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Rusty Stirrup
Oct. 14, 2007, 08:18 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4W1xRjUHzGw

Resently there's been some negative comments posted on some videoes shown here (myself included). Can we agree that his horse shows some wonderful work?

TwoArabs
Oct. 14, 2007, 09:19 AM
I don't know. By no stretch of the imagination am I qualified to judge this, but something was not right. Maybe it was the pinned ears, but I found the way this horse was going troubling.

dutchmike
Oct. 14, 2007, 09:35 AM
Golega is a fun fair to go and see or ride in. It is inthe beginning of November in Portugal.

~Freedom~
Oct. 14, 2007, 11:00 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4W1xRjUHzGw

Resently there's been some negative comments posted on some videoes shown here (myself included). Can we agree that his horse shows some wonderful work?



Horse is nice but the balance is lacking. Goes too wide behind.

slc2
Oct. 14, 2007, 12:09 PM
no, i would never agree that this horse is doing 'some wonderful work', i find the request to do so somewhat revolting. i look at it, and feel it is possibly the most incorrect work that has ever been displayed here. it is, however, very typical of these horse fairs, and of much of 'baroque equestrainship' in many, many places.

the most glaring problem and the most fundamental one is that the horse sways from side to side in piaffe and passage; it doesn't actually 'go wide behind' in which the feet are a consistent distance apart, while this is also incorrect, this isn't what this horse does - the distance between the hind feet is constantly changing as he struggles, it actually sways markedly - if it was more severe, it might fall down. the distance between the hind legs as well as the distance to the front feet, is constantly changing as the horse struggles.

the other work, even just trotting around, shows exactly the same problems - tension, loss of balance, inconsistent contact, behind the bit, broken at the neck, tension, lack of proper use of the hind legs and back. the additional problem, of the hind and forefeet not hitting the ground at the same time in piaffe and passage, is the second most obvious indicator of improper training, the swaying being the first. it even occurs on non piaffe and passage work, though is most glaring during P&P.

it is just not so obvious in the other work. this is always the case, without exception, in all horses. the piaffe and passage only magnify problems, they do not in a trained horse spring up independently. they reflect the basic training of the horse, or lack thereof.

these problems are not seen by the other posters, because they believe this to be 'classic equitation', and therefore beyond reproach. anyone who does not agree and adore, will be chided and told they are ignorant of how baroque horses look in their work, and are judging them by irrelevant standards.

if the same rider were at Aachen, and scheduled to compete after Anky, and was announced as a student of Anky's, we would all be treated to in-depth discussions of how obvious it is that this horse was trained in rollkur, and how terribly he has been effected mentally - look at the problems and all the faults that are there. however, videos of horses at spanish and portugese fairs, shown with riders in traditional clothing and tack - these will be unassailable - perfection itself.

In fact, because of the degree of swaying, this is not piaffe/passage, but a circus movement referred to as balance (accent on the final e).

this is very typical of the way these horses are taught piaffe and passage, at a very young age, 3 or 4, without basic contact, rhythm, muscular development in the back and hind quarters, throughness and suppleness being established.

it leads to a very incorrect movement and to the tension and loss of balance one sees here, in which the hind legs creep forward, back and extremely forward again in piaffe, nearly stepping on the forehooves at one point, as the horse struggles to stay on his feet.

this is a source of great mental tension and a horse that is overfaced, undertrained and constantly feeling like it will fall down, cannot relax or be mentally calm or physically supple. a horse with basic training like this can require years of retraining, or may never be correctible.

this is the result of the myth that baroque horses don't need to stretch and be developed gradually and gymnastically like other horses, and that they can piaffe and passage ad nauseum at 3 and 4, and the whole ridiculous concept that they are 'born to do dressage', so it is alright to do this sort of work with them. having tried some horses trained this way i can say that it is one of the most awful feelings in the world to ride a horse this way, once one has experienced how calm, supple and content a properly developed horse can be.

baroque horses are not some alien species of horse that perform perfectly without proper training. they operate by the same basic laws that all horses operate on - the back and hind quarter need to be strengthened, and the training emphasizing basics, not the performance of tricks to impress novice onlookers.

merrygoround
Oct. 14, 2007, 12:23 PM
The horse showed some weakness and imbalance. But at times it's work WAS very nice.

However, two Arabs, those weren't pinned ears but backward listening ears.

Rusty Stirrup
Oct. 14, 2007, 12:30 PM
I knew someone would comment on the wide behind and even some fishtailing but I found that to be a momentary thing and think the horse is working with heart and power typical of a Baroque horse. I don't see the tension or some of the other things mentioned in response. Of course everyone is entitled to there opinion and maybe others will post what they find nice work.

slc2
Oct. 14, 2007, 12:36 PM
what i think you don't understand is that there are few more fundamental faults that the work could possibly show. the 'momentary' quality is merely because the camera angle changes or because the horse is tipping onto his front end momentarily, there are no faults than these, MORE indicative of incorrect training, the non-diagonal-ness of the trot and piaffe and passage is also fundamental and indicative of a training problem.

as for power, the baroque trainers i have worked with emphasize one point more than any other - the baroque breeds do NOT have the power of other types, and that they even more than other breeds, require gradual gymnastic training, especially stretching - basics.

LarkspurCO
Oct. 14, 2007, 12:36 PM
I've sensed the growing sentiment here that unless you have shown at or above the ride under discussion you have no business commenting on it. Shouldn't this apply to both negative AND positive comments? By this logic, if you haven't actually competed in this discipline, you can't possibly know what is bad OR good.

At any rate, I could watch that horse go all day. He looks to be listening intently, not pinning his ears. (Do you have to ride FEI to know about ears?:D) I love the Spanish horses. I once got to ride an Andalusian stallion that knew all the tricks. We just did W-T-C and it was fantastic.

Rusty Stirrup
Oct. 14, 2007, 12:52 PM
Larkspur, I guess you are right so I'll shut up and also enjoy the video.

slc2
Oct. 14, 2007, 12:53 PM
are you suggesting that it's alright for baroque equestrians to perform a piaffe and passage that is this grotesquely incorrect, even according to the criteria put forth by their own masters, competitive standards the world over, and a tradition of hundreds of years?

LarkspurCO
Oct. 14, 2007, 01:00 PM
Larkspur, I guess you are right so I'll shut up and also enjoy the video.

Not so fast -- I think we can find a loophole...

Got any more videos?

Equibrit
Oct. 14, 2007, 01:01 PM
The pinned ears may have had something to do with the riders butt bouncing out of the saddle and slapping the horse in the back every step in the passage, and his constant jabbing with the spurs in the piaff.

