English TBs..PIC LINK ADDED [Archive]

dalpal

Oct. 26, 2007, 06:43 PM

I have an older English Tb schoolmaster that if I could clone, I would. :yes: He has a lovely dressage build, great work ethic, and wonderful personality. He was once an event horse.

I have been researching English TBs online....do we have any American breeders? Or where does one search for English TBs in this country?

We've been discussing selling one of my horses (she wants to be a hunter) and getting another dressage horse. My husband was standing at the gate with me the other day when my gelding came up for attention....and my husband said....Why don't you just get another Cooper? I would love to have another Cooper, but don't have the foggest idea where to find one.

When I bought this horse...I was told he was an English TB..which is meant he had 1/4 hanoverian blood in him....but the more I research, it seems there is more Darley arabian blood in this line....which might explain why I love him so. :yes::D

Any thoughts on where to search for English TBs in the US????

Thomas_1

Oct. 26, 2007, 06:57 PM

What is your horse's breeding?

dalpal

Oct. 26, 2007, 07:22 PM

Thomas...I wish I knew......

All I know is that he was imported from England to the US in 96 and he was born in 1990....he was ridden by Buck Davidson. I did try to get in touch with Buck a couple of years ago, but had no luck.

He's got such a lovely build.....nice bone, round hip, built uphill.

The lady who I bought him from, bought him from Juless Nyessen in Southern Pines. I looked up his eventing record and got in touch with the original US owners last year....but never asked about his pedigree....maybe I should go back and see if they can tell me.

I don't know if his papers were lost along the way or if he was paperless to begin with.

by the way, his name is Count Shaw..if anyone recognizes this horse's name and can help, please let me know.

Thomas_1

Oct. 26, 2007, 07:52 PM

Does he have any tattoos or freeze brands?

You could have him blood tested to identify his lines

dalpal

Oct. 26, 2007, 07:55 PM

No markings.

Okay, I'm blonde (Literally)...how would one go about blood testing...I would be thrilled to figure out his heritage.

PineTreeFarm

Oct. 26, 2007, 07:59 PM

From USEF:
117562 COUNT SHAW Foal Date: No Date Available
Color: Bay Sex: G
Membership Type: Life PATRICIA COLE
RALEIGH, NC
Owner ID:213637
Active Member - Senior
Horse Name: COUNT SHAW (117562)
Breed: ENGLISH THOROUGHBRED
Sire Name: EXTRA
Dam Name: MY CROWN AMETHYST
PATRICIA COLE
NC

Don't know if this the same horse.

Leigh

Oct. 26, 2007, 09:59 PM

Your boy is almost full TB ..he is registered at Weatherby's (our English TB stud book) but as un-named..he was foaled in 1984. There wouldn't be any Hanovarian blood I'd say as the unregistered mare is way back in his pedigree.

Can't find his name on the Eventing database so he might only have evented in the US.

His grand sire Exbury was Frenchbred but Extras dams side was good old English bloodlines as was your boys dam side.

Extras dam Scammell was by Derby winner Dante..Scammell is also the dam of Scallywag who two of my horses are by :-)

I've filled in Pedigree Query for you http://www.pedigreequery.com/count+shaw

He would be typical H.I.S. bred (Hunters Improvement Society) now known as Sport Horse Breeding of Great Britain.

Hope that helps ? :)

Leigh

Oct. 26, 2007, 10:01 PM

If the horse has Hanoverian ancestry, he is not a Thoroughbred. There is literally no difference between Thoroughbreds bred in the UK and TBs bred here. If anything, the UK is even more overrun with sons of Northern Dancer than we are.

That's sort of true nowadays but not back then :)..he's got very English bloodlines.

dalpal

Oct. 26, 2007, 10:41 PM

Foxtrot's

Oct. 26, 2007, 10:53 PM

Flat racers may be similar bloodlines to America, but the distance, grass runners, steeplechase horses are what I like to think are the backbone of TB sporthorse breeding.

War Admiral

Oct. 26, 2007, 10:59 PM

Flat racers may be similar bloodlines to America, but the distance, grass runners, steeplechase horses are what I like to think are the backbone of TB sporthorse breeding.

You speaketh truth! :yes:

Leigh

Oct. 27, 2007, 06:36 AM

Thanks guys.....yes, that is my horse.....He's still registered under the previous owner's name.

