100 Day Test .... Predictions? Who is your Sure Winner?

[Hocus Focus]

I would love to hear impressions, predictions, on who may be the best in the pack? This years winner? Why you feel that way and let's see how it plays out and compare your predictions against final scores when they do arrive? Anyone care to make an educated guess?

Don't worry. It is not criminal to be wrong, and noone will hold it against you if you are. I would love to have some insight, and others as well.

[ahf]

I'm not sure how anyone could make an educated guess. THere are still 5 weeks left. I've been there three times, next Friday will be the forth, and I still see no front runner. I ALSO SEE STALLIONS IMPROVING EVERYTIME I GO TO PAXTON. There are good dressage stallions, and there are good jumping stallions.

All you railbirds will have ample time to disect the test and all it's participants afterwards.

And on the off-chance you missed the illustration of how some of the stallion owners, particularly myself, feel about this kind of conjecture.....
http://www.autumnhillfarm.com/vultures.html

[ahf]

Let me add, Hocus Pocus...this is not some sort of freaking game for anyone's amusement.

People like myself have put the colts they pulled out of their mothers, and taken on second mortages, in this test. Walk a mile in our shoes - then we'll see just how hot you are for a bunch of strangers to issue judgement before judgement day is here. Personally, I think you are just bored and looking for a trainwreck.

Once the scores are announced, all will be on the table.

[TKR]

I have to agree with AHF, I think that sort of question is in poor taste and can only cause hurt feelings and stupid debates about nothing. JMHO! Best of luck to all the stallion owners, I guess this is a good time to buy stock in ulcer meds based on what you must be going through!
PennyG

[ahf]

Actually, can't speak for the other stallion owners, but Green Mountain Coffee Roasters (GMCR - closing today at 37.72 - up .99) might be a good investment. ;-) We need caffine to get us through the day after not sleeping at night.

Proctor & Gamble (distributes Prilosec - my gastro drug of choice)...might be a worthwhile gamble on the bounce. The charts are schitzo. Closed up today .72

;-)

[Oakstable]

I agree with Autumn Hill.

Bet on horses at the racetrack instead.

[Edgar]

Lots of hopes and wishes but an onlookers guess is not nearly a complete picture nor fair.
The people that would have an idea about this are the ones working with them daily and their scores will be known after the test.

[krfarms]

I have to admire ANYONE with the guts to send their boys away!!!. I only have mares and my colts fates are ususally decided with a "snip". I cannot imagine the pride, worry, anguish, waiting and fear of something happening to your "boys".

Wishing everyone a successful experience no matter what the scores may reveal!!!!

[DownYonder]

Kate, just remember that no matter what the outcome for your boy, there are many of us here who will always have tremendous respect and admiration for you.

Jeez, if I had a stallion in the testing, I would need to be on Valium the entire time. :lol:

[Tiki]

Best wishes and good luck to ALL the stallions. There may be a high scorer, but ALL the stallions will be winners!!!

[STF]

And on the off-chance you missed the illustration of how some of the stallion owners, particularly myself, feel about this kind of conjecture.....
http://www.autumnhillfarm.com/vultures.htm (http://www.autumnhillfarm.com/vultures.html)

That was great!! LOL

[Hocus Focus]

Good Lord... Welcome to Paranoia City...the Sequel.

[misita]

[QUOTE=ahf;2721592]Let me add, Hocus Pocus...this is not some sort of freaking game for anyone's amusement.

People like myself have put the colts they pulled out of their mothers, and taken on second mortages, in this test.

I didn't second mortgage my house but my kids have had nothing to eat but beans and weanies for 3 months and evertime they leave a extra light on, I bite their head off. All my sell horses had to drop 50% (and we're talking champion colt!)to give me the $16,000 + it has taken so far....and that's if nothing else goes wrong!!! At this point I'm wondering what kind of crazy bug bit me to even consider a stallion, let alone sending one to Ohio! And there's no guarantee he'll even pass.

All the stallions are lovely and I hope every one does pass. Good luck to all.:)

Chris
www.hiddenvalleyfarms.net

[TKR]

HF, wouldn't it be a bit classier to just say "I'm sorry, it was a stupid idea"?
PennyG

[Spectrum]

I would love to hear impressions, predictions, on who may be the best in the pack? This years winner? Why you feel that way and let's see how it plays out and compare your predictions against final scores when they do arrive? Anyone care to make an educated guess?

Don't worry. It is not criminal to be wrong, and noone will hold it against you if you are. I would love to have some insight, and others as well.

Uh, for you paranoia-mongers out there who jumped down the OP's throat:

How is the question posed by this thread any different than asking, "Hey, anybody been at Wellington the last couple weeks? Any conjectures on who's going to win the next CDI Grand Prix? Anyone care to make an educated guess?"

The fact that a person can't make a totally innocent inquiry and ask for conjectures about performance, etc, is a statement about how over-blown and over-sensitive people are getting on this site.

I was literally coming here to ask some of the same questions- I'm a mare-owner and am always trying to get a "leg up" information-wise about new up-and-coming stallions. I don't have the opportunity to go these testings myself due to work commitments. So I was excited to read the top of this thread, but utterly disgusted and dismayed by the responses the OP's questions received.

I would suggest those of who who went off the handle re-read the original post with a fresh set of eyes and read what was *actually* written, not what you yourself have written into it. If you really think it merits the nastiness it has received, I guess I will file that information away about which stallion owners I don't plan on working with in the future. Nobody wants to do business with someone who thinks everyone is out to get them.

Spectrum.

[Oakstable]

Question may have been innocent enough but it's a bad idea. Much more at stake than who is going to win a CDI Grand Prix ... there'll be another a chance.

[YankeeLawyer]

I will point out that there is no subjective element that determines what horse wins a GP jumper class. The same cannot be said for inspections, whether held on one day or over 100 days. I don't think the question is as problematic as others do, but I don't have a horse in the test so I think others are better positioned to comment. As for everyone else, I doubt many have even seen the stallions in person, so I have no idea how they could make an educated guess.

[Hocus Focus]

"A guy goes out out on the town for a nonalcoholic beverage. On his way home he is attacked by a mob and after beating him to a pulp, they pick him up, rub salt in his wounds and says.... Now fugga, say yer sorry for walking home."

[buggs95]

I would love to hear the stories about how you decided that this was "the one." :) Best of luck to everyone on the 100 day test! Will there be a video?

[siegi b.]

sid - I beg to differ a little..... Who, but the stallion owners will go to Paxton to watch the progress being made in training the stallion candidates? So what Hocus is asking is to make people that have stallions in the testing come up with predictions on who is going to win????

Reg sometimes has a very unfortunate way of trying to start a "conversation" on a forum. This is one of those times and I can totally understand why it is not appreciated by the folks that have a "horse in the race".

Give it another 50 days and it will become obvious. No need to start a controversial thread just for the sake of getting forum mileage or to satisfy your own curiosity.

[sid]

Siegi b. - I didn't read HP's post that way, perhaps I'm a bit niave. In the spirit of keeping things "upbeat" on this thread, I deleted my prior post.

I did have a lengthy conversation with a gal who has a stallion at the test and she too felt things were going well, the communication between her and, the TD and her stallion's rider is very open. Her horse seems to be relaxed and happy in his training, and I think that's everything all one could hope for at this point...the rest is a waiting game.

So nice to hear this.

[Hocus Focus]

Well I for one appreciate your effort to ikeep this upbeat Sid. I can certainly sympathize with those who feel in any way my intent was negative. I see no crime in admiring nice horses, and that is basically what the spirit of this thread was intended to be. I know when I went to the last test. I was there in awe of the whole event. I felt it an honor to be asked to go. Thank you Kathy St Martin for planting the idea in the first place. I was an outsider and yes I looked at each horse and formed my own opinion. No I did not have all of the facts and that was not what my opinion was based on. It was about what horse I liked in my eyes, and the one I chose to breed to was not necessarily the winner, but "for me" he was the horse that spoke to me, and perhaps in many cases it is gut feeling or instinct that triggers that response. We all certainly have different tastes.

For those of you involved, perhaps a lighter approach to conversation here might relax some of the tensions you may be feeling. To the owners, I respect what you have invested and that part was your decision. Why not find some enjoyment in the process as well? Isn't our connection here about the love of horses?

[Dinah-do]

Any stallion owner needs to have tough skin. The $ and emotional investment is huge. It's like having your child criticized by the rest of the world. Stallion testing is, at least, somewhat private and professional. Wait until your young man hits the show ring. He will be fair game to be ripped apart by any and everyone. And he will be ripped apart - trust me on that. Get used to it.