TwoArabs
Oct. 14, 2007, 01:06 PM
I went back and watched it again. During the piaffe the ears looked to me to be pinned. If either one of my horses did that I would wonder what I was doing wrong. I also noticed that the hind legs did not track. All in all it was not pleasant to watch. JMHO

dutchmike
Oct. 14, 2007, 01:18 PM
Unbelievable some of the comments here. Most of the riders ,I would say 80% or more actually just go to Golega to show off I mean that is the whole purpose of Golega. Anyway so most of those riders ride maybe 2x a week and few of them actually have lessons to improve themselfs. There is a big difference between competition riders and the horse fair culture. The guy on the horse probably has never competed and never will compete and is just enjoying himself. To mighty know all SLC who sounds like she has 4 gold olympic GP medals in her belt ,just lighten up not everyone rides for competition some people actually ride to enjoy themselfs and if they can do anything resembling passage ,piafe etc good luck to them. I personally find it amazing that lots of these people have been riding for a short time ,are mainly self taught and can perform things like that just for fun. Is it perfect?. Hell no , who cares. If you want to critisise atleast talk about the pro's like Nuno Palma, Carlos and Daniel Pinto, Miguel Ralao just to mention a few or even Anky when she rode a Lusitano but let an amateur that just wants to enjoy himself out of it. Jesus I hate that "I am god almighty "attitude almost is as bad as Pepperoni himself

TwoArabs
Oct. 14, 2007, 01:29 PM
Okay, I was just pointing out why I felt uncomfortable with this ride. Here is a ride that I could watch all day.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qhuip8kyBTU

LarkspurCO
Oct. 14, 2007, 01:29 PM
TwoArabs, I went back and watched the ears in piaffe again - look pinned there. I also saw the butt slap in the passage. This can only mean one thing: I could ride that horse!

So he isn't the great Raphael, but this ain't the Olympics. Speaking of which, how about this ride?

http://www.veoh.com/videos/v8290697tcWSeJY

dutchmike
Oct. 14, 2007, 01:38 PM
Okay, I was just pointing out why I felt uncomfortable with this ride. Here is a ride that I could watch all day.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qhuip8kyBTU

I like to see a warmblood beat that Passage and Piaffe;). One day there will be a new breed that has the stride of a warmblood and the collection of a Barroque horse and that will be the new medal taker

TwoArabs
Oct. 14, 2007, 01:45 PM
Absoolutely breathtaking!!!!

~Freedom~
Oct. 14, 2007, 01:45 PM
Larkspur, I guess you are right so I'll shut up and also enjoy the video.


Larkspur is probably referring to others.

As far as the video my reply was basic as too long a reply often gets interpreted as a brag. Besides the sway, the wide behind is an indication the horse is not steady in the work ( whether the wide behind occurs all the time or not) and from that statement it opens a ton of other questions.

I don't feel that the members here are so uninformed that I had to go into every little detail.

LarkspurCO
Oct. 14, 2007, 01:50 PM
Okay, I was just pointing out why I felt uncomfortable with this ride. Here is a ride that I could watch all day.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qhuip8kyBTU

Wouldn't mind hanging around the quaint little villa, either. Sipping cool drinks while watching a very cool ride.

~Freedom~
Oct. 14, 2007, 02:00 PM
Okay, I was just pointing out why I felt uncomfortable with this ride. Here is a ride that I could watch all day.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qhuip8kyBTU

Cool.

I would rather watch this than most of the "dressage" clips any day. Shows a well trained submissive horse ridden by a RIDER !!

slc2
Oct. 14, 2007, 02:51 PM
Here I see a very impure, bumping, pacey walk, incorrectly working back and hind legs, restricted, short, tense steps, continual tension and fussing at the bit, a tail that never stops switching, spinning and thrashing back and forth, and a horse whose neck and head are in exactly the same position as the pony 'Power and Paint', except that the head is a little higher; if anything, this position is more restrictive.

but you see here, here it's ok for the horse's head to be in the same position as Power and Paint's, and no one will complain about this, because this guy is wearing a period costume and he's a baroque horseman.

just more proof that the competition riders are held to a very, very different standard than the baroque riders. this horse's chin isn't just close to his chest, his whole jawline is almost pressed against his neck! it would be closer, except the ends of the curb bit shanks are already pressing on his neck and chest.

and aside from evaluating it technically as dressage, i've seen much better exhibitions of this sort of horsemanship, with much calmer, supple and more correct paces from the horse, and a straighter, more correct seat of the rider.

~Freedom~
Oct. 14, 2007, 02:59 PM
Here I see a very impure, bumping, pacey walk, incorrectly working back and hind legs, restricted, short, tense steps, continual tension and fussing at the bit, a tail that never stops switching, spinning and thrashing back and forth, and a horse whose neck and head are in exactly the same position as the pony 'Power and Paint', except that the head is a little higher; if anything, this position is more restrictive.

but you see here, here it's ok for the horse's head to be in the same position as Power and Paint's, and no one will complain about this, because this guy is wearing a period costume and he's a baroque horseman.

just more proof that the competition riders are held to a very, very different standard than the baroque riders. this horse's chin isn't just close to his chest, his whole jawline is almost pressed against his neck! it would be closer, except the ends of the curb bit shanks are already pressing on his neck and chest.


SLC I am not going to argue with you. All I am going to say is who cares.

I stated what and who I am in the other thread about what level you are/competed at and that should give me the right to state what I happen to like without explanation.

slc2
Oct. 14, 2007, 03:06 PM
if you're so knowledgeable and experienced, please then explain how a baroque horse, in this kind of demonstration, is not negatively effected by being this overbent, this behind the vertical, and this much tight in his neck, when it destroys the competitive performance to do the exact same thing.

please explain how it becomes so revolting to watch even a few moments, destroys the competitive horse's basics, aherence to classical dressage, questions the moral and ethical principles of the judges, violates every rule of the FEI, brings into question the rider's ethics and willingness to abuse his horse, yet presents such a pleasing picture in this video, that one could watch all day. possible choices, or add your own:

'it's a baroque horse, they're different'.:)

'we can say what we like, but you aren't allowed to find something in the same video to not like' :)

'you haven't competed at a high enough level in regular dressage to tell if a horse is behind the vertical or has mincing tiny steps, or is swatting his tail'.:)

'you haven't run around with the pole or put on the hat, so you have no right to criticize the posture or gaits of the horse' :)

'it's a different kind of riding, so it's ok'.:D

'it's not that bad'.:lol:

'the horse's chin is only on his chest once in a while':yes:

'you're a spy for sjeff'.:cool:

~Freedom~
Oct. 14, 2007, 03:12 PM
if you're so knowledgeable and experienced, please then explain how a baroque horse, in this kind of demonstration, is not negatively effected by being this overbent, this behind the vertical, and this much tight in his neck, when it destroys the competitive performance to do the exact same thing.

please explain how it becomes so revolting to watch even a few moments, destroys the competitive horse's basics, aherence to classical dressage, questions the moral and ethical principles of the judges, violates every rule of the FEI, brings into question the rider's ethics and willingness to abuse his horse, yet presents such a pleasing picture in this video.


Because I can throw out "classical dressage" as this clearly isn't. I watch it for the sheer pleasure of seeing a horse and rider working together.

Believe it or not I can also watch the rodeo and root for the rider, does that make me any less a classical rider/trainer? No it doesn't. Different disciplines carry different expectations and it is the purest that cannot see that and live with the fact that not all horses are going to go or be trained just the way YOU want them to be.

Just don't present to me a "dressage" horse that is not there either by genetics or training as that I will rip apart.

Kathy Johnson
Oct. 14, 2007, 05:30 PM
Could they have fit more horses into the arena? Except for the gray being taped, I don't think I saw the same horse twice, and there were a bunch of them.

