why do green riders buy green horses

[elmerandharriet]

so my bo is the humane officer in my county and this idiot who adopted a previous horse thru the humane society has no horse experiance bought an green broke 4 yr old for his daughter who has never ridden before and throws her on her and neither the pony or the girl know what to do so what does he do? he adopts another horse who rears under saddle... why do people who cant ride or know anything about horses buy horses with issues or green broke?

[xQHDQ]

They are ignorant, not necessarily stupid (although some are).

Hopefully they will learn without anyone getting hurt.

The person who adopted out the horses to this guy should have either not adopted out the horses or done some major education.

[MaggieMagoo]

so that poopsie and pony can "grow up and learn together! It's just like getting a puppy right?"

uhg. I really do feel bad for those people, their first experience with horse ownership and it's generally not good.

[dressagedevon]

Not to mention that green horses are usually much cheaper than trained horses.

[meredithbarlow]

Green + Green = Black and Blue!

The same reason why fat women want little bitty arabs and why dumb middle aged women LOVE goofy looking pinto ponies!

[JoZ]

why dumb middle aged women LOVE goofy looking pinto ponies!

Hey! Unless you mean the kind with "feather" that poop majikal butterflies... I resemble that remark!

[Phaxxton]

Why is the humane society adopting out problem / green horses to people with no experience?

[Aggie4Bar]

Some people think horses are like cars. If a car runs, all you need to do is get in and go. They think if a horse is broke to ride, all you have to do is get on and go.

Think back to all the threads we've had about random non-horse people (co-workers, family, new acquaintances, friend of a friend, etc.) asking to ride. And they just don't get it when you say no. They don't get that green horses and competition horses are not the same dead sided, bomb-proof, slow, forgiving types typically available to tourists and one-time riders at places that specialize in catering to the non-riding crowd. Even if you explain the horse is not suitable for beginners, you can get blank stares. People take for granted that horses have personalities and require training.

A different scenario are people with vague horse knowledge that think they know how to bring up a baby or greenie. Some horse-rider pairs in this situation survive to become a great team. Most don't. I don't believe it's always ego though. There are certain types of teachers out there actively selling to newbies the idea that they don't need experience to jump in with a green horse.

[Phaxxton]

Green + Green = Black and Blue!

The same reason why fat women want little bitty arabs and why dumb middle aged women LOVE goofy looking pinto ponies!

So what exactly is the reason then? :confused:

My Arab would like to know. :winkgrin:

[elmerandharriet]

it just frustrates me as they always come outand spend forever tacking up their horse because the horse doesnt understand then the girl is afraid to get on because the pony takes off... i mean wouldnt it be better to buy an old horse with time under its belt (which the humane society has several nice old horses with training) than the young one thats they think its cute bc it doesnt know anything

[meredithbarlow]

Why is the humane society adopting out problem / green horses to people with no experience?

Yeah seriously! They should be the ones to say- hey this is not a match, why don't you come out and volunteer with us and learn how to handle horses better.

[meredithbarlow]

it just frustrates me as they always come outand spend forever tacking up their horse because the horse doesnt understand then the girl is afraid to get on because the pony takes off... i mean wouldnt it be better to buy an old horse with time under its belt (which the humane society has several nice old horses with training) than the young one thats they think its cute bc it doesnt know anything

Maybe they don't like the kid?

[meredithbarlow]

So what exactly is the reason then? :confused:

My Arab would like to know. :winkgrin:

I don't know I just know its in the same category. :)

[LockeMeadows]

The same reason why fat women want little bitty arabs and why dumb middle aged women LOVE goofy looking pinto ponies!

Wow, this is truly one of the meanest comments I've ever seen on COTH. :mad: Perhaps you have forgotten who pays your bills, but more than likely, it is the same people you make fun of.

[Phaxxton]

I don't know I just know its in the same category. :)

If you figure it out, let my fat butt know.

But I'll be sure to put "Buy pinto pony" on my outlook calendar so I don't forget to buy one in 10 or 15 years.

[meredithbarlow]

Oh oh, funny story!

LOL, I just remembered it. I had a client one time who asked me well if we buy her [10 year old daughter] a foal and if she works with it every day won't she learn how to handle it.

My answer- if we buy here a baby tiger.......


People just don't get it! Most foals are born outweighing us. And outsmarting us.

[Phaxxton]

it just frustrates me as they always come outand spend forever tacking up their horse because the horse doesnt understand then the girl is afraid to get on because the pony takes off... i mean wouldnt it be better to buy an old horse with time under its belt (which the humane society has several nice old horses with training) than the young one thats they think its cute bc it doesnt know anything

I still want to know why the humane society is adopting out green or problem horses to people with no experience.

[MySparrow]

Wow, this is truly one of the meanest comments I've ever seen on COTH. :mad: Perhaps you have forgotten who pays your bills, but more than likely, it is the same people you make fun of.

Have you had a bad day, Meredith?

[Phaxxton]

Wow, this is truly one of the meanest comments I've ever seen on COTH. :mad: Perhaps you have forgotten who pays your bills, but more than likely, it is the same people you make fun of.

In some people's minds, I probably resemble at least one of those comments...

And the scary thing is that I do plan on buying a pinto at some point in the future (though probably 10+ years away). I'll be a beautiful, fat, middle-aged cliche picking up all my ribbons on my itty bitty pintabian! :winkgrin:

But the comment still made me laugh.

[elmerandharriet]

the only thing our human society checks is

1. a vet to see if you have one and to see if do everything needed to have a horse

2 they check where the horse will be kept

3 they do a follow up in a year, you must keep the horse for 1 yr at least if you want to give up the horse before 1 yr it must go back to the humane society and after a yr it can be sold

[meredithbarlow]

the only thing our human society checks is
1. a vet to see if you have one and to see if do everything needed to have a horse


Shouldn't the knowledge to own the horse be included??? (not that its your fault of course)

[Phaxxton]

the only thing our human society checks is

1. a vet to see if you have one and to see if do everything needed to have a horse

2 they check where the horse will be kept

3 they do a follow up in a year, you must keep the horse for 1 yr at least if you want to give up the horse before 1 yr it must go back to the humane society and after a yr it can be sold

I think that the human society needs to consider changing its policy.

Maybe it should give the big, green, rearing horses to the fat, middle aged women and the itty bitty Arabians and pintos to the green horse owners.

[meredithbarlow]

I think that the human society needs to consider changing its policy.

Maybe it should give the big, green, rearing horses to the fat, middle aged women and the itty bitty Arabians and pintos to the green horse owners.

Yes, someone can take a joke.

I'm sorry I'm not being PC today.

[RockinHorse]

Why do green riders buy green horses? Because they don't know any better and they get them from people who A) don't know any better either or B) don't care they just want to move the animal:(

[meredithbarlow]

Why do green riders buy green horses? Because they don't know any better and they get them from people who A) don't know any better either or B) don't care they just want to move the animal:(

VERY true. I get mad at the people who sold my appy to the people I bought him from. They sold an 18 mos old stud COLT to COMPLETE greenies. Come on like they didn't know that was an accident waiting to happen.

