007, 01:50 PM
I have it on good authority that Floriano was tired of being upstaged by ...well...you know.;)

Could he not measure up?

Eq3nStar
Nov. 1, 2007, 05:20 PM
Why are you here, then, reading and commenting on it?

It's not even Sunday!:)

MY thoughts exactly... That and, ummmm, Brentina wasn't trained when Debbie got her... But who am I??? Certainly not the great and almighty slick! OK, back to work!

Selleconn
Dec. 3, 2007, 08:12 AM
http://www.dressagedaily.com/2007/dd_200712/dd_20071202-browning.html

kkj
Dec. 4, 2007, 09:28 AM
I am surprised no one on here is outraged by this. Personally, I think it is fine. They own the horse and they are giving him to their son to ride. Floriano is 17 already and has contributed a lot to the sport already. Passing the ride to their son was totally their perogative. However, I found the Dressage Daily article amusing. It was funny how they tried to spin their son into this great young rider. I have never heard of the guy. He is 25 and not some big Courtney King on the cusp of being famous as far as I can tell. I mean if they were looking to give the ride to a talented young rider, it seems like there would be a lot in line ahead of him. I don't know why they just didn't say; He's our son, he's our horse, this is what we are doing. Trying to make it sound like he is a deserving hard working young rider and they will have this bright future together was just silly. I am someone who doesn't think if you have money or a super talented horse you owe it to your country or the sport to pass him on to a great pro rider. I just think you should call it as it is.

inca
Dec. 4, 2007, 11:11 AM
I agree that it is their horse and they can do whatever they want. Just hope they keep the best interest of Floriano in mind.

Will be interesting to see how the show season goes. For the horse's sake, I hope it goes well.

petitefilly
Dec. 4, 2007, 01:11 PM
http://www.dressagedaily.com/2007/dd_200712/dd_20071202-browning.html

LOL Well, now there's the real truth. The son!!!! Why didn't anyone see that coming??? LOL I am sure Steffen saw it. He would have to be stupid not to.

I hope the guy does well on the horse. The horse deserves it.

AllWeatherGal
Dec. 4, 2007, 01:20 PM
LOL Well, now there's the real truth. The son!!!! Why didn't anyone see that coming??? LOL I am sure Steffen saw it. He would have to be stupid not to.

I hope the guy does well on the horse. The horse deserves it.

*raising hand*

My guess is that anyone who knows the Brownings isn't too surprised. And I suspect that the parting of ways preceded the decision with Young Steve.

I didn't know the guy very well, but did get the strong impression that he cared a lot about his horses and doing right by them. He can't help what his mom says in public.

Anselcat
Dec. 4, 2007, 06:18 PM
From the Dressage Daily article: "Laurelyn Browning said she has been keeping the gelding fit and that she and Floriano 'are having a ball. I ride him throughout the mountains and we go for ice cream. He’s seen things he’s never seen before.'"

I don't know any of the people involved, but think it is great they are giving this 17-year-old campaigner a break and taking him for trail rides!

Coreene
Dec. 4, 2007, 06:37 PM
Oh get over it. If he wanted to run barrels on the horse, it's up to him. He doesn't have to be "deserving" or "talented." It's their horse, they can say and do whatever they want. Edited to say that the horse has already done everything. I don't see where the Brownings were nominated to be supplier of talented horses for whatever young rider might ride better than the son.

Ambrey
Dec. 4, 2007, 06:45 PM
I mean if they were looking to give the ride to a talented young rider, it seems like there would be a lot in line ahead of him.


They are interested in letting their son, whom the are proud of, ride their horse. I'd throw a little bragging in if it was my kid, too... just because I could :D

mkatherinepai
Dec. 4, 2007, 07:01 PM
Floriano was bought in Germany as a trained GP horse.!!! He did not show but was loved and trained by one girl. She chose her boyfriend over Floriano so he was sold. (Dad did not like the boyfriend) Floriano came to Canaan Ranch which is owned by Melanie Pai. Pam Grace showed Floriano but she later quit and so Melanie Pai called Steffen Peters (because he did clinics at her ranch) to see Flori. When he rode Flori he said he thought he could take the horse to the Olympics. Steffen needed a horse because Grandure was Not going to make the team. Melanie Pai was excited about the opportunity. Melanie Pai has tried to get the recognition for this horse but Steffen would not give recognition to the owners or the ranch. Read the articles and you will hardly ever see Melanie's name mentioned. I seem to think the most I saw that Steffen would say about Floriano's back ground was that "he found him at some clinic in Texas". There is a nice article written on Dressage Daily about Melanie Pai and Floriano. Also, when the Chronicle of the Horse did the Horse of the year and Rider of the year there was one small paragraph that mentioned her. I hope this helps clear up some of the confussion about Floriano's back ground and his training.