BarbB
Oct. 14, 2007, 05:45 PM
these problems are not seen by the other posters

:sigh:
no comment
:sigh:

NoDQhere
Oct. 14, 2007, 06:16 PM
In the first video, I see a horse that is not "correct" BUT he does seem content and willing, so not so bad. Now the 2nd video bothers me more. That horses head looks to me to be TIED in place and that is a pretty long shanked curb. Kinda like rollkur :eek: Yes, the horse appears well behaved and the rider is pretty slick with that pole, but still. To me it looks as though the horse doesn't have any options. What ever you call it, IMO that horse is in as bad or worse position than Power and Point. For the record, I'd not put any horse in that position, or rollkur, for any reason.

Welkin007
Oct. 14, 2007, 06:41 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nk_n1yQlmT0&mode=related&search=

They have a purpose. I'd take one of them anyday, over any FEI warmblood, looks like what the whole point of dressage, or most horsemanship is for: rideable, maneuverable horses to do a JOB with. Or, I may be waaaay out in left field. Oh well.

~Freedom~
Oct. 14, 2007, 07:07 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nk_n1yQlmT0&mode=related&search=

They have a purpose. I'd take one of them anyday, over any FEI warmblood, looks like what the whole point of dressage, or most horsemanship is for: rideable, maneuverable horses to do a JOB with. Or, I may be waaaay out in left field. Oh well.


See I can appreciate the work and usefulness that goes into these horses. Are they beautiful...absolutely but maybe not in a pure dressage sense but in an equestrian sense.

They are being trained in the way they always have been and with the equipment they have been using for eons. It is not my place to say anything as first I have no direct knowledge of the process that goes into their selection and training.

So Welkin I am in left field with you.

Red Barn
Oct. 14, 2007, 07:28 PM
Left field could get pretty crowded.

It certainly seems like the #1 reason competitive equestrian sports go off the rails into bizarre forms of exaggeration – like WP, Big Lick, etc – is the fact that they eventually exist for the sake of competition ONLY. Utility in real life is forgotten.

Maybe every discipline needs the occasional reality check.

dutchmike
Oct. 14, 2007, 07:57 PM
this is what is taking off in Europe at the moment

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-J75hWF4MiI

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qEKJ5iw4vhs&mode=related&search=

They are having European championships already

STF
Oct. 14, 2007, 07:59 PM
this is what is taking off in Europe at the moment

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-J75hWF4MiI

European Charros???? LOL

Red Barn
Oct. 14, 2007, 08:07 PM
Thanks, dutchmike.

That's totally neat!

gr8fulrider
Oct. 14, 2007, 08:20 PM
I think that the moment you type these words, you have to know the answer.

:no:


Thanks for posting the video. I enjoyed watching it.

TwoArabs
Oct. 14, 2007, 08:29 PM
Dutchmike,

WOW!

Welkin007
Oct. 14, 2007, 08:29 PM
That is a "trail" class I would love to do! Looks like so much fun!

Calamber
Oct. 14, 2007, 08:35 PM
Docked tails? Overbent, tense looking horses look good? I like supple and soft and happy looking horses. The first gray had alot of talent but I cannot say I like the fact he looks confused as hell, and practically skipping in the piaffe because he is jumping off of the constant rat a tat on his sides. No thank you, there was a reason that classical dressage grew out of the Renaissance. And no, I do not compete in either high level dressage or baroque but I do have a highly developed sense of beauty and this does nothing but make me feel sorry for the animals.

dutchmike
Oct. 14, 2007, 08:39 PM
Docked tails? Overbent, tense looking horses look good? I like supple and soft and happy looking horses. The first gray had alot of talent but I cannot say I like the fact he looks confused as hell, and practically skipping in the piaffe because he is jumping off of the constant rat a tat on his sides. No thank you, there was a reason that classical dressage grew out of the Renaissance. And no, I do not compete in either high level dressage or baroque but I do have a highly developed sense of beauty and this does nothing but make me feel sorry for the animals.

No docked tails they are tied up. Docking tails has been ilegal for atleast 10 years in most european countries. I think they can still do it spain but even there I am not 100% sure. Please get your facts right before typing nonsense

petitefilly
Oct. 14, 2007, 08:57 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qhuip8kyBTU

I thought it was great. I'd love to do this type of riding from time to time. It looks like a fine way to teach the horse to be unafraid and obey all your leg aids. :)

~Freedom~
Oct. 14, 2007, 09:12 PM
And look at the result of that training.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HgG_Gwy7Ysg

Welkin007
Oct. 14, 2007, 09:15 PM
No matter what your opinion of bull fighting, it is still absolutely breathtaking and phenomenal.

Jasper'sMom
Oct. 14, 2007, 09:16 PM
http://www.findinternettv.com/Video,item,1992032885.aspx

I'm not upper level expert, but her is one of the nicest dressage videos I've ever seen on the internet. Seldom Seen is 17 years old, at retirement, and he looks like a horse (er, pony) who enjoys his work. No tail swishing, fighting, pinned ears, overbent neck, etc. He doesn't look like he is about to bolt out of the ring at the end of the ride. He looks relaxed and happy and tuned in to his rider. And to my relatively uneducated eye, he looks quite correct. Not so "flashy" as what we see in the upper levels today, perhaps, but quite correct nonetheless.

So, who wants to disagree and pick this video apart? I'll be sorry to hear it, and might have to skip reading those posts, but I'm sure there is someone out there who will do it. :rolleyes:

dutchmike
Oct. 14, 2007, 09:20 PM
And look at the result of that training.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HgG_Gwy7Ysg

Isn't it amazing though?. The power of that horse. Believe me when a horse doesn't want to do it they don't. It is not just any horse that can end up in the the arena doing that. It is brutal ,it is cruel but it is also still amazing to watch those horses perform.

Welkin007
Oct. 14, 2007, 09:22 PM
Isn't it amazing though?. The power of that horse. Believe me when a horse doesn't want to do it they don't. It is not just any horse that can end up in the the arena doing that. It is brutal ,it is cruel but it is also still amazing to watch those horses perform.

The first spin that horse did I'd be flying across the arena, lol! Although I imagine with that bull in the ring I'd hit the ground running!

~Freedom~
Oct. 14, 2007, 09:26 PM
Personally the best part in Seldom Seen's video was the two jumps. Goes to show you that little feller could jump. :lol:

dutchmike
Oct. 14, 2007, 09:33 PM
The first spin that horse did I'd be flying across the arena, lol! Although I imagine with that bull in the ring I'd hit the ground running!

I did it once in my young years and I can tell you that the horse saved my butt because I just about crapped myself and that was a bull that weighed 600 pounds and not one that weighed 1200 or so. So that was once and never again.It made me respect the guys who do it for a living though.

Dalfan
Oct. 14, 2007, 09:43 PM
What a beautiful, athletic horse. Amazing. Thanks for posting that DM.

dutchmike
Oct. 14, 2007, 09:49 PM
So this guy ,Joao got pissed off. I know that guy but didn't know he was that crazy lol

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w0WVaKj4UO0

BTW the horse was not injured

Dalfan
Oct. 14, 2007, 09:59 PM
Wow :eek: He looked pretty messed up. Do you know if he was hurt?

