A not so nice topic... euthanizing unwanted foal (Update pg. 18, not pregnant!)

[alter_E_go]

Obviously, I am posting under an alter because I don't want to seem like some kind of monster.

I have a now 2 year old filly who I am fearing may be pregnant. The vet is going to check her next week while out on a routine farm call.

Last fall I had moved all my horses to a different farm temporarily. The filly was about a year and a half at the time. Moving my horses to this farm proved to be a big mistake, and I moved out of there very quickly. But not before I discovered that the barn owner was turning my filly out with a mare and her unweaned, ungelded yearling colt. I was not aware of this until after it had already happened.

While I was pissed off at the time, I was not too concerned about pregnancy. My filly was easily 3 hands bigger than this colt and had never shown any mareish behavior. Nor did I ever see the colt acting studdy. Plus, my filly showed signs of heat all through the spring. I had completely forgotten about the incident until the other day, when I noticed she looks like she is developing a bag. Upon closer inspection, she has also lost a lot of tone in her vulva. And her tail has NO resistance. Darn it.

So the vet will be out next week, but in the meantime I am freaking out. I'm concerned about the risks of my 2 year old delivering a foal. But an even bigger problem in my mind is that I DO NOT WANT THIS FOAL.

First, I cannot financially support an additional horse right now, let alone a foal who will need IgG's, all it's vaccinations series, and so on. My farm is not set up to raise a foal, either.

But an even bigger problem in my mind is that I feel this foal will be completely useless to me. The potential "sire," if you can even call him that, was an UGLY, unregistered, incorrect, growth-stunted TWH/QH colt. The filly in question is a registered dressage prospect. I do not have any use for a fugly WB/TWH/QH, and I doubt many others do. And I honestly don't want to waste my money raising a useless foal I don't want until weaning time. I'm sorry if that makes me sound snotty, but it's the truth.

So this brings me to the question at hand. It's way too late to terminate the pregnancy, but I'm thinking of asking the vet the euthanize the foal upon delivery. But I am worried the vet and anyone else who finds out about this will think I am a horrid person. I know this choice would not go over well with most people.

I can't think of another solution. I could try to find someone to take the foal in as a bucket baby, but the chances of that are probably pretty slim. Raising orphans is expensive. And as I keep saying, I do not want this foal. Nor do I think it is necessarily my responsibility since it was an unwanted, accidental pregnancy.

Suggestions? Opinions?

I hope next week I find out that I don't have to make this choice.

[hitchinmygetalong]

Suggestion: Tell your vet EXACTLY what you have said here.

Opinion: I wouldn't want to be in your shoes. Ever. But I don't think you are out of line in wanting to euthanize the foal. I honestly do not know what I would do if I found myself in the same situation. I will send mighty jingles your way that it will not come to that. I hope your poor filly is just "pleasingly plump" and not preggers at all.

Please keep us updated.

[JoZ]

Wow. Not "you're horrible" wow, just... this is a real dilemma. I know I wouldn't and couldn't euthanize a healthy foal at birth. Who knows, the foal could take both parents' best qualities (remember, "stunted" isn't hereditary) and be a real charmer.

I have one of those myself. My YEARLING filly was impregnated by the farm owner's mustang stallion. The colt (a gelding of course!) is now 2-1/2 and a wonderful animal. He did indeed seem to blend the best of both. But at the time I would've done anything to turn back time and avoid the whole ugly situation.

I would never presume to tell someone what they can afford or what they want to deal with. And I am well aware that a mixed breed, unwanted foal is not at the top of the list for a smooth cruise through life. Lastly, I do not want horses grouped with domestic pets, so as livestock you should be free to do what you want as long as it is humane. On the other hand (this is the third hand now, I think) there is no way to stop public opinion and you very well may be castigated. I do not envy you this decision, and I hope you find you do not have to make it.

I also hope you are not in Washington or I'll find myself standing by with a bucket and igloo cooler... :eek:

[magnolia73]

With how many unwanted horses float around, euthanize the foal unless the owners of the stud want it. Not to be all Un-PC, but we allow humans to have abortions, the pound puts down gobs of puppies and kittens.

There will be people who think life is a disney movie and that your foal will be the next Olympic Gold Medalist and probably think you are awful- if any of those show up, they could pay for the foal and take it.

[BeastieSlave]

I couldn't do it :no:
Can you talk to the folks at the farm where your gal was and see if they'll step up and support/adopt the foal if she is indeed pregnant?

Just an aside, that ugly colt might not really be so bad.... babies usually go through some pretty rough phases.

Good luck!

[SillyHorse]

I don't think you're terrible. I think you're faced with the possibility of dealing with a terrible situation, and I understand your feelings. Right now, I will just keep my fingers crossed that your filly is not in foal. If she is, I don't blame you for wanting to euthanize the foal. The slaughterhouses don't need more horses.

[BuddyRoo]

It's called being a realist. Not a monster.

I'd talk to your vet exactly as you've done here.

Now, you also have an option...you could call around and see if anyone wants the critter--university, etc.

[Trot Left]

I am with you on this one. Tell the vet what you have in mind, if vet thinks your a monster then kindly offer the foal to your vet and see how his/her attitude will change.

This was not your intentions for your mare. BO was wrong for putting your filly in with a potential situation with the colt.

[mephistopheles]

Well, where are you? I'd hate to see an innocent life lost, and I have a bit of room at the in... My mother will most likely try and strangle me, but even she couldn't say no in this situation.

[caffeinated]

Is there a way to hold the stallion owners responsible, at least in terms of the financial part of the picture for newborn horse care, vet care for the mare, etc?

I'm just trying to think of ways around euthanasia. On the other hand, it's not the worst thing that can happen to the foal, and it's a logical conclusion given all you've said. I'm just such a softy, it's hard to imagine not even giving little muttkins a chance, were I in your shoes.

Lesson learned, even when you think it's not possible, it pays to get mares checked if they're ever in the situation this mare was in...

[asb_own_me]

I couldn't do it :no:
Can you talk to the folks at the farm where your gal was and see if they'll step up and support/adopt the foal if she is indeed pregnant?

From the OP it sounds as though things were "rough" at this farm. I wouldn't want to send another horse to them, if that were the case.

To the OP - I say kudos to you for making this tough decision. I completely support your choice to euthanize. I think it's the mature decision when faced with this particular set of circumstances, and it certainly seems to be the best decision for you. My only concern, if I were in your shoes, would be for my mare.

[MistyBlue]

My sympathies for being stuck in such a crappy situation.
I know *very* little about nurse mares and am only guessing 100% here...but nurse mare places have ways of finding homes for non-weaned foals. Are there any of those types of places near yoou at all that you can call and brainstorm with? I'm not saying definitely keep the pregnancy viable and foal out the mare...but if the mare is pregnant and euth-ing or aborting turns out to be a non-option...maybe a nurse mare place can offer at least some helpful suggestions.
If you look online...there are places that do this as a business and rehome foals. Maybe an e-mail or phone call to them can unearth some helpful info.

[trubandloki]

It's called being a realist. Not a monster.

I'd talk to your vet exactly as you've done here.

Now, you also have an option...you could call around and see if anyone wants the critter--university, etc.

I agree!

I would also make the stupid barn owner from the other place pay all your vet bills (if your mare is pregnant).

[Thomas_1]

Personally, I couldn't and wouldn't ever put down a healthy horse.

I would however have an unwanted foal aborted.

I would never choose to hand rear a foal. And I've got one of my own now! Though his dam died tragically foaling him. Hand rearing a foal is hard and its not for the faint hearted or the amature with little experience.

[ponygrl]

I couldn't do it :no:
Can you talk to the folks at the farm where your gal was and see if they'll step up and support/adopt the foal if she is indeed pregnant?

Just an aside, that ugly colt might not really be so bad.... babies usually go through some pretty rough phases.

Good luck!

does this mean we should start getting "foal support" from stallion owners?


OP - it sounds like you want to do the right thing. With a horse of that breeding if you sold the theoretical foal down the road you don't know where it will end up. I wouldn't call you a monster at all.

[SmartAlex]

If you can't pre-adopt it, then go with your gut. Don't let the mare see it, slip it around the corner, and take care of it before you have a chance to re-think the decision you have carefully made.

There are too many unwanted , and neglected horses out there already. Babies are a huge responsibility and a disruption even when you want them.

[kml84]

What a horrible situation.....

I don't think it would be wrong of you to put down the foal. You have made it clear you are not prepared to deal with a foal so it wouldn't be fair to the foal to be kept around. See if you could donate the foal to a school, pony club, 4-H horse group that could could give it a GOOD home and that has people who are prepared to raise a foal. If that doesn't work out.....you have your other option.

[lindac]

I wouldn't put the foal down. It's not his/her fault. Try to find a home for it or see if a rescue organization will take it.

The TWH part shouldn't deter you. There was an Olympic level Dressage horse, Bao, that was part TWH. Maybe it will be nice horse for someone.

[M.K.Smith]

I wouldn't want to be in your shoes and I couldn't "kill" a healthy foal. Of course, it's not my choice.

My mare had an un-planned pregnancy. I knew there was potential for pregnancy and had her palpated. The vet said she wasn't pregnant... 100% sure. Had I know she was pregnant, I would have terminated the pregnancy as long it was not harful to the mare.

We found out a month before she foaled that she was pregnant. I was worried about the baby being 'ugly' or 'odd' because it's a unique cross.

The resulting foal is fantastic. He's had nothing but compliments (some from people that I really respect as horse people/ breeders.) He has the nicest disposition and is so much like his sire and gave me reason to keep his sire a stallion.

I love foals and it's a while since we've had one around and he's such a delight!

I personally couldn't bring myself to euthanize a healthy foal... but like I said, it's not my choice.

I would look for alternatives... would a rescue take the foal after weaning? When I was in 4-H, there were horses donated every year and they selected worthy kids... some of them were weanlings and yearlings. I agree that the cross is pretty bizzare (I'm not a fan of gaited horses crossed with non-gaited horses), but it could be a perfect family type/ 4-H/ trail horse. Heck, your vet may even have some suggestions or alternatives.

If I were in your shoes... which I'm not... I'd look outside of the box and find a good home for the foal at weaning time.

I hope your mare has a successful foaling and I would be concerned at her foaling at 2 there is the potential for complications.

I wish you the best of luck... I wouldn't want your decision sitting on my shoulders... I can live with terminating a pregnancy... I can't live with terminating a healthy life.... but that is me...

[islandhorse]

I would support your decision to humanely euthanize the unborn foal.

There are too many unwanted beautiful registered horses out there heading for the slaughterhouse.

I think a poor conformation "mutt" horse will end up in the slaughterhouse, sooner or later.

We do not put the same value on animals as we do an humans. If we did, we wouldn't euthanize so many unwanted dogs and cats. Can you imagine if we did that to unwanted children/homeless people? Not sure if it's better or not, but euthanizing an animal is an easier decision to swallow.

If anyone disagrees with your decision, they can pay for all costs and sign a contract to give the horse a proper home for it's entire life.

[JoZ]

Oh and one other thing. Don't assume the foal will be unhealthy (and require a lot of medical intervention) just because the sire wasn't cared for. My filly delivered her colt right around her SECOND birthday, after having been ill and receiving all sorts of medicine because we didn't know she was pregnant. Steroids, DMSO, you name it. Foal's immunities were excellent and he has always had perfect, uncomplicated health.

[SLW]

What a pickle for you. I really hope she is not bred and if she is bred, I pray the foal has a condition which makes euthanasia the kindest solution because then your situation would have resolved itself humanely.

But if she is bred and the foal is born healthy & thriving, it's not the end of the world having a WB/TW/QTR cross foal, the key is to find a taker for it ASAP. Quarter horse weanlings w/ papers are going for $20-25 at weekly sales with my point being it's a tough time to have foals for sale unless they are really a mover and shaker type of foal. Ditto other stock type foals and Arabians. The cross you may have could go along to become a hunting or driving horse and that is the person I would target to look at it.

You didn't set out to breed a fugly foal and half the problem w/ fugly horses is that they have no training or manners because of the backyard owner/breeder "Penny Pincher" sales flyer mentality, your none of that. An ordinary to ugly looking horse that is a good citizen and easy to work with can have a good useful life.

Just my two cents and good luck.

[horseandhound]

[QUOTE=alter_E_go;2761984]Obviously, I am posting under an alter because I don't want to seem like some kind of monster.


"But an even bigger problem in my mind is that I feel this foal will be completely useless to me. The potential "sire," if you can even call him that, was an UGLY, unregistered, incorrect, growth-stunted TWH/QH colt. The filly in question is a registered dressage prospect. I do not have any use for a fugly WB/TWH/QH, and I doubt many others do. And I honestly don't want to waste my money raising a useless foal I don't want until weaning time. I'm sorry if that makes me sound snotty, but it's the truth."


Sounds like you'd be of a different mind set if your mare had been accidentally bred to an approved stallion. What a shame you see it as raising a "useless foal" because of the breeding.

Here's to hoping she's not bred.

[sublimequine]

I'd find someone to adopt the foal. There's gotta be some organization or rescue who would take it.

Just because a horse is a mutt doesn't automatically make it useless. I know lots and lots of young girls who would take a QH/TB/Shire/Pony/Arab cross in a heartbeat. If it has a mane to braid and a mouth to give treats to, that's good enough for them.

Could also be a companion horse. Or a therapy horse. Or a trail horse. There's a lot of options for a mutt.

[Terrie]

I'm not sure where I stand on this yet. I know I couldn't do it if the foal was healthy.

Something no one else has brought up yet that is my main concern. If you do decide to keep it and donate after weaning like others mentioned.....where are you going to foal her out. You already mentioned that your farm is not setup for a foal. That is a big red flag right there.

I guess you can see if anyone would want the foal under the conditions that they actually foal out your mare at a barn setup for that and then keep them through weaning. That might be a tough sell though.

Although I would bet there are some people out there that would love a WB cross and would be willing to take a chance on the little guy.

Keep us posted for sure and good luck in your decision.

[Ibex]

Sorry for you dilemma...

BUT (flame suit on)

Better a quick and painless passing than to end up on a feed lot. I think you're being responsible, not heartless.

[EqTrainer]

I have been overwhelmed this week with pleas from people to buy for next to nothing, or just take, their horses. Given the status of slaughter right now, the droughts and floods, this is only going to get worse.

I am hearing the same thing from other people.

In another time I might have said to give it a chance. Today I think I am going to say, euthanize it. A hard and horrible decision to make but probably the best thing overall.

The world is a tough place right now. Ouch.

[Phaxxton]

I don't know what I personally would do in this situation. I doubt I could euthanize the foal...

That said, I think there are far worse fates for animals than euthanasia in today's world.

[hey101]

Can you have the vet euthanize it "in-utero" when he comes out next week to palpate? And then give some kind of drug that will initiate contractions/ labor to have it delivered still-born?

Sorry for your dilemma, it is a tough one.

[thumbsontop]

Hmm... tough decision. I think you have reason to be ticked off. I would like to think I wouldn't come across so cold about it, but I'm not in the situation so I don't know. You may also find that the vet has ethical reasons not to put the foal down.

If I were in that situation I would ask my vet to pass the word on that the foal is available and call the local 4-H club or a rescue and offer the foal up for adoption. You might find that it wouldn't be difficult to find someone with a nursing broodmare that wants to adopt it. If not, then the decision to euthanize may not be so bad...hmm...what about donating it to a teaching vet hospital? At least they can learn from it.

I don't agree though with not letting the mare see it - she needs to sniff the body so that she understands. It offers a sense of closure and would be nearly impossible anyhow.

[J Swan]

It's a personal decision. Discuss the matter with your vet and make the decision that is right for you.

If you decide to keep the foal, rest assured all those who would condemn you for euthanizing it will disappear into the woodworks - leaving you to fend for yourself.

Perhaps your vet might have a solution that none of us have thought of.

Shelter workers have to do this sort of thing all the time. Purebred or mutt, puppy or kitten, healthy or sick - they get euthanized. That doesn't make it right - just pointing out that it is a very sad reality.

(I've got a puppy and VERY young mother sitting at my feet as we speak - they'd be dead if a place hadn't been found to foster them. The puppy is going to its permanent home on Sunday; I've yet to find a home for the mother)

Anti-slaughter people are always insisting that unwanted horses should just be euthanized instead of sent to auction. I think what you're dealing with is the fact that euthanizing an unwanted horse is not a simple, pain free, guiltless decision. Perhaps there is a part of you that thinks if you sent the weanling to auction it might stand a chance of being bought as a riding horse. I don't know.

The responsible decision is rarely easy to bear. Best of luck to you.

[LLDM]

This is a very difficult situation, and I am very sorry you find yourself in it. The FIRST thing you need to do is to verify IF she is indeed pregnant. Get the vet out ASAP - you have to know what you are dealing with. Then count back to last Fall and determine to the best of your knowledge BOTH the earliest and latest possible dates of conception.

You need to determine, first and foremost, the risk to your filly. Then, how far along she is (if she is). And then, if it is safer to allow her to deliver or to abort her at this late date.

Unfortunately, there are no good outcomes at this stage (unless it is a false alarm <crosses fingers for you>). Whatever you decide, please take into account that your mare will be attached to this foal and prepare yourself for her reaction, whatever you decide.

FWIW - I do not think you are a monster at all. I think you are being brutally honest with yourself and very realistic. I also think you did the right thing by posting. If there is any chance that someone here is in a viable position to take on this foal (assuming that it goes to term and is born healthy), hopefully it can be worked out to give it the best possible chance at a good life. The longer the mother and foal could remain together, the better. At the very least, 24 hours - the best case scenario would be 3 months. If someone could pick up the bills, would that be a possibility?

Again, I am so sorry you are in such a difficult position.

SCFarm

[arabhorse2]

There are far worse things than euthanasia for an unwanted, unplanned foal.

You do what is necessary for you, and ignore all the bleeding hearts. After all, it's not their money or time that'll go into the raising and training of this foal, or trying to find it a home after it's weaned.

There are good, usable riding horses being offered for free right now because of the drought and hay situations. Can we seriously believe that someone's going to want an untrained, perhaps completely unusable foal?

[SandyUHC]

I understand your position BUT with some research and a little luck it does not cost that much to get a foal to weaning age, and some hot tape and a solar charger can make just about any area foal-safe. Thinking about the heartbreak a mare goes through with a stillborn foal then I'd be inclined to try to give it a chance and work hard at finding it a home by the time it is a few months old.

Meanwhile, a big smack to the idiot BO who put you in this position.

[greysandbays]

I wouldn't kill a healthy foal from one of my mares no matter what the accidental sire was. But then my mares are all "keepsake mares", most of whom I owned their mothers (and sometimes their grandmothers).

And then there's Murphey's Law combined with Karma -- if I go around killing foals just becasue I don't like the idea of the foal, sure as god made little green apples, I'm gonna lose one I really wanted later.

That said, it's your mare. You can kill her baby if you want to.

BTW, just because having foals CAN be expensive, it doesn't HAVE to be. There's a lot of expensive stuff that gets done because it makes the owner feel better, not because it does the foal any good.

[Stacie]

I do not think you are a Monster. However, most of the reasons to *not* breed a young horse seem to be moot at this point, if she is going to go ahead and foal out regardless. As long as you keep her well fed while she is lactating, then the after foaling issues can be minimal.

I wonder how much extra cost and trouble the foal will really be? A friend bought a little mare to use as a lesson horse and she turned out to be pregnant. She didn't really have to do anything other than give her the foaling shots a month before the possible due date. But then again, she had some big stalls she could use for foaling. You can just put mare and baby back in with the herd anyway, so I'm not sure you need a special setup. Leave the mare and foal out if you don't have a big enough stall. No reason to do anything special. No reason to even do IGs either, if you don't plan on supplementing with colostrum.

Personally, I'd let the mare foal out and if baby is robust and does well, good for her and if she gets sick, then I'd decide whether I wanted to put any money into her other than routine vaccinations.

In any event, get Mom on some serious Mare supplement so she isn't depleted in calcium and copper while she is growing.

Oh, and I'd keep all the receipts for expenses and sue the BOs sorry behind for all the trouble.

And I'm sorry this happened to you. Happened to me with a 2 year old, but I caught it early and aborted the fetus at about 3 months. So I'm with you on how serious it can be.

[thumbsontop]

I thought of something else to consider, and forgive me because I don't remember exact details about your current boarding situation...

If you really like the barn you are at and the people that are there, I suggest you probably NOT euthanize unless you know them all very well and have their full support. Otherwise you will likely end up being shunned simply for the decision you made. I'm trying to imagine if one of my boarders did something like that and it would not go over well at all.

[appaloosalady]

Could you give your general location? There could be people willing to take on a foal in your area.
I couldn't euthanize a healthy foal, but wouldn't condemn someone who could. Have you ever been with a mare when she foaled? If not, don't be surprised if all of the sudden you change your mind and can't put the foal down. Foaling is very emotional for many people and might bring up feelings that make it next to impossible for you to follow through with your plans.

[Iron Horse Farm]

Can we please look at this from the other side (the third side as it is). The vet clinic that I work at does not do "convienance euthanasias". And that is exactly what this is. It is not convienant for the owner of this mare to have a foal right now. I agree that it is through no fault of her own, however, it takes a HUGE toll on those of us in the veterinary community that are forced to clean up the messes of others. Euthanizing a healthy animal is not peritted at my clinic because the 1st line of the veterinary AND technician oath is "First do no harm". I agree that there are unwanted horses, but it doesn't mean that I won't have nightmares if I am forced to kill them personally. And the owner gets to opt to "not be present".

[Luckydonkey]

I agree with those who have said they understand the situation- and I too would choose to euthanize if I absolutely had no way to care for or could not afford to take on a 3rd horse- but then- I also would have to think why I have 2 horses if I am running on that tight of a budget. I think you come across as a dressage queen snob when you talk about the lack of good breeding of this potential foal. I agree with the person who said you might be singing a different tune if you had an accidental well bred baby on the way. Then you would want to know how about getting it registered w/o forking over a stud fee. A month or two ago there was an article in Equus mgazine about an arab mare with shivers disease in Oregon. I almost bought htat mare atthe auction, instead my friends did- she was in horrible condition, and she was in foal. She delivered a healthy foal, and it is now a healthy 3 yr old- a make due foaling area can be made anywhere,they do not need a 5 star hotel to have a baby in. Nor do you need to spend a fortune having it all checked out- if it gets up, eats poops, pees, and can walk around, all is most likely well. Horses do not need to be super expensively maintained. If you have a shoestring budget, you might have to tighten them up a bit for awhile. I also am with the crowd who would like to know what state you are located in- if you are in Oregon, I have bottle calves, and would have no problem adding a bottle foal to the family.