Leigh, a special thanks for doing that for me. Please tell me that he wasn't born in 1984.....we were originally told he was 14 when we bought him two years ago.....then we saw he had a foaling date of 1990 on his event record that I have copied here...so we assumed he was around 17/18. If he's twenty-three, he's the best looking 23 year old I've ever seen in my entire life. Vet estimated via teeth that 17/18 was about right. Dear lord, I don't dare tell husband that he could possibly be 23.

You're welcome :)

I could only find two foals registered to his dam on the Weatherby's database , the other was a full sister foaled in 1988.

It is possible that she had another foal in 1990 but they didn't register it...maybe contact the Sporthorse GB and see if she had any offspring registered with them on their Basic Identity register and also contact British Eventing to see if he was registered with them too but I can't see anything under the name Count Shaw on their database (we can only see by name on there) they should both hold breeding information :)

Congrats on your boy..it's nice to know he has a good home :)

dalpal

Oct. 27, 2007, 09:47 AM

Shock has now worn off. My trainer actually told me that it wouldn't surprise her. Because he is at a facility with such good care, he has just blossomed in the past year. Wish I could post a picture on here..don't know how.

He truly looks like he is in his mid teens....with a few white hairs running through his maghaony bay coat, gives a way that he is older.

Leigh, any idea what a horse such as he would have been bred to do in his early career??? Steeplechase or racing?

This has been very educational for me..thank you.

Thomas_1

Oct. 27, 2007, 12:29 PM

If he's got some Hanovarian in then its likely to be steeple chasing. They need stamina and courage as well as jumping ability and a lot of the steeplechasers about have a hint of something else that went to make the English Hunter and then back again to the TB for the steeplechasers.

Foxtrot's

Oct. 27, 2007, 12:55 PM

I didn't know that, Thomas. I know a lot of French steeplechasers are not FULL Thoroughbred, or of verifiable heritage waaay back.
Point is, they can still win, however they are bred.

Leigh

Oct. 27, 2007, 03:18 PM

He would have been bred with National Hunt/Point to Point (pro steelechasing/ammy steeplechasing) in mind from the looks of it...although we use those lines to bred Eventers too :)

I'd bet he hasn't got any Hanovarian blood ..just a rumour I'd guess that came from lol..specially as the unreg mare was way back in pre 40's..probably just an English/Irish hunter mare of unknown breeding? (our Hunters are usually stockier than the type you guys call Hunters as I know a lot of your hunters are TB types)

The French do race a lot of horses that aren't completely full TB..they use some Celle Francias (sp) and Trotters but they wouldn't go for any Hanovarian or other heavy draught type of warmblood..it's all about speed, certain lines have the stamina.
The Fellow a Frenchbred won the Cheltenham Gold Cup and he wasn't full TB.
As long as they are registered with the TB Stud book of that country they can race against full TB but it wouldn't be worth it unless they were 7/8ths or 15/16ths really.

Any steeplechaser would have had TB bred into the line rather than had a heavy breed bred into it so you would not add a warmblood to improve it even for substance and stamina..most of the National Hunt bred horses that are full TB are bigger anyway just because they have been bred that way for years.

Here's a pic of my boy by Scallywag..he is just under 17.1hh and most people think he is Irish Draught x TB but he is old fashioned type National Hunt bred
http://www.shannonleighstables.com/phy/clim/12508/rocky-matfield2003.JPG

Drvmb1ggl3

Oct. 27, 2007, 04:11 PM

There is no prohibition in Europe, as there is in North America, about running non-TBs in races. As has been mentioned most of the non-TBs one sees nowadays are French bred horses, called AQPS (Autre Que Pur Sang), but those horses are generally 7/8s or better TB, sometimes even 31/32s. The most famous AQPS horse in recent times was the horse Leigh mentioned, THE FELLOW, who almost won the Gold Cup (the true championship race of world Steeplechasing) 3 times, he won once and finished 2nd twice, beaten by less than head on both occasions.
The winner of the Grand National in 2004, Amberleigh House, is also not a full registered TB. Horses like that were more common back 40 or 50 years ago, especially Irish bred horses, Sheila's Cottage and Royal Tan being the most famous examples.
Killinghurst Girl, the dam of several top eventers including Lord Killinghurst etc, was by a Hanoverian stallion, yet she raced over fences in Point to Points. Her dam, Flosuebarb, ran in the Grand National three times.