Welkin007
Oct. 14, 2007, 10:01 PM
Remind me never to mess with his horse, hate to see what he'd do to me if he's willing to stand off to a bull over his pony lol.

dutchmike
Oct. 14, 2007, 10:01 PM
Wow :eek: He looked pretty messed up. Do you know if he was hurt?

Not badly but enough not to do something stupid as that again;)

TwoArabs
Oct. 15, 2007, 06:01 AM
Thank you, Jasper's Mom. I really enjoyed Seldom Seen. Lendon Gray has been one of the riders that I have always admired.

rcloisonne
Oct. 15, 2007, 07:47 AM
No matter what your opinion of bull fighting, it is still absolutely breathtaking and phenomenal.
Exactly! And of all the "dressage" videos out there, this horse seems to me the most well trained, willing and fit. I ask you, if you were going into battle, which horse would you choose as your mount? Merlin or anything Anky rides? This is true RIDING and partnership with the horse, not the perverted parody too often seen in GP dressage "shows".

And for once, I completely agree with slc2 regarding that "stick trained" horse. Are those that think this is a good demonstration completely blind?

Here I see a very impure, bumping, pacey walk, incorrectly working back and hind legs, restricted, short, tense steps, continual tension and fussing at the bit, a tail that never stops switching, spinning and thrashing back and forth, and a horse whose neck and head are in exactly the same position as the pony 'Power and Paint', except that the head is a little higher; if anything, this position is more restrictive.
:yes: :yes: :yes:

The first video is also a horror. It shows a horse who looks to have a suspensory problem in his right rear and a rider who is blissfully ignorant of what his horse is so desperately trying to tell him. :(

FireBreathingMad
Oct. 15, 2007, 08:35 AM
The rest of you have entered your competititve stature on another thread.

SLC, I would be curious to know which FEI level you are at? From your comments all over this board, you must be highly expert.

Rusty Stirrup
Oct. 15, 2007, 09:12 AM
JM thanks for posting the Seldom Seen video. I haven't watched it in ages. Now, there's some wonderful work! I'd love to see many the top horses in today's competitive arena be as versatile.

AnotherRound
Oct. 15, 2007, 09:50 AM
The rest of you have entered your competititve stature on another thread.

SLC, I would be curious to know which FEI level you are at? From your comments all over this board, you must be highly expert.


So many are waiting for SLC to fess up to her perfromance level, or lack of it. I would like her missives to be qualifed by an honest and straightforward response. Or will we only receive derision and disclaimers? Where in the world has SLC earned her authority?

slc2
Oct. 15, 2007, 10:14 AM
you want me to break my new rule, which in view of new commitments, is to post on 1-2 threads, one day a week, on sunday morning, and that's it? ok. but this is the LAST TIME :)

i have no experience. none. i have no business saying anything. and if that's the qualification for offering an opinion on what one sees, then 99% of dressage riders have no right to say anything either, because they also have no experience at the fei; in fact, about 95 % of the dressage tests in the usa are at intro and training level, so you would then have a huge army of people who have no right to say anything about anything they see in dressage, except at intro and training level.:yes:

FireBreathingMad
Oct. 15, 2007, 10:30 AM
SLC: I was not trying to be derisive. I asked because you post with such authority. You post as if your word is not only the final world, but the ONLY word. At least, the only CORRECT one. If someone is going to insist they speak with authority, most of us would like to see it backed up with some kind of credentials. If you don't have those credentials, why not take less of a professorial stance? For me? I don't show and I don't know these things many of you speak of so I refrain from commenting. As the saying goes with art, "I know what I like." But I cannot say it is the correct way, the best way or the only way. I cannot proclaim to know what is correct with no opening for other opinions. AND, if I'm to take advice from someone, they must have a lot of experience, credentials, for me to feel comfortable taking that advice.

How can you give advice if you have never been in competition to have your own methods judged? How do you know you are correct if you have never been put to the test?

You realize that you do, indeed, post as if you are the most experienced on this forum. Your claim to have met K? When did you meet him? At what venue? How old was he then? What mount was he using for himself?

NoDQhere
Oct. 15, 2007, 10:46 AM
Why is it that EVERYTHING has to be compared to Dressage?? If competitive Dressage is SOOOOOOO BAD, why are so many people so desperate to have their "sport" thought of as "better than" or "the same as" DRESSAGE??????

The horse Merlin is a fantastic athelete, very well trained, no doubt about that, and his rider is equally fantastic. Just breath taking to watch. But much more comparable to cutting or working cow horse, than Dressage. I wonder what would happen if someone posted that video on a "cow horse/AQHA forum with the title, "Now this is cutting" :lol::lol::lol:

All the Baroque videos posted are interesting. The horses are beautiful. But they are not Dressage horses, mainly because the basics are not there.

And Seldom Seen was a wonderful horse and I doubt anyone will critize him. He "introduced" many people to competitive Dressage over the years.

And lastly, just because a horse is successful at competitive Dressage doesn't mean he is usless for anything else. Our old guy, Meisterwind could "turn it on" do Grand Prix movements, then have a child put on his back and he would walk off on a loose rein like a dead broke school horse. He was great to trail ride as NOTHING spooked him.

So how about just enjoying :yes::yes::yes:

MistyBlue
Oct. 15, 2007, 03:03 PM
if that's the qualification for offering an opinion on what one sees, then 99% of dressage riders have no right to say anything either, because they also have no experience at the fei;

Others don't tend to post their opinions as facts from current or past experiences either. Just noticing. :)

AnotherRound
Oct. 15, 2007, 03:25 PM
you want me to break my new rule, which in view of new commitments, is to post on 1-2 threads, one day a week, on sunday morning, and that's it? ok. but this is the LAST TIME

i have no experience. none. i have no business saying anything. and if that's the qualification for offering an opinion on what one sees, then 99% of dressage riders have no right to say anything either, because they also have no experience at the fei; in fact, about 95 % of the dressage tests in the usa are at intro and training level, so you would then have a huge army of people who have no right to say anything about anything they see in dressage, except at intro and training level.


Wow. When did you make up that rule? Sunday? Today, when you were called out for not participating in the "Fess up" thread? LOL.

See SLC, other people don't claim to be know it alls the way you do, or to have the only opinion which is correct or valid, the way you do, nor are they snide to other posters and put down other people's opinons as uneducated, the way you do. We want to hear everyone's opinions, not just yours, and, we want to be able to understand how experienced they are when they claim to know it all. You. Mainly, when you claim to know it all, we want to know where that comes from. Thanks. Now we know.

dutchmike
Oct. 15, 2007, 03:47 PM
Thanks SLC now atleast know that I have to take your comments not with a pinch of salt but with a truck load of salt;)

NOMIOMI1
Oct. 15, 2007, 04:16 PM
My western trainer about 2 years ago was from South America. Do you guys even know what they do to those cow horses and bull horses? Ya they are trained they do roll backs until they drop and bit them up for days. Those horses are leg trained 100 times more than the pleasure horses that you guys complain about. THey have been so beat off those long shank bits they wouldnt touch it if it was apple scented sheesh. My lease horse at one point was a charro/bull horse a beautiful pinto that they trained by using a pick up truck to dodge and a few times he must not have made it because he had more chips and old fractures than a race horse. GET A GRIP these horses are so punished and jerked and forced they are light and sensative because they learn life and death if they arent or at least pole and spur. They tie horses to vehicles if the horse doesnt keep up and drag them until they learn that when you pull they need to come forward and they pull them over backwards when they are young to show them that they are dominant. The list goes on! Im so sad about this thread I could cry!