[mephistopheles]

Could you give your general location? There could be people willing to take on a foal in your area.


My thoughts as well. I'm sure there is someone willing to take him/her.

[Auventera Two]

I didn't read a single reply yet because I wanted mine to be uninfluenced by what others have said.

You're NOT a monster! This is a terrible situation that no one would want to be in. I feel for you. :(

There are worse fates than death! A horse has no concept of their mortality. Vet comes out, gives a couple of shots, and it's done. Over. The end. No one suffers. No one is in pain.

BUT, here's my concern. It's for the mare. I'm not entirely sure how the mare would cope with this??? If it were me, I would give the foal away to a good home, or do what I had to do to keep the baby. I'm not a tree hugger, and I see nothing wrong with euthing an unwanted animal. I really don't. But only if every other possible solution has been pursued first.

Also, don't assume the foal will be useless because it's a cross breed! There are thousands of people, like me, who couldn't give a rat's fanny about breeding. As long as the foal had decent conformation, a good temperment, I would take it home.

For the record - one of the most gorgeous horses I've ever seen was a TWH/TB/Perch gelding. About 16 hands, black bay, thickest, longest tail I've ever seen, lovely neck, and the goofiest personality ever. He looked just like a pure WB, and the owner could have easily (EASILY) passed him off as one if she wanted to. ;)

Good luck with your decision, and wow, it's a tough one.

[pegasus209]

I couldn't do it.. but I truly understand your dilemma.
You may actually be very pleasantly surprised though! In my experience , the foals seem to be about 80% 'Mommy'. I personally love TWH crosses.. my last boy was one, I had the chance (and took it) to ride/work with Warmbloods and Andalusians while I had him, and I wouldn't have traded him for any!

[MySparrow]

This is for sure a tough situation. I'd like to play -- well, I was going to say devil's advocate, but perhaps that's not the right term. Can you perhaps rethink the situation a little? Your filly is only 2 -- it's not like you would be doing a whole lot with her in the next couple of months, at least not things that wouldn't be good to do with the foal as well.

Pulling an IGG is not all that expensive -- I think Ragtime's cost $25. Rags' mother Fairy Luna was a rescue in a dreadful state, so thin that we could not see any sign of her then -nine-month pregnancy, and yet Rags was born healthy and bouncing -- and without a vet's help! So you may very well not need any further vet support past the IGG test. You will want to feed your filly well, of course, but presumably you've already been doing that, as the pregnancy (if it is one) hasn't pulled her down. If you wean the foal around 3 or 4 months it won't set your filly back nutritionally.

You strike me as someone who doesn't like to ask for help, but in this instance perhaps that's what you might do. Let everyone know what has happened and ask them to help you -- help you train, help you wean, help you find a new home for the foal.

I have a friend who breeds paints. A solid-colored colt is no use to her. It's a business, and she could probably easily justify euthanizing those unwanted foals. But she chooses to raise them, wean them and find them homes. 4-H is always a great source of takers for her, for example. She has one of my adult students help her socialize the foals, which my student does with delight and without pay, because it's the only chance she will ever have to form that kind of bond. Everybody wins.

How do you know an unwanted foal will end up at a feedlot? You don't. You're projecting a future that you can't control and assuming the worst. It happens, sure. But it also happens to much-wanted, much-planned-for horses.

You can take all this with a large grain of salt as coming from a vegan who never willingly kills anything except sometimes cockroaches :grin:. I wish you luck, and I know you will make the right decision. We can't control our horses' destinies -- that job lies in greater hands than ours.

[cowboymom]

If you're anywhere near Montana, which I doubt, I'd take it and I can think of a lot of other folks here that would too. My first, favorite and best horse ever was a mutt TW/QH that gaited beautifully and we have a mutt filly right now that came out of a rescue mare, we didn't really want that mare to be pregnant but of course she was and now we have a really great little filly that is more perfect for our family than if we had deliberately gone out and researched breeds and bloodlines to get the ultimate family/mountain horse. You never know how that DNA square dance is going to turn out, could be a great little foal. Your mare is probably no slouch!

[trubandloki]

I also would have to think why I have 2 horses if I am running on that tight of a budget. I think you come across as a dressage queen snob when you talk about the lack of good breeding of this potential foal. I agree with the person who said you might be singing a different tune if you had an accidental well bred baby on the way.

:eek:

I think saying that she/he (the OP) does not have the money for a foal does not mean the OP is on a tight budget. It means the OP had no desire to have a foal and therefor does not want to spend a portion of their horse budget on a foal they did not want or expect. I do not see this as any reason to call the OP names.

I also find it unsettling that someone who has expectations for their animals is labeled a dressage queen snob.
It sounds to me that the OP has her filly for a reason and that reason was not to breed a mutt of a horse.

[mephistopheles]

Sometimes mutts are the best horses :D I love my POA/QH/Shetland pony who says: "Oops, I was born to backyard horse breeding idiot fools who don't know the first damned thing about horses so they let a halter grow into my face, fed me cow sileage and rotten produce, foundered me, and then stuck me out in a back pasture to die because they couldn't afford vet the vet or farrier, but now I'm owned by a sucker who loves me dearly, rehabbed me, and I'm the cutest and happiest pony on the planet!"

:D :)

Boy doesn't that sound familiar :lol:

[Tiempo]

I personally could not euthanize a healthy foal, please consider giving us your location, I'm sure someone will come through with help if you do.

I will if you are anywhere near me.

[CarouselPony]

But since you posted this and asked for opinions...

1) I would really consider how 'tight' things are if a foal is going to put a strain on your finances - perhaps 2 is too many already?

2) I think waiting for birth to destroy the foal is a bit... well, no. If you thought the mare was pregnant, you should have terminated the pregnancy as soon as possible, but as you've let it go this far...

3) Yes, the stud owner SHOULD be held responsible in part, but again, should have been approached in the beginning (if they haven't already).

4) Finally, I would look around to see if there is anyone who wants to take the foal - let him get the colostrum from mom and turn him over to a foster mom - the time to look is NOW.

So, ultimately I don't believe a healthy foal should be put down at birth, especially for the reasons you've presented. No, you can't guarantee a home for life - you don't know if one day he/she will ultimately end up on a dinner plate somewhere, but who knows -

What's done is done, and I for one would rather see you consider all the options for life if you are going to let this baby draw breath at all.

[Luckydonkey]

:eek:

I think saying that she/he (the OP) does not have the money for a foal does not mean the OP is on a tight budget. It means the OP had no desire to have a foal and therefor does not want to spend a portion of their horse budget on a foal they did not want or expect. I do not see this as any reason to call the OP names.

I also find it unsettling that someone who has expectations for their animals is labeled a dressage queen snob.
It sounds to me that the OP has her filly for a reason and that reason was not to breed a mutt of a horse.

This from the OP's first post is why I said what I did....
"First, I cannot financially support an additional horse right now, let alone a foal who will need IgG's, all it's vaccinations series, and so on. My farm is not set up to raise a foal, either.

But an even bigger problem in my mind is that I feel this foal will be completely useless to me. The potential "sire," if you can even call him that, was an UGLY, unregistered, incorrect, growth-stunted TWH/QH colt. The filly in question is a registered dressage prospect. I do not have any use for a fugly WB/TWH/QH, and I doubt many others do. And I honestly don't want to waste my money raising a useless foal I don't want until weaning time. I'm sorry if that makes me sound snotty, but it's the truth "


Sorry- but that comes off a bit snobbish to me... just my opinion- and since the horse that may or may not bred is according to the op 'a registered dressage prospect", if the shoe fits then, wear it. Now, had this been worded differently, of course my initial thoughts and feelings about it may be different, but it came across that way to me....

[cowboymom]

I was also going to add that we raised our filly we simply put the mare/filly in a panels with a run-in shelter for the first few weeks then into an electric fence, no injuries to date. She hasn't cost us a dime, actually, unless you count her shots which we gave her. In your shoes, I would be asking around now for someone to take the foal (sounds like you could choose from a few homes just from COTH) then plan on leaving the foal on the mare for two months. It isn't much but it's a start for the foal and a completion of the deal for the mare. You would probably want to give your mare some recovery time regardless and even a few weeks of nursing would be good for them both. It doesn't have to be difficult nor expensive to deal with a foal. This reminds me of a high society girl getting knocked up by a guy from the wrong side of the tracks and the family attempting to "spirit" away the love child! LOL

also going to add: it'll all turn out fine. You'll make the right decision for all of you. Put yourself ahead a few years, which decision will sit better with you when it's all said and done?

[arabhorse2]

I do agree that sometimes mutts make the best pets, be they dogs, cats, or horses.

However, the OP stated that this foal is completely unwanted. I think it's rather unfair of others to extrapolate that she might be of a different viewpoint if the stallion were somehow to meet her approval.

That's neither here nor there, and anyone who has a world class stallion isn't going to let any "oops" breedings happen in any case. It always seems to be the clueless owner of fugly, uncut crap that allows this to happen.

And for Ironwood, I agree that many vets won't euthanize just because an owner requests it. I also agree if the OP wants the foal to be put down, she needs to be there for the deed.

A horse can be put down by means other than a vet though, and we all know that a well placed bullet does the same thing as the "pink stuff".

The OP has a tough decision to make, and regardless of what any of us think, she has to do what's best for her. I don't envy her this situation. I think it's going to be a "damned if you do, damned if you don't" scenario, regardless of what's decided.

[JenJ]

While I can sympathize with the OP and the idea of trying to avoid allowing another potentially unwanted mistreated horse to be born, my heart breaks at the thought of the filly / mom crying for her foal.

[Equibrit]

Ever thought of donating to a vet school/university equestrian programme or suchlike after weaning?

[Leahinsj]

I would totally support your choice to have this foal put down at birth.

WAY too many unwanted grade horses out there as it is. Even if you raised it, a horse like this would have an uncertain future.

euthanizing the foal is better then a trip on a slaughter truck, a life of neglect in a back yard, or god knows what else.

I think its the right thing to do. Like others said, don't even let the mare see the foal, and you can all go on with your lives.

[alter_E_go]

I really appreciate the overwhelming (and fast) support. :sadsmile:

This is not my ideal situation at all. This is my "once in a lifetime" horse, and I can't believe this is happening. I really don't know what I'd do if I lost her due to complications of foaling from a pasture accident.

As far as contacting the stud owners, I considered that. I also considered taking legal action against them. But these are not the type of people I want back in my life. I also would not want them to raise the potential foal, as the foal would probably be better off dead. They are your true, ignorant backyard breeders, and not very nice people who happen to run a not very nice boarding facility, which I learned the hard way. I was only at their farm a couple weeks, and that was a couple weeks too many.

I have really tried to look at this from the angle of what if the sire was some gorgeous, talented sire and not the ugliest, most incorrect yearling I have ever seen in my life. This sounds awful, and maybe the poster who called me a stuck up dressage queen is right, but I probably wouldn't euthanize in that situation. But that would not change the fact that I do not want a foal right now. I would try to rehome it as soon as possible. But let's face it, I'd probably have a lot easier time rehoming that horse instead of the one I'm dealing with.

If she was in foal, she'd be due around the 3rd week of November. The vet will be out early next week. In the meantime, I'll just be sitting here fretting.

Oh, and I really do appreciate the generous offers of those who would be willing to raise this foal. I will let you know when I find out something definitive.

I am really confused by those who say I should not be owning horses, and where you are getting the 2 horses number. I think I am being financially responsible knowing an additional horse would drag me down, and the fact that I don't have room for one more in the long run. I think it's more responsible to get rid of this foal I don't want than to possibly risk the quality of life of my retirees because I took too much on.

[ravenclaw]

I am a sucker. This is why I have 5 cats...all of them were strays or rescue cases that were in pitiful situations.

I couldn't euthanize a healthy, unplanned foal but I could give it away to someone who would raise it and give it a good home.

If your filly turns out to be pregnant, I think you should make some phone calls and see if you can find someone who will take it and raise it. Either from newborn or later if you are willing to keep it until it is weaned. Shoot -- it looks like you might be able to find a home for it right here on COTH.

Please keep us posted. It sucks that you are in this situation, but hopefully you will find a good way out of it.

[Lori B]

Taking responsibility in such a bad situation is not evil.

The trouble with asking around, for the OP, is probably that if she lets other folks know that she has a foal that she wants to find a home for, then ends up deciding to euthanize it, she will have to hear about it from judgmental types in her acquaintance. (see several posts in this thread) That is sticky and unpleasant but probably a reasonable fear.

It is not our business to judge this owner for trying to find a responsible solution to a problem not of his or her making, one that doesn't depend on hoping that someone else will take care of things. That path leads to the feedlot, and the thousands of pages of ranting on the subject that this board alone has generated.

If you know someone responsible and sensible and non-gossipy locally, I might ask them about finding a home for this foal. But if such a solution seems unworkable or unavailable, euthanizing it rather than sending it to a sale without any ability to be certain it would get a decent home, is responsible, if hard.

And there probably are folks on this board who would be interested, if you wanted to explore that.

[RiddleMeThis]

I have really tried to look at this from the angle of what if the sire was some gorgeous, talented sire and not the ugliest, most incorrect yearling I have ever seen in my life. This sounds awful, and maybe the poster who called me a stuck up dressage queen is right, but I probably wouldn't euthanize in that situation. But that would not change the fact that I do not want a foal right now. I would try to rehome it as soon as possible. But let's face it, I'd probably have a lot easier time rehoming that horse instead of the one I'm dealing with.


Exatly!!!! Ya you probably wouldn't euth it if it was a well bred beautiful baby, but I can garentee that it will be much MUCH MUCH easier to find a good home for that baby than the most likely fugly horse you are going to have from that cross.

[mephistopheles]

I really appreciate the overwhelming (and fast) support. :sadsmile:

This is not my ideal situation at all. This is my "once in a lifetime" horse, and I can't believe this is happening. I really don't know what I'd do if I lost her due to complications of foaling from a pasture accident.

As far as contacting the stud owners, I considered that. I also considered taking legal action against them. But these are not the type of people I want back in my life. I also would not want them to raise the potential foal, as the foal would probably be better off dead. They are your true, ignorant backyard breeders, and not very nice people who happen to run a not very nice boarding facility, which I learned the hard way. I was only at their farm a couple weeks, and that was a couple weeks too many.

I have really tried to look at this from the angle of what if the sire was some gorgeous, talented sire and not the ugliest, most incorrect yearling I have ever seen in my life. This sounds awful, and maybe the poster who called me a stuck up dressage queen is right, but I probably wouldn't euthanize in that situation. But that would not change the fact that I do not want a foal right now. I would try to rehome it as soon as possible. But let's face it, I'd probably have a lot easier time rehoming that horse instead of the one I'm dealing with.

If she was in foal, she'd be due around the 3rd week of November. The vet will be out early next week. In the meantime, I'll just be sitting here fretting.

Oh, and I really do appreciate the generous offers of those who would be willing to raise this foal. I will let you know when I find out something definitive.

If you are close enough to me, consider him/her rehomed... I'm a sucker for cases like this. This cant be easy on you :no:

[Tiempo]

Yes, please keep us posted.

Are you anywhere near Michigan? Pm me if you prefer.

[PalominoMorgan]

Here's my 2 cents.... It sucks that your young filly was turned out with an uncut cold. However, the time to have palpated the mare was shortly after the incident. Surely the few bucks spent on a vet visit would have been well worth the peace of mind had she been without foal. Now that it has slipped your mind for so long and it sounds like there is a good chance your filly is in foal I think the situation changes. The time to terminate the pregnancy was months ago.

There have already been several offers from folks willing to take the "fugly mutt" if they are anywhere near you. I also think that you underestimate the emotional damage that will be done to your filly if her foal is healthy (in her mind) and then destroyed at birth. (I'm not saying she'll be on Dr.Phil or anything, but mares have a very intuitive sense of when things are or are not right with a foal. I imagine there will be some confusion if the foal is destroyed at birth or she is not allowed to see it. Maybe not this time around, but what happens years down the road when you mean to breed the mare...)

If I were in your shoes I would SERIOUSLY consider finding a home for the little "fugly" now. Arrange for someone who will take the foal and assume responsiblity for it. It is also not THAT hard to make a foal safe area for the little thing too. They stick pretty close to mom and so long as your mare respects safe fencing the foal should be just fine. (Foals grow up all around the world in less than ideal conditions all the time and turn out just fine.)

Bottom line from all my rambling... I think you failed to do some of your homework right after you suspected the filly *might* have been possibly bred by the young colt. The time to palpate and preg check was THEN. Now, I think you need to be responsible for your horse (and her foal) if she is indeed pregnant. There will be SOMEone willing to take your little fugly foal off your hands at weaning - COTHer, 4-H family, rescue, etc.

(For the record, I would probably have supported your idea to consider putting down the foal had you had the vet out shortly after the filly and colt were turned out together and done everything in your power at that time to prevent a pregnancy.)

[gazenna]

There is no way I would or could ever do that. Even though this is a two year delivery of a foal could be a little hard , I am sure she would grieve for her baby and this baby did not ask to be conceived so why punish the baby with death. Since you suspect she is going to have a foal this give you opertunity and the time to find this baby a home take advantage of that time you have. I just think its very sad that you want to do this in part because you say the stallion is ugly. I am sure you have heard about the ugly duckling that turnrd into the beautiful swan. Also so what if its ugly Ugly to you, may not be ugly to someone else. I know this really is not any of my business, but you did ask for opinions, and this is mine......Donna

[alter_E_go]

Taking responsibility in such a bad situation is not evil.

The trouble with asking around, for the OP, is probably that if she lets other folks know that she has a foal that she wants to find a home for, then ends up deciding to euthanize it, she will have to hear about it from judgmental types in her acquaintance. (see several posts in this thread) That is sticky and unpleasant but probably a reasonable fear.

It is not our business to judge this owner for trying to find a responsible solution to a problem not of his or her making, one that doesn't depend on hoping that someone else will take care of things. That path leads to the feedlot, and the thousands of pages of ranting on the subject that this board alone has generated.

If you know someone responsible and sensible and non-gossipy locally, I might ask them about finding a home for this foal. But if such a solution seems unworkable or unavailable, euthanizing it rather than sending it to a sale without any ability to be certain it would get a decent home, is responsible, if hard.

And there probably are folks on this board who would be interested, if you wanted to explore that.


This is exactly why I am posting this dilemma on the internet where no one knows me, instead of talking it over with my vet, friends, and neighbors. I haven't even told the vet yet specifically which horse we are preg checking, for fear of rumors flying.

[Lori B]

You might consider, with all the kind interest expressed here, PMing the folks who did say they might take the foal, to tell them at least what part of the country you are located in -- East Coast? West Coast? Midwest? (assuming of course, you are in U.S.) Seems only fair, and shouldn't put you in too much danger of getting locally outed.

[TheCoppertop]

I couldn't euthanize a healthy foal. The mare has to give birth to it anyway so you aren't sparing her. There are alternatives. Someone on here picked up a foal at a yard sale!! This foal sounds more like it would be a dirty little secret to be disposed of, a pain in the arse.

I can't believe, reading this, how many people think the foal would be better off dead than for there to be a chance it may end up in a bad situation. I have a rescue horse who was starved nearly to death, couldn't even walk when he was rescued. He's fat and sassy now and maybe he'd have been 'better off' dead at one point but he's the best little horse (appy/TWH) and I can't take him anywhere without being offered money for him. He'll never be sold.

I love the FHOTD blog and what the writer has to say but I'm seeing a shift lately.. the tone used to be "save the horses!" then Fugly came along and now we have someone else to "look up" to.. and then take it way further.. FHOTD says fugly horses shouldn't be bred.. a hundred minions go "YEAH! And they never should have been born to begin with! Off with their fugly heads!"

I hope your mare isn't pregnant, not to anthropomorphisize (sp) a horse but I know mares go through a grieving process over dead foals and I couldn't do that to my mare, I'd feel so guilty.

Maybe this will be a lesson to anyone whose fillies or mares are EVER exposed to intact males (no matter how young).. get that pregnancy test when it is early.

[thumbsontop]

Hmm...I thinking that because you're being so secretive (even with your vet) you would have an awful lot to lose socially by euthanizing the foal. You aren't going to be able to hide the birth and people will find out. My bet is that the vet wouldn't be willing to euthanize anyhow.

I promise that you would be able to find it a home. Only because there are too many suckers out there who love that fuzzy foal nuzzle, the curly hair poking out of their ears, and that swishing little tail - even if it means bottle-feeding. "Free to any home" will at least give it a chance.

What's a couple of months in a 2 yr old's life? FWIW, I bought a broodmare that was 3 - pregnant with a foal by her side. Not my choice to breed so early, but I really liked the mare. She was a wonderful mom - very nurturing and I believe that came across in her temperment after having that experience.

I'm not totally against euthanasia. I think it's appropriate in some situations. I think you have a choice here though. You at least owe it to your mare...maybe mom-to-be to explore the options.

Hoping that this has all been a waste and you'll find out she's NOT PREGNANT!!!

[SBT]

Bottom line from all my rambling... I think you failed to do some of your homework right after you suspected the filly *might* have been possibly bred by the young colt. The time to palpate and preg check was THEN. Now, I think you need to be responsible for your horse (and her foal) if she is indeed pregnant. There will be SOMEone willing to take your little fugly foal off your hands at weaning - COTHer, 4-H family, rescue, etc.

(For the record, I would probably have supported your idea to consider putting down the foal had you had the vet out shortly after the filly and colt were turned out together and done everything in your power at that time to prevent a pregnancy.)

Agreed 100%.

[J Swan]

Can we please look at this from the other side (the third side as it is). The vet clinic that I work at does not do "convienance euthanasias". And that is exactly what this is. It is not convienant for the owner of this mare to have a foal right now. I agree that it is through no fault of her own, however, it takes a HUGE toll on those of us in the veterinary community that are forced to clean up the messes of others. Euthanizing a healthy animal is not peritted at my clinic because the 1st line of the veterinary AND technician oath is "First do no harm". I agree that there are unwanted horses, but it doesn't mean that I won't have nightmares if I am forced to kill them personally. And the owner gets to opt to "not be present".

