Lets talk about Breed Characteristics of WB's

[La Gringa]

What do you think are the main differences in the WB breeds. Do you think some lean more for one dicipline rather than another?

Now with all the intermixing of breeds, it seems that maybe they are all becoming very similar? Am I wrong?

Are our WB's starting to be very different than the European bred WB's?

I know this is a broad topic, but I am interested to see what what people think.

What is the difference say in the Belgian WB's and the Holsteiner? They seem to have very similar origins. How does that differ from Dutch?

Educate me.

I know that the Hannoverians are more "closed" than others to intermixing.. has that led to differences as well?

What do you think? :confused:

[Bugs-n-Frodo]

IMO The Trakehners seem to be very typey, often lighter than some of the other WBs. Personally, I think they seem to do best in eventing and dressage. Hol are BRILLIANT jumpers, once again,IMO. Most of the time, I feel as though it is not difficult for me to pick out a Hol or a Trakehner. The other WBs are harder for me to distinguish. I love my Trakehners and have spent a lot of time studying them, so, perhaps it is more difficult for someone else who has not spent as much time studying them, to pick one out of a crowd. Holsteiners have a certain look to them to me as well, so, if given a group of, say, 10 WBs and asked to identify, I feel confident about the Trakehner and Holsteiner, even the American bred ones. I have no idea if I answered your question thought. :lol:

[vandenbrink]

The different studbooks are all pretty much looking for the same type of horse. There are subtle preference between the studbooks, but many use breeding stock from many different registries.

MOST of us can no longer distinguish where a horse is registered by looking at the individual..or even by looking at the pedigree.

With the exception of the Trakehner ofcourse!

[acottongim]

Bugs - you can prob spot the TK easier because they are closed book, so their "look" is more ... what is the word?... "known??" I'm having a blonde moment and can't think of how to explain what I'm thinking. The other stud books allow the other registeries to be approved into their registery so you get an intermingeling of blood/type/temperment etc from all the "breeds". I say it this way since, with the exception of TK, the other registeries are just that, registeries, not breeds (I think, or does Hol allow others to be approved??).

[Renae]

The Dutch Warmblood is based on the native Dutch breed the Gelderlander, the the classic Gelderlander is a solid built chestnut horse with a blaze and 4 white stockings that moves with power from both ends. The Gelderlander is a dual purpose breed that should be suited for both riding and driving, the Dutch Warmblood is taking the Gelderlander base and speciaizing it for riding, the Dutch Harness Horse is taking the Gelderlander base and specializing it for driving. At least in the pedigrees of my horses, which are Dutch Harness Horses, the Dutch were mostly using Oldenburg and Selle Francais blood in the early-mid 20th century for outcross blood, through horses like the Oldenburgs Gambo by Grusus and the dam sire of Graaf Van Wittenstein, Diedrich, and the most notable Selle Francais would be L'Invasion. I think the love of the harness horse caused the Dutch to gather some of the German and French coaching blood that was loosing favor in its home countries and makes the Dutch horses a bit different from some of the other continental types. Maybe I am completely off base but that is what I have observed :)

[La Gringa]

The Dutch Warmblood is based on the native Dutch breed the Gelderlander, the the classic Gelderlander is a solid built chestnut horse with a blaze and 4 white stockings that moves with power from both ends. The Gelderlander is a dual purpose breed that should be suited for both riding and driving, the Dutch Warmblood is taking the Gelderlander base and speciaizing it for riding, the Dutch Harness Horse is taking the Gelderlander base and specializing it for driving. At least in the pedigrees of my horses, which are Dutch Harness Horses, the Dutch were mostly using Oldenburg and Selle Francais blood in the early-mid 20th century for outcross blood, through horses like the Oldenburgs Gambo by Grusus and the dam sire of Graaf Van Wittenstein, Diedrich, and the most notable Selle Francais would be L'Invasion. I think the love of the harness horse caused the Dutch to gather some of the German and French coaching blood that was loosing favor in its home countries and makes the Dutch horses a bit different from some of the other continental types. Maybe I am completely off base but that is what I have observed :)

I personally love the dutch type, and yes I can tell a difference in Dutch horses from some of the other WB's. I like the old type of Dutch a lot. Some of them didn't have the best heads originally though, that has been improved in modern breeding.

What about French Selle Francais vs others?

[Lafeyarabian]

I'm rather new to wb breeding. I started out with arabs (which I still have and love). I didn't want to move away from the arabs, but I wanted more size and competetiveness in the open show/market arena. So, I decided to cross my arabs to wb's. I did a lot of research and looked at tons of pictures/videos. What I noticed is that Dutch & Swedish wb's both have a more level flatter topline (which crosses well with the flatter more level arab topline). I feel that I can usually pick out DWB & SWB from others fairly consistantly just by looking at their topline.