InsideLeg2OutsideRein
Dec. 4, 2007, 08:10 PM
They are interested in letting their son, whom the are proud of, ride their horse. I'd throw a little bragging in if it was my kid, too... just because I could :D

I know, but do they have to do it half a year before the Olympics? Are they thinking that their son will make it to the Olympics that way? I completely see that it's their horse and therefore they can do absolutely whatever they please, but it does seem a little "odd".

Coreene
Dec. 4, 2007, 08:21 PM
I know, but do they have to do it half a year before the Olympics? Are they thinking that their son will make it to the Olympics that way? I completely see that it's their horse and therefore they can do absolutely whatever they please, but it does seem a little "odd".Why is it odd? It's an old horse and the son wants to ride him. They don't last forever. The Brownings have already given much, much more $$ to the US equestrian thang than most. Be thankful for what we've had from them instead of pointing fingers. They owe us nothing.

InsideLeg2OutsideRein
Dec. 4, 2007, 08:53 PM
Why is it odd? It's an old horse and the son wants to ride him. They don't last forever. The Brownings have already given much, much more $$ to the US equestrian thang than most. Be thankful for what we've had from them instead of pointing fingers. They owe us nothing.


I know they don't owe the US Dressage sport anything, (and I'm German anyway), but to have a horse that has done great with Peters and is ready try to qualify for the Olympics, ask the rider to qualify that horse only (a request which they *must* have known he couldn't agree to) and then come up with with "oh, here's my son. we didn't even think of *that* combination before..." Well, it doesn't seem quite real for me. Again, I'm not saying at all they don't have any right in the world to do so. They don't even have an obligation to make anything about their motivation public. I'm just personally IMever-soHO thinking that saying: "ok, this might be a good opportunity for our son to get an Olympic experience, Peters, you're out!", would be more credible to me. Let me say that again MHO only :winkgrin:

InsideLeg2OutsideRein
Dec. 4, 2007, 08:55 PM
oops, doubleposted!

grayarabs
Dec. 4, 2007, 08:58 PM
Was SP intending to make the team with Floriano? Did the B's say they wanted another rider for Flori - individual attenion - to better prepare for trials/games? If Flori really was an Olympic contender it is really sad that SP would not be his rider - and I would have thought another Olympic caliber rider would have gotten the ride on him. I just cannot recall - if Flori was not planned for the O's - then I guess it is fine that the son now gets the ride. I love the horse - really had hoped to see SP ride him and do well in the O's.

SGray
Dec. 5, 2007, 11:06 AM
Floriano was bought in Germany as a trained GP horse.!!! He did not show but was loved and trained by one girl. She chose her boyfriend over Floriano so he was sold. (Dad did not like the boyfriend) Floriano came to Canaan Ranch which is owned by Melanie Pai. Pam Grace showed Floriano but she later quit and so Melanie Pai called Steffen Peters (because he did clinics at her ranch) to see Flori. When he rode Flori he said he thought he could take the horse to the Olympics. Steffen needed a horse because Grandure was Not going to make the team. Melanie Pai was excited about the opportunity. Melanie Pai has tried to get the recognition for this horse but Steffen would not give recognition to the owners or the ranch. Read the articles and you will hardly ever see Melanie's name mentioned. I seem to think the most I saw that Steffen would say about Floriano's back ground was that "he found him at some clinic in Texas". There is a nice article written on Dressage Daily about Melanie Pai and Floriano. Also, when the Chronicle of the Horse did the Horse of the year and Rider of the year there was one small paragraph that mentioned her. I hope this helps clear up some of the confussion about Floriano's back ground and his training.

Thank you for setting the record straight on Floriano's history. I think this may be an area where the USEF/USET Fnd could put in some efforts - in encouraging owners/sponsors, particularly new ones. Making sure those footing the bills and providing the nice horses get the recognition they deserve should be a priority imo.

Mozart
Dec. 5, 2007, 11:47 AM
Olympics Schmolympics. If you were a 17 yr old horse that has trained for most of your life wouldn't you like to spend some time riding in the mountains and going for ice cream? Heck, at this very moment, I would prefer to be in the mountains and going for ice cream!

mkatherinepai
Dec. 5, 2007, 01:47 PM
Thank you for setting the record straight on Floriano's history. I think this may be an area where the USEF/USET Fnd could put in some efforts - in encouraging owners/sponsors, particularly new ones. Making sure those footing the bills and providing the nice horses get the recognition they deserve should be a priority imo.

I think that you are 100% correct. I think that Melanie Pai should get all the recognition that the Browning recieve when she is the one that found the horse and imported him. She spent all the money to have Steffen ride the horse to the position of first alternate on the Olympic team and to go to the World Cup (05).

egontoast
Dec. 5, 2007, 02:15 PM
what is your relationship with Melanie Pai? Can't help noticing you have the same last name.

