Contucci, or ???

[Kimber]

I'm planning to breed my mare in the Spring, and am wanting to finalize my stallion selection in the next month or so. I sent all her particulars to Hilltop, and they recommended Contucci for her, so he's currently the front-runner. I'm wondering if folks have suggestions for other stallions that would suit her. Obviously, I want the best individual possible, I don't really have a preference for domestic vs. european stallions, as long as he complements her well, and don't have a preference for registry as long as my mare and the foal will be accepted for inspection.

Here are her particulars/my goals:
She is: 11yo, 14.3hh, Dressagey Arab
She's very solidly built, with a lovely head, the neck could be slightly higher set, though it's a nice shape. Her shoulder is nice, has good freedom, could be slightly more laid back. Strong short coupled back and good loin coupling, along with a deep hip. Legs are clean, very slight toe-in in front, originating from fetlock down, and very slightly straight behind. She's balanced and level front to back, but does not have a distinct uphill balance. Overall an attractive, athletic, correct mare that needs some "tweaking" here and there.

In terms of temperament, she's incredibly sweet and affectionate. Very much wants to please, but also has a very well developed sense of fair-play. She dislikes being asked for things she thinks are unfair and is expressive of her opinions (it's never a secret what she's thinking). Will give her all when the chips are down. Not "mareish". Fundamentally quiet, but can be spooky -- not always confident. If she's confident in her handler, curiosity and willingness always overcome the scary thing. Very easy to work around on the ground, obedient, etc for vet, farrier, trailering etc. To sum up -- very sweet with a bit of sass thrown in.

Movement is very correct. three good solid gaits. Pretty trot, she could elevate more at the wither. Correct canter but not flashy and could have more uphill balance. Excellent walk. Mediums are there, but not extravagant. Lateral work is easy for her. Ridability is good, but could be better. More boldness would improve this greatly as there is a "spooky" factor. Overall a little more work ethic would be nice, though it's not bad now -- she prefers to either work 5-6 days/week or not at all. Very limited experience over fences. Hesitant at first, then willing to pop over small obstacles, but it's not really her thing -- she's an arab and jumps like a goat. Judges and clinicians alike have had positive things to say about her conformation, movement, and potential/ability to move up the levels.

Ideally, I'd like to have slighlty more height (but not too much, under 16hh is still fine by me, and I'm reluctant to use a stallion over 16.2hh). A little higher set neck coming out of a slightly more laid-back shoulder, generally more uphill balance would be nice. I'd like to retain her refinement and overall look. I'd like to maintain or enhance her hindquarter, depth of hip, etc. I'd like to maintain or improve the straightness/angles of her legs. I'd be happy with foal exactly like her but 3" taller, but of course would hope to improve her. My goal is a sporthorse that I, as an AA rider, will still be able to ride an enjoy, but one that will have the conformation, movement, and atheticism to be competitive as we move up the levels.

Here are a bunch of photos of her to give an idea of her strengths/weaknesses.
Here is a video clip of First Lvel trot work (http://kfdesign.com/horses/Stella/Photos/SHN2006/trot.mov) with me, her AA owner, aboard.
Here is a video clip of her at maximum silliness (http://kfdesign.com/horses/Stella/Photos/JuttaClinic04-2006/StellaFracas.mov), disagreeing with schooling an exercise too many times.
Trot Lengthening (http://kfdesign.com/horses/Stella/Photos/SHN2006/trotlengthen.jpg)
Working Trot (http://kfdesign.com/horses/Stella/Photos/06-06Reg2/shus.jpg) in materiale class
Trot Lengthening (http://kfdesign.com/horses/Stella/Photos/SHN2006/shus12.jpg) in materiale class
Collected Trot (http://kfdesign.com/horses/Stella/Photos/StellaCDI04-03/stellaCDI04.jpg)
Medium Canter (http://kfdesign.com/horses/Stella/Photos/StellaCDI04-03/stellaCDI07.jpg) (only a little bit getting run away with, lol)
Working Canter (http://kfdesign.com/horses/Stella/Photos/StellaClinic10-27-2002/stella10-27_08.jpg) Schooling
Medium Trot (http://kfdesign.com/horses/Stella/Photos/JuttaClinic09-2006/trot4.jpg) Schooling
Half Steps (http://kfdesign.com/horses/Stella/Photos/lesson07-28-06/halfsteps.jpg) Schooling
Halt at X (http://kfdesign.com/horses/Stella/Photos/StellaCDI04-03/stellaCDI10.jpg)
In Hand (http://kfdesign.com/horses/Stella/Photos/SHN2006/inhand1.jpg)

To sum up her personality:
Sweet (http://kfdesign.com/horses/Stella/Photos/StellaPBD2002/StellaPBD-04.jpg)
Quiet (http://kfdesign.com/horses/Stella/Photos/StellaCDS2002/stellayawn01.jpg)
Silly (http://kfdesign.com/horses/Stella/Photos/JuttaClinic09-2006/buck1.jpg)

I've begun stallion shopping in the past and something has always come up to delay my plans, so I'm excited to finally pick a boy for her. :)

[Oldenburg Mom]

Well, I'll jump in here.