[TouchstoneAcres]

Bugs - you can prob spot the TK easier because they are closed book, so their "look" is more ... what is the word?... "known??" I'm having a blonde moment and can't think of how to explain what I'm thinking. The other stud books allow the other registeries to be approved into their registery so you get an intermingeling of blood/type/temperment etc from all the "breeds". I say it this way since, with the exception of TK, the other registeries are just that, registeries, not breeds (I think, or does Hol allow others to be approved??).

You're right on because Traks are a BREED (closed book) and WBs are NOT. They are a type and reflect the conformation the panel wants to register at any time. Because they are a type not a true breed their offspring can be more variable. They breed across registries further blurring any distinctions.

Full disclosure: Yes I am biased, breeding a closed-for-over-400-years breed, Lipizzans. I have bred BWP and OLDNA too and love a good WB--I just can't call them a breed and think questions like the OP's can't be answered.

[acottongim]

You're right on because Traks are a BREED (closed book) and WBs are NOT. They are a type and reflect the conformation the panel wants to register at any time. Because they are a type not a true breed their offspring can be more variable. They breed across registries further blurring any distinctions.

Just to make sure... isn't that what I said?? (about TK??). I said they are a breed, vs the other WB which are registeries... except I wasn't sure if HOL also is closed?? The TK has been a breed since what, the 1700's?? so I would say that their type isn't all that varialbe except that they have become more "modern" over the years and less heavy. The only outcross that is allowed with TK is the occasional T'bred or Arabian (approved). Or are your last two sentences directed toward the other WB registeries?

Here is a funny for you... I have a filly that is by Oskar out of a 3/4 T'bred, 1/4 TK mare (Oskar is 1/4 Arab, the rest is all TK). I went into a recent show and the judge (who LOVES Hannos) stated (not asked) when we walked up "oh, another Hannovarian!" (and he said it with a very happy/proud note in his voice).

[tri]

I think you perhaps might tell the difference in the horses in europe to some extent. But not in America (with the exception of trakehners).

When the BWP started in Belgium, they imported a whole bunch of hanoverians. In Hanover, they do NOT have the same 50% hanoverian blood rule that the AHS has here in America so a hanoverian in Germany might only be 10% or less hanoverian blood. Almost every studbook uses holsteiner blood and selle francais blood to improve their jumper lines. In America, there are still a lot more TB mares being bred into warmblood breeding than ANYTHING else.

Warmbloods are named for their region. No one in America is breeding "true" hanoverian, dutch, belgian, or whatever warmbloods. I laugh when a neophyte breeder tries to tell me that.

There is a poll on this forum that proves that most go to whatever inspection is closest and convenient, not because there is a particular "type" they are breeding for.

[La Gringa]

I think you perhaps might tell the difference in the horses in europe to some extent. But not in America (with the exception of trakehners).

When the BWP started in Belgium, they imported a whole bunch of hanoverians. In Hanover, they do NOT have the same 50% hanoverian blood rule that the AHS has here in America so a hanoverian in Germany might only be 10% or less hanoverian blood. Almost every studbook uses holsteiner blood and selle francais blood to improve their jumper lines. In America, there are still a lot more TB mares being bred into warmblood breeding than ANYTHING else.

Warmbloods are named for their region. No one in America is breeding "true" hanoverian, dutch, belgian, or whatever warmbloods. I laugh when a neophyte breeder tries to tell me that.

There is a poll on this forum that proves that most go to whatever inspection is closest and convenient, not because there is a particular "type" they are breeding for.

That may be true here in America now, but originally there were differences.

The Selle Francais for example is still very different than an Oldenburg. Selle Francais are primarily jumping horses. Oldenburgs originally were carriage horses as well as sport/riding horses. There is a difference. The royal carriage horses for the UK were Oldenburgs.

When I see a Dutch WB come from Europe, they look very "Dutch" to me. I can tell. The ones that have been bred here, don't have that look. I recently saw a gorgeous imported gelding that just made me remember how much I loved that breed, and still do.. when I first saw them coming over here from Europe in the early 80's. Back then too, the Hannoverians were much heavier. I know that lightening the Hannoverian has been very much a goal of the modern breeders... the breed standard has changed.

Someone recently told me that some Holsteiners tend to have a flattish rump? What is meant by that. I hadn't noticed this. A lot are awesome jumpers.

[stolensilver]

Are Queenie's carriage horses really Oldenburg? All the Blues and Royals horses are Irish. The B and R are the ridden escort. I'd have thought her carriage horses would be Irish too?

Here we go: (Don't you just love Google?)

Quote: "For most of the year the stables are home to the working horses that play an important role in The Queen's official and ceremonial duties. They are mainly Cleveland Bays, the only British breed of carriage horse, and the Windsor greys, which by tradition always draw the carriage in which The Queen is travelling. As they may be on duty, undergoing training or having a well-deserved rest away from London, the horses are not always on view."