SGray
Dec. 5, 2007, 02:30 PM
Jane F Clarke; Parry & Peg Thomas; Richard & Jane Brown;...... these have been generous owners for years but the USET Fnd should try to cultivate new owners for future riders/horses -- they are losing opportunities with such as M Pai if they do not

mkatherinepai
Dec. 5, 2007, 02:32 PM
We are very close. It is as if I am her ;) ;) ;)

egontoast
Dec. 5, 2007, 02:54 PM
So are you speaking of yourself in the third person when you say MP should get more credit?

Why not just post in the first person. It would seem less kooky that way.

SGray
Dec. 5, 2007, 03:18 PM
egontoast -- how about a civil 'welcome to the board' for a new member?

egontoast
Dec. 5, 2007, 03:27 PM
It seems odd when someone talks about themselves in the third person especially when they are claiming that their, um, 'friend' ??? :confused: has been hard done by.

My comment was reasonable and courteous so what is your problem, sgray?

There are always at least two sides to every story. There are probably a few sides to this one as well.

mkatherinepai
Dec. 5, 2007, 04:00 PM
I guess you are right but I was not sure how I wanted to handle this. I had to get some advice before I responded to any of this. I was asked to get on this chat room to help clear up the confussion.

J-Lu
Dec. 5, 2007, 04:04 PM
So are you speaking of yourself in the third person when you say MP should get more credit?

Why not just post in the first person. It would seem less kooky that way.

Because the Melanie Pai that I know has no sense of humor, no sense of kookiness, and takes things waaaaaay to seriously to ever stray from the traditional method of posting on a bulletin board. God forbid.

Thus, mkatherinepai must be Melanie's evil twin. Personally, I try to keep my evil twin away from the keyboard as much as possible.

:D

mkatherinepai
Dec. 5, 2007, 04:06 PM
LOL You are right my evil twin got away from me. I will try to keep her locked up better.

Ambrey
Dec. 5, 2007, 04:10 PM
I guess you are right but I was not sure how I wanted to handle this. I had to get some advice before I responded to any of this. I was asked to get on this chat room to help clear up the confussion.

Welcome to the board :) I too found it odd, but as you say it's an odd situation to be in! I know zero of any of this, but thought this was a very nice response instead of being defensive.

mkatherinepai
Dec. 5, 2007, 04:11 PM
Thank you.

egontoast
Dec. 5, 2007, 04:15 PM
True. Evil twins can cause a lot of trouble.;)

It's Ok, it just seemed odd, that's all. :)

mbj
Dec. 5, 2007, 04:53 PM
Congrats and Kudos, M Pai! Good eye and generous pocketbook! I for one am very grateful to you for all you did to make it possible for Floriano to shine and represent the US.
I also have to agree with the posters that said the horse deserves the chance to hack in the mountains and maybe go down a couple levels and be a beloved schoolmaster. The young man sounds more than competent, kind, and works under top trainers. The horse himself has nothing to prove. When you train at the top, the horse has to go for the 10 all the time, even in schooling. Nice for an older horse to get a break!
I don't see why there has to be anything but the horse's best interests involved here.

AllWeatherGal
Dec. 5, 2007, 06:23 PM
The young man sounds more than competent, kind, and works under top trainers.

Worked ... He does not train with Hilda now and there's no mention of who he's going to be working with now that the Brownings are no longer with Peters.


In addition to Gurney, Stephen Browning II was been trained by Peters himself and by Ulrich Kasselman

kkj
Dec. 5, 2007, 06:44 PM
Welcome M Pai.

I think if you own a horse you are free to do with him as you wish as long as it is not abuse. Most horses would love to go on trail rides to the ice cream shop rather then catch a plane to China for the Olympics.


If the Brownings want their son to have a nice internationally successful schoolmaster, that is cool. If he has dreams of winning on him at CDIs, cool. I just thought it was funny how they tried to justify giving him the ride by saying he was this great rider. They probably felt they needed to justify their decision or they are blindly proud of their son's riding accomplishments or something. Who knows. What I do know is he is not some super fabulous FEI rider who was just waiting for that one in a million horse. From what I can tell he is someone who has had access to great instruction and very high quality horses and still has not been a major player even in the amateur ranks in CA. True it is a tough region, but come on. His greatest success this year has been the in hand stuff. Maybe he will go out and kick some butt on Floriano, but I am not holding my breath. Look regardless of how nice the horse is, it is damn hard to ride a internationally competitive Grand Prix test. Plus I also found it weird that the picture of him on Dressage Daily was not a picture of him riding. If he is an accomplished rider, put a picture of him on a horse.