[misita]

Most of the SO do have thick skins or they wouldn't have gotten as far as they have. Most likely, all the comments regarding most of these guys wasn't all roses the whole while these colts were being raised. Especially in their geeky 1 and 2 year phase.

The problem I have from HF's comments of "educated Guess", is that there really isn't a educated guess available. The people who really know all the horses are the training director, the riders, Hugh bellis-Jones, Ekkehard Bryce, Christianne Schat, and a very few others.....And they're not talking. Most of the SO themselves probably don't know exactly where they think their own stallion will fall into the mix since many of us have not been able to see much of the guys. Most of us have huge distances to travel, limited funds, and other obligations at home.

A couple other SO's and I, sat down and gave each stallion a number in many different catagories. Rideability, conformation, jumping, etc. you get the picture. Then we added up each horse to find out who was best. Guess what??? We disagreed with what the numbers we picked were telling us. We thought one was too low and another too high.

This isn't a situation where you can look at all the stallions, on one occassion, and say, he's the best. These horses have all traveled different distances, arrived with some illness, different ages, different training levels, different strengths and weaknesses, and had different injuries prior to and since beginning the test. You have horses who have been competing in jumping for 2 or 3 years, compared with a 3 year old who has never seen a jumping saddle. What do you do? Pick the horse who clears all the jumps nicely, OR, pick the 3 year old cow hopping around the arena with 3 other riders trying to just 'get him forward??? I wonder...

As for paranoid....I'd like to see anyone send a horse, they've probably already spent more money on him than he may be worth, either birthed him or bought him as a weanling, ship him 2,500 miles, and just turn him over to people they don't know, for probably the most vigorous 100 days of his life, without suffering a little paranoia. Especially with all the talk about the last 2 inspections!!!:( Oh....and remember, your not invited to just call and/or pop in as the mood hits you.

I'm not upset with you HF. :) I'm just as curious as you are about each of these horses. I guess I just don't want to hear a bunch of wild speculation when most people don't have much to base it on. I do think when you have such a diverse group, who have traveled many miles, that they need the 100 days to evaluate who is the most talented in the varied areas. This gives the riders, judges, and inspectors time to closely look at each horse.

All these horses are lovely and very talented. The TD himself told me this was the highest quality group, with the best temperments, that he had ever had.:) He said every horse there has a wonderful temperment. Not one bad one in the bunch!!!

Chris
www.hiddenvalleyfarms.net

[siegi b.]

Now you see Chris, you're taking all the fun out of HF being able to turn this into a train wreck. Great post and truer words have seldom been spoken!

My best wishes to all the stallion owners who have a horse at the 100-day testing!

[misita]

Thank you Siegi. I just don't want wild rumors spread that may travel very far without each horse having the opportunity to 'Strut their stuff.' These are very nice horses and many of them have already had injuries and/or illness which has hindered their training. We only have a little over 30 days left. Then all will be out in the open. Everybody can talk like crazy and I for one, can take it! I'm willing to bet most of the other SO's can too or they wouldn't have made it as far as they have.

Chris
www.hiddenvalleyfarms.net

[sid]

To try to vindicate myself from the post I deleted...what I was trying to say is that speculation on this BB or any other BB is not going to impact the results of the test. So why cannot non SO's speculate without being bannished from the conversation.

There is nothing wrong with non SO's having favorites or speculating. It is not a curse that has been cast upon the "non mentioned" stallion that will affect the test at all.

Regardless of what is said, if the test is TRULY a test, the discussion here will not change the outcome of the testiing.

What's so wrong with non-SO's wagering for fun, if not monetarily, because they have high hopes or "opinions" about the candidates. IMO, the more "excitement" about the testing without such secrecy is better for our wb breeding endeavors in this country. Additionally, the better of SO's will be as far as being transparent in this business to mare owners -- being "allowed" to conjecure freely would remove the perceived "haughtiness" that has caused many well educated and super so's to flee from this bb.

The test is the test...no talk here will change the outcome. IMO, there is nothing wrong in talking about the horses in it.

Okay,,,flame suit on and back into my cave.

[misita]

There is nothing wrong with non-so's speculation about any of the stallions. The only point I'm trying to make is the stallions have barely been seen by anyone and much of the information your speculating about is inaccurate. Many people read this BB and then they go off and tell 10 people who tell 10 people and much of your information is not accuarate. Or you've seen a young horse at his worst and people will take it as fact. That's the only point I'm trying to make. There are very few people who can really give an educated guess, and they're not talking. As I've said, many of the SO's themselves have not seen enough of all the stallions to even judge where their own will fall into the mix.

www.hiddenvalleyfarms.net

[Hocus Focus]

Siegi, lighten up! I too have much respect for what Misita has said, and her well worded kind approach to saying it has far more impact than any spiteful remark ever would.

This thread was not started in malice in the least and as a nonstallion owner, a nontrainer, nonprobreeder, and nonwhateverlabelyouwishtoputuponme, I think I and others like myself have as much right to be part of this group as any other and if our only method to do so is to ask questions and enjoy the sights from the sidelines where is the harm?

[Home Again Farm]

There is nothing wrong with non-so's speculation about any of the stallions. The only point I'm trying to make is the stallions have barely been seen by anyone and much of the information your speculating about is inaccurate. Many people read this BB and then they go off and tell 10 people who tell 10 people and much of your information is not accuarate. Or you've seen a young horse at his worst and people will take it as fact. That's the only point I'm trying to make. There are very few people who can really give an educated guess, and they're not talking. As I've said, many of the SO's themselves have not seen enough of all the stallions to even judge where their own will fall into the mix.

www.hiddenvalleyfarms.net (http://www.hiddenvalleyfarms.net)

Very well thought out and well said IMO. I am certain that HF meant no harm in starting the thread, but it should be pretty clear from the quote above why a well meant, innocent "let's speculate" thread could go the wrong direction and, as misita so clearly points out, could be based on innaccuracies, generalizations, spur of the moment judgments based on few or no facts. That is typical fodder for internet forums and what I like least about them.

I am wishing all involved the very best and waiting to hear the outcome with many fingers and toes crossed for the horses, owners and all participants in the process. :yes:

[misita]

only 24 days left until finals begin.:winkgrin::cry:

www.hiddenvalleyfarms.net

[PineTreeFarm]

only 24 days left until finals begin.:winkgrin::cry:

www.hiddenvalleyfarms.net (http://www.hiddenvalleyfarms.net)

If you are so opposed to discussion of the test and stallions at the test then why the heck are you bumping up this thread?

If the test is being run in an ethical manner then nothing said on this forum should have anything to do with the outcome. I'd really like to hear more about the testing. All of it, the good, bad and ugly.

[talloaks]

Yes, any news from anyone who has visited the stallion testing lately???

[buschkn]

I guess I don't see as much harm in the OPs thread as others, but as Yankee Lawyer said, I don't have a horse there so probably can't say. I don't think this was intended to be a negative thread in the first place, just people saying who do you like of what you've seen, who are your favorites, etc. As HP stated, whomever your favorite is may not necessarily be the winner, but could be the one you like best and that you'll breed to. Nobody was asking for who would be at the bottom!

I went to the midterm and thought that it was a very nice solid group of horses. I didn't go to the last test, but bought Sonesta's DVD, and as everyone else has said, this year's test seems to have a lot of really nice stallions! There certainly weren't any that we thought shouldn't be there. I have 3 favorites for myself, but liked many others as well.

Best of luck in the final days to all the stallions and owners. I am looking forward to watching the final! :)

PS: Anyone know if there are 30D stallions testing??

[talloaks]

Here is the list of the stallions doing the 30 day testing, including a pony. This information came from the ISR/OLDNA website;


Short Test
RASHKA Oldenburg stallion, 2004
Raymeister-Tahka*/Opus
Ken Borden, Jr.
Wilmington, IL
VALIANT SF Dutch stallion, 2002
Iroko-Condina/Cor de la Bryere
Ken Borden, Jr.
Wilmington, IL
VERSACHE Dutch stallion, 2002
Ferro-Olivia/Idocus Crown
Bob & Laurie McLaughlin
Auburn, WA
30 Day Test Ponies

WILDWYCH ECLYPSE Connemara Pony stallion, 2003
Glenormiston Flurry K*-Wildwych Dreamtime/Aran Milano
Max & Lisa Gerdes
Browns Valley, CA

[misita]

If you are so opposed to discussion of the test and stallions at the test then why the heck are you bumping up this thread?

If the test is being run in an ethical manner then nothing said on this forum should have anything to do with the outcome. I'd really like to hear more about the testing. All of it, the good, bad and ugly.