[Phaxxton]

Seriously, though -- Can your BO do anything to change the policies or the adoption process? I know the humane society is probably overrun with homeless animals and seized animals, so it may be difficult... however, it sounds like they could do a few simple things to make the adoption process a little bit safer for the horses and the new owners.

[Guin]

Wow, this is truly one of the meanest comments I've ever seen on COTH. :mad: Perhaps you have forgotten who pays your bills, but more than likely, it is the same people you make fun of.

Oh for god's sakes, get a sense of humor!
I'm a middle-aged woman who just LOVES pinto ponies! :winkgrin:

[Paragon]

Green + Green = Black and Blue!

The same reason why fat women want little bitty arabs and why dumb middle aged women LOVE goofy looking pinto ponies!

My first horse was a little green Arab, and I was a fat green rider. :rolleyes:

Learned a helluva lot, too. Wasn't the best decision I ever made, but I certainly don't regret it.

[lolalola]

It amazes me how many novice horse people will not listen to advice from people who have been around horses all their lives. If I decided to learn to fly or sail or engage in some other dangerous sport, I would take lessons and seek advice from experienced people. Doesn't every horse book or magazine state plainly that a green horse and green rider is a bad idea? Why do these people think they would be the exception? Of course, a little knowledge is a dangerous thing. Just the other day, a man who rents a house on the farm where I keep my horses asked about the possibility of "leasing" one of them. I told him my horses weren't suitable for beginners, and he told me he's an expert rider. That's because he once went on vacation at a dude ranch and also rode on a trip to the Virgin Islands. The sad part is he really believes in his expertise.

[meredithbarlow]

I told him my horses weren't suitable for beginners, and he told me he's an expert rider. That's because he once went on vacation at a dude ranch and also rode on a trip to the Virgin Islands. The sad part is he really believes in his expertise.

I went surfing once at the beach... but I don't have a clue how to surf! If fact I'm not even sure you could call what I did surfing, just because I had a surf board. Just like I doubt you could call what he did riding.

[Seven]

If you figure it out, let my fat butt know.

But I'll be sure to put "Buy pinto pony" on my outlook calendar so I don't forget to buy one in 10 or 15 years.

:lol::lol::lol:

I guess I'd better be gettin' me an Arab too, then. :winkgrin:

[Amchara]

I wonder if this has any connection to the multitudes of greengreen, older horses (10+) I see?

[Sithly]

I love it when people try to pass off their a$$hole moments as "not being PC." Hahah, no. Jerk is jerk, PC or not.

[Beasmom]

Aw, lighten up on Meredith! I used to half-board a horse at an endurance barn here and I've never seen so many itty bitty Arabs toting around people who must have weighed a third what the itty-bitty Arabs weighed. Sorry, that's what happens when someone can't be honest about themselves and/or the horse they're riding.

Can't say I've witnessed the pinto pony phenomenon, tho...

[elmerandharriet]

i kno we went and picked up 2 humane horses the other day described as amish broke(?) i would classify those as not even broke i wonder if she will adopt them out as broke horses... i know i wouldnt get on the horses but as long as she finds them homes what does she care! it seems that if she raised the adoption fees stupid people wouldnt come around? she adopts them out from 50-100 bucks now they dont last long with those prices but it always seems like they end up with the wrong people. i mean they feed them and water them and they are fat but nothing more is ever done with them

[4Martini]

It amazes me how many novice horse people will not listen to advice from people who have been around horses all their lives. If I decided to learn to fly or sail or engage in some other dangerous sport, I would take lessons and seek advice from experienced people.

One of the biggest issues with being a greenie in the horse world is that EVERYONE is an EXPERT and they will all give you conflicting answers. (Even on the Green + Green argument if they happen to have a 2 year old with the potential to go to the olympics with your 8 year old. And not only should you buy it, but then you should definitely put it in full training with same scammer.)

Flying has the FAA so flight instructors are qualified and have a system to follow. As do most sports as dangerous as riding. You would think at least the insurance companies would care...

I had a lady who started talking down to me after knowing me for all of 15 minutes about how she was a professional and had been doing this all of her life - so I was an idiot not to listen to her- even though what she was saying was in direct opposition to what my vet said :mad:

So - I'm not a novice - but I'm seen many of them be burned by people who knew enough about horses to pull the fleece over the newbee's eyes.

I actually get really pissed off when I think about the current state of who can call them selves a trainer and what a bad introduction to a really good sport people can get because of it.

Okay - rant over.

[meredithbarlow]

I love it when people try to pass off their a$$hole moments as "not being PC." Hahah, no. Jerk is jerk, PC or not.

I forgot its totally okay for "large people" to make fun of me for being skinny but I cannot even crack a joke with out being attacked. Though it seems the majority of cothers completely heard what I was saying.

[Beverley]

Oh, there are all sorts of variations on this. Decades ago I took a trip to Southern Pines with two school chums, one of whom was switching from saddle seat to hunters, and wanted to buy a horse- and the other and I were asked to go as advisors. We looked at a lot of nice horses and it was quickly narrowed down to two by our friend the buyer. One, a 'plain jane' chestnut- not flashy but no conformation faults, either. And we watched the sucker trot a 5 foot vertical in pushbutton mode. The other, a younger green thing with a pretty head. Despite our strenuous advice, buyer went with the pretty head (but without the accompanying kind eye).

She took her new horse home over the summer, where she clearly didn't get along and more than that, the barn help was scared of him as well and so would only enter the stall by cornering the horse with a pitchfork. He got shipped back to school to be sold, while owner went to study abroad. Yours truly, always the expendable rider, got to get the horse reasonably reschooled to sell. It was all a darn shame, but the horse did end up back in professional hands where he belonged. Mind you, this buyer 'did' have horse experience, just not 'hunter' experience. But she got caught up in 'good looks' instead of 'fun to ride.'

More recently a friend, long time owner, test drove my warmblood with an eye toward borrowing him for the Pony Express re-ride. I suggested she try him in the arena before we headed out on the trails for a gallop. She was offended by the suggestion so off we went. Guess what. She buried her heels in his ribs at our usual galloping stretch, and he obliged. She claimed a 'runaway' (well, gee, he was doing what was asked of him) and it ended badly, she hit pavement, tried to turn him there, and they went down. No major damage fortunately, but lesson learned by me- do not believe peoples' descriptions of their experience and skills, even when you have been riding with them many times!

Finally, there is a young man with a nice 4 yo qh mare at our barn...he's green, she's green but kind, but he thinks he can train her by watching all those trainers on tv. Oh, and months might go by between visits, he rode her one day this week on a long trail ride after not even having looked at her for over two months. That one could end badly. Though with luck, he'll lose interest altogether and she'll be only a 5, 6 or 7 yo greenie.

[BuddyRoo]

I just don't understand why the HS would be adopting green as grass horses out to people that are admittedly first-time horse owners without a trainer in the mix or something.