This is saying that the ridden horses are sourced differently from the carriage horses. But they still aren't Oldenburgs.

[La Gringa]

Are Queenie's carriage horses really Oldenburg? All the Blues and Royals horses are Irish. The B and R are the ridden escort. I'd have thought her carriage horses would be Irish too?

Here we go: (Don't you just love Google?)

Quote: "For most of the year the stables are home to the working horses that play an important role in The Queen's official and ceremonial duties. They are mainly Cleveland Bays, the only British breed of carriage horse, and the Windsor greys, which by tradition always draw the carriage in which The Queen is travelling. As they may be on duty, undergoing training or having a well-deserved rest away from London, the horses are not always on view."

This is saying that the ridden horses are sourced differently from the carriage horses. But they still aren't Oldenburgs.

I have a book that states that the Oldenburg was used as a carriage horse and were the Royal Carriage horses at least at one time.

[TKR]

Just because something has been printed, doesn't always mean it's accurate.

There are alot of interchangeables in the wb's, but I think some are a bit stricter about what they use. The Holsteiner registry seems to be clinging to just using "Holsteiner" lines - which will eventually have to be outcrossed. Oldenburg and Hanoverian seem to use alot of the same lines. The Dutch have used alot of Holsteiners and now seem to be using a few other German lines. The Swedish seems to be their own lines and stay a bit isolated, although I don't know their rules, so I guess they can be interchanged. The Danish have used alot of Trakehner as well as other German bloodlines. Each registry seems to have a direction they want to pursue and they use that to decide at each year's inspection what horses will best help them achieve those goals. They all still use Thoroughbreds pretty liberally, including Trakehners.
PennyG

[Jellybean83]

I can pick out a Selle Francais horse, just by the type of movement, and they are normally longer backed and maybe not as pretty as the other WBs. I find Dutch horses are the 'typiest' and prettiest w/the nicest heads excluding the Trakheners w/the Hannos closely behind. I want to say Hanno's are slightly heavier than the dutch horses and 'rounder'. Holsteiner's are the heaviest, and the older style ones are also on the long backed side.

[La Gringa]

I can pick out a Selle Francais horse, just by the type of movement, and they are normally longer backed and maybe not as pretty as the other WBs. I find Dutch horses are the 'typiest' and prettiest w/the nicest heads excluding the Trakheners w/the Hannos closely behind. I want to say Hanno's are slightly heavier than the dutch horses and 'rounder'. Holsteiner's are the heaviest, and the older style ones are also on the long backed side.

I disagree, I have a SF that is very pretty, he's also much larger than most. He's a bright bay very handsome. Alme was a handsome horse as well.

They aren't hunters though if you are talking about "pretty hunters". I know plenty of jumpers that are pretty that aren't hunters.

[La Gringa]

I also disagree about the Holsteiners, now they aren't the heaviest, historically they were heavier but that has changed dramatically.

[La Gringa]

Just because something has been printed, doesn't always mean it's accurate.



I agree but this happens to be in a source I do trust. It's in my Encyclopedia of the Horse, and is not just some little publication I would brush off as inaccurate.

[Renae]

It does make some sense the the Queen would use Oldenburgs, after all her husband's royal family is the House of Oldenburg (Mountbatten is the anglesized version of Battenberg). Here is an article that speaks of the Queen's grey Oldenburg team http://www.britishdrivingsociety.co.uk/news/2006_011_sir_john_miller.htm Hopefully Thomas1 will see this thread, he will know for sure what the breeding is of the Windsor Greys.

[Bugs-n-Frodo]

Now, to me, and this is STRICTLY MY OPINION, Holsteiners are very round looking to me. In general, they seem to have the crestier necks, the rounder rumps and some even look like giant sport ponies to me, which, IMO, is not a bad thing. They are athletic and surprisingly, to me, cat-like. When I think of Holsteiners, I do not think of a leggy horse, I think of a more substantial horse. That is not to say that there are not leggy Holsteiners out there, especially the modern types. Trakehners look very typey to me with a lovely head, nice length of neck and a very nice, slightly refined body type, not as round as a Holsteiner. Many Hannos look like Trakehners on steroids to me but that is being very general and I have seem some VERY substantial Hannos as well. IME, one of the most substantial breeds I have has experience with are the Dutch. The ones I have experienced have had a more "noble" head, some are not attractive, some are attractive but large, but it seems that their heads match well with their body types. They also tend to have HUGE feet, which is not a bad thing. I must reiterate though, this is MY experience.

[OakesBrae]

I've met (and ridden) quite a few WBs, and unfortunately, I think they are hard to tell here, there is so much intermixing...

