Pony size for driving

[Formosus]

I'm considering a section a welsh mare as my pleasure driving partner.
She is 11.3 hands high. Is that to small? We live in the prairies, our driving will mostly be on the roads over flat terrain and in the arena.
What do you guys think? Is she to small for serious driving (couple of time a week, about an hour or two max-when she is back in shape).

[pricestory]

I think it totally depends on what you want to do and how big you are.
If you want to compete in CDE and will have to carry a navagator and maybe do hills, yes, she maybe too small.
If you just want to putter around, maybe do some pleasure shows, she is probably fine.
I have friends who live in the hills of Western NC that think their Dartmoor is too small at 12.2h to compete in the hills with 2 people. I have another friend with a 12 h Amish pony, probably has some STB in him, who has an ultra light carriage and is tiny and plans to compete him in CDE.
I'm on the fluffy side and I would think for puttering around, 12 h would be ok if I stayed mostly on the flat but probabaly not if we were doing much hills.

[horseyfolks]

I would like to add one thing to what Price has posted. She is absolutely on the money when she says "it totally depends on what you want to do and how big you are". Sometimes, in an attempt to be politically correct we tend to ignore the "how big you are" part :D:winkgrin:. It has been my experience that it also depends on the individual pony and the level to which he is conditioned.

As a for instance.... my daughter competes in CDEs with a pony. The first pony she competed with was a 12.2 hh Hackney named Pita. I'm sure some on this board remember Pita. He weighed 600 pounds at his heaviest and was very refined and delicate looking.

Sam showed Pita at Training and then Prelim level CDEs. Her marathon carriage weighed 255 pounds. Sam and her navigator weighed (depending on which 'gator) between 300 and 330 pounds. With harness that put the load the pony was pulling at roughly his own body weight (approx 600 pounds). When doing Dressage or Cones Sam drove her pony Spider Phaeton. Sam weighed 150 pounds and the Spider weighed 350 pounds so including harness the pony was still pulling close to his body weight.

EVERYTIME we went to a CDE someone would make a comment about Sam's pony being too small. At last years Georgia International (a tough marathon course) it was predicted that Pita would not finish the course because he was too small. Thank Goodness no one told Pita. He won his class overall as well as winning the marathon by a wide margin.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that while it is very important for the driver to tailor the load to the pony, there is really no set amount of weight a certain size pony can pull.

It's kind of like that old saying down here in Florida concerning dogs..... It's not the size of the dog in the fight, it's the size of the fight in the dog. I kind of think it applies to ponies also ;):cool::yes:.

Don

[stryder]

Welsh Mountain Ponies (Sect. A) originally were used to pull coal carts out of the Welsh mines. They're tough, quick and have stamina. But as others have said, if you want to race, you'll want to keep the total load and terrain in mind.

[Formosus]

I'm not planning on racing!! CDE is not in my future with this little mare-maybe with what she teaches me I will upgrade to a younger, bigger welsh version but for now I'm talking: going down the road and learning the ropes. I'm not light (ahrm!) but the cart is and my harness is nylon...
I've heard that welsh are just really tough little horse but I don't want to be unfair to the little mare..

[stryder]

maybe with what she teaches me I will upgrade to a younger, bigger welsh version

Maybe you won't upgrade, because you'll just fall in love with this little mare and she'll steal your heart!:yes:

I grew up with Welsh ponies. LOTS and LOTS of them. They're simply amazing, and if properly handled when young, "as advertised" - smart, tractable and usually steady. And they love to work. Good luck and have fun!

[Mngirl]

In my opinion she is not too small, she is perfect! I currently drive a 10.2 shetland and a 10.3 welsh and they handle it just fine. I do lots of trail driving on fields, and roads, mostly I am by myself. Otherwise I do try to stay with average to small size passengers, and make the length of the trip according to the "load" that I have with and the condition the pony is in at the time. My 10 year old and I have taken the shetland out for 5+ mile drives, and she has no problem with it. Really doesn't get tierd. If I would have Hubby with (he's 6'2") a mile would be a lot. Lucky for me he does not ask for a drive very often!

I use to drive a 38" pony also. Tough little bugger that could easily pull 2 average size people around. He was alot like the energizer bunny, he just kept going and going and........

Once you drive a pony, you may never want to drive a full size horse! I have driven some very nice horses, but I really love to drive my ponies!