It seems like they'd be opening themselves up to liability or at minimum, horses they have to go in and take back.

As for why people with minimal experience think they're experts...well, because they don't know how much they don't know. With horses, the more you know, the more you know you've got to learn.

If all you know is a rent-a-horse trail ride then you *think* it's pretty easy stuff. Kick pull ponies are vastly different than green as grass critters...but I swear, a lot of non-horsie people think that any/all horses arrive into this world safe to ride for all abilities.

My neighbors kept bugging me about taking their kids out trail riding on my two mares. I've only got ONE that would be suitable for a novice/beginner rider. The other would likely kill someone. But they don't understand the difference between the rent-a-horse they rode one day a band camp and my two. They were greatly offended when I offered them names of some local rent-a horse places. Because THEY KNOW HOW TO RIDE. right. Not on my liability ins. :D

[eventmom]

Ok guys, I am not in any way saying this is the way to go, but I want to give you the other side. We (our family) was green as grass. Our first pony, we purchased and brought to our property, was a complete basket case. Very kind, but afraid of his own shadow. Three of my kids learned to ride on him and he turned into the best pony ever. We just sold him recently to a very nice family as my girls had grown out of him.
So, it can work sometimes. Truth is, we had a lot of help, and a lot of natural common sense.
Not all greenies, are stupid.

[SweetLatte]

I thought Merideth's comment was pretty darn funny :lol:

Coming from someone who "learned with" and sometimes against her green Arabian, the problem at hand was so-called "experts" who encouraged the set-up. The people I bought my mare from told my parents that I could learn "with" the 3 year old, unbroke, Arabian filly. Fortunatelly, Latte's now the best horse I could ask for and I've learned much more than I ever would have learned otherwise.

...and, you guessed it! She's too small for me :sadsmile:

[meredithbarlow]

Truth is, we had a lot of help, and a lot of natural common sense.
Not all greenies, are stupid.

You guys had enough sense to get help. Greenies who are putting their CHILDREN on top of an unbroke horse are stupid. You it sounds, were not.

[trailhorse1]

Green + Green = Black and Blue!

The same reason why fat women want little bitty arabs and why dumb middle aged women LOVE goofy looking pinto ponies!

Oh MY! I am laughing soooooo hard right now I can hardly stand it. Waaayyyy toooo funny! Your cruel! Very true statements, cruel but true.

Name me one person on this board that has not bought a horse that was not green for their first horse and I will show you a liar.

[Jaegermonster]

Green riders buy green horses for a few reasons:
1) they are ignorant. Most people don't realize that they don't have a clue about horses. They think because they sat on a horse for an hour at camp when they were 10 that they "know how to ride". Sitting on a horse to get from point a to point b and riding it are not the same thing.
Honestly, I have found that as my riding education has progressed over the last 30 years or so, that I am always learning something new. I have gained an appreciation for dressage I didn't have as a junior, along with more of a desire to put the time into "getting it right" instead of just "good enough". The more I have learned the more of a thirst I have to learn more. Green riders aren't there yet.
2) they can't afford an appropriate horse and/or
3) don't want to take the time to look because they are "in love"

[nwrider]

The same reason why fat women want little bitty arabs!

Too true! I always feel a little bad when I see the backs of those said arabians and they are about three inches lower than the wither.

My opinion on why green people buy green horses is the reason why I did... They are way cheaper than a well broke horse with the same nice looks and pedigree. The key that was mentioned earlier is if you have a brain you will get help.

[Beverley]

Name me one person on this board that has not bought a horse that was not green for their first horse and I will show you a liar.

Ding dong, you are wrong!:cool:

My first horse was an aged mare, purchased AFTER leasing a reliable hireling string mare for a summer!

My SECOND horse was a barely started but sane 2 yo mare, which I succesfully trained with the oversight of the on-site trainer.

Even my non-horsey Dad had enough sense to consult with horse folk. Of course the pitfall there is if you randomly select dishonest horse folk with whom to consult (and how are you going to know if you know nothing of horses or the horse world?), their interests will come ahead of yours and you could end up with the wrong horse.

[chaltagor]

Name me one person on this board that has not bought a horse that was not green for their first horse and I will show you a liar.

What? Fail. Was that supposed to be a joke too? Is this the thread for jokes that don't make any sense? :confused:

[goeslikestink]

so my bo is the humane officer in my county and this idiot who adopted a previous horse thru the humane society has no horse experiance bought an green broke 4 yr old for his daughter who has never ridden before and throws her on her and neither the pony or the girl know what to do so what does he do? he adopts another horse who rears under saddle... why do people who cant ride or know anything about horses buy horses with issues or green broke?


this worries me a lot------- if your b/o which obviously has eqiune expreince to be a humane officer why on would he/she allow her office to put a novice with a novice or know about a novice with a novice not once but twice as you and b/o obviously have seen and know this person

1st and 2nd horse are not suitable
2nd it wont be a life long home for either becuase they dont match

and 3rdly being that shes an expreinces horse person should have advise the guy and the office and not gone to an adoption with a novice without being accessed if she cant do that then a qualified trianer should have of which if she an animal control officer should put them in contact with one
and access there riding ability and then if they still interested advised to go to a proper riding school whereby they can learn to ride but also take care of the horse

your b/o --- should have informed the office it not a good match and the horses might be on the agenda as at _____ RISK __ plus a liablity as after all the office let them take horses that are not suitable --- the guy hasnt got the ecpreince or knowledge
its just doesnt lay right with me you call the guy an idiot-- but who really is one

[elmerandharriet]

i think hes an idiot for several reasons

1 if his daughter cant ride the one horse why would you buy another problematic horse
2 if you dont know anything about horses wouldnt you seek trainers help... he doesnt think he needs to
3 hes refuses help and thinks he knows all

[meredithbarlow]

Name me one person on this board that has not bought a horse that was not green for their first horse and I will show you a liar.

My first horse was a semi feral 8 year old mare and a 22 month old unbroke appy.

BUT I was educated enough to handle them both and asked for help when needed. I was by no means green (even though I was 16 at the time) but I certainly didn't have the knowledge I do 4 years later, and I'm sure I don't have the knowledge I will in another 4 years and so on.

[meredithbarlow]

...and, you guessed it! She's too small for me :sadsmile:

But you admit it, so my problem doesn't lie with you!

Lol, I own a 13.2 hh dartmoor pony and my favorite mount is a 14.3 hh appy! Yes, by american standards I'm too tall (at 5'5") for both of them, but I don't hurt their backs or anything (I'm sure you are fine on your arab)

[Sithly]

I forgot its totally okay for "large people" to make fun of me for being skinny but I cannot even crack a joke with out being attacked. Though it seems the majority of cothers completely heard what I was saying.



I actually did take your joke as a joke (albeit in poor taste), and didn't pay much attention to it until the PC comment. That annoyed me. You didn't say "Sorry, I was just joking," you said, "I'm sorry I'm not being PC today." It's a pet peeve of mine when people say something offensive and then get all huffy and play the PC card when other people get offended. Duh. What did you think would happen?