I met a Hanno whose head, legs and croup were so Arab-typey that I THOUGHT he was arabian at first. This horse was stabled at the barn with my horse.

I have a Dutch whom is very "old-style" dutch, big thick bones, big mover, very athletic in a powerful way rather than a cat-like way (he's by Ulster, who was by Nimmerdor). Flatter crouped and rather thick shouldered.

I met a Belgian Warmblood who looked more like a short appendix.

I met another dutch who looked identical to a QH. Square Quarter-horsey head. Rounded butt.

[Renae]

:)For fun i will put together a photo gallery with conformation shots of all the major Warmblood breeds so we can have a go at guessing which is which. I will include:

Dutch Warmblood
Dutch Harness Horse
Gelderlander
Belgian Warmblood
Danish Warmblood
Irish Sport Horse
Selle Francais
Swedish Warmblood
Trakehner
Hannoverian
Holsteiner
Oldenburg
Throughbred

Any other major breed that you think I should find a conformation shot of and incude? I'll get a link posted sometime tonight and keep track of what percentage of people guessed each breed correctly

[tri]

The Selle Francias website states that the SF is a Thoroughbred type horse and it is one of the few studbooks that do use some TB mares versus "blood on top" like most.

BWP horses still seem heavier with not as attractive of a head. I disagree on the Dutch being the typiest though. What they are breeding in Oldenburg - NOT the oldenburgs in the U.S. - but actually in Germany, are so very typey, so many are black or dark and they do seem to have a certain way of moving, stepping more over from the shoulder then flicking out. The dutch are still stuck in that snap kneed, flick upwards motion that is, imho, more old fashioned.

But here in the U.S., it is a hodge podge with people taking horses to whatever inspection is closest and whatever they need to do to get a registered foal from their stallion of choice. It is a huge, ugly mess and American sporthorse breeding as a whole has no direction, no goals, and no leadership.

[tri]

Just for grins Renea, why don't you include an example of a sport bred quarter horse?

[Renae]

Just for grins Renea, why don't you include an example of a sport bred quarter horse?

Sure, that should be fun, though maybe I'ld throw in a Shagya Arabian too if I can find a nice conformation shot of one.

[stolensilver]

I hope I'll be able to spot the Irish Sport horse as IRL I can usually spot one of those from 50 paces. :lol:

[Bugs-n-Frodo]

Oh, now, I like the idea of the confo shots! This could be a very interesting and informative thread.

[Thomas_1]

Just been asked to come and post here and in relation to clearing up confusion about HRH The Queen's Windsor Greys.

In fact they're not a breed at all. Rather they're a cross bred horse chosen for conformation, type and function. Currently there's 12 of them

They're a heavyweight cob

[Jellybean83]

I can pick out a Selle Francais horse, just by the type of movement, and they are normally longer backed and maybe not as pretty as the other WBs. I find Dutch horses are the 'typiest' and prettiest w/the nicest heads excluding the Trakheners w/the Hannos closely behind. I want to say Hanno's are slightly heavier than the dutch horses and 'rounder'. Holsteiner's are the heaviest, and the older style ones are also on the long backed side.

This was obviously a generalization based on my person experience. There are exceptions in every breed. And i never said SFs were small! Most of the ones i've seen are quite big. And my generalization on SFs are from a horse shopping trip in France, as well as some of the SFs that show in my area.

[stolensilver]

Thanks for the info about the Windsor Greys. The same is not the case for the Blues and Royals black horses though is it? They all used to come from Ireland and now mostly come from Ireland which probably means they are generally Irish Draught x TB. I think they now have to search a little further afield too as apparently it is hard to find black horses of about 16.2hh in large quantities.

[La Gringa]

:)For fun i will put together a photo gallery with conformation shots of all the major Warmblood breeds so we can have a go at guessing which is which. I will include:

Dutch Warmblood
Dutch Harness Horse
Gelderlander
Belgian Warmblood
Danish Warmblood
Irish Sport Horse
Selle Francais
Swedish Warmblood
Trakehner
Hannoverian
Holsteiner
Oldenburg
Throughbred

Any other major breed that you think I should find a conformation shot of and incude? I'll get a link posted sometime tonight and keep track of what percentage of people guessed each breed correctly

Make sure they are 100% WB no TB parents.

When they are crossed it's harder to tell.

[La Gringa]

The Selle Francias website states that the SF is a Thoroughbred type horse and it is one of the few studbooks that do use some TB mares versus "blood on top" like most.

BWP horses still seem heavier with not as attractive of a head. I disagree on the Dutch being the typiest though. What they are breeding in Oldenburg - NOT the oldenburgs in the U.S. - but actually in Germany, are so very typey, so many are black or dark and they do seem to have a certain way of moving, stepping more over from the shoulder then flicking out. The dutch are still stuck in that snap kneed, flick upwards motion that is, imho, more old fashioned.