Truth be known, I feel a little sorry for the guy. That is a lot of pressure for a young man with a bad back who is not scoring so well at third level. Best of luck to him.

rutgerjan
Dec. 5, 2007, 07:22 PM
And where is Mister Pai in this whole story ?? Don't this nice man deserve the most credits ?

slc2
Dec. 5, 2007, 07:27 PM
"If the Brownings want their son to have a nice internationally successful schoolmaster, that is cool. If he has dreams of winning on him at CDIs, cool. I just thought it was funny how they tried to justify giving him the ride by saying he was this great rider. They probably felt they needed to justify their decision or they are blindly proud of their son's riding accomplishments or something. Who knows. What I do know is he is not some super fabulous FEI rider who was just waiting for that one in a million horse. From what I can tell he is someone who has had access to great instruction and very high quality horses and still has not been a major player even in the amateur ranks in CA. True it is a tough region, but come on. His greatest success this year has been the in hand stuff. Maybe he will go out and kick some butt on Floriano, but I am not holding my breath. Look regardless of how nice the horse is, it is damn hard to ride a internationally competitive Grand Prix test. Plus I also found it weird that the picture of him on Dressage Daily was not a picture of him riding. If he is an accomplished rider, put a picture of him on a horse.
"

and you wonder why the moderators quit, LOL.

I think the expectations and the disappointment at this young person are out of place. It takes many years, many horses, and a very long time to accomplish such things, much longer than the poster has given this young person - along the way there will be many stumbles too. It also takes proud, loving parents who are willing to back a young person to the hilt, and believe in him 100%, even when things like the above are said in public, by people who are not at all familiar with the process, and are merely watching from the sidelines, and criticizing everyone involved with a very, very broad pen.

Coreene
Dec. 5, 2007, 07:30 PM
I met the Brownings in Aachen in 2005. Very nice people, extremely enthusiastic about the horse and very down to earth. I do not understand where in the article it shows them trying to "justify" an owner riding his own horse. Please, get real.

InsideLeg2OutsideRein
Dec. 5, 2007, 07:51 PM
Worked ... He does not train with Hilda now and there's no mention of who he's going to be working with now that the Brownings are no longer with Peters.


The Dressage Daily article stated Hilda taught him how to post the trot. (I'd think that was earlier in his riding career.)

Looks like he was showing at 3rd level earlier this year.
http://haltsalute.com/archives/20

Third Level Test 3 - Amateur
(C) Sodowsky,
1 Kathy Pavlich Ultimo 70.698%
2 Whitney Harrington Hassan 63.256%
3 Michael Moncreiff Aslan Storgaard 60.233%
4 Melanie Kellner Fuerst Grey 59.302%
5 Karen Drown Corsica 58.140%
Stephen Browning II San Rubin 55.581%
Kelliann Ladd-Gatti Guinnevere 52.093%

AllWeatherGal
Dec. 5, 2007, 07:53 PM
Ach ... people told me the young horse I was buying would be "wasted" on me, that is if I didn't completely ruin her first.

Like someone else told me ... some folks want to buy and drive a Ferrarri, some of us want a really really superduper horse. If we can afford to buy and care for the horse, whose to say we owe the world anything else?

Coreene
Dec. 5, 2007, 07:57 PM
Ach ... people told me the young horse I was buying would be "wasted" on me, that is if I didn't completely ruin her first.

Like someone else told me ... some folks want to buy and drive a Ferrarri, some of us want a really really superduper horse. If we can afford to buy and care for the horse, whose to say we owe the world anything else?You go, girl. :cool:

slc2
Dec. 5, 2007, 08:09 PM
It is no one's business to pick on what level someone rides or what scores they get, or what horse they ride or who pays for it. There is SO much jealousy and picking on anyone who has some opportunities, and so much second guessing of them.

If it was the poster of the above being written about, instead of Browning, I am sure she would resent highly, if someone said the same sorts of things of her.

I hope Browning enjoys the horse immensely, and thoroughly enjoys showing and riding at whatever level he wishes, and that he feels proud of whatever scores he gets and that his family enjoys his riding as well. I think it's great someone can get opportunities and nice horses to ride. It's not so easy to go out there and show and win classes. Anyone here who has gotten those scores at any level always has a lengthy discussion about how happy they are and how much they enjoyed it and always has ample explanation for the score. Quite a double standard, I think.

"Maybe he will go out and kick some butt on Floriano, but I am not holding my breath"

"As long as you are enjoying your horse and your horse is enjoying you it is all good"

-- kkj

mbj
Dec. 5, 2007, 08:11 PM
We buy, raise, compete and sell a few horses, and my favorite buyer for my favorite horses are ammies with deep pockets, kind hearts, good hands and their feet firmly planted in reality. Horses get to have a really nice long life with that sort of owner.

kkj
Dec. 5, 2007, 08:15 PM
and you wonder why the moderators quit, LOL.