I only bumped it up to let people know we're almost at the finals. Nothing said on this BB will have anything to do with the outcome of the testing. The outcome is determined by the TD and current riders, guest riders, and independent judges. I just thought people would like to know we're getting to the finish.

www.hiddenvalleyfarms.net

[Sassenach]

Here is the list of the stallions doing the 30 day testing, including a pony. This information came from the ISR/OLDNA website;


Short Test
RASHKA Oldenburg stallion, 2004
Raymeister-Tahka*/Opus
Ken Borden, Jr.
Wilmington, IL
VALIANT SF Dutch stallion, 2002
Iroko-Condina/Cor de la Bryere
Ken Borden, Jr.
Wilmington, IL
VERSACHE Dutch stallion, 2002
Ferro-Olivia/Idocus Crown
Bob & Laurie McLaughlin
Auburn, WA
30 Day Test Ponies

WILDWYCH ECLYPSE Connemara Pony stallion, 2003
*Glenormiston Flurry Knox*-Wildwych Dreamtime/Aran Milano
Max & Lisa Gerdes
Browns Valley, CA


Go Eclipse!! :D He's the first Connemara stallion to attempt the test. I hope he does really well :yes:

[StarDoozer]

What everyone needs to remember is that while the stallion testing is wonderful in many aspects... it is not the be all and end all of a horses career.

Our guy (Olivier) finished 8th? 9th? I don't even remember to be honest. But someone apparently forgot to tell him that- now that he's competing international Grand Prix, produced premium offspring in all of the registries he's had offspring presented in (GOV, ISR, RPSI, BWP, West.) and now his oldest offspring (5) are winning under saddle.

The 100 Day isn't an easy time for any stallion owner, but as someone who's lived through it (not as an owner, but as an owner's kid, x2 stallions!) I offer a big hug and the encouragement of "hang in there"- they're still as special as the day you shipped them off... just some of them take a bit more time to show that to the world.

Best of luck to all of you!

[YankeeLawyer]

What everyone needs to remember is that while the stallion testing is wonderful in many aspects... it is not the be all and end all of a horses career.

Our guy (Olivier) finished 8th? 9th? I don't even remember to be honest. But someone apparently forgot to tell him that- now that he's competing international Grand Prix, produced premium offspring in all of the registries he's had offspring presented in (GOV, ISR, RPSI, BWP, West.) and now his oldest offspring (5) are winning under saddle.

The 100 Day isn't an easy time for any stallion owner, but as someone who's lived through it (not as an owner, but as an owner's kid, x2 stallions!) I offer a big hug and the encouragement of "hang in there"- they're still as special as the day you shipped them off... just some of them take a bit more time to show that to the world.

Best of luck to all of you!

I agree. Also, people might remember that Sandro Hit had fairly mediocre test scores, and was kind of a late bloomer (and even then only after being switched from jumpers to dressage as his primary focus).

[eurofoal]

Our guy (Olivier) finished 8th? 9th? I don't even remember to be honest. But someone apparently forgot to tell him that- !

Let's not forget Rubenstein I... they didn't even like him, called him "weedy", and, well, the dynasty went on regardless.

[StarDoozer]

Wasn't it also Voltaire who finished last in his testing?

[TKR]

Those are some of the obvious reasons why the question was obnoxious and unanswerable based on anything anyone who might "guess" or "comment" could know. I can see what the stallion owners would be insulted that anyone would make a guess. There is no base for any opinion. Maybe the question should have been what stallion do you like based on bloodlines or looks? That's one of the few things anyone could ask/answer. JMHO!
PennyG

[Fairview Horse Center]

I took this thread more as a "Who do you pick to win the Kentucky Derby?" type question. Building the hype, etc. The kind of discussion that is good for marketing the 100 Day Test. The 100 Day Test is a marketing type thing for Warmbloods as a whole.

[talloaks]

I took this thread more as a "Who do you pick to win the Kentucky Derby?" type question. Building the hype, etc. The kind of discussion that is good for marketing the 100 Day Test. The 100 Day Test is a marketing type thing for Warmbloods as a whole.

I agree with you completely Darlyn, and now is seems as if it is a private closed testing that only the stallion owners should know about. I think in that respect it is sad, and is taking away from the excitement usally associated with a stallion testing, whether here or abroad. It certainly is a big hype thing in Germany!! I dunno.:confused:

[clint]

I took this thread more as a "Who do you pick to win the Kentucky Derby?" type question. Building the hype, etc. The kind of discussion that is good for marketing the 100 Day Test. The 100 Day Test is a marketing type thing for Warmbloods as a whole.

I disagree with this comparison. When I handicap the Kentucky Derby, I have all the performance records, past performance, etc. I may not have seen the horses in person, but I can certainly find pictures, races, etc. On the other hand, most of the stallions in the 100 d.t. don't even have pictures available. I may or may not be able to get a complete pedigree. The question of who will win the 100 d.t., rightly or wrongly, opens the door for unqualified speculation on a BB, and since very little quantitative information is available, it has the ability to damage a stallion through idle speculation, which is so not fair. I don't think it is good for marketing the 100 d.t., either.

[Fairview Horse Center]

I was not comparing it to handicapping the Derby, but to discussing it on an internet chat board.

Many people discussing the Derby have never seen a photo of the horse, watched it race, nor know its times. That does not stop them from cheering on a favorite, or rooting for an owner that is a friend.

No one is saying anything bad about these stallions.

On the other issue, isn't it great that those famous stallions were not at a testing that the curve put them just a bit lower, and ended up not being approved?

[misita]

I disagree with this comparison. When I handicap the Kentucky Derby, I have all the performance records, past performance, etc. I may not have seen the horses in person, but I can certainly find pictures, races, etc. On the other hand, most of the stallions in the 100 d.t. don't even have pictures available. I may or may not be able to get a complete pedigree. The question of who will win the 100 d.t., rightly or wrongly, opens the door for unqualified speculation on a BB, and since very little quantitative information is available, it has the ability to damage a stallion through idle speculation, which is so not fair. I don't think it is good for marketing the 100 d.t., either.

Thank you Clint. That was very well said. I apologize to anyone I may have upset by starting up this thread again. I didn't realize I was opening Pandora's box again. In hindsight, it was stupid and I'm sorry.:eek: Now I know why some people have caves handy. Excuse me while I go dig myself one.

www.hiddenvalleyfarms.net

[Spectrum]

Wow, we have alot of wet blankets on this site.

[tri]

I agree. People need to lighten up.

There was a poster who said they had 3 favorites. I'd like to hear who they are and why they are your favorites, please!

[YankeeLawyer]

In terms of making the 100 day test more of a marketing tool (both for the participants and the test itself), it might have been nice if the organizers could have done a release with bios and pics of all the participating horses at the start of the test, and maybe a link to a short video clip of each. I don't even know the names of all the stallions participating. It would be neat to see where they come from, if any of the names are familiar from baby shows, which are homebred, etc. By releasing more information early on, perhaps that would make the test less about the actual results and more about simply participating and doing a good job. In other words, a little more transparency early on might permit more of the participants to develop their own fan clubs, so to speak.

[Peg]

I agree Yankee Lawyer= may I pass on your suggestions? Peg

[sid]

YL -- now THAT's a fantastic and very positive idea.

[goodpony]

100 Day Test

AMADEUS
Oldenburg stallion, 2000
Argosy-Raja's Ebony Queen/Rajamon
Paula Brito
Riverton, UT


BRAVO
Oldenburg stallion, 2004
Bugatti Hilltop*-Gauguin's Idea*/Gauguin de Lully
Chris E. Misita
Cloverdale, CA

CONFETTI
Rhineland stallion, 2004
Conteur-Florenz*/Feuerfunke
E. Vanderploeg / D. Kokoshkin
Augusta, MI

FIELDING
Hanoverian stallion, 2004
Fred Astair-Lesley/Lessing
Kate Palmquist
Rockbridge Baths, VA

FUERST IMPRESSION
Hanoverian stallion, 2003
Fürst Heinrich-Roxana/Regazzoni
Angela Barilar
Chestertown, MD


GATSBY
Oldenburg stallion, 1999
Gonzo I-Kalua Song/ Seattle Song xx
Bill Wilton
McMinnville,OR

HIGHLIGHT
Hanoverian stallion, 2004
His Highness-Lauria/Lauries Crusador
Oak Hill Ranch
Folsom, LA

IMPARABLE
Oldenburg stallion, 2004
Impresario*-Pizzaz/Parabol*
Sara Patterson
Boise, ID


