Inept hunters-what would Miss Manners do?

[Huntin'Fool]

Hey All, I *finally* got to go on a hound walk and saw to my dismay that a really inept member has gotten a new horse. It's not that this horse is beyond the person's ability-he is-but that this particular rider had absolutely no control of the kind little quarter horse he used to ride and now he's got a 16.3 TB!!!! Just a couple of examples-his horse stepped on mine's heel last year, making him temporarily lame and making me miss a *fabulous* run and kill. And when I was just preparing to jump a tricky coop onto a paved road here comes ol' Goober flying up beside me at an angle about 2 strides from the coop. I told him to *back off* then felt horrible and like a Bayatch (ok, I may have used stronger language than "back off"). I know we're hunting and that this is not a show ring etc. but this guy was dangerous on a 15.2 hand QH with a strong sense of self preservation. I can't imagine what will happen on a nervious TB who didn't show himself to be 'et up with sense when professionals rode him last year-which was why he was sold. This guy's trainer should be shot-she was sucking up to the seller-probably literally.
Anyhow, can y'all think of a way to tell this guy to stay at least away from me, without seeming too awful and bitchy. Thanks, Huntin'Fool
PS of course he was all over everywhere on the hound walk!

[Jaegermonster]

Don't worry these things have a way of taking care of themselves. Just figure out where he is and make a point of staying away from him.
His horse will plant him neck deep before too long. Problem solved.

[armandh]

politely ask him to ride ahead of you

mine had such a thunderous gallop he made most of the horses in front of him a little nervous
[thats how I got to the front]

I remember one out of control moment. I just steered him away from the hunt until he was listening.
when we return every one was curious but I had no clue. [maybe a bee sting]

[promlightshine]

members like this can and will hurt others. It 's also poor PR for the hunt should people cap in or new members see this is what the hunt allows. Watch carefully, ask a master to keep an eye out. If there are concerns they should address them.

I agree with letting them go in front. Of course, be careful as this is the person whose horse will dart out just before a jump or stop dead making it your problem when they hit the ground.

[J Swan]

Just ask him to ride ahead of you, or ask to pass if he is having trouble.

You may be tempted to dangle the lash or crack your whip - but that is more likely to result in injury to horses and/or riders than help the situation.

You could also ask the Master to keep an eye out - if the Master deems the horse dangerous or completely unsuitable, he/she could excuse the member or ask he not bring that horse out again.

Better a polite and constructive approach than simply yelling, cracking the whip, or doing anything to make the member or his horse more nervous or uncomfortable.

[wateryglen]

Nah! I'd tattle tale them to mommy & daddy!! :winkgrin: The MFH's need to know absolutely! It's highly likely they already know. Keep reporting every incident. Sooner or later; they might deal with it.

But I agree with all the other suggestions but it does depend on YOUR horse. I had one that could take abuse and be "intimidating" perhaps. It's just that you have to choose your battles and the timing is oh-so-crucial. I have several sayings or things I've been know to say to people who were acting badly. Anyone got some priceless suggestions? ;)

Avoidance is always a good policy and know that sooner or later; good things will come to those who deserve it!! :cool: Be patient! I'm a confronter and this can make things nasty at hunt breakfasts!! You gotta be brave to confront!! :lol:

[SteeleRdr]

I compeltely agree with J Swan's recommendation.

I have seen one too many times people in the hunt field that are "over-mounted." And although many times, they are also the ones that will have trouble getting over the paneling, I'd much prefer them being in front of me than riding up my horses butt all day and making me and my horse miserable.

Just be polite, discuss it with "powers that be" in your hunt, and try to avoid that horse and rider.

[Beverley]

I once lost the brakes on my little qh (well, many more times than once, but am describing a particular incident here). He had a bead on the coop and was danged if he was gonna wait for any more of the horses in front of him to get over it (actually hounds were running and there really wasn't much of a wait...). MFH of other hunt (this was a joint meet) who was approaching at a slightly different angle and had most of a length on me graciously pulled up his timber-winning tb (going in a snaffle) to let me barge on through, and we both got a chuckle out of it. BUT...we both knew what the deal was, and I 'could' have circled to avoid any problems had that been necessary (one always has steering even if the brakes are faulty).