First, congratulations on staying on when she was being "silly". Yes, I would have been in a heap on the ground.

Second, it looks like you've got a good friend there. You are quite the pair!!

Third, I would call or email Angela Barilar at High Point Hanoverians. She has two of my favourite stallions—Rosenthal and Sinatra Song—both who compete. If I'm not mistaken, I think Rosenthal is about 16.2 ... but again, I could be mistaken. I believe Rosenthal has a wonderful temperament as well; I've competed again his babies, and they were both wonderful...no antics. Of course, that doesn't mean much ... but he's giving some nice traits. Why am I thinking Contucci is a bit "hotter" ... ? If that is not the case, I apologise in advance. I remember seeing one of his offspring at the Lisa Wilcox clinic and even now I remember what wonderful suspension the young mare had.

Anyway...just something you might like to pursue.

[YankeeLawyer]

Well, I'll jump in here.

First, congratulations on staying on when she was being "silly". Yes, I would have been in a heap on the ground.

Second, it looks like you've got a good friend there. You are quite the pair!!

Third, I would call or email Angela Barilar at High Point Hanoverians. She has two of my favourite stallions—Rosenthal and Sinatra Song—both who compete. If I'm not mistaken, I think Rosenthal is about 16.2 ... but again, I could be mistaken. I believe Rosenthal has a wonderful temperament as well; I've competed again his babies, and they were both wonderful...no antics. Of course, that doesn't mean much ... but he's giving some nice traits. Why am I thinking Contucci is a bit "hotter" ... ? If that is not the case, I apologise in advance. I remember seeing one of his offspring at the Lisa Wilcox clinic and even now I remember what wonderful suspension the young mare had.

Anyway...just something you might like to pursue.

Contucci is not hot, nor are his offspring -- quite the contrary. The ones I know are very mellow.

Of the Hilltop Stallions, I really like Royal Prince, but if Hilltop is recommending Contucci I would trust their judgment b/c they know what they are doing.

Rosenthal has crossed very well with Arabs. His offspring are pretty and he does well in sport, but I think it is too soon to determine whether they will do well as performance horses (I think his oldest ones are only 4 or 5). Same can be said of Royal Prince, though, and I would breed a mare to him.

[carosello]

My suggestions to look into would be Routiner and Freestyle.

[not again]

Waldaire comes to mind, with his entire career being competed by an adult amateur. He has at least 43 national year end awards through grand prix. He is owned by Tasker who posts here.

[raffey1]

Another stallion to consider is a Holsteiner named Landonn, approved RPSI. He is just about sixteen hands even. I have met him several times at shows, and he is beautiful,a lovely mover, sensible and sweet, and his owner has a lot of experience with his breedings to Arabs. He can be seen at her website at www.bluebrookfarm.com. She would be a terrific person to work with, as well.

[copper bay farm]

Vanessa Carlson's stallion Frohwind I believe has had some excellent crosses on Arabian mares - yes, I looked on her website and he was the USA Equestrian Leading Sire for Half-Arabians in 2000 and 2003.

http://www.woodridgefarm.com/stallions/LeadSire.htm

As someone else mentioned, Angela Barilar's Rosenthal would be another one to look at as well.

Best of luck!

[dogponyshow]

I have a Contucci, and he throws the most beautiful necks! Nicely set on, and long. He (in my case anyway) adds leg and height, and a puppy dog personality!

[risingstarfarm]

I love my Contucci mare. She and her 3 full brothers (owned by my trainer) all have super temperaments. They are all large, but elegant and VERY talented.

My mare is very affectionate - she loves attention and comes running to the gate when I go out to the pasture. I'm breeding her for the first time in the spring to my Ferro son. You can see her on my broodmare page - she's Capriana :-)

[Oakstable]

Cute mare.

See if any SO can share some photos of offspring out of Arabian mares.

[talloaks]

I have a Contucci mare and she is by far my favorite mare, and I have several horses. The Contucci gelding I sold to a show family is the favorite there and of the trainer. Sweet sweet horses, very nice looking, and easy to ride. Can't go wrong breeding to Contucci!!

[charger]

You can't go wrong with Contucci. I have had a number of his offspring and they have all been lovely. I have to second Freestyle as well. I have seen nothing but beautiful foals from him and he throws himself the majority of the time. You might also contact Hassler Dressage. Rousseau would be a fabulous choice.

[cyndi]

I second third and fourth the recommendation of Frohwind. I have three Frohwind offspring - two I bred, out of a very average half ARabian pinto mare I have shown for years and one a Half Arab I purchased from his breeder last year.

My oldest Frohwind is 7 and is showing second level. (She was Second Level champion at the last recognized show I took her to.) Frohwind really improved upon the mare, and her work ethic is the best in any horse i have ever owned. She was super easy to start and is very uncomplicated to ride. After my trainer put about 30 rides in her, I took over her training myself. Her name is Flying Colorz (Fling) and she has earned USDF All Breed awards from ISR/Oldenburg each level she's shown - training through second.

I liked her so much I bred the mare again, and that filly is two and is very laid back, so much so, that I climbed on her and sat on her myself (I am 50!) a few weeks ago and actually walked her around. She was very 'ho hum.'