dalpal

Oct. 27, 2007, 05:12 PM

Leigh..
Goodness....I'd never guess he is all TB....Okay, I am posting a link to pictures of Cooper that I posted on my NC board. He's finer bone than your boy....we took these pics last month....and yes, husband is wonderful at chopping my head off in pics...LOL!

http://forum.nchorsenews.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=43928

PS..rein length is a work in progress for me.

kookicat

Oct. 27, 2007, 05:26 PM

He looks amazing! :D

Hocus Focus

Oct. 27, 2007, 05:32 PM

An interesting thread. Informative and very much using the resource to its best advantage. I think we should have more of this behavior on here.

dalpal

Oct. 27, 2007, 05:40 PM

An interesting thread. Informative and very much using the resource to its best advantage. I think we should have more of this behavior on here.

AMEN..this entire thread has been VERY helpful to me!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

THANKS to all of you!!

onwego

Oct. 27, 2007, 06:28 PM

I have an English TB too!! I just love him and wouldn't mind having a younger version of him. I was able to find out more information about him on here too through Leigh, she's very helpful. He is steeplechase bred as well.
http://www.pedigreequery.com/john+boy

dalpal

Oct. 27, 2007, 06:35 PM

Foxtrot's

Oct. 27, 2007, 07:07 PM

The horses of my desire. I just love the big, old English jumping TB - They are the ones we should be putting in our breeding programs for the necessary "hotter" blood. Too few of them here. I found one after I searched and searched. His grand-dam was a Maryland Hunt Cup winner. So much bone on him people thought hewas a warmblood.

Leigh

Oct. 27, 2007, 08:14 PM

Leigh

Oct. 27, 2007, 08:27 PM

We should have Leigh shop for us in England. :D

I want a clone of what I already have.

lol well I wouldn't mind bidding with other peoples money at the Doncaster NH Store sales :P

Another place I'd go is any of the NH breeders here and in Ireland :)..I went to Scarvagh House Stud in N. Ireland three years ago to look at stallions for one of my mares and I was shown around the youngsters...they actually had separate farms (not just barns) for the yearlings, 2yo's, 3yo's and 4yo's... hundreds of them all unraced ready to go to the NH sales..if I was looking to buy another horse I would have lol..it was heaven :)

Foxtrot's

Oct. 27, 2007, 11:08 PM

oooooh - my kind of candy!

Thomas_1

Oct. 28, 2007, 12:46 AM

I'm also a frequent bidder at the Doncaster HP sales and have bought quite a few through there.

Mine are all the steeple chasing/point to point type and in the main by Strong Gale.

Fred

Oct. 28, 2007, 07:43 AM

Leigh, I wonder if you could help me search out more about a mare of mine? She is English bred, on her FEI passport she is called a Thoroughbred. She is by Catch the Thatch, her name is Tuppence II and she was an event mare, in the UK as well as in NA.

The pedigrees of racing TBs are indeed international. They criss crossed the Atlantic more than the Cunard line! As someone pointed out earlier, there are probably more ND ( a Canadian-bred BTW!!) sons and grandsons standing in the UK than there are in NA. Northern Dancer's dam Natalma was an English bred mare, imported by E.P Taylor of Windfields farm. Nasrullah (by the Italian bred Nearco) was also an English bred horse, imported to the US, and he is one of the most influential sires in North American racing lines, and is a significant sport horse influence as well.

Leigh

Oct. 28, 2007, 10:35 AM

dalpal

Oct. 28, 2007, 01:55 PM

This is fun.....like an English TB convention.

Thomas, your horse is lovely.

So Thomas and Leigh......what would a nice (Cooper like) English TB cost these days?

Thomas_1

Oct. 28, 2007, 02:06 PM

Definitely an "it depends" answer.

But the average price at the St Ledger sales was just less than £15,000

vineyridge

Oct. 28, 2007, 03:08 PM

Don't forget the South American horses when you talk about international TBs! There has always been a fairly strong tradition of importing to NA from the racing nations down south. And vice versa. Forli was from the Argentine.

Thatch's son, the German Prince Thatch, was used for dressage breeding at the Hanoverian State Stud at Celle. And Thatch had a full sister, Special (US), who was,even though she had very few of the classic US lines. Dam of (among others) Fairy Queen, dam of Sadler's Wells, and the great Canadian Nureyev.

TBs, no matter what they do for a living, are really citizens of the world.

Fred

Oct. 28, 2007, 06:22 PM

Hi Fred :)

I found the telephone number of the guy that evented her over here...Nick Croall (0044) 1993 830459 (cell (0044) 7885 058089) of Idbury Stables in Oxfordshire..he should be able to give you information straight from the horses mouth lol :)

Her event record over here shows she was a decent horse :-)..she was well placed up to Intermediate here (**)..she looks like she prefered the X-C to the Show Jumping :P

I don't think she is full TB as I can't find her on the Weatherby's database.
She's probably on The Sporthorse GB basic ID register and that will list her dams side..as would British Eventing..you'd have to email/phone them direct to get that info.

Catch The Thatch was a popular Event horse sire http://www.pedigreequery.com/catch+the+thatch

hope that helps :)

wow, Leigh, you are terrific. thank you very much.!!! I am really grateful for your help.
Tuppence is now in foal to A Fine Romance, and I am really keeping my fingers crossed for that baby.

viney. I agree, we can't leave out the South American horses. One of my best broodmares, Macassa (by Same Direction who is by Vice Regent and out of a mare named Sallymount by Snow Mount (GB) is out of an Argentine mare named Wet Blue. Macassa's first foal (by A Fine Romance) has competed at Advanced in Eventing and is now a winning Grand Prix jumper.

Leigh

Oct. 28, 2007, 07:26 PM

They all have International pedigrees these days it's true but there are definitely some lines that are very English NH like Count Shaws ....so it's not a thread on boasting about English TB's just recognising the breeding on this particular horse and realising what budget and what aim the breeder had for this horse.
National Hunt horses don't earn the sort of money flat racers do so the stud fees are much lower in comparison. There are often well bred flat racers of moderate winnings that are used to cover NH mares to add more speed..not saying they are all cheap covering fees but a NH breeder wouldn't pay Storm Cats stud fee lol
www.dbsauctions.com will give you some idea of prices..go to sales results at top of page.
There are a mixture of countries in the pedigrees there :)
I think you have some very nice US bred horses over there (and here)..it's just a shame they nearly all have raced first ..it would be nice to event one that hadn't raced first :P
That's the only difference I would say as we don't always have TB's that have raced to event (of course a lot have) because the stud fees are cheaper and they aren't raced at 2yo you can pick up an untried NH racehorse for the same as you would buy an young eventer (obviously not if it's a full sibling to a Cheltenham winner lol)
We have many good US bred horses here that we've used for NH and Eventing sires. Probably our best dual Eventing /NH stallion was Primitive Rising and he was a US bred :-)

Leigh

Oct. 28, 2007, 07:37 PM

wow, Leigh, you are terrific. thank you very much.!!! I am really grateful for your help.
Tuppence is now in foal to A Fine Romance, and I am really keeping my fingers crossed for that baby.

viney. I agree, we can't leave out the South American horses. One of my best broodmares, Macassa (by Same Direction who is by Vice Regent and out of a mare named Sallymount by Snow Mount (GB) is out of an Argentine mare named Wet Blue. Macassa's first foal (by A Fine Romance) has competed at Advanced in Eventing and is now a winning Grand Prix jumper.

Fred..I'm not terrific, the internet is lol..it's just knowing where to look :)
Just glad I could help and not just lurk lol
Good luck with your baby/ies..should be a future star :)
PS I'd love to know what you find out about her :)

CuriosoJorge

Oct. 28, 2007, 07:59 PM

Leigh

Oct. 28, 2007, 09:58 PM

The continued use of the term "English Thoroughbred" on this thread has me confused. The original horse in question has an unknown 5th dam. Are you all saying that this horse is considered a Thoroughbred in the UK? To me a TB is a TB, world wide, and has a known pedigree traceable back to the Big 3. ;) Thank you all for sharing your knowledge!

There are two registries at Weatherby's the 'GSB' (The General Stud Book) and the 'NTR' (Non Thoroughbred Register) but to be registered with the NTR one parent must be in the GSB and the other parent must be over 14.2hh (if I remember correctly). The non Thoroughbred parent is added as un-registered onto the passport even if it is registered with another breed society (although they do keep the horses breed information) , so even if eg. the dam is down as unregistered it doesn't always mean she is of unknown breeding.

This can go back generations so you can have a horse that almost full TB but registered on the NTR or one that is half TB on the NTR..so if you see a horse Weatherby's GSB it is full but Weatherby's NTR is at least half TB.

I'm not 100% on this info but it's my basic knowledge of it as we had to register a Trakhener x Shire mare to get her foal by my GSB stallion registered on the NTR .

So technically Count Shaw isn't full TB but as good as it gets :)..he would have a Weatherby's passport that looks identical except for the letters GSB and NTR

Weatherby's is the founding studbook for all the worlds TB's :)

Drvmb1ggl3

Oct. 28, 2007, 10:26 PM

So technically Count Shaw isn't full TB but as good as it gets :)..he would have a Weatherby's passport that looks identical except for the letters GSB and NTR

And more importantly, he can race, which he wouldn't be allowed to do stateside.

Also, a horse in the NTR can also be moved over into the GSB if you can prove 8 generations of uninterupted crosses to TBs, and superior performance record on the racecourse.

Weatherby's is the founding studbook for all the worlds TB's :)

Yes, though from reading these forums sometimes you'd think the TB started and began in the US and everything TB related was ruled by the American JC.

vineyridge

Oct. 28, 2007, 10:54 PM

I often wish the US Jockey Club were not so very short sighted about many of its policies. :)

dalpal

Oct. 29, 2007, 09:28 AM

And more importantly, he can race, which he wouldn't be allowed to do stateside.

Also, a horse in the NTR can also be moved over into the GSB if you can prove 8 generations of uninterupted crosses to TBs, and superior performance record on the racecourse.

Yes, though from reading these forums sometimes you'd think the TB started and began in the US and everything TB related was ruled by the American JC.

He told me once that he sure would like to race (at the time I thought he was 14, guess he must have been 20ish)...we had just bought him and my trainer and I went out to a back field. Now I have galloped many horses (never a TB), so I cued him into canter and got into two point to let him go. Okay, by the third "gear change" , I decided that I had seen all I needed to see....and brought him back down. :lol: Dear lord, I had never felt anything more powerful in my life and I don't think he had given it his all at that point either.

I figured he had these gears from his eventing days....but perhaps he was a racer/steeplchaser in his youth.

katlee

Oct. 29, 2007, 12:38 PM

Is there anyone in the US that's really utilizing the NH TBs? I spent three months in Ireland and swore I'd never buy anything but a TB again. My mare now is NA-KWPN, but very heavily TB. It was the closest I could find to the sort of ride I found in Ireland- TB go and heart with more bone.

Stacie

Oct. 29, 2007, 01:58 PM

http://www.shannonleighstables.com/phy/clim/12508/rocky-matfield2003.JPG

Oh Yummy. What are the temperaments of National Hunt bred horses like? Are they different than flat bred horses?

If a pedigree has a lot of English and French bred TBs, what websites are helpful in determining whether the horses in the pedigree are flat or National Hunt Bred?

Drvmb1ggl3

Oct. 29, 2007, 04:17 PM

Oh Yummy. What are the temperaments of National Hunt bred horses like? Are they different than flat bred horses?

If a pedigree has a lot of English and French bred TBs, what websites are helpful in determining whether the horses in the pedigree are flat or National Hunt Bred?

The Racing Post is the quintessential site for euro racing info. It's the equivelant of bris or equiline for stateside racing and breeding info, except that it's FREE!! And the interface is so much more appealing (doesn't look like it was printed in a 70's typewriter).

You can look up race records and also stallion stats. The progeny stats can be searched by flat or jump, and even subdivided by distance on the flat (i.e sprinters, middle distance, stayers etc).

Btw, every keeps referring to English and French NH horses.... if you want NH horses, go to Ireland. It's the no.1 producer of NH horses in the world. Over 50% of the TB foal crop in Ireland is bred for NH racing. 13 of the last 20 Grand National winners were Irish bred (5 were English and 2 were NZ bred), and 12 of the last 20 Cheltenham Gold Cup winners were Irish bred (6 were English and 2 were French bred).

Leigh

Oct. 29, 2007, 07:08 PM

Btw, every keeps referring to English and French NH horses.... if you want NH horses, go to Ireland. It's the no.1 producer of NH horses in the world. Over 50% of the TB foal crop in Ireland is bred for NH racing. 13 of the last 20 Grand National winners were Irish bred (5 were English and 2 were NZ bred), and 12 of the last 20 Cheltenham Gold Cup winners were Irish bred (6 were English and 2 were French bred).

I didn't exclude the Irish horses :)

Hey and Stacie..I guess temperaments depend on lots of things whether they are NH or Flat bred..how they are backed?, if the race trainer was good or not?how they are schooled after they finish racing? and the type of rider they are paired with after racing?..I've known more quite and sensible racehorses but the nutty ones are the ones remembered and give the rest a bad name..Flat or NH. But yes NH probably in general are more sensible but not sure if it's genetic or because they are usually backed later and given more time to mature.
My own are very laid back to handle and to ride..but I have bred them so know their history etc. also made sure my mares were the same way or I wouldn't have used them as broodmares.
I know it's easier to train a TB to event if they haven't raced than to retrain one that has raced.

Leigh

Oct. 29, 2007, 07:23 PM

He told me once that he sure would like to race (at the time I thought he was 14, guess he must have been 20ish)...we had just bought him and my trainer and I went out to a back field. Now I have galloped many horses (never a TB), so I cued him into canter and got into two point to let him go. Okay, by the third "gear change" , I decided that I had seen all I needed to see....and brought him back down. :lol: Dear lord, I had never felt anything more powerful in my life and I don't think he had given it his all at that point either.

I figured he had these gears from his eventing days....but perhaps he was a racer/steeplchaser in his youth.

Excellent story :)..nothing compares after that does it ?
My first 'gallop' was when I left school and worked with Point to Pointers..my eyes were watering from the wind lol and I was frozen with fear for what seemed like ages..probably a couple of seconds until the exercise jockey next to me snapped me out of it lol..and then it was 'Oh WOW! lol and we weren't even going flat out !

EqTrainer

Oct. 29, 2007, 07:27 PM

I know Dalpals horse and he is truly lovely :)

I think you could have quite a market, Leigh, shipping them over here if they are like he is!

I am beginning to suspect this is an overlooked resourch for nice horses....

My2cents

Oct. 29, 2007, 07:32 PM

Foxtrot's

Oct. 29, 2007, 07:40 PM

TB heritage has a lot of articles on racing, steeplechase, National and sporthorse TB roots - it is a big site, but interesting.

Leigh

Oct. 29, 2007, 08:51 PM

Doesn't the pic of the OP'ster's horse look like my boy Spike (1/2 ID + 1/2 English TB)? Wonder if the small world thing will apply in this case since Spike's sire was a H.I.S. in England until he was imported to Canada.

Hey Lisa :)..yes but there is only one Cousin Spike :)..hope he is doing OK ? xoxoxoxox

The small world thing might need explaining :)

Painted Wings

Oct. 29, 2007, 09:27 PM

I think this horse is just gorgeous:

http://www.louellastud.co.uk/primitive_proposal.php

Wonder if they would ship semen to the US?

fish

Oct. 29, 2007, 09:36 PM

Flat racers may be similar bloodlines to America, but the distance, grass runners, steeplechase horses are what I like to think are the backbone of TB sporthorse breeding.

But the Northern Dancers excell there, too-- especially on the grass.

dalpal

Oct. 29, 2007, 10:15 PM

I think this horse is just gorgeous:

http://www.louellastud.co.uk/primitive_proposal.php

Wonder if they would ship semen to the US?

Drooling here...:yes: You guys must stop posting these pictures...I'm wanting one of these horses, but do not have 30,000.00 (Thomas said on average 15,000 pounds)to buy one.

Leigh

Oct. 29, 2007, 10:21 PM

OK so now you're talking :) Primitive Proposal !
Here's my special girls page..warning it takes ages to load as there are so many pics
http://www.shannonleighstables.com/TRULY-S-PAGE

dalpal

Oct. 29, 2007, 10:36 PM

Foxtrot's

Oct. 30, 2007, 01:39 AM

Yes, fish, that's true - ND is everywhere! But it is the other parts of the mix that make the difference between the shorter distance, speedy North American breds and the boney, big guys being discussed here. These speed horses were added to make the NH TB's faster, yet keep the jump, stamina, and nice big dinner plate feet so they don't dig into that lovely grass. That's all I meant. The big TB eventers that do Badminton/Burley are quite a different type of horse, rarely bred here. (I did see one in Calgary and when I enquired, they said he was going to go to the chuck waggon
racers as a wheel horse - to my dismay!)

Lgd1

Oct. 30, 2007, 06:30 AM

My mare is 7/8TB - she should be Weatherbys NTR registered but her breeder never bothered registering his stock with them :rolleyes: She's actually registered AES instead but still very much NH in type. She evented (unaffiliated) until she was an 8yo and then went over to pure dressage. She made it to PSG/Inter I and does do the GP work but she does find it harder to engage than the WBs - she just has the most fantastic temperament and work ethic - she never says 'no' and tries her heart out for you. She can still fair shift if you fancy a gallop as well - she never had time penalties cross country.

http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/lucky+miss+perrier

First two taken a few years back - she was about 3rd/4th level in these pics

http://groups.msn.com/upsaddle2/lgd.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=1501

http://groups.msn.com/upsaddle2/lgd.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=1500

This is with her 3 day old daughter by the KWPN stallion Mooiman - first foal at 17yo and didn't even sweat :D The filly took reserve champion at her KWPN keuring. :D

http://groups.msn.com/upsaddle2/lgd.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=16457

Stacie

Oct. 30, 2007, 11:17 AM

OK so now you're talking :) Primitive Proposal !
Here's my special girls page..warning it takes ages to load as there are so many pics
http://www.shannonleighstables.com/TRULY-S-PAGE

It's fun seeing pictures where you can see a yearling turn into stunning 2 year old. Gives me hope for my 17 month old :lol:

I just love the bone Truly had as a baby.

vineyridge

Oct. 30, 2007, 12:31 PM

We do have the right kind of stallions here in the US. Take a look at Running Stag, for example. He raced a lot, won a lot, and got better as he got older.
http://www.pedigreequery.com/running+stag
http://www.bloodhorse.com/stallion-register/sr_sire_page.asp?refno=1439523&origin=singlesearch

One of his three year old gelding sons sold for $700 at the Fairmount Park Paddock sale in August or September.

While his stud fee may be too high for sporthorse breeders, his young ones should be available cheap, especially if they don't have sprinter bottom lines.

Painted Wings

Oct. 30, 2007, 01:12 PM

Running stag is lovely but so are the other Stallions at Turf Express Stud

http://www.turfexpress.com/stud/stallions_intro.ws

Interesting also that Primitive Proposal is mostly American bloodlines. He really has an "English" look about him. That filly by him is absolutely lovely.

Leigh

Oct. 30, 2007, 02:52 PM

Interesting also that Primitive Proposal is mostly American bloodlines. He really has an "English" look about him. That filly by him is absolutely lovely.

He is by a very US bred stallion but out of a very English bred mare :)
His sire Primitive Rising I used twice and he was the UK's best producer of eventers in recent years but he also sired good NH horses :)
He had incredible movement and the sweetest temperament..he used to hold his tongue in his teeth so you could play with it lol..they called him Teddy as his stable name :)
After he died I chose Primitive Proposal for my mare mainly because he was by him.

Your American horses are known for their good looks and another stallion I used was bred with that in mind. He was by a US bred sire Bend a Bow and his dam was Polaris Missile who was a big heavy type NH winning English mare..the result Cruise Missile was stunning..he was big boned and very goodlooking!

My filly is big boned and reaching 16.3hh as a 2 and a half yo...I know she got the bone from her paternal grand dam Polaris Missile and the height from Cruise Missile and she has her movement from two families..one is Primitive Rising and the other from her maternal Grand dam Jarva (my mare who is 33yo)..her looks are from the American side :)
I think the US and UK bred horses make a great cross :)

Thanks for the kind words about my filly :)

vineyridge

Oct. 30, 2007, 03:42 PM

One of the reasons I like Running Stag so much is his Pan-European bottom side. He's got the best German blood (often used in WBs) ou there, and his French bottom lines are loaded with jumping horses.

Plus, he has proved himself, and you'd know what you'd get if you bred to him. Good bone, stamina, improvement with age, and a chance for speed if you wanted it.