[SweetLatte]

But you admit it, so my problem doesn't lie with you!

Lol, I own a 13.2 hh dartmoor pony and my favorite mount is a 14.3 hh appy! Yes, by american standards I'm too tall (at 5'5") for both of them, but I don't hurt their backs or anything (I'm sure you are fine on your arab)

Well, you see-when I purchased her at the age of 11 I was significantly smaller and shorter than I am today. :yes: When I was 5'3" and she was 15 hands, we suited each other quite well. Today, at 5'10" and 15.1 hands, it's a different story :lol: Even if I can touch my toes underneath her belly, she's my trusty, forever steed :D

[quicksilverponies]

Well, here is my explanation. Sometimes a green rider can't afford a trained horse. I have owned and ridden horses/ponies for over 40 yrs. When I was young, my parents couldnt afford well trained horses for my sisters and I. So they bought green, read lots of books, got as much advice as possible and learned as we went. And many championships and numerous years later, myself and my 3 sisters are still developing champions and sharing our love of horses and ponies with others. Not all greenies are the same - it is really not funny or fair to lump them all in the idiot category. Sure, it is better to buy a well trained horse for a novice, but sometimes it is not possible. And sometimes the alternative works out ok.

[Sithly]

I'm sure it does work out sometimes, but I have become jaded, and every time I hear about another green horse, green rider combo, I expect the worst. I'd guess that about 90% of the cases I've seen have ended badly for horse and/or rider, so I'm not inclined to be optimistic.

[meredithbarlow]

Well, here is my explanation. Sometimes a green rider can't afford a trained horse. I have owned and ridden horses/ponies for over 40 yrs. When I was young, my parents couldnt afford well trained horses for my sisters and I. So they bought green, read lots of books, got as much advice as possible and learned as we went. And many championships and numerous years later, myself and my 3 sisters are still developing champions and sharing our love of horses and ponies with others. Not all greenies are the same - it is really not funny or fair to lump them all in the idiot category. Sure, it is better to buy a well trained horse for a novice, but sometimes it is not possible. And sometimes the alternative works out ok.

But again the op is talking about an adult who is literally risking their childs life. Come on you don't stick a kid on the back of a horse they are afraid of. Yeah, sure its one thing for a trainer to push a kid into getting onto ol Rusty the 30 year old lesson pony. But "oh come on get on this green horse little one" the kid is 4 years old. Its one thing for dad to risk his own life, but risking his kids is neglect!

[equinelaw]

My first horse cost $450 including tack and shipping. I assume she was an OTTB. My parents would drop me off at the backyard barn alone in the am and pick me up after dark. I would ride around in the the fileds and on the the highways (what is now route 50 at white oak) and gallop and jump anything in my way. I took the mare to summer camp and sold her to my instructior.

About 5 years ago, after many many years inbetween, I aksed my parents WHAT THE HELL WERE YOU THINKING?????!!!!! They just didn't know and figured even though I was 14 I knew what I was doing becuase I had read a lot of books. I donpt think it ever even occured to them that riding or horses were dangerous, even though I had almost lost my leg at 7 when a hack stable horse had slammed me into the frozen ground.

Even after being one of those kids with those parents, I still have no idea what we were thinking. Of course, back then I wouldn;t have bought a rearing horse--that was something you had to teach them later!:)

[EqTrainer]

Because, don't you know.. they know more than we do! They watched those John Leon.. errrr.. Lion.. errr.. LYONS! videos. Yup, they shore did.

Seriously now? I don't think they love their kids. I really don't. Here I am, all into horses, and LMEqT has to wear her GPA to be *walked* on one of ours. I LOVE HER! Damn if she's going to get hurt if I can help it..

Oh, and do you know what a redneck says right before he dies? "WATCH THIS, BUBBA!"

[Seven]

Name me one person on this board that has not bought a horse that was not green for their first horse and I will show you a liar.

Wrong again - my first three horses were 'been there done that' horses. By the time I bought my first green horse I'd been riding my own horses for more than a decade.

That said, some green horses are suitable for green riders (with proper supervision). But more often, the better choice for new rider is an older horse who's had years of training to learn from, not with.

[Tory Relic]

Name me one person on this board that has not bought a horse that was not green for their first horse and I will show you a liar.

Wow. Pretty much a broad ASSumption. Unless, of course, you are joking (this :lol: helps get that across ;)).

I learned on dead broke ponies, courtesy of a horseman father. Although, I guess the first horse I bought for myself was pretty green, but *I* wasn't green by anyone's standards by then.

I agree with EventMom, however, sometimes it can work as long as the greenies are a good match and there is help available. I've known green horses easier to deal with than some so-called finished horses, but the lack of mutual experience does need some help. People who are smart enough to get that usually do fine. It's the ones who either think they already know it all or are too ignorant to know they are ignorant that can be the disasters waiting to happen.

[Lou-Lou]

Oh oh, funny story!

LOL, I just remembered it. I had a client one time who asked me well if we buy her [10 year old daughter] a foal and if she works with it every day won't she learn how to handle it.

My answer- if we buy here a baby tiger.......


People just don't get it! Most foals are born outweighing us. And outsmarting us.

Foals are the devil. :winkgrin:

[MistyBlue]

My first horse wasn't green...she was a raving witch...but not a green one. :winkgrin: She knew the ropes...she just hated the ropes, which was why I got her cheap as heck. (and was the only buyer looking at her, LOL) I wasn't rank green...and she was rank. A good match? It wasn't a bad one...but it wasn't an ideal one either.
Why do green riders buy green horses? Green horses are inexpensive horses. And in most sports or hobbies a newbie tends to want to start out with inexpensive. What's tough is that equine sports are opposite other sports. Other sports...the used/been there-done that stuff is cheaper. With horses...the shiny new, hardly used stuff is cheap and the well used stuff is more expensive.
Another reason green riders buy green horses....not sure about everyone else's areas but I know in mine that just about every horse sales magazine and sales barn is selling probably 80% green horses. Different shades of green...but all green. Just about every ad has the horse as a "prospect." Even at ages that should no longer be green or prospecting...10 year old prospects, etc.
I understand the green buying green...it's extremely common and I can see the mentality of it. Especially when non-horsie parents are writing the sales check...doesn't always mean the parents don't care for the kids as much as the parents just don't understand that a first horse for a new rider should be a little more expensive than a greenie. They can stay inexpensive by buying an older one that's been there/done that but then a non-horsie parents will usually balk at writing a check for what they consider an ancient animal that has maintainance costs attached to it vs a younger more sound horse.
Sometimes green on green works...depends on the green rider and green horse...and also depends a lot on that horse and rider having the safety net of an experienced person around to help both of them. Some greenies are more "exciting" than others and do better with experienced riders to get those miles on them...but some greenies are easier than others and can do decently with a green rider with some help.

[eventmom]

Wow. Pretty much a broad ASSumption. Unless, of course, you are joking (this :lol: helps get that across ;)).