My only registered half Arab Frohwind is Faxxsimile and he is the best of the bunch - he was a premium foal, scored a 8.2 on movement and won both his In Hand classes at the Region 9 Arabian/Half Arabian Sporthorse Championships, with the highest score of the entire 111 entries in the in-hand division. All this as a two year old! I did not take him to Sporthorse Nationals but wish I could have - just too far for me -- his full brother - two years older - went Top Ten at that show. He is a sweet, sweet fellow and I also climbed on him and sat on him the first time myself a few weeks ago.

Vanessa Carlson is super to deal with as far as breeding, their collection and shipping fees are very reasonable, and I just don't think you can go wrong breeding a good Arabian mare to Frohwind. It is a very, very proven cross.

You can see all my Frohwind offspring at my website.

[Fairview Horse Center]

I will 2nd Oakstable, see if they can send you photos, and talk to owners of similar Arab mares that have bred to him.

[carosello]

For those who are Contucci fans

I'd like to maintain or enhance her hindquarter, depth of hip, etc

Do you feel this is an area he will improve? I always got the impression the mare needed to bring this to the table as he would not.

[Kimber]

Thanks, guys for all the suggestions thus far.

I love the look of Royal Prince, and on paper he seemed perfect in every way -- he's the one I originally contacted Hilltop about. But they felt, and I agree with them after watching the videos, that Contucci's topline, neck, and shoulder would be more complementary to my mare.

Some of your suggestions, while stunning, are just too big for me to consider -- several of these boys are 17hh.

I do like the R-line horses, and had emailed High Point previously without getting a response. So I emailed again ;) and will also look into the other R horses suggested.

Seems like there are some conflicting views on Contucci's temperament, or at least what he throws. Were the nutty horses out of nutty mares? I don't mind a hot horse, as long as it's sensible, too, but nutty is not my cup of tea.

And yes, I do plan to follow up with my short-list of candidates and ask specifially about part-arab offspring. Though there are so many different arab types out there, it's still not always apples-to-apples.

Thanks for the suggestions, keep 'em coming if you think of any more!

[dogponyshow]

I agree that Contucci has a more correct neck than Royal Prince. As far as temperament goes, my mare was a witch! So temperament was paramount! And I got what I was looking for!:)

[YankeeLawyer]

Seems like there are some conflicting views on Contucci's temperament, or at least what he throws. Were the nutty horses out of nutty mares? I don't mind a hot horse, as long as it's sensible, too, but nutty is not my cup of tea.



I have never heard of Contuccis being nutty or hot until this thread. I have known several and have a Hohenstein mare (i.e., Caprimond-line) horse myself. Those lines are known for rideability and trainability. I have no idea where people are getting the idea Contucci throws temperament issues. I have personally witnessed 3 young geldings being raised from long yearling to age 5 -- and they were easy, easy to start and a pleasure to handle on the ground. All 3 were W-T-C under saddle within a month of being backed, and one was started by his amateur owner without any problem. I have no idea what more one could want.

[lilypondlane]

I've never seen a "nutty" Contucci offspring and would like to ask elmerandharriet how many he/she/they know personally. And, yes, the mare does influence temperament, among other things, but his offspring are known for their easy-going, amateur-owner personalities. I have a 2007 filly by Contucci out of my Trak mare (her third baby since I've owned her, her first by Contucci) and I can tell you this filly is the sweetest, easiest and most beautiful foal I've had yet. She's brave, inquisitive, loves everyone, and is generally just an amazing little horse. In fact, I've been so pleased with this one that I'm going to breed my mare to Contucci again in the spring.

[jmjhp]

I have a Contucci mare and she is by far my favorite mare, and I have several horses. The Contucci gelding I sold to a show family is the favorite there and of the trainer. Sweet sweet horses, very nice looking, and easy to ride. Can't go wrong breeding to Contucci!!


I agree, I have a 4 year old Contucci gelding that has a 10+ mind and is a 10+ mover( no joke!), I LOVE him. He is a big boy at 17'3, but rides very balanced not like a "big horse".

[talloaks]

I agree, I have a 4 year old Contucci gelding that has a 10+ mind and is a 10+ mover( no joke!), I LOVE him. He is a big boy at 17'3, but rides very balanced not like a "big horse".


WOW that is a big boy!!! And I think my Riverman gelding at 17-1 is big!!!:lol:

[Kiljoywashere]

Contucci can throw all over the map size wise - he has some huge get (18hh in one sales ad I saw), and at least one I know of who is just barely 15.1. With an Arab mare who isn't likely to have any "huge" genes hiding in her chromosomes, you aren't at much risk of getting something really tall.
Do you intend to present your mare to a European based registry? Or do you just intend to go with the half Arab registration?

[Kimber]

Thanks for the further replies.

Carosello -- I do not think her hindquarter is weak, or particularly in need of an "improvement sire" but in an ideal world, every part of the chosen stallion would be equal to or greater than in quality to her. I feel like her overall balance, and neck set/shoulder are more in need of improvement than her hindquarter. Contucci does not strike me as having a weak HQ, though it may not be an area where he markedly improves mares. Would you agree?