That said, I would advocate a slight variation on J. Swan's advice. (And I would not have felt the least bit guilty about your use of 'back off' language for the situation you experienced). I would put a red ribbon in my horse's tail and point that disclaimer out to this person. Never mind that your horse may not really need that ribbon. Then when he loses control and infringes on my horse's space I can be a little sterner in saying 'look out, and back off.' Then, I can politely mention to the Master after a few near misses that I am genuinely concerned for this rider's well being (and mine) and ask the Master to take appropriate action. Option A- put the guy with the hilltoppers for a while. Option B (either after or instead of Option A)- require that this guy's trainer hunt with him at least a few times, staying in front to intercept the bumps and/or otherwise keeping him out of trouble.

[Leather]

Clip this on your horse :lol:

http://www.stencilbum.co.uk/gallery/displayimage.php?album=1&pos=5

[J Swan]

Clip this on your horse :lol:

http://www.stencilbum.co.uk/gallery/displayimage.php?album=1&pos=5

:D

[Mudroom]

Speaking as a MFH, I would want to know. Of course this puts the delicate process on our shoulders to resolve as diplomatically as possible. Oh well, I guess that's why we get the big bucks!

[J Swan]

Speaking as a MFH, I would want to know. Of course this puts the delicate process on our shoulders to resolve as diplomatically as possible. Oh well, I guess that's why we get the big bucks!

You know, I don't envy MFH's one bit. I see what goes on and I just don't know how y'all keep from going insane. You have to be part Patton, Mr. Rogers, Dr. Spock, Captain Kirk, Churchill, be able to outride everybody, have to smile and nod when you want to strangle someone, the list goes on.

Nope - don't envy any of y'all. I appreciate what you do, and admire the dedication, but Lord have mercy - the work involved is just incredible.

[Mudroom]

You know, I don't envy MFH's one bit. .....You have to be part Patton, Mr. Rogers, Dr. Spock, Captain Kirk, Churchill,

I think you left out Mom and Nanny

Oh well, there is only one thing that is certain: There will be somebody who is unhappy with the outcome.

[Rt66Kix]

OK, y'all have just voiced a big fear of mine. Buddy, my QH, is the type of guy that is calm and steady, and would let another horse use him as a stopping device.

However, I have spent YEARS and tons of MONEY getting him sound again. Most of his issues were body ones, and the chiro has said that finally he's structurally good to go.

If anyone plows into him because they have no brakes, I will be LIVID. I've done too much rehab in the barn on him to make him into that.

Do I put a red ribbon in his tail, even though he's a saint? I don't need his back screwed up again from someone's else's ineptitude.

[Jaegermonster]

OK, y'all have just voiced a big fear of mine. Buddy, my QH, is the type of guy that is calm and steady, and would let another horse use him as a stopping device.

However, I have spent YEARS and tons of MONEY getting him sound again. Most of his issues were body ones, and the chiro has said that finally he's structurally good to go.

If anyone plows into him because they have no brakes, I will be LIVID. I've done too much rehab in the barn on him to make him into that.

Do I put a red ribbon in his tail, even though he's a saint? I don't need his back screwed up again from someone's else's ineptitude.


I would definitely put a red ribbon in his tail. And I would also make a point of finding out where the folks are in the group that you want to stay away from (on a daily basis) and be sure to avoid them.

I sometimes put a green ribbon in my filly's tail, because I don't want her scared or upset while she is learning, but I still look for the folks to stay away from and then do it.

edited to add that even though she is a homebred and my baby (I delivered her) I really need to stop calling her my filly, she is almost 5!!
what is it my mom says: I don't care how big you get you will always be my baby :)

[SteeleRdr]

a bit off topic

Jaeger- don't worry about calling your girl "filly." The broodmare we have at the farm is 10 this year and we call her "the filly," mostly due to her being born and raised on the farm. She's already had one foal, and on her second...we really should start calling her by her real name, but it's so hard!

[sycee]

I have to say that I am always hesitant to put a red ribbon in the tail of a horse that doesn't actually need it. Too often I'm riding horses for sale that a red ribbon would not be a plus in any case.
I am forever asking people if they would like to go ahead of me. It's much easier to deal with the accident you see happening than the one that sneaks up on you.
I agree with mentioning incidents to the MFH.
Good Luck!

[2ndyrgal]

When you were mentioning MFH having to be "den mothers" et al, you left out that they must not only have deep pockets, they need to have full, deep pockets! Nope, don't envy anyone the diplomacy they must practice. And if the OP is REALLY lucky, the overfaced rider in question is either a landowner or a huge financial contributor to the hunts coffers. There's an uncomfortable scenario. It's a big field, just mind where he is and be where he's not. I did get a smile out of the "lady" ahem, trainer, and her latest victim. It's usually the other way 'round.