Well now isn't that fine and dandy. We're not allowed to put an unwanted horse down, we're not allowed to send it to slaughter, we can't keep it, and we don't want to foist our responsibility off on others.

Now exactly what the hell is an owner supposed to freakin' do? If the owner's decision is to divest ownership, and they have no options - is your little vet going to be there to put the animal down when it's found starved in a dry lot somewhere? Are you going to be there to pay the vet bills? Help find the animal a decent home?

Who is "at fault "is completely irrelevant. If an animal is not wanted, as sad as that is, it is our responsibility to ensure the animal comes to no harm. And that includes euthanasia. Here is an owner attempting to accept ALL responsibility over the life and death of an animal in her care - and you're saying she's still wrong?

Do you know how many giveaway situations go bad? How many cute little foals and weanlings end up starving or neglected? Even pedigreed horses - abuse, neglect and slaughter does not discriminate.

This is the flaw in the anti-slaughter argument. The policy of vets like this. Animals in shelters are euthanized all the time - and in some areas the conditions are absolutely horrific. Much worse than anything a slaughterbound horse experiences. And you are trying to tell me that you and your vets are sitting in your nice little clinic, confident of your morally superior "do no harm" philosophy?

Nice. Tell you what - next time I do a transport I'll invite you and your vet to tag along and see what unwanted animals go through outside of your cozy little clinic.


For the others who post their stories about foals at yard sales, how people shouldn't be breeding their horses - here is an owner taking full responsibility. The last time I read a thread about a foal at a yard sale - people were horrified at the thought of that animal being sold that way - and how awful the people were. Then the inevitable discussion about how unwanted foals end up at slaughter or bought by ignorant people, yatta yatta.

This owner is trying to ensure none of those scenarios happen. Uh - and she'll still doing the wrong thing?

Hmmmm..... methinks that should she decide to keep the foal out of a feeling of guilt, that somehow none of you will be there helping her fix up her fencing, paying the vet, feed and farrier bills, and trying to ensure the animal finds a decent home.

Her choice isn't an easy one, and it isn't supposed to be. Whatever choice she makes - it shouldn't be made out a feeling of guilt or shame - none of you have the right to judge her.

[pegasus209]

I'm vulnerable right now when TWH x's are mentioned.. Pm me your location as well, if you would like.

[HeyYouNags]

People keep offering to take in an orphan, but how would the OP know that the foal wouldn't be going to a collector, or to someone who wasn't in a position to take good care of a foal? I don't think posting on COTH makes anyone an automatic top-notch home. I would worry more about sending a foal to a stranger on the internet than about just putting it down.

Also, the OP didn't have any idea her filly had been bred, as I read it. That's why she didn't have the filly preg checked early on. There is a window of time in which an early equine pregnancy can be aborted, and it's long past. Inducing parturition within a few weeks of the due date would put the filly at risk for complications.

Finally, the posters who are feeling for a mare whose foal is taken from her must never wean their babies.

Tough circumstances, OP, I'm sorry for your situation, but I agree that euthanasia is not an unreasonable solution.

[citydog]

I would explore every possible option for placing/rehoming the foal. I'm thinking that even just on CotH you'll be able to find someone willing to take it.

If you can find no one, have the vet euth ASAP, and you can always tell the folks at your barn that there was something horribly wrong with it and so sad, had to be put down. Or it was stillborn.

But I'd certainly try to find it a home.

[tbgurl]

Wow, what a tough situation and I'm really sorry you're faced with this decision!

Honestly, I don't think I could euthanize a healthy foal, especially not one from my "Once in a lifetime" mare (I have one of those, too). Even if the sire is fugly, there's a good chance the baby will be more like mom, and maybe would get only the best parts of the sire. There may be some market for a 1/2 warmblood, regardless of the cross. It might be worth looking into to see if a home could be found for the baby. In my situation, I'd probably consider raising the baby as a medical expense such as if my mare developed a chronic condition that needed management and sacrifice other parts of my budget to accomodate that. But that is just what I would do if it were me.

That being said, I know the horse industry is really tough right now and finding homes for even well-bred, trained, useful horses is very difficult. I am worried for all the horses who aren't with such responsible owners and might end up starving in a backyard or being shipped out of the country to slaughter. Euthanasia, while a very sad situation, is not the worst fate that could be in store for the foal.

I think the fact that you realize that you couldn't financially support a third horse is very responsible of you. And I think it's unfair of those making judgement calls about you or your financial situation based on the fact that you can't/don't want to spend the money raising a foal. While you may be perfectly able to support one or two horses, adding a third into the mix could very well send you over your budget (and yes, some of us have to budget for our horses...being on a budget doesn't mean we shouldn't have horses as long as we maintain a satisfactory standard of care). And maybe some of the other posters are right and it doesn't take a lot of money to raise a foal to weaning, but what happens after weaning? What if you can't find a home for the foal? Then you'll have board, feed, trims, vet care, and everything else to pay for that a grown horse needs. Should the foal then be foisted off onto a rescue "to clean up other people's messes" as I have heard some describe such situations (in other threads about rescues)? From what I've heard, most rescues are overburdoned and strained as it is. Is it responsible to add one more to the population?

There are no easy answers but I wanted to tell you that I absolutely think you're being responsible by considering euthanasia as an option. Yes, maybe you could have had your filly checked earlier for possible pregnancy but that is water under the bridge. You learned that lesson. Honestly, failing to check for pregnancy earlier does not change the facts of the situation now. If you are a "dressage snob" then I think there need to be more dressage snobs in the world so that maybe there would be fewer grade horses getting shipped to slaughter or starving in someone's backyard. (And this is coming from the proud owner of two grade horses whom I love like children).

Good luck and I'll keep my fingers crossed that your filly is not pregnant.

[trubandloki]

Very well said JSwan

[tbgurl]

Sorry, double post.

[Bosspaige]

I think you are in a very difficult situation but quite honeslty I agree that you should have checked into this earlier. Life and animals don't always go as we plan it, but given all the offers to take the foal just on the postings here, I think it would be incredibly cruel to Euthanize it when there might be people out there that would give it a good home. I don't know how anyone could look into a newborn foals eyes and euthanize it just because it might be ugly. Your 2 year old filly is at risk one way or another in delivering this foal so that isn't going to make a difference. Why not PM the people that have offered on here and see if that might be a possibility. Use the money that you would have paid to Euthanize the "Fugly" thing to take care of it for a few months and then give it away.

[caffeinated]

Also, the OP didn't have any idea her filly had been bred, as I read it.

That's kind of a sticking point to me- the filly was exposed to a colt with working testicles, and she *assumed* nothing happened. I know hindsight is 20/20, but it seems like so many of these stories start with "well, the colt was young and my mare seemed normal and I didn't think anything had happened...."

Maybe it's just a lesson for the rest of us, better to get the preg check done in situations like this, no matter how unlikely we think it is.

[citydog]

People keep offering to take in an orphan, but how would the OP know that the foal wouldn't be going to a collector, or to someone who wasn't in a position to take good care of a foal? I don't think posting on COTH makes anyone an automatic top-notch home. I would worry more about sending a foal to a stranger on the internet than about just putting it down. .


Well, presumably the OP (who *is* trying to figure out what's right to do in this situation) would do a little more than just handing the foal over to whatever random person said they'd take it. You know, talk to the individual, check references, do a home check if possible.

[Lori B]

Posts that are all about what the OP should have done, in an ideal and ultra-careful universe that none of us live in, are pretty silly. Unless everyone who's being critical on this thread has enough cash sitting in their checking account to pay for a horse's colic surgery today, and can guarantee that none of their animals have ever been out of their supervision without their knowledge, y'all should settle down.

[HeyYouNags]

the filly was exposed to a colt with working testicles,

Most 18 month old fillies aren't ovulating, and yearling colts typically aren't fertile. Obviously that's not a hard and fast rule...

[caffeinated]

I don't really think saying that she should have preg checked the mare earlier is something people in only a perfect alternate universe do. I'm not trying to judge her, so much, but it does surprise me how often I hear this story and how simple it might have been to resolve. Maybe not here on COTH, but in other places- seems to be a pretty common thing.

*shrug*

Either way, I wouldn't condemn the OP for what she chooses to do NOW, one way or the other she is taking responsibility for this foal (or potential foal), and there are far worse things than death.

I couldn't do it, personally, I'm too much of a sucker and bleeding heart. I would also estimate that the cost of euthanasia isn't really going to be that much less than the cost of the IGg test and initial vaccinations (provided the delivery goes well).

If she does choose to euthanize, and the vet agrees to do it, the only thing I'd say would be to let the mare see and smell and nose at the foal afterwards so she can understand that he's dead. That might be much easier on her than just removing it.

[caneycreekfarm]

some of my best school horses over the years were also some of the ugliest! But what they did for children and timid adults made them worth a million dollars and beautiful in my eyes. I too feel, that the cost of euthanization could instead go toward raising this foal to weaning age and then finding an appropriate home. I would do my darnest to get the extra money together to do so, yard sale,sell some tack, whatever it takes. I could not look into a newborn foals eyes and say "sorry, you are not of the proper quality to enjoy life"

[summerhorse]

I would support your decision to humanely euthanize the unborn foal.

There are too many unwanted beautiful registered horses out there heading for the slaughterhouse.

I think a poor conformation "mutt" horse will end up in the slaughterhouse, sooner or later.

We do not put the same value on animals as we do an humans. If we did, we wouldn't euthanize so many unwanted dogs and cats. Can you imagine if we did that to unwanted children/homeless people? Not sure if it's better or not, but euthanizing an animal is an easier decision to swallow.

If anyone disagrees with your decision, they can pay for all costs and sign a contract to give the horse a proper home for it's entire life.

yeah that's my way of thinking too.

Can the mare be induced to foal early? or is she too close? It seems that a premature foaling of a smaller fetus would be safer than a full term foaling of a full size foal in such a young mare. (Edit: never mind, I see she's almost ready now if she's in foal)

[Luckydonkey]

I am not against euthanasia as a last resort- and have said that before, but i did just think of something after reading all these other responses- if you are at a boarding barn, how on earth are you goingto plan this so that you can catch it with out anyone else knowing about it? Do you not work? Do you have the ability to be at your mares stall 24/7 with your vet ready with a vial of pink stuff so as soon as it is born it is put down? not likely- chances are your mare will foal when no one is looking, and then you are going to have a barn full of other boarders oogling over the cute little surprise in your mare's stall. How are you going to justify euthing it then- after people have seen it and become enamored with it? Hopefully, you are not in a boarding situation, and you and your vet have unlimited access to get to your mare within a moments notice, so that the foal could be dealt with immediatly if that is what you choose. maiden mares are so all over the place,you could have a foal before your vet gets there, if she would be due in November sometime....

[Fiat Lux]

I am not against euthanasia as a last resort- and have said that before, but i did just think of something after reading all these other responses- if you are at a boarding barn, how on earth are you goingto plan this so that you can catch it with out anyone else knowing about it? Do you not work? Do you have the ability to be at your mares stall 24/7 with your vet ready with a vial of pink stuff so as soon as it is born it is put down? not likely- chances are your mare will foal when no one is looking, and then you are going to have a barn full of other boarders oogling over the cute little surprise in your mare's stall. How are you going to justify euthing it then- after people have seen it and become enamored with it? Hopefully, you are not in a boarding situation, and you and your vet have unlimited access to get to your mare within a moments notice, so that the foal could be dealt with immediatly if that is what you choose. maiden mares are so all over the place,you could have a foal before your vet gets there, if she would be due in November sometime....



Do you have a knowledgable/discreet friend who could take your mare to their farm until she foals? I'm so sorry you have to deal with this... I do hope things work out for you.

[MySparrow]

Finally, the posters who are feeling for a mare whose foal is taken from her must never wean their babies.

Apples to oranges. Mares seem to be happy to get rid of the little monsters by the time weaning rolls around! there's some anxiety, yes, but mom and babe have already been spending more and more time apart, and mom's getting seriously irritated by those strong-jawed, sharp-toothed, head-butting, bossy tantrum nursing sessions.:lol:

[summerhorse]

Hmm, wrong quote came up here. Well the post was about being at a barn and being not liked by the other boarders if the person put down the foal.

All someone has to say is We had to put it down, I can't talk about it. The vet isn't supposed to say anything, who is to know otherwise? Certainly foals get MANY things that require early euthanasia. It is really nobody's business if someone doesn't want to talk about it.

**********************
In response to the poster who worked at the vet clinic and how much it took out of them, try working at the POUND! We put down more animals in a couple weeks than we did in 6 months at the vet clinic. And at least those at the clinic HAD to be put down for the most part. Except for the track greyhounds (don't get me started...) but only the vets did those after hours.

I guess they didn't want to hear about THAT from everybody either...

In rescue I've had female cats spayed that were pregnant (none close to birth) because you can't GIVE a cat away here, they are like cockroaches. The shelters put them down by the truckload (same with dogs too). I had a rabbit that came in and promptly gave birth to a stillborn (well dead when I found it) and I had to rush her in for emergency spay (Ka CHING!) and TOLD them to put them down if they were born alive because A) I didn't think she needed the stress of babies after recovering from a major operation and she only weighed 4 lbs to begin with and B) I could not afford to spay/neuter 4 or 5 MORE rabbits!! And like cats, only the snakes and reptile keepers and people who like to eat them want your rabbits after Easter. Well they called me later and said that she had 4 or 5 (I forget now) live babies. i was SO mad because now I had to be the bad one AGAIN. Plus it was going to cost me another $60 for them to be born alive (go figure...) than not. We were already at triple the budget for a regular spay without that. The girl protested so I said ANYBODY there that wanted to keep them and hand raise them were FREE to do so.

They put them down in record time.

Everybody talks big UNTIL it comes time to spending the time or money and WHOOSH! off the vanish into the woodwork.

[Auventera Two]

Finally, the posters who are feeling for a mare whose foal is taken from her must never wean their babies.

Well, of course we do! But that's a natural process that is programmed into the DNA of most creatures. By the time the baby is 7, 8, 9, 10 months old, the mare is usually getting a little tired of it, and has been nipping and disciplining the baby for quite some time. Having the baby wander off with herd members as the mare gets her peace is natural and expected. Losing a foal a few minutes after birth is devestating for many mares. That is something that is NOT natural.

[AppJumpr08]

I honestly can't say what I would do in your situation... it would be a very hard decision either way...

But in response to the posters worried about how the mare will grieve for her foal... my maiden mare lost her foal this spring at roughly 36 hours old... and she really didn't seem to be very upset.. she nuzzled him after he died, and that was it. I was very very thankful that it was her first baby, and she hadn't really gotten the chance to realize what motherhood was all about...
Obviously different mares have different degrees of mothering instinct, but I would suspect that for a maiden mare, having her foal euthenized before it stood and nursed, wouldn't be as traumatic as a mare who knew what to expect...

[railijumper28]

It's called being a realist. Not a monster.

I'd talk to your vet exactly as you've done here.

Now, you also have an option...you could call around and see if anyone wants the critter--university, etc.

Now there's an idea. Please, don't say I'm horrible, but a university could use the foal for teaching purposes, or maybe......research?

[BelladonnaLily]

I don't have the time to handraise a foal nor the space for another animal, but if the OP decides to give rehoming the foal a chance, I'll commit to donating a few bucks to the foals 24hr foal check or whatever it needs. I also have a practically new foal blanket I'd be willing to send the new owner :yes:

I don't think euthanasia is the worst thing but personally I couldn't do it...especially to a "mutt". Then again, I'm the one who wants to take home the ugliest dog at the pound. Poor thing...

[AKB]

In response to J Swan. Don't forget that vets are people too. It is emotionally difficulty to kill a horse because of illness. It is even more emotionally difficult for a vet to kill a healthy and horse or foal, particularly if the vet feels it might be placeable in a good home. I know of a couple of vet students who used their own money to buy a cute young pony who they had been instructed to euthanize and use as an anatomy/dissection specimen. The more they looked at this pony, the more they realized they couldn't kill him. After they talked the owner into selling them the pony for $150, they gelded him, found him a good home, and transported him across the state to the home. Asking a vet to kill a healthy foal is a lot like asking an Ob-gyn to do a second trimester abortion. Some Ob-gyns can do it and some can't. As an owner, you should not be able to force your doctor/vet to do this.

[Jersey Fresh]

For those of you criticizing the OP, not realizing a mare is in foal is more common than you think. When I was in college, the same thing happened to a mare in the university herd. A colt jumped the fence, no one thought anything of it. The mare foaled in the middle of the night and the colt died a few days later. None of the eq team/riding class/equine science kids who saw her everyday and rode her 5 days a week noticed her growing belly, and she was jumped x-country just a week or so before foaling.

Things happen, hindsight is 20/20. Don't flame her for the would have/could haves.

And I'm sure a lot of you who are saying don't euthanize the foal are the same people who are all over the anti-slaughter threads. Where are these unwanted horses going to go? It seems like everytime there's a thread about an unwanted horse the answer is always "donate it" or "send it to a rescue". There are only X number of spots at rescues or in university herds. I commend the OP for having the guts to NOT contribute to the growing population of unwanted horses.

[TheCoppertop]

Re: weaning.

My unplanned filly was weaned rather abruptly at 4 months old when her (pregnant at rescue) mother had to be euthanized due to kidney failure.

Weaning whining is a lot different than dead baby grief.

Had my mare lived I'd have no problem expecting her to cart my butt around the countryside after I made her cry by weaning her foal. This is so different.

Its a crappy situation and I feel really bad for the OP but something here just seems so.. warmblood elitist to me.

~ ~ ~

I still can't believe people would think its better to euthanize a healthy baby just based on the chance that it *might* be fugly and therefore *might* wind up on a feed lot.

ANY one on this board could get hit by a bus and no matter their will or plans, leave their beloved, once in a lifetime horse(s) open to fall through cracks and wind up on a feedlot.

~ ~ ~

I'm glad the OP is thinking responsibly but there are options. People can be checked out, checked up on. People here are offering to take the foal, and though the (hopefully non existent) foal would be the OPs property to do with as she wishes, I hope its not a case of "If I don't want it, no one can."

A half warmblood.. could probably find someone to spring for the cost of the IgG, the shots, even a board & feed increase, let it nurse 3 or 4 months and then they take the baby. No harm no guilt.

~ ~ ~

As for bleeding heart anti-slaughterers.. I'm not totally against slaughter.. irresponsible breeding drives me nuts! If the only unwanted horses out there were honest to goodness accidents like this one sounds to be, there'd not BE unwanted horses.

[WW_Queen]

How the foal came to be is not really an issue, because nothing that is said/speculated/inferred about what could/would/should've been done will change the current situation.

Do what you feel is right. Weed out what's irrelevant (social standing, the "quality" of the baby [as even a mixed breed can be a wonderful riding/companion horse] etc) and focus on the important parts (you're already stretched tight for money with two horses and a third means missing mortgage payments or not being able to afford groceries).

Basically, despite all the opinions, the only person that will care at the end of the day is you. If you cannot find a suitable adopter (which you may due to the people on this board) then euthanasia would probably be best.

Don't rule out the fact that the baby might be born and suddenly you fall in love at that wet, scared little thing. It's amazing in life how one single moment can change everything. :)

Good luck.

[philosoraptor]

I volunteer at the horse rescue. We are "no kill" organization,but as a result we can't take in every horse. It kills me a little inside every time we can't help every horse and yet another one is shipped to a kill-buyer's lot awaiting shipment to slaughter.

On one hand it's so hard to put down a healthy foal.

On the other hand it seems like the number of good homes exceeds the number of horses, and that means yet another horse is bumped out of a good home to go to auction, broker, or slaughter. I agree with you about the quality of foal meaning something in a market flooded with mediocre foals. You may find him a home today when he's small and cute, but it's the weird mixes & wonky conformations that you find by the dozen at the meat-horse auctions.


Then on one hand most vets will refuse to put down a healthy horse.

On the other, the vet isn't going to give you all the vet care, vaccinations, and medicine this foal needs for free. On the off chance something goes wrong, the vet isn't going to take care of your mare's problem for free either.


And on one hand there's some good person who will PM you and probably take the foal & help towards your foaling costs. But that's one less person who will adopt a horse from a shelter this year and consequently it's another foal that is shipped to slaughter.

Bottom line: I wouldn't want to be in your shoes. No matter what you decide, don't let others make you feel bad. You're the one who has to live with the bills, the headache, and the heartache. Kudos to you for thinking hard about this.

Either way you could sue the stallion owner for your expenses. Euthanasia and removal aren't cheap, either. It does create a messy situation if the foal lives, you sue for expenses, but then the stallion owner tries to sue for at least partial ownership of the foal. I don't know if it's worth all the headache to drag them into court at all?


All I can say is best of luck!

[shireluver]

The way people are talking about hiding the mare away, and being afraid people will find out etc, reminds me of the way teenage mothers were treated in the past. Hide them away so nobody knows they were pregnant, it may bring shame to the family, yadda, yadda, yadda.

Me, I am torn. Could I kill the baby because I didn't like the sire, no, but the decision is up to the OP.

[LockeMeadows]

We're only having one foal due this spring, so I would gladly take your baby on to bucket raise. I have the time and experience and the little bugger may end up being a solid, productive citizen if given the chance. I'm located near Winchester, VA.

[Tiempo]

Quote "I'm sure a lot of you who are saying don't euthanize the foal are the same people who are all over the anti-slaughter threads. Where are these unwanted horses going to go? It seems like everytime there's a thread about an unwanted horse the answer is always "donate it" or "send it to a rescue". There are only X number of spots at rescues or in university herds. I commend the OP for having the guts to NOT contribute to the growing population of unwanted horses." Unquote......

Nope, not me, I think slaughter is an important option and I'm not critisizing the OP either, I'm just willing to help in this case if I can.

[caffeinated]

I'm sure a lot of you who are saying don't euthanize the foal are the same people who are all over the anti-slaughter threads.

I may have missed something, but I'm not seeing a whole lot of "don't do it" posts, just a whole lot of "I couldn't do it myself" posts and thoughts about options.

Kind of a different thing.

[Lori]

Losing a foal a few minutes after birth is devestating for many mares. That is something that is NOT natural.

While I agree that is would be devistating, it IS natural. Predators, disease and defects can all take a newborns life. I had all of the above happen to my livestock in the past. I felt horrible when the fox killed two newborn kids and I found mom wandering around calling and looking for them (that would be one story). After the grieving, they went on with life with the herd within a few days. Nature is not always kind to the newborns.


