swift end for catastrophically injured horse?

[MySparrow]

I don't want to go into details, it's just too painful. A friend's horse was catastrophically injured in the pasture yesterday. I was called to help while we waited for the vet. It took the vet considerably more than hour to arrive -- he is half an hour away, and had a horse under anaesthesia when the call came in. During that time I could only comfort and calm the horse as best I could.

I kept thinking that if I had a gun and knew how to use it, or some kind of lethal injection, I could perhaps relieve his suffering sooner. Having nothing, I could only stand with the brave boy and give him my heart. I hoped he would bleed out or shock out, but he had too much spirit and will, and resisted death.

How do other people handle this?

[monstrpony]

I could only stand with the brave boy and give him my heart.

How do other people handle this?

Sounds like you did the best that could be done under the circumstances.

I don't know how people manage this kind of thing, but somehow they do. I think it's because they're Good Horsepeople.

{{{{Hugs}}}} to you and everyone involved yesterday.

[ReeseTheBeast]

Oh good God, I'm so sorry you and your friend (and the horse) went through this... My prayers are with all of you that this situation does not haunt you.

As far as your question, I unfortunately don't have any answers; but I hope others will be able to contribute... I'd like to know myself what to do in a situation like that where firearms are not available.

Many years ago a school horse at the farm I used to ride at had a catastrophic accident involving his leg and it took the vet over an hour to get there to euthanize the poor boy. It still upsets me to this day, knowing how much he suffered and that nobody could do anything for him. :no:

So sorry.

[thumbsontop]

So sorry you had to deal with this. Your friend is very fortunate she had you there for support.

I've often wondered the same thing...if maybe there is something I have on hand that I could attempt to overdose, without the risk of causing some kind of even worse reaction.

It would be a good follow up question for the vet. You may encounter some resistance though.

[sunridge1]

I've been in that circumstance twice, a well placed bullet works better than standard euthanasia in my opinion. BTW I could not do the deed the myself. I don't know if I ever could.
Mary

[Sugarbrook]

This is a situation that i have nightmares over. I don't know what I would do. I hope some post their responses and tell us what they did.

[clint]

I'm so sorry; that is such a hard thing to go through. Years ago I had a mare suffer a catastrophic pasture incident with her leg. Fortunately the vet wasn't too far away, but I gave her banamine while waiting, and it worked quickly enough that she actually ate a little, much to my amazement.

[J Swan]

I have had to use a firearm.

BUT

I know how to safely handle firearms.

I have also held injured deer down (very dangerous - be careful) while another person cut its jugular.

eta - not on a horse - on other animals.

[cuonxc]

had something like this happen....just gave the horse as much ace as the barn had....she seemed out of it until the vet could arrive

[Cielo Azure]

But the fact is...I won't keep a gun in my house. Nephew and a good friend suicided with guns. I have way to many people (family and friends) in and out of my farm and people staying here while we are on the road showing.

But I have 16 horses here and last spring we did have to put a foal down and waited three or four hours for a vet to come out. I had to phone every vet in a 50 mile radius to find someone who would come out to my farm on a Sat morning. It was really stressful. If I hadn't found this one vet, no one would have come until monday morning and I would have had to euthanize her myself. I don't have a vet that would hand me a syringe of pentobarb in case of emergencies.

So, the nitty gritty (what would work?):

Now, what combination of drugs would work? I have thought of getting the book "Final Exit" and using that as an aid to find combinations of drugs that are commonly available. But has anyone on this forum used a combo of over the counter or vet perscribed drugs successfully? What works or would work painlessly and quickly?

Here is my thought: If a horse was down, one could administer a large dose of sedative and painreliever given orally or IV (such as ace, histamines, etc) and then supply a source of CO2 or carbon monocide to actually kill (contractor cleanup Bag or thick garbage bag tied around the head with baling twine. Then a source of carbon monocide [gas motor out-take with tube into bag] or dry ice in bag) administered. As long as the source of the gas poisioning was correctly affixedm it should work well, yes? Is that plan just way too messy?

What would other types of euthanasia could be used on a big horse?

[LAZ]

We just had this happen--the horse fractured his knee while galloping around the pasture. I called the vet and then the owner, it took the vet an hour to get there, it seemed like 5 hours.

I did not leave the horse to get any meds, but I did send someone to get my ice boots and ice to at least keep some of the pain down while waiting.

He stood there patiently on 3 legs, actually ate a little grass and some carrots.

[RegentLion]

I have NEVER (thank GOD) been in this situation but if I were I think I'd ace or banamine the horse as much as I felt safe doing and waiting for the vet. I had a friend in a similiar situation and I am not sure what they did to make the horse comfortable--but he was in shock and well on his way to bleeding out when the vet arrived.

I know many people are proponents of a well placed bullet but I've seen a very experienced person (butcher that came out to the farm) place a bullet into a pig's head and miss the brain. It did not kill the pig, and that was very ugly.

I've also heard horror stories about that same type of thing happening with horses (missing the brain). So if you chose to learn to use a gun of some type, you must be very clear on how to use it, and very comfortable in doing so---my husband says if you're not comfortable shooting and shooting to kill, you will probably miss.

[The Pie]

oh crap, I'm so sorry for you and your friend. I've been in this situation twice. The 1st one was horrible but I managed to keep my composure until I got home. The 2nd one, we figured the horse severed the nerves in his leg, as he seemed quite comfortable and ate all the treats I had in my pocket until the vet finally arrived. Both still make me cry when I think about it and it was years ago. I don't know that I would have been able to use a gun in either case though. hugs to you, your friend and the poor horse.

[ReeseTheBeast]

Cielo- I would think that bagging a horse's head (even if heavily sedated) could be a really dangerous thing... I would worry that a horse would fight or freak out with something like that, and then you would have a mortally injured, terrified 1200-lb. freight train staggering around that can't see where it is going.

I'm sure it depends on the situation and injury, but when Reese had to get stitches last year the vet had to tranq him 3 times before he'd stop trying to kick while being sewn.... I don't think I'd trust a heavy dose of OTC-available tranqs to immobilize a horse in that type of context.

I'm definitely not trying to debunk your idea!!! I'm just speaking from what I've seen with my own horse. :yes:

ETA: Isn't it contraindicated to give something like ACE to a horse who is already "riled up"? I think I remember hearing that some horses will have the opposite reaction if given a tranquililzer if they are already in a stressful situation... just curious, as the answer to that question could be important in decision making if any of us (God forbid) were to be in a situation like that...

[War Admiral]

This is a situation that gives me nightmares as well. Every so often I am really reminded that I *need* to learn how to use a gun.

At my current barn we have several folks who do know how to use one, as do most of the cattle-farming neighbors, but I would still feel way more comfortable being able to end a horse's life quickly and humanely MYSELF if need be.

Jingles and prayers for you, MySparrow.

[J Swan]

Now, what combination of drugs would work? I have thought of getting the book "Final Exit" and using that as an aid to find combinations of drugs that are commonly available. But has anyone on this forum used a combo of over the counter or vet perscribed drugs successfully? What works or would work painlessly and quickly?

Here is my thought: If a horse was down, one could administer a large dose of sedative and painreliever given orally or IV (such as ace, histamines, etc) and then supply a source of CO2 or carbon monocide to actually kill (contractor cleanup Bag or thick garbage bag tied around the head with baling twine. Then a source of carbon monocide [gas motor out-take with tube into bag] or dry ice in bag) administered. As long as the source of the gas poisioning was correctly affixedm it should work well, yes? Is that plan just way too messy?

What would other types of euthanasia could be used on a big horse?

A firearm, captive bolt or exsanguination. UC Davis has a publication on acceptable methods of euthanasia for equines and how to perform it. Suffocation and gassing do not appear on that publication.

The method you describe above would be an absolutely horrible gruesome death for any living creature.

Know how to end suffering humanely or don't even try it. Even properly performed euthanasia administered by a veterinarian can go horribly wrong.

[deltawave]

This is a terrible situation to be in, and it's perfectly appropriate to react with shock, horror, etc. I'd like to THINK I could coolly and safely handle a handgun at a moment like that (I've used them but don't like them even a little bit) but that's risky in so many ways.

I would also go with an enormous doce of ACE, even though it may not do much to a very stressed animal. I euthanized a cat once doing that--she had been run over and the vet refused to come--with about 5cc of ACE, then I smothered the poor thing once it was unconscious. :( I would NEVER try this (suffocation) with a horse. Sad as it is, my life is more important and I'm not putting myself in danger from a flailing animal that weighs more than 10 pounds. If I thought I could safely administer a drug, I would try. THAT I'm good at. Guns? Yeesh.

Animals have a great deal of dignity about death when the end comes, in my experience. Yes, there is the primal struggle which is awful to see, but once the shock sets in that spiral downward does not APPEAR TO ME to be too terrible. Hard to know, hard to think about.

Sorry you had to go through it--TALK TO PEOPLE about your grief and shock. Don't keep it under wraps.

[Cielo Azure]

http://www.nal.usda.gov/awic/pubs/noawicpubs/avmaeuth93.htm#carbon
http://www.nal.usda.gov/awic/pubs/noawicpubs/avmaeuth93.htm

http://www.alysion.org/euthanasia/

http://research.uiowa.edu/animal/?get=euthanasia#Farm%20Animals

Exsanguination!?! I have bled out animals (trained at UC DAVIS -grin). YUCK! Bleeding out a horse! That is a painful death. It is only an acceptable manner, in the anesthetized animal.

This page had some good stuff.
http://vetmed.duhs.duke.edu/guidelines_for_euthanasia_agents.htm

Now, potassium chloride (KCl) administered IV to an anesthetized horse. mmm. That might work. I will research that one further, when I get some time.