[Jaegermonster]

I have to say that I am always hesitant to put a red ribbon in the tail of a horse that doesn't actually need it. Too often I'm riding horses for sale that a red ribbon would not be a plus in any case.
I am forever asking people if they would like to go ahead of me. It's much easier to deal with the accident you see happening than the one that sneaks up on you.
I agree with mentioning incidents to the MFH.
Good Luck!


I agree on all counts. I would rather try to avoid someone else's wreck than extricate myself from it.

and thanks SteelRdr :)

[Huntin'Fool]

Hey, thanks to all for the good advice. I guess I will try to keep "the Pilotless One" ahead of me-sigh. My horse is definately not one of those who tolerates people plowing into him, riding off at jumps etc. He's never kicked but gets all bent, whirls out of the way etc.-not what you want at a fence. Now the horse I had before this one would ride *anyone* off-I sort of wish I could have him back for just one hunt;-).
Everyone has been in the situation of having a horse do something bad in the hunt field or just making a pilot error one's self. Re: this man it's that he does it *constantly* and just doesn't seem to catch on that it's unsafe and not appreciated.
OK, end of whine. I will mention it to the Master I'm the closest to, ride defensively, wait for this horse to scare the guy badly enough that he sells it, and finally hope that the trainer finds someone she wants to..shall I say date.. that has an appropriate horse for sale and gets the guy to purchase it.
And re: the Master's job-God bless them!!!!! We have *great* masters at our hunt and I truly admire all of them. See you in the field, Huntin'Fool.

[Painted Wings]

I have many thoughts on this:

1. Definitely report any dangerous incidents to the MFH(s). In our hunt they are either field master or whips and they don't see most of what goes on in the field. It is important to report dangerous or improper behaviour for everyone's welfare.

2. For those that are hunting a green horse or with a new hunt; I always put a red ribbon in a horse's tail the first few times out hunting. Even if your horse has never kicked before, hunting often brings out personality traits you've not seen before and kicking is one of them. Two reasons for the red ribbon, keep people off your tail, and keep people off your tail in case your horse does get excited in the crowd or of a hound running by and kick.

3. I agree with those that say let this guy get ahead of you. This is true expecially if you are on a green horse. Well, if you are on a green horse you should be in the back anyway.

4. My biggest pet peeve are those that go to the back during a check because their horse wont' stand, They make little circles in the back of the field. Then as soon as you are on a run they go flying past. I hate it!

5. If I see someone doing something dangerous in the field, I don't hesitate to tell them. I'm amazed at how some people can't even tell that their horse has just kicked at a hound. They need to be told so that they can turn their horses head to the hound when the hound comes by or discipline their horse. We have one old field hunter in the field. He was the master's horse for many years. Now that he has a new owner and is in the back he tends to kick when he gets tired. Sometimes with just one back foot. The rider is unaware and needs to be told immediately. This is a very unsafe situation. I usually say something to the person directly and then report the incident to one of the masters.

And as far as being a backstop. My own mother-in-law who had a 17H QH often expected me to provide a backstop for her when I was on a 14.3H paint mare. She would often hollar for me to get in front of her and then slow down. Hard to pass a 17H QH with a 14.3 hand horse but I did it on a few occaisions.

[xeroxchick]

...here is a lesson on the Foxhunter Secret Code. If someone looks back at you with an arched brow and says "Would you like to pass?" it is Not A Compliment.

[2ndyrgal]

And I, heaven help me, have seen that look. Except for the time that myself and a bunch of the 'old guard" got lost, at a fixture I'd never seen about my third or fourth time out. But...and there is a but, I was riding the "besthunthorseonthefaceoftheearth", sooo.... I got to help us find our way home.

[J Swan]

...here is a lesson on the Foxhunter Secret Code. If someone looks back at you with an arched brow and says "Would you like to pass?" it is Not A Compliment.

:lol:

That's a good one. I don't think it's been directed at me though I have used it on others - but with a smile, not an arched brow. But have no fear - God will get back at me when I bring Bam Bam out next season. So I'm going to be super super nice so that I incur as much good karma as possible.