The Selle Francais horses I know have been heavier types. Alme was tall and the prodegy of his brother Elf III area also big and tall. They tend to be light on their feet though, even if they are big. My big horse 17.1 and 1600 lbs can turn on a dime and jump anything in sight. He's fun. (he's semi-retired now and still has a spring in his step. He's a great guy.

Some of them can be quirky in personality... mine is. He loves to kick out on course like the famous Galoubet did.

I disagree with the Belgian WB's. My mare has the nicest head and she passed it on to her baby. That Cuervo Gold that Margie is riding right now also had a decent head. Many I have known have had ok heads. They have a lot of SF and Holsteiner in their breeding.

I love the Dutch old fashionedness. I prefer it actually. I recently saw an old type Dutch Gelding in the hunt field, that I was drooling over. I love their bone and their minds as well.

[Renae]

Make sure they are 100% WB no TB parents.

When they are crossed it's harder to tell.

I have been looking at the pedigrees for the pictures I am choosing and sifting through for horses who are mostly bred form the stock of the studbook they represent. almost done :)

[grayarabpony]

Actually I've always thought that Selle Francais horses were among the most variable of warmbloods.

[Renae]

So here are our 15 horses for our guess the breed game http://picasaweb.google.com/PerfectRenae/Warmbloods

They are of the following breeds:

Shagya Arabian
Quarter Horse
Dutch Warmblood
Dutch Harness Horse
Gelderlander
Belgian Warmblood
Danish Warmblood
Irish Sport Horse
Selle Francais
Swedish Warmblood
Trakehner
Hannoverian
Holsteiner
Oldenburg
Throughbred

I tried my best this afternoon the fidn decent conofrmation shots of horses which represt their breeding (as in KWPN + KWPN= KWPN, not Old + Hol= KWPN). Sorry if it turns out in the end that affecianados of ceratin breeds think I picked out a bad represntative. i will keep tally of how accurate the gourp is on a whole :)

[tri]

La Gringa, Darco is in so many BWP horses. He is known as being rather coarse with a not very attractive head. His bloodline (parco, etc) is supposed to cross very well with our TB mare base as the general consensus is that he needs a lot of blood because of the coarsness to make more modern looking offspring. I am sure your BWP horse is very attractive.

At many of the stallion approvals in Belgium for quite a few years now, there have been more Darco sons than ANYTHING else.

[jilltx]

1 Dutch Warmblood
2 Quarter Horse
3 Dutch Harness Horse
4 Selle Francais
5 Trakehner
6 Holsteiner
7 Swedish Warmblood
8 Irish Sport Horse
9 TB
10 Oldenburg
11 Hanoverian
12 Shagya
13 Danish WB
14 Gelderlander/Gronigen
15 Bavarian WB

I still think we're talking type not breed for most mentioned. No Gypsy Vanners??? :p

[Bugs-n-Frodo]

My guesses, and I ma taking time to think about them are:

#1 Shagya
#2 QH
#3 Dutch Harness Horse
#14 Gelderlander
#15 TB

Those are my guesses so far...

[Fairview Horse Center]

Not guessing the breeds, but I will take #13. :yes: :winkgrin:

[TKR]

So, La Gringa -- the printed word WAS incorrect after all? I've seen so many things printed about horses that were untrue or inaccurate I have become very wary.

PennyG

[La Gringa]

My guesses are

1. Hannoverian
2. Dutch Harness
3. Arabian
4 Selle Francais
5. Oldenburg
6 Holsteiner
7. Dutch WB
8. TB
9 Trakehner
10 QH
11 Gelderlander
12 Swedish
13. BWP
14 Irish
15 Danish

I am not sure about some, I may be totally off!

:D

[Renae]

jilltx is 40% correct (but Jill LOL there is no Bavarian Warmblood in those pictures, I listed the 15 breeds that I included)

Bugs-N-Frodo you are 60% correct in your guesses

La Gringa you are only 13% correct

[Equibrit]

For the purpose of this thread - would you define "breed" and "type"?

[Renae]

For the purpose of this thread - would you define "breed" and "type"?

Breed "Genetics. a relatively homogenous group of animals within a species, developed and maintained by humans." from the Random House Dictionary. I do not believe a breed has to be a closed book registry, one can breed for phenotype and have a breed as well as exclusive genotype. And in closed book registries just because you are using a controlled set on genes that doesn't mean that you always get the same phenotype.

[jilltx]

jilltx is 40% correct (but Jill LOL there is no Bavarian Warmblood in those pictures, I listed the 15 breeds that I included)

Bugs-N-Frodo you are 60% correct in your guesses

La Gringa you are only 13% correct

Belgian Warmblood then. I only wrote down BWP.