[Thomas_1]

I'm not planning on racing!! CDE is not in my future with this little mare-maybe with what she teaches me I will upgrade to a younger, bigger welsh version but for now I'm talking: going down the road and learning the ropes. I'm not light (ahrm!) but the cart is and my harness is nylon...
I've heard that welsh are just really tough little horse but I don't want to be unfair to the little mare.. I've got welsh section A's and I reiterate that it depends what you want to do and what YOUR weight is.

Welsh mountain ponies are hardy and stoic but you've a duty to look after them and also appreciate that they've changed drastically since their early development and are often of the type more like a small riding horse.

Your carriage can be the lightest and best balanced 2 wheeler in the world but if you weigh (let's say) 200 lbs that's a lot of weight. What is the combined weight of vehicle and passengers? Is it a 2 or 4 wheeler?

[Drive NJ]

As others have said, it depends on where you are driving (hilly or not, rough ground or not, etc) and who's going along (alone, lightweight, with others etc.).

Personally, since you don't already own her, unless you are in love and she's really special, I'd be inclined to go a bit bigger so there is less of a worry about taking along a friend etc.

[MSP]

Is there a weight formula/rule for driving? With riding you can use the 20% rule to estimate a maximum riders weight.

[Dreamboat Annie]

I have a 3 year old mini appy gelding, that I intend to teach to drive, he is a feisty little bugger, and I don't think he will have any problems hauling my fluff around....I hope to eventualy take him to some pleasure shows...Cathy

[clanter]

I have a 3 year old mini appy gelding, that I intend to teach to drive, he is a feisty little bugger, and I don't think he will have any problems hauling my fluff around....I hope to eventualy take him to some pleasure shows...Cathy


Go for it as minis can pull and will work easily in harness.

[LostFarmer]

Is there a weight formula/rule for driving? With riding you can use the 20% rule to estimate a maximum riders weight.

The rules that the old horse farmers used was no more than 15% of the horses weight in drag for all day. I would think 10% to 15% in draft would be fine. So if you have a 400 lb large mini then could pull no more than 50 to 60 lbs in drag. Drag is a function of weight, wheel type, driving surface, and terrain. In other words it depends. :cool:

LF

[miraclewelsh]

Maybe you won't upgrade, because you'll just fall in love with this little mare and she'll steal your heart!:yes:

How true! Welsh have a way of doing that... (stealing your heart, that is... :-))

[Wowelsh]

As other people said, "It depends". We don't have hills in our area of FL, but our Ollie (permanent measurement card of 11.3 1/3" and 550 lbs.) is up to most any challenge, but then he is a stallion...very muscular and built like a tank, with accompanying "can do" attitude.

When JoAnn had him in training, he was regularly pulling a puddle jumper made for pony pairs or large ponies, (of course) with JoAnn on board and they did their real work in the deep sand of a neighboring orange grove. We drove some trails one morning with 4 full sized adults (none of us featherweights...LOL) on the same PJ and he never broke a sweat. When we hit some hills, 3 of us did get off though...LOL.

You just need to know your pony and don't overface her. You can probably have a lot of fun with her and if you decide you want something bigger, you can always add another for a pair ;) .

[Wowelsh]

As other people said, "It depends". We don't have hills in our area of FL, but our Ollie (Welsh, Sect. A with permanent measurement card of 11.3 1/3" and 550 lbs.) is up to most any challenge, but then he is a stallion...very muscular and built like a tank, with accompanying "can do" attitude.

When JoAnn had him in training, he was regularly pulling a puddle jumper made for pony pairs or large ponies, with JoAnn on board (of course), plus they did their real work in the deep sand of a neighboring orange grove. We drove some trails one morning with 4 full sized adults (none of us featherweights...LOL) on the same PJ and he never broke a sweat. When we hit some hills, 3 of us did get off though...LOL.

You just need to know your pony and don't overface her. You can probably have a lot of fun with her and if you decide you want something bigger, you can always add another for a pair ;) .

[Formosus]

I just wanted to give an update on my 11.3 hh welsh pony mare. I've had her since the middle of November last year and this weekend we took our 50th drive together.

She is AWSOME!!! oh my god, never thought it would be so much fun. She is small ennough that my son who is 7 yrs old and my "groom" on our regular outings can handle her.

She is totally capable of pulling me and him in our little two wheeled cart everywhere. We have some thick gravel on our roads in spot and although she suddenly has to put some effort into it it barely slows her down. I even brought my sister (another adult of my humm.. heft) and she trotted on even though some thick grass with no trouble at all.