RAPTURE R*
Hanoverian stallion, 2001
Rotspon-Damaris/Donnerhall
Roberta & Ken Falk
Lexington, VA

REUBEN SF
Oldenburg stallion, 2004
Regazzoni*-Tequini*/Frohwind*
Jane Sommers
Grass Valley, CA

RICHMOND HL
Hanoverian stallion, 2004
Rotspon-Davinia/Davignon
Lucile Mulky Broadley
Chapel Hill, NC


SARACEN
Oldenburg stallion, 2002
Scimitar-Damoiselle/Davignport
Michael & Jean Bitely
Bruceton Mills, WV


SIR WANABI
Hanoverian stallion, 2002
Santorini-Lily Germaine/Lortzing
Sandra Laprise
Alfred, ONT, CANADA

VINCA
Dutch stallion, 2002
Metall-Perennial/Idocus
Virginia Craley / Ginger Parker
Glen Rock, PA

WAMBERTO
Dutch stallion, 2003
Rousseau-Olinda*/Voltaire
Harmony Sporthorses
Kiowa, CO

WORTHY OPPONENT
Hanoverian stallion, 2003
Waikiki-Hoheit/Hohenstein
Dana Estes
Livermore, CA


Short Test

RASHKA
Oldenburg stallion, 2004
Raymeister-Tahka*/Opus
Ken Borden, Jr.
Wilmington, IL

VALIANT SF
Dutch stallion, 2002
Iroko-Condina/Cor de la Bryere
Ken Borden, Jr.
Wilmington, IL

VERSACHE
Dutch stallion, 2002
Ferro-Olivia/Idocus Crown
Bob & Laurie McLaughlin
Auburn, WA


30 Day Test Ponies

WILDWYCH ECLIPSE
Connemara Pony stallion, 2003
Glenormiston Flurry Knox-Wildwych Dreamtime/Aran Milano
Max & Lisa Gerdes
Browns Valley, CA

This list was taken from the ISR/OLD NA Website. I am not positive this is a complete listing. There is a "Test Book" Coming out in Novemeber.

[Edgar]

In other words, a little more transparency early on might permit more of the participants to develop their own fan clubs, so to speak.

YL - A nice booklet has been printed for spectators/participants at the finals(as has been done in prior tests) and a list of the participating stallions/ owners and Bio's has been on both the ISR and AHS website, transparency is absolutely not a problem.

Your idea is cute, it is just that some stallion owners do not want publicity until they know they have an approved stallion, things are happening so fast in the beginning of the test for them, that often they do not know what they do want, some of the stallions starting the test do not continue, needing a fresh start another test, but here is the logistical problem; You will find a few with many good pictures available but most owners of just licensed stallions just do not have it at the beginning. During the test there is an oportunity to gather info and pictures on all of them and since there is almost no exposure/update until the final day's, that is the most effective time to get it out to all who attend. That is also the time that they look best on the video and in most cases the time an owner would be proud to show off their stallion.

[talloaks]

a list of the participating stallions/ owners and Bio's has been on both the ISR and AHS website,.


Edgar, I have seen the list of stallions and owners but nothing I would consider a Bio. Where are the Bios to be found??:confused:

[Oakstable]

Anyone know who are the official photographers and videographers for the finals?

[goodpony]

Bob Tarr is the official photographer I don't know about video at this point

[Edgar]

Sorry TallOaks you are right.
I did however read the bio's on either one of the websites or in the AHS or ISR magazine, When I have a moment I will look it up, however I am sure it will be in the book at the finals if you are going there.

[talloaks]

Anyone know who are the official photographers and videographers for the finals?

Isn't Sonesta doing a DVD of the testing which will be available for purchase???? She has done so in the past and does a nice job.

[PineTreeFarm]

I'm glad to see that at least one of the stallion owners has chosen to share photos from the mid term.

http://www.autumnhillfarm.com/FieldingMid-Test.html

[YankeeLawyer]

I agree Yankee Lawyer= may I pass on your suggestions? Peg

Please do! I was also thinking that putting together some kind of press kit for each horse would be useful to the stallion owners, as they could use part or all to show prospective clients and for advertising, etc. Perhaps SOs could have the option of submitting their own photos and/or participating in a photo opp day at the outset of the testing.

[YankeeLawyer]

Your idea is cute .

I hope you did not mean that to come across as condescending as it seems ; ). I didn't exactly fall off a turnip truck!

Re the problem of SOs not having pics, etc that are adequate at the outset -- part of my point was to provide those who did not have access to a good photographer or videographer at home or the time/opportunity to pull something together a chance to do so, but at some point early on.

I really don't see that concern about the possibility of not passing is a reason not to offer the service; apparently all the names of the participants and owners are already released to the public anyway. The whole point is to deemphasize the focus on the results and add value to the notion of simply participating. Anyway, perhaps participants should be polled to see what they think about doing something more on the PR front. I am sure there are a variety of opinions among SOs, as there are on this board.

[YankeeLawyer]

I'm glad to see that at least one of the stallion owners has chosen to share photos from the mid term.

http://www.autumnhillfarm.com/FieldingMid-Test.html

I think that is great also. Heck, if I had a stallion competing, I would have photos of him loading on the van to go, checking out his new stall and hay on arrival, etc etc. Okay, maybe not all that, but I would be psyched!

[tri]

"I hope you did not mean that to come across as condescending as it seems ;"

Probably.

You know, if the Stallion Testing is its own separate entity and doesn't have the conflict of interest that Edgar and other officials of the AHS & ISR say it doesn't have, why doesn't it have its own website with the listings, info, photos, etc, instead of everything listed on the AHS / ISR website....you know, since there isn't the conflict of interest and everything.?

[ahf]

No, I don’t think you’d be psyched. You’d be throwing up from the anxiety. Show me a stallion owner who is “psyched” and high-fiving, and I’ll show you someone without a good grasp of the situation.

I think the last thing I’d want would be for my bug-eyed, sensory over-loaded, 3yo colt, all tucked up from having shipped 3000 miles, in a “photo op” session on the first day of the test. (not mine, but there was a good example of this on the first day). They ARE photographed, each one, the first day by the vet and Don Kapper. But these are not “photo op” type pictures. They are to document condition at the start of the test. BIG difference.

Half of the stallions at the test are three year olds. What kind of “bio” do you expect them to have? Mine spent his first three years growing up in a bachelor herd. He was lightly backed in December 06, then pulled out of the field in March and up into the training barn. He’d been under saddle for 5 months. He went to his licensing. That’s it. The “bio” and statistics on these young stallions is being established as we speak. It’s the point of the whole thing.

Most importantly – why would I want to invest yet MORE money in creating promotional material when it’s entirely possible he could be a gelding in 100days? And look completely different? Lord knows, I tried to get promo material at the licensing, but the professional photos were abysmal, and the professional video was worse. And I wish to hell I had those $ back. Not to mention the fact that mine’s also completely changed in his development & muscling. One of the stallions is 2 inches taller than the first day.

When my husband returned from Paris Island in 1968, his own mother walked past him without recognizing him. There is a lot in common between that situation and this one.

I think my response to someone who called the other night about advertising says it all. “I’m sorry,” I said. “I don’t have a stallion.” The caller said she thought I did. I replied “I have a 3yo colt at the 100dt. The results will tell us whether I have a stallion or a gelding.” She quickly hung up.

This test has been hard on Fielding, and it’s been hard on me. I’m not going to live it out online for you, just because you think you “deserve” to know. This is not reality TV, but this online obsession may be a by-product of it. (Interesting Masters thesis proposal.) What you all deserve to know are the scores at the end. All of them. And until those last three days, no bookie in his right mind would take a bet.

What blows my mind was an earlier comment about being a “closed testing”. Any given Friday any one of you could get in a car, or on a plane and go see for yourselves. And if a Friday was so hard, then there was the mid-test on a Saturday. There were exactly TWO CoTHer’s that were not stallion owners there. I guess that’s the difference between folks that want to see it for themselves, and those that want it delivered to them in a morning Extra while sipping a bold Grande.

What’s being published on the websites is actually more than you get in DE for their testings.

I am in the process of working with Bob Tarr, whom I adore, and the testing management for a possible photo op session. Suzanne and I talked at length about it last night. But it’s at the END of the test. No one will have to go to the expense and trouble if they stallion will be singing soprano in just a few days.

If you are a stallion owner who is reading this, and you are interested, I’ll email you when I can get something worked out, or email me with your interest. (Don’t Pm, my box is just about full.)

And that’s my “wet blanket” post for today.