~Freedom~
Oct. 15, 2007, 04:51 PM
My western trainer about 2 years ago was from South America. Do you guys even know what they do to those cow horses and bull horses? Ya they are trained they do roll backs until they drop and bit them up for days. Those horses are leg trained 100 times more than the pleasure horses that you guys complain about. THey have been so beat off those long shank bits they wouldnt touch it if it was apple scented sheesh. My lease horse at one point was a charro/bull horse a beautiful pinto that they trained by using a pick up truck to dodge and a few times he must not have made it because he had more chips and old fractures than a race horse. GET A GRIP these horses are so punished and jerked and forced they are light and sensative because they learn life and death if they arent or at least pole and spur. They tie horses to vehicles if the horse doesnt keep up and drag them until they learn that when you pull they need to come forward and they pull them over backwards when they are young to show them that they are dominant. The list goes on! Im so sad about this thread I could cry!


Really ? I personally know of one such type horse trained outside of South America ( Argentina I believe is where most are trained) that could do all that these could do without being trained via any of the methods you just described.

Please do tell us about your PERSONAL experience and not what you may have read or heard. I will wait to hear.

Calliope
Oct. 15, 2007, 04:56 PM
I would have thought that this sort of mistreatment went on in every country to some extent. To paint an entire country - or even an entire continent - with the same brush is a little extreme, don't you think?

I have seen some horses being trained at a stud in Spain; the lightness and care with which they were worked and handled was inspiring. My experience is that these horses are often naturally very sensitive and light.

Does every 'baroque' farm work their horses so well? no. But they aren't all nightmares.

OnCue
Oct. 15, 2007, 06:01 PM
The first video appears to be a charro horse, I'm judging this by the sway... it's very common. I don't think I've ever heard anyone describe a charro horse as being a correct dressage horse. Not as an insult, just that they're two different things. It seems like every dressage PRE stallion (they're always stallions) in Southern California started charro, and spends a few years being retrained "correctly" before open dressage competition.

But what do I know, I'm a training level rider. lol!

dutchmike
Oct. 15, 2007, 06:08 PM
I would have thought that this sort of mistreatment went on in every country to some extent. To paint an entire country - or even an entire continent - with the same brush is a little extreme, don't you think?

I have seen some horses being trained at a stud in Spain; the lightness and care with which they were worked and handled was inspiring. My experience is that these horses are often naturally very sensitive and light.

Does every 'baroque' farm work their horses so well? no. But they aren't all nightmares.

Exactly.

MistyBlue
Oct. 15, 2007, 08:00 PM
My western trainer about 2 years ago was from South America. Do you guys even know what they do to those cow horses and bull horses?

Yup...I do know. I have a friend from Argentina (who is sick of me singing to him Don't Cry For Me Argentina...I sing really badly) and I know two ranch owners in Uruguay and one in Brazil. My geography isn't so great...but I'm pretty sure all three of those countries are on the South American continent.
None abuse their horses. All spoil their horses probably worse than I do mine.
As a matter of fact...in my neck of the woods if a training barn of any discipline can get their hands on a trainer from those three countries named...they swoon with delight. Their reps around here are as people from areas where the horses they're in charge of training come before their own families.
So please do not generalize and insult an entire continent of well-known fantastic horsemen and women. South America is pretty huge...I;m sure there's a million more training facilities down there than the one your contact knew about. :eek:

LarkspurCO
Oct. 15, 2007, 08:53 PM
I went back to the Garatcha video and found a reference to the Spanish trainer's web site, so I went there to have a look. There are more videos of the little bay pole-dancer horse. The first one is a treat. It's a big download but you get a larger format of Jesús Morales riding around two flamenco guitarists.

I noticed a few things about the horse. He can freely lift his head, and through much of the ride his nose is well in front of the vertical. The horse has a short neck and does go behind the vertical, but he isn't forced there. I also noticed him licking and chewing, and -- heaven forfend -- the highest point of his neck is his poll.:eek:

For those who likened his head set to rollkur in the YouTube video, I think you need to look at the first video, here:

http://www.espectaculomorales.com/La%20Garrocha.htm - scroll to the links below the art, Actuación 1 and pick the Formato intermedio file.

Here's the direct link to the video file (78MB): http://www.espectaculomorales.com/Media/Videos%20actuaciones/Jes%FAs%20Morales%20-%20Actuaci%F3n%201.mpg


I think it's beautiful. It does not even resemble rollkur. (I just don't understand how he holds the reins with his penis.:D)

Sonesta
Oct. 15, 2007, 08:54 PM
WOW! What made slc finally fess up to being a fraud? Interesting!

AnotherRound
Oct. 16, 2007, 10:49 AM
Two of us asked her to declare herself, one after the other. Very interesting indeed.

AnotherRound
Oct. 16, 2007, 10:54 AM
None abuse their horses. All spoil their horses probably worse than I do mine.


This is my experience with argentinian (and several other south american countries, as well) trainers as well. Nothing of what NIOMIONO describes.

It is insulting to generalize. Ignorant, racist and uneducated too. What a shame.

NOMIOMI1
Oct. 16, 2007, 01:27 PM
WOW this board is full of double talkers. A group defending the charro horses and their riders ummm ok. On a dressage board um ok. Im so lost you have probs with PP and then back up these guys including the bull fighters???? My lease horse was a rescue from this kind of training and your crazy if you think any and I do mean any of it is good or kind. So you know some people of this country who train their horses nicey nicey let me see it because these cowboys know how to cowboy and they do. Curbs in their mouth from backing to forever and they bit them up in it too! Ignorance is bliss Ive met the man that travels the continent giving seminars in hopes of getting more poeple and trainers there to understand that an Iron fist is not always needed. You guys crack me up. So one way and then the other but hang Coby and Anky LOL.

class
Oct. 16, 2007, 01:32 PM
when someone mentions that you appear ignorant, racist and uneducated, a good way to respond is by spouting more of the same. that way you really cement it for those who were on the fence about your idiocy.

PiedPiper
Oct. 16, 2007, 02:08 PM
WOW this board is full of double talkers. A group defending the charro horses and their riders ummm ok. On a dressage board um ok. Im so lost you have probs with PP and then back up these guys including the bull fighters???? My lease horse was a rescue from this kind of training and your crazy if you think any and I do mean any of it is good or kind. So you know some people of this country who train their horses nicey nicey let me see it because these cowboys know how to cowboy and they do. Curbs in their mouth from backing to forever and they bit them up in it too! Ignorance is bliss Ive met the man that travels the continent giving seminars in hopes of getting more poeple and trainers there to understand that an Iron fist is not always needed. You guys crack me up. So one way and then the other but hang Coby and Anky LOL.