I learned on dead broke ponies, courtesy of a horseman father. Although, I guess the first horse I bought for myself was pretty green, but *I* wasn't green by anyone's standards by then.

I agree with EventMom, however, sometimes it can work as long as the greenies are a good match and there is help available. I've known green horses easier to deal with than some so-called finished horses, but the lack of mutual experience does need some help. People who are smart enough to get that usually do fine. It's the ones who either think they already know it all or are too ignorant to know they are ignorant that can be the disasters waiting to happen.
So, the problem is not green on green, the problem is stupid on green. And THAT is something we have all seen in all levels of experience.
I know enough to know what I don't know, not just in horses but in life. A little knowledge can be very dangerous, especially in the hands of stupid people.
Lets not make blanket statements about green on green. I just got a note this am from the new owners of our first pony. They took him to his first show and got first place! We are just what he needed at the time. He absolutly flourished under our care. I think we were too ignorant to know that he was "a waste of time"!
The trick is excellent help. We all can use it from time to time. Don't care how experienced you are. Every beast is different and you need to be a different kind of "trainer" with every beast. The biggest fool is the one who doesn't know when they need the help.

[Phaxxton]

:lol::lol::lol:

I guess I'd better be gettin' me an Arab too, then. :winkgrin:

When I graduate to my pinto pony days, you can borrow Phaxxton! :winkgrin::lol::lol: Unfortunately, I don't think you'll be fat enough for him. ;)

[JumpItHighPie]

why do people who cant ride or know anything about horses buy horses with issues or green broke?

It's a lack of any professional guidance.

[Beasmom]

Name me one person on this board that has not bought a horse that was not green for their first horse and I will show you a liar.

Here's another example for ya, Trailhorse1.

When I was 11, my folks and I went shopping for my very first horse. Naturally, I wanted an Arabian. A black Arabian. Preferably a stallion. Fortunately, I did not control the purse strings, and Mom & Dad had the good sense to seek advice. And fortunately again, they got that advice from honest people.

We started this shopping trip at an Arabian farm near Fort Worth. I believe these people had been recommended to us by Mona Betts, who had been showing at our Stock show. They told us they would not sell us an Arabian of any sort. Yet. Their advice was to find a nice older horse, between the ages of 7 and 14, for instance, let me ride that around for a year or so, then they might sell us an Arabian.

We found the perfect beginner horse at the local horse trader's place, though I think he was lying about her age. She cost $250, and that included a saddle, bridle and Navajo blanket. Never mind, "Molly" carried me through all the travails of beginnerhood.

There is nothing wrong with purchasing an OLDER horse, who may be cheaper simply because it IS older. I'm not buying the "green is cheaper" line. Not at all. I think most people buy with their egos leading, and they don't want to be honest with themselves about their riding skills. The older horses teach the younger riders. Even if you're 50, and you've never ridden before, you are a "young" rider.

I pass on the sage advice that those first Arabian breeders gave us. Best advice ever!

OTOH, we have a local Arabian breeder here who ENCOURAGES greenhorns to participate in her annual "foal walks". These newbies fall in love with the cute babies, get talked into buying one, with promises of "help" to break & train them and assurances that they can learn to ride on the mare. Well, the mare has been promised the same way to the people who bought last year's baby, and the one before that. See the problem?

As a result, these people end up with poorly trained, or untrained, spoiled horses that they are afraid of. There are exceptions, but not many. And darn few of them learn to ride safely or well unless they find a riding teacher/trainer to help. Waiting on the breeder to help is like waiting for Godot.

I've seen disreputable "rescues" use the same ploy. That's why I'm leery of rescues. Many are nothing better than used horse lots. Apologies in advance to those who are doing their level best to do right by their horses and adoptors. The bad apples are ruining it for the rest.

[arabhorse2]

The same reason why fat women want little bitty arabs and why dumb middle aged women LOVE goofy looking pinto ponies!

How about a semi-fat, not too dumb, middle aged woman who wants a half-Arabian pinto pony? :lol: :lol: :lol:

Black and white pinto, at that! ;)

[Phaxxton]

How about a semi-fat, not too dumb, middle aged woman who wants a half-Arabian pinto pony? :lol: :lol: :lol:

Black and white pinto, at that! ;)

I aspire to be you someday.

[arabhorse2]

I aspire to be you someday.

:D :D :D :D

[Seven]

So, the problem is not green on green, the problem is stupid on green.

:lol::lol: Classic! And too true! This almost deserves to be a signature!

When I graduate to my pinto pony days, you can borrow Phaxxton! :winkgrin::lol::lol: Unfortunately, I don't think you'll be fat enough for him. ;)

Oh, I think I'm plenty fat enough, but as I'm older than you I may just need to save time and go the pintarabian route! :winkgrin:

[elmerandharriet]

but you would think that if your going to spend 50-100 dollars on a horse you could send it to the trainers for a few months and get it going okay i mean board is 350 and with training at the barn is 450... why wouldnt u just invest in the one? instead of getting another horse

[Phaxxton]

Oh, I think I'm plenty fat enough, but as I'm older than you I may just need to save time and go the pintarabian route! :winkgrin:

I may just save money and dye Phaxxton when I get older.

Do you think that would count, even though he's technically 14.3 and would be partially bleached?

[SPLAT]

And I bought it based on the advice of my trainer and the seller who was an advanced rider in my barn.

Green riders are not all stupid sometimes they put their trust in the wrong people and not all trainers give good advice.

Not all green riders understand the importance of spending thousands of $ extra for a trained horse - They never will esp. if like me, they are struggling to fund a less expensive horse.

[goeslikestink]

And I bought it based on the advice of my trainer and the seller who was an advanced rider in my barn.

Green riders are not all stupid sometimes they put their trust in the wrong people and not all trainers give good advice.

Not all green riders understand the importance of spending thousands of $ extra for a trained horse - They never will esp. if like me, they are struggling to fund a less expensive horse.

maybe so - but then if it has issues your cheap in expensive horse can cost your dearly and not always in his health department but also your own as in your life

[FancyFree]

Ding dong, you are wrong!:cool:

My first horse was an aged mare, purchased AFTER leasing a reliable hireling string mare for a summer!

My SECOND horse was a barely started but sane 2 yo mare, which I succesfully trained with the oversight of the on-site trainer.

Even my non-horsey Dad had enough sense to consult with horse folk. Of course the pitfall there is if you randomly select dishonest horse folk with whom to consult (and how are you going to know if you know nothing of horses or the horse world?), their interests will come ahead of yours and you could end up with the wrong horse.

My first two horses were not green either. My father was footing the bills then. He had a trainer find safe, well trained horses. When I was paying my own way, then I bought my greenies. The only reason was poverty. But fortunately I wasn't still green by that time. Not that both of them didn't teach me at the School of Hard Knocks.

As for fat women and little Arabs, don't they know that riding a big ole warmblood makes your butt look smaller in comparison? That's what I tell myself anyway. ;)

[Seven]

I may just save money and dye Phaxxton when I get older.