Thanks to those who have Contucci offspring for weighing in. He is lovely, and I doubt I would be disappointed if I bred to him, but I want to do my due diligence and make sure I'm making an informed decision.

[Kimber]

Kiljoy -- I do plan to have her and the foal inspected, as well as register the foal half-arab.

[risingstarfarm]

Where does one find out more information about WB stallions that are offered to the Arab Sport Horse market? I've heard that Frohwind has been very successful in this market and I had thought that I had a stallion that might be an appropriate cross for Arabian mares as well.

Can anyone point me in the right direction?

To the OP - Not trying to hijack your thread and hoping my question is pretty relevant :-)

[carosello]

Carosello -- I do not think her hindquarter is weak, or particularly in need of an "improvement sire" but in an ideal world, every part of the chosen stallion would be equal to or greater than in quality to her.

Kimber my thought was that Contucci was lacking in this area and not being able to bring it to the table. I have to admit, I have seen only a handful of Contucci's in person and they were not my type. I like sensitive but they seemed "flakey". Now they were young and not of riding age so maybe they have changed, who knows. I do like Caprimond alot though!

[contento's mum]

Elmer and harriet - the mare at Hilltop Contesse was born and raised at Hilltop and was started by Hilltop. I didn't know she ever went anywhere else. I saw her at Devon and she was not at all "nutty" - she actually showed with my colt in get of Sire. Maybe we are talking about different horses.
I too have never heard of any nutty Contucci - Contucci himself has a wonderful temperament and that is a major reason I purchased my Contucci as a foal. Mine has been sane and sensible from day one - a pleasure to be around on the ground and now also under saddle. He was so easy to start that the man starting him didn't believe me that he hadn't already been started! His calm demeanor never changes - new things , commotion, crowds ,loud music - doesn't matter just does his job.

[YankeeLawyer]

Where does one find out more information about WB stallions that are offered to the Arab Sport Horse market? I've heard that Frohwind has been very successful in this market and I had thought that I had a stallion that might be an appropriate cross for Arabian mares as well.

Can anyone point me in the right direction?

To the OP - Not trying to hijack your thread and hoping my question is pretty relevant :-)

I actually was curious about this as I have a good friend who is an Arabian breeder and was thinking of breeding her mare to Rascalino. I ran some google searches and found a few farms that have successfully crossed Hanoverians with Arabians (e.g., High Point/Rosenthal); you might also contact the Half-Arab registry and/or the AHS and ask.

[YankeeLawyer]

I like sensitive but they seemed "flakey". Now they were young and not of riding age so maybe they have changed, who knows. I do like Caprimond alot though!

Carosello, I believe you but this shocks me as all the ones I have dealt with have been really quiet, kids-can-climb-all-over-them types.

[risingstarfarm]

thanks for the suggestion YL!

[MaresNest]

I have never known a Contucci baby to be hot, but I have known several to be huge. I would personally not want to breed him to a little mare (though, yes, I do know about the Shetland/Clydesdale studies that show little mares almost always have little babies that only grow to be enormous after leaving the womb.) I am just protective of my mares and wouldn't take the risk. My 2 cents. Many will disagree, I'm sure.

I think that there was a discount on the High Point stallions for Arabian mares this year... That would be Rosenthal, Sinatra Song (who my filly has her eye on for a few years down the road!), and Davignport. Check them out. They are all lovely. Sinatra Song is my favorite, though.

[Edgewood]

If you want to see multiple photos of 2 Contucci mares (as 3 year olds) out of Banter (by Bolero - 3/4 TB blood) mares, you can go to www.rollingstonefarm.com (http://www.rollingstonefarm.com) and look under her "mares" tab, "broodmares" for Chee Chee and Chalk One Up to get and idea of the type Contucci throws with a bit more "blood" on the damside. Both of these mares are super movers, most especially Chee Chee.

Here is info on Bolero
http://www.horse-gate.com/jh/horses/en/bolero.html

[lilypondlane]

Risingstarfarm -- the ATA has a half-Arabian division and you could breed your mare to any ATA stallion. One nice thing about breeding a smaller mare to Trakehners is that they are probably the most refined of all WB's and many are under 17 h. That said, my own Ith mare had a half-brother who was 18 h at 4. BTW, a German inspector who was at DAD this year made the comment that the Trakehner is THE breed in Europe right now. Oh, and, of course, everyone knows Contucci is half Trakehner. :)

[Hocus Focus]

I saw a truly beautiful young mare in Illinois who through a pending divorce was offered very inexpensively and she was a beautiful type of mare. I believe since she had just been started their comments were that she lacked extravagance in gaits, and felt she might be suitable as a hunter prospect more so than dressage. She was a gorgeous mare, and a good sized mare.This was a year and a half ago so I am sure all this has passed. It was a troubling time for the owner who had far too many horses to deal with during a confusing time in her life.

This same mare had a full brother, a yearling gelding who looked like he might end up huge and was black with quite a bit of chrome. Moving free in the field, he definitely stood out among a group of very well bred yearlings. I did not get to see him very close but his price that day was more than fair. I was tempted but nothing in my life at that moment indicated it would be a good idea for me to have yet another horse. I have regrets.