I think the expectations and the disappointment at this young person are out of place. It takes many years, many horses, and a very long time to accomplish such things, much longer than the poster has given this young person - along the way there will be many stumbles too. It also takes proud, loving parents who are willing to back a young person to the hilt, and believe in him 100%, even when things like the above are said in public, by people who are not at all familiar with the process, and are merely watching from the sidelines, and criticizing everyone involved with a very, very broad pen.

I know a few people who have made it to FEI with a cheap or homebred horse, not a ton of money and zero parental support. People who can score in the 70s at 3rd level on a much less talented horse. One of these people who has done it on her own and is not so much older than this guy and is winning at FEI in stiff competition. Now to win at International Grand Prix, that is of course a totally different story. That takes a lot of personal money, family money or a good sponser in addition to a lot of talent, the right horse, some good luck etc. I would have nothing against this guy making it there. I don't begrudge the super wealthy who win at international competition. They still have to know how to ride and that to me is all that counts. I don't know how "hard" he has worked or that he "deserves" it however. That seems like a strange justification. I would rather they called it, "He's our son, we love him, we are giving him Floriano." I can't imagine he has worked any harder than a lot of my friends who are quite talented and don't have family money.

I just still take issue with the slant of the article that he is already an accomplished rider. I ride better than that, and I would not expect to be described on Dressage Daily with such enthusiasm. Anyway they don't give any real information on the riding level or accomplishments of the person who is taking over the ride on the Grand Prix horse of the year. They say things like he "deserves" the ride. Why because he is such a phenomenal rider or because he is the owner's son? He is "no novice" to the show ring. Neither are those people who show for 20 years at training level. I just really find the slant funny. He rode (past tense) with Hilda and Stephen Peters. There is either a conscious or unconscious need to justify this guy getting to ride this horse. Floriano is the Browning's horse and I don't think they need to justify it. Trying to make a silly justification however, is unneccessary and insults my intellengence, even as someone SLC accuses of being "not at all familar with the process".

The Brownings probably are very warm, loving people who have done a lot to support our sport. They probably love their son more than anything and would love nothing less than to see him astride one of their horses in international competition. What parent wouldn't want that? I am not saying he won't be able to do that eventually. I am just saying that the article was slanted but amusingly transparent nonetheless.

kkj
Dec. 5, 2007, 08:21 PM
It is no one's business to pick on what level someone rides or what scores they get, or what horse they ride or who pays for it. There is SO much jealousy and picking on anyone who has some opportunities, and so much second guessing of them.

If it was the poster of the above being written about, instead of Browning, I am sure she would resent highly, if someone said the same sorts of things of her.

I hope Browning enjoys the horse immensely, and thoroughly enjoys showing and riding at whatever level he wishes, and that he feels proud of whatever scores he gets and that his family enjoys his riding as well. I think it's great someone can get opportunities and nice horses to ride. It's not so easy to go out there and show and win classes. Anyone here who has gotten those scores at any level always has a lengthy discussion about how happy they are and how much they enjoyed it and always has ample explanation for the score. Quite a double standard, I think.

"Maybe he will go out and kick some butt on Floriano, but I am not holding my breath"

"As long as you are enjoying your horse and your horse is enjoying you it is all good"

-- kkj

slc, you are totally missing my point. I don't care if he just rides the horse at 2nd level and scores in the 50s. Floriano may be happier and last longer that way. Also, if you have the $$$ to buy a million dollar horse and just ride it at training level, cool. I really have no problem with that. I just take issue with that his guy is described as this wonderful rider who will be competing in CDIs next season, "no novice" to the show ring who "deserves" this ride. That is the part I find a little off.

class
Dec. 5, 2007, 08:46 PM
well, who are you exactly to determine who deserves what? in my opinion, anyone who's interested in riding and tries hard "deserves" the most awesome horse they can find. why doesn't this guy?

and if he has shown before, then that would make him "no novice" to the show ring wouldn't it?

so what exactly are you harping on? are you just going on and on because they made him sound like a better rider than you think he is? is that the gist of it? because i am not getting all of this stuff about deserving or not deserving or kicking butt or not kicking butt, accomplished or not so accomplished? i am just trying to see where you are coming from, because from my read it just sounds like petty jealousy. . . and i'm certain that's not what you mean.

pwynnnorman
Dec. 5, 2007, 08:57 PM
Well, for my 2 cents, I think it would have been a real shame if a family had a wonderful but aging dressage horse and someone in the family with a genuine interest in dressage never had an opportunity to enjoy the horse!