As for the judgmentalism on seeking out these methods now and trying to figure out what would work, it kind of creeps me out. If you have ever been in a situation where you had a sick horse (someone one this site had to wait 3 days for a vet to euthanize an animal that was way beyond life), you would know that "qualified" help isn't always out there. Besides, without knowing my background or those involved in the discussion, isn't it a bit presuming to assume that people aren't qualified to put down their own animals in a humane way? I, personally, am just trying to explore what is and isn't humane and what would or wouldn't work.

[monstrpony]

Disclaimer: Remember, we're talking about desperate situations here!

I've never used a firearm and would prefer not to learn, and I don't do IV injections (tho, in this kind of pinch, I'd probably give it a try). I probably do have neighbors who do use firearms, and I know about the "X" on the head for proper location to aim. Still possible to mess up, I'm sure.

But if the animal is down and already severly incapacitated, what about slitting their throat? I suppose it would be easy to make a mess of that, but isn't a cut with a really sharp instrument relatively un-painful? And isn't exsanguination a relatively painless death? I'd only consider this, of course, on an animal that was down and pretty incapacitated already. Do they struggle once the throat's been cut? It seems, physiologically, that unconsciousness would come pretty quickly, if not final death.

If it were "just" a mangled leg, and the horse were standing on three and could be made calm, I'd go for a massive dose of bute or banamine and pockets-full of treats, and just wait on the vet. They are stoic about these things, that wait would be far harder on me than on the animal.

[HappyTalk]

I recently attended the Large Animal Technical Rescue Course at Hagyard Equine Medical Institute in KY. Emergency euthanasia was one of the topics discussed. They taught us the correct procedure to shoot a horse. I am seriously considering carrying a gun when I transport one of mine. My husband and I both have firearm experience. As an aside, I recommend that every horse owner attend this course. In the case of a catastrophic accident, many first responders do not have horse/large animal knowledege. One of more upsetting topics was botched equine rescues.

[Fiat Lux]

I am so sorry that you had to go through that. I think that is the thing every horse owner dreads the most. You did what you could, and you didn't do anything desperate/stupid. Good for you. You were strong for the horse.

Remember that if we do want to be able to use a firearm, we have to get a permit (I think all states have this law?) and we have to be comfortable using it -- which means using it on a regular basis. And, we have to know where to aim so we get the brain -- it isn't always as obvious as you'd think. Otherwise, we WILL miss the brain and cause more suffering.

Also, if we're going to give Ace or similar, we've got to be practiced in giving injections in the right places. Again, this takes training and practice so we don't screw it up.

If you're concerned about this, educate and prepare yourself now, so if/when the time comes, it doesn't turn out poorly, but with relief.

[smilton]

Euthanasia solution is a controled substance so you can't have it on hand. Having some Xylizine (Rompum) on hand for sedation may not be a bad idea but it has to be given IV. I had to put my stallion down last week after he managed to jump out of his paddock and injure his spine. A rifle was much faster and more humane than waiting for a vet. In fact I ran for the rifle. <5 minutes Firearms can be more humane than euthanasia solution if you have ever seen it not go so well you would know what I meant.

[onthebit]

In that scenario I would shoot the horse rather than waiting on the vet. Death by gunshot is very traumatic for the people involved and one of the most humane deaths for the animal involved. Since my father is a firearms instructor for the sheriff's department (this is his "retirement job") and hubby is well trained in firearms including first responder for large animals I know it would be done correctly and painlessly for the animal involved.

For me it would be harder to sit for an hour or two or even more while the animal is really suffering waiting for the vet to arrive. I have also seen euthanasia not go smoothly so every method can have a drawback.

[DressageGeek "Ribbon Ho"]

So, so sorry.

[Beverley]

You can take some comfort in knowing that with catastrophic injuries, shock/adrenaline 'do' quickly set in- so no, mammals in such situations are not in agonizing pain.

That said, while I don't usually carry a gun, I could probably go home and get one and return to the barn to dispatch the horse before a vet got there, and that's what I'd do. When I whipped in foxhunting and carried a gun loaded with rat shot, I did also have some 'real' bullets in a pocket just in case. And when packing in the wilderness in these parts, someone does always carry a gun.

Alternately one can slit their throats, even more upsetting for the humans because it 'is' very messy, but it does relieve suffering. And I've attended a session where a vet explained how to cut an artery on the back end, going through the rectum, but I would think that would be very risky for the human unless the horse is pretty far gone anyway and not apt to kick or thrash.

[MSP]

Been their done that! :sadsmile:

I had to wait over three hours for a vet to arrive to euthanize my TB filly after she broke her front leg off just below the knee. It was dangling by some flesh, she was in shock and just stood their bleeding until the vet finally came.

My mind is racing, trying to think of who this could be... what happened? If you get a chance PM me.

[Stacie]

40 years ago when my brother was 14, he was training his 3 y.o quarter horse in a ring, when another rider left the ring and left the gate open. All the pastures were across a country highway and my brother's horse decides to high tail it back to his buds in the pasture.
My brother bails as the horse jumps into the highway, and the horse nearly makes it across before a car catches the toe of his trailing leg causing the leg to shatter. My brother runs across the road and grabs his horse.
The owner of the farm comes out with a rifle, looks at my brother and says "Be a Man and shoot your horse." My brother declined, the farm owner shoots the horse and I don't know if my brother has ever even been on a horse since. Just lost his taste for it.
Poor guy that run into the horse was driving back from the hospital where he had taken a friend who had accidentally cut off his thumb.

[MistyBlue]

So very sorry you had to go through that. :( It's a horrid, horrid feeling standing there helpless watching an animal suffer. :no:

Gunshot is by far the best means of immediate death, but I do understand and respect your reasons for not wanting to keep a firearm handy in case you need it. They can be dangerous/deadly things to have around people who are not comfortable and well trained in their use and storage.
However, you don't have to have a firearm to use one in an emergency situation. Neighbors or friends you may know who hunt can perform this service for you and be there more quickly than a vet. In some areas police officers will also perform this service, but only if the animal is in a road or in a spot where it's a danger to people.

Slit throat would be my second option to suggest...yes, it's messy and scary looking and would be something very hard to force yourself to do. I completely understand that...and I'd think anyone who assumed it was easy to do might have a screw loose somewhere upstairs. However...it's not considered a seriously painful death (if the horse has severe injuries or pain at the time the throat is slit, most likely the horse will not even notice any discomfort when it's done) and the results are very fast. They faint/fall unconscious pretty quickly from loss of blood...then pass away while out as the rest of the blood leaves the body.

[Bluey]

We always have a gun handy.
Many years ago a vet told us that he was taught in vet school that he could use on cattle large IV doses of neomicin to euthanize, when he may not have anything else on hand.
It seems that it ties the calcium up and they die gently of a heart attack.
Neomicin is generally an oral solution for diarrhea in calves.
Don't know if that is still taught.
Best ask your vet what would be indicated in your particular situation.

A friend had a trailer accident and she called the sheriff, that shot the horse for her.
You can always do that.:yes:

[LisaW-B]

I am so deeply sorry for you. There was a horrible accident along a road I used to ride on, where a speeding, reckless motorcyclist hit a horse and rider. The horse was, as you say, catastrophically injured. Fortunately, a local rancher happened to drive by, and he shot the horse rather than making the animal, and its injured and no doubt in-shock rider, wait for a vet.

[JenJ]

Sorry to hear you had to go through such a sad and tramatic experience.
It is a horrible but necessary thing to think about. I have been present for one such nightmare. A horse at a barn where I boarded a few years ago suffered a catastrophic injury in the paddock. The barn manager gave him banamine, tried to stabalize the leg with wraps and waited for the vet. I waited with BM and the horse and we took turns holding up the leg and holding the horse while trying to keep him calm. Somehow the horse's 17 year old owner was not contacted. I believe the barn owner, who was new to the horse business, simply panicked. The girl's parents were contacted but when they said the owner was at work, it was left there. The BO did not tell the parents had happened and no further effort was made to contact the owner at work.
BM and I were standing there in the paddock counting the seconds / minutes until the vet arrived about an hour later. That was when we all learned that the BO had not notified the owner of the horse. The vet quickly called the parents and arranged for the girl to be picked up and driven to the barn to say good bye to the horse and give consent for the euthanasia ... another 20 minutes or so of waiting time for this poor horse.
This horse did actually hop a few feet over on three legs to reach the hay and did take a few bites while waiting.

The delay in the situation I witnessed resulted because an inexperienced BO lost her ability to function in the face of disaster but it made me think about the situation where the owner cannot be found. I would hate to think of a horse's suffering being prolonged due to owner unavailability. While I would want to be present if it was my horse that had to be PTS, I have, since witnessing this incident, spoken with my vet and BO/BM to ensure they would euthanize without needing for my express consent in the event of a catastrophic injury if they could not get me on the phone.

As afar as the OP's quieries about doing it yourself, I certainly dont have the means or knowledge to do it, but even if i did, I think the vet would have to be more than an hour away before it would become a real option for me.

[hoopoe]

http://www.avma.org/issues/animal_welfare/euthanasia.pdf


I have posted this link before and will touch on it again

anyone serious about methods and means needs to read and understand this document.

Some of the suggested means here CO2 , IV OD of neomycin KCL etc
would result in horrific and potentially dangerous situations. CO2 is not a pretty sit down and go to sleep death. It involves much flailing struggling and gasping. KCL would result in loss of muscle control with attendant seizure and potentially rearing flailing and again prolonged gasping and slow agonal death due to cardiac arrest.

Every barn and horse owner should have on hand a list of all vets near at hand In the event of a catistrophic injury a livestock ( cow pig sheep) vet would be better equipped to take care of business.

gunshot would be good but like mentioned before without proper training AND PRACTICE a botched job is worse.

exsanguination is slow and guaranteed to produce a lot of slow reactive behavior before hypovolemic shock sets in.

I would not even contemplate loading my horse up with mega sedatives such as ace or rompun since this lowers the blood pressure and slows the effect of euthanasia solution when it is ultimately given.

As someone mentioned before an animal in shock and pain reaches a specific level of pain and shock and remains there. the psychology of the situation is more ours than the animals.