Do you think that would count, even though he's technically 14.3 and would be partially bleached?

I think it's brilliant! :cool: Saving time and money by not having to wait to get to the "middle-aged pinto" stage!

[Amwrider]

My first horse was certainly not a green one, he was a 20 something TB/Perchie cross. I leased him for a few years and bought him for $750 when I got out of college.

My next horse was a 3 year old ASB greenie, but by then I had 15 years of riding lessons. She taught me a lot and I did get help when needed.

I think a lot of the green + green is due to "Black Stallionitis" because heck, isn't that always the way it is in the movies and in the books?

[MSP]

I think it mostly comes down to money and not wanting to spend it! Add in a pinch of ignorance and maybe some false confidence.

My parents started me at age 4 with a stallion!

At age 7 with an 11 hd gelding, not broke to ride!

At age 10 my first horse! A 4 year old green broke Arab/Appy!

YeeHaa! I learned how to ride the old fashion way! Horse care was no problem because I was in 4H and had barn and horse inspections as well as group meetings and formal equine education. The lack of money means riding with out lessons, saddles, and helmets. It meant relying on books (today it would be TV or DVD) to learn the finer points of riding and become self taught.

The false confidence I see in others! I have had people ask to come and ride my filly who had been under saddle for two months now. These people will described themselves as “knowing how to ride”. The definition of “Knowing how to ride” is “I have been on a horse a couple of times and I am not afraid to get bucked off or fall off” which is how this person dismounts. :eek:

[Amwrider]

Also, I saw Meridith's coment as a joke, just a very mean one.

Here you go Meredith, I need to lose about 70 pounds and am 40 years old. Never had an Arab, don't want an Arab, I will never own a paint. Give me a nice brown Morgan or saddlebred and I am in heaven.

By the way, I am not fat, I just attract more gravity than you do.;)

[Beasmom]

I think a lot of the green + green is due to "Black Stallionitis" because heck, isn't that always the way it is in the movies and in the books?


Absolutely! I had that disease as a child. Fortunately the cure for it was a patient old chestnut farm chunk mare and parents who had a clue.

[Sandy M]

My first horse was TECHNICALLY green, but she was five, a little underweight, QH calm despite a 7/8 TB pedigree, and had already been started over low fences. Ditto for 2nd horse, though moving her from a hot a dry climate to the fog and excitement of GGP made for some exciting moments. On the other hand, I had taken lessons on varying types of school horses - from wacko to good enough to take to "A" rated shows, since I was 10 (I was 24 when I bought my first horse). So... not really green on green.

Third horse was an eventing schoolmaster; fourth horse was 9 years old, Novice eventer, ready to move up. Fifth horse WAS a greenie - but I wasn't, and he, too has a marvelous temperament (2nd gen. Appy cross - the one in my profile pic).

Now I am definitely NOT green - it's been 38 years in the saddle + - and I am STRUGGLING with a total greenie and learning that a 90 days under saddle 3 year old is NOT the same as a "green" 4 or 5 year old. And yes, I bought baby because the way horse prices are going, that was all I could afford. I've picked up a few bruises, but I am coping. And that's as an experienced rider. I cannot imagine the idiocy of sticking a child on a greenie, but yes, people do it because they just don't know any better - or they are cheap - or it came from a "friend" - or.... whatever. It is truly amazing, since as someone said, they wouldn't think of buy a car/stereo system/boat or whatever without thoroughly researching the subject first or getting recommendations from a pro, but a horse, hey! what the heck, throw on the saddle and go, right?

[riverbell93]

Why do people with no horse experience plunge right in, often with green horses, instead of taking lessons or otherwise gathering experience? I think part of the reason is how easy it is to buy a horse compared to taking lessons. I mean, if you take lessons you A) lay yourself open to criticism and judgement, B) commit to a course of classes at a certain time and place on a regular basis, C) spend a lot of money on an ephemeral goal. It seems like it would be easier and more fun to have your own horse and just mess around with them when you want to. And by the time you realize that this is a fantasy and not a realistic way to keep a horse, it's too late.

Re: the fat women and little horsies thing. I am not a fan of fat jokes but I admit my reaction to the first comment was "Yeah, like fat people always own sighthounds and short men always seem to own huge (and hugely intact)male dogs."

[arabhorse2]

Re: the fat women and little horsies thing. I am not a fan of fat jokes but I admit my reaction to the first comment was "Yeah, like fat people always own sighthounds and short men always seem to own huge (and hugely intact)male dogs."

Dang, one more strike and I'm out!!! :lol:

I have a Great Dane, and although I'm not morbidly obese, I'm not the svelte size 6 I was as a youngun'! ;)

Oh, and Conny was green and so was I when I got him. Runs for cover......

[graywolf]

Well technically, I did have a horse when I was a kid but that was over 35 years so I considered myself a horse virgin when I got into horses again. I took lessons for about 6 months then took the plunge with a 2 year old QH with about 90 days on her. I thought I knew enough (of course I was wrong about that) I did make one good decision which was to buy a horse that my trainer liked. I had fantasies of rescuing a horse, particulary a stallion (The Black stallion books plus many others) and almost did. I even dragged my poor trainer out to see this neglected stallion I found, that had been stuck in a box stall for at least 5 years or more. The poop had gotten so high that the horse couldn't even lift his head because it hit the roof. I did get the humane society out to that poor horse and the owner faced charges for abuse but I don't know what happened to the horse. Anyway my trainer didn't like that stallion for me but liked this mare even though she was young.

Of course I put my 2 year old in full training for a long time then started taking lessons on her. We went in and out of training although never really getting her past green. It wasn't always easy but we still had fun. We had lots of experiences and some difficult times. That was 9 years ago and I still have this wonderful horse and plan on keeping her for the rest or her life. A couple of years ago I put her in training with a dressage instructor and also took lessons. It was there I realized I really never did know how to really ride but I am learning now. It has been a joyful, very challenging, lots of learning journey, but isn't that just life.

[tidy rabbit]

why dumb middle aged women LOVE goofy looking pinto ponies!


Oh. My. God. I believe I might fall into that catagory.

[TheCoppertop]

Probably an unpopular opinion but green&green doesn't bug me that much, long as little kids aren't involved, and as long as the greenie is just uneducated but sweet, not crazy or dangerous. Thats how a lot of people learn to ride.. it may be the hard way but unplanned landings are always lessons. If they stick with it through a couple bruises they'll learn fast and probably never get it out of their blood.

My first horse was an 18 year old state champ 4-H show horse, I had lessons, a mentor, the whole 9 yards. When I got my first green gelding Reno 2 years later I might as well have never been on a horse in my life. I learned and developed more with Reno than I ever did passively riding old faithful. And when Reno and I won blue ribbons, we BOTH won them. Best feeling in the world. [Worst feeling was laying flat on my back, on the ground, looking up at his nose after he flipped me off over his head, the first time I rode him. We overcame].