That being said, to the original poster, since there are people here interested in the foal should everything go well, that is definitely a route to consider. :)

[kcmel]

I just wanted to say I'm very sorry for your "potential" situation, and I wish you and your girl the best of luck. What a hard decision to have to make. You are very brave.

[I'm EBO]

Sigh. Are you willing to keep the foal for at least a few months until it's ready to wean?

If you are, and are on the west coast or in the southwest, I'll take it and find it a good home when it's ready.

I Am one of the anti-slaughter types, btw.

[Tiempo]

Eeps Caffeinated..I didn't say that..I was quoting another post..should have used the quote option!

I'm firmly in the couldn't do it myself camp.

[J Swan]

In response to J Swan. Don't forget that vets are people too. It is emotionally difficulty to kill a horse because of illness. It is even more emotionally difficult for a vet to kill a healthy and horse or foal, particularly if the vet feels it might be placeable in a good home. I know of a couple of vet students who used their own money to buy a cute young pony who they had been instructed to euthanize and use as an anatomy/dissection specimen. The more they looked at this pony, the more they realized they couldn't kill him. After they talked the owner into selling them the pony for $150, they gelded him, found him a good home, and transported him across the state to the home. Asking a vet to kill a healthy foal is a lot like asking an Ob-gyn to do a second trimester abortion. Some Ob-gyns can do it and some can't. As an owner, you should not be able to force your doctor/vet to do this.

I know vets are people too - and killing any living thing, even in hunting or sport, is not to be taken lightly. But neither can you hide behind the "do no harm" sign hanging in the office. Shelter workers face this dilemma every darn day. Slaughterhouses kill healthy living things every single day. Millions upon millions of animals, livestock and pet, die every day and their killers have the same emotions you do.

Animal owners only have several legal options when it comes to divesting ownership. If slaughter is not an option, and euthanasia is not an option - then what options remain? There are not enough homes for them all. Moral arguments aside - while one person may be able to find a home for an unwanted animal, or a vet can assist an owner by helping an animal find a home - that is not a plausible solution for the general population.

The OP may indeed find the perfect home for this animal, and that animal may indeed live a long and healthy life as a treasured pet or working animal. Given the number of "unwanteds" that don't have such a life - I'd say euthanasia is a far cry from "doing harm".

Livestock prices are rock bottom. And I mean it. Hay and feed prices are high. Foals and weanlings are going for dirt cheap. Adding yet another one to the nameless thousands, all in the name of "doing no harm", may not be in the animals best interest.

[BuddyRoo]

I just want to offer some more hugs to the OP.

Crappy situation. Let's hope that when the vet checks her, she's just exhibiting false pregnancy as a result of crazy hormones or something.

Best wishes to you.

But again. I would support your choice.

Funny isn't it? Pro choice. Hmmm.......

[abrant]

I support whatever decision you make.

My auction mare has her next check on Monday, she's probably in foal and I will probably keep it, but I have the facilities right now to do that. I do it with trepidation though... knowing it could be one of those BAD life choices.

Anyway, if I were you, I would make myself a deal.

Euthanize this foal, because you cannot be responsible right now for giving it a great life... some day, down the road when you are able, go to the salebarn and buy a baby and give it a great life.

It's like a really messed up version of kharma.

[MSP]

I could not kill a foal. But if I couldn't afford much more than I have I would do the basics for the foal, no heroics if there were complications but let him have a chance. And then start right away at finding him a home so he can go when he is weaned.

Plenty of backyard breeders raise foals with out spending much more than the money for vaccinations that they do themselves.

Play it one day at a time! Good luck!

Not sure how well this works but you could run an ad here http://www.donatemyhorse.com/index.htm or look at other resources at http://www.unwantedhorsecoalition.org/

[asb_own_me]

:eek:

I think saying that she/he (the OP) does not have the money for a foal does not mean the OP is on a tight budget. It means the OP had no desire to have a foal and therefor does not want to spend a portion of their horse budget on a foal they did not want or expect. I do not see this as any reason to call the OP names.

I also find it unsettling that someone who has expectations for their animals is labeled a dressage queen snob.
It sounds to me that the OP has her filly for a reason and that reason was not to breed a mutt of a horse.

Thanks for replying to LuckyDonkey's post. You've said what I was thinking in a much more concise and polite way than I could have. I too felt that LD was wading into name-calling and judgments that were unnecessary and undeserved.

[wasagroom]

If you can find a vet to do it, I firmly stand behind you in doing it.... IF you can find a vet to do it (I'm sorry, I didn't get a chance to read the rest of the threads between the first page and this last page, so if you've said you've found a vet that will do it, good!). I had an 11 year old great dane that was beginning to get mobility issues. My regular vet retired this past summer (a couple of months before I was ready to say goodbye) so I had the unsightly task of shopping for a new small animal vet while looking for someone to put my girl down with dignity. One clinic said that they would have to perform an exam (to the tune of $100 additional to the $100 it cost to have the dog PTS) to ensure that they weren't putting a healthy dog to sleep. I said if the vet couldn't tell by looking in the dog's eyes that she was 'ready to go' then I didn't think I wanted him for my vet. Luckily my provincial vet stopped by and gave her the shot, we buried her while she was still warm and he charged me $60... didn't have to deal with a stranger, and he knew when he saw her (she was not in bad shape she just had those eyes that said she was finished).

Anyways, that's besides the point. There are so many unwanted horses out there right now, it's the responsible thing to do rather than try to pawn it off on someone else.

[horse crazy inTX]

Don't rule out the fact that the baby might be born and suddenly you fall in love at that wet, scared little thing. It's amazing in life how one single moment can change everything. :)


That may very well happen. :D

In the meantime be totally honest with your vet and see what the response is. Ask for options. The vets I have dealt with are very matter of fact and will not pull any punches about sugar coating things.

[TheJenners]

I fall into the group who say go with your gut. In your shoes, I'd make damn sure I were there when the mare foaled, whisk it around the corner quickly and have the vet euthanize it. It'll be awful, you may feel some regret and certainly the mare will have some issue with it BUT...that is exactly what I would do. Call me a snob, I'll say I'm a realist.

If my three-year-old were accidently bred and I didn't discover it until too late, it's exactly what I'd do.

I support the OP in her decision and applaud her for asking publicly, even by alter.

[Sing Mia Song]

As a veterinary technician, I've had to euthanize lots of puppies/kittens when we do a "terminal spay." Granted, I inject the euthanasia solution directly into the excised uterus, so I never see their faces, so to speak. I don't enjoy doing it, but I find it an easier choice than having the same animals wind up at the shelter down the line.

I have never encountered a vet who has refused to do a terminal spay, but I am in a fairly liberal part of the country. I have worked with other technicians who could not do it.

You may find yourself a pariah at your current boarding situation, which is something you do have to be prepared for. But I wholeheartedly support your decision. It's a whole lot easier to take in an unwanted cat or dog than an unwanted horse, and lord knows there's plenty of unwanted horses out there already.

[Bluey]

Well, it is risky for her to carry to term and try to have a foal at such a young age.
Your vet will take that into consideration, whatever decision may be made.

Still, one of my best horses was from a fellow with one mare that kept her yearling filly with her weanling full brother thru the winter and she got bred late winter.
She had the colt fine and he made a good horse, except that he was 14 hands, when the parents were over 15.1 hands and never grew any winter hair. Inbreeding does odd things.

I would have never thought to abort a foal but for medical reasons.
It does make sense that there are other reasons in different situations.

Right now, the latest figures I have read are that we have 210,000 unwanted horses out there (don't know how they came to that figure) and they are increasing every day, so it may make sense not to add any more unwanted ones.

For all those that want that foal, if you really have the place, time and money to raise one, I am sure they are plenty unwanted very nice foals to choose from right where you are, if you look around.

[Foxtrot's]

Maybe the sire is not as ugly as you thought - are they not ALL fugly at a year old? It is a horrible dilema for you. This is the COTH bb and you will naturally find the judgemental types, as well as the supportive. If you have to euthanize, the mare does not have to see her baby. You have been honest and do not come across as a dq snob to me. Better to do one horse properly than two inadequately regarding finances.

[TB or not TB?]

For those who are criticizing the OP because she might not be considering this if the stallion was a high class WB, remember that at least there IS a demand for well bred WB babies. If she could re-coup her expenses at the very least, knowing the foal has a decent future, this would be a non-issue.

For a WB/TWH/QH? Are you kidding? How many of you want to BUY that critter? And sure, once in a blue moon a nice foal comes out of a crap stallion like this. The rest are post legged, back at the knee, straight-shouldered, ewe-necked, crooked-leg freaks that are permanently lame by age 2. Now that's a life for a horse - let it live for 2 years with progressive amounts of pain until it's barely pasture sound, then let its owner ship it to Mexico or foist it on a rescue. Maybe you can shove it off to a 4-H kid. Oh wait, even THEY don't want a green-broke lame horse when they can get a sound, trained horse for pennies.

For those of you who are offering to take this foal, I applaud you. In fact, since your hearts are so big, go to your local auction and get a baby from there - I bet you could have any breed, probably papered and well-conformed (ie, ones that HAVE a future when you're sick of dealing with a bottle-fed youngster).

Oddly enough, I have trouble even killing bugs because it makes me feel bad. I absolutely cherish life and don't want to see creatures suffering. And I guess that's part of the problem here, except you all are going about it backwards. This animal's life does not look to be good. To horses, the whole death thing is not such a big deal. For those of you giving the OP a hard time or saying you would NEVER DO THIS, who are you really trying to spare? The horse or yourself? :confused: I always thought euthanasia was the kindest option in a situation like this.

[Tiempo]

For those who are criticizing the OP because she might not be considering this if the stallion was a high class WB, remember that at least there IS a demand for well bred WB babies. If she could re-coup her expenses at the very least, knowing the foal has a decent future, this would be a non-issue.

For a WB/TWH/QH? Are you kidding? How many of you want to BUY that critter? And sure, once in a blue moon a nice foal comes out of a crap stallion like this. The rest are post legged, back at the knee, straight-shouldered, ewe-necked, crooked-leg freaks that are permanently lame by age 2. Now that's a life for a horse - let it live for 2 years with progressive amounts of pain until it's barely pasture sound, then let its owner ship it to Mexico or foist it on a rescue. Maybe you can shove it off to a 4-H kid. Oh wait, even THEY don't want a green-broke lame horse when they can get a sound, trained horse for pennies.

For those of you who are offering to take this foal, I applaud you. In fact, since your hearts are so big, go to your local auction and get a baby from there - I bet you could have any breed, probably papered and well-conformed (ie, ones that HAVE a future when you're sick of dealing with a bottle-fed youngster).

Oddly enough, I have trouble even killing bugs because it makes me feel bad. I absolutely cherish life and don't want to see creatures suffering. And I guess that's part of the problem here, except you all are going about it backwards. This animal's life does not look to be good. To horses, the whole death thing is not such a big deal. For those of you giving the OP a hard time or saying you would NEVER DO THIS, who are you really trying to spare? The horse or yourself? :confused: I always thought euthanasia was the kindest option in a situation like this.

I understand what you are saying in your third paragraph, and I have had my share of rescues, horses and greyhounds (and as a foster mom to 16 off the track greyhounds)

But if I can help a COTHer resolve a difficult situation when I'm in a position to do so seems ok to me.

[Jellybean83]

Hmm, well I was in a similar situation. We had imported a mare from Europe as a quick flip resale. She was very easy/quiet, and pretty. We bought her in October as a 4 yr old and were going to take her to Indio to sell. Anyways...to make a long story short she turned out to be pregnant and foaled unexpectedly the middle of December.

The foal was SERIOUSLY FUGLY, we thought it was a draft horse, it had some odd legs as well. The person we bought the mare from insisted she had never been near a stallion, there wasn't a stallion on her property or in the neighbourhood (which in Europe is really hard to believe..yeah right). They suggested we put it down, and keep on going w/the mare. We did not put the foal down, we sold it to a couple of older ladies for $500 who really liked my mare.

Anyways, the baby turned out to be decently talented and sold as a dressage horse when it was older. So...you never know how a fugly foal will turn out. So that is my story, take it how you wish...the mare however did something weird foaling and was never quite the same again behind. I still own her 8 years later. Some re-sale horse she turned out to be!!! She's a fantastic broodmare though, bred to a known stallion haha.

[TB or not TB?]

I understand what you are saying in your third paragraph, and I have had my share of rescues, horses and greyhounds (and as a foster mom to 16 off the track greyhounds)

But if I can help a COTHer resolve a difficult situation when I'm in a position to do so seems ok to me.

I think that paragraph came out sarcastically when it actually wasn't supposed to be. I really do mean that it's good of you all to help in a case like this, and that people should do more of the same. The only part I meant semi- snarkily was the bottle feeding thing, and only because I've heard what a handful that can be. :)

[lcw579]

First of all not a good situation to be in by any stretch of the imagination. I am just glad that I don't have to make this decision and really you have to do what feels right for you. Obviously you have some deep reservations about putting this foal down at birth or you wouldn't have posted at all. Maybe you don't really want to but think you should because you are sure it is going to be ugly and too expensive?

As for being too expensive, I used to ride at a breeding farm where the mares all foaled out in the field by themselves and did fine. These were expensive mares bred to a famous stallion whose grandchildren are still known on the dressage circuit so this was no backyard breeder situation. Despite the way horses are coddled through foaling today they really don't need all that much help. Even a maiden mare tends to know what she is doing. So as someone else said other than routine vaccinations this foal could turn out costing very little.

Your mare will notice if her foal disappears, her level of upset will depend on her personality. Some don't notice so much but some do really seem to grieve. Since I don't know your mare I wouldn't want to hazard a guess.

Two stories about unexpected foals: Foal one was an appaloosa that arrived in the belly of a lesson mare. He was never a beauty but grew up to be a sweet honest large pony. He was much beloved and helped teach a legion of kids to ride. So there is a place for the oddballs.

Foal Two was a hanvoverian/tb cross - it was a long time ago so I forget the circumstances of how the mare ended up bred. Anyway, nobody at the barn thought she was so her owner continued to ride her and jump her 5 to 6 days a week (we were all teenagers at the time so she was ridden alot) without noticing any "changes" - then one day mare is in the aisle getting her back shoes on when I walk by and notice that she seems to have a milk bag - nobody wants to believe me. Finally a "grown up" looks and sure enough I was right! :yes: About a week later the mare delivers a healthy foal and both were just fine.

And you know what, your unexpected foal may end up favoring your mare - genetics is a strange thing - Just ask my husband, he likes to say it's a good thing that the kids look like me :lol:

Good luck with whatever you decide to do, whatever decision you make, you are the one that is going to have to live with it not any of us.

[Tiempo]

I think that paragraph came out sarcastically when it actually wasn't supposed to be. I really do mean that it's good of you all to help in a case like this, and that people should do more of the same. The only part I meant semi- snarkily was the bottle feeding thing, and only because I've heard what a handful that can be. :)

No offense was taken :)

[Chief2]

OP: I'm glad you used an alter, because I think your attitude stinks. I hope you find out it isn't true as well (which given the 'symptoms' you are seeing sounds like a magical wish), because your attitude and state of mind here need a good dose of maturity. From the sounds of your post, you are not in daily attendance with your horse if you kept missing this. It also makes me question how often your vet sees these horses as well.

So, what we really have here is a very strong distaste for indiscriminate breeding, then some financial concerns which conveniently hide the indiscriminate breeding distaste, and a total shedding of owner-responsibility over the breeding. Sorry, it doesn't wash. You are her owner, you put her in that barn, you bear some responsibility for what happens or happened to her. I also suspect, along with other posters, that if this had been a purebred to purebred breeding with a great stallion, you would be ecstatic.

As Ironwood Farm inferred, good luck convincing a vet to euthanize your foal. They are in it to go to extraordinary lengths to save these foals, and to ask them to assist in giving life and then snuff it out is a real affront to their senses. Perhaps someone will PM you with instructions on doing it yourself. I assume you are willing to do that? Or is someone else going to get that responsibility as well, while you hide at home?

Your post reminds me of the posts complaining of the bigtime breeders who ship their unwanted foals off to slaughter. Same attitude, different means, same ending. You need to grow up, accept your responsibility and do a better job. Nothing you have in mind is going to help your mare now. It's too late for that.

[R D Lite]

Well, I'd agree with those who think you should have had the vet check out your mare as soon as you knew she'd been out with an ungelded colt, but what's past is past. I do think you have a responsibility to try to find a home for this foal. Yes, it might cause people to talk. Yes, it might be uncomfortable. No, you didn't breed your horse intentionally. Tough. If you decide that you truly have no other option but to euthanize this foal, so be it, but in my opinion you need to do everything you can to try to find another option first. The fact that you have had several expressions of interest on this thread should tell you that it's not a foregone conclusion that no one will want the horse.

Even if you're only considering euthanizing the foal, you need to talk with your vet about it ASAP, because as others have mentioned, I wouldn't be surprised in the least if your vet refused to euthanize a healthy foal. None of the vets I have worked with perform convenience euthanasias. The logistics could take some major planning, and you don't want to wait too long if your horse is going to foal soon.

[Daydream Believer]

I once bought a mare as a rescue and found out she was in foal. She was a Conn/TB bred to a QH by accident and the filly was gorgeous. Sold at a nice sale for a nice price and was destined to be a hunter by the folks who bought her. . Lovely mover and a nice black as well.

I simply could not euthanize a healthy foal... I try so hard to bring them into the world healthy and whole that it seems so wrong to just kill one because it was inconveniently bred and an embarrassment.

Add me to the list of folks who will take this poor fugly little foal if you can keep it on the filly at least 3 months until minimum weaning age. I only have one mare lactating right now and she's bred back so I doubt I could provide a nurse mare and I do not have time to hand raise it. I'll bet the foal will be a lot nicer than you think and what's one more foal to feed when I already have six of them?

[Ember]

"Bottom line from all my rambling... I think you failed to do some of your homework right after you suspected the filly *might* have been possibly bred by the young colt. The time to palpate and preg check was THEN. Now, I think you need to be responsible for your horse (and her foal) if she is indeed pregnant. There will be SOMEone willing to take your little fugly foal off your hands at weaning - COTHer, 4-H family, rescue, etc.

(For the record, I would probably have supported your idea to consider putting down the foal had you had the vet out shortly after the filly and colt were turned out together and done everything in your power at that time to prevent a pregnancy.)"

I have to say I agree with this. In my opinion you became responsible for the foal when you made the choice not to get it checked for pregnancy. I feel like you are trying to shirk that responsibility now.

It is responsible to euthanize a horse rather than send it to auction, but only after you've explored the other options fully. I worry that you may be trying to make the decision without exploring the options, or to make it easier for you. I'd hate to think that's true but people amaze me all the time. If all else fails euthanize but be aware that it is your fault. You are personally responsible for the birth and death of that foal.

I have no sympathy for the money issue. You had the opportunity to mitigate the damages but chose not too. This didn't just happen to you. You contributed to the situation. Choose to learn from the experience.

All that unpleasantness aside. In most breeds the mare may pass 80% to the foal. If you really have a nice mare the baby might be nice too.

[Lori]

Not pointing to any one poster, but culling IS responsible breeding (and why I myself do not breed horses or dogs). Lack thereof is why a lot of companion animals and horses have gotten to the point that they are.


From reading these replies, it seems as if there are several people here willing to take the OP's foal. I think that is great! The people on this board really are wonderful. :)

[cuatx55]

I have a hard time believing this is an "unwanted" horse to someone...this could be someone's best friend, "pretty" or not. No, it's not good that the horse got into this situation, but come on...give it a chance. Too bad for the bills, but taking care of a baby till weaning won't take up more room (same stall as mom). Part of owning a horse is taking care of them in sickness and hard times. I'm sorry the stallion wasn't your "choice" and not a good quality, but take a look at this from all angles. I get the feeling you think having an "ugly" horse will make you look bad. Who cares? I'd care more about not giving an innocent foal a chance. You don't have to like the horse, you don't have to keep it. Just see beyond your distaste for this situation. Yes, there are a lot of irresponsible breeders out there. You did not chose to do this, so I would not put you in the category. Whatever you decide, you have to live with it, so I hope you think about all the ramifications. If your mare physically can't handle this then I would suggest ending it. Other then that, no. It seems that there are a lot of options for the foal if you looked hard enough.

[Coup De Des]

Here's my 2 cents.... It sucks that your young filly was turned out with an uncut cold. However, the time to have palpated the mare was shortly after the incident. Surely the few bucks spent on a vet visit would have been well worth the peace of mind had she been without foal. Now that it has slipped your mind for so long and it sounds like there is a good chance your filly is in foal I think the situation changes. The time to terminate the pregnancy was months ago.

There have already been several offers from folks willing to take the "fugly mutt" if they are anywhere near you. I also think that you underestimate the emotional damage that will be done to your filly if her foal is healthy (in her mind) and then destroyed at birth. (I'm not saying she'll be on Dr.Phil or anything, but mares have a very intuitive sense of when things are or are not right with a foal. I imagine there will be some confusion if the foal is destroyed at birth or she is not allowed to see it. Maybe not this time around, but what happens years down the road when you mean to breed the mare...)

If I were in your shoes I would SERIOUSLY consider finding a home for the little "fugly" now. Arrange for someone who will take the foal and assume responsiblity for it. It is also not THAT hard to make a foal safe area for the little thing too. They stick pretty close to mom and so long as your mare respects safe fencing the foal should be just fine. (Foals grow up all around the world in less than ideal conditions all the time and turn out just fine.)

Bottom line from all my rambling... I think you failed to do some of your homework right after you suspected the filly *might* have been possibly bred by the young colt. The time to palpate and preg check was THEN. Now, I think you need to be responsible for your horse (and her foal) if she is indeed pregnant. There will be SOMEone willing to take your little fugly foal off your hands at weaning - COTHer, 4-H family, rescue, etc.

(For the record, I would probably have supported your idea to consider putting down the foal had you had the vet out shortly after the filly and colt were turned out together and done everything in your power at that time to prevent a pregnancy.)

There is no way I would or could ever do that. Even though this is a two year delivery of a foal could be a little hard , I am sure she would grieve for her baby and this baby did not ask to be conceived so why punish the baby with death. Since you suspect she is going to have a foal this give you opertunity and the time to find this baby a home take advantage of that time you have. I just think its very sad that you want to do this in part because you say the stallion is ugly. I am sure you have heard about the ugly duckling that turnrd into the beautiful swan. Also so what if its ugly Ugly to you, may not be ugly to someone else. I know this really is not any of my business, but you did ask for opinions, and this is mine......Donna


no no no. Do not euth. :no:

[frugalannie]

Oh my, Alter e Go, you sure have opened a can of worms here!