[Oakstable]

Contucci is a bit more than 50% Trakehner as he has Absatz on the dam side.

I just re-read the bio on Contucci. Wow.

-----"Contucci commandingly won the dressage phase of his 100-day test with a score of 147.11 and six 9’s given throughout the testing. He then successfully showed in Germany, including winning a 1997 Bundeschampionat (National Breeders' Championships) qualifier with 9.2 out of 10 possible points."------

He's not the new kid on the block anymore -- his get are old enough to be out there and doing something.

I bred a 15.2H mare to him and the resulting gelding is 16.1H.

There is another son of Caprimond -- Timotheus - in the ATA. Very handsome with strong Caprimond influence. He's 16.2 plus.

Also, Dacaprio has been imported and Caprimond is the dam sire. He resembles Contucci but with four stockings, same gorgeous face. He's on Bridlewood's web site.

The Weltmeyer son Wonderful has had several very successful crosses with an Arabian mare.

Many, many nice choices of course.

[ShotenStar]

...
I too have never heard of any nutty Contucci - Contucci himself has a wonderful temperament and that is a major reason I purchased my Contucci as a foal. ....

You are welcome to meet my Contucci daughter if you want to experience large and nutty in one package ....

I love her, really I do, but she has been a challenge from day one ... hyper alert, hyper reactive, and Very Large. Not just in body size (17 hands, 1,500 pounds), but also in presence / mental energy. While I am a much better rider for having to learn to deal with her, this is not what I had planned on when I bought her as a weanling. Since her dam line is very sensible, Contucci gets the blame ....

*star*

[STF]

I love Contucci!! Ive been quiety hoping to find a broodmare that I can afford from him. He is one of my favorties!! But........... Im a cloest Trakehner lover!

[Oldenburg Mom]

Sinatra Song is my favorite, though.

Ditto, ditto and ditto. I would love to breed one of my girls to him...he's just a stunner. Did you see that video of him on Angela's site? OMGiH ... I saw it for the first time, couldn't believe it, then had to go back and watch it a dozen times more! :lol:

As far as the "hot" or "not hot" or "nuts" or "not nuts" debate, I think no matter where you go you can always find someone who didn't get the cross they expected. That's just one of the elements that makes breeding so fascinating--and so difficult. Take a mare, breed it to a stallion and get a $100,000 baby. Do the same cross, same mare, same stallion ... get a $10,000 baby. Nothing's certain in this world but death and taxes. :lol:

[siegi b.]

I agree that out of the Hilltop line-up, Contucci would be the best stallion for your mare.... However, that doesn't mean that there aren't other stallions that may be a slightly better fit. I agree with having some Trakehner blood in the stallion in order to keep the foal from getting too heavy. I do think that Rosenthal and De Laurentis (sp?) from Highpoint Hanoverians would be good matches - they both have Trakehner in their background - and I also believe that at least one of them is homzygous for the black gene which means you could only get bay or black (if that makes a difference).

On the pure Trakehner side I like Tzigane, Herzzauber, and a few others. Go to
http://www.americantrakehner.com/
and check out the stallions for more information.

Now if you're open to using frozen semen.... :-) the possibilities are endless! :-)

[YankeeLawyer]

On the pure Trakehner side I like Tzigane, Herzzauber, and a few others. Go to
http://www.americantrakehner.com/
and check out the stallions for more information.

Now if you're open to using frozen semen.... :-) the possibilities are endless! :-)

I *love* Herzzauber.

[Kimber]

Wow, lots of good info from everyone -- thanks! I'm adding more boys to the list of possibilites, sending more emails to stallion owners.

Yes, I am open to using frozen, so that may change things a little. Bottom line, I want the best possible match for Stella. I realize there is no one "right answer", but I would like to narrow down to a handful of exceptional possibilites, and then pick the one that appeals to me the most (you know, prettiest tail, or maybe use the blind "pin the tail on the stallion" method :lol:).

[YankeeLawyer]

Here is a link to a filly by Contucci and out of an Arabian mare:

http://www.crsporthorses.com/contessaorzel.html

Here is a link to pics of several super foals by High point stallions (Rosenthal and Delaurentis) out of Arabian mares (click on link and scroll down):

http://www.mcadoophotos.com/tobruk_farm.htm

The website says that one of the mares has been bred to Sinatra Song for an 08 foal, and the others were bred back to Delaurentis.

[Crosiadore Farm]

I saw a beautiful foal by De Laurentis out of a small Arab mare at the Oldenburg Inspection at High Point this summer. The foal was so good he was classfied a "stallion prospect" for the Weser Ems.....Oldenburg GOV Pony Registry. Very impressive foal. After seeing this foal, I am seriously considering breeding my Herzzauber mare to De Laurentis at some point. So don't think you can go wrong with De Laurentis. And Da Caprio shares the same dam as De Laurentis, so he is also probably a good bet. My Herzzauber mare, who is now doing breeding duties, is a blast to ride. Expressive gaits that are very comfortable to sit. So Herzzauber is also a favorite!

Good luck.