[asb_own_me]

Concerning the use of a gun to euthanize (in an emergency OR non-emergency situation) - I have heard that ideally you want to use a .22. Is that true? Why? My husband owns a .40 and a .45 Could either of these be used?

[citydog]

What hoopoe said. :yes:

The UC Davis Emergency Euthanasia of Horses pamphlet (http://www.vetmed.ucdavis.edu/vetext/INF-AN/INF-AN_EMERGEUTH-HORSES.HTML) is here (http://www.vetmed.ucdavis.edu/vetext/INF-AN/INF-AN_EMERGEUTH-HORSES.HTML). There's a nice clear diagram on where a bullet should go (so even if you don't have a firearm yourself, you can tell the neighbor or sheriff or whatever where it needs to go (if they don't themselves know).

[Beverley]

Concerning the use of a gun to euthanize (in an emergency OR non-emergency situation) - I have heard that ideally you want to use a .22. Is that true? Why? My husband owns a .40 and a .45 Could either of these be used?

Yes, a .22 with hollow point works well. Yes, you could use a larger caliber. Be aware, though, that the expression 'right between the eyes' is not quite accurate- one would hit sinuses there and it would be ugly. The correct spot is higher, more like 'between the eyebrows.'

[Thomas_1]

In reality I would never have to wait over an hour. Longest ever wait on an emergency call out has been 25 minutes. And I hasten to add it was one of the LONGEST 25 minutes of my life!

Not something I've had to do with a horse but I have with cattle.

Massive dose of analgesia and sedative and then a gun and a strong resolve and constitution.

[mbd]

Living in a very rural area and having lots of back country experience, I always carry a gun and know how to use it. Unfortunately, I have had to once. I know every situation is different, but I can't imagine waiting hours for a vet to put a horse (or any animal) out of pain.

I was also taught to cut the jugular if a gun wasn't handy. Have seen it done, it wasn't quiet or very pretty, but it was amazingly fast.

The method mentioned to go in through the rectum I also learned (my father was a very practical man), but hopefully we'll never have to go there.

Gun-wise, a .22 will work but is not ideal. There's plenty of bone in that head and you really need to make sure you have enough bullet to get through it all the first time. A .40 or .45 is plenty, but PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE learn how to shoot a horse. If anybody's interested in details, I will post what I was taught.

From personal experience, do not assume a police officer / trooper / sheriff knows how. I witnessed a horse / car accident and did not have a gun along since I was driving. The sheriff who showed up had no clue how to properly shoot a horse, so he got the 5 minute crash course lecture on the side of the road. I felt bad for him, but he did it right.

[MSP]

You know when my filly broke her leg I had the option of a gun but I did not feel qualified to do it. Unless I had been instructed and had been able to practice I would not do it myself if a vet was available.

Both myself and my father had firearms at the time and did target shooting but it isn't the same as euthanizing, the shot must be placed correctly.

I don't think anyone should feel bad if they must wait for a vet. How long would you wait for an ambulance if you were injured at home? Last time I called for one at my place is was well over 45 minutes and they had to call me for directions.

Perhaps having some strong pain meds on hand to relieve suffering would be a better option.

[LongLeaf]

I'm so sorry for your friend and for you that you had to witness that.

I've seen a potassium chloride "humane euthanisia" performed on a dog and it was the most inhumane death I've ever witnessed and I was a vet tech for 15 years, so I've seen ALOT! I would never recommend this, even in a pinch.

A firearm is the fastest, most humane method of euthansia as long as the bullet is placed correctly. I was told to draw an imaginary line from the horse's ear, across his forehead to his opposite eye, then do the same for the other side. The the bullet should go where the two lines cross - more on his forehead than the sterotypical "right between the eyes". If you go between the eyes, it'll just enter his sinus cavities and create an even bigger catastrophe.

[citydog]

Because a pic is worth a thousand words and folks tend not to click on text links... :(

[asb_own_me]

Gun-wise, a .22 will work but is not ideal. There's plenty of bone in that head and you really need to make sure you have enough bullet to get through it all the first time. A .40 or .45 is plenty, but PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE learn how to shoot a horse. If anybody's interested in details, I will post what I was taught.



While unpleasant, it is important information. Would you please post it?

[carasmom]

About 6 months I had to put down a foal. We gave him a large amount of Ace and then injected about 60cc of air into his heart and 60cc of air into his brain stem at the base of his skull. Fortunately for us one of the people present works in animal research at a local hospital and was able to help. I am also a RN. While being a horrible situation that broke my heart he died a peaceful death without much thrashing. We were able to sit on a blanket with him and hold him until his heart stopped.

[yaya]

I looked at the link for the proper way to shoot a horse. I'm confused, though.

The text says, "The optimal site for penetration of the skull is one-half inch above the intersection of a diagonal line from the base of the ear to the in side corner of the opposite eye. "

But the diagram shows the lines going from the base of the ear to the OUTSIDE corner of the opposite eye, which puts the intersection a good bit higher.

Which is correct? According to the diagram of brain location, the pictured, not written, method looks like it would be the correct one otherwise you'd be too low and miss the brain.

Somebody needs to correct that publication.

[citydog]

Good catch, yaya!

ETA: I just emailed one of the authors.

[BlueEyedSorrel]

What a horrible situation for all involved! Yes, every horse person's worse nightmare.

Isn't it contraindicated to give something like ACE to a horse who is already "riled up"? I think I remember hearing that some horses will have the opposite reaction if given a tranquililzer if they are already in a stressful situation... just curious, as the answer to that question could be important in decision making if any of us (God forbid) were to be in a situation like that...

Yes, it's a well known side effect that even in calm animals, ace can occasionally cause unprovoked aggressive behavior, and can make a hyped up animal worse. Ace also relaxes blood vessels and lowers the blood pressure, so it would make shock worse, especially if the horse has already lost a lot of blood. I'm no expert, but it seems that sedation would have to be approached differently for a horse with a catastrophic but closed injury (ie fractured leg) than one with big open wounds and heavy bleeding.

To me, unless you truly have no other choice, ace doesn't seem like the way to go. I think the combination of an animal with a rapidly destabilizing cardiovascular system and lots of adrenalin flowing + a drug that destabilizes things further + possible behavioral side effect of the drug could result in a very dangerous situation. Ace affects the brain, heart, respiration and blood vessels. You have no way of predicting if the horse will just slump over quietly or stagger, thrash and kick. If the dose isn't high enough to finish the job, you could be faced with an animal that is in distress, is too dangerous to approach and lingers like that until it collapses.

Pharmacology is a tricky thing best left to the experts...my vote for euthanasia when a vet isn't available would be a bullet.

BlueEyedSorrel

[pintopiaffe]

A friend had a trailer accident and she called the sheriff, that shot the horse for her.
You can always do that.

No, you can't.

Many, if not most Law Enforcement Officers are NOT allowed to shoot domestic animals of any kind. YOU can shoot your horse or dog, but I cannot, unless there is immenent danger to humans. :(

I wish it were different. And yes, many of us will bend the rules. Nothing breaks my heart more than a small animal that needs to be put down NOW rather than suffer.

I saw this suggestion several times. Please, please become familiar with local/state laws, ordinances etc. BEFORE you need to. I know in my jurisdiction, if it was something like a traffic/trailer accident, I could dispatch the horse. If it is an accident on your farm, I cannot.

(and honestly, though I've had to shoot deer involved in car accidents, I can only pray if the time comes I am able to be professional and do my job. While I believe in euthanasia for animals, I hope I never have to find out if *I* can do it. :cry: )

[luckyducky]

I got a desparate call from some friends of mine over a year regarding this same scenario, they had a pony that was down with blood pouring out of his mouth and nose, and he was struggling to breathe, vet was unavailable for several hours. I wnet over with all the tools I had to make a horse comfortable til vet could arrive, ( bute, banamine, ventapul...) I get there and it is obvious, this horse is not going to recover from this, I had them try the vet again, no answer. I told them ( which they already knew,) that this pony was suffering and needed to be put out of his misery now. The husband ( who is a kind sweet man) went to the house for a gun, and the wife and I tried to get the pony to at least stand ( for me if they can stand I feel they have some chance of recovering ). Pony tried to stand got there shanking and wobbling and abruptly fell again making more blood pour out. This then only confirmed my thoughts that he wasn't going to be able to pull out of this. Husband came back with .22 rifle, and family said their good byes to thier kind sweet pony, mom herded children up to house and husband and I stayed behind. I admitted I had never shot a horse before and had no idea where to even place the gun. Husband didn't know either, but, his placement was a little higher than the diagrams show, one shot and Diego was at peace, no blood, no nothing, anticlimactic in a gross sort of way. But, I knew he was no longer suffering and on his way to Horse Heaven. For this reason, I will purchase a firearm ( after my son is old enough to handle one safely), I have taken the required firearms courses, just didn't want to own a gun, I don't hunt wo why would I need one? This is exactly why.

[Duramax]

I had to make this decision about a month ago. :(

On a Sunday afternoon we had a thunderstorm develop. Shasta was "safely" in the barn but a lightening bolt must have scared her (she was always more scared of the lightening than the thunder- also scared of camera flashes, silly girl) and she jumped over the dutch door in her stall out into the pasture. Only her front end made it over- she caught her hocks on the door and pulled the door down with her. My FIL called me to say that I needed to come check on her b/c she was hurt. When I got there she was standing on 3 legs with the right hind held up, but nothing appeared to be too bad (in other words, nothing seemed to be broken- i was supsecting serious soft tissue trauma).

I took her to the vet hospital about 45 min. away where we did thorough x-rays of the right hind- specicifically the hock joint. The only thing that appeared to be abnormal was some potential bone chips in the joint. I was sent home with her with instructions to bute her 2x daily, hand walk her 5" 2x a day and cold hose/ice the hock joint as frequently as I could and to keep it wrapped. Everytime I would wrap it she would fuss when she had to walk- you know how a lot of horses will react when they have shipping boots on or another bandage that feels funny?