If our green ancestor way back hadn't sat himself on an unbroke horse and started all this, none of us could sit on our high horses and judge wannabe riders. ;)

[texang73]

Some people think horses are like cars. If a car runs, all you need to do is get in and go. They think if a horse is broke to ride, all you have to do is get on and go.

Think back to all the threads we've had about random non-horse people (co-workers, family, new acquaintances, friend of a friend, etc.) asking to ride. And they just don't get it when you say no. They don't get that green horses and competition horses are not the same dead sided, bomb-proof, slow, forgiving types typically available to tourists and one-time riders at places that specialize in catering to the non-riding crowd. Even if you explain the horse is not suitable for beginners, you can get blank stares. People take for granted that horses have personalities and require training.

A different scenario are people with vague horse knowledge that think they know how to bring up a baby or greenie. Some horse-rider pairs in this situation survive to become a great team. Most don't. I don't believe it's always ego though. There are certain types of teachers out there actively selling to newbies the idea that they don't need experience to jump in with a green horse.

Very well said! Much Agreed!

[goeslikestink]

do you remeber loren my livery---- her mum brought her a horse

she came and said to me i brought a horse i brought a horse

the horse was a colt so there begins my storey
she was a londoner like me but no idea beucase some people its a status thing
i have a horse --
i was lucky becuase altho i had non horsey parents due to me being horsey
went to the circus and sneak in the tent with a couple of mates and got cuaght
billy smart jnr took us all home and siad nothing for nothing and he dont do freebies
and will have to work for the show we saw
i stayed with him the whole summer and every summer as he went around the local
commons until 1969 70 ish
met many people and he tuaght me on a little pony called zorro
he was one of the nicest people you could ever meet big on elephants
but had a cowboy rountine with his lovely palomino

i think then i had one of the best trianers around and here the start of my life with horses
and how to understand them stems from him and hs teachings

he had a saying and one that i have never ever forgotten and its means many things as it has more than one meaning

to understand a horse 1st you must get close to that horse

[suken road]

Oh. My. God.
Can we hold up? Green riders buy green horses because they are AFFORDABLE. Period. That is not to say that the greenies can't grow together with the help of a professional trainer, this happens ALL THE TIME. A responsible rider will have an exceptionally steep learning curve in this situation, so relax, and give them some time together. In the end, you might need your trainer to put some miles on the horse, but with the right pair, this can be a perfectly acceptable arrangement.

[Amwrider]

Oh. My. God.
Can we hold up? Green riders buy green horses because they are AFFORDABLE. Period. That is not to say that the greenies can't grow together with the help of a professional trainer, this happens ALL THE TIME. A responsible rider will have an exceptionally steep learning curve in this situation, so relax, and give them some time together. In the end, you might need your trainer to put some miles on the horse, but with the right pair, this can be a perfectly acceptable arrangement.

I have bought, and even been given, plenty of older horses. It is not just the greenies that are affordable.

[Phaxxton]

Dang, one more strike and I'm out!!! :lol:

I have a Great Dane, and although I'm not morbidly obese, I'm not the svelte size 6 I was as a youngun'! ;)

Oh, and Conny was green and so was I when I got him. Runs for cover......


I AM aspiring to be you. I'm in the market for a dane! :eek::lol::lol::lol:

[Phaxxton]

Oh. My. God.
Can we hold up? Green riders buy green horses because they are AFFORDABLE. Period.

I came across tons of people in my short career training full time who bought green horses for tons of money because (1) they were some sort of awesome color and/or (2) they had no idea how little the horse actually knew.

Money can't buy sense or experience unfortunately - only time AND money can. ;)

[Pony Person]

Green + Green = Black and Blue!

The same reason why fat women want little bitty arabs and why dumb middle aged women LOVE goofy looking pinto ponies!
meredith, that's hilarious!:lol: (BTW, for all those that say that's not PC, I think it's worse to go along saying what everyone wants to hear than having an opinion of your own.)

arabhorse2, I love Great Danes! I wanna get a brown one and name it Scooby!:yes:

[Jsalem]

They do it because they don't know any better.

Great riding is incredibly simple- it's just incredibly hard. A green person will watch a great rider sitting absolutely still and using invisible aids and think they aren't doing anything. "The horse is doing all the work!"

Green folks think that horses are a great "do it yourself" project. They don't realize that horses aren't like dogs. You buy a puppy, raise it up and you have a devoted friend for life. So you buy a baby horse for your kid and they "learn together."

A green person inquires about a horse for sale at a reputable barn- beautifully cared for and trained. $15,000! Now what kind of idiot would spend that much on a horse when you can pick up your local newspaper and buy a registered quarter "gilding" for $2500!

It's just ignorance. Most of them learn the hard way.

[kb]

Green + Green = Black and Blue!

The same reason why fat women want little bitty arabs and why dumb middle aged women LOVE goofy looking pinto ponies!

I am a tad pudgy, middle aged woman with a black and white half arab/pinto - is she talking about me? :lol:

I have a Ph.D.....so I don't think the dumb part applies ;)

(and by the way my pinto pony does not think he is goofy looking)

[JoZ]

I blame Flicka.

Our BO raises mustangs. Why I couldn't actually tell you. The foals are barely handled. Heck, the adults are barely handled. Very little hoof care, no dental care. Because mustangs are all-natural, dontcha know.

He suddenly realized that breeding seven mares a year leads to an over-abundance of (wild, unhandled) horses. So he's been trying to sell some this summer. Two teenage girls (luckily supported by their families but unluckily not supported by a trainer) have each gotten a yearling. At least they were gelded. Another young girl got a 5 or 6 year old recent gelding (he was a breeding stallion for several years). He had been sat upon once. The new owners thought he loooooooooved their daughter and had such a booooooooond with her that he would neeeeeeeever do anything to hurt her under saddle. So on she gets. Badabuck, badaboom, two broken wrists, a scared, miserable and betrayed little girl, and a horse returned to my BO, thanks but no thanks.

The girls with the yearlings are faring a bit better since they are not planning to ride any time soon. They are instead being dragged about the property by the little hellions. I don't see this ending well either, it just might take longer.

We don't call it The Funny Farm for nothing.

[equinelaw]

A post hole digger?:)

[meredithbarlow]

I am a tad pudgy, middle aged woman with a black and white half arab/pinto - is she talking about me? :lol:

I have a Ph.D.....so I don't think the dumb part applies ;)

(and by the way my pinto pony does not think he is goofy looking)

If your pinto isn't goofy looking and you aren't dumb- you are definitely not who I was talking about ;)

[meredithbarlow]

Green riders buy green horses because they are AFFORDABLE. Period. .

Probably true in MANY cases, but I can think of a recent one (involved a pinto!) where the woman spent 4500 bucks on a horse that didn't pass the vet, goofy looking pinto pony. But "she loved him!" never mind the fact that she's like 5'7 and he's 14 hh and she cannot ride.

btw! I'm not bashing pintos I actually love them, even the goofy looking one!

[CarrieK]

I love it when people try to pass off their a$$hole moments as "not being PC." Hahah, no. Jerk is jerk, PC or not.