Yes and as we are all WELL aware, ONE experience must mean a standard for a whole continent of people. :rolleyes:

NOMIOMI1
Oct. 16, 2007, 02:13 PM
Let me clarify. Charro riders and bull fighters are who I am refering too on any continent. To broaden my generalization a bit! HEE HEE:yes:

Brookes
Oct. 16, 2007, 02:29 PM
NOMONINI,

I was in Spain two years ago and was very fortunate to meet some folks that invited me to watch the training of "Charro" and "Bullfighting" horses. I went for two days and saw nothing that would even come close to what you have described.

These were obviously very valuable animals that were treated kindly. The training itself was not brutal in anyway.

I have a feeling that at the ripe old age of 23 that you haven't the foggiest clue what the heck you are talking about.

Heresay is just worthless. If you had actually seen something like what you described happen perhaps others wouldn't be so incredulous about your comments.

lorilu
Oct. 16, 2007, 02:35 PM
Just this type of thread disintegration is why I find myself rarely posting here, and why this board tends to have a less-than-friendly reputation.

Loretta

AnotherRound
Oct. 16, 2007, 02:37 PM
Yah, please clarify. Because this rant:


My western trainer about 2 years ago was from South America. Do you guys even know what they do to those cow horses and bull horses? Ya they are trained they do roll backs until they drop and bit them up for days. Those horses are leg trained 100 times more than the pleasure horses that you guys complain about

is all about about south american cow horses and western trainers, and was not, as far as I could tell, about charro horses. You lumped South American horsemen in with your racism.

You sound stupid and intolerant, and limited in your experience and exposure, as well as ignorant.

Sweeping generalizations about people turns me off. You aren't the be-all and end-all authority on South American horsemanship.


I have a feeling that at the ripe old age of 23 that you haven't the foggiest clue what the heck you are talking about.


I have the feeling you didn't get the broad, generalized hint in the "Experience" poll, that people who spew bull$h!t with no education or experience behind them are going to get called on it, and that this board has little tolerance for unsubstantiated and unresearched statements about dressage and horse training. SLC has been smart enough to lay low, once again, having fessed up to no experience to back up her hypergraphia. You, having next to nothing compared, might simmer down a little, yourself.

AnotherRound
Oct. 16, 2007, 02:41 PM
Oh, and NOIOMI, many of us are asking if punctuation marks cost you money or something. Because, for the rest of us, punctuation is free.

I am also wondering, a little bit to myself, what most of what you talk about on this forum has to do with dressage? Because I am not experienced, I try to read those who talk as though they know their subject, so I can learn, but you seem all over the place and little you say has to do with the topics at hand, and even less to do with riding correctly. Please. Its becoming wearying reading you only to find out how off the wall what you say is. I suggest you read, listen and learn. But that's just me. OK, I'm done. Back to reading.

MistyBlue
Oct. 16, 2007, 03:24 PM
WOW this board is full of double talkers. A group defending the charro horses and their riders ummm ok. On a dressage board um ok. Im so lost you have probs with PP and then back up these guys including the bull fighters????

Since I am one who stated knowing quite a few horse trainers from South America and refuting your statement that your leased horse proves all South Americans are rabid abusers...I'm going to assume you include myself as a double talker.
Rest assured...I am not. I say what I mean and I mean what I say. :winkgrin:My problems with PP have been typed out in detail on the PP thread...in a nut shell, my problem is thier marketing type. Not that they market...but the way they do it. Bullfighting horses are trained in a myriad of ways...just like any other discipline. There's good and bad in everything...and in South America there are more good trainers than bad. Otherwise most of the top barns in this country wouldn't fight tooth and nail to get their hands on those trainers.

My lease horse was a rescue from this kind of training and your crazy if you think any and I do mean any of it is good or kind.
With all due respect...you know *one* horse who was rescued from one bad trainer and in the same sentence now condemn ALL trainers as bad and cruel? :confused:

So you know some people of this country who train their horses nicey nicey let me see it because these cowboys know how to cowboy and they do. Curbs in their mouth from backing to forever and they bit them up in it too!
In this country...I personally know about a couple dozen trainers originally from South America. In that continent (not a country) I know 4. Some of them do use curs when they ride. Actually...so do I when riding my AQHA. The rein is looped...not understanding the inherent evilness of a curb?

Ignorance is bliss
True dat. :yes:
Only some of us are not ignorant of South American trainers...and are basing our opinions on many personal relationships or friendships with these trainers instead of one hearsay incident of an abused lease horse.

NOMIOMI1
Oct. 16, 2007, 03:33 PM
Ok so have any of you ever heard of "horse tripping" and have you seen it first hand? Believe what you want to believe but this conversation started with a "charro rider on a charro trained horse". Charro is abusive it really really really is Ive seen it in Southern California and here in Arizona and it comes primarily from Spain and South American countrys you can call me names all day and that doesnt stop the abusive sports coming from that continent and giving it a bad name. :no:

gr8fulrider
Oct. 16, 2007, 03:38 PM
Ok so have any of you ever heard of "horse tripping" and have you seen it first hand? Believe what you want to believe but this conversation started with a "charro rider on a charro trained horse". Charro is abusive it really really really is Ive seen it in Southern California and here in Arizona and it comes primarily from Spain and other South American countrys you can call me names all day and that doesnt stop the abusive sports coming from that continent and giving it a bad name. :no:

Two things:

(1) Punctuation really is free. See? I just used it. And again. And again.
(2) This is from your signature: "If I have time to bash upper level riders then I am not training hard enough!" Ummm, you're not riding enough.

Calliope
Oct. 16, 2007, 03:39 PM
But saying that something "really, really, really" is so is not really a convincing argument, don't you think? ;)

Good and bad riding knows no geographical bounds!



edited 'cause I can't spell...

Camstock
Oct. 16, 2007, 03:43 PM
May I please hijack this thread back to the OP's original question?

The answer is "no" apparently we can not agree on whether it is good riding/training.

However, I would be in the camp that is impressed with the horse, just from the sheer concentration he displayed in that packed ring. He also uses his hocks well from what I can tell. Yes, there were a few bobbles, but I know if I put my horse in a busy ring like that, I would be delighted with that level of attention ane relative relaxation. Good on him.

Welkin007
Oct. 16, 2007, 03:49 PM
First off, I was first taught how to ride when I lived in Argentina for a couple years. I must be abusive then, because that is how South American trainer/riders are, huh? Amazingly, I'm not, my trainers weren't, the other kids riding weren't, and in fact the teeny tots riding on ponies with only a bareback blanket had better seats and hands that I've seen on most adults around the US.

I stayed at a couple estancias in Argentina too, where, my my, they rode criollos and other stock & baroque type horses. I don't recall the abused and unhappy horses. Were they spoiled? No, but all the ones I saw looked healthy and cared for, though not pampered.

Infact, even the cart-horses carrying scrap metal and vegetable carts looked pretty darn good, many with ribbons in their mane and children petting them when stopped. Would I like my horse to have that life? No, but it was pretty far removed from abuse to me.

Ok, I'm done now. Maybe!

MistyBlue
Oct. 16, 2007, 04:07 PM
Ok so have any of you ever heard of "horse tripping" and have you seen it first hand? Believe what you want to believe but this conversation started with a "charro rider on a charro trained horse". Charro is abusive it really really really is Ive seen it in Southern California and here in Arizona and it comes primarily from Spain and other South American countrys you can call me names all day and that doesnt stop the abusive sports coming from that continent and giving it a bad name.