Fast forward to Wednesday morning. I had set her up in the washrack with my improvised "ice boot" (a jeans leg filled with ice) around her hock where she would stand for the 15-20" while the joint iced. For whatever reason she decided to start fussing about the wrap and the ice and yanked her right hind in the air- I swear her hoof was about as high as my ribcage. She then started dramatically hopping around on the other hind (picture a chestnut TB mare hissy fit) and during this episode she slipped and fell down in the washrack...

She was still cross-tied and I jumped to just get out of the way as she struggled and thrashed around trying to get up. When she came up she let out a really bizarre screaming whinny and when I looked at the right hind which she was still holding up, I could see a very unusual side-to-side motion that it was making. She immediately started shaking all over. She was going into shock.

I called my MIL to come validate what I thought I was seeing and when called the vet who was an hour away. We knew what had to be done. We pumped her full of banamine and aced her until my FIL could come out to the barn with the gun. I grabbed a bucket full of the sweetest sweetfeed I could find in the feedroom and let her stuff her face with it- I hadn't let her have "cheapy" sweetfeed in years... only the best for Shasta McNasty! My in-laws and husband made me say my goodbyes and then my husband took me away while my in-laws did what had to be done.

It was devestating but at the same time it was the easiest decision I ever had to make in my life. The answer was so obvious. There was no way that I was going to make her wait an hour until the vet could come.

RIP Shasta McNasty

Edited to add: My non-emergency vet (in other words, not the one that did the original x-rays) has hypothesized that she probably had a spiral fracture that occured during the jump out of the stall. She said that its fairly common for them not to show up on x-rays and 2-3 days later the horse does something and they break.

[angel]

I don't know if they would have come or not, but I might have tried calling the local sherrif's department, and asked that a deputy be sent over. I also have a back-up vet service that I can call. Sometimes, both vets are busy though.:cry:

[mbd]

... by my father, not a vet, but it worked every time he did it and the one time I've had to. It's very close to the diagram at the bottom of p.2:

Draw a line from the bottom center of each ear to the top center of the opposite eyeball. X marks the spot.

I was taught to use a minimum .38 caliber and NEVER place the muzzle against the skin, keep it away 4-6".

The one time I had to do this, it was a mule that broke his neck or back falling off a trail. I was fortunate in that the mule was mostly immobilized by the injury and was white, so I used mud on my finger to draw the X. It was over in 15 seconds.

Yes, this is an unpleasant discussion but there is a lot of good information being posted.

[olympicdreams04]

While names and locations dont need to be mentioned, I attended an event last during which a horse, just galloping down to a fence on an easy prelim course, suffered a severe compound fracture of his radius. The rider was obviously disloged when the horse fell but was uninjured. When she got to her feet, she called to her horse and he turned on his heels from investigating the galloping lane and trotted in her direction at which point she took note of his flailing leg and fled the scene. Confused, the poor boy galloped around three legged for a bit until myself and two other people who happened to be on that part of the course corralled him. It took probably 15 minutes for even anyone involved with the horse to show up. When they did, it was discovered that neither rider (YR) or parents owned the horse and that he was, in fact, owned by an UL rider who was unreachable. TWO HOURS LATER the all clear was finally given and the poor horse was humane euthanized...only to fall on the injured leg and further destroy it. Gruesome at best for all involved. This really made me think about what the USEA might think of doing to standardize euthanasia if there is NO hope, which there certainly was not in this case. Perhaps something written into the waiver signed saying responsible parties cannot be sued for horses worth or damages if it was the right thing to do. Realistically, this will never happen as there is far too much legal mumbo jumbo but such is life. On this note, I'm a vet tech at whatever racetrack I may be working at in the afternoons after I ride and I have been told atleast twice that ESE administered IV will do the job quickly and painlessly. Can anyone corroborate this?

[SleepyFox]

To the OP: I'm so sorry you and your friend had to go through this. Hugs to you.

Unfortunately, I've had some experience in this area. It is difficult in any circumstance. We recently had to do a DIY euthanasia on a yearling. It was on a Sunday, and I couldn't get a vet to come out. We actually had a group of two seasoned hunters, a nurse, a career soldier and myself. Every one of us was shaking when it was over. A .22 rifle is recommended because a .22 bullet will not exit the head on the far side which could potentially cause additional damage. A rifle is long enough to keep the shooter a safe distance from the horse. However, in my experience, if you are in a safe environment, a larger caliber would be better. It took two .22 bullets to fully kill the yearling - both were ideally placed shots. He lost consiousness after the first shot, but the heart didn't stop. The horse in this case was down and in that situation, I would suggest placing a plastic bag or towel under the head to ease in clean up. It is not pleasant and there is some muscle twitching and other typical body responses at death.

I would never, ever recommend experimenting with euthanasia techniques. There was a man in a few towns away from me that was arrested on animal cruelty charges after botching a euthanasia on a horse. Horrible story and after our incident I totally understood why he wasn't able to get vet assistance, but if you aren't exactly sure what you are doing, you are likely only going to compound the problem.

As others have suggested, if you are uncomfortable with a firearm, a neighbor might be willing to help. Personally, I know I can shoot a horse, but I'm not sure I could slit a throat. And, for travel, I generally do carry a firearm (with appropriate permit and unloaded with clip separate from gun) just in case of emergency.

What a horrible subject, but one worthy of discussion.

[FLIPPED HER HALO]

Long ago my boyfriend had horses. He'd found one injured badly like your friends in the pasture. He called around for vets but nobody could get there. He ened up pulling his gun out and putting the poor horse out of it's misery.

I lost a your TB to a pasture accident years ago. He broke his shoulder. The vet did make it there quickly and it was decided he needed to get to UC Davis. I knew when I loaded him, 3 legged, into that trailer that he'd never come home again. He went into shock on the way and after exploring all options (he was insured so surgery cost were covered) he was euthanized.

There are things you never forget and you never get over. Losing that horse brings tears to my eyes every time I think or talk of him. Going through what you just had to go though I'm sure you are feeling the same way. I'm so sorry you had to endure all that, and that poor horse. My thoughts are with you all.

[Pony Fixer]

OP, My sympathies, it's not easy even if it isn't your horse.

I have not read past the first few posts, sorry if I am redundant.

1) A well placed bullet involves making an "X" between the ears and eyes, and shooting at the center of the "X". Most people try right between the eyes, which is just a big sinus. The problem is that the skull is thick, so if you are too close, the bullet (depending on the gun, obviously) can ricochet off and injure a person, and if you are far enough away then it's more difficult to aim for the right spot.

2) Lethal injection is controlled by the DEA (regardless of type) for obvious reasons.

3) For those who would like to sedate the horse prior to the vet arriving, please ask the vet first. It took me an hour to get to a horse with a nasty compound forearm fracture. The BO kindly gave the horse a large dose of detomidine (the horse wasn't freaking out, she just thought that would be the kind thing to do to the horse). Unfortunately it lowered the horse's blood pressure enough to make putting him to sleep really hard on both me and the horse. I think banamine would be okay, but if given IM takes like 20 min to kick in. Honestly, I think a big ole bucket of sweet feed is best--they get shocky enough to block out the pain somewhat, and have a fantastic last meal!

[DopyDgz]

I'm so sorry. I to have thought about this. If push comes to shove, one could slit jugular on both sides with sharp knife.

[Texarkana]

What about keeping a captive bolt gun on hand?

You rarely hear of anyone doing that. And honestly, I don't know that much about them. Are they hard to obtain? Risks? In theory, I think it would be safer than having a gun in the barn. And it might be an option for those who aren't comfortable owning firearms...

I am so sorry for the OP and everyone who has had to go through situations like this. I think it's everyones worst nightmare.

[JoZ]

Please don't attack me for this question. I think I already know the answer but I am learning a lot from this thread and want to be sure.

It seems like there is no doubt in these situations? The anguish everyone seems to be reporting revolves around HOW to do a field euthanasia, and WHO will do it, but no one has mentioned anguish around deciding IF it needs to be done.

I have had injuries where the vet has said "he/she may need to be put down but let's try x, y, z". Some of these have looked horrific. I'm guessing there's a degree of horrific I haven't experienced yet. There is no doubt?

[LD1129]

In the situations that the OP and others are saying as in catostrophic situations you will know when the desision must be made. Im alot of cases their is profuse bleeding. A broken dangling leg is so hard to fix especially if there is blood loss. You can check for shock in the gums, I forget the other ways. Once they hit these points it is hard to make a comeback (not impossible, but hard).

In one instance a leg was mostly ripped off by two geldings playing in turnout. One's leg got caught in the others blanket straps.

A pony I used to show broke his neck while tied to a tree during a storm. (His owner did at his house it not me or trainer)

These are the situations when you know that their is no other choice but to humanely put down the horse.


Please don't attack me for this question. I think I already know the answer but I am learning a lot from this thread and want to be sure.

It seems like there is no doubt in these situations? The anguish everyone seems to be reporting revolves around HOW to do a field euthanasia, and WHO will do it, but no one has mentioned anguish around deciding IF it needs to be done.

I have had injuries where the vet has said "he/she may need to be put down but let's try x, y, z". Some of these have looked horrific. I'm guessing there's a degree of horrific I haven't experienced yet. There is no doubt?

[MSP]

Joz, when I was calling every vet from NH, MA, Conn and Maine to come put my filly down a few told me to haul her to Rochester clinic! All I could say to them is "no you don't understand, her leg is gone, I have no trailer and she can't walk".

For about 1 or 2 minutes a thought of her living with a prosthetic leg occurred to me but my gut said no. You make your decisions as it happens and live with them, in my case no regrets. Not many people want a horse with three legs nor can they afford to have one.

Catastrophic means even if the horse was in a clinic there wouldn't be much hope without throwing tons of money at them and the best they can hope for is a life in pain not able to move like a horse.

