working horses or WORKING HORSES!

[horseyfolks]

I was going through some jpgs that I had gathered while doing research on horse drawn vehicles. I came across this photo which immediately reminded me of Lost Farmer. He is probably the only person I have ever talked with who works his ponies in this kind of weather......

http://www.floridafatboy.com/forecart/fc005.jpg

I can feel the cold just looking at the picture :yes::yes:!

Don

[Happy Feet]

Holy Moly! I would have to say I'd rather have 95 degree weather over that!!! I know horses do better in cold than heat, but I sure don't!

[horseyfolks]

Going through these old photos I have, I've found unbelievable photos of what horses were expected to do..... makes me think twice when I hear someone wondering if a 2 or 3 hundred pound carriage will be overworking their horse..... Now I think I know why it is said that horses years ago had a much shorter life span than they do now.....

http://www.floridafatboy.com/work/w001.jpg

http://www.floridafatboy.com/work/w002.jpg

http://www.floridafatboy.com/work/w003.jpg

http://www.floridafatboy.com/work/w004.jpg

http://www.floridafatboy.com/work/w005.jpg

http://www.floridafatboy.com/work/w006.jpg

http://www.floridafatboy.com/work/w007.jpg

http://www.floridafatboy.com/work/w008.jpg

http://www.floridafatboy.com/work/w009.jpg

http://www.floridafatboy.com/work/w010.jpg

http://www.floridafatboy.com/work/w011.jpg

Don

[Ashemont]

What I want to know is how they stacked those huge logs without a crane????

[MySparrow]

Sadly, I can't open any but the original picture that you posted, Don, of those Belgians in the driving blizzard. I instantly felt the sharp tingle of old frostbite in my toes!

Interesting topic. We hear the Amish excoriated for working their horses this hard, though they are just the last remnants of the kind of horsepower that built this country.

Tangentially, Bob Giles gave my client Becky and her mini mare Little River a couple of lessons at the National Drive. Little River has always gone well forward for me. But for Becky she has been sluggish and reluctant, and Becky was prepared to say that we were just asking too much of the tiny creature. Then Bob got into the cart! He's not overweight by any means, but he's not a small man, either, and Little River danced around the cones and obstacles with him onboard as though he weighed nothing at all.

Horses aren't so different from people, are they? For the right leader we'll all fling ourselves into almost any endeavor with a willing heart and all our strength.

[horseyfolks]

They used a chain hoist (like a block and tackle but with chain instead of rope) on an A frame and used other horses to pull and lift the logs up....

Here is a photo of how they moved the logs....

http://www.floridafatboy.com/work/load001.jpg

This is a picture of the actual loading crew (including their horses) at the Joe Holl Logging Company. Don't know where or when but I know who :D:yes:!

http://www.floridafatboy.com/work/load002.jpg

Don

[justslide]

I would guess they used skids of some sort to load the logs?

Awesome pictures! Amazing what they accomplished then without modern machinery.

Pam

[Ashemont]

I've seen horses snake big logs out of the woods up in NH and Maine - several loggers still used horses 30 years ago. It was beautiful to watch those horses work. They could go in and thin trees, doing little damage to other vegetation, unlike commercial operations so often employed. It was almost like watching some intricate dance :)

[MySparrow]

It's the first driving I did, helping my Mennonite cousins bring in the hay. Of course, I didn't drive, but they let me hold the reins sometimes -- they seemed so heavy! -- and though I couldn't lift the trace chains or collars, they let me try.

As a teenager we sugared in the February woods in Ohio, using a draft team and a sledge. Cold. Sweet memory. I can still smell the air, perfumed with the steam off the horses' backs.

[RidesAHaflinger]

Dale, I watched Bob this past weekend drive a mini through cones and that mini likewise danced his way through as though he had wings. Bob never touched the mini with the whip. The little horse simply sensed the forward energy and at the same time he knew that Bob's hands would allow that energy. It was neat. So many times we're guilty of asking for forward and then not truly allowing it with our hands and body. Gotta be :confused: to the horse!

I used to dither constantly over whether or not I was overfacing Major and/or Mickey. Yes, Major and Mickey :D and you know how hefty they are! I used to be a real weenie with them. All it takes is 5 minutes of watching them work for Bob and you KNOW the horse has been feeding you a line as to what he can/cannot do. :winkgrin: Mine are capable of a lot but it didn't take them long to figure out how to play on Mom's sympathy. I'm hardening my heart a bit and getting a lot more out of them. :yes:

Karen



Tangentially, Bob Giles gave my client Becky and her mini mare Little River a couple of lessons at the National Drive. Little River has always gone well forward for me. But for Becky she has been sluggish and reluctant, and Becky was prepared to say that we were just asking too much of the tiny creature. Then Bob got into the cart! He's not overweight by any means, but he's not a small man, either, and Little River danced around the cones and obstacles with him onboard as though he weighed nothing at all.

[horseyfolks]

logging with horses is not a lost art. As Pat has already said on smaller plots and woodlots the horses re a lot more gentile than mechanical equipment. The horse teams are also better able to choose which individual trees need to be harvested for the better of the lot.