[STF]

Originally Posted by PineTreeFarm http://www.chronicleforums.com/Forum/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.chronicleforums.com/Forum/showthread.php?p=2743055#post2743055)
I'm glad to see that at least one of the stallion owners has chosen to share photos from the mid term.

http://www.autumnhillfarm.com/FieldingMid-Test.html (http://www.autumnhillfarm.com/FieldingMid-Test.html)


Why on earth is THAT person jumping that horse? That rider should be doing cross rails without stirrups for a while before they attempt jumping anything over 2ft with that form and technique!! Mostly on a young horse! Grrrr!
Sorry if this pisses people off , but it takes only a few bad fences, bad distances and jumping up the neck like that on a young horse to ruin confidence.
If that was my stallion, Id be ripping someone head off!
Just the more reason I refuse to do the 100DT with anything in the future!

[ahf]

Sorry STF. She looks like hell in the pictures, but she is doing a GREAT job with Fielding. I feel lucky to have her as the test rider for my stallion. Take a closer look. If she sucked that bad, would he being willing going around with his ears up happily jumping every fence?

[STF]

Im sorry Katie! I did not know that was your guy! You know I would never hurt you or such, as I respect you hightly. I did not even look at whos horse it was.

He must have a super mind, very willing and happy to still be willing to do his job. Kuddos to your big boy, that right there tells me his mind as a baby is a "10!"

[ahf]

It was ill-considered of me to post those pictures on the web, railbirds being what they are.

I'll take them down. They were mostly for friends and family anyway.

I'm not going to have this young woman assassinated when I've been there for 4 training sessions, and still like what I see, and the job she's doing with the stallion.

[tri]

"What kind of “bio” do you expect them to have? "

Well, since the warmblood system is all about tracking bloodlines and proving performance, I would expect stallion prospects to have a sire line who has full brothers and sisters/other closely bred relatives that have done something worthwhile. I would expect for at least some of the stallions to have full siblings that may have done something - you know, like in europe? - I would expect to hear about a very solid, very good dam line and why the dam line is solid and good. I would expect to hear about judges comments when the colt was originally inspected and why the inspection jury thought this particular colt should do the 100 day testing and be a stallion prospect. I would expect to hear why this particular horse should be a marketable candidate for the American sporthorse breeding population. Surely you must have some idea on all of that, don't you? If you don't, then you could just say, "this stallion is for private breeding purposes and not available to the public"

"here were exactly TWO CoTHer’s that were not stallion owners there. I guess that’s the difference between folks that want to see it for themselves, and those that want it delivered to them in a morning Extra while sipping a bold Grande.

What’s being published on the websites is actually more than you get in DE for their testings."

Well, not exactly. In Europe, stallions are routinely discussed, the good AND THE BAD. And it is often in magazines, numerous publications, foal reports and much much more. If you were in Europe, all of your stallions strengths and weaknesses would be openly discussed and KNOWN in the marketplace as information there is much more freely shared than in the U.S.

So, yes, you are in a reality show because that is the whole system of warmblood breeding - testing and evaluating horses and SHARING/PUBLISHING THAT INFORMATION so that EVERYONE knows.

The more this stuff is out in the open, the better the system works.

[ahf]

You do not get it. I do not yet have a stallion. I have a colt at the 100dt. He is not a stallion unless he passes. He hasn't bred mare one.

I certainly can't stop anyone from speculation. I can only point out that no one seems to care enough to see for themselves except for two people on this board. So unless they decide to give the rundown on what they saw, you all are out of luck.

[Edgar]

Originally Posted by Edgar
"Your idea is cute"

Just trying to convey that there are better and more functional way's and timing to get promotional pics and video from these stallions when it is more to their advantage in the last half of the test. I will also tell you that AHF's opinion as posted above is shared by many stallion owners. I have worked with many stallions and owners on a daily bases for many years and what seems like fun entertainment on the net is often a sensitive subject to SO's. A picture or video of their stallion which may not yet be at its best is not very apealing to most SO's and since its a long road to approval, 2-3 months waiting for a good picture op is worth the improved quality and image that goes with it. As you can see also in above posts, pictures often do not tell the whole story.

[Sonesta]

I have just confirmed with AHS and ISR that I will be there to video the finals. As always, if any of the stallion owners want special footage done, just email me directly. I'll two other videographers there with me so we'll have the whole thing pretty well covered.

[ahf]

In my rush to feed in the dark, pack and get to work last Thursday so I could drive up there, I forgot the camcorder.

To watch this colt boldly jump up the bank, one bold stride, and jump off in TEXTBOOK fashion, then then through the woods, out of sight and then see a plume of water as he galloped through the water hazard made me cry. It's a wonderful thing to see your colt enjoying his work, whether he is a soon-to-be gelding or not.

I will once again repeat: A picture does not tell the story. Watching entire process does. That colt would stand on his left ear and spin circles if she asked him too. I asked her on Friday if she wanted to tuck him in her luggage when she went back. She giggled, gave him a scratch and a hug, and said he reminded her very much of her guy back home. And perhaps he would fit in the luggage. Fielding is lucky in his test-rider, and so am I. If he manages to form that kind of bond with subsequent riders, I (and they) are truely blessed.

[Edgar]

Tri:
In Europe, stallions are routinely discussed, the good AND THE BAD. And it is often in magazines, numerous publications, foal reports and much much more.

**They are not second guessing or predicting the test results but obviously discuss the results just like we do here after they are posted.


If you were in Europe, all of your stallions strengths and weaknesses would be openly discussed and KNOWN in the marketplace as information there is much more freely shared than in the U.S.

**The information coming from licensing and testing is just as easily available here, actually better here as several registries post and print results on the web and directories for all licensed/tested stallions and mares and update it every year. For instance the mare scores of all hundreds of mares inspected by the AHS this year are already posted on the website. Try finding those kind of results in Europe from the registries.

As for what is happening before the final result, anybody who cares to visit and see is free to talk about it. In the meanwhile I think it is nice that some have done so

[arnika]

ahf, I'm quite impressed with your guy based on those photos and hope you don't mind if I make one point. His rider looks to me as though she is doing a very nice job with his jumps. Yes, she's a bit ahead of him sometimes but if you check out her hands and the reins they are both nice, gentle and following. No catching him in the mouth or being left behind over the jump, which to my mind is the cardinal sin of riders and much worse than being ahead.:winkgrin:

And by the by, Fielding looks very happy in his job and seems to be handling the fences nicely. Thank you for sharing the photos with us.

[ahf]

Arnika, thank you. She is very UN-German-like in her riding. She lets this colt think for himself, and jump out of stride. She does not dictate every footfall, and I think that is very important to this colt right now. It re-inforces his natural bravery. Yet he will still move up when she asks, or wait when she asks. These riders are on YOUNG horses and their stirrps are long to keep them in the channel. That means you are either going to duck or jump up the neck. (The other option would be to get left, but fortunately that’s not happening). Certainly she could duck, but this colt has very good technique behind. She would likey be knocked out of the tack on the other side if she did that. So up the neck it is.

At the mid-test, there was one triple combination that caused a lot of problems. It was a standard two (so you could trot or canter in, depending), to a short three. There were some pretty scarey twos, and some big-time “ate it!” when three was chosen. Fielding was one of the few that moved up out of the trot, and then waited for the three.

The time will come in his training under saddle, when you’ll be able to tell him 8 strides out that you see the distance. In the meantime, she tries to stay out of his way, she’s there to help him if he makes a mistake, she’s there to insist when he thinks he has an option that he does not. It’s that kind of give and take that has formed the basis this partnership.

I will PM you a link that shows landings. I think it’s even more telling in the sympathetic ride he is getting than what you saw.

In closing, I will say that two riders I admire very much (Olin Armstrong for the hunters, Ian Stilich for the jumpers) have equitation that is, shall we say, questionable when caught by the camera. But I’d have either one on my young horses any time.

[YankeeLawyer]

Originally Posted by Edgar
"Your idea is cute"

Just trying to convey that there are better and more functional way's and timing to get promotional pics and video from these stallions when it is more to their advantage in the last half of the test. I will also tell you that AHF's opinion as posted above is shared by many stallion owners. I have worked with many stallions and owners on a daily bases for many years and what seems like fun entertainment on the net is often a sensitive subject to SO's. A picture or video of their stallion which may not yet be at its best is not very apealing to most SO's and since its a long road to approval, 2-3 months waiting for a good picture op is worth the improved quality and image that goes with it. As you can see also in above posts, pictures often do not tell the whole story.

Fair enough.

[YankeeLawyer]

You do not get it. I do not yet have a stallion. I have a colt at the 100dt. He is not a stallion unless he passes. He hasn't bred mare one.