When it happens to you there is no doubt what is best, a panic to have the suffering end as soon as possible ensues and that is what the OP has experienced.

[SleepyFox]

It seems like there is no doubt in these situations? The anguish everyone seems to be reporting revolves around HOW to do a field euthanasia, and WHO will do it, but no one has mentioned anguish around deciding IF it needs to be done.

I have had injuries where the vet has said "he/she may need to be put down but let's try x, y, z". Some of these have looked horrific. I'm guessing there's a degree of horrific I haven't experienced yet. There is no doubt?


I hope you never have to experience it, but no, there is no doubt.

[slc2]

my aunt had a large beef cattle farm and owned horses for many, many years. she said that even for an expert marksman who uses a gun frequently, it is extremely difficult to kill a horse with a gun, let alone someone who hasn't picked up a gun in years, and keeps one only for the rare catastrophic accident. any kind of gun. she said the only really acceptable place to shoot them is in the forehead in much the same location as the bolt is used, but she said both the bolt and the gun are extremely difficult to get a good shot on.

her own feeling, even back then 45 yrs ago, was to keep some sedative on hand, and give the horse an overdose. she felt it was the most humane and the least potentially causing the animal more distress. she said that her husband had tried to kill one of the horses when it broke its leg - he was a hunter and a very experienced marksman, as well as completely unemotional about the horses, no 'buck fever'. he tried to put the horse down, hit the skull but did not get the right spot, and the horse was now floundering around, screaming and trying to get up on its broken leg, further damaging the leg and causing the horse and her further distress...and no hope of getting another shot. it was a disaster and went on for several hours.

even a skilled and practiced handler of weapons doesn't have an easy time putting an animal down, let alone someone out of practice and shaking with emotion. it is not like in the movies. please, do not do it. a syringe of sedative is a quiet and peaceful way, the animal just goes to sleep.

[monstrpony]

I think the assumption in this particular discussion is that whoever is responsible for making the decision that the horse will not recover, has done so.

Talking about making that decision is a whole separate discussion that is worth pursuing, certainly, but it might just muddy the waters to add it to this one. There are times when it is possible to see that a horse can't be saved, or can't be saved without heroic efforts that will result in a compromised quality of life--but one has only to revisit the Barbaro discussions to see what a difficult topic that can be. There's too much valuable information coming out of this thread, so I would hope we won't get sidetracked into that more difficult discussion here.

But your observation is a valid one, and you having made it adds clarity to the discussion here.

[Duramax]

I'm guessing there's a degree of horrific I haven't experienced yet. There is no doubt?

You got it. Like I mentioned in my earlier post it was an awful decision to make, but was the easiest decision I've ever made in my whole life. It was so incredibly obvious.

With Shasta I knew, but called my vet to see where she was- as that was my first option. In an ideal world Dr. W would have done it. However since she was an hour+ away I knew what had to be done- after describing to her what I was seeing she confirmed what I knew.

[dressagetraks]

So sorry, OP.

I've had to do it once. I used a gun, and it was so quick and such a release from the horror before. I have no doubt that he never felt the shot, although unfortunately, he was feeling plenty before that. I would do it again, but I hope I will never have to. And at that moment, no, there was no possible doubt in my mind what must be done. The only question was method.

I, too, have wondered about a captive bolt. Are these obtainable to people other than vets?

[mp]

her own feeling, even back then 45 yrs ago, was to keep some sedative on hand, and give the horse an overdose ...

a syringe of sedative is a quiet and peaceful way, the animal just goes to sleep.

And then wait for the vet to come and euthanize the horse or do your best with the rifle. It takes more than an "overdose" of sedative to stop the heart of a healthy horse.

JoZ, when you see your horse's rear leg dangling, his canon bone broken completely in two, there is no doubt. :no: Fortunately, our vet got there quickly to euthanize him. But if she hadn't, we would have done it ourselves. We have had to do it before for a severely injured calf and a cow. It's awful, but sometimes it's the kindest thing.

[Bluey]

my aunt had a large beef cattle farm and owned horses for many, many years. she said that even for an expert marksman who uses a gun frequently, it is extremely difficult to kill a horse with a gun, let alone someone who hasn't picked up a gun in years, and keeps one only for the rare catastrophic accident. any kind of gun. she said the only really acceptable place to shoot them is in the forehead in much the same location as the bolt is used, but she said both the bolt and the gun are extremely difficult to get a good shot on.

her own feeling, even back then 45 yrs ago, was to keep some sedative on hand, and give the horse an overdose. she felt it was the most humane and the least potentially causing the animal more distress. she said that her husband had tried to kill one of the horses when it broke its leg - he was a hunter and a very experienced marksman, as well as completely unemotional about the horses, no 'buck fever'. he tried to put the horse down, hit the skull but did not get the right spot, and the horse was now floundering around, screaming and trying to get up on its broken leg, further damaging the leg and causing the horse and her further distress...and no hope of getting another shot. it was a disaster and went on for several hours.

even a skilled and practiced handler of weapons doesn't have an easy time putting an animal down, let alone someone out of practice and shaking with emotion. it is not like in the movies. please, do not do it. a syringe of sedative is a quiet and peaceful way, the animal just goes to sleep.

Sorry your family had to go thru that bad experience.
I have shot with our little rifle and 22 longs several cattle and two horses with broken leg/shoulder and all dropped right there.
It is really not hard at all, if you know where and are very careful.

I still prefer to wait for a vet if at all possible.

[citydog]

I just heard back from one of the authors of the UC Davis pamphlet regarding the discrepancy between the description and the diagram:

Hello [citydog],

Thanks for bringing to my attention the inaccuracy of the written description and the diagram. The correct site of penetration is the "inside" cornet of the eye. I certainly will work on changing the diagram. Thanks again for your effort to let me know.


So there. I hope none of us ever has to use it.

[hundredacres]

A couple of years ago I walked into the barn and came upon a barn cat that had tangled with *something* - sparing details, there was NO way I was going to pick her up and take her to the vet, even if it was just a few miles away. I went into the house and got the gun that DH had only taught me to use the month before, and I shot her. I was so sick I almost threw up afterward, but I would have been in worse shape had I not been able to move her. She was suffering horribly and it was over in a split second. It was the kindest thing to do. There was no other choice.

I would do it again, and I would do it to a horse if I had to.

[philosoraptor]

You did the best you could under the circumstances. **hugs**

There are some good diagrams out there on how to put down a horse with a gun. We are assuming you're halfway proficient at using the gun and that you picked the right size. The diagrams usually come with a side note recommending what caliber is best. You may not be up to the task, but in most rural communities there are folks used to putting down big animals (eg. cows) and could shoot the horse for you if needed. Ask around.

I would not go messing with trying to DIY with a captive bolt gun or with sedatives. There are penetrating and non-penetrating kinds, and even the penetrating kind has reports of horses waking back up as they're bled out (slaughter). The more humane use of a captive bolt also involves sedation & restraining the head. Sedatives could be very messy, and you may end up with a horse who is still alive but his liver is destroyed (from what I understand, though I am admittedly no vet)

In some states there's a procedure to apply for being able to legally obtain and use the euthanasia anesthetic to put down an animal, but I'm not sure it's worth it. Odds of having this happen again are so tiny. I'd also worry about putting down others' animals. If anything were to go wrong, you know an emotional grief-stricken person may blame you and now they're suing you.

You did the best you could under the circumstances. Try not to dwell on what you might not have done as well as possible. At least you called in the emergency vet which is more than some people do.

[hundredacres]

What a horrible situation for all involved! Yes, every horse person's worse nightmare.



Yes, it's a well known side effect that even in calm animals, ace can occasionally cause unprovoked aggressive behavior, and can make a hyped up animal worse. Ace also relaxes blood vessels and lowers the blood pressure, so it would make shock worse, especially if the horse has already lost a lot of blood. I'm no expert, but it seems that sedation would have to be approached differently for a horse with a catastrophic but closed injury (ie fractured leg) than one with big open wounds and heavy bleeding.

To me, unless you truly have no other choice, ace doesn't seem like the way to go. I think the combination of an animal with a rapidly destabilizing cardiovascular system and lots of adrenalin flowing + a drug that destabilizes things further + possible behavioral side effect of the drug could result in a very dangerous situation. Ace affects the brain, heart, respiration and blood vessels. You have no way of predicting if the horse will just slump over quietly or stagger, thrash and kick. If the dose isn't high enough to finish the job, you could be faced with an animal that is in distress, is too dangerous to approach and lingers like that until it collapses.

Pharmacology is a tricky thing best left to the experts...my vote for euthanasia when a vet isn't available would be a bullet.

BlueEyedSorrel


I agree, I have been present when horses have had horrible, aggressive reactions to ACE. I would never use it in this situation.

[Sannois]

I don't want to go into details, it's just too painful. A friend's horse was catastrophically injured in the pasture yesterday. I was called to help while we waited for the vet. It took the vet considerably more than hour to arrive -- he is half an hour away, and had a horse under anaesthesia when the call came in. During that time I could only comfort and calm the horse as best I could.

I kept thinking that if I had a gun and knew how to use it, or some kind of lethal injection, I could perhaps relieve his suffering sooner. Having nothing, I could only stand with the brave boy and give him my heart. I hoped he would bleed out or shock out, but he had too much spirit and will, and resisted death.

How do other people handle this?
Thing happen to me many years ago. I was managing a small Barn, fairly new build, and a boarders mare got loose she went over a pasture fence where she encoundered old downed barb wire in the woods, attached to an old post she drug it on her front end and it about sawed her legs off. All I could do was wrap a big cooler around it the damage was so extensive. The owner was hysterical No one had a gun. Vet took 45 minutes to get their it was the most agonizing length of time ever. I dont know what I would have done even if there was a gun cause owner was not thinking rationally and if animal had been shot there was always the danger of someone coming back and suing after the fact. Which in fact is what they tried to do. The horse got loose from owner while he was tacking her up. He left his stall door open and she bolted thru it and ran out of the barn. the wire was not even on the farm land. So I guess unless it is your horse and you are doing the shooting, its better to wait for the vet.
:eek:

[J Swan]

I'm not being judgmental at all. Killing an animal is not new. You don't have to come up with new ideas - it's already been thought out. There are several ways that are considered acceptable forms of euthanasia. And then there is emergency euthanasia. If you read my post, you'd have known that I have killed animals in an emergency. My own. I felt terrible about it but I knew I did the right thing.