This is what I think: there are many sincerely held opinions about what you should do. In the end, you have to do what is right for you, your mare, and your situation. No matter how much any of us COTHers might care, we aren't in your shoes. Make the decision that you think is best, and sleep well knowing that you thought it out as best as you could, knowing all the facets (yes, that's facets, not facts) that you do. Whatever your decision, it will be the right decision for you, if not for someone else (and no decision could possibly be right for everyone).

As the French say, "Courage!".

[Appassionato]

Not pointing to any one poster, but culling IS responsible breeding (and why I myself do not breed horses or dogs). Lack thereof is why a lot of companion animals and horses have gotten to the point that they are.


From reading these replies, it seems as if there are several people here willing to take the OP's foal. I think that is great! The people on this board really are wonderful. :)

I agree with this for the most part!

First, let me say I've never had a horse I owned bred. I know very little about breeding. So, are there risks to the OP's youngster giving birth??? I truthfully don't know the answer to that, but in that she wanted the horse she has I can see her wanting to protect it. If she'd purposefully bred it the same folks here would more than likely jump on her for it. usually with "You could cause x, y, or z to that poor filly for breeding her that young!!!" I've read worse and much more silly than that. So, I have to ask.

Second, so long as their are no possible risk factors due to age, the folks that ponied up and want the baby? Give it to them. BUT, I have to ask, should it cost the OP more than euthansia costs? It's easy to tell someone that money isn't an issue. That's the beauty of the internet: we are all slender, wealthy, have great skin, and fabulous.

Third, I wonder how many folks have something to say about FHOTD blog being funy and spot on, yet tell the OP of this thread she's in the wrong for trying to prevent that? :uhoh: FTR, I think FHOTD is hysterical! Not AT the horses, but she's right: "quit breeding!" intended at the novices. Yes, sometimes someone finds a nice cross of any kind that is absolutely to die for...how often does that happen? Really? Why have this baby, for someone who's going to "rescue" it, then sell it, several homes later it's where?

OFTEN we have these "discussions" (onslaught of catty females is more like it) that a person who doesn't care for the horse until the end should not have horses. Yet, for once, the OP is trying to do the right thing and euthanize to avoid a bad ending for the unborn horse...and she gets slammed for it? Yes, it's possible it's the next Olympian...but let's get real, by stats it more than likely isn't. She doesn't want to support an accident that isn't her fault, yet some have tried to crucify her...that's messed up.

[spookhorse]

If it's in KY, I'll take it! My fiance might divorce me (despite that we're not married yet :lol:) ...Okay, he'd understand if we raised it to find a home for eventually.

I believe the time to check was when you found out your filly had been running with the colt and not a minute later. A pregnancy check around here is only $20 or so plus a farm call and I've done it myself when I suspected a colt got with my foster mare!

I'm not saying anything that hasn't been said here before, but I agree that it's been rather irresponsible of the OP to wait until literally the last minute and then expect sympathy or agreement with euthanizing a foal that might have been an accident, but that could have been taken care of early on without the filly even knowing what was going on. Horses do grieve, there's no doubt about that, so just taking the foal around the corner to euth and get rid of it before she gets a chance with it would probably depress her.

I find the attitude that just because the foal will be a crossbred from your wonderful "registered dressage prospect" to be rather snobbish as well. Lots of crossbred horses (even gaited x ungaited) turn out to be wonderful horses if given the chance with a good upbringing. Heck, I've got TWHs and I will vouch for their awesome temperaments anyday :D

No I wouldn't want to be in the OP's shoes, but I sure would do things a bit differently and stand up to take responsibility for my actions because that is ultimately what this is. The OP chose not to preg check when the filly/colt occurrence happened and now wants to be rid of the problem asap. OP, you can be rid of the problem by contacting any one of us who have stood up to say we'd take the foal, but please don't euthanize!

[Mardi]

This is not my ideal situation at all. This is my "once in a lifetime" horse, and I can't believe this is happening. I really don't know what I'd do if I lost her due to complications of foaling from a pasture accident.



If the mare dies, then would you keep the baby alive ?

[asb_own_me]

I have a hard time believing this is an "unwanted" horse to someone...this could be someone's best friend,

Are you kidding? So could one of the thousands that are slaughtered every year.

[lolalola]

What if the baby looks nicely conformed at birth? I know this makes your decision even harder, and a foal's ultimate looks can be so unpredictable, but would you keep it if it is attractive? Fact of life - cute horses, dogs, cats, etc have a much better chance of finding homes than fugly ones. Probably true of babies in third world orphanages.
I hope those on COTH who have offered to take it will step up to the plate. There are thousands of unwanted horses out there - but how many have become wanted by means of networking?

[sanctuary]

I don't have tons of experience, but I have known a dozen or so broodmares in my time. To me, it sounds like your filly may be ready to foal sooner than you think. I hope your vet is coming out early next week. She may go early since it's her first.

Best of luck to you. I don't know what I would do. Other than knowing this is why my BO doesn't turnout boys & girls together EVER, except as sucklings.

[spookhorse]

...the ugliest, most incorrect yearling I have ever seen in my life.

Another thought is that the colt could have been in a really bad growth stage (as all yearlings no matter what breed can go through) and that he'll turn out alright... or at least could with proper care. His looks may be/have been from a combination of care and growth stage, please keep that in mind.

[f4leggin]

If you are in Colorado - I'll take it... As for your situation - IMHO - as animal owners - we are their caretakers during good times and bad. Sometimes we get to make tough decisions. Make one you can live with, and disregard what everyone thinks - we owe it to our animals to make the best decisions we can make - we do not owe them a PC decision because we want our friends to like us. I would certainly not hold it against you if you were in my barn, and made this chioce. The only "but" is - if you had people with open arms wanting to take the foal - well, I would wonder why you didn't take them up on it... OTOH, I can understand your wondering where the foal would end up - but truely - there are soooo many ugly strangely bred horses in the world who end up in loving homes - I wouldn't worry so much about the foal not being "good" enough to get a decent home. Lots of horse lovers are barn blind. Keep me in mind, if you want to send the foal to the Denver CO. area.

Jill

(and good luck)

[Twomanydawgs]

Good luck looking into that little innocent face gasping for its first breath, making sucking noises and looking all wet and vulnerable and then euthanizing it. Having foaled hundreds of babies each one is sort of a miracle and I coldnt do what you want to do. :no:

[annikak]

you've had a lot of MI people stepping up- add me and your foal can grow up with my bucket fed orphan.

I have the fate outlook on life- I take signs and signals as roadsigns. So, I could not abort a foal that is so close to its first day of (breathing) life.

My heart goes out to you- its obvious that its tough on you as you used an alter. I hope you find a good solution for you and the mare.

[~Freedom~]

So, what we really have here is a very strong distaste for indiscriminate breeding, then some financial concerns which conveniently hide the indiscriminate breeding distaste,


I don't weigh in on these topics very often but I have been through the breeding process. I looked very hard for the "right" stallion to complement my mare and I certainly wouldn't call that discrimination but a well thought out plan.

THAT is what true breeding is and should be practiced by all that breed. The OP has EVERY right to chose who she wishes to breed to her mare if and when she chooses to do so and should not have an unacceptable cross thrust on her. PERIOD !

[Instant Karma]

I could absolutely not do it, especially after thinking about looking at that little, innocent baby, seeing the world for the first time... omg, no way.

The time to abort the baby was a loooooong time ago, and if I was in your shoes, I am too paranoid to have let the mare go without being checked. I know this is a horrible situation, and ultimately not your fault, but you made the error in judgement to not address the situation asap.

You have many offers from the good people here to take the baby off of your hands, no excuse to euthanize it twhen someone is willing to give the foal a chance.

[Samotis]

so all you people that think she should euthanize this baby. If your daughter accidently got pregnant, would you kill the baby when it was born? No! You would keep him/her or you would adopt him/her. Period. If you have enough money to care for a horse, you have enough money to handle this foal responsibly. You should have been a little more aware of who your horse was being turned out with.

[spookhorse]

OP has EVERY right to chose who she wishes to breed to her mare if and when she chooses to do so and should not have an unacceptable cross thrust on her. PERIOD !

The problem is that the OP left it to far to late to NOT have to go through with the foaling. Short of killing the foal either shortly before birth and encouraging the mare to late term abort (a risky proposition at best) or euthanizing the foal at birth, what else is the OP gonna do?

No one is forcing the OP to keep the foal, simply asking to let it live and send it after a week or so on the mare to any one of a number of folks who are willing to take up raising it to be a (hopefully) useful member of horsey society. I think by now we've got most of the US covered where ever the OP may be located!

[Milocalwinnings]

I wouldn't be opposed to euth'ing if it was the last choice- but obviously you have other choices. A bunch of people have stepped up and offered to take the foal. I think that is incredibly generous of them to do so, as it shouldn't be their responsiblity to fix- but since they are willing to do so, PLEASE re-home the foal with someone who WANTS to raise it.

Also, why is it that you didn't check or realize who she was turned out with when you boarded her there? My barn is great and doesn't move my horse without talkin to me first. However, I think it is partly the owners responsibility to make sure whoever the horse is turned out with will be a good match. In some cases, it is the BO/BM's job to make sure the herd gets along well and that the owner is happy with who the horse is turned out with (and it should also be their responsibility to not turn out a mare with a colt!), but I also do not think it is entirely the BO's responsibility to do so. The owner should double check- as just becaue a BO feels one turnout situation is fine, doesn't mean the owner agrees.
So in regards to that- how often were you out to see your horse? Did you not notice that she was turned out with a mare and her colt?

I also agree that your attitude is pretty bad. I've seen some pretty darn ugly foals come from well bread horses... and some pretty nice foals come from some unknown breedings. Well bred doesn't always = nice. I originally didn't think your decision to euth was horrible... but after seeing how many offers to take the foal you've gotten, and also seeing your post about how you would not euthanize a foal if it came from an accepted stud, that changed my view a bit. :no:

[Beethoven]

Just a little story for everyone who thinks that there is no way their mares could be pregnant because of blah blah blah..One of my equine repro teachers in school told me this story about how this man bought a mini stallion to tease his herd of broodmares instead of using a stallion. Well he decided to turn him out with the mares because he was so little and that was he would be able to breed them and just look out and see what mare's are in heat. Well come time for the mares to be cycling and none seem to be, he calls out my teacher and low and behold all 34 TB racing broodmares are pregnant from this little mini stallion. So do not think it can not be done. It can. Always get a mare checked.;)

I agree to find a home for it after it is weaned as there are plenty of offers on the board already.

But if it comes down to it another horse to fill the slaughter houses is not a good thing, so I would understand your decision to euthanize it.

[~Freedom~]

The problem is that the OP left it to far to late to NOT have to go through with the foaling. Short of killing the foal either shortly before birth and encouraging the mare to late term abort (a risky proposition at best) or euthanizing the foal at birth, what else is the OP gonna do?

No one is forcing the OP to keep the foal, simply asking to let it live and send it after a week or so on the mare to any one of a number of folks who are willing to take up raising it to be a (hopefully) useful member of horsey society. I think by now we've got most of the US covered where ever the OP may be located!


I understand exactly where you are coming from and I hope the foal gets born healthy and someone adopts it.

My point was mainly directed at the attitude that the OP is discriminatory because the cross is not what she would breed to given a choice of stallions. I would have been mortified had my mare gotten bred to a colt that was not what I would have deemed as an acceptable cross to my mare. Certainly she should have checked the minute she knew there was a fully intact colt with her mare but what has been done is done and we can't undo time.

To the OP..let the mare foal out then wean the baby. This is the best course of action and least stressful for all. Then maybe one of the generous people here will be still willing to adopt it or you can find a decent home for it.

[Tiligsmom]

Honestly, if you were talking about abortion, I would support - your body, your choice. But you're not. You're talking about killing a new born foal - carried by a being other than you. The thought of this is staggeringly repugnant!

I'm not sorry you are faced with this. These are the types of life events that shape/build depth and character. By making this easy on yourself, and destroying this new born - especially for the reasons you stated - you take the coward's way out and this decision will haunt you for the rest of your life.

The fact that you're struggling with this decision is a good thing. It says you have a moral voice questioning the "rightness" of this decision. Are you a Monster? No, but you are at a crossroads. If you make the decision to kill this newborn foal, you will never forget, and - in the middle of the night, many months, years, decades down the line - you will remember this choice. It will eat at you like a cancer and every day you'll need to figure out how to forgive yourself.

You will be creating long term suffering for yourself by taking this way out.

[Appassionato]

No one is forcing the OP to keep the foal, simply asking to let it live and send it after a week or so on the mare to any one of a number of folks who are willing to take up raising it to be a (hopefully) useful member of horsey society. I think by now we've got most of the US covered where ever the OP may be located!

Is a week enough? Who's covering any overages for the horse being bred vs. euthanasia (totally decided upon by the OP, just my suggestion of overage over euth)? I hate to ask, but in that the vet needs to be paid (they've earned it), do the folks asking for the baby to live actually have the cash upfront for delivery plus any unforseen problems (since the OP admitted not having disposable cash for this)?

I'm not trying to be argumentative, maybe it's the attitude lately I've received from other students' "passing the buck." I hope I'm wrong and see the alter carrying on that the foal is to be adopted and the adoptee doesn't cary on how they "rescued" some foal when the OP was withjin the law as I understand it. Then again, I may not understand the law correctly.

[Milocalwinnings]

Is a week enough? Who's covering any overages for the horse being bred vs. euthanasia (totally decided upon by the OP, just my suggestion of overage over euth)? I hate to ask, but in that the vet needs to be paid (they've earned it), do the folks asking for the baby to live actually have the cash upfront for delivery plus any unforseen problems (since the OP admitted not having disposable cash for this)?

I'm not trying to be argumentative, maybe it's the attitude lately I've received from other students' "passing the buck." I hope I'm wrong and see the alter carrying on that the foal is to be adopted and the adoptee doesn't cary on how they "rescued" some foal when the OP was withjin the law as I understand it. Then again, I may not understand the law correctly.


If I'm understanding your post correctly, please correct me if I am not, are you asking if the person adopting the foal (or hopefully adopting the foal) is going to be paying for any expenses that are associated with the birth/pregnancy?

If so, then I would say that they should not be. It is not their fault the mare was bred, even accidentially. The mare would have to give birth to the foal anyway in order for her to euthanize the foal.... so she'll still have the costs of the vet coming out for that AND the cost of euth'ing it... so she'd be saving on the euth. fee and finding the foal a good home. If she doesn't adopt the foal out, she will be paying for the vet care associated with the foal's birth and the euthanasia. If she does adopt the foal out, she should still pay for the birth because that is not the resposibility of the adopter... they are already sacrificing enough to give the foal a chance- they shouldn't have to pay more for someone else's mistake. JMO

[Appassionato]

If I'm understanding your post correctly, please correct me if I am not, are you asking if the person adopting the foal (or hopefully adopting the foal) is going to be paying for any expenses that are associated with the birth/pregnancy?

If so, then I would say that they should not be. It is not their fault the mare was bred, even accidentially. The mare would have to give birth to the foal anyway in order for her to euthanize the foal.... so she'll still have the costs of the vet coming out for that AND the cost of euth'ing it... so she'd be saving on the euth. fee and finding the foal a good home. If she doesn't adopt the foal out, she will be paying for the vet care associated with the foal's birth and the euthanasia. If she does adopt the foal out, she should still pay for the birth because that is not the resposibility of the adopter... they are already sacrificing enough to give the foal a chance- they shouldn't have to pay more for someone else's mistake. JMO

I'll absolutely answer your very respectful question, especially if I didn't answer very well to start with...

I'm no birthing guru. Second, I'm not terribly familiar with horsey abortions. BUT, that all said, if someone WANTS this baby, why should the OP pay for it? If she's going to euth anyway, pay above what it takes to euth (Pay delivery +mare care (reasonable)).

Of course I'm sitting here speaking for the OP, but I'm trying to fnid a reasonable resolution for the problem as well. It is the OP's decision. What I think doesn't matter much; I own a gelding. Someone else's mistake in racing...but wanted b/c of other reasons nonetheless. I bought him because I wanted him; not because no one else did. While I agree that horses cannot help their athletic ability or conformation, but it isn't my fault someone bred it. I'm not trying to be callous, actually the other way around.

[Gayla]

I could never ever do a thing like that to a mare. Ever. Maybe you have never had a baby yourself. Sure terrible things happen in nature but to do it intentionally, unthinkable. Take your medicine, you should have had that mare checked and the foal pinched a year ago. Foals are not expensive usually. Most foals don't need a thing but their Dam, iodine on the cord stump and a clean place to live. It will be a doll baby and any of us here will take it when it is time to wean. If you love that mare, do the right thing. :yes:

[alter_E_go]

I do appreciate everyone taking their time to voice their opinions here.

I just wanted to say I do feel my post comes across as heartless. This is absolutely not an easy choice for me. Probably one of the hardest of my life. And also, I'm not trying to sweep this under the rug. If god forbid I made the choice to euthanize the foal upon birth, while I wouldn't go screaming it from the roof tops, I would fully own up to my decision.

And honestly, who does this really affect in the end besides my vet and me? I don't even think you can make a good point for it affecting the mare without completely being an anthropomorphist. Mares lose their foals all the time and survive without making appearances on Dr. Phil. Yes, she would grieve, yes it would be heart wrenching, but in a few days or less I guarantee she'd be no worse for the wear. And it's probably healthier and much more affordable for a still growing horse NOT to be lactating through the winter months, especially when hay is tight in my area this year.

I prefer to keep my confidentiality right now because, well, look how passionate these responses are. Could you imagine having this debate with friends and acquaintances, and the true colors that would come out? Since nothing is confirmed yet, I'd prefer not to have people passing judgment on me personally for something that is nothing more than hypothetical at the moment.

I will agree I made a mistake not preg checking her last December. That is the past and there is nothing I can do about it. Hindsight is 20/20, and all the usual cliches. I am sure that most of you castigating me have made mistakes in your past as well. And I'm sure you wouldn't appreciate it if I hashed them out repeatedly here, making you feel like complete crap. I already feel horrible enough right now. I really don't think this is a point you need to be waving in my face to make me feel worse. I get it. And by the way, the filly DID show signs of heat all spring into summer. Yes, I've had mares that show heat all through their pregnancy, but come on. I am not trying to make excuses, but I bet there's quite a few of you who would have made the same mistake as me.

And while I'm responsible for the mistake of not preg checking her, I am not following the logic as to how this implicates that I now have a lifetime obligation to a foal I did not breed or want. If anything, the dipshit BO who cared for my horses while I was moving should be responsible (yes, I was moving, and moving quite a distance at that, which is why I wasn't there to see who my horses were going out with. They were supposed to be in a private paddock amongst themselves). But as I said before, after making the mistake of entrusting my horses with this BO once, I would never entrust another equine life with her again.

I truly appreciate all the generous offers, as I said in a post before. As soon as she is checked by the vet, I will start pursuing them. Of course, if I can find a quality, lifetime home for this possible foal, I would MUCH rather go with that option first. I would love to find a lifetime home. But I stand by my opinion that this foal would be more at risk than average to become dog meat. And there is no way in heck that I would let that happen to a foal out of one of my horses. Call me immature, irresponsible, whatever. I would rather not risk my mare's foal ending up on a double decker to Mexico.

To the poster who said that this is all just because of my distaste for indiscriminately bred horses, well, as untactful as your post was, you are right. And I think that's a good thing. I am NOT against cross breeds, I am not a breed snob, I've owned plenty of cross-bred, unregistered horses in my life. But I strongly believe there are too many crap, useless horses in this world. Just look at the writing on the wall. Five minutes surfing craigslist and you will see dozens of horses of little to no use besides pets or companion animals. If I feel breeders should discriminate and breed only horses that will be of use to them or others, so sue me.

I have seen the colt my filly might be in foal to, and I can tell you, he did not have any desirable qualities worth passing on. If I had the means to provide this foal a life home, believe me I would. I am as much of a horse lover as everyone else here. But honestly, I work hard enough for the little bit I do have. I cannot go beyond my means to keep a foal I don't even want. And as I said in another post earlier, I know I wouldn't keep the foal for myself if it was by some big name gorgeous stallion instead of a backyard breeding debacle. But I also wouldn't be having qualms about potentially releasing a horse on the world that may serve no purpose other than a companion or a mercy case.

And I can't even believe some people are comparing this to humans. :no: That is just ludicrous to me. Let's keep this HR.

So just let me wrap up this way too long post- I do not want to do this. With so many offers for homes, I will pursue them and am glad I have an outlet. I really do appreciate everyone taking the time to weigh in. It has given me a lot to think about.

And I truly, truly appreciate the kind words and support many have given. This makes this load just a little easier to carry.

[Gayla]

Why is the double decker ride to Mexico so much worse than loosing a foal? You are picking and choosing when you want to sympathize with a horse and when you want to make it an animal that will get past it.

[alter_E_go]

Why is the double decker ride to Mexico so much worse than loosing a foal? You are picking and choosing when you want to sympathize with a horse and when you want to make it an animal that will get past it.

Because I feel a trip to a slaughter house or a life of neglect is one of the cruelest fates a horse can suffer. Much worse than losing it's life at birth. The foal isn't going to know it's dead. But I am pretty sure it will know if it is starving.

And face it, a crossbred mutt that has conformation that limits its usefulness is more likely to end up in that bad situation than a nice correct riding horse. I'm not saying that ugly horses are always killed, or that nice riding horses never get abused. But I think it's pretty well stated that useless horses are more at risk.

[Still Workingonit]

Having had mares go through three "unsuccessful" preganancies, I absolutely consider that you are being unreasonable! Sorry, I am blunt but that is my opinion. You need to thinkof others - and I am not being anthromorphical.

The fact that your now 2ish mare may be preganant is completely your fault. Okay, you ddnt breed her but you were aware that she was in with a colt - the fact that she cycled is not an issue - you did not chose to have her flushed out when you got her out of that situation. Point: My then 2 yr old Hanno mare was "bred" by a hideously bad stud (who should have been in a can not just gelded !!!). Well, it could have been according to his owner when he was recovered from her paddock a couple of farms over. I rang the vet IMMEDIATELY and had her flushed/PGd the same day - and again one week later and scanned 4 weeks later to make sure - and, for certain, we flushed her again! YAY! NO foal.