No fair. Bugsy only answered 5, so I'd say the percentages above are a little skewed! :lol:

[eqsiu]

I would like to point out that even though the Trakehner studbook is "closed," they outcross to TBs and arabs. In my book that counts as and open studbook.

[jilltx]

I would like to point out that even though the Trakehner studbook is "closed," they outcross to TBs and arabs. In my book that counts as and open studbook.

It's my understanding that they Trakehner book only allows Arab and TB blood to be used for a couple of years, then it closes its books again. They also don't allow allow outcrossing with other WB registries, which I think keeps them more true to type.

JMHO of course, and the only wrong answer is a breed/type/registry that doesn't work for you :winkgrin:

[Bugs-n-Frodo]

I know Jaci, but, I have been watching kids and busy busy busy expecting and preparing for company so I have not had the time to stare at the pics to figure them all out. I hate getting answers wrong. :lol: And, you are correct about the Trakehner Stud Book, they are closed to ANY other WB type and do outcross to Arab and TB to infuse new blood and improve type.

[tri]

My guesses - it was hard.

1. Oldenburg
2. QH
3. Shagya
4. Gelderlander
5. Danish
6. Selle Francais
7. Dutch
8. TB
9. Dutch Harness
10. Hanoverian
11. Holsteiner
12. BWP
13. Trakehner
14. Irish
15. Swedish

[arnika]

OK, here's my try:

1. Oldenburg
2. Quarter Horse
3. Dutch Harness Horse
4. Dutch WB
5. Selle Francais
6. Holsteiner
7. Danish WB
8. Thoroughbred
9. Trakhener
10. Hannoverian
11. Belgian WB
12. Irish Sporthorse
13. Shagya Arab
14. Gelderlander
15. Swedish WB

How'd I do? ;-)

[Renae]

Tri got 13% correct, arnika 47%

Of the 4 people who have guessed all 15, so far there are 3 breeds that have been guess correctly 75% of the time and 2 breeds that have been guessed correctly 50% of the time. 5 of the breeds have not been guessed correctly at all yet, and very inetrestingly t me is so far no one has picked out the Trakehner, when it is the Trakehner at the beging of this thread that people thought they could pick out. Hopefully more people will guess, I think it will be fun and educational at the end to discuss slight differences in breed standards for breeds that for the most part are all being bred to do the same thing and why some of these breeds are unique and reckognizable and some more interchangable, and perhaps with some of these breeds why maybe the picture I chose perhaps may or may not have been the most characteristic example of the breed (I really was trying to find nice conformation shots of horses whose breeding best represented the breed they were supposed to be) and further photo essays on differences :)

[Fairview Horse Center]

Ok, for what it is worth, I will give it a shot.

Dutch Harness Horse = 1
Quarter Horse = 2
Danish Warmblood = 3
Dutch Warmblood = 4
Oldenburg = 5
Gelderlander = 6
Swedish Warmblood = 7
Throughbred = 8
Hannoverian = 9
Trakehner = 10
Holsteiner = 11
Irish Sport Horse = 12
Shagya Arabian = 13
Selle Francais = 14
Belgian Warmblood = 15

[Renae]

Darlyn 47%

[acottongim]

OK, partial list - I have been swamped with work so haven't had a chance to really pick apart the group, and I'll admit that there are a couple that I am flip flopping on, but here are my guesses off the cuff:

2 is the QH
3 is the Dutch Harness
8 is the T'bred
9 is the Hanno
10 is the TK
11 is the Dutch WB
12 is the Shagya
14 is the Belgian WB
14 is the Gelderlander
15 is the Arab

?????? I'm really on the fence with a few - and I would LOVE to know the pedigrees of the ones that are posted once all is said and done!

[La Gringa]

jilltx is 40% correct (but Jill LOL there is no Bavarian Warmblood in those pictures, I listed the 15 breeds that I included)

Bugs-N-Frodo you are 60% correct in your guesses

La Gringa you are only 13% correct

It was hard!

Will you post the answers soon? PM them to me!!

[TKR]

Ok, I'm sure this is wrong, but these are my guesses without looking at the other guesses:

1. Danish
2, QH
3. Dutch Harness
4. Dutch
5. Hanoverian
6. Holsteiner
7. Swedish
8. TB
9. Oldenburg
10. Shagya
11. SF
12. Irish
13. TK
14. Belgian
15. Gelderlander

PennyG

[Jellybean83]

I'm pretty sure the Trak is #13, can you PM me if i'm right?? I'll try the rest later, i'm on my way out

[myrna]

and i thought the Trak was #10.............