[xeroxchick]

Oh, I learned about that one the hard way, believe me. I started hunting on a rank bulldozer of an Ap that I bought for 500$ who started as a runaway. Lots of chomping and jigging, but on a mad run he was as agile and smart as a mountain goat. How would you like that behind you? No, not me either. I'm sure my hair was flying everywhere too.

//////Shudder////////

After a couple or four years started to notice "The Code" and now, after a dozen more years, I use it only for self preservation. Okay, yes, I admit that a couple of us will exchange a look and in that situation it is a group decision because what do you do with Certain Folks?

[wateryglen]

OK, what to say to "Certain Folks"?......oh...and I'm pretty sure I don't wanna hunt near a horse named Bam-Bam!! ;) Own him yes!! :D But I digress......try to deliver these with a straight face.....

Try the empathetic approach....."Oh he looks like he's a handful today!"
or...."Is he new to hunting?!"......"I like how you're handling him today; we all know how hard it can be".

Try humor......"Don't tell me...his name is Bam-Bam!!?":lol: "My goodness! Look at all that energy!"

Try being nosey...."Have you hunted him much?"....."I've noticed your horse; what breed is he?"......"I noticed the bit you're using today; does it work well? Do you like it?"

The one thing it does is tell the person you've noticed....unfortunately Certain Folks are usually too dense to realize that being noticed is a BAD thing!! ;):lol::lol::lol:
Sometimes, just sometimes, the person has actually been struggling & suffering miserably and isn't having fun and will open up a lot when someone notices and this often explains how they've come to this. This helps you understand how they're dealing with their difficulties.

[J Swan]

Bam Bam is a nice horse - but he's 3 years old and if he doesn't stop flinging water buckets in the air and banging them around - he ain't gonna make it to 4.

(It's John - the black draft cross. Bam. Bam Bam. Bam Bam Bam) Where ever he is - that's what you hear.

AKA No John. Knock it off, John. Hey You. etc....

He sounds like a herd of elephants, too. I expect to be riding in the front of the field by default when he starts hunting.

[xeroxchick]

Let me see. I have to be very, um careful how I word this. Sometimes when **some** people have guests, and that guest is up late imbibing, the help puts them on a draft cross (thick neck and jaw) with only a ***snaffle***in said mount's mouth. Funny to the help, but not to the rest of us! I actually lost it one day on a big run when Draft Cross Guest was in my back pocket in a 400 acre field. Terifying thought if I had bobbled - guest would surely have ploughed into me causing unknown damage. My primal growl made him go back to the trailers!! Big faux-pas on my part, but I am still alive. Yes, should have tried the "My, he's a handful today!" Would have been much more diplomatic! I think I might memorize those alternatives!!

[edc]

was what was suggested to me while capping for the first time on a green (to hunting) TB that began to have issues. I took it to heart since it was obvious to all that neither he nor I were ready for the new experience.

[J Swan]

Let me see. I have to be very, um careful how I word this. Sometimes when **some** people have guests, and that guest is up late imbibing, the help puts them on a draft cross (thick neck and jaw) with only a ***snaffle***in said mount's mouth. Funny to the help, but not to the rest of us! I actually lost it one day on a big run when Draft Cross Guest was in my back pocket in a 400 acre field. Terifying thought if I had bobbled - guest would surely have ploughed into me causing unknown damage. My primal growl made him go back to the trailers!! Big faux-pas on my part, but I am still alive. Yes, should have tried the "My, he's a handful today!" Would have been much more diplomatic! I think I might memorize those alternatives!!

:lol: That's a great story!

[armandh]

without the chain.

[x-rab]

Before I went skydiving off my hunter at a full gallop without a parachute on Labor Day, we were chatting with a lady (former master of her own hunt) who had a red ribbon on her horse's tail to keep other people from running up on and into her horse. Her horse doesn't kick, but she had problems with unguided missles in the past and thought the red ribbon was the easiest way to avoid most problem.s

[REINRIDER]