Oh for heaven's sake...I honestly do not like to get exasperated at posts online and if you do a search on my posts you'll see I'm not one to get into a snark fest but..
I must respectfully as possible point out that you are not making any sense because you do not know the facts of what you are posting.
A Charro is a MEXICAN cowboy...Mexico is part of North America...not South America.
South American cattle herders are called gauchos, llaneros, huasos, etc depending on which country they're from. Those are countries down there...not states like in the USA. Each has different languages. And different equestrian styles.
Horse tripping is Mexican...and it's not a national sport for them. It's a back-street embarassment to Mexicans just as dog fighting is to us Americans. It's extremely ignorant to assume all hispanics across a few continents act like one small sub-sect of the dregs of Mexican equine society.

The majority of Mexicans who own and train horses do not trip horses.
Mexico is a NORTH American country.
South America is a while 'nother continent further south of us...past central America. They are not horse trippers nor are they charros.
Spain has had little do with Mexico or South America in...oohh...a long time. Spain does not horse trip. They do bull fight.
Charro only translates into Cowboy. Charro does not mean horse tripping or horse abuse. There are many good charros. Only asshat cowboys and charros horse trip or abuse horses in any way.
Being of hispanic originan does not make all hispanic countries and nationalities anything alike...just as being caucasian does not mean the Dutch, the French, the Americans, the Germans and the Australians are all exactly like Hitler because he was caucasian too.
Charro is not a continent. It doesn't mean abusive, tripping or anything other than cowboy. *sigh*

NOMIOMI1
Oct. 16, 2007, 04:20 PM
Well my old trainer begs to differ and since he is from Venezuela (South America) and they have Charros too and I assume he knows more about it than you do Ill take his word for it.

egontoast
Oct. 16, 2007, 04:30 PM
Sorry, but the FACTS are here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charo

harvestmoon
Oct. 16, 2007, 04:35 PM
Or:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charro

;)

BTW, great post, MistyBlue.

andalusia
Oct. 16, 2007, 04:38 PM
Where did you study geography, my dear? And I am from Spain. I promise you I have never beat any horse. Further, I resent and take offense to your statements. You, my dear, are the poster child for "The Ugly American."

MistyBlue
Oct. 16, 2007, 04:41 PM
In Venezuela cowboys are Llaneros (pronounced ya-NER-o)...same as in Columbia. And I think in Brazil too.
So yes...I will beg to differ with your trainer. :yes:
Your trainer may have come from a single ranch/farm that had questionable practices...thus where he got his misinformation that he passed on to you.
And as mentioned...also now by Andalusia...Spain is not anything like South America, Central America or Mexico. Hispanic or Mediterraneans are not all interchangeable.

~Freedom~
Oct. 16, 2007, 04:45 PM
My lease horse was a rescue from this kind of training and your crazy if you think any and I do mean any of it is good or kind.

Interesting as I know of one Clydesdale rescue that was used/trained to drive.

I do hope Thomas will come and explain that just because someone found ONE rescued driving harness horse that not all harness horses are trained badly.

NOMIOMI your generalizations only shows a complete lack of extensive experience. I had asked for your PERSONAL experience before in actually seeing how these horses trained. By that I mean you personally watching one trained from ground up and not someone else's description. Second or third hand experience means absolutely nothing to me.

EdwynEdwyn
Oct. 16, 2007, 04:59 PM
Sorry, but the FACTS are here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charo

Cuchi-cuchi! :D That is hilarious!

But yes, I fully agree with Andalusia's comment:


"'Spain and other South American Countries'
Where did you study geography, my dear? ... You, my dear, are the poster child for 'The Ugly American.'"

You may not mean to, Nomiomi, but this is all coming across terribly.

MistyBlue
Oct. 16, 2007, 05:04 PM
LMAO...I hadn't clicked on that link Eggy...didn't realize it was The Charo...not a charro. :lol:

AnotherRound
Oct. 16, 2007, 06:37 PM
I think maybe it won't do any good to try to reason with NOMIOMIO anymore. I don't think NOMIOMIOMI can discriminate between her narrow hate and rhetoric and how she is The Ugly American. Ignorance and stupidity defending each other. A real treat.

hitchinmygetalong
Oct. 16, 2007, 07:02 PM
I would like to thank those who quoted NOMIOMIO's soon-to-be-famous quote of "Spain and other South American countries" before she had a chance to go back and edit it.

Also, NOMIOMIO, before you start criticizing ANY other country regarding training methods, you need to take a good look at some of the shenanigans that have occurred in the good ol' U. S. of A. Americans are not exactly squeaky-clean when it comes to horse welfare. Case in point: Arab halter horses. I could tell stories that came straight from the horse's mouth, so to speak.

andalusia
Oct. 16, 2007, 07:30 PM
She seems to have checked a map and now has corrected the "Spain and other South American countries." However, she still seems to think both are on the same continent. This amuses me no end. If her geographical revelations are true, than I wish she'd make sure Spain is closer to Central America so this Wet Back's swim could be a short one. Thank you.

MistyBlue
Oct. 16, 2007, 07:44 PM
You didn't feel those continental plates shifting Spain out of Europe and over to South America Andalusia?
It really ruined my afternoon I'll tell ya! Caused so much rumbling it knocked over half my knick-knacks. :yes:

PiedPiper
Oct. 16, 2007, 07:51 PM
Ahh a product of the good ole US of A's public school system I am sure. :lol:

I can see why she is Slick's nifty new sidekick, "if one continues to argue in circular illogic logic it must become true!"

Coup De Des
Oct. 16, 2007, 09:42 PM
Tell me about this "No Child is Left Behind" Policy you've got going on over there???


This thread has been pure Gold. Thanks, Nomiomiomiomi

MistyBlue
Oct. 16, 2007, 09:46 PM
Okay...you caught us. Apparently one child got left behind.

dutchmike
Oct. 16, 2007, 09:52 PM
Does that mean Spain and Portugal are now known as the South American Iberian Peninsular:winkgrin:?

andalusia
Oct. 16, 2007, 11:40 PM
Of course, DutchMike. For further clarification, Disneyland is just a few miles to the north of us.

AnotherRound
Oct. 17, 2007, 08:04 AM
Tell me about this "No Child is Left Behind" Policy you've got going on over there???

Yeah, well, we couldn't find her like for ever, and when we finally did, she was 23 and all past getting edumacated. But SLC's been learnin' her real good: Make it up as you go, sweety, sound emphatic (that means really, really, really stubborn), don't let no one tell you different, and if you can, just start talking about cowponies and Mexicans, thems'll be scratching they's heads in no time.

NOMIOMI1
Oct. 17, 2007, 11:23 AM
Holy crap you guys have had a field day witht this one. I tried to fix it but wasnt fast enough hmm. Give me a rope Ill hang myself. I really meant to say Mexico not Spain but that would have been wrong too since the are North America. Ah well at least YOU all had fun.

hitchinmygetalong
Oct. 17, 2007, 11:33 AM
Nomi, next time you type out a post, click on "preview post" FIRST, read your post, make any corrections, then click on "submit reply." I've caught a lot of dumb mistakes of my own that way. Though there is always "the one that got away" that will haunt a poster forever.