[Renae]

TKR you got 60% pf them correct :)

acottogim of the ones you guessed you got 56% right

[Renae]

For a hint I will add the dam sires of the 15 horses
1-Zandigo
2-Dixie Brass
3-Kroonpins
4-Raimondo
5-Weltmeyer
6-Calvados
7-Utrillo
8-Lyphards Wish
9-Donnerschwee
10-Tycoon
11-Elf III
12-Clover Hill
13-Sulayman
14-Unitas
15-Chin Chin

And I apologize as I really tried to find horses who were bred as much to the book they were registered in as possible but with some of the smaller registries it was hard, so some of the horse's dam sires are not the same book as the horse as I have found a nice picture of.

[La Gringa]

Horse 11 is in no way Elf III. I have his photograph, as he his my gelding's sire and he looks nothing like that horse.

The hind sock on that horse is on the wrong leg, and he's completely the wrong color.

This is Elf III (Selle Francais) http://www.vulomedia.com/images/33907ElfIII.jpg

[Bugs-n-Frodo]

1. Dutch WB
2. QH
3. Dutch Harness
4. Holsteiner
5. Hanoverian
6. BWP
7. Swedish
8. TB
9. Oldenburg
10. Trakehner
11. SF
12. ISH
13. Shagya
14. Gelderlander
15. Danish


Those are my guess but there are a few I am not sure about. Ok, so, did I atleast get the Trakehner correct?

[Bugs-n-Frodo]

LG, she was not saying that those were horses themselves, she was saying that they were the DAM'S sire.

[La Gringa]

LG, she was not saying that those were horses themselves, she was saying that they were the DAM'S sire.

Ok, I get it. Sorry, I thought those were the horses themselves.

On horse 6 I can see a visable Holsteiner Brand, but Chin Chin (bay Stallion from Mexico) is a Holsteiner also (15).

Is horse 15 a BWP?

[La Gringa]

1-Zandigo - Dutch
2-Dixie Brass -
3-Kroonpins - Gelderlander
4-Raimondo - Danish
5-Weltmeyer - Oldenburg
6-Calvados - Holsteiner
7-Utrillo - Trak
8-Lyphards Wish - TB
9-Donnerschwee - Hannoverian
10-Tycoon - QH
11-Elf III - Selle Francais
12-Clover Hill - Irish
13-Sulayman Arabian
14-Unitas Swedish
15-Chin Chin BWP

[Bugs-n-Frodo]

Oh shoot, number 4 is the Danish WB... That is what I wrote down infront of me and I copied it wrong... I do not have the Hol.

[Renae]

LG, she was not saying that those were horses themselves, she was saying that they were the DAM'S sire.

Yes, horse number 11 is not Elf III, Elf III is horse 11's grandfather.

Bugs-n-Frodo you got 80% correct

Okay before I revealed any bloodlines of the 6 people who put in 15 guesses here are the % correct for each breed:
Belgian Warmblood 33%
Danish Warmblood 0%
Dutch Harness Horse 50%
Dutch Warmblood 17%
Quarter Horse 83%
Gelderlander 33%
Hanoverian 17%
Holsteiner 67%
Irish Sport Horse 50%
Oldenburg 17%
Selle Francais 17%
Shagya Arabian 33%
Swedish Warmblood 50%
Thoroughbred 83%
Trakehner 17%

[Bugs-n-Frodo]

# 6 is the Holsteiner and 15 is BWP... ah heck, those are my final answers and now I have very much cornfused myself I will be putting the kids to bed and contemplating my spinning head... :lol:

[Bugs-n-Frodo]

Oh man, did I mess my score up now? :lol:

[La Gringa]

It's hard even with the sire names, some breeds have multiple horses named these names!

Some I knew just by the name but I am sure I am still way off.

ahh.

Cool test though!

[Bugs-n-Frodo]

It's hard even with the sire names, some breeds have multiple horses named these names!

:yes: :yes:

[Renae]

Okay, here's the full list, who is who:
1-Dutch Warmblood- Special D (Metall-Olympic Ferro X Haafke-Zandigo)
2- Quarter Horse- Moves Like An Indian (Indian Artifacts-Artful Move X Camass-Dixie Brass)
3-Dutch Harness Horse- Igor (Waterman-Noran X Suzan-Kroonpins)
4-Danish Warmblood- Lando (Lancier-Landgraaf I X Silvia-Raimondo) Was hard to find any horses with mutli-generational Danish breeding, so picked Lando as his dam and second dam are Danish, sorry Danes if you feel misreped
5-Hanoverian- Danone (De Niro-Donnerhall X Well Done-Weltmeyer)
6- Holsteiner- Connection (Caretino-Caletto II X Ange- Calvados)
7-Swedish Warmblood- L.A. Baltic Inspiration (L.A. Baltic Sun-Pontus X L.A. Utrilla-Utrillo)
8-Thorughbred- Likoto (Fit To Fight- Chieftan X Like A Leaper-Lyphards Wish)
9- Oldenburg- Smetana (Sunny Boy-Sandro Hit X Hadonna-Donnerschwee)
10-Trakehner- Le Rouge (Pret A Porter-Ivenel X Lantana V-Tycoon)
11-Selle Francais- Diamant de Semilly (Le Tot de Semilly-Grand Veneur X Venise De Cresles-Elf III)
12-Irish Sport Horse- Cruise On (Crusing-Sea Crest X In Clover-Clover Hill)
13-Shagya Arabian- Basyl (Bahadur-Herold X Thirza-Sulayman)
14-Gelderlander- Laurentz (Bazuin-Satelliet X Erika-Unitas)
15-Belgian Warmblood- Carembar de Muze (Narab de Reve-Quidam de Revel X Ta Belle de Sombeke-Chin Chin) again very hard to find a BWP horses with BWP breeding, but this horse's dam line id Belgian back to the 5th dam, before that the dam line is Gelders