The second mare was bought and, after 6 months, she was definitely showing as being very pregant. I was very concerned as to what was going to be the result - mare foaled and, WOW what a beautiful foal (and the mare was not the prettiest thing on the planet but a fab mum) - and he is now gelded and is an all-rounder showing Level 3 dressage, sj 1.2m, eventing at our Novice (1.10+) and competing at 40km CTRs!!! This mare now has a successful "career" as a Embryo Transfer recipient mare - so far 5 successful foals (and one for my Hanno mare from above who is now planned pregant after a career-ending paddock injury). She is loved on for her great success - 1st time ET each time.

The third mare/foal - well, it was wanted but was PTS at 3 days due to internal issues. The mare MOURNED, hell the whole herd MOURNED, and were down for some weeks!!!

FIND A HOME POST-WEANING

[JoZ]

"Useless" is much more determined by training and skills -- and even fate and circumstance -- than by looks. Unless the foal has limb deformities that make it unable to perform, it will not be useless just because of its inauspicious start.

[alter_E_go]

Having had mares go through three "unsuccessful" preganancies, I absolutely consider that you are being unreasonable! Sorry, I am blunt but that is my opinion. You need to thinkof others - and I am not being anthromorphical.

The fact that your now 2ish mare may be preganant is completely your fault. Okay, you ddnt breed her but you were aware that she was in with a colt - the fact that she cycled is not an issue - you did not chose to have her flushed out when you got her out of that situation. Point: My then 2 yr old Hanno mare was "bred" by a hideously bad stud (who should have been in a can not just gelded !!!). Well, it could have been according to his owner when he was recovered from her paddock a couple of farms over. I rang the vet IMMEDIATELY and had her flushed/PGd the same day - and again one week later and scanned 4 weeks later to make sure - and, for certain, we flushed her again! YAY! NO foal.

The second mare was bought and, after 6 months, she was definitely showing as being very pregant. I was very concerned as to what was going to be the result - mare foaled and, WOW what a beautiful foal (and the mare was not the prettiest thing on the planet but a fab mum) - and he is now gelded and is an all-rounder showing Level 3 dressage, sj 1.2m, eventing at our Novice (1.10+) and competing at 40km CTRs!!! This mare now has a successful "career" as a Embryo Transfer recipient mare - so far 5 successful foals (and one for my Hanno mare from above who is now planned pregant after a career-ending paddock injury). She is loved on for her great success - 1st time ET each time.

The third mare/foal - well, it was wanted but was PTS at 3 days due to internal issues. The mare MOURNED, hell the whole herd MOURNED, and were down for some weeks!!!

FIND A HOME POST-WEANING

I appreciate your opinion, but I see no point. You were smart enough to get her preg checked right away. I made the mistake not to. You had means to care for the foals. I don't. You're better than me. You win at life. Happy?

I am sorry, that is catty. I do apologize. But it's getting to the point where I feel people are just trying to glorify themselves.

Did you read I can't keep the foal? Did you read that I am going to pursue these leads for homes? I want to pursue just about all of them. Hopefully one will work out. But gosh darn it, what if they don't? There's already one person who said something along the lines of I'd love to bottle raise the foal and then find it a home. No way. I wouldn't give a foal to someone who thinks it would be fun to raise baby, then wants to ditch it. Maybe they would really take the time to find it a good home. But maybe they would just try to turn a buck on the deal, and then my nightmares are confirmed.

I am sorry to single you out. I am just sitting right here now, feeling sick from the whole thing. I by no means expected people to jump for joy at this situation and expected plenty of negative feedback. But hearing about every foal ever isn't going to change my mind I don't want to keep it.

[alter_E_go]

"Useless" is much more determined by training and skills -- and even fate and circumstance -- than by looks. Unless the foal has limb deformities that make it unable to perform, it will not be useless just because of its inauspicious start.

I totally agree with you.

Said colt, and the colt's dam for that matter, had relatively severe angular limb deformities that would concern me about not only his soundness, but that of the possible foal's. Yes, yearlings look wonky, but crooked legs are crooked legs. I don't think I'm unjustified in my concern.

[twhrider13]

Seems to me that you've already made your decision, and you want us to support it. If that be the case, then there's really no point in continuing the discussion, is there? :confused:

[alter_E_go]

Seems to me that you've already made your decision, and you want us to support it. If that be the case, then there's really no point in continuing the discussion, is there? :confused:

You know what? You're right. I think I have now. I have some leads for potential homes if I need and nothing can be done until she is checked. Guess there isn't much point in discussing it. ;)

[Foxtrot's]

Sitting in judgement of the OP is destructive. Sound, well-thought of advice is what she was asking for. I believe she got that. Like many difficult decisions what is right for one person is not right for another. It sounded to me like she never dreamed that her mare could have been caught by the colt at their young ages, and therefore why would she have had a preg check until other signs showed? The blame-game never helped anyone.

[LarkspurCO]

I am questioning why you seek the approval or assurance from others. If you have guilt or doubt about the morality of this, you need to look within yourself. Ask yourself what is the right thing to do. Consider how you will feel about your decision when you come to the end of your own life and look back on your deeds. Take some time to put things into perspective. Maybe the foal will hit the ground a perfect carbon copy of its dam, and you will fall in love. What then?

[R D Lite]

I am questioning why you seek the approval or assurance from others. If you have guilt or doubt about the morality of this, you need to look within yourself. Ask yourself what is the right thing to do. Consider how you will feel about your decision when you come to the end of your own life and look back on your deeds. Take some time to put things into perspective.

This really is a very good point when you consider that many of us feel guilt after euthanizing a horse even when we made the decision only because the horse truly had no other hope for a pain-free life. (Yes, I understand that the OP is hoping to prevent the horse from someday going to slaughter or somesuch, but there's still a huge difference between putting down a healthy foal and putting down a terminally ill or injured animal.) I know that it took me a good long while to stop feeling guilt or doubt about putting down my own horse, and there is no question in my rational mind that I did what was best for him and that I exhausted all other options first. Larkspur is wise to ask the OP to really consider the issue from his/her own perspective (and I'm sure the OP has done so, but sometimes I think we believe that once the decision is made and done it will stop affecting us). Perhaps this isn't an issue for some people--maybe some people really don't look back--but the OP has stated that this is a difficult decision and has asked for advice, which would suggest some degree of indecision. This one doesn't seem like a case in which to proceed with anything less than 100 percent moral certainty.

[TheCoppertop]

For a WB/TWH/QH? Are you kidding? How many of you want to BUY that critter? And sure, once in a blue moon a nice foal comes out of a crap stallion like this. The rest are post legged, back at the knee, straight-shouldered, ewe-necked, crooked-leg freaks that are permanently lame by age 2. Now that's a life for a horse - let it live for 2 years with progressive amounts of pain until it's barely pasture sound, then let its owner ship it to Mexico or foist it on a rescue. Maybe you can shove it off to a 4-H kid. Oh wait, even THEY don't want a green-broke lame horse when they can get a sound, trained horse for pennies.


This cracks me up.. we're definitely reading too much FHOTD!!

If crappy breeding leads to this much conformational devastation.. where are all the 2 year old horses crawling around on their elbows?? I just don't see it.

Many badly conformed horses may not be pleasant to look at or ride, may age a little more poorly, but completely handicapped by 2 due to post legs and a ewe neck? Dramatic much??

[souvenir]

I haven't read through every single post, but is it possible to send the euthanized foal to a university for study?

That way this foal's existence would not be ultimately considered totally "useless," rather it would provide information to those who are learning in the DVM field.

[grayarabpony]

If your mare is pregnant and you decide to give the foal away, I would strongly recommend leaving the foal with the mother until the foal is 2-3 months old. It's hard on a foal to be bucket-raised.

[deltawave]

I skipped over what sounded like a bunch of really weird, pro-life stuff. Why not just have the mare aborted?

[Daydream Believer]

I skipped over what sounded like a bunch of really weird, pro-life stuff. Why not just have the mare aborted?

It is WAY too late to do that. The mare is in her last trimester and in a horse, inducing labor in any way is a recipe for disaster...not just for the foal but for the mare. That baby will come when it is in position and ready and to force it to come early would put the mare at a terrible risk for a dystocia.

With a mare you can only really "abort" a foal in the first couple of months. A simple shot of Lutylase would force her to cycle and terminate the pregnancy with nothing more than a bit of sweating or cramping...and even that can be avoided using the microdose method of administering that drug.

[Priscilla]

Personally I could never kill a healthy horse. I think the OP has many options, with euthanasia being the last resort.
Please re-think your decision regarding this situation, at least give the foal a chance at a happy life.:(

[ShotenStar]

I am questioning why you seek the approval or assurance from others.

Some people have a collaborative / interactive decision-making style ... check out things like the Myers-Briggs Type Indicator for a more detailed discussion. The internet allows for this to happen in ways that are 'safer' for some of these really ugly decisions ... the OP has received input / feedback on her thought processes that would probably not be available in real life, since confiding this type of decision would be difficult.

*star*

[YankeeLawyer]

Personally, I couldn't and wouldn't ever put down a healthy horse.

I would however have an unwanted foal aborted.

I would never choose to hand rear a foal. And I've got one of my own now! Though his dam died tragically foaling him. Hand rearing a foal is hard and its not for the faint hearted or the amature with little experience.

Ditto.

I would go after the barn owner that turned her stud colt out wth your filly and make them pay the vet bills.

I would not wean the foal at birth, either. It is not fair to the foal and will only make an already difficult situation worse.

[murphyluv]

Just a little story for everyone who thinks that there is no way their mares could be pregnant because of blah blah blah..One of my equine repro teachers in school told me this story about how this man bought a mini stallion to tease his herd of broodmares instead of using a stallion. Well he decided to turn him out with the mares because he was so little and that was he would be able to breed them and just look out and see what mare's are in heat. Well come time for the mares to be cycling and none seem to be, he calls out my teacher and low and behold all 34 TB racing broodmares are pregnant from this little mini stallion. So do not think it can not be done. It can. Always get a mare checked.;)
.

Holy crap! I'm still wondering about that one...
Anyways, all that aside, for those still believing the OP is going to euth the foal...read her last posts!! IT sounds like she's trying to find it a home. Put yourself in her shoes and realize how difficult a decision this is to make, and it sounds like she made a good decision. She owned up to the fact that it is her mistake she didn't check the mare, give her some sympathy. I bet none of you have ever made a mistake before..

[tempichange]

In response to J Swan. Don't forget that vets are people too. It is emotionally difficulty to kill a horse because of illness. It is even more emotionally difficult for a vet to kill a healthy and horse or foal, particularly if the vet feels it might be placeable in a good home. I know of a couple of vet students who used their own money to buy a cute young pony who they had been instructed to euthanize and use as an anatomy/dissection specimen. The more they looked at this pony, the more they realized they couldn't kill him. After they talked the owner into selling them the pony for $150, they gelded him, found him a good home, and transported him across the state to the home. Asking a vet to kill a healthy foal is a lot like asking an Ob-gyn to do a second trimester abortion. Some Ob-gyns can do it and some can't. As an owner, you should not be able to force your doctor/vet to do this.

I'm sorry, but that doesn't cut it with me. I was prevet for a long time, and I had to kill/euth perfectly good animals for biology, heck, I had to do it when people brought their unspayed females in two months to birth. You cannot afford to be emotionally attached to an animal's situation when get that title.

To the OP: you have some serious cajones for taking responsibility for a situation where most people would dump and run. Do what is right to you.

[mrs.smith]

Holy crap! I'm still wondering about that one...
Anyways, all that aside, for those still believing the OP is going to euth the foal...read her last posts!! IT sounds like she's trying to find it a home. Put yourself in her shoes and realize how difficult a decision this is to make, and it sounds like she made a good decision. She owned up to the fact that it is her mistake she didn't check the mare, give her some sympathy. I bet none of you have ever made a mistake before..

I'm not wondering. I saw my haflinger mare lay down in an attempt to get a 8 hand pony GELDING to breed her. The (*@$%# hussy. :dead:

[matryoshka]

My $.02, not having read the whole thread. ;) Is there a local rescue nearby? Anybody willing to take the foal upon weaning? I'd look for a potential home for the foal who'd be willing to take one weaned fairly early (couple of months) and who will help with vac's. There are people who will do this.

I was in a somewhat similar situation when one of the rescues I foster turned out to be pregnant. I didn't want another horse, but I decided I'd keep the foal no matter what it looked like. It is not a financial hardship for me, so it was not a tough decision. I would have kept the foal if even if it was sway backed, ewe necked, and had all four feet pointing in different directions. Luckily, she is a gorgeous little thing that looks like she's either a Haflinger/Paint cross or Haflinger/Gypsy-type cross. She's not perfect, but she's a gem. She's quite a cheerful sight in my field, sturdily walking next to my husband's WB or trying to kick my OTTB away from his hay pile. It helps that I love ponies. :D I've always wanted a pinto, and who would have thought a Haflinger mare would deliver a colorful pinto?

There are people out there who are willing to raise unwanted foals. The tough part is finding them and making sure they are capable of raising and training it!!

Sorry you are in such a difficult situation. At least you have some weeks to think of a solution and decide whether you are comfortable with the choices you make. From the time I realized the little Haflinger was pregnant to foaling was 6 weeks. That is enough time to look for options and to see how you feel about it.

[Dazednconfused]

I can't believe people are suggesting weaning this foal at a few days or a week old to be raised by a bucket? CHOOSING to produce a bucket baby? Yes, there are success stories, but the vast majority never realize that they are horses and not humans...I'd hardly call that setting up a foal for success. Furthermore, if you've left the baby with the mare for that week, you've already had to pay for the IgG which is just about all they need at that stage - and it doesn't cost anything to feed him for the next two months at least.

I can't believe people are seriously suggesting to wean this foal at a week old :confused:

Good luck with whatever you decide, it's not an easy one, that is for sure.

[Merhorse]

To the OP - I'm sorry to hear about the situation you're facing, any choice isn't going to be an easy one.

In regards to how desirable a "mutt" is...assuming the foal ends up with decent conformation (which is possible) and decent temperament, there are people out there who would be interested, although I'll admit that there are more horses like this than people to take them. On the other hand, it's hard to find these horses, too, particularly if you are looking for one with a guaranteed good history without abuse/neglect.

I've gone horse shopping several times in the past 2 years just look for a horse with good enough conformation to be sound with moderate work, sane enough for someone who isn't overly brave, and big enough for someone who is 5'10", no weird medical issues, and green was fine and being a mutt was fine. That was actually pretty hard to find, and I wasn't even looking for a good mover/jumper or anything! Basically, it's just hard to find the "honda civic" of horses. No guarantees your foal will be a honda, but hypothetically if he/she was....

anyways, good luck with whatever you decide.

[myhorse]

I offered a free eligible for reg. weanling on this very site. One person inquired. They were unable to follow through. So, I am curious to see how many people really follow through with their offers once the foal (if it does) becomes reality.

The OP, you do what you can live with. I couldn't do it which is why I am finding homes for my GOOD foals in order to keep the one with problems. I have a filly that is as useless as they come and she is only 5 months old. I still can't bring myself to put her down.

[Whisper]

While many mares do foal out without complications, it's a lot riskier for a 2 y/o filly. Lactating takes a lot out of even mature mares, and it can be tough for a growing filly to meet her own as well as the foal's needs, even if she's fed very carefully. :(

I don't see how keeping the baby until it is weaned would help with the euth. decision - she'd be more likely to be attached after several months of taking care of the foal, I'd think.

Anyway, I hope you do find a suitable home for the foal, and that your filly comes through ok!

[matryoshka]

I would think a person would have more luck looking for a local home than posting on a BB. Sometimes distance is the problem. But you are right: just because someone says they will take the foal doesn't mean they actually will once it is born. That's why a rescue could be of help. A good, reputable rescue.

Bless you for finding homes for the good ones and keeping the tough ones. I seriously thought the foal from the foster horse would turn out to be undesirable and was still willing to give her a life-long home. People like us are out there, but we aren't always easy to find. It's not like we put out ads asking for the unwanted horses of the world!

[ReSomething]

Okay, I am approaching this from my re-rider perspective - that is, most of my horse experience was acquired over 30 years ago, in a working environment. Foals came when they came, no ultrasounds, no IGg, kept in the same pastures as their dams with little to no intervention, and sometimes those pastures were fenced in barbed wire, too.

If this were me and my filly, and I owned my own farm and was not at a boarding stable, I wouldn't worry about it too much, let the mare have the foal. It is too late to abort, the possible dangers of a hard delivery are a reality if she does turn out to be pregnant. The foal having no value to me, I wouldn't expend a great deal of time or effort on it's health issues. If the foal fails to thrive, then so be it. I doubt I would euth it as soon as it hits the ground though. Once it weans naturally, I would most likely donate it; whether to a teaching university, a 4-H group or other. Possibly at that point I would reconsider euth. It is your horse, and you have a right to do as you see fit with it, euth included.

I do find this to be an interesting moral and ethical question - many posters have pointed out that companion animals are regularly given to shelters in the hope of finding a new home, when the reality is there is no new home, the shelter will have to euth. So all the donor has done is avoid facing the issue.
And FHotd not withstanding, fugly is as fugly does. Incorrect conformation may reduce athletic ability or shorten a working lifespan; or it may not. Secretariat had quite the goose rump, Seabiscuit was a fugly mess. Both famous athletes.

My best wishes to you for a non-pregnant filly, and thank you for posing a question that brings this issue of the unwanted to the discussion table in a real life situation, for better or worse.

[BabyGoose]

This cracks me up.. we're definitely reading too much FHOTD!!

If crappy breeding leads to this much conformational devastation.. where are all the 2 year old horses crawling around on their elbows?? I just don't see it.

Many badly conformed horses may not be pleasant to look at or ride, may age a little more poorly, but completely handicapped by 2 due to post legs and a ewe neck? Dramatic much??

NO KIDDING! Seems since Fugly Horse has become so popular it is an "off with their fugly head" attitude and another poster several pages ago said. I understand and agree with "Fugly's" point about indiscriminate breeding and discouraging it. But I also have a friend who breeds nice holsteiners, with good pedigrees and they are far from "fugly" but he can't sell them either. There are too many horses period! There are plenty of horses with conformation that is less than ideal that work fine and can actually end up being very athletic and useful if people could just get past that it isn't perfect.

OP, you didn't realize she was pregnant, you didn't get her checked, whatever, that is all in the past. I personally don't understand your complete disdain for this little horse that hasn't even been born yet. I have never seen a horse that I considered ugly anyway. TO me they are all beautiful in their own way. But you are entitled to your feelings and opinions. The mare has to give birth to the foal anyway and I am hoping along with you that all goes well for her. But please followup with your thoughts to find this foal a home rather than euthanize. If you start looking now you can screen potential adopters. Let the foal be weaned. You can't ride your mare at such a young age anyway, but you can still do stuff with her with a foal at her side. My trainer carriage drives her mares with the foal tied to the shafts once they are old enough. It trains the foal at the same time. You can still do lots of ground work with the mare during that time. Also, give the foal a good start by halter breaking it. Give the foal a chance, it might not be so deformed as you think it will be.

[Ghazzu]

Well now isn't that fine and dandy. We're not allowed to put an unwanted horse down, we're not allowed to send it to slaughter, we can't keep it, and we don't want to foist our responsibility off on others.

Now exactly what the hell is an owner supposed to freakin' do?

Thank you, JSwan, for putting it so well.

[Ghazzu]

Losing a foal a few minutes after birth is devestating for many mares. That is something that is NOT natural.

Au contraire, it is entirely natural.
Foals die at birth with some frequency.
That's why there are NICUs at veterinary hospitals.

[grayarabpony]

While many mares do foal out without complications, it's a lot riskier for a 2 y/o filly. Lactating takes a lot out of even mature mares, and it can be tough for a growing filly to meet her own as well as the foal's needs, even if she's fed very carefully. :(

I don't see how keeping the baby until it is weaned would help with the euth. decision - she'd be more likely to be attached after several months of taking care of the foal, I'd think.

Anyway, I hope you do find a suitable home for the foal, and that your filly comes through ok!


You must never have raised an orphan foal.

[armandh]

if it looks like it's sire, when weaned, take it back to Mr screwups barn and let him deal with it

[RiddleMeThis]

There are plenty of horses with conformation that is less than ideal that work fine and can actually end up being very athletic and useful if people could just get past that it isn't perfect.

EXACTLY!!! She cant afford this foal. She can't afford to raise it. And as you said there are PLENTY of horses like hers. PLENTY with no where to go! PLENTY being sent to slaughter! PLENTY being starved! Why add one more to the bunch?????

I personally don't understand your complete disdain for this little horse that hasn't even been born yet. I have never seen a horse that I considered ugly anyway..
It is not just that it is ugly. Please refer to the top of my post.
Off topic kinda-If you have never seen an ugly horse you must not read fuglyhorseoftheday

[BabyGoose]

EXACTLY!!! She cant afford this foal. She can't afford to raise it. And as you said there are PLENTY of horses like hers. PLENTY with no where to go! PLENTY being sent to slaughter! PLENTY being starved! Why add one more to the bunch?????


It is not just that it is ugly. Please refer to the top of my post.
Off topic kinda-If you have never seen an ugly horse you must not read fuglyhorseoftheday

Because I think there is an option here. There have been people willing to take it. It only has to be raised until weaning. If the OP is that close to being completely broke, then they shouldn't have the horses they already have. What happens if one of them accrues a big vet bill? If the foal turns out to have a lot of problems that would lead to extraordinary measures to raise, then consider euthanizing. But a healthy foal should be given a chance. I don't think people should be breeding everything that walks, but this was an accident, why not give the foal a chance.


I do read fugly horse. You misunderstood. I personally don't consider any horse ugly. I have seen horses with conformational shortcomings. I own two. A lot of people would consider them ugly. I just personally don't consider any horse ugly. If other people think they are ugly, that is their right. But I don't like the trend of people equating ugly with having no right to live.

[abrant]

I don't think the OPer is being as selfish as you all think.

IMO, the baby is better off going to sleep immediately rather than living an unknown existance. Sure, we can all come up with ancedotes that everything turned out SWELL, but I can take a short trip to the sale-barn and give you 100 stories about it not turning out swell.

I'm sure if you look at the Mexico export numbers, there are that many stories of things not turning out swell.