Exsanguination is not a painful death- unless you don't know how to do perform it properly. Exsanguination is both halal and kosher if performed properly, and is also acceptable as a form of emergency euthanasia in certain circumstances. Acceptable. Not ideal.

Jane Doe horseowner sawing at her horse's neck with a steak knife is not an acceptable scenario. Neither is gassing it or sticking a plastic bag over its head.

If a person isn't prepared to end suffering, they'd probably be better off talking to their vet about safe methods of stabilizing an animal or what meds to have on hand rather than talking about emergency euthanasia.

Even the best trained slaughterhouse worker has an occasional miss - I'd hate to think that a loving horse owner might try to euthanize their horse only to create more agony. Particularly if they read this thread and thought it was ok to do something like suffocate it.

My suggestion is to talk to a vet about emergency euthanasia and what meds to keep on hand, and how to use them.



http://www.nal.usda.gov/awic/pubs/noawicpubs/avmaeuth93.htm#carbon
http://www.nal.usda.gov/awic/pubs/noawicpubs/avmaeuth93.htm

http://www.alysion.org/euthanasia/

http://research.uiowa.edu/animal/?get=euthanasia#Farm%20Animals

Exsanguination!?! I have bled out animals (trained at UC DAVIS -grin). YUCK! Bleeding out a horse! That is a painful death. It is only an acceptable manner, in the anesthetized animal.

This page had some good stuff.
http://vetmed.duhs.duke.edu/guidelines_for_euthanasia_agents.htm

Now, potassium chloride (KCl) administered IV to an anesthetized horse. mmm. That might work. I will research that one further, when I get some time.

As for the judgmentalism on seeking out these methods now and trying to figure out what would work, it kind of creeps me out. If you have ever been in a situation where you had a sick horse (someone one this site had to wait 3 days for a vet to euthanize an animal that was way beyond life), you would know that "qualified" help isn't always out there. Besides, without knowing my background or those involved in the discussion, isn't it a bit presuming to assume that people aren't qualified to put down their own animals in a humane way? I, personally, am just trying to explore what is and isn't humane and what would or wouldn't work.

[DopyDgz]

Just out of curiousity, if one were to call Animal Control, would they be able to help in a situation like this?

[mp]

Just out of curiousity, if one were to call Animal Control, would they be able to help in a situation like this?

Only if a stray dog is bothering your mortally injured horse and you want them to catch it.

In my neck of the woods, Animal Control personnel wouldn't know how to put a halter on a horse much less euthanize one.

[J Swan]

I hope you never have to experience it, but no, there is no doubt.


True. :no:

[Fiat Lux]

I recently attended the Large Animal Technical Rescue Course at Hagyard Equine Medical Institute in KY. Emergency euthanasia was one of the topics discussed. They taught us the correct procedure to shoot a horse. I am seriously considering carrying a gun when I transport one of mine. My husband and I both have firearm experience. As an aside, I recommend that every horse owner attend this course. In the case of a catastrophic accident, many first responders do not have horse/large animal knowledege. One of more upsetting topics was botched equine rescues.

That sounds like a good course. Who actually taught the course -- someone at Hagyard or a visiting vet?

[Fiat Lux]

The delay in the situation I witnessed resulted because an inexperienced BO lost her ability to function in the face of disaster but it made me think about the situation where the owner cannot be found. I would hate to think of a horse's suffering being prolonged due to owner unavailability. While I would want to be present if it was my horse that had to be PTS, I have, since witnessing this incident, spoken with my vet and BO/BM to ensure they would euthanize without needing for my express consent in the event of a catastrophic injury if they could not get me on the phone.

Most places I have boarded require as part of the contract that the owner gives the BO, BM, or a local vet the authority to make the call if the owner cannot be contacted. This is of course the best thing for the horse.

Remember, too that if you have insurance on your horse, some insurance companies require notification BEFORE euthanization and I think most require it be done by a licensed vet.

[deltawave]

Nobody's saying an overdose of a sedative will accomplish euthanasia (ie, actually ending the animal's life) but it MIGHT ease the poor thing's suffering and struggles temporarily while a vet is called. And yes, it can potentially cause the barbiturate to work more poorly, but if that were the case I'd opt for a captive bolt once the animal was quiet enough to do the job properly.

[Fiat Lux]

What about keeping a captive bolt gun on hand?

I could be wrong, but I think that doesn't fully kill them. At the slaughterhouse, I think they use a captive bolt to make them unconcious, then they are bled out, which is what kills them.

[DopyDgz]

One of the most unpleasent experiences of my life: I had just had back surgery, and was lying in a hammock in an apple orchard (great place to recover, and the hammock was hte most comfortable place for my back). One of my dogs took off, jumped the fence to a neighbors property. I hobbled off to find her but couldn't - but hwn I got back to the hammock....

...there she was !:winkgrin:
.. with the rabbit she had caught :eek:
.. and had ripped open :eek::eek:
.. that was still alive :mad::cry::mad:

My husband was not home, I was not supposed to get in a car, I had no clue who to call. So I wrung it's neck. :cry:
Second rabbit I have had to manually dispatch. First was one I raised that was injured getting it's foot caught in the pen.

I suppose some would think I am horrible, but it seemed more humane then letting it suffer.

[AdAblurr02]

<SNIP>
Remember, too that if you have insurance on your horse, some insurance companies require notification BEFORE euthanization and I think most require it be done by a licensed vet.


..... and THAT is what worries me the most.

Taking the personal responsibility to end the suffering of an animal you love is a very hard thing to do. I would not like it, but I am very proficient with my .357 and would use it if I had to. Helplessly standing by and watching my beloved animal suffer for what seems like way too long is something I would absolutely hate to have to do! I'd not trust a large heavy-boned horse to a .22, sometimes a .22 is not enough for a dog.

We (hubby and I) have had this discussion, and if it came right down to it, and the insured horse was obviously beyond saving, and we would have to wait on not only the vet, but the insurance company's say-so - we'd write off the insurance and not make the horse suffer. I don't think either of us could stand knowing we'd added hours of misery by waiting because of the insurance...............

[GaitedNightmare]

Expedient help for a critically injured animal would be a good thing to plan ahead for. I asked a vet what to do and he gave me a simple solution to euthanize an animal if it were necessary. Other than that I do have a gun and would definitely use it rather than watch an animal suffer.

Jennifer

[Where'sMyWhite]

Fiat Lux,

This is something I specifically talked to my insurance company about before I took out the mortality policy. They have someone on call 24 hours a day and told me that someone usually returns the call with 15 minutes. If it was a catastrophic injury, they would probably pay out anyway if it was an obvious emergency euthanization and a vet concurred postmortem that the horse would not have been able to be saved.

But, I would ask your specific agent since not all companies may cover a non-veterinarian euthanization.

[greysandbays]

It's not ALWAYS obvious that there is no choice but emergency euthanasia.

I'll spare the details, but I once had to drive 15 miles (after dark) at 75 miles an hour and run several stop signs in order to STOP some well-intentioned fool from insisting on shooting a horse hit by a car. Horse looked and probably felt like hell, but WAS NOT dying or even hurt all that bad, considering the circumstances and certainly not without hope of recovery.

It seemed obviously, beyond-all-doubt, hopeless to those on the scene who'd never seen worse. A horse almost died for nothing that night.

[hitchinmygetalong]

a syringe of sedative is a quiet and peaceful way, the animal just goes to sleep.

A very dangerous fallacy. Ever see what happens when the drugs go in an artery as opposed to a vein, or vice versa? Not very pretty, certainly not quiet and peaceful.

Emergency euthanasia is something every horse caretaker should discuss in depth with their veterinarian.

[PalominoMorgan]

You always hope you will never have to know these sort of things, but sadly at times we must.

To the person who mentioned a captive bolt gun, check with a large animal vet. I do believe they are about $450. (As I am recalling from a dairy discussion regarding humane euthenasia for cattle.) If you live near a dairy farm and are unable to reach a vet in a catastrophic emergency, try the farmer neighbor. Most have the tools and consitution to end the suffering of an animal. (They won't like it, but they might have slightly more experience with the situation.)

I never was the one to end a dairy cow's life, but there was more than one time when I was tempted to induce cardiac arrest with an IV to end the animal's suffering. Ultimately, it was not my final so to do so, but in all cases I saw the writing on the wall a few days before others came to the same conclusion that the animal could or would not recover.

Hugs to you and you friend, but good for you for wanting to have as much knowledge about the topic as possible. A good end is the greatest favor any of us can do for our animal friends. (After a great life of course.)

[Beverley]

A very dangerous fallacy. Ever see what happens when the drugs go in an artery as opposed to a vein, or vice versa? Not very pretty, certainly not quiet and peaceful.

Emergency euthanasia is something every horse caretaker should discuss in depth with their veterinarian.

Agreed- I much prefer a bullet having seen very ugly misses (ugliest, a foal euthanasia botched, with Mom nearby screaming, too:cry:).

And there was an article in the Chronicle, quite a few years ago now, about a faithful old pony being euthanized- all agreed his time had come, I believe he was past 30. Well, assuming he was dead, his body was placed on a wagon to take him to where his grave had been dug...and he came to, jumped to his feet, and jumped down off the wagon. His owners didn't have the nerve to try it again for several years!

[EquineLVR]

First I would like to say how terribly sorry I am. I cannot even imagine what an awful experience that was.