Oh and the other day we discovered a field (I'm talking 30 acres ++ here) of grass that was cut because it is a sod farm. Oh wow!! that was so much fun: no goffer holes, no bumbs just smooth rolling green golf course-like filed: weeeeeee!!:winkgrin:

So it is the perfect size it seems! My only issue and I discussed it on another post is that she is fat, fit but fat. We are working on that with increased driving time and soaked hay but for the subject at hand, for the type of driving we do we are doing GREAT!!! Thank you for the advice.

[Drive NJ]

Glad to hear your pony is working out so well for you. Happy endings are always good to hear.

Not to rain on your parade again, but the farmer has given you permission to drive on his sod farm right? Only asking cause around the farm our guys live on there are several sod farms and they would scream bloody murder if we ever set foot on that rolling lawn because it IS somebody's lawn to be and the farmer's crop. Hoof prints, tire tracks can damage his crop and cost him money We aren't lucky enough to have the kinds of public and semi public trails they do in England and we don't want to tick off landowners so they don't want horses anywhere around.

Here's hoping he left you a track around the edge and that's what you were talking about or you find some other field edges to enjoy near home.

Happy trails.

[Formosus]

Hi,
No tracks were left and I went mostly around the edge. I got the permission of the guy since he was out just finishing to "mow the lawn" so to spea:coolk (huge tractor with sort of bubble tires: very odd looking) and he said it was fine when the weather was dry but not when it was damp as it could damage the turf.
It will be cut and rolled up in a few weeks (sniff sniff) I have to find a day to go back at leat once just for the Whhheeeee! feeling.:cool:

[Drive NJ]

Good for you... keep this guy as a friend. Great place to drive then.

[kearleydk]

Back from the wagon train where I asked some weight questions. Our covered wagons are built on Pioneer running gear. With passengers and baggage they might weigh 1200 to 1500 pounds. My more eager mare, Edith, pulled hard all day long and probably did 90% of the work because she was worried about her colt who kept running ahead. Edith is a Quarter Horse draft cross and could not weigh over 1500 pounds yet she pulled that wagon up grade all day long and showed no ill effects.

In 2005 we had a "people mover" wagon in the train that went close to 6000 pounds when loaded. It was drawn by a 4 up yet still the team would be pulling close to 100% of their weight up long grades.

Dick

[Cartfall]

VSE classes were offered but they had to do the same 5km course the big horses did. There were two entires--a pair of minis and one miini stallion. I was really concerned for the little single vse but he did it just find. This was a course on the side of a GA foothill or Florida mountain!!:lol:

So it all has to do with your conditioning of the pony and awareness of what you are doing with him.

Good luck.

[MoonShai]

Glad to find a place to get lots of great input! I would love to enter the local CDE and, as a recycler, would love to use the kids outgrown pony. She's a lovely animal to spend time with, but clocks in at about 11 hands exactly. I assume in CDE I will have to take a 'gator at that size (can't access the ADS rulebook because I'm too cheap to join for half a year....). I could just give her a shot, look for a really tiny gator and go for it, or I could try to find her a partner and drive her in a pair. Not that I know much about driving pairs, but if I'm going to learn all these things, I'd better get on it. What do you think?

[pricestory]

At 11 hands, you would have to have a gator. There certainly have been others that have done it but it would definately take a light weight cart and a tiny gator. The terrian would have a lot to do with it also. Deep sand and hills may make it very difficult.
Does your area offer ADT or HDT? Those would be easier due to the either lack of marathon in the ADT or one section marathon in the HDT. Our HDT had minis but we didn't have them do the entire course.

[miraclewelsh]

I just wanted to give an update on my 11.3 hh welsh pony mare. I've had her since the middle of November last year and this weekend we took our 50th drive together.

She is AWSOME!!! oh my god, never thought it would be so much fun. She is small ennough that my son who is 7 yrs old and my "groom" on our regular outings can handle her.



Hi! I just saw your update-- very happy to hear that things have worked out so well with your pony. It sounds like you're having a lot of fun with her. Be sure to post pictures of her sometime!

[Tamara in TN]

I've heard that welsh are just really tough little horse but I don't want to be unfair to the little mare..

they are...my only suggestion is that you take into account her conformation...the better uilt at any size the better a job she'll do and the longer she'll last

best