I bought my Pony from a salebarn. I was the only bidder against the Cavel dealer. If I had not been there, he would have been slaughtered. Which, IMO, was 10x better than starving to death in someones pasture. A quiet euthanasia at home, better than slaughter (we can agree on that, right?).

I don't overestimate my role in his life. If I had a headache or a flat tire, things wouldn't have turned out so cheery for him. That's why I won't use his happiness as an example of things turning out swell, it was too much of an outside chance.

As far as finding a vet to a do euthanasia... shouldn't be hard. Just discuss the situation with them. I had an injured foal euthanized... after she was gone, he 'inspected' with injury futher and announced that with the exception of lasting nerve and joint damage, she may have been pasture sound.... eventually (which is what I had believed... but the decision was made outside my power). As much as I wanted to scream at him for not assuring me of this *before*, I understand he knows MUCH more about animal suffering that I do... and he knows how to make a good decision. I trust him and his values. Vets don't live in worlds of happiness and sunshine.

I would go so far as to say that a vet who will not work to PREVENT suffering... is not a vet I want to work with. If they just want to saunter into my barn and be a hero to everyone... their ego doesn't belong.

And just as a PSA to young mare owners. If you find yourself in ANY similiar situation, get a shot of Lutalyse from your vet and follow their directions. It WON'T HURT a non-pregnant mare... it will terminate an early pregnancy in a pregnant mare and just cause a non-pregnant mare to short-cycle. For about 10 bucks and some cramps (for the mare) you can save a lot of trouble.

Don't hem and haw about the cost of a preg check (which is not as cheap as ya'll would say... trip charge, palpation, ultrasound... more like $140-160 around here, $90 in cheaper parts of the world).... just call your vet and say "my mare might have been exposed to a stallion, can I have a shot of lutalyse".

[meaty ogre]

I've read through all the posts on this one due to a slow day at work. As often happens on this BB, I think most of the posters are well-intentioned, but maybe not well-informed. I think we would all like to belive that there is a home for every horse. I know when I used to be a social worker I wanted to believe there was a home for every kid out there but you know what, there just isn't.
There are worse things than an unwanted TWH/QH/WB cross foal. A hand-raised TWH/QH/WB foal comes to mind as one. It seems like a reasonable suggestion for a horselover to recommend finding an adopter, but to any horselover who has raised or had to take care of an orphan or a hand-raised foal, they know better.
I guess the best case scenario would be that you stumble upon a *responsible* adopter who is willing to take your mare during the foaling through weaning process, keep the foal, and send the mare back to you in good shape (since you said your place is not set up for a mare and foal). Maybe that situation will present itself. In the land of floods, droughts, forest fires, high grain prices and hay shortages, well, it just doesn't seem likely.
Chastising you for considering euthanization is about as useful as the comments telling you to give it to the owners of the colt or some local rescue to deal with. Obviously some of the posters haven't thought this all the way through yet. Even though your decision isn't ideal, your situation certainly wasn't ideal either, and at least you have given realistic consideration on both your mare and the resulting foal's welfare. I'm sure whatever decision you reach will result in angst for you. Good luck to you, and here's hoping that the mare isn't in foal or that suitable adopter comes out the woodworks for you.

[CarouselPony]

*Note - I'm glad the OP is actually considering offering up this baby, but I need to get this off my chest.


With all the talk about people jumping on the 'FHOTD' (which I read every day without fail) and 'Owner's rights' and 'Poor thing might end up at the feed lot or starving in the back yard...'

Well, there's this little thing about RESPONSIBLE OWNERSHIP - the OP had 11 horse forsaken months to consider the possibilities. Can't afford a foal? God forbid a huge vet bill for an emergency

FHOTD talks about irresponsible breeding - of which this is clearly a case, not just whether Fugly horses are ok to own or ride.

'The poor thing's future' just doesn't wash - Look what happened to Exceller - the same year he was nominated for the Racing Hall of Fame, he died in a slaughter house. A tornado may strike and wipe out your barn, some psycho may creep into your pasture at night and kill your animal, the horse you bought to ride after your pasture puff passes colics and dies two weeks after you get it (happened to me) - life happens. The time to consider terminating the foal had LONG passed.

Before you label me as some 'anti slaughter/ can save all the animals' ranter and raver, I KNOW thousands of animals die every day in shelters, but as a responsible owner, my three (now two) cats have lifetime homes (the third was euthanized on monday at 17 when her quality of life was gone-and none of them ever 'littered'.) I know there's a need for slaughter, however, I've always felt there's a flaw in the current system (especially in transport and handling) - just for what it's worth.

[MySparrow]

You know what? You're right. I think I have now. I have some leads for potential homes if I need and nothing can be done until she is checked. Guess there isn't much point in discussing it. ;)

I really honor you for making this decision. I hope you find lots of people who are willing and able to help, and that you'll enthrall us all by posting pictures of the wee one when it's born (IF she's pregnant! We can still hope....)

All the best.

[alter_E_go]

*Note - I'm glad the OP is actually considering offering up this baby, but I need to get this off my chest.


With all the talk about people jumping on the 'FHOTD' (which I read every day without fail) and 'Owner's rights' and 'Poor thing might end up at the feed lot or starving in the back yard...'

Well, there's this little thing about RESPONSIBLE OWNERSHIP - the OP had 11 horse forsaken months to consider the possibilities. Can't afford a foal? God forbid a huge vet bill for an emergency

FHOTD talks about irresponsible breeding - of which this is clearly a case, not just whether Fugly horses are ok to own or ride.

'The poor thing's future' just doesn't wash - Look what happened to Exceller - the same year he was nominated for the Racing Hall of Fame, he died in a slaughter house. A tornado may strike and wipe out your barn, some psycho may creep into your pasture at night and kill your animal, the horse you bought to ride after your pasture puff passes colics and dies two weeks after you get it (happened to me) - life happens. The time to consider terminating the foal had LONG passed.

Before you label me as some 'anti slaughter/ can save all the animals' ranter and raver, I KNOW thousands of animals die every day in shelters, but as a responsible owner, my three (now two) cats have lifetime homes (the third was euthanized on monday at 17 when her quality of life was gone-and none of them ever 'littered'.) I know there's a need for slaughter, however, I've always felt there's a flaw in the current system (especially in transport and handling) - just for what it's worth.

Ok, but I'll go to the mattresses against you on the RESPONSIBLE OWNERSHIP thing.

Yeah, I effed up not checking her in December. But don't you know the first thing that went through my head when I saw fullness around her udder was "OH MY GOSH I AM SUCH AN IDIOT, WHY didn't I check her last year???" But that is the past. I messed up, and I said it again and again. It's not like I spent the past 11 months KNOWING she was pregnant. And if you saw her right now, I bet you wouldn't think she is pregnant either aside from having more a little more of a bag than a non-pregnant 2 year old should have.

I don't see how this means I am now responsible for this potential foal for the rest of it's life. People dump horses all the time. I AM NOT ONE OF THOSE PEOPLE.

I have 3 horses that live quite comfortably. (I don't know where people are getting this 2 horse number, I keep saying that) I work very hard to keep it that way. An emergency comes up? I can handle it. But what I can't handle is the day to day cost of one more horse. While a 4th horse wouldn't put me in bankruptcy, it would definitely affect me and my carefully planned budget. I would have to cut corners big time to make it work in a permanent situation. Why should I feel I should have to feed my horses lesser quality hay, maybe go an extra week between farrier appointments, drop to a cheaper feed, or skimp on some of the less necessary vaccinations all for a foal I don't want and didn't breed? That hardly seems fair to my other 3 horses.

I am fully aware I could let the mare have this foal and try to sell it at weaning. But really, what is the market like for a crossbred mutt weanling? As many have said, not good. People are having a hard enough time moving well-bred weanlings. I was not setting out to breed horses and don't have the means to keep this foal for months or years trying to sell it, as a responsible breeder should have. I don't have the best foal raising facilities, either.

Would any of you looking for a horse answer an ad for a WB/TWH/QH weanling? Especially if it happens to get the misfortune of inheriting some of the sire's conformational defects? I doubt it. And if you would, how much would you really be willing to spend on this horse? Probably not enough to recoup the costs of me raising it.

The people who would most likely inquire about this foal, unfortunately, are going to be the less-than-horse-savvy types, who think it would be fun to buy a baby for the kids. And I don't think it takes a rocket scientist to realize those horses frequently end up in bad situations. Not always, but frequently. That's the very reason I won't put an ad up on craigslist and let the first dope who comes along buy the foal. That hardly seems like the responsible answer to me.

Nor does it seem fair to fill up a rescue's resources when there are so many more horses in this country more in need.

If someone is willing to give this (maybe non-existent) foal a guaranteed home and do right by it, great! Perfect! That is absolutely the best option. But I think I AM being responsible and realistic considering euthanasia as a possibility if nothing else works out.

And for the hundredth time, I am going to look into homes for the foal. Case closed. I really hope one of them works out.

Exceller, Ferdinand, and the like are all examples that bad things can happen to good horses. But I hardly see how that applies to a crossbred, unborn mutt.

[hitchinmygetalong]

Alter, I wish you the best and I also hope that your filly (she is still a filly) has nothing more than a false pregnancy.

Good luck next week.

[tweeter]

Alter, I'm not sure what I'd do were I in your position....but I support you, whatever your decision.

[JustJump]

Some of the most surprisingly nice horses I've ever known have been "accidents" with unbelievably unlikely crosses, and some disconcerting incrosses--ie mother to unweaned son, for instance! I'm sure that it wouldn't be that hard to adopt out--yours sounds like a nice mare, and the mare is a huge part of what the foal turns out to be.

Unless your filly is unhealthy, carrying or caring for a foal shouldn't put her at risk. Some of the warmblood breeders in Europe purposefully breed their young fillies, for one thing to see what they have got in them as broodmare prospects, and on the other hand to maximize their yield--no point sitting a young horse around watching it grow when it could produce more product.

As well, I would have to believe that raising a foal is the best route to recovery for a mare who has delivered one, much as breast feeding is the quickest and most effective way back to fitness for a human mother. Separating mother and baby at birth is just not a healthy thing, unless for some reason, the foal MUST be hand raised. I would be prone to keep mother and foal together for several months on that score--then wean, and get the mare started at work.

[JustJump]

Why don't you try to place this foal "in-utero," with the prospective adoptee taking over its expenses at birth? As I said, your mare sounds nice; although this isn't a stud anyone would have picked, the foal isn't necessarily going to be a complete disaster.

[annikak]

sometimes I wish people would read the whole thread before responding, esp in a situation that is as charged as this one is destined to be. Esp- read the first post carefully.

The OP said she feared her filly was pregnant. That implies, along with the alter, that this is a very difficult decision for the OP.

I have to agree wholeheartedly that there is no worse fate for a horse then neglect, abuse or starvation. None. It may tug at our heart strings to think of the decision the OP has to make, but if it saves that foal a life of any of the above, bravo to the decision.

My heart goes out to you. I tried to send a PT to you, but cannot. Just thinking about you, and your decision and hoping that its just a false big bag...one can hope.... (look at my line...Queen of the Ifs...its for a reason!)

[perpetual_novice]

I have been overwhelmed this week with pleas from people to buy for next to nothing, or just take, their horses. Given the status of slaughter right now, the droughts and floods, this is only going to get worse.

I am hearing the same thing from other people.

In another time I might have said to give it a chance. Today I think I am going to say, euthanize it. A hard and horrible decision to make but probably the best thing overall.

The world is a tough place right now. Ouch.

Sorry for you dilemma...

BUT (flame suit on)

Better a quick and painless passing than to end up on a feed lot. I think you're being responsible, not heartless.

I agree with these posters and others who have posted in the same advice. I had a registered QH mare who I bought pregnant. Though she was from decent racing lines, she had been bred to a very nondescript, though registered, QH stallion. I had planned to keep her filly but because I had an injury, I couldn't bring on a youngster. I can't imagine trying to find a home for such a "Heinz 57" type foal as the OP's foal will be. Even trying to sell a registered, half decent and healthy QH filly was a nightmare. I found her a good home and have to trust that they will keep in touch with me if they can't keep her.


so all you people that think she should euthanize this baby. If your daughter accidently got pregnant, would you kill the baby when it was born? No! You would keep him/her or you would adopt him/her. Period. If you have enough money to care for a horse, you have enough money to handle this foal responsibly. You should have been a little more aware of who your horse was being turned out with.

If my daughter accidentally became pregnant, it is highly unlikely the baby would end up in a feed lot. The situation is not analogous at all.

For those who suggest that it will be hard on the OP's filly when she loses the foal, this may or may not be true. We all probably know maiden mares who haven't had a clue what to do with a baby. However even if the filly does suffer some emotional trauma, think of the physical wear and tear on such a young, growing horse who is nursing a baby as well. Sadly, I think the OP's choice is the wisest.

[citydog]

Would any of you looking for a horse answer an ad for a WB/TWH/QH weanling?

From a marketing perspective one would probably have better luck just saying WBx.

Really, given what the dam is, this could be a nice little foal. Certainly it's got a better chance of that than if it were fugly x fugly.

[Rodeio]

You may have trouble euthanizing the foal by a vet. Our vets here will not euthanize a healthy animal. I have a friend with an OTTB mare in her thirties who has been going down hill all summer. This horse was used as a barrel horse by my friend when she was in high school and college and carted around both her children in 4-H for many years. This mare has had and still gets great care. Now my friend wants to do the kindest thing she can for the old gal and that is put her down before the hardship of winter comes and she can be buried on the farm. She has talked to six different vets and none of them will put her down because she is not bad enough yet. That is just it, my friend sees the light at the end of the mares tunnel and doesn't want it to get bad before the mare goes.

I have had mares lose their foals at birth or during birth or even within a few days. Sometimes the mare seems to grieve but honestly it is like they get it and once they return to the herd they whinny once or twice and go on with life. One cannot compare an animals emotions to a humans. I would be more worried about the nutritional imbalances this mare had because if the OP knew she was in foal she should have been getting fed a different diet.

This year I had a mare die with a three week old filly. She was bucket raised with no complications. It cost me nearly $1000 in goats milk to get the filly to four months when she could come off of milk. I know I could have switched to milk replacer but she was doing so well on the goats milk and the goat dairy is just a few miles from me I stayed on it. She is a strong, healthy and robust filly at a week shy of six months.

My advice if you are able to euth the foal, do it right away at delivery and move on with life.

[TB or not TB?]

This cracks me up.. we're definitely reading too much FHOTD!!

If crappy breeding leads to this much conformational devastation.. where are all the 2 year old horses crawling around on their elbows?? I just don't see it.

Ahh FHOTD... my hero. Also, the reason you don't see it? How many BYBs do you hang out with? How many low rate auctions do you attend? How many double deckers do you inspect? That's where these horses are. That or pushing up daisies. :no:

[Gayla]

I am NOT a Pro-life freak! :lol::lol::lol: That is actually funny. But all this crap about it is better to kill a foal than let it RISK another bad ending is nothing but total BS. Come on! Any living thing on the planet would prefer a chance to stay alive! If you decide to kill that foal you need to admit it is because you just don't want to fool with it, not that you are doing it a favor. Of all the ridiculous ideas I have ever endured on this BB this new "wave" of wisdom is one of the worst.

[Ember]

"Ok, but I'll go to the mattresses against you on the RESPONSIBLE OWNERSHIP thing.

Yeah, I effed up not checking her in December. But don't you know the first thing that went through my head when I saw fullness around her udder was "OH MY GOSH I AM SUCH AN IDIOT, WHY didn't I check her last year???" But that is the past. I messed up, and I said it again and again. It's not like I spent the past 11 months KNOWING she was pregnant. And if you saw her right now, I bet you wouldn't think she is pregnant either aside from having more a little more of a bag than a non-pregnant 2 year old should have.

I don't see how this means I am now responsible for this potential foal for the rest of it's life. People dump horses all the time. I AM NOT ONE OF THOSE PEOPLE."

This really pisses me off! For goodness sake, look at your own statements! In one sentence you say you screwed up, and then you say but why should I be responsible for my mistake. That's life. Make a mistake, take responsibility for it. As said by another poster this is exactly what FHOTD is getting at. You ARE a irresponsible breeder! You became one the moment you chose not to persue this.

I agree that there are too many horses. Because of people like you who are too lazy, cheap, stupid, whatever... The victim attitude disgusts me. You aren't responsible for all the horses out there that are neglected or going to slaughter but you are responsible for this foal. Suck it up and find it a good home. If you need to, get off your butt and take the colt's owner to small claims court for the expenses. Don't cry poor when you have recourse. UUgg. Your last post makes me want to bang my head against the desk.

[TB or not TB?]

Awwh Ember it's so kind of you to pony up and offer to take the foal. COTHers are so lovely!

[hastyreply]

I'm still wondering why the OP even posted this. If she doesn't want the foal, do whatever she wants when it's born. Why try to justify what your going to do with a bunch of people on a forum. I too, doubt a vet will put it down but then maybe there are some vets who probably would, but I doubt they'd be doing "foal check" calls. It doesn't take a vet to do the deed. At this late stage I doubt it'll hurt her mare. It probably wouldn't hurt the mare to nurse the foal for a couple of months then wean it and give it to someone who wants it. I've never had a foal that had it's IGE checked or a vet come out and go over it when it was born. Not that many horses do. So that expense is only if you want to. In the grand scheme of things this is probably not what will keep your mare from becoming the The Next Best Brightest Star in the equine world.

Stuff happens, sometimes it's the unexpected and unintended that makes life interesting.

Your a stonger person than me if you can look at a bright newborn foal and put it down. Even the homely ones tug on my heartstrings

[FancyFree]

I am NOT a Pro-life freak! :lol::lol::lol: That is actually funny. But all this crap about it is better to kill a foal than let it RISK another bad ending is nothing but total BS. Come on! Any living thing on the planet would prefer a chance to stay alive! If you decide to kill that foal you need to admit it is because you just don't want to fool with it, not that you are doing it a favor. Of all the ridiculous ideas I have ever endured on this BB this new "wave" of wisdom is one of the worst.

Very true.

How easy is it to find a vet that would euthanise the foal anyway? I know my vet would not do it. I would suck up my mistake, let it live and find it a home.

[gazenna]

Gayla, I agree with you. I cant for the life of me understand how one can just up and kill a foal at birth for no good reason. Some call this euthanasia, I call this selfish killing. I have got a couple of horses here that I am pretty sure that the people here who support this idea the poster has would not want, one is a wonderful horse just not pretty by most standards, she is pretty to me though, and the other is just a grade plain jane so to speak, nothing spectacular but he is a sweety as well, These horses have a forever home here no matter what. I just find it kinda sad that one can make a decison like this so far in advance. I would not want to be this posters horse if I was one, and as far as a vet that is willing to kill a healthy foal I would have to question that vets integrity. I know my vet would never ever do that.

[RiddleMeThis]

Yes everyone has their fugly at home. They love it for who it is blah blah blah. How many people do you know who would WANT this foal BEFORE it does ANYTHING? Of course someone may want it if it gets trail broke or something. But she has already said she can't support it till then. How many posts are on this board alone about how hard it is to sell a well bred foal? How much harder do you think it is going to be to sell a possible ugly foal to a nice home when there are hundreds and hundreds of broke horses going for nothing?
I am going to go with J. Swan on this one
Well now isn't that fine and dandy. We're not allowed to put an unwanted horse down, we're not allowed to send it to slaughter, we can't keep it, and we don't want to foist our responsibility off on others.
Now exactly what the hell is an owner supposed to freakin' do? If the owner's decision is to divest ownership, and they have no options - is your little vet going to be there to put the animal down when it's found starved in a dry lot somewhere? Are you going to be there to pay the vet bills? Help find the animal a decent home?

[RedMare01]

Even though it's a horrible situation, there is nothing wrong with wanting to do the best for the foal, even if it means euthanizing. Kudos to the OP for making a tough decision. Sometimes responsibility sucks.

Jingling that she won't be pregnant.

Caitlin

[I'm EBO]

Folks, $hit happens. We all have chapters in our lives that we'd like to erase.

My offer is still open to take the foal; I'll bet everyone else who offered is still willing, as well. The foal can have a happy ending, if there actually IS a foal. No need to beat the OP over the head for unforseen consequences.

[Wanderluster]

Buddy's pretty happy that he was born in the Mexican Arroyo right about now. ;)

[Dalfan]

I am NOT a Pro-life freak! That is actually funny. But all this crap about it is better to kill a foal than let it RISK another bad ending is nothing but total BS. Come on! Any living thing on the planet would prefer a chance to stay alive! If you decide to kill that foal you need to admit it is because you just don't want to fool with it, not that you are doing it a favor. Of all the ridiculous ideas I have ever endured on this BB this new "wave" of wisdom is one of the worst.

Very true here.

One has to have some justification for comtemplating such an act. And stop calling it a mutt. Any crossbred (including the vaulted WB/cross) is a mutt.

[Wanderluster]

Seriously though- why not figure out how many $$$ in prospective bills you will accrue allowing this mare to foal out and wean the baby.

If you can find someone to pony up excuse the euphemism why not. Mares are frequently started at 2/3 bred and brought back to train. Some school's of thought believe it to make the mare mature.

Anyone interested enough to write the check has plenty of incentive to give this horse a great life.

[Daydream Believer]

My offer is still open to take the foal; I'll bet everyone else who offered is still willing, as well. The foal can have a happy ending, if there actually IS a foal. No need to beat the OP over the head for unforseen consequences.

My offer still stands as well. I see the foal as a young horse with potential to be a nice horse for someone...an not a genetic mutated frankenstein. It might end up being very nice...and it might not...but you'll never know if you don't give it a chance.

[pony4me]

If it's any consolation, one of the best dressage and jumping horses I've ever seen belonged to a friend of mine. She had an accidental dose of TWH and QH. She was gorgeous, and stayed sound well into her 20's.

[Luckydonkey]

My offer still stands as well- If she is in Oregon, I will gladly offer it a home. It can start out with my bottle calves, and then hang out with my craigslist rescue whom I posted about a couple weeks ago- he is doing wonderful too, btw....

[mephistopheles]

The people who would most likely inquire about this foal, unfortunately, are going to be the less-than-horse-savvy types, who think it would be fun to buy a baby for the kids.


There are, in this world, people with soft hearts. We are not all tobacco- spitting hicks with 17 children and 345 chickens running rampant through the front yard ;).