I will also chime in and say that even when you think you have the euthanasia planned out (no catastropic accident, but old age and complications) things can still go terribly wrong.

I euthanized my 20 yr old gelding due to complications of Heaves two months ago and its something that is now forever burned in my brain as one of the most horrific moments of my life. I still cry buckets of tears.

So what I am trying to say is - you only do what you can and think best in those situations.. some go well and some don't and there really is not anything you can do but your best.

My thoughts and prayers are with you. ((HUGS))

[Marcella]

The vet even carries a handgun in the truck...because sometimes chemical euthanasia isn't an option when blood pressure is too low or horse is freaking out or who know what can happen.

Huntsman always had a loaded .38. Whips had shot in their guns and some good bullets in a pocket. Huntsman said she had done the deed to a horse before, and to two hounds. One hound broke his hip, and one had gotten mauled by a wolf.

While you might think you can't do the deed, when you are standing there faced with a dire situation about ending it swiftly or letting the animal agonize, it isn't that hard to pull the trigger. And it is OK to cry and barf when it is over!!

[gubbyz]

Gaited nightmare, can you share the simple solution your vet gave you? I am curious. And is it for large and small animals?

[Wanderluster]

Agreed- I much prefer a bullet having seen very ugly misses (ugliest, a foal euthanasia botched, with Mom nearby screaming, too:cry:).

And there was an article in the Chronicle, quite a few years ago now, about a faithful old pony being euthanized- all agreed his time had come, I believe he was past 30. Well, assuming he was dead, his body was placed on a wagon to take him to where his grave had been dug...and he came to, jumped to his feet, and jumped down off the wagon. His owners didn't have the nerve to try it again for several years!

I remember that article. Do you think that you could find it?
This topic is so distressing but necessary none the less.

[Rudy]

I've always heard you do not slit a horses throat as a method of euthanasia(from what I've been told this can actually be a slow death inlike insome other animals) and that if bleedout is the only method possible in the situation, to use the artery at the rectum because it is the quickest.

[goeslikestink]

arhh dale i am so sorry for your mate,
i have never ever had to wiat more than 20mins for a vet to arrive ever, i can only imagine what a heart ache thing it was and the poor neddy
but please give hugs to you and your freind from me and remind her that the horse was in a great home and that she gave him her best xxx

[gazenna]

J SWAN.......Dont take my question personal.and keep in mind I have my own reasons for asking you this. How can you truly say that slitting an animals throat is painless? I'm sure that an animal its happened to did not tell you its painless, so how can you really know? I am not trying to turn this into a argument, like I said I have my reasons. I have no faith in that hala or kosher theory,again I have my reasons. All I can share is I was raised greek orthodox.

[Bluey]

This may answer your questions:

http://www.grandin.com/ritual/rec.ritual.slaughter.html

Especially this part:

http://www.grandin.com/ritual/qa.cattle.insensibility.html

Seems that, as an alternative to the preferred shot to the head, to comply with the religious requirements for animal slaughter of the Kosher and Halal groups, using a knife right, with the animal properly restrained, is acceptable, very quick and fairly painless.

If you have a severely injured horse that needs euthanizing immediately, ask your vet, but that may be an acceptable last resort method of euthanasia.

[Guin]

I could be wrong, but I think that doesn't fully kill them. At the slaughterhouse, I think they use a captive bolt to make them unconcious, then they are bled out, which is what kills them.

When I read James Herriott's books, he mentioned several times putting horses down (including one with tetanus) with the "humane killer" which I think is a captive bolt device. He definitely does NOT reference bleeding them out afterwards. It was clearly the method they were taught in vet school in the 1930s.

[deltawave]

Well of course running a knife through a horse's skin and into their jugular is going to hurt! The question isn't "does it hurt" but "is it a means of ending a suffering animal's struggles more quickly?". Done properly, an animal that isn't in shock and spiraling (with minimal cardiac output and blood pressure) could probably be bled out in a matter of minutes...so the 5 seconds of pain and a quick death vs. hours of suffering? I'd consider it. But you wouldn't get me near a horse's rectum with a knife! The jugular is easy to find and BIG and much safer for ME.

Edited to add: jugular AND carotid--so close by one another it would be possible to open both and bleed the animal even more quickly.

And I'm pretty sure the difference between insensible and dead with a captive bolt shot into the brain is semantics. :)

[Beverley]

I remember that article. Do you think that you could find it?
This topic is so distressing but necessary none the less.

I'm sure I no longer have that issue...I expect the Chronicle could find and reproduce for you though.

[Beverley]

I've always heard you do not slit a horses throat as a method of euthanasia(from what I've been told this can actually be a slow death inlike insome other animals) and that if bleedout is the only method possible in the situation, to use the artery at the rectum because it is the quickest.

Yes, a local vet here gave a briefing to a club I belong to about using the dorsal artery via the rectum if one needs to euthanize in the wilderness and has no gun. But...it does involve putting hand and arm in the rectum, which I wouldn't attempt if a horse isn't already down and not apt to thrash. No, animals I've seen with throats cut really don't suffer, it looks pretty awful but as with catastrophic injuries, shock and adrenalin kick in immediately. I recall a few years ago the story of a man in Africa who lost an arm to a lion? Of course in his case adrenalin must already have been flowing to the max, but he later recounted that surreally, there was no pain.

[greysandbays]

Anybody contemplating slitting a horse's throat has to remember that this is NOT an easy thing like slicing a vegetable with a paring knife. It takes a heck of a good knife (and not the kind of knife that citified yuppy/hippy scairt-of-guns folks are likely to have lying around), and a fair amount of force to do the job right. You have to make one, big, deep cut very quickly, and if you cannot muster the intestinal fortitude to weild a gun, you will find weidling a knife to do the deed no easier.

[lindac]

I found this video while doing a little research on cutting the throat as a euthanasia option.

WARNING : This has to be the most disturbing video I have ever seen! I almost threw up watching it.

It is a video of a Kosher slaughter house processing cows. They did not do it the way Temple Grandin advocates. It is disgusting. After watching this video I would not recommend cutting the throat of any animal.

http://www.petatv.com/tvpopup/video.asp?video=agri_short&Player=wm

[kookicat]

God forbid I ever have to do it, but where and how would you need to cut to bleedout a horse?

[Bluey]

I found this video while doing a little research on cutting the throat as a euthanasia option.

WARNING : This has to be the most disturbing video I have ever seen! I almost threw up watching it.

It is a video of a Kosher slaughter house processing cows. They did not do it the way Temple Grandin advocates. It is disgusting. After watching this video I would not recommend cutting the throat of any animal.

http://www.petatv.com/tvpopup/video.asp?video=agri_short&Player=wm

Why do you watch any PETA videos?
I am surely not going to, don't need nightmarish images that are of questionable origin.

Remember, there are laws against abuse and if abuse really happened, I think that it should be prosecuted, not used for propaganda to keep us from using animals.

You can't be sure they are not made up, you know they will be terrible, that is their idea.
To me, such propaganda videos are like sitting at an intersection for years, just so you get to video a wreck when it happens and then saying cars need to be banned, or staging a wreck, if they get tired of waiting when the wreck doesn't happen.:rolleyes:

[Bluey]

God forbid I ever have to do it, but where and how would you need to cut to bleedout a horse?

I would say never for most of us.
It would be very rare to be where a horse is injured so bad it is clearly terminal and if it is so bad, the horse is probably in shock or, like in the case of a badly broken leg, horses don't seem that concerned, not in much pain.

45 years ago, we were on a trail ride and this one arabian filly stepped on a manhole, slipped a little bit on it and her cannon bone broke, her leg was dangling.
She was standing there, wondering why her leg now didn't work and didn't seem to be in pain, was eating treats and grass we pulled for her, waiting for the renderer to come with his gun, which took about one hour.
We could not get the vet, that had already made the daily rounds of the stables and was gone.

I doubt most of us would ever have to euthanize a horse right now or let it suffer.

That one in a million chance we may need to, we at least know what to do and/or can tell someone else if we have help, if we can't ourselves.

[Where'sMyWhite]

It is a video of a Kosher slaughter house processing cows. They did not do it the way Temple Grandin advocates. It is disgusting. After watching this video I would not recommend cutting the throat of any animal.

This is fine as long as you realize that PETA's purpose is to shock your sensibilities and ...

The Kosher method of slaughter is a very old method used by the Jewish faith. It may not be something that Temple Grandin advocates but it does not mean it is wrong. Do additional research looking for the view of slaughter from the Jewish side. It looks worse than it really is when done correctly.

[lindac]

Why do you watch any PETA videos?
I am surely not going to, don't need nightmarish images that are of questionable origin.



The reason I watched it was that I had always heard that once the neck was cut, they lost blood pressure and were unconscious and dead within 10-20 seconds.
I am aware of PETA's agenda and I thought that it could not possibly be THAT bad. Sure it was an animal being slaughtered.

But what they (the people who say cutting the throat is humane) do not tell you is that about 20% do not die within seconds. For some reason they remain conscious and struggle and run around the pen for up to a couple of
minutes. It has to be a horrific last few minutes for those animals unlucky enough to have that happen to them.

Perhaps that is why vets recommend cutting the dorsal artery through the rectum. At least the animal probably feels it less, and does not have the panic of having it's airway, esophagus, and vessels wide open until it loses consciousness.

[Bluey]

The reason I watched it was that I had always heard that once the neck was cut, they lost blood pressure and were unconscious and dead within 10-20 seconds.
I am aware of PETA's agenda and I thought that it could not possibly be THAT bad. Sure it was an animal being slaughtered.

But what they (the people who say cutting the throat is humane) do not tell you is that about 20% do not die within seconds. For some reason they remain conscious and struggle and run around the pen for up to a couple of
minutes. It has to be a horrific last few minutes for those animals unlucky enough to have that happen to them.

Perhaps that is why vets recommend cutting the dorsal artery through the rectum. At least the animal probably feels it less, and does not have the panic of having it's airway, esophagus, and vessels wide open until it loses consciousness.