And I can tell you from first-hand experience that the media gets it wrong a LOT. Given the circumstances, the horse press does pretty OK--at least many at least try to be conscientious because they have a genuine interest in telling the story. Try getting interviewed by some slug who couldn't care less. You'd be amazed at what gets screwed up or left out.

kkj
Dec. 5, 2007, 09:01 PM
well, who are you exactly to determine who deserves what? in my opinion, anyone who's interested in riding and tries hard "deserves" the most awesome horse they can find. why doesn't this guy?

and if he has shown before, then that would make him "no novice" to the show ring wouldn't it?

so what exactly are you harping on? are you just going on and on because they made him sound like a better rider than you think he is? is that the gist of it? because i am not getting all of this stuff about deserving or not deserving or kicking butt or not kicking butt, accomplished or not so accomplished? i am just trying to see where you are coming from, because from my read it just sounds like petty jealousy. . . and i'm certain that's not what you mean.


Got it Class. Yes my problem is basically that they made him sound like a better rider than he is. That they used leading and slanted language like this particular site is prone to do. He may very well "deserve" Floriano in that he may love the horse, take great care of him, treat him fairly, never hang on the curb, truly appreciate him, try his best to be the best rider he can be etc. Plus it is totally Ok by me that his parents give him the horse. I really am not jealous. My true problem was with the way the article was written. That is all.

suzy
Dec. 6, 2007, 08:59 AM
Welcome Melanie and congratulations on having recognized such a superior horse before he was a proven international competitor! I enjoyed learning Floriano's history.

AllWeatherGal
Dec. 6, 2007, 11:35 AM
[QUOTE=InsideLeg2OutsideRein;2849298]The Dressage Daily article stated Hilda taught him how to post the trot. (I'd think that was earlier in his riding career.)
/QUOTE]

Yep ... earlier, but not so long ago!! It was within the last six years. Steve is a pretty talented young athlete who started riding pretty "late in life" by some standards. Sure, he's had super horses and no financial worries with access to great instruction, but it's own hard work that's got him to 3rd at ALL in just a few years.

I'm envious, yes. I spent a good 10 years at training. Sure my horse was unsuitable, my instruction, sincere but not of Hilda's experience, breadth, depth or let's face it character! When I knew him, he was as confident as you'd expect an attractive young man to be, but hard-working, polite, and thoughtfully helpful to a rider new to the barn.

He's a pretty good guy whose family has lots of resources to make his life wonderful. That one of the new wonders is another great horse ... well, I just hope they treat a daughter-in-law as well :)

AllWeatherGal
Dec. 6, 2007, 11:42 AM
I would rather they called it, "He's our son, we love him, we are giving him Floriano."

Again ... don't blame the rider for what his MOTHER says!!!!

Listen, this is the same woman who talks of trail riding and feeding this horse ice cream. Take it all into context and consider being delighted that the horse wasn't sent to ... [deleted overthetop language referring to great racehorses who have suffered an ignomious end].

Ambrey
Dec. 6, 2007, 01:56 PM
I just take issue with that his guy is described as this wonderful rider who will be competing in CDIs next season, "no novice" to the show ring who "deserves" this ride. That is the part I find a little off.

Do you have children?

It is a parent who is proud. Get over it.

egontoast
Dec. 6, 2007, 06:39 PM
Floriano was bought in Germany as a trained GP horse.!!! He did not show but was loved and trained by one girl. She chose her boyfriend over Floriano so he was sold. (Dad did not like the boyfriend)


Perhaps the 'girl' who loved and trained him to GP should be the one getting some credit. What was her name and why isn't she given credit for training the horse to GP? Why is she just mentioned as a 'girl' by someone who wants credit for importing the horse? What about the breeder? Who bred the horse?

J-Lu
Dec. 6, 2007, 08:40 PM
Perhaps the 'girl' who loved and trained him to GP should be the one getting some credit. What was her name and why isn't she given credit for training the horse to GP? Why is she just mentioned as a 'girl' by someone who wants credit for importing the horse? What about the breeder? Who bred the horse?

Egontoast,

I hear what you are saying. BUT...Melanie not only wants credit, she deserves credit. It's not like Floriano lived in a backyard with a sign on his paddock saying "future GP star, buy me now". Melanie has a spectacular eye for horses and a solid knowledge of bloodlines (Her current breeding program is evidence of this - she picks her stock and formulates the crosses). She spotted this horse and recognized potential and took the plunge to buy him, imported him, *hooked him up with the right riders*, paid to campaign him to the top and sold him to people who would allow Steffen to keep the ride. What about this doesn't deserve credit? Without her, I guarantee you he'd not be where he is today.

Also, cut her a little slack. Melanie posted one or two posts about Floriano. If it doesn't contain the exact information you are hoping to get, why not try asking her politely? Clearly, with 3 or so posts since 2006, Melanie does not frequent chat boards. Floriano's breeder gets credit, BTW, because he's listed on the papers and the USEF records as....the breeder. Yes, the girl does get credit, too. No one would think otherwise. Please!

J.

egontoast
Dec. 6, 2007, 09:20 PM
Well lots of people know the Pai relationship but the person who actually trained the horse to Gp is still " the girl' ?