First off, I'm not tryin' to PO a bunch of folks here. I'm just looking at it from another point of view. I'll probably get blistered for this and maybe I should zip up now...but....
newbies or not, sometimes, a direct but polite comment might be best. I don't always think it's because the person is "dense". I've only been foxhunting for the last 8 or 9 years (whipped in a few) and the last 4 of those have been EXTREMELY limited so I still consider myself relatively new in the sport. I don't claim to know all the intricacies and unspoken rules. I worry all the time about making these kinds of mistakes. I try my best to go out and do the best I can but I'm sure I make my fair share of faux paus. I know others, too, who do the same. It is not always that the person is dense. It is possible that with so MANY different things to learn and worry about, that it may take some people longer to put it all together, in a manner of speaking. I have seen also, that some people have been so excited to experience the thrill of the hunt and the comraderie, that they sometimes mistake the veiled comments of the code. Who knows, I think back now and wonder if I was ever the recipient of any of those looks or comments. I hope not. I guess I'm too niave sometimes, though. I usually always look for the best in people and hope that others do the same without assuming the worst. Basically, my philosophy is this...if I'm doing something wrong, it's not on purpose. If I'm doing something wrong, be honest and polite and please tell me. Don't hint around and always expect the other person to understand the "look" or you polite innuendo. Feelings may get hurt but you get over those. Other injuries sometimes take longer. Not being honest and to the point has been the cause of many communication issues both in the hunt field and off.

Sorry for the rambling but that's just MHO.


sizzle sizzle.....LOL:D

[Beverley]

Reinrider, you make a valid point. I think many of us have in mind 'habitual offenders' when we make our comments, people who simply fail to process that the patient and repetitive explanations about not tailgating and etc. might just apply to them.

I will say that on one occasion, I was hunting as a guest, a member of that hunt did ask me as we were leaving the meet, if she could park behind my horse, because she 'had' had tailgating problems, was trying a new bit, but didn't want to go crashing into anyone whose horse might become upset. I said fine, and that I would certainly let her know if 'my' horse was becoming upset. As it turns out, her new brakes worked fine- but she did the right thing in asking a specific person to be her safety net.

Which makes me think of a point for 'everyone' to keep in mind- if you invite guests, of 'any' level of foxhunting experience, you are expected to be ready to assist them at any time throughout the day. Don't leave them to fend for themselves, and don't spoil others' day of hunting by expecting them to deal with your guest's problems.

[J Swan]

I think you have an excellent point - and to be frank - the "attitude" has made be think seriously about quitting and returning to eventing. So much so that it was touch and go - I'm giving it one last shot. (I ride to hunt - I can hunt with dogs on foot too - and not have to deal with all the hunt nazis.)

I'm new to the sport too - only 5 seasons. Horse never did much except jig or not stand at checks - which time and some management changes fixed. (thanks to some great suggestions from the folks on this BB!)

There has to be a balance between correcting the mistakes that newcomers make - and going overboard and driving people away. One way might be to insist that all green horses (even those ridden by members with colors) - stay in the back. Another might be for an experienced member mentor a newcomer - rather than 50 people yelling different instructions at the newcomer. Cuz that ain't the way to make a person relax.

If the rider becomes more and more tense or worried about offending various people - the horse becomes more tense. It's basically setting the person up for failure.

If a horse is truly unsuitable - it's something the Master must deal with. For a lot of folks - foxhunting may be the first time they've really galloped in the open, in company. It's a different world than the one many of us grew up with. We can either adapt and encourage folks to hunt safely - or risk driving away new members - which are the future of the sport.

[REINRIDER]

and I thought I had rambled too much to be understood! Jswan, you got it! That' s what I was trying to get out! :lol:

Beverly: Yes, I agree the habitual offenders are problems. I did catch that in some of the earlier posts.

JSwan, fortunately I have encountered more of the friendlier, genuinely nice people in my hunt experience but I have to say that there have been times where the "attitudes" of the hunt nazis came across loud and clear. These are certainly ones (and it only takes a few) who can really drive people off. I'm just a litttle ol country bumpkin coming from trail / western / bareback riding to foxhunting and I hesitated to give it a try initially because of the stereotype the sport has. You know, snobby hoity toities, ect ect. I was happily surprised and hooked when I found out how much fun it is and that the vast majority of the people are very nice regardless of where they're from or how much their rig costs! :lol:

I guess what I dislike the most are the one's who are so sweet to someone's face then pour on the catty, snide comments no sooner than their backs are turned while trying to drag others into it. :mad:

[J Swan]

and I thought I had rambled too much to be understood! Jswan, you got it! That' s what I was trying to get out! :lol:

Beverly: Yes, I agree the habitual offenders are problems. I did catch that in some of the earlier posts.