I certainly can't stop anyone from speculation. I can only point out that no one seems to care enough to see for themselves except for two people on this board. So unless they decide to give the rundown on what they saw, you all are out of luck.

Wow, sorry. Since I work 100 hours a week and have youngsters of my own I am unable to fly to watch the testing mid-term. And I am likewise opposed to baseless speculation. But I have no idea why you would freak out at a suggestion that there be more PR opportunities for those that might be interested in that. [By the way, I absolutely do "get it." My family has in the past owned stallions that are household names. We just have different perspectives on things, apparently.]

[STF]

YL - dont fret.
One thing I know for sure, is that all of us have different thoughts on all of this and its not worth the arguement.
The day is to short.......

[ahf]

The “get it” was not directed at you Yankee Lawyer. And you know that.

So I’m “freaking out” because I illustrated why your idea of a PR opportunity at the start of the test might be ill-advised?

What ev!

[YankeeLawyer]

The “get it” was not directed at you Yankee Lawyer. And you know that.

So I’m “freaking out” because I illustrated why your idea of a PR opportunity at the start of the test might be ill-advised?

What ev!

Really, I thought it was directed at me given that it was communicated in the context of commenting on the suggestion I made. I think the response was a little dramatic, if not "freaking out," but you are entitled to your opinion, obviously. Anyway, my intent was only to be supportive of those who have stallions there. I certainly did not mean to upset anyone.

[misita]

I am very hesitant to do this and hope I'm not making a huge mistake but I want to clear up this misunderstanding about being secretive

So here is Bravo's Bio. There is nothing to hide as everything is already public information anyway. But I don't want people to think Bravo or me has anything to hide. And....he still may end up a (very expensive) gelding in 3 weeks. The only news I have from the 100 day test is that Bravo was ill for the 1st 40 days with hay allergies and God only knows what else, and that he managed to make it through the mid-terms without throwing anybody off. He had never been jumped under saddle with or without a rider until the 100 day. Helmut has done a superb job with him. I was very impressed with both of them.

Bravo- Born 5/24/04-Oldenburg stallion by Bugatti Hilltop/Bergamon/Rubenstien and O/O Gauguins' Idea/Gauguin de Lully (a Olympian)/Ideal. Bravo was Gauguin's Idea's first foal. Bugatti Hilltop has much writen about him. Too much to post here. www.hilltopfarminc.com

Bravo was National Champion foal, o/o approx 500, for ISR/OLD NA in 2004 with scores of 8.8, 9,9, and final 8.9. He was formally called a stallion prospect by Ekkhard Bryce who said he must be kept intact. I bought him as a weanling.

Bravo was shown at Rancho Murietta in 2005 as a yearling. He won the yearling colts class with 75.9% then again the next day with 78.9%.

He was shown at LAEC in 2005 winning the yearling colts class with 73% Then he was Res Champ for the Oldenburg 2 and under with 76.2%. My 4 month old, Pablo/Pilot o/o Fuerst Honour/Fuerst Ramses colt, won that class with a 77.1%.

He was shown as a 3 year old colt at the Shelly Siegel show winning the 3 yr. old colts class and Res. Champ for the Championship class. I can't remember the scores. I can find them if anybody really cares.

Then he passed his stallion testing at Starr Vaughn Equestrian Center on June 12th and we were told we must be in Ohio by Aug. 3rd for the 100 day.
There was no choice. Either we go or we have no provisional license. It seems ISR/Old NA has tightened their requirements. You may pursue the lifetime license through performance but none of your foals may be reg. until you fulfill the performance requirements. And...if anything happens to your stallion in the meantime, you are out of luck. That is that! No registered babies. So he was off to Ohio at the age of 3 years, 2 months.

Bravo has 4 test foals on the ground. 3 were named premium and 1 was the Grand Champion foal, of the Lighacres Inspection, named a stallion prospect by the breeding director Christianne, who said that "Brando must not be gelded!"

You can see more pictures and about Bravo on my web-site. You can see all his 2007 foal crop on the news page. Bravo has bred 5 of my mares for 2008 babies. You can see the mares he bred on the mares page.

So that is Bravo. Everything about him and what he's done. There are no photos from the mid-terms that are viewable. AHF's of Fielding are lovely, I thought. I wish I did have some photos that nice of Bravo at the mid-terms and I would have put them up too.

There is nothing to hide. Nobody is hiding anything. It's just that I have no information about the 100 day. I have NO IDEA if Bravo will pass and if he does, Where he will finish.:confused: I ask the TD how he's doing and he tells me, okay. Not great, not horrible.

www.hiddenvalleyfarms.net

[Fairview Horse Center]

Then he passed his stallion testing at Starr Vaughn Equestrian Center on June 12th and we were told we must be in Ohio by Aug. 3rd for the 100 day.
There was no choice. Either we go or we have no provisional license.

Thanks Misita. It is nice to learn about the boys. What would have happened if you didn't present him until a year with no 100 Day Test - like next year? What if there was not one for 2 or even 3 years. No babies able to be registered during that period?

[misita]

No babies could be registered during that period. I did the 4 test babies and I had sold all 4 before the stallion inspection. I sold them for good prices because there was no guarantee Bravo would pass the test. But I had told the buyers that if he did pass his stallion test that their babies would be registered. I was thinking the worst that would happen is he could get his conditional license and then we would have to do the stallion inspection every year, for the conditional license, until he could do the 100 day or fulfill performance requirements. But ISR/OLD NA had changed their requirements. Stallions must make the next 100 day after their stallion approval or none of their foals get reg. So had I missed the 100 day, none of Bravos 2007 or 2008 babies would be reg. By going, they all got reg. If stallions choose the performance route, none of their babies are reg. until they fulfill those requirements. The performance requirements have also gotten tougher and if anything happens to the stallion while he's working at those, None of his offspring are reg.

www.hiddenvalleyfarms.net

[Fairview Horse Center]

So if you had waited to present him in 2008, the 2008 foals would be registered or not? Sorry, just trying to understand their rules. Anyone know how that works for the HAN, GOV, Belgian WB, etc?

[Edgar]

Fairview, your answer is that they would be registered in an off year. A certified breeding license is given when a minimum score requirement is met and a down payment of $1000 is paid for the next available test. The license stretches a maximum of 2 years. She would not be able to register the foals from last or this year in her case, however most stallions do not breed til after their succesful performance test anyway but that is an owners choice.

[Hocus Focus]

Good luck in the final.

I could comment on much that has been said here but for what reason, I ask. All that has been said we have heard many times before except regarding the horses, I perhaps know less than I did before.

Only two of the horses have I met at all. ...Rapture R from a breed show last year, who I expect will score very highly on rideability and dressage. He is quite special in many ways. and although I may not have every tidbit of information on what he is about, I do know what I saw impressed me a great deal. When the entries were in for the cancelled test, I believe Rapture R had the distinction of being the only horse entered. I am glad to see he is among the boys this year.

So... if you wish to put it as a horse race, just simply because I have seen and loved him, I am placing all bets on him and although he may not win, he will be well worth watching. All the best to the rest of the group as well. Enjoy what you can of the moment. I enjoyed it when I went.

"They have an event here in the Maritimes called the Cup and Saucer Race which is part of Old Home Week Celebration on Prince Edward Island. Lots of hooplah!!! Everyone who is anyone attends!!!! It is a harness race. Each horse is represented by a lovely young lady, a daughter of someone from the surrounding area who is in her prime and radiant with youthful beauty, and each arrives in a limo for the event and is escorted to her seat. As the race time nears the crowd is filled with excitement. The girls are all stunning! The race is on! Each young lady sports the number of her horse entry. When the race is complete, the queen of the Cup and Saucer is decided by the horse who wins the race. Something to be said for this type of competition, and yes what has eggs to do with apples.... nothing of course? But then again, who really cares?"

[STF]

Does Ken have any horses there this year??????????

[talloaks]

Does Ken have any horses there this year??????????

Yes, Ken has 2 stallions in the 30 day test.

[charger]

This has been a really interesting thread to follow and the whole stallion testing issue fascinates me. Could someone please explain to me how they adjust, if at all, based upon the level of training a horse currently has, his age, his physical development? And as a stallion owner, how do you judge the best time to send them through the testing, realizing that they must be approved before foals can be registered? If you have a 16.3h 3yr old that is obviously still growing, a horse that many wouldn't push until he is at least 4, are they trained in a different manner than say a 4 yr old with a year of training behind him? What about that growing 3 yr old over fences......is there any worry as to him being pushed too hard to early? What is the average age of a stallion going through? If your stallion test falls on the 3 yr old yr and you know that your horse probably isn't ready for that kind of training, do you wait another 2 yrs (assuming it is 2 yrs apart) and put him through at 5 or do you just go ahead and get it done?