[BabyGoose]

I am NOT a Pro-life freak! :lol::lol::lol: That is actually funny. But all this crap about it is better to kill a foal than let it RISK another bad ending is nothing but total BS. Come on! Any living thing on the planet would prefer a chance to stay alive! If you decide to kill that foal you need to admit it is because you just don't want to fool with it, not that you are doing it a favor. Of all the ridiculous ideas I have ever endured on this BB this new "wave" of wisdom is one of the worst.

Thanks for putting that better than I could. I couldn't agree more.

[tullio]

I agreed with EqTrainer, pages and pages ago. OP, I think you have a pretty good handle on the reality of this situation. A bad thing happened, some unfortunate decisions were made (and please, posters who have never made a bad decision, go ahead and raise your hands...) and now you are in a tough situation. That's life, and it isn't always easy, but you seem completely aware of that.

Coming on the board to get this out in the open and to be able to discuss the options with others was both a good and bad idea... surely that's obvious at this point. Some people can't discuss the price of eggs without insults and name calling, and it's unfortunate that they think that ridiculing you will bring you over to the light and fluffy side, where there's a loving, safe, healthy home for every horse. There just isn't, and your potential foal doesn't have good odds in the lottery to start with. What you choose to do with that information is your business, and your business alone. Only you know every nuance of your situation and this story, and only you have to live with the outcome. I think the decision you've come to (what, 2 or 3 pages back?) is a good one, and hopefully it lets you sleep at night. Remember, that which does not kill you makes you stronger.

In closing, because I am tired, and appalled by certain statements on this board, and I just CAN'T not say it.... I think it is very interesting (amusing... intriguing... hysterical... whatever) that every few months we have a "OMG, guess what horrible thing I just witnessed at a 4-H show" thread, and yet when there's a foal to be given away, several people mention finding a 4-H family to take it. Finally, a thread where I can put down my cape and sword and not have to defend 4-H. Oh, the irony....:lol:

[Wanderluster]

I did not say "take the foal". I repeat for reading comprehension - if you want this little god/knows what then offer to pay the expenses. There are reputable places that make a living breeding and foaling out mares. These can be costly. I assume that the offers here are to cover all expenses that the mare and foal incur until the foal is weaned at approximately 4 months. Then the owner of the foal can pay to transport it or continue paying board on a weaned foal. This should be a standard contract. :confused:

[spookhorse]

The people who would most likely inquire about this foal, unfortunately, are going to be the less-than-horse-savvy types, who think it would be fun to buy a baby for the kids.



Are you kidding me??? How can you make such a blanket statement like that???

Believe it or not there are tons of perfectly wonderful people out there who don't mind a horse who's not registered, might be conformed a little off from what is considered "perfect, or came from an inauspicious start. Not everyone who is capable of loving and caring for a horse in a proper manner is a dressage queen or hunter princess, ya know! Oh heck, I could never fool anyone that I am one of of those fancy types and yet my rescued (and probably fugly by your standards though they get plenty of compliments elsewhere) beasties don't seem to mind!

[enjoytheride]

And the person that takes this foal needs to guarantee it a permanent home for the next 30 or so years. That's a long time to prevent a horse from falling into a bad home.

So if the person that takes the foal eventually sells it and it eventually winds up at an auction, who is at fault? Who is the evil person there?

[Mosey_2003]

I don't envy the OP's situation or impending decision and I'll admit I skipped ahead after page 5, but I just had to add... Isn't it funny when someone posts wondering about breeding their mare how the majority of the responses are that foals costs thousands of dollars to raise and will cost you thousands and thousands more later, but when someone wants to prevent the foal they miraculously cost next-to-nothing? :confused: I don't know that I'd be able to have it euthanized myself as I'm far too soft, but I'm also one that believes in euthanizing horses that are suffering. We just can't save them all. Hopefully someone can take the poor babe.

[Leisa]

My first horse was a little bit of everything, but he was a saint and put up with my wreckless ways and lack of knowledge. He was green, but far from stupid.

Out of my three current horses, two are registered paints and one is a TWH/Arab cross. The paint mare was a rescue that I purchased in foal and had her shipped to me. The stud she was bred to was a first class fugly and I keep thinking that maybe she'd gone out with the girls one night and had too much wine with dinner.... she's far too much of a lady to have NOT been drunk when it happened. Her filly is just like her. Very pretty, very level headed and not at all marked or shaped like her sire.

My TWH/Arab can be a knothead and a total head-flinging Arab, but he can also be a total doll. He has a special relationship with my daughter and as a yearling he would "race" with her along the fenceline, taking care to keep pace with her little two year old legs. Sometimes he even let her win. Seven years later and he still takes special care of my daughter. There were times when he had full run of 40 acres and she was the only one he would come to the fence for. He's not papered (his sire was, tho) and was the product of a stallion jumping a fence. An accident if you will.

You can't ride papers and I would take temperament over bloodlines any day and so would many of those I know. But then again, we are all just casual trailriders who hack around enjoying nature and our horses; none of us compete in English disciplines. The occassional cattle round-up, team penning and other "cowboy" stuff, yes, but nothing requiring a horse costing more than our cars. In fact, I don't think any of us paid more than $1,000 for our horses.

I guess what I'm trying to say is I don't understand the snobbery here about a "mutt" foal that may or may not even be. SOMEBODY would want it, and SOMEBODY would love it. If she's indeed in foal, it was an accident, get over it. And add me to the list of those who would take it after weaning. My friends and I aren't afraid to be caught riding a "mutt".

Temperament over bloodlines.

[Czar]

Honestly, if you were talking about abortion, I would support - your body, your choice. But you're not. You're talking about killing a new born foal - carried by a being other than you. The thought of this is staggeringly repugnant!

I'm not sorry you are faced with this. These are the types of life events that shape/build depth and character. By making this easy on yourself, and destroying this new born - especially for the reasons you stated - you take the coward's way out and this decision will haunt you for the rest of your life.

The fact that you're struggling with this decision is a good thing. It says you have a moral voice questioning the "rightness" of this decision. Are you a Monster? No, but you are at a crossroads. If you make the decision to kill this newborn foal, you will never forget, and - in the middle of the night, many months, years, decades down the line - you will remember this choice. It will eat at you like a cancer and every day you'll need to figure out how to forgive yourself.

You will be creating long term suffering for yourself by taking this way out.

:confused: This is beyond me....kill a human child but don't euthanize an unwanted, poorly conformed foal?????

It's an animal for pity's sake - does it mean anything to you that a mare will shortly go back to happily being one of the herd after losing a foal but a human being can never forget? Animals do not experience memory like humans do.

Furthermore, I am appalled at the individuals who are suggesting keeping a single unwanted foal that could be humanely euthanized alive when there are thousands of unwanted and uncared for horses at auctions and rescues. I'm sure we all have stories of how some rejected horse went on to do this or that but the truth of the matter is, for every wonderful story, there are hundreds of neglect cases.

[Tiligsmom]

Your a stonger person than me if you can look at a bright newborn foal and put it down. Even the homely ones tug on my heartstrings

Stronger? No.

Lazy, irresponsible. Yes.

I can't imagine killing a bright newborn foal either. I've been present for several foal births and the thought of it - no matter how sanititized (euthanized) she paints the picture - is inconceivable.

[Kristen]

You know what? If it were me, I'd probably take the unpopular route and euthanize it. I know it makes me sound like some horrible, heartless monster, but I do feel that it would be for the best.

For those who are saying that shes a DQ snob because she's being discrimitory toward the breeding - um hello, it's GOOD that she's not jumping for joy over her horse producing something that (more likely than not) will be less attractive than an alpaca. Sorry, I know thats harsh, but the fact is -the LAST thing the world needs is yet ANOTHER grade quality horse. PERIOD. If youre going to breed, itd better be a QUALITY mare to a QUALITY stallion. You aren't doing anyone, including the horses, any favors by breeding crap. There is already an overabundance of crap available to anyone with a couple of dollar bills in their pockets, including the kill buyers. It WOULD be a totally different story if the stallion had been a good, quality WB (or TB/QH/any breed that there is actually a market for). This does not mean the OP is some monster. It means that she is intelligent enough to know that this sort of cross is not going to be a hot commodity because it is likely to be terribly put together and therefore is not likely to hold up to real work, and THEREFORE is likely to end up being shipped off across the border, where it will die a far more torturous death than if it had been quietly put to sleep. This is the reality for thousands of grade horses. This is why, if it were me, I would not want to add to the problem. Not to mention that she said she does not have the set up or the finances to support this baby right now. Good for her for being realistic and realizing when she can't take on another one. It may just be a baby, but it's still a horse, and it'll still cost money. Whoever said that if she euthanizes the foal, she could go to the auction and save one down the road when she has the means to do so - I think that is a wonderful idea. I also think that for everyone who says they want this foal - why not do the same? I guarantee there are many many babies just like this one in your area who need a good home.

I will say that the people offering to take in this baby are great. That really is a generous offer on your part and one that I am sure will be taken up on. However, I have to ask, are you willing to provide a lifelong home? (If you are, then that's a good answer for the OP.) If the foal turns out somewhat nice and grows into a well mannered horse, it's not such an issue, but if it doesn't, what will happen when it is sold and then resold? It would have a good chance of going to someone less than desireable.

Ok, that was long and I'm sick so I apologize if that makes no sense. I guess I'm just saying that there are way too many unwanted horses out there already and I don't see a reason to contribute to the problem. Honestly, what is the difference between euthanizing a foal like this and all of the (equally adorable and have an equal chance of being your best friend) puppies and kittens that are put to sleep every day because there simply are too many of them and not enough good homes?

[Paragon]

In moral support of this poster, let's all put our money where our mouths are, cart out our mares, and when we're least able to afford a new addition, breed them to the ugliest mutt POS stallions we can find. I understand Fugly Horse Of the Day does marvellous advertising.

With the horse shortage in America, it's our duty. Who else is going to pay for Social Security when we're older?

[Czar]

I am NOT a Pro-life freak! :lol::lol::lol: That is actually funny. But all this crap about it is better to kill a foal than let it RISK another bad ending is nothing but total BS. Come on! Any living thing on the planet would prefer a chance to stay alive! If you decide to kill that foal you need to admit it is because you just don't want to fool with it, not that you are doing it a favor. Of all the ridiculous ideas I have ever endured on this BB this new "wave" of wisdom is one of the worst.

Tell that to the 2 yo filly that has a halter growing into her face.

If you can't guarantee quality of life...what's the point?

Maybe the foal will end up at a nice home with people that love and care for him or maybe he'll end up starving to death in some idiot's backyard. Why take the chance?

[Paragon]

Any living thing on the planet would prefer a chance to stay alive!

I'm sorry, for a minute there I thought you were ascribing an animal with some sort of rational desire concerning its fate and longevity. Goodness, what a mess we'd all be in if our beasts of burden - not to mention food products - truly had such thoughts, and if we had proof of them.

You may not be a pro-life freak - thank heavens for that - but you certainly come off as a fanatic of a different stripe. We can be realistic about providing the best we can for our animals' comfort while still understanding that they are indeed animals, with capacities far different from our own.

[catknsn]

I agree with Czar.

[Czar]

I'm sorry, for a minute there I thought you were ascribing an animal with some sort of rational desire concerning its fate and longevity. Goodness, what a mess we'd all be in if our beasts of burden - not to mention food products - truly had such thoughts, and if we had proof of them.

You may not be a pro-life freak - thank heavens for that - but you certainly come off as a fanatic of a different stripe. We can be realistic about providing the best we can for our animals' comfort while still understanding that they are indeed animals, with capacities far different from our own.

Bravo! :yes:

[Kristen]

oh and also - I have nothing against ugly horses in and of themselves. It has nothing to do with bloodlines and snobbery and everything to do with health, soundness, and enough good homes to go around.

[eventamy]

I completely support the OP and her decision, whatever it is. She is the owner, ultimately it is her decision. I for one believe that she is being completely responsible by considering euthanasia as an option, IMHO not enough people do.
I feel for the foal, I feel for the mare and I feel for the OP. But do I want this foal. No. It could be the cutest thing EVER when it is born, most foals are, but that doesn't mean I want it.
I've given away a dangerous horse, who was very close to being euthanized (my choice), I've taken in more then my share of free horses, and now have 2 geldings who served their former families VERY well, one is fully retired and the other giving me a run for my money, but they have homes with me. When they can no longer be taken care of by me they will be euthanized, I will not risk them ending up in bad places or at an auction.
I absolutely understand the financial constraints another horse could add as well.
I also feel that JSwan is right in her posts about veterinarians who won't euthanize when it is the owners choice. Shame on them, what is an owner to do that. That's when that well placed bullet comes in handy I guess.

[Roisin]

I don't envy the OP's situation or impending decision and I'll admit I skipped ahead after page 5, but I just had to add... Isn't it funny when someone posts wondering about breeding their mare how the majority of the responses are that foals costs thousands of dollars to raise and will cost you thousands and thousands more later, but when someone wants to prevent the foal they miraculously cost next-to-nothing? :confused: I don't know that I'd be able to have it euthanized myself as I'm far too soft, but I'm also one that believes in euthanizing horses that are suffering. We just can't save them all. Hopefully someone can take the poor babe.

Can't put it any better than this.
Fingers and toes crossed that it is a false pregnancy. If not, you'll figure it out. You sound pretty level-headed to me.

[Astraled]

Why take the chance?

Awesome. I'll just put all my horses down now because they might suffer in the future. That's a really good plan. Better twenty years too early than a moment too late, right? :dead:

[BabyGoose]

I completely support the OP and her decision, whatever it is. She is the owner, ultimately it is her decision. I for one believe that she is being completely responsible by considering euthanasia as an option, IMHO not enough people do.
I feel for the foal, I feel for the mare and I feel for the OP. But do I want this foal. No. It could be the cutest thing EVER when it is born, most foals are, but that doesn't mean I want it.
I've given away a dangerous horse, who was very close to being euthanized (my choice), I've taken in more then my share of free horses, and now have 2 geldings who served their former families VERY well, one is fully retired and the other giving me a run for my money, but they have homes with me. When they can no longer be taken care of by me they will be euthanized, I will not risk them ending up in bad places or at an auction.
I absolutely understand the financial constraints another horse could add as well.
I also feel that JSwan is right in her posts about veterinarians who won't euthanize when it is the owners choice. Shame on them, what is an owner to do that. That's when that well placed bullet comes in handy I guess.

So you gave away the dangerous horse to who knows what fate. He probably ended up in a bad place or an auction house. Euthanizing an older dangerous, but otherwise healthy horse makes more sense than euthanizing a foal that might have a lot of potential.

If the OP cannot find a vet to kill the foal, I wonder if she will be able to put a bullet in its head rather than risk it ending up in a bad place. I guess if she truely believes that she is doing the right thing than I guess so.

[Paragon]

Awesome. I'll just put all my horses down now because they might suffer in the future. That's a really good plan. Better twenty years too early than a moment too late, right? :dead:

You could always consider the context of the comment, having to do with an unexpected mixed breed foal of questionable parentage and an owner who acknowledges they cannot afford it, rather than trying to make it something it wasn't by pointing it at your own horses, who are - I am assuming - beloved, afforded, and not for sale.

What do I know? Maybe the poster really was talking about killing all the horses in an intense fit of misguided concern. But I doubt it.

[TB or not TB?]

I'll just put all my horses down now

Ah, quotes when taken out of context. :lol:

[gazenna]

CZAR.... This could be foal is just unlucky enough to be unwanted by 1 person, It's not like him/her has been bounced around home to home to home. I am sitting here thinking about the show on animal planet called animal miracles. The segments where stray dogs just happen to wander up to peoples houses and the people find out in the end that those dogs were the best thing that ever happened to them. Well this little foal if its lucky enough to be born and then lucky enough to be allowed to live then at least it has a chance of belonging to someone who can love and care for it. If this foal is selfishly killed it has no chance. I will be 100% honest here I find this whole discussion somewhat disturbing , Some of the people talk as though killing this foal is no big deal, when in reality it is a big deal,it shows me that there are some people who truly dont care. Another thing CZAR Animals do mourn when they lose their babies, just not like us........

[sid]

It all comes down to what is the ethically correct thing to do...regardless of financial imposition.

This points to the responsibility of owner needing to learn more about horses and their housing/environment. If you knew the filly was in with a yearling colt, it was your responsibility to get the filly separated...don't blame the "stupid" farm owners.

The filly is yours and you are responsible for her "condition". Ownership comes with a price.

[Paragon]

I will be 100% honest here I find this whole discussion somewhat disturbing , Some of the people talk as though killing this foal is no big deal, when in reality it is a big deal,it shows me that there are some people who truly dont care.

Did you not know this before you came onto this thread? My god, look around you. You don't even have to leave the horse world to see it. We have babies racing their bones to the breaking point, little more than moneymakers. We have abuses being committed in sight of judges and stewards, in our barns and at our shows. We have animals being bred and thrown away every second of every day, despite the incredible smack-you-in-the-face-it's-so-damnably-obvious fact of overpopulation, some people because they don't care, some people because they think they're going to come up with the next big thing. It is an industry, and bless it anyhow, because if it weren't one, none of us would have horses at all.

Of course it's a disturbing topic. It's something we don't like to think about, that there really AREN'T enough homes (egad, how can this be true?) and that every little baby born ISN'T perfection on four beautiful hooves. It's an awful topic, and nobody in their right mind enjoys it. But it's real, and it's smacking us all in the face. Has been for a long time. We just don't talk about it without alters starting the threads for us, lest we all climb up onto the bench and start pounding our little gavels in the direction of the original poster.

Animals have changed my life. I would be lost without them. I own them, I am paid to work with them, I am not paid to work with them (what with my volunteer job on the side). I am grateful for them every moment of my life. But I live in a world where humane euthanasia is NOT the worst thing that could happen to an animal, and I won't pretend it is.

[Kristen]

CZAR Some of the people talk as though killing this foal is no big deal, when in reality it is a big deal,it shows me that there are some people who truly dont care. Another thing CZAR Animals do mourn when they lose their babies, just not like us........


1) What about the THOUSANDS of foals JUST LIKE THIS ONE who are starved or abused or sent to slaughter because no one wanted them? Is it really fair to keep contributing to the problem?
2) People DO care. They just have different viewpoints on what is "best". To me it seems to be basically split into two groups: Some look at what is best for this particular foal, while some look at the group of neglected and unwanted horses as a whole. Just because someone has the opinion that it would be better to euthanize the foal than keep it alive does not mean they don't care.
3) No, not just like us. If a mother loses a child, she would cry and go over it and over it in her mind, wondering why her child, what she did wrong, and hope that there is in fact a heaven and that her child is happy there. Such a tragedy affects her for the rest of her life. A mare would be over it in a few days. Yes, it may take some longer than others, but it's not changing the rest of her life like it would for humans.

[catknsn]

Face it, the only reason anybody is stepping up here to give this potential foal a home is because it's a baby. If someone put a three, or ten, or twenty year old walker cross in the giveaways section here, you'd hear crickets chirping on the thread.

[Astraled]

Ah, quotes when taken out of context. :lol:

Excuse me, but it's not out of context. Haven't we all learned from the slaughter threads that no horse is safe, no matter how well trained or how well bred?

If one is aiming to prevent uncertainty, that person should just kill all her horses now.

I think the horses who are abused or slaughtered are greatly outnumbered by the ones who are not, so my horses and I will take our chances.:cool:

If someone put a three, or ten, or twenty year old walker cross in the giveaways section here,

No, no, Warmblood cross :lol:. It's all in the spin.

[Foxtrot's]

Mares do miss their foals, horses miss their friends, yet we yank them away from each other with narey a care. It is what we do when we move, sell, buy, horses.

[matryoshka]

Face it, the only reason anybody is stepping up here to give this potential foal a home is because it's a baby. If someone put a three, or ten, or twenty year old walker cross in the giveaways section here, you'd hear crickets chirping on the thread.This is why this foal has a better chance than other unwanted horses out there. Nobody has had a chance to mess it up yet. When one goes to an auction, one never knows what kind of problem the horse has. It could be dangerous, or abusive to other horses, or have a hidden medical condition that costs $$$$$. For all that it costs more in the long run to raise a foal, aside from its conformation, one knows that it doesn't have issues from previous abuse.

This is not an easy question for anybody. Oviously, the OP thinks euth at birth IS a responsible thing to do. It's not the choice I would make, but the OP believes it is reasonable, as do many others who post here.

Can we stop calling each other names now? The OP intends for this foal not to suffer, whether she finds another home for it or euths it. At this point in my life, I'd opt for giving the baby a chance. I'm also not saying it should be "dumped" on a rescue. I'm suggesting that a rescue might have some resources for finding the foal a good home, possibly early. A baby can be weaned at 3 months, about the time vaccinations start.

[sid]

My first horse was at QH/TW cross that was a "mistake". I owned her, rode her, loved her until she died last year at the ripe old age of 31. She taught me "all things" about horses.

She was the love of my life and I miss her every day, despite the 19 other horses I have. She might have fallen through the cracks had I not purchased her (for a whopping $700!). Was she a beauty..no? She was put on this earth with a right to live and we found each other. No foal should never be given a chance, IMO. The owner just has to work darned hard to find a home for the "mistake" they ALLOWED to happen.

[JoZ]

I don't envy the OP's situation or impending decision and I'll admit I skipped ahead after page 5, but I just had to add... Isn't it funny when someone posts wondering about breeding their mare how the majority of the responses are that foals costs thousands of dollars to raise and will cost you thousands and thousands more later, but when someone wants to prevent the foal they miraculously cost next-to-nothing? :confused: I don't know that I'd be able to have it euthanized myself as I'm far too soft, but I'm also one that believes in euthanizing horses that are suffering. We just can't save them all. Hopefully someone can take the poor babe.

Actually I think it makes a lot of sense. Most of the costs are upfront, and they are costs that the OP will not have. Breeding soundness exams, cultures, stud fees, shipped semen or mare care costs, ultrasounds and so forth. In my experience, once the mare is pregnant and carries to term, the biggest costs of breeding are over.

There are so many shades of grey here. For one thing, I think the OP *did* breed her filly. Just as I bred mine when she got pregnant as a YEARLING. I have to say I bred her because she was mine, I was responsible for her, and I put her in the situation in which she got pregnant. I didn't choose it, but once it happened, everything changed. Just as I believe choosing to breed an undesirable cross or compromised parents is wrong but once it has been done... everything changes. I surely did not feel I had to either euthanize my filly's colt OR guarantee it a life free from harm. I had to do what I would do with any horse: feed him, love him, train him, and give him the best advantages and the best chances of success.