JSwan, fortunately I have encountered more of the friendlier, genuinely nice people in my hunt experience but I have to say that there have been times where the "attitudes" of the hunt nazis came across loud and clear. These are certainly ones (and it only takes a few) who can really drive people off. I'm just a litttle ol country bumpkin coming from trail / western / bareback riding to foxhunting and I hesitated to give it a try initially because of the stereotype the sport has. You know, snobby hoity toities, ect ect. I was happily surprised and hooked when I found out how much fun it is and that the vast majority of the people are very nice regardless of where they're from or how much their rig costs! :lol:

I guess what I dislike the most are the one's who are so sweet to someone's face then pour on the catty, snide comments no sooner than their backs are turned while trying to drag others into it. :mad:


Yeah - clubs are kinda like that. I think it's a "club" thing - not a foxhunting thing. No matter how old we get - seems like we are still in high school. You got your jocks, your geeks, your weirdos, chess club, academic types - except now we're on horses.

I find it helps to have a full flask at the start of the day, and an empty one at the end. ;)

[flash1]

We used to have a guy like that in our hunt ....he was a disaster...we used to take bets on how long it would take before he fell off ( usually in the first 10 minutes...) He had an annoying way of galloping up right behind my horse and literally bumping into us..Did not make my guy very happy...although he never kicked or anything...it spooked him a few times. He would also bring his friends ( equally as bad).It finally got so bad...that the decision was made to politely ask him not to come back.

[Huntin'Fool]

Hey, I do *absolutely* agree that a kind word to someone or their sponsor who just may not know is the way to go. I did this once and the person really just didn't know-she is a lovely and valued member of our hunt now. Even if you read all there is to read about hunting before you go out it's really just so much *stuff* and you're so excited and well, y'all know what I mean. For a really good look into starting out read "Fox in the Cupbord" by Jane Somebody-great read.

AND I agree that being a Hunt Meanie is a great way to run folk off. We had one of those too-ironically of course all the rules did *not* apply to her and her equally rude daughter and she did indeed make folk not want to come back-not our goal!!!!

For the truly dense, well I just don't know. The guy I wrote about has been hunting for 14 years and I just don't see him improving. I truly think I'll hold my whip out (Like stiff arm at a dangle) if he starts to barge up against us-I really haven't gotten over missing that great run last year because his horse stepped on my horses heel.

The other thing I think-about myself-is that just because I enjoy riding in the field master's pocket doesn't mean her horse has my name tattooed on his butt. I can ride near the rear and give someone else a chance to be in the front too.

I'm excited about the start of fox huntin'!!!! Huntin'Fool

[Camstock]

Since I am a trainer and instructor, I walk a fine line with horses who are having inept rider problems. I always want to help, but don't want to impose unsolicited help on the riders. It requires discipline to not rush in and "fix" every problem I can, but I've come to recognize that it is not my place and can be unwelcome where not invited. If a problem of an habitually dangerous rider shows itself, I will meet with them privately after the hunt, offer a beverage and just start a conversation about the horse:

"Hey, fun hunt today. Want a beer? He certainly is (some positive comment about anything, even if it has to be "a lovely color"). Where did you get him?"

Usually, they will launch into that story and then segue to the current difficulties eventually. It takes some patience to get there, but everybody loves talking about their own horses and own kids and usually can't stop themselves. Human nature. After hearing the story, we'll exchange some pleasantries and I bid adieu. IF THEY ASK my opinion as to how to improve the situation, I will share it. If they do not ask (everyone in the hunt knows I am a foxhunting trainer and instructor), I chalk it up to "not ready to hear it yet" "or not wanting to hear it from me" and remember it for future reference and deftly avoid them in the hunt field, so that I am not inclined to comment or be affected negatively by it. Some people don't know. Some people choose not to know. They are vastly different ways of being. Just show me which one you are and I will act accordingly.

As for green horses, which I am often introducing to hunting, I put in a green ribbon, which means "green horse, expect anything please" and I stay to the back. The one I am introducing this season does everything well except standing. Yes, at the check, we are in the back doing tiny circles. (Which is work while you get to rest and chat, so please be kind with your thoughts.) No, when the field starts we don't go racing by everyone, we stay in the back. Not standing is nervousness, not being able to monitor speed is not necessarily related to that flaw.

[goats4sale]

We have a rider in our field that rides a bucking horse. It not only bucks but throws its back legs out as it is bucking. I have tried to talk to this person about it and all she can say is he is not an idiot and he doesn't kick out. Hummm I ride behind her at a good distance and see the bottom of his back hooves....Hummm wonder what that could be.... It is just plain dangerous whatever you want to call it!