[Renae]

Ok, of the warmblood breeds theHolsteiner was the one guess with the most accuracy. For those who guesses 6 as a Holsteiner what about that horse says Holsteiner? Is it just the little swiggle of a brand that was the only thing that lead you to say Holsteiner or did you realy on other characteristics.

For all those who said they could pick out a Trakehner why was Le Rouge so difficult to guess as being a Trakehner? I think its is interesting that a few people mixed up the Trakehner and the Shagya Arabian.

I thought the Irish Sport Horse and Dutch Harness Horse were pretty obvious, but I would not have picked out the Swedish Warmblood I don't think, so I guess some of you have an eye for Swedish horses. The Quaret ores, even though he is half-TB is blatantly obvious, IMO, hust by the sort of topline he has.

[myrna]

Yeah .i was right on the trakehner,now my mare will still talk to me!!!!!! especially if i have cookies!

[jilltx]

Bugsy :lol: what's with watching the kids??? Something you want to tell me?

Amended list of what I think is correct: (I don't like to be wrong either, Bugsy, but I just answered on my first gut feeling from looking at the photos).
1 KWPN
2 Quarter Horse
3 Dutch Harness Horse
4 Danish Warmblood
5 Hanoverian
6 Holsteiner
7 Swedish Warmblood
8 Thoroughbred
9 Oldenburg
10 Trakehner
11 Belgian Warmblood
12 Irish Sporthorse
13 Shagya
14 Gelderlander
15 Selle Francais

Oh crap! I spent the last hour researching and now the finalized list is posted!

Nice job Renae! That was fun. :)

FYI the only reason I "guessed" Swedish Warmblood is that I am familiar with that horse. :winkgrin:

[DownYonder]

I couldn't see the pics with my browser (Firefox) - but it sounded like a fun game!

[acottongim]

Hey, I guessed TK correctly! :D Some of the ones that people thought were TKs though did have TK way back in their pedigrees - can give them the benifit of the doubt for it (trying to help LOL).

Some of them were easy, but some were very hard - even after the dam sires were up! Great game!

[OakesBrae]

Well, I had quite a hard time, but succesfully identified the:
QH
Dutch Harness
Gelderlander
Danish WB (though that was a fluke)
Irish Sport Horse
Holsteiner

Which is interesting to me, because they were the only ones other than 11 (which I was SURE was KWPN) that I was "sure of".

This is interesting and says something about breeding...but I'm not sure what, because that QH being so typey doesn't tell me that the breed standards are working (since the QH is pretty much a "closed" breeding, except for the addition of TB blood). Same thing with the Trak (which many people had success with, I goofed up the Trak & TB), and Irish Sport Horse.

Very interesting!

[jilltx]

The ones I correctly identified off the bat were the Dutch, QH, Dutch Harness, Gelderlander, Holsteiner and Swedish Warmblood (who is sired by a Hanoverian...but that was a cheater because I'm familiar with that horse).

Many of them I had as a toss up of two or three breeds (8 ISH or TB, 13 Shagya or Selle Francais, 9 Old or TB...) I just went with my gut the first try and you see how that ended up! :lol:

Honestly, one of the reasons I picked 13 originally in my head as Shagya was the bridle. The ones I had the hardest time with were Danish WB, Belgian WB and apparently TB which surprises me. I'm usually pretty good at picking out a good TB.

[La Gringa]

lets do another, someone find more horses to guess.

:winkgrin:

[coriander]

1 - Danish Warmblood
2 - Quarter Horse
3 - Shagya Arabian
4 - Selle Francais
5 - Dutch Warmblood
6 - Dutch Harness Horse
7 -TB
8 - Oldenburg
9- Trakehner
10 - Swedish Warmblood
11- Hannoverian
12- Holsteiner
13 - Irish Sport Horse
14 - Gelderlander
15 - Belgian Warmblood


*steals away fearing she's got a really low % correct*