I actually did take your joke as a joke (albeit in poor taste), and didn't pay much attention to it until the PC comment. That annoyed me. You didn't say "Sorry, I was just joking," you said, "I'm sorry I'm not being PC today." It's a pet peeve of mine when people say something offensive and then get all huffy and play the PC card when other people get offended. Duh.

Bravo.

I also like--not--when people make some sort of stupid comment, play it off as a joke, then chastise others who don't have the same sense of "humor."

Oh. My. God.
Can we hold up? Green riders buy green horses because they are AFFORDABLE. Period.
Well, aren't you confused! This isn't a thread asking for a reasonable, logical answer, like the one you gave. This is a thread for those who like to wring their hands and b!tch and moan about the stupidity of others, because some folks here on COTH feel they're like Athena and were born fully-formed.

:: off to bed so tomorrow I can haul my middle-aged lard @$$ on my pinto saddlebred ::

[ComingAttraction]

Because they can. Why do some people reproduce? Because they can. No laws against either.....ahhh, but should there be?????

[Spoilsport]

Many green riders don't understand how complicated riding can be, and that it can be dangerous. They think you can get on a horse, kick to get it to move on, steer with the reins, and hang on for dear life :lol:. They have no clue what a well-trained horse with nice gaits feels like. They will happily ride horses that you couldn't pay me to get on. They don't notice if the horse is NQR or on the forehand or counter-bent or has a choppy trot or four beats at the canter. They are perfect victims :(

[HorseCRZY]

I'm sure this has been posted a gazillion times but I was just glancing at the replies... very green riders just don't know any better! They haven't had the "opportunity" to ride many green horses, so they don't know how much easier life will be on them to have a been-there-done-that kind of horse.

I wouldn't say they necessarily SHOULDN'T buy a green horse, although I wouldn't recommend it, they can buy what they want (a family member just bought his first horse, not even broke! sent him off to a trainer (the horse, not the family member :lol:), has him back now, and really enjoys him, green quirks and all. Contrary to popular belief, I don't think you have to be a super experienced rider to ride a green horse, as long as they aren't dangerous or doing things so badly that the rider can't handle them.

I don't think it's anyone's place to judge someone else on their horse buying - as long as the horse or rider aren't being hurt, keep your opinions politely to yourself (in real life of course, not the board :))

[MySparrow]

Last night during her lesson I asked one of my adult students this question. She and her husband decided a couple of years ago that they wanted horses, and went out and collected a bunch of free, unschooled discards. Now that he has been thrown a few times and she has become terrified, she is taking lessons (he won't. Macho man).

So I asked her last night why she and her husband chose this route to get into horses. Her answer was intriguing. She said, "Because we trusted people who said it was easy, you just get on and kick and pull. We didn't know that horses might not like that."

Last night, riding Sparrow, she had an ah-ha moment, when she realized how very light she could be with a horse and get a response. She then added to her earlier answer: "I had no idea that so large an animal could respond to such a very tiny cue. It's terrible that we have probably ruined our horses for this."

Somebody said that this is not a thread for serious answers but for bashing and trashing, and it does seem as though some people have taken it that way. But for me, this is a question that haunts me almost every day, because my work brings me into contact with so many people who have made just that decision. The sad thing is that these people will continue to make these decisions, because there's really nothing that can be done about it.

[tidy rabbit]

I like to use this line to point out to people how sensitive a horse is...

"If they can feel a tiny little fly, they can certainly feel you! Be gentle."

[Pronzini]

Last night, riding Sparrow, she had an ah-ha moment, when she realized how very light she could be with a horse and get a response. She then added to her earlier answer: "I had no idea that so large an animal could respond to such a very tiny cue. It's terrible that we have probably ruined our horses for this."



The nice thing is that most horses are pretty darn resilient and do adapt to the rider on their back. If they get more subtle, the horse will do more subtle. That's what trainers call "tuning them up".

Green on green has been with us forever but now there is a whole new twist via the Internet of people "rescuing" horses when it doesn't sound like they have any horse knowledge whatsoever. I saw recently on another forum someone posted that he wants a free mare off the track even though he's only ridden once, never worked in a barn and knows what little he knows about horses through the lens of a camera. Oh and it doesn't sound like he can afford help (or for that matter a horse).

You just want to pull your hair and say to him "Not. a. puppy!"

[Chezzie]

so that poopsie and pony can "grow up and learn together! It's just like getting a puppy right?"

uhg. I really do feel bad for those people, their first experience with horse ownership and it's generally not good.

I have the results of one of these situations out in my barn right now...except it isn't a pony. She's a big Han/TB cross, who now has some serious trust issues with people, and a very poor work ethic. She is coming around, but it makes me sad to think of the horse she might have been if she had gotten a better start in life.

[jeano]

Well, there are plenty of people willing to SELL green riders green horses. Or spoiled horses. Or lame horses. Or Ace'd horses. I mean, that's horse tradin' like it or not.
I owned one green horse who really didnt know much of anything but she had been imprinted at birth and never ever ruined. She was really sweet natured, kinda lazy, and at the ripe old age of 4 had probabaly not been ridden for a year when I got her. She was a no-spot chestnut registered Appy with some nice horses in her pedigree. She was incredibly pretty and I got her from a gaited horse person who really had no use for her because she wasnt gaited...and she would have been a decent horse for almost the rankest beginner because she was that laid back. The first week I had her I took her on a trail ride with about a zillion gaited horses and she never put a foot wrong, just scared me about to death because it was hot and she didnt know how to drink from a stream, and we rode about 30 miles that day...My recollection of her is she never spooked, was always sound, and was just a very good girl in nearly all respects, and God knows I didnt have much to teach her....

[Sithly]

I think part of the controversy here is that people define green riders differently. Some are talking about rank beginners, and some are talking about people with riding experience but no training experience. Some are talking about idiots.

IMO, there are two main qualities that allow green riders to live through the green horse experience, and they are common sense and athleticism. You can have one or the other in greater quantity, but some sort of balance is needed. A lack of one or both is what gets people hurt.

Common sense includes being fair and consistent with the horse. You don't always have to do it "right" -- if you're consistent, the horse will conform to the most bizarre training practices. My boss tells a great story about a little girl with a backyard horse. The only way she knew how to get her horse to stop was to reach forward and cover his eyes. :lol: Bizarre, but it worked: the horse conformed. After a while, learned to stop every time she leaned forward.

I also believe that you need some degree of athleticism to ride a green horse (and if you don't have much common sense, you'd better make up for it by being a damned good natural athlete). You need balance, coordination, strength, and quick reactions. I've known green-as-grass riders who did okay on green horses just because their natural athleticism kept them from getting into too much trouble.

The problem with green/green is that many, many people don't have enough common sense or athleticism to make it work. But, of course, they all think they do anyway. Everyone thinks they are the special exception that will come out of nowhere with their rescued horse and win the Kentucky Derby. Many of them wind up soured by the experience or scared of the horse, and a good percentage end up injured.