I know this is a bit off the original topic, but as things are discussed about what goes on at the testing, it would be nice to have a clearer understanding of how the whole thing is put together.

[tri]

"Anyone know how that works for the HAN, GOV, Belgian WB, etc?"

In Europe and for the other U.S. offshoots here too. Also, is it an option to do the Canadian test? Does the AHS & ISR accept that test?

[Edgar]

Charger , to answer some of your questions as a breeder and stallion owner. First off there is always a concern for doing too much too early but there is also a difference between a normal young gelding/mare and a stallion. Because stallions have a high testosterone level their growth plates close sooner in life and their physical maturity is sooner. I find a 3 yr old stallion still very young and I would say that if you went to the licensing in Europe it will blow your mind how mature some of these 2 yr olds look.

So that being said , it is my personal preference to get a stallion licensed in an off year so he can do the test the following year. I take the 5 point penalty anytime having a more mature stallion go through it. When we had a stallion licensed as a 3 yr old on a test year we put him through the test as a 5 yr old. They are individuals and some are very mature at 3 mentally as well, the decision is made by the stallion in our case. It is a balance between how soon does he need to breed and can he do the test well enough / stay sound or will he do much better later. I look at what is the best picture 10 years down the road because rushing and short cuts do not work well with horses long term. (or with any type of investment)

[misita]

Edgar is right. Bravo is one who would have done better as a 5 year old. But I had already bred him so he must go to the testing for his babies. He is my first stallion and in hind sight, I would do it Edgar's way.

I did breed Bravo early mostly to see what he would produce. It had a huge influence on if I would keep Bravo a stallion or geld him. I am not a horse trainer, and especially not a stallion trainer. So I needed much help with him which is very expensive. If his offspring had not come out so well, he would be a gelding, and I would have saved all the money for stallion training and the 100 day. So for me, it was important to do the breedings to see if he would even remain a stallion. There are some extremely nice stallions. But they may not put down babies as nice as themselves. I needed to know if Bravo was one of those. I had planned to send him to the 100 day in 2008. But they cancelled the test so all my plans had to change.

If I ever do this again, I would plan for the colt to go at 4 years or older. I think this is very hard on 3 year olds. I would still do a few test babies but I would sell them not registered.

www.hiddenvalleyfarms.net

[talloaks]

Misita, thank you so much for all of the information on your stallion Bravo. He certainly had terrific high scores at his foal inspection which is wonderful and has done so well the following years. He is a real looker too!! Your farm is to die for!! I have always loved California but never got to make the move.:no: Good luck with your boy and we will be pulling for you that he scores well and is an approved stallion in just a few more days!!!:winkgrin:

[Hocus Focus]

Nicely put Talloaks. All the best to all involved truly.

PS... I support the 100 day test stallions! His name is Ishaiah! He is in my profile!

[YankeeLawyer]

Misita, thank you so much for all of the information on your stallion Bravo. He certainly had terrific high scores at his foal inspection which is wonderful and has done so well the following years. He is a real looker too!! Your farm is to die for!! I have always loved California but never got to make the move.:no: Good luck with your boy and we will be pulling for you that he scores well and is an approved stallion in just a few more days!!!:winkgrin:

Ditto : )

[ElizaS]

Do any of you who have visited your stallions know if we're allowed to talk with the riders after the test is over? I would love to speak with the rider who has been working with Richmond, but I won't be at the final testing.

[Sonesta]

Of COURSE you can talk to the riders! They are wonderful folks. I usually take all the riders out for drinks on Sat night after the finals at the hotel bar. Join us and talk away!

[Touchstone Farm]

ahf, I'm sure you didn't mean this the way it sounded:

"She is very UN-German-like in her riding. She lets this colt think for himself, and jump out of stride. She does not dictate every footfall, and I think that is very important to this colt right now."

Either that, or you've just been exposed to some very bad riding, period, and it could be German, Bosnian, or (fill in the name of the country). :-)

Anyway, back on topic...

[Hocus Focus]

Rapture R... How is that boy doin?

[carosello]

"Anyone know how that works for the HAN, GOV, Belgian WB, etc?"

In Europe and for the other U.S. offshoots here too. Also, is it an option to do the Canadian test? Does the AHS & ISR accept that test?


I believe for the GOV they do no accept anything less then 100 days (either a straight 100 days or 30 and then 70) so the Canada test would be out as it is not 100 days total.

[misita]

The GOV do not accept the American 30 day test but will accept the RPSI 30 day. They would like a minimum score of no less than 100 points. They need 6 generations of approved bloodlines. TB's are allowed if approved. They do feel the 70 day test is sufficient and don't know why we're still doing the 100 day. Apparently, we're the only one's still doing the 100 day.

www.hiddenvalleyfarms.net

[tri]

I thought the Oldenburgs had gotten away from 100 days as well.

[misita]

The Oldenburgs have gotten away from the 100 day but they will allow horses from the American 100 day, who pass with a minimum 100 points, to be presented for breeding approval if they meet the 6 generation approved pedigree requirements. Holly said they do not accept the American 30 day.

www.hiddenvalleyfarms.net

[Fairview Horse Center]

The Oldenburgs have gotten away from the 100 day but they will allow horses from the American 100 day, who pass with a minimum 100 points.

What is their score requirement in Germany? I thougt it was 80? Has that changed?

[Sonesta]

Last testing, GOV was accepting a 100 day test score of at least 80. When did they change the score requirement?

[Tiki]

From what I understand the US is staying with the 100 Day Test because our stallions coming to the test are not as well prepared as they are in Europe - the fact that their horses are better prepared is why they (i.e. the Europeans) don't need the whole 100 days.

[misita]

Last testing, GOV was accepting a 100 day test score of at least 80. When did they change the score requirement?

I don't know when they changed them. I spoke with Holly of GOV this morning and she said they'd like to see a minimum 100 score. But maybe that is for horses that are not registered with the GOV. The AHS accept scores of 90 but if your horse has less than 50% hann blood they must pass with 120 or above. Maybe GOV horses only need 80%. I was asking specifically about my horse who is not registered with the GOV and is 25% Oldenburg, 25% Swedish, and 50% Han.

www.hiddenvalleyfarms.net

[baywithchrome2]

The AHS accept scores of 90 but if your horse has less than 50% hann blood they must pass with 120 or above.

Wowzers!! :eek::eek: What's the thinking behind that???

[goodpony]

For Interested Pony Breeders, the Weser Ems (Pony Divison of the GOV) does accept the American version of the Thirty Day Test for Pony Stallions.


Sorry to be off topic...good luck to all of the big boys attending this years one hundred day test.

[Tiki]

Ponies only do a 30 Day Test in Europe anyway.

[tri]

The AHS has that 50% hanoverian "blood" requirement. They do not have that requirement in Hanover Germany - you can have a horse with little or no hanoverian "blood" in them and still be approved. From the AHS newsletter, the lower mare book is around 70% TB mares. Have to keep those german mares coming into the country afterall or there wouldn't be much Hanover about American Hanoverians.

[sid]

Tiki - Years ago I was told by the inspectors for the RPSI, that the 70 day test was instituted because they felt the 100 day test was unnecessarily strenous for the younger stallions... nothing to do with preparation, more about age.

In fact, when I had decided I wanted to send Argosy back to Germany to be tested as a 5 year old (because of problems encountered here timing and otherwise), I was told they no longer held 100 day tests and he could not attend the 70 day test because he was too old.

[DownYonder]

Tiki - Years ago I was told by the inspectors for the RPSI, that the 70 day test was instituted because they felt the 100 day test was unnecessarily strenous for the younger stallions... nothing to do with preparation, more about age.

In fact, when I had decided I wanted to send Argosy back to Germany to be tested as a 5 year old (because of problems encountered here timing and otherwise), I was told they no longer held 100 day tests and he could not attend the 70 day test because he was too old.

I was told the same thing by Evelyn Vollstedt, as well as Paul Schockemoehle's general manager. Many stallion owners were concerned about the toll the 100 DT was taking on the young stallions, esp. the very popular ones who had bred a lot earlier in the year. They demanded changes, so the 30/70 program was developed. They also accept a 30DT followed by qualification for the Bundeschampionat, as well as the regular competition route.

Susan, I don't know why they told you Argosy was too old for the 70DT - there are older stallions at those testings every year in Germany. At Sure Hit's test, there were a BUNCH of 5, 6 and 7 y/o's!