Just to put this in perspective, we have come upon coyote or mountain lion prey, already partially eaten and still alive, several hours after being brought down.

I think we humans should insure the fastest euthanasia possible, but the ocassional sad instance it doesn't go fast, be it at the vets or in a slaughterhouse, is still much easier than what tends to happen to prey in nature.
There, animals rarely just go to sleep peacefully in their old age.

[J Swan]

Anybody contemplating slitting a horse's throat has to remember that this is NOT an easy thing like slicing a vegetable with a paring knife. It takes a heck of a good knife (and not the kind of knife that citified yuppy/hippy scairt-of-guns folks are likely to have lying around), and a fair amount of force to do the job right. You have to make one, big, deep cut very quickly, and if you cannot muster the intestinal fortitude to weild a gun, you will find weidling a knife to do the deed no easier.

I had to help dispatch a deer this way. I've never wished for a concealed carry permit so bad in my whole life. I was in my truck and had been in the city and didn't have a concealed carry permit - so I didn't have a firearm handy.

It was over quickly - but it required strength, speed and accuracy. Very easy to screw it up. And I'm not sorry we did it. But this method is a very personal thing - and particularly distressing if the animal is already injured and in pain. A firearm or captive bolt is less personal and preferable, I'd say.

Halal and Kosher are supposed to be humane. Like anything else, mistakes happen, and sometimes there is incompetence. But a PETA video should not be taken as "the truth". Those folks could make opening a can of dog food look like abuse.

[Beverley]

The reason I watched it was that I had always heard that once the neck was cut, they lost blood pressure and were unconscious and dead within 10-20 seconds.
I am aware of PETA's agenda and I thought that it could not possibly be THAT bad. Sure it was an animal being slaughtered.

But what they (the people who say cutting the throat is humane) do not tell you is that about 20% do not die within seconds. For some reason they remain conscious and struggle and run around the pen for up to a couple of
minutes. It has to be a horrific last few minutes for those animals unlucky enough to have that happen to them.

Perhaps that is why vets recommend cutting the dorsal artery through the rectum. At least the animal probably feels it less, and does not have the panic of having it's airway, esophagus, and vessels wide open until it loses consciousness.

The only reason for the recommendation of the dorsal artery is that the bleeding is internal and less gross for the humans.

I'm sure you know that PETA heavily doctors its videos to maximize the shock effect. And over the years they haven't hesitated to subject animals to horrible deaths to make their own twisted political statements.
The unfortunate misses with throat slitting are horrible to watch, to be sure, but no more so than botched euthanasias.

[Sithly]

That peta video is the same one Temple Grandin was responding to here:

http://www.grandin.com/ritual/qa.cattle.insensibility.html

She says that's not how it's normally done. I'd believe her over peta any day.

Anyway, thanks for starting this thread. I was already considering buying a firearm, but I will definitely factor in this information when I decide what kind I will get. I'm not as worried about accidents on the farm, but I'd like to have an option when I'm out camping. The last place I camped didn't even have a farrier within 150 miles, let alone a vet. I've had nightmares about what I would do in that situation without a gun.

[carolprudm]

Info on Halal slaughter
http://www.themodernreligion.com/misc/an/an_slaughter.htm
Experimental Details:
1. Several electrodes were surgically implanted at various points of the skull of all animals, touching the surface of thebrain.
2. The animals were allowed to recover for several weeks.
3. Some animals were slaughtered by making a swift, deep incision with a sharp knife on the neck cutting the jugular veins and carotid Arteries of both sides; as also the trachea and esophagusHalal Method.
4. Some animals were stunned using a captive bolt pistol humane slaughter by the western method.
5. During the experiment, EEG and ECG were recorded on all animals to record the condition of the brain and heart during the course of slaughter and stunning.


Results and Discussion:
I - Halal Method
1. The first three seconds from the time of Islamic slaughter as recorded on the EEG did not show any change from the graph before slaughter, thus indicating that the animal did not feel any pain during or immediately after the incision.
2. For the following 3 seconds, the EEG recorded a condition of deep sleep - unconsciousness. This is due to a large quantity of blood gushing out from the body.
3. After the above mentioned 6 seconds, the EEG recorded zero level, showing no feeling of pain at all.
4. As the brain message (EEG) dropped to zero level, the heart was still pounding and the body convulsing vigorously (a reflex action of the spinal cord) driving maximum blood from the body: resulting in hygienic meat for the consumer.
II - Western method by C.B.P. Stunning
1. The animals were apparently unconscious soon after stunning.
2. EEG showed severe pain immediately after stunning.
3. The hearts of the animal stunned by C.B.P. stopped beating earlier as compared to those of the animals slaughtered according to the Halal method resulting in the retention of more blood inthe meat. This in turn is unhygienic for the consumer.
(Many thanks to Muslim Students Organization - University of Miami)


But you pretty much have to go ear to ear, almost decapitating the animal. I take my goats to the Halal butcher in town and while I don't watch them slaughtered or cleaned I have seen the butcher cut up a carcass. I'm sure mistakes happen but the knives I have seen him use are unbelievably sharp

[Sannois]

I found this video while doing a little research on cutting the throat as a euthanasia option.

WARNING : This has to be the most disturbing video I have ever seen! I almost threw up watching it.

It is a video of a Kosher slaughter house processing cows. They did not do it the way Temple Grandin advocates. It is disgusting. After watching this video I would not recommend cutting the throat of any animal.

http://www.petatv.com/tvpopup/video.asp?video=agri_short&Player=wm

that Video. Cattle are not slaughtered that way. I wish People would not post PETA videos. Theres something really fishy. :eek:

[ms raven]

A bit more info re: severing the aorta, the main blood vessel under the backbone, inside the horse. From the book, "How to be your own veterinarian (sometimes)" by Ruth B. James, DVM

"The person doing the procedure would hold a small, sharp knife or scalpel inside his hand, and reach inside the horse's rectum. Once inside to the length of his arm, he would make a deep, sweeping cut under the horse's backbone, severing the aorta."

----------

On a personal note, my horse is insured, (Via Canada and covered in the U.S.) and as far as my understanding is they would not need to be contacted prior for permission but they would need to be contacted immediately afterwards. I do have to "immediately engage a licensed vet to provide care or immediately engage a licensed vet to perform a post-mortem and autopsy unless expressly waived by the insurer."

My horse is boarded and I have a full time job at least a half hour from where she is. The things I fear the most are what she may be going through, not being contacting, not being able to get there in time to be with her, and the thought of the afterwards and an autopsy. As far as I've read it is brutal and awful and I'm not sure I could go through with that even for the sake of insurance. We arrive whole, we go whole, buried or cremated etc.

I would hope that I would have the strength and courage to do what had to be done if I had to and in the moment I imagine that nothing enters one mind other than ending the suffering of a dear friend.

A close friend of mine lost her mare this week to a catastrophic leg injury and another was lost to slip in a stall earlier this year. It is frightening how quickly things happen.

[deltawave]

Any insurance company that was hard-hearted enough to refuse to allow a suffering horse to be euthanized quickly in the setting of a CLEARLY catastrophic injury would never have my business again. IME calling them on the phone to discuss emergencies (although I've never faced this particular situation, thank God) is rewarding in that you can talk to a human and explain the problem quickly.

[J Swan]

deltawave - I used to have insurance on one of my horses. Though I had to call them prior to major medical decisions, they'd still cover the loss if it was an emergency euthanasia.

So something like a catastrophic injury would still be covered, though they'd want a statement from the vet or something before paying out, I have no doubt.

Not that I'd allow the horse to suffer just to get insurance money - but it did make me feel better that a purely welfare related decision would not likely be second guessed by an insurance adjuster.

[carolprudm]

Perhaps that is why vets recommend cutting the dorsal artery through the rectum. At least the animal probably feels it less, and does not have the panic of having it's airway, esophagus, and vessels wide open until it loses consciousness.

Done correctly it is over in seconds, but it's not a small cut, you have to go deep, ear to ear, almost decapitating the animal. I personally would NOT want my arm inside an animal who might panic.
Our son had to do it for a goat who had crawled under a bush hog

[MySparrow]

Thank you all for your responses and for what has developed into a very interesting discussion. My friend and I were both comforted to know that others had had similar experiences. I'm not sure why that comforted us, but it did.

I don't know if there is a good violent death, a death that does not come from our own clock reaching its end. I still don't know if I could have used a gun on him, had one been available. But I am grateful to all of you for your kind thoughts, your useful comments and information.

Dale

[GatoGordo]

Just thought some would find it interesting that the law (at least in my state and some others) DOES allow a veterinarian to euthanize a horse without the owner's consent if the vet determines that it would be inhumane to do otherwise and they have tried and could not get consent. E.g., a leg dangling by a thread, a colic with grey or purple gums that is throwing itself to the ground, etc.

JoZ, IMO there are situations where anyone can see that there is no doubt, such as a leg hanging by a thread, situations where the outlook is very poor but the horse is essentially stable (a bad break but the horse, as mentioned above, is calmer than the people are and still trying to eat), and there are situations where a non-medical person would think it to be hopeless which actually do hold hope for the horse. For example, I have seen a horse with a bad wound to the pastern and floppiness in the leg that bystanders thought to have broken its leg; in fact, it had a ruptured tendon and, while prognosis for riding soundness is poor, the vet is optimistic that he will most likely be able to be a comfortable and happy pasture pet. Some very painful and violent colics end up going to surgery and doing OK afterwards.

I personally would NOT use acepromazine in an emergency situation, as it does not provide pain relief, whereas all of the other commonly used sedatives do produce some measure of pain relief (xylazine, detomidine, butorphanol).

[CA ASB]

Depending on where you live, a well placed phone call to the local sherriff will provide a person who is trained in firearms. Depending on your local laws, they may or may not be able to assist.

If you are in a more suburban environment, animal control also will carry lethal dosages of items (non-firearm).