[talloaks]

At the Chestnut Lawn Farm inspection this year there was a wonderful colt by Stedinger out of an arab mare who scored 8.3 and was premium. I think he did really well at Devon this year too.
Update, I believe the Stedinger/Arab cross colt won the Arabian class at Devon and was second in the OldenburgNA class! Not too shabby at all!! ;-)

[ljshorses]

I have bred a few Arabian mares to warmbloods. As for size, most Arabians even if lacking height tend to have a wide pelvis area. This wide pelvis is helpful for delivering foals. I never had a problem with a too big foal for any of my Arabian mares and I have bred to some big stallions. This year one Arabian mare produced a Gold Premium at his RPSI inspection and he was 2nd at his Dressage at Devon Arabian class! He is a beautiful mover and is by the Hanoverian Scimitar. The other colt out of an Arabian mare this year is by Iron Man and was very close to Gold Premium (just 2/10s off) and also is a lovely mover (has not shown as yet). I am expecting an Art Deco baby next year out of my Arabian mare that produced the Gold Premium this year, can't wait. If that is a filly I hope to keep it!!! Here are pics of the 2 colts from this year.

[Oldenburg Mom]

Here are pics of the 2 colts from this year.

I'm going to have to send this link to Christine!!!! WOW! What a stride ... on BOTH of them. ;)

[ljshorses]

I'm going to have to send this link to Christine!!!! WOW! What a stride ... on BOTH of them. ;)

Ah...beat you to it. I also sent her pics of the other colt she handled for me... I love Christine, she is the best!

[Oldenburg Mom]

I love Christine, she is the best!

Me too! This year she did a particularly fine job for me ...

[TKR]

If you like the TK-Arab cross, take a long look at Oskar II -- totally gorgeous with the long legs, beautiful mover and type. My filly by him is just spectacular and a female version of him, already pushing 13.2 at 5 months. She is out of a very nice TB mare (16.0H).
PennyG

[carosello]

At the Chestnut Lawn Farm inspection this year there was a wonderful colt by Stedinger out of an arab mare who scored 8.3 and was premium. I think he did really well at Devon this year too.


BUT I would not breed to Stedinger hoping for a smaller package as he seems to be throwing large more often then not. But I love him none the less.

If you go frozen I would love the idea of King Arthur (if he is available???) http://www.elitedressagestallions.co.uk/stallions-king-arthur.htm
I have not heard if he is passing on a lot of size though.

[carosello]

OK another thought...what about Harvard?

http://www.pangaeafarm.com/stallion/stallion.htm

http://www.pangaeafarm.com/stallion/harvard.htm

[tempichange]

I've talked to Hilltop recently over breeding my arabian mare and they're more than helpful in trying to find a selection that works, I suggest you do the same and make a trip up there.

[Riva]

I would also suggest Tantris. His best crosses are his arab crosses. He throws lovely conformation and a sweet personality onto his foals.

Here is his website: http://www.turningpointfarm.net/Tantris.htm
Jeanne is wonderful to deal with.

I also second Scimitar. What a wonderful boy! Great personality and I can attest to the fact that LJS's colt is just incredible!! :)

[YankeeLawyer]

I also second Scimitar. What a wonderful boy! Great personality and I can attest to the fact that LJS's colt is just incredible!! :)

Re Scimitar -- I just saw an ad from his farm (Enavant) offering 5 half-price breedings to Scimitar and to Innkeeper to the first 5 contracts for each one:

http://ewarmbloods.net/phpbb/viewtopic.php?t=21026

www.enavantstud.com

[Donella]

RICCIONE!!! Cant get much of a better neck set (or entire front end) than that..and from what I am hearing, he throws it. Plus, the damsire is very "pretty" and trakehner(Arogno). I think he would fit perfect with what you are looking for.
Here is a link:
http://www.brookhousestud.com/_le/hengst-det.php?id=12

Kyla

[DownYonder]

...Da Caprio shares the same dam as De Laurentis, so he is also probably a good bet.

Actually, their dams are full sisters.

There are lots of good suggestions on this thread. It's hard to go wrong with Contucci, although he does work best with a mare with very good hindquarters. That said, I haven't seen too many Contucci offspring with really flaky temperaments - most of the ones I have been around are good, solid citizens, with very good rideability. Some are obviously more quirky than others, but we have to remember that every horse has a mother, too.

I will also second the recommendations for Rosenthal and DeLaurentis. Both of those stallions seem to be crossing very nicely with Arabian mares.

[molliwog]

I've seen several Contucci babies locally here. A couple of them have definitely been on the hotter side, but still quite sensible. The judges loved them, any of them could come home in my trailer. I'm mindful, though, that hotter horses don't always suffer fools well, or thrive with riders that aren't totally confident in their own ability. None of these horses would have done well with the "hold 'em in front and kick till they go on the bit" type of training philosophy. (And fortunately, none of these horses were ridden that way.)

The dams of all of these foals were a wide variety of bloodlines- and the smaller the dam, the smaller the offspring. However, each of the foals seemed to be stamped with Contucci's lovely head and neck, and wonderful elasticity.