[misita]

Is Evelyn still inspecting for GOV? I don't see her as one of the inspectors on their site. Has she moved into a differnent position? Or just moved on?

www.hiddenvalleyfarms.net

[DownYonder]

Evelyn left the Verband at the end of 2005 to help her husband with his growing business.

[tri]

"Many stallion owners were concerned about the toll the 100 DT was taking on the young stallions, esp. the very popular ones who had bred a lot earlier in the year. They demanded changes, so the 30/70 program was developed. They also accept a 30DT followed by qualification for the Bundeschampionat, as well as the regular competition route."

I wonder if those stallion owners received the nasty, derisive, condescending attitudes directed at them by other european breeders & registry officials like some of the american breeders & registry officials here have done against those of us who have demanded changes for our testing?

[DownYonder]

I doubt it. The German stallion owners are (for the most part) men - not "gossiping housewives" like N.A. stallion owners. :lol:

Relax, folks - it's a joke. That is how the head of one of the registries running the N.A. 100DT referred to people who complained about problems at the last testing.

[sid]

DY, that's what I was told by the GOV (where Argosy held his breeding license at that time) -- but then, it was the first year they were doing 70 day tests and stopped the 100DT, so maybe that was the "rule" at that time. Even when Argosy passed his licensing presentation with the RPSI at age 6, I was told the same thing -- he'd have to do a 100DT here, because of his age.

Water under the bridge (he's now 12!), but those sure were confusing times for many of us.

[Edgar]

I was told the same thing by Evelyn Vollstedt, as well as Paul Schockemoehle's general manager. Many stallion owners were concerned about the toll the 100 DT was taking on the young stallions....

That was a problem in Germany because in order to be allowed to breed they had to ride hundreds of 2 yr olds and go through the 100 day test as barely 3 yr olds. The 30 day test allowes such a young horse to breed after a smaller 30 day strain on their system followed by a 70 day test at a later age or performance record for full approval. In retrospect the registries do not like the 30 day test because they found it pretty meaningless.
In the US no stallions are approved as 2 yr olds, the timing is a bit different.

[ahf]

I have done an abrupt “about-face” in my stance regarding the 70 vs 100dt. (Edgar, you were right, I was wrong)

I used to be a proponent of establishing a 70dt. Not anymore.

There is no way to get a good and thorough evaluation of a three year old stallion in 70 days, I don’t care how well they are prepared, there is too much for them to accomplish in 70 and do it well (unless you start in true work as a late 2yo, and I don’t mean just getting them backed) I now value the Adelheidsdorf state stallion test at 300 days even more.

The other thing I understand better now is WHY there seems to be such a situation in Europe with doping the young stallions – to try to get as much of an edge as you can for a 70dt. (And don’t tell me this is a rumor – the doping issue has been OPENLY acknowledged as a problem by several publications, including the VhW.)

I doubt I’d ever send a 3yo again, not to a 70 or 100dt. I did not have an appreciation for this until I was completely engaged in the process.

I think the 30dt would be pretty useless as well, and imagine that it’s done NOTHING to stop the extensive drilling of 2yo in europe, and because they no longer even get a limited license until they pass the 30dt (which they would want done early, early, early) might be making the situation worse.

I guess, in a perfect world, we wouldn’t test 3yo stallions. But the delay to the marketplace would not allow that to happen.

[buschkn]

I think the testing seems like it would be very hard on a 3yo and don't think I would send one through myself at that age now that I've seen a little more. This seems to be confirmed so far by our two SOs here- misita and ahf- who have 3yos in the test. It's kind of like our version of the racehorse problem- have to get them into/through the system early enough to hopefully not do TOO much damage, get the information you need, and still be financially viable. Hard to find the right balance I am sure. It is good that everyone can discuss it and constantly try to improve and change the process to better serve both the horses and the breeding industry.

[Hocus Focus]

Now that the dust has settled.... I for one would love to know how it all played out. You can either post here or if you like...send me a private note. Just really wondering how Rapture R did in the final, and of course all the rest.

[YankeeLawyer]

Now that the dust has settled.... I for one would love to know how it all played out. You can either post here or if you like...send me a private note. Just really wondering how Rapture R did in the final, and of course all the rest.

HF, the results are discussed on the SPT Test thread. They were as follows (and are available on the AHS website):

1) Wamberto (Dutch). 158.78
2) Worthy Opponent (Hannoverian). 135.52
3) Rapture R (Hanoverian) 133.53
4) Confetti (Rheinlander). 128.77
5) Fielding (Hanoverian). 125.31
6) Furst Impression (Hanoverian). 122.23
7) Richmond HL (Hanoverian). 119.69
8) Saracen (Oldenburg). 118.83
9) Sir Wanabi (Hanoverian). 117.25
10) Highight (Hanoverian). 115.20
11) Vinca (Dutch). 111.30
12) Bravo (Oldenburg). 101.06
13) Amadeus (Oldenburg). 94.11
14) Imparable (Oldenburg). 91.28
15) Gatsby (Oldenburg). 86.19
16) Reuben SF (Oldenburg). 85.22

All the stallions' scores were high enough to be accepted into their respective registries (AHS requires 90 or higher; Oldenburg requires 80 or higher). Two stallions were injured and I don't think they were scored (I think they were in the 30-day test).

[Hocus Focus]

Thank you. I think Rapture R did quite well...and that is my two cents from someone who was simply cheering quietly from the sidlelines.

[ise@ssl]

All of the stallions at the testing were scored, including the 4 in the 30 day test. 1 stallion did not take part in the final test due to a minor injury and 2 did not do the Cross Country. The process allows that the average of all the other stallions becomes the score for any stallion that is didn't go. The stallions who did not participate did come into the final presentation and jogged sound.

FYI - the highest scoring stallion of ALL the stallions was RASHKA by Raymeister out of an Opus mare owned and bred by Ken Borden with a tremendous scores of 175+ for dressage and 153+ for jumping. He was just fabulous to watch.

[YankeeLawyer]

Thank you. I think Rapture R did quite well...and that is my two cents from someone who was simply cheering quietly from the sidlelines.

That is what several people told me also. He is a nice boy!

[Black Forest]

I have done an abrupt “about-face” in my stance regarding the 70 vs 100dt. (Edgar, you were right, I was wrong)

I used to be a proponent of establishing a 70dt. Not anymore.

There is no way to get a good and thorough evaluation of a three year old stallion in 70 days, I don’t care how well they are prepared, there is too much for them to accomplish in 70 and do it well (unless you start in true work as a late 2yo, and I don’t mean just getting them backed) I now value the Adelheidsdorf state stallion test at 300 days even more.

*snip*

I guess, in a perfect world, we wouldn’t test 3yo stallions. But the delay to the marketplace would not allow that to happen.

Ah but here in Germany you can take your colt to approval in the spring when he is or is about to turn 3, then aim for the 30 day test in the autumn when he will be 3 and a half or near 3 and a half, and the 30 day test does not include jumping under saddle, then you can let him mature and take him for his 70 day test when he is 4 or even 5 (if you feel that his extra maturity as a 5 year old will make up for the 5 % handicap)

This means you really do not need to have him backed until he is truly 3 years old, nor do does he have to be jumping under saddle until he is 4. There is no NEED to send a 3 year old for 70 day testing as a passed 30 day test puts the stallion into stallion book 1 for at least one year, usually 2, before he needs to do his 70 day test *OR* qualifies for the Bundeschampionat (this would mean he would not have to do a 70 day test at all for permanent approval)

Because we have so many 30 and 70 day tests every year, plus approvals in spring and autumn no-one *HAS* to send any stallion to any test in the spring!

Oh and a stallion can go for performance testing at ANY age - but older stallions have to do the performance test BEFORE they can be presented for licencing / approval.

You also do not HAVE to send a stallion for any type of performance test at 3 if you do not want to - they can go at 4 years of age straight to the 70 day test - it is purely commercial considerations that influence the decision -ie people who want or need to breed with a 3 year old colt have little choice if they want full papers for the foals.

Personally I find that the extra maturity of a talented and good young entire is worth sacrificing that extra year so he can come out with a (probably / hopefully) better / higher end result simply because the difference between being 3 or 4 is considerable.

Obviously in the USA with only one test and not every year - combied with the considerably higher costs all round means the system is not as easily transferrable.

To me (personally) would make very little difference if I leave a colt out in the field with his pals for an extra 6 months and then take it nice and easy with his education - in the overall scheme of things - ie the hope that a stallion may, if I a lucky, have a long career under saddle, in competition, etc - a year here or there is not all that relevant