CatOnLap
Oct. 17, 2007, 11:37 AM
Though there is always "the one that got away" that will haunt a poster forever.
Yes, lets please not talk about sex or politics or religion....or GEOGRAPHY!

AnotherRound
Oct. 17, 2007, 12:00 PM
Give me a rope Ill hang myself. I really meant to say Mexico not Spain but that would have been wrong too since the are North America. Ah well at least YOU all had fun.


I don't think the geographic correction would have gotten you out of this one. It has been the racism, ignorance, circular reasoning, discipline bashing, punctuationlessness, generalizing from one example, not seeing how ignorant that is and defending doing that, posting opinion as fact, and so much more, which other posters have pointed out (what, you only read one response??). I don't know if it was really all that fun because its so sad how you don't see yourself, but you sure have made it easy.

fiona
Oct. 17, 2007, 12:14 PM
I don't think the geographic correction would have gotten you out of this one. ..... the racism, ignorance, circular reasoning, discipline bashing, punctuationlessness, generalizing from one example, not seeing how ignorant that is ..... posting opinion as fact, and so much more, .... (what, you only read one response??). I don't know if it was really all that fun because its so sad .....

Yeah but, apart from that she has a lot to offer, right?

AnotherRound
Oct. 17, 2007, 12:16 PM
Oh, sure. We all want to learn from that exerience presented as fact.

andalusia
Oct. 17, 2007, 12:21 PM
My country's beginning to lurch it's way back to its proper place. This is too bad as I looked forward to a closer proximity to Disney.

NOMIOMI1
Oct. 17, 2007, 12:24 PM
I don't think the geographic correction would have gotten you out of this one. It has been the racism, ignorance, circular reasoning, discipline bashing, punctuationlessness, generalizing from one example, not seeing how ignorant that is and defending doing that, posting opinion as fact, and so much more, which other posters have pointed out (what, you only read one response??). I don't know if it was really all that fun because its so sad how you don't see yourself, but you sure have made it easy.

IM just glad I have no Idea what you are talking about.

andalusia
Oct. 17, 2007, 12:26 PM
Can anyone explain to me why someone would purposely forego all punctuation? I find myself needing to read such posts twice to make certain I am receiving the author's meaning. This question does not refer only to EIEIO, but to others who seem to think it is ok to do this on internet postings. It can't be for speed as it hardly takes a split second to hit the period or comma. Is it considered "cool" or trendy to do this?

gr8fulrider
Oct. 17, 2007, 01:04 PM
I thought horse tripping had something to do with "special" mushrooms growing in Pokey's paddock. :D

Dude....the colors.....

caffeinated
Oct. 17, 2007, 01:04 PM
Horse tripping was defended too. Because it's not "really" what you think it is. That was somewhere on one of those endorphins for freaks thread. You remember - the dude that pinches nerves in the horse's neck and drops them down to the ground unconscious, as a training method for yearling TB race horses.

what the heck did lying horses down have to do with tripping galloping animals using ropes?

This thread has me so confused, first Spain being in South Amerkuh, and now this.

caffeinated
Oct. 17, 2007, 01:05 PM
IM just glad I have no Idea what you are talking about.

At least you're self-aware :cool:

AnotherRound
Oct. 17, 2007, 01:42 PM
Stupid is as stupid does.

Or are you being purposefully obtuse?

AnotherRound
Oct. 17, 2007, 01:50 PM
Ooh, rats. Another of those big words. Durn.

Erin
Oct. 17, 2007, 02:03 PM
Stupid is as stupid does.

Or are you being purposefully obtuse?

Um, did you miss the part in the BB rules about not calling people names?

BTW, you misspelled Shakespeare in your signature.

AnotherRound
Oct. 17, 2007, 02:35 PM
Sorry, that's really wrong of me, won't happen again.

Well, actually there are myriad ways to spell Shakespeare, as he spelled it numerous ways, himself, and, spelling at the time was not concrete especially names (folks spelled as it sounded to them) including without an e, but I actually did mean to spell it with an e, as is now corrected. Thanks, though.

Cheers.

fiona
Oct. 17, 2007, 03:21 PM
and, spelling at the time was not concrete especially
as it hadn't been invented yet?
Concrete that is.

Really you should have written .....spelling at the time was not all wattle and daub especially names.....

then i'd have got you straight away. Instead of being all confused about building materials and Will Shakespeare. Although if you subscribe to the theory that someone else wrote the stuff it's all a bit irrelevant.

caffeinated
Oct. 17, 2007, 03:24 PM
spelling at the time was not all wattle and daub, especially names.....

BWAH!!!!

(I think I'm just operating on way too little sleep, but can't stop giggling. Thank you. Thank you for that!)

Elegante E
Oct. 17, 2007, 03:55 PM
Can anyone explain to me why someone would purposely forego all punctuation? I find myself needing to read such posts twice to make certain I am receiving the author's meaning. This question does not refer only to EIEIO, but to others who seem to think it is ok to do this on internet postings. It can't be for speed as it hardly takes a split second to hit the period or comma. Is it considered "cool" or trendy to do this?

Naw, it's considered too much effort. That younger crowd...sigh, can't be bothered with spelling or punctuation.

Glad your homeland is heading home. Hope you have sunny weather for the trip!

DopyDgz
Oct. 17, 2007, 04:35 PM
Yowza! This thread shure makes me want to run right out and take up dressage, since ya'll are such a nice, friendly bunch!

OK, here is a challenge: I'd like to see anyone who has posted a snarky commentary on a video posted here post a video of themeslves riding, for all to critique.

Anyone....?

mp
Oct. 17, 2007, 04:37 PM
as it hadn't been invented yet?
Concrete that is.

Really you should have written .....spelling at the time was not all wattle and daub especially names.....

Another Round's reference was fine. The Romans invented concrete over 2,000 years ago. They used it to build the Coliseum and famous South American landmarks. Don't you know anything?

LarkspurCO
Oct. 17, 2007, 05:29 PM
OK, here is a challenge: I'd like to see anyone who has posted a snarky commentary on a video posted here post a video of themeslves riding, for all to critique.

DobyDgz, be careful what you ask for!


P.S. - I have found people in the real-life 3D dressage realm to be quite congenial. In fact, I've found this to be the case in nearly every discipline. A few jerks here and there, but mostly nice people everywhere.

fiona
Oct. 17, 2007, 06:14 PM
Don't you know anything?

Like, what are you? totally dumb? It's obvious what the answer to that question is!


The Romans invented concrete over 2,000 years ago. They used it to build the Coliseum and famous South American landmarks.

You mean they was real? Did they do stonehenge too?

CatOnLap
Oct. 17, 2007, 06:32 PM
The Romans invented concrete over 2,000 years ago. They used it to build the Coliseum and famous South American landmarks. Don't you know anything?

Hay! I thought the Egyptians invented concrete 5000 years ago and used it to build their pyramids and some of the ones in Mexico. They drifted over there with Andalusia when Spain abdicated from Europe.

Oh yeah. The Egyptians also drove horses in Chariots but did not ride them in dressage. Just to keep this dressage realted. The Xenophon greek guy invented dressage and that is written in concrete!