J-Lu
Dec. 7, 2007, 04:57 AM
Egontoast,

1. Obviously not.

2. I don't remember her name off the top of my head. I guess that makes me a bad person, although I'm sure you can find her via German records. Just like I'm sure you've been able to identify the breeder, who is very easy to identify.

Interestingly, you still seem unable to ask nicely. With all due respect, you seem to have an agenda here....

J.

Kareen
Dec. 7, 2007, 07:17 AM
Her name is Cathrin Beckmann-Meßfeldt (formerly just Beckmann) and they did very well together. If the boyfriend-over-horse choice is a fact the boyfriend either didn't last or he did not permanently keep her from riding. At least the woman is still actively showing here and quite successfully at FEI levels.
Floriano already had a GP show record here at recognized shows such as the Dobrock and Sandbostel in 99 when he sold. I personally think it is great for the horse they chose to practically retire him before the horse retires himself. If the son treats him well - what's wrong with it? I mean the horse couldn't care less about whether or not he goes to the Olympics. He has certainly seen and won enough in international competition to satisfy whatever urge a horse may have to show in front of an audience *LOL*

Hazelnut
Dec. 7, 2007, 07:47 AM
Hey! Thanks for the information on Floriano's trainer and his show record across the big pond. Cool!

I agree, it is nice to retire earlier than later- for horses and people.:yes:

kkj
Dec. 7, 2007, 09:31 AM
Do you have children?

It is a parent who is proud. Get over it.

Um yes, I do and I am very proud of them...but I wouldn't annouce to the whole biking world that my son was going to compete in the Tour de France next season just because he had the best bike and had taken off his training wheels 6 years ago. I just think that is a lot of pressure to put a young man under. I understand being proud but not putting unrealistic expectations out there. Having too high of expectations of your children can be just as damaging to them as expecting too little of them.

If he has only been riding for six years, he may have a lot more talent than I first gave him credit for. I give any guy major props for picking up riding when he is like 18 or 19, and I hope he does do well. We could use a lot more men like that in the dressage world.

Also I think it would be great for Floriano to enjoy an less hectic more relaxed life. I agree he has earned that.

One thing I don't think anyone has pointed out, I don't think Floriano is the easiest Grand Prix ride. He has a challenging neck conformation and it looks very difficult even for one of the most skillful riders to keep him out through the neck and not totally curling. He may be a very challenging horse to learn FEI on. I of course don't know first hand, but compared to a Brentina or whoever, he looks to take a pretty tactful finesse ride.

fiona
Dec. 7, 2007, 11:58 AM
the breeder is Stefan Borgman and family in Ostbeven near Munster. He and his family have produced a number of very succesful horses out of their Wineberg(sp?) mare and Florestan.
Floriano Deux being probably the second most famous is/was ridden by Nicole Glaser Cappeler in International GP.
Because Floriano and F. Deux were so good they bred again to Florestan so look out for the next generation.

Coreene
Dec. 7, 2007, 04:28 PM
Having too high of expectations of your children can be just as damaging to them as expecting too little of them. I find it fascinating that you are reading so much into a single quote in an online article, and are concerned for what the adult owner may or may not be able to do. I would hardly call him a child.

A friend bought an FEI horse for her daughter about 2 1/2 months ago. The girl started showing dressage about 18 months ago at training level. She got a 73.8something her second time out at third level on the new horse. I should warn her that, oh my, the pressure might just damage the girl..

egontoast
Dec. 7, 2007, 04:50 PM
Jlu , I don't have an agenda. I just see the irony of someone who is so upset about her allegedly not getting her due recognition for importing the horse but she refers to the person who actually trained the horse to GP as an unnamed "girl". That was my point which you obviously missed.

swgarasu
Dec. 7, 2007, 05:50 PM
kkj- you just said what I was thinking, and a lot of other people I would imagine too.

The tone of the article struck me the same way- why is the guy so deserving? It doesn't come across in the article, and that's why it sounds odd. It seems like they're just saying that as some kind of lame justification. It seems like the truth is, "It's our horse and we're gonna let our kid ride it." There's nothing wrong with that. I'm not saying the kid is undeserving, but as far as young riders go, they haven't said why he is more deserving based on the merits of competition, horsemanship, etc.

Coreene
Dec. 7, 2007, 06:13 PM
kkj- you just said what I was thinking, and a lot of other people I would imagine too.

The tone of the article struck me the same way- why is the guy so deserving? It doesn't come across in the article, and that's why it sounds odd. It seems like they're just saying that as some kind of lame justification. It seems like the truth is, "It's our horse and we're gonna let our kid ride it." There's nothing wrong with that. I'm not saying the kid is undeserving, but as far as young riders go, they haven't said why he is more deserving based on the merits of competition, horsemanship, etc.Are you for real? It's his own horse! They don't have to explain to the horse BB analysts why he deserves it, he's the friggin owner!