Here are some photos of modern logging with horses....

http://www.floridafatboy.com/forecart/sc003.jpg

http://www.floridafatboy.com/forecart/sc005.jpg

http://www.floridafatboy.com/forecart/sc006.jpg

http://www.floridafatboy.com/forecart/sc007.jpg

http://www.floridafatboy.com/forecart/sc008.jpg

http://www.floridafatboy.com/forecart/sc009.jpg

[Happy Feet]

Wow those are great pictures!

[Thomas_1]

Over here there's a resurgence in horses being used to drag timber in forrestry operations. I've a couple of friends who so do and in the past 10 years I've helped out quite a few folks who do that.(with harnessing horses etc etc)
Its environmentally much better and in areas of special scientific interest or in ancient woodlands where there's rare plants, it does a lot less damage than heavy vehicles.

Here the likes of Suffolk Punch or something with similar short compact build and strength are often used.

[LostFarmer]

When I was knee high to a grass hopper, my father and 3 of his brothers were all poor with young families. They had strong backs so they took a team of grandpa's horses and logged the logs for 4 homes. They used the farmers ingenuity that they were raised with to build a sawmill from parts of several old mills. Within a year they had build 4 homes. Not large and not fancy but 4 homes ranging from 1400 to 1600 square feet. I being about 4 rode one of the work horses during the logging. I still remember holding onto the hames as old lady twitched logs. Lady was one of the rare horses that would self load into the back of a pickup truck. Stick the rope in the window and roll it up. This was with a 2' plywood sideboard on the truck. We never went far or fast this way. She spent over 30 years pulling hay to the cows, logging. She also taught me to ride and was patient when I was learning to tie a pack saddle on. Thanks for the memory jogger.

LF

[PalominoMorgan]

Can't get the pics to open. :(

There are a few folks logging with horses around here as well. I've only seen Belgians being used around here. (They are the most popular draft in this area.)

[olehossgal]

Thanks for the pics, Don; I got a kick out of looking at them--WOW!
Anyone watch 'Dirty Jobs' on the Discovery Channel? Mike did a show on logging with draft mules, and it was REALLY a hoot to see--but it can also be VERY dangerous work! One of these mules especially--a superb strong worker, but boy, you'd better pay attention, because when he went, he WENT! Not a job for the inattentive, for sure!!
(Since stuff like that is repeated frequently, I'm sure anyone who wishes to can 'catch' that episode if they try...)

Margo

[classicsporthorses]

WOW. I am going to show these to my 6 year old 1/2 draft gelding who "complains" that our Meadowbrook cart is "too heavy" for him. To heavy my eye.

We went to Mule days in TN a few years ago and many of the large ones are used for logging on a daily basis down there. They have a pull annually and the winning teams often pull well over 5,000 pounds! It was amazing to watch and these Mules are HUGE.

[llsc]

Those pictures are amazing!!!

I'll have to show this thread to my dad. He is 61 this February and he grew up skidding mine props out of the woods with horses. His family did this for a living until the 1960's when coal mining died off. The only trees they used were Poplar, so it was a very select logging job that could only be done with horses.

[kearleydk]

Don: My grandfather on my father's side was a teamster in VT in the days before trucks and tractors. My father had a few old photos of the big loads of logs on sledges but I don't know what has become of them.

I do remember how they loaded but I can't remember what it was called. They built a crib-work of logs into the side of the hill next to the road. The horses dragged the logs to the end of this ramp-like structure and the loggers rolled the logs up with cant hooks until they dropped off the edge unto the sledge.

While I have no experience horse logging I have used a cant hook quite a bit and it is suprising how big a log a man can roll. Two or three men can roll most anything if it is smooth.

Horse logging is something I'd like to do for a month if somebody needed a helper. I'm pretty darn good with chainsaws too.

Dick

[hitchinmygetalong]

No fair sneaking the team of oxen in there!

http://www.floridafatboy.com/work/w007.jpg

Thanks for the great photos - I find the modern logging pics very interesting. And the historical photos make me go :eek: - I wonder how many horses (and people) died in horrific accidents during that era? Yikes.

[Reynard Ridge]

My husband is a modern logger. Relatively. :lol: Right out of college (which, truthfully was 30 years ago), he logged up in Maine, near the Canadian border. His first year, his only companion was his logging horse. Talk about cold - the temps would routinely drop to -40 to -50F and he went to work every day. :no:

His favorite outdoor activity is still cutting firewood - although as we are city dwellers at the moment, he's not getting to do that at all. Shame, because he really does like it. :lol:

[Gestalt]

:eek: :eek: Great photos, thanks for sharing. :)

I'm printing off a few of the pictures to put in my horses stall. Now he'll know what it really means to WORK for a living. :lol:

Dick, if you ever do get to work with someone in the woods, be sure to share your pics too!

[RiddleMeThis]

Thanks for the pics, Don; I got a kick out of looking at them--WOW!
Anyone watch 'Dirty Jobs' on the Discovery Channel? Mike did a show on logging with draft mules, and it was REALLY a hoot to see--but it can also be VERY dangerous work! One of these mules especially--a superb strong worker, but boy, you'd better pay attention, because when he went, he WENT! Not a job for the inattentive, for sure!!
(Since stuff like that is repeated frequently, I'm sure anyone who wishes to can 'catch' that episode if they try...)

Margo

I watched it and it was the first thing I thought of when I saw what this thread was about. I am glad people are using horses and mules for logging. Because while taking trees is somewhat harmful for the environment we need them and using mules/horses is better for the environment