My Hohenstein mare is very closely related to Contucci, and she definitely on the hotter side but very honest and sensible. I feel so lucky that I get to ride her every day. I bred her to an A-line stallion several years ago, and the resulting baby (now 5) is a blast to ride. Very willing to go, but not nearly as hot as his mother.

[talloaks]

If you want to bred to an absolutely stunning Trak try Herzensdieb!!! Talk about perfect conformation!! He happens to be a Contucci great grand son too!!

[Janice]

I have 2 Contucci mares(full sisters) They are physically different but the temperment is the same. VERY sensible and the easiest foals I've ever raised. Their mom is 1/4 arabian, 1/2 TB and 1/4? She was 15.1H
One of them is smaller 15.3H at 4 yrs and the other is 16.1 at 6 yrs. The older mare had a lovely filly by Royal Prince in 2006. Both have done well at breed show and the 2001 mare went to the materiale class at Devon this year( her first show).


http://www.rockspring.homestead.com/devon07.html
http://www.rockspring.homestead.com/fairhill07.html

[mbamissaz]

I've have hands on training experience with 5 Contucci's....all very smart and sensible. Some were a bit more sensitive than others but ALL were "sensible" and not "flaky". I personally own a 5 yr old Contucci and he is an absolute pleasure to deal with...

http://community.webshots.com/album/171536731vnyviZ

Hilltop also does an amazing job of helping out owners of their stallions' offspring (ie. showing at breed shows, including Devon) etc. I don't think you'd be disappointed in choosing Contucci for your mare.

[Landonn's mom]

For arabian mares, we offer sizeable discounts to first time breeders. Landonn has had such a nice response with Arabian mare owners, and the foals are exceptionally well bred, with wonderful temperments, we can afford to discount the service fee in order to promote him in the half-arabian market.

In up coming years, many half-arabian prospects will be competing at sport horse nationals by this young stallion.

New video of a foal and numerous half-arabian pictures of the cross competing this past year in USDF, can be seen on our website.

Good Luck in your search.

www.bluebrookfarm.com

[Kimber]

You guys are full of great info and suggestions.

There are truly, truly a dizzying array of stallioins out there to choose from. Between looking up all the boys you're suggesting, and then exploring registry and breeder sites from there, my head is spinning! Once I started looking at european sites, Ay Caramba!

Many, many stallions out there that look like great candidates. I'm trying to pare it down, though, by keeping my original 16.2hh restriction in place, and perhaps stay with a US stallion this first time around.

[Oakstable]

Kimber,
I think Contucci is 16.3 plus. Easy enough to check.

He certainly produces a high percentage of liver chestnuts, doesn't he?

[talloaks]

Kimber,
I think Contucci is 16.3 plus. Easy enough to check.

He certainly produces a high percentage of liver chestnuts, doesn't he?


My two Contucci offspring are bright chestnuts with lots of bling. One is out of a liver chestnut mare too. So no liver chestnut here!!;)

[YankeeLawyer]

One of my favorite Contuccis is a small bay one that Mbamissaz's family used to own. I should have bought that one!

[lilypondlane]

My Contucci baby is a bright bay with three white socks and a small star. Her dam is a dark bay. And, yes, Hilltop is THE BEST from a MO's point of view, during the entire breeding process. They handled my filly at the ISR/Oldenburg inspection and again at Devon and I could not have been more pleased. Every member of the staff is so knowledgeable, friendly and helpful, just going the extra mile in every way.

[talloaks]

Have you noticed the new stud fees on Contucci and the other stallions at Hilltop??? The prices are so much better with the new management!!Just love it!!!:)

[Edgewood]

Have you noticed the new stud fees on Contucci and the other stallions at Hilltop??? The prices are so much better with the new management!!Just love it!!!:)

Well...hmmm. How are (we/you) to know that the "new" management is responsible? Even if Scott/Susanne were still there, Hilltop might have lowered their fees. In the end, I am sure the Jane M really makes a lot of these decisions since she is the owner (and pretty involved - at least always in attendance at horse shows). She obviously has been and is the ultimate decision maker. Maybe it was just the competition with so many other stallions in the US now that caused them to lower their fees - not just the "new management".

[talloaks]

Well...hmmm. How are (we/you) to know that the "new" management is responsible? Even if Scott/Susanne were still there, Hilltop might have lowered their fees. In the end, I am sure the Jane M really makes a lot of these decisions since she is the owner (and pretty involved - at least always in attendance at horse shows). She obviously has been and is the ultimate decision maker. Maybe it was just the competition with so many other stallions in the US now that caused them to lower their fees - not just the "new management".


Kris, are you trying to make an issue out of this??? I am rather shocked at your reply. :eek:I am only saying that the stud fee prices have been lowered, and also they have removed the additional fee for credit card use which Hassler Dressage still has in place with their stallions. Yes I am aware that Jane makes the final decisions but perhaps she is getting some different feedback for marketing from her new employees.

[Kimber]

Doh! How did I manage to overlook the fact that Contucci is ginormous! I can't believe I didn't double/triple check that when I go tthe video. shoot. <sigh> He's lovely, though.

I will continue to follow up on all your suggestions. I think based on size, Contucci gets bumped into runner-up standing for now.