And they didn't write the damn article in the first place!

One of Sjef's most favorite lines in English is "get a life." Another reason why I think he's FAB.

fiona
Dec. 7, 2007, 07:07 PM
That was my point which you obviously missed.

Never mind all that, aren't you impressed i got the scoop on the breeder?
Jeez, Back to ME!

swgarasu
Dec. 8, 2007, 12:24 AM
Are you for real? It's his own horse! They don't have to explain to the horse BB analysts why he deserves it, he's the friggin owner!

And they didn't write the damn article in the first place!

One of Sjef's most favorite lines in English is "get a life." Another reason why I think he's FAB.

Sweetie, if I had any more of a life I'd be dead from exhaustion. I happen to like the line "chill out". Enough with your outraged indignation, we're discussing an article that made some people seem insincere- it's not a witchhunt.

Sabine
Dec. 8, 2007, 12:56 AM
Her name is Cathrin Beckmann-Meßfeldt (formerly just Beckmann) and they did very well together. If the boyfriend-over-horse choice is a fact the boyfriend either didn't last or he did not permanently keep her from riding. At least the woman is still actively showing here and quite successfully at FEI levels.
Floriano already had a GP show record here at recognized shows such as the Dobrock and Sandbostel in 99 when he sold. I personally think it is great for the horse they chose to practically retire him before the horse retires himself. If the son treats him well - what's wrong with it? I mean the horse couldn't care less about whether or not he goes to the Olympics. He has certainly seen and won enough in international competition to satisfy whatever urge a horse may have to show in front of an audience *LOL*

100% my opinion as well- and good to see you again Kareen.
It's really all good here- Melanie deserves a lot more credit for sure- it's folks like her that are rare in the US- having a strong eye- and being able to buy a future star- we need some that can at least begin to outfox the ones that are on the other end...LOL! (like Kareen and her family and others that know and have bred for 100's of years...) and I am personally all for Floriano getting icecream and a break...he's done his job- and I trust Steffen that in his heart of hearts he knew that Floriano was close to the end of his international career whereas he has other opportunities that are more competitive...potentially- and one man can only do so much- right!

moribelle
Feb. 28, 2008, 11:52 PM
You obviously have not met Steffan...And BTW, I have read 2 or 3 articles he has been interviewed in in the past, which clearly give credit to Flori's original owners/sponsors...

There are 2 sides to every story, just as there are some things that seem like big, nasty dramas on the surface, when in reality they're no big deal, and everyone's doing just fine.

Well said! After all, this isn't HOllyWOOD!! Geez guys, have a reality check!:eek:

slc2
Feb. 29, 2008, 11:30 AM
As if it matters, Stephen Browning actually has quite a good record, and showed on more than one horse in rather big shows, prior to Floriano and did very well. He's not some beginner that just threw a leg over Floriano a few months ago and is learning to post, AT ALL.

Nor is Floriano push button or anything of the sort.

People here are making all these assumptions, based on a couple tiny pieces of information that represent about 1/10th of the story...because they WANT TO. They DESPERATELY want Stephen Browning to be a jerk, a beginner, a bad rider, ANYTHING but happy, successful, progressing...because it will make them feel better about what they have not achieved.

Even if he WAS a total beginner, with the kind of coaching they can get, and daily work with a coach, riders make leaps and bounds in very short periods of time, and not 'faking it' and NOT 'just riding a pushbutton horse' and NOT 'doing it wrong' - doing very, very well - actually. It's only jealousy that demands it's otherwise.

The young man can compress the experience most people don't get in even a year to a couple days, and he'll be working at an intensity and with a level of supervision most people dream about....but could never themselves withstand. It's very intensive and most people's egoes simply can not take it.

This minute picking at Stephen Browning is pure flat out jealousy, and nothing more. People look at how long it took them to get to do a leg yield or a shoulder in, they see someone get a nice horse...and they just BOIL. They just can't stand it. Oh...if only they had the money, they think bitterly. It isn't just money. It's really wanting to do it, and really working at it, living it, breathing it, developing some very cool nerves under pressure, the ability to focus totally in the absolute worst situations.... there's so many things to it. It takes that much just to even be moderately successful.

NO, when you ride 2-3x a week on one horse, take the winter off, show at a schooling show once a year and get a lesson from whomever is available or was in a horse magazine most recently, and never change what you do, or get exposed to any other trainers or see any other riders of top calibre, you DON'T progress as rapidly as the person who works every day on a very able and challenging horse with a top trainer standing there every second telling them what they're doing wrong, watching dozens of upper level horses being warmed up, trained, ridden by different people while listening to his trainer's comments, etc! People like this just progress at an incredible rate!

Big surprise? Boy I hope not.