[Edgewood]

Kris, are you trying to make an issue out of this??? I am rather shocked at your reply. :eek:I am only saying that the stud fee prices have been lowered, and also they have removed the additional fee for credit card use which Hassler Dressage still has in place with their stallions. Yes I am aware that Jane makes the final decisions but perhaps she is getting some different feedback for marketing from her new employees.

Well, I don't want to derail or start anything. But I know that others may have read it like I did (and most likely not as you actually meant talloaks) and so I replied. We honestly do not know why they lowered the fees.

Maybe we just leave it at "did anyone notice that they lowered the stallion fees? That is great!". I really like Hilltop and the Hasslers and have worked with both, and wish all the best. No harm intended to you - it is just that in writing (without hearing a person speak or the voice inflection) wrong assumptions can be made - which in this case were unjustified now that I understand your statements more clearly now that you clarfied.:D

[Janice]

The Hilltop stud fees are lower BUT the collection fee is higher. That can get expensive if you need several colections.

[talloaks]

The Hilltop stud fees are lower BUT the collection fee is higher. That can get expensive if you need several colections.

Janice you are correct about the collection fees being more expensive. They have at least doubled since I picked up a collection in 2006. Also notice that Select Breeders Service is now in charge of the collections and it is their fees. Well, just have to hope that your mare gets in foal with one collection.

[Tiki]

The collection fees LOOK higher, but they now incude round trip shipping of the container - which used to be a separate charge.

Contucci is 16.3 1/2h and he produces a great proportion of horses that grow to 17h or higher.

Although he is a very nice stallion - and I got a very nice, Premium foal by him, my mare had a hind end like a polo pony. He is KNOWN to have a weak hind end, and will definitely pass it on if your mare is not strong in that area. Cross with a Arab? who 99% of the time have a very straight hind leg, high croup, unable to bring the hind feet under??? I don't think so.

Frohwind is a known good cross for an Arab. Probably also Ideal who is half Anglo Arab, also Mannhattan (http://www.avalon-equine.com/mannhattan.htm) - he's produced some really nice crosses with Arabs and half Arabs - as well as many of the others listed here, but Contucci would be my last choice - unless you're only ever going to look at the head and neck and ooooh and aaaaah over that part only.

[Ride'emCO]

I have never heard of Contuccis being nutty or hot until this thread. I have known several and have a Hohenstein mare (i.e., Caprimond-line) horse myself. Those lines are known for rideability and trainability. I have no idea where people are getting the idea Contucci throws temperament issues. I have personally witnessed 3 young geldings being raised from long yearling to age 5 -- and they were easy, easy to start and a pleasure to handle on the ground. All 3 were W-T-C under saddle within a month of being backed, and one was started by his amateur owner without any problem. I have no idea what more one could want.

I have a Contucci gelding, purchased from the same breeder as one of YL's babies, and full sibling to YL's favorite. :) He has been the EASIEST baby to deal with since the day I got him as a yearling (he's 4 now) - quiet, sweet, reasonable and a very quick study. He also has a lovely topline, given to him by his sire. :yes: He's currently 16hh, and looks like he's about to grow again.

I've also never heard of Contucci's being hot until this thread.

[Oakstable]

One source for reviewing sires crossing with Arabians is the listing of premium foals in the ONA web site.

It's not complete.

Some of the older premiums are not listed. I had two who do not appear.

Still, you can scan for babies out of Arabian mares.

[talloaks]

One source for reviewing sires crossing with Arabians is the listing of premium foals in the ONA web site.

It's not complete.

Some of the older premiums are not listed. I had two who do not appear.

Still, you can scan for babies out of Arabian mares.

The ISR/OLDNA website only has the current champion, reserve champion and in some cases 3rd place premium foals, colts and fillies, from the various inspection sites this year. I do not know if all the inspection sites are represented yet on the website. There is no list of all the premium foals on the website nor has there ever been one. All foals will be listed in the Breeders Guide which comes out in 2008. Or if you want to check on previous foals you could check the Breeders Guide from other years.

[talloaks]

the contucci mare i am talking about at hilltop was bred at gypsywood where george williams trains at and is out of galatea i believe and was sold as a weanling to my trainer and she sold her bc she was nuts to a young lady at hilltop and the mares name is contessa not contesse


Which breed registry is Contessa with??? My mare by Contucci is named Contessa and she was foaled in 1999, one of his first foals. She is fabulous all the way around, my favorite mare!!:) She is registered Oldenburg.

[contento's mum]

Thanks for clarifying things Elmer and Harriet - yes it seems we were talking about different mares. Contesse is out of Athena - she is on the hilltop sales page so I'm glad we cleared up that she is not nutty. I'm sure the Hilltop people don't want people being turned off their horses just because of a misunderstanding. I guess there are a lot of very similar C names out there. And Talloaks Contessa is absolutely beautiful - I admired her before I even got my Contucci. Definitely a different Contessa!

[Clear Blue]

Have you noticed the new stud fees on Contucci and the other stallions at Hilltop??? )

Some of the stud fees are almost half of what they were previously (Cor Noir at $1200., more than a few at $800.). I agree it is a great opportunity for North Amercian breeders.